Caitlin
Appearances
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And he drove it to Hood River, allegedly to visit his wife and child. But he was also visiting friends. And one of those friends was ex-con Roy Light.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
It was like 94 degrees the other day. That was wild. And I only have like sweaters right now that are out. Look at like I'm wearing up my grandma sweater right now.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Mm hmm. I love that their pieces all seem pretty timeless. I would say it's like elevated basics that you can grab something that you know you're going to wear for a while. You can build it in a lot of your outfits like my the sweater I'm wearing right now. I can wear stuff under it and wear stuff over it. And it's all really good quality, which I love.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
On Tuesday, December 9th, the local newspaper, The Oregonian, runs a front-page story, quote, Mountain Searched for Family. And people begin calling in all sorts of tips, saying they saw cars or people that look like the Martins. But all of these sightings turn out to be dead ends. So officers continue trying to determine exactly where the Martins traveled to and what time they left.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
The following week, hundreds of people searched for the family in Oregon and Washington. One newspaper estimated that the number of people searching included law enforcement officers, forest servicemen, friends, relatives, and other volunteers. And it was well over 1,000 people. No valuable clues are found at all. It's really like they just vanished into thin air at that point.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Then on December 16th, Charlotte Dorsey announces a $500 reward. She gets more contributions from friends and the reward is increased to $1,000. That's in 1958. That's a decent amount of money today. Missing posters with the reward are displayed everywhere. And that same day, Detective Graven is investigating the Martins' son, Donald.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
He visits Donald's former workplace, the department store Meyer and Frank in downtown Portland.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And that's got to be a decent amount of money today. That's like almost $30,000 today. That's a lot. It's a lot.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
I have friends that have stolen from their jobs and it's always just like food on their break. Like, I just can't imagine stealing a gun from your workplace. Yeah.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
He was forthcoming with the information that he was gay. So... It seems like there was maybe a little bit of acceptance within himself, which makes it even more devastating that his family was so not on board with it.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Cleaned it! Even though it's a bloody gun that looks like it was used to bludgeon someone. I know this case. I just got chills with that. It looked like it had been jammed. It's hard to think it's just a coincidence. Everything we think we know about this case is wrong.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
I would be really curious if we have any listeners with military experience or maybe that are... married to people with military experience, what that bereavement leave is. I have family members who are in the military and we had a death in the family that they were able to come back for. But who knows if it extends to missing.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
I think the thing with Donald is that it's a bunch of little things that kind of add up together because there's like another thing about him where he had a mutual friend with Lester Price. So there is a connection of him and one of the ex-cons. And that was this guy named Wayne. And Wayne had worked with Donald at Meyer and Frank around the time that Donald was arrested.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
There's a lot of string that starts going up to Donald.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
I agree. So on December 28th, news reports start coming out on an ex-convict's abandoned car and the potential connection to the disappearance of the Martin family. So the car is presented as, quote, the most valuable clue in the Martin case yet by Oregonian reporter Jerry Pratt, who interviewed a local sheriff.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And the sheriff didn't name the ex-con connected with the car, but he said that he'd been in Oregon State Penitentiary for forging a check. And he said that the ex-con was also a hobbyist photographer who may have seen Ken Martin's 8mm film cameras. And these details aren't super important, but they seemed like they might have been at the time.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So on the next day, December 29th, the newspaper publicly names both ex-cons and it shows the mugshot of a man named Lester Price. So the investigation turns to focus on those ex-cons, Lester Price and Roy Light, the abandoned Chevy and various theories about foul play. Did the ex-cons make the Martins disappear? Did someone hire them to kill the family?
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And around this time, witnesses in Los Angeles claim they saw Lester Price in town through December 9th, so he couldn't have been in Oregon to cross paths with the Martin family on December 7th. And there's more information about what happened to Roy and Lester, but they were ultimately forgotten as suspects in this case.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
But before we move on, there's one really important note that I want to make. And that's that Roy Light allegedly carjacked someone by hiding in the backseat under a blanket and surprising them. And if that was his M.O., it seems like it could have been something that happened to the Martin family as well. Hiding in the backseat and then the family comes in and you're able to carjack them.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
I think it was a woman that he carjacked. I can't remember the specific details, but he got in trouble with the law a lot throughout his life. So there were probably other times that he ran into sheriffs. So at some point in either late December or early January, we get our next major clue. Tire tracks.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Tire tracks are discovered by a Portland man named Donald D. Bain, who had been involved in searching for the family. He was familiar with the area and he spent a lot of time roaming the shoreline of the Columbia River.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So the fact that they outright dismissed this is a little wild to me because it's not really the type of place where a car would casually go off the road. Again, even if they didn't think it was the Martin family, the fact that they didn't feel the need to investigate why a car would have gone off the road into a river at that point is a little beyond is just beyond me. But it was.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And I was like, I can't. It kills me how expensive everything is. I think that's why. So we like semi eloped, my husband and I. You got married in like two months. Yeah, we got engaged and we got married two months later. And part of it was we just didn't want to have to labor over any decision makings.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
The bluff was located behind the aluminum plant. It was not really off the side of the road. Cars wouldn't have been driving back there. And when Bain looked down into the bluff past the tire tracks, he saw cream-colored paint scrapings on the rocks.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So the fact that a car went over the edge there felt pretty intentional.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
I also wouldn't necessarily recommend a two month window because there's a lot you cannot do in two months.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah, that they had the science to do it.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
It was a little crazy. Like finding a dress was probably the hardest part, but we did it. We had a great weekend and we didn't have to labor over any decisions, which was like the best part of the whole thing. That's really nice. Like I don't feel for, I don't envy being in the position of having to like Look at all the different tents and all the different flower options.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah, full visibility. You could see everything that was going on.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Right. Because if it one of the times that they maybe left the snack bar was 530. Yeah. Winter sun's going down. Maybe it was really dark out. Yeah. And they somehow but doesn't seem like it.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Well, one more thing to know about this aluminum plant before we get back to the timeline is a person tied to this case who worked at that very same plant. And that was Roy Light. So we talk about someone needing to know the area very intimately in order to
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Get to that spot and have a car go off. And Roy Light would have been that person.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So in January of 1959, Detective Graven goes back to the Paradise Snack Bar and he questions the owner, Charles Maynard Cody. And Cody tells him that the two ex-cons, Lester Price and Roy Light, were seen in the restaurant around the same time as the Martins and left around the same time.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Detective Graven also speaks with a man named Clifford Slim Bennett, who runs a nearby brothel in Dallas, Port Washington. And Slim says that Lester and Roy visited the brothel multiple times between December 7th and December 10th. And if you remember, one of the ex-con's friends said that they didn't leave California until like December 10th.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So clearly they were seen in the area starting the 7th.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah, exactly. And after the 10th, they don't go back to the brothel. So he doesn't know where they went. And so Detective Graven starts to think that the car was pushed into the river, perhaps by the ex-cons. But that brings us to our next clue, the big one.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah, that's interesting context.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah. So with this specific kind of gun, if you obstructed it from being fired at all, the shell would just kind of like stay in the chamber and explode. And so that's what it looked like. It had been jammed. Like maybe someone got in a fight and covered the gun. And when it went off, the shell just stayed in the gun.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
blood dried blood it kills me every time because it's like same with the tire tracks they're like oh this doesn't fit into the martin family disappearance i guess it's just not evidence even though it's a bloody gun that looks like it was used to bludgeon someone like well maybe the other person that got bludgeoned needs help and we should still like investigate this a little bit also even just keep it and put it as like catalog it as hey found this random gun it's got blood on it like i know you give it back to someone who it doesn't belong to them what
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Oh, my house is full of boxes. We just moved. We're like finally in L.A. The biggest thing is my dog is just so confused as to where we are because we have the furniture like he recognizes the smells of all of our furniture, but he has no idea like where he is. They adapt quickly. He's smart, too. He's smarter than my husband and I, so he'll be fine.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah. And I get that they didn't have DNA evidence back then, so, like, they wouldn't need to preserve the blood at all, but it's just always so funny when they just, like, here, I washed the gun you found for you, and, like, you can have it back.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
They had fingerprinting, though.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah. I mean, we did get a really important piece of evidence from it, which was the serial number. Like, at least they did check that. So we were able to see that it was Donald's.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Because if we had it today, maybe we would be able to test the DNA evidence and see whose blood it was.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah, I mean, I think Wayne is an interesting character here because we know that he was the connective tissue between Donald and Lester. Yeah.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah, he probably does think he's smarter than you. Yeah, he does. And he is. He's not wrong. But do you want to jump into today's case?
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
price so one of the ex-cons so it just makes wayne look a little involved in all of this and as a side note when i was initially doing the research on this case for heart starts pounding i did find that there were a lot of rumors about wayne's involvement with the martin family disappearance particularly there was one rumor going around at the time that people still talk about today that wayne was involved romantically with barbie and
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
That's maybe a light way of putting it because Barbie was a minor. She was 14. So I couldn't find credible sources to back up that claim. But Wayne would stay at the Martins a lot. He would stay with the family.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah, was Wayne the one that actually stole the gun and got pinned on Donald? Yeah.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
I actually had never thought about that. Yeah, maybe Ken pulled the gun, tried to shoot one of the ex-cons, they grabbed it, bullet gets stuck, and then he rips it out of his hand and kind of like bludgeons him with it.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yes, definitely. I'm curious what everyone thinks. And there there was a lot of these like little clues popping up, but there wasn't much movement in the case. And not until May 2nd, 1959, when there was a tragic discovery. So young fisherman Ellery Colby saw two bodies floating downstream near Thunder Island headed towards Bonneville Dam. And that's in the Columbia River.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And then the bodies started to drift apart. So the following day, May 3rd, just before noon, a captain of the RW Confer tugboat discovers something in the Columbia River while he's working near the Crown Zellerbach Corporation paper factory. And at first, the captain thinks it's just debris mixed in with logs. But then he sees that it's actually a small body covered in grimy clothing.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And the captain immediately calls the sheriff and the coroner. And another man who works on the boat drags the body to shore. The sheriff recognizes the girl's clothing as matching the Martin family daughters, but it's surprising that the body is found so far from where the family was thought to have traveled.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So the body's brought to Hamilton's funeral parlor in Vancouver, Washington, and Charlotte Dorsey's husband, that's Ken's sister, her husband Herschel, goes to identify the body, but the girl's face is no longer recognizable to him because of the damage and deterioration, though the rest of her body is fairly well preserved.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Let's do it. All right. So before we get into the timeline, though, do you kind of want to go over who the Martin family was?
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And the body's eventually moved to the Multnomah County coroner's office and frozen before an autopsy takes place. And during this time, the body is identified officially by dental records as the youngest Martin, Susan. And people speculate that Susan was maybe not wearing a seatbelt. So if the car sank in... Say like a window or a door popped open because they were in the river.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Maybe she did float out. The Ford didn't come with seatbelts and the Martins installed them, which we mentioned. And on the next day, May 4th, as the discovery of Susan's body hit the news and reignited interest in the case, the second body was found.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Around 11.15 in the morning, a man named Clarence Haight saw a body floating in the river about 25 miles from where the sister, Susan, was found on the Oregon side. So it was found kind of near the Washington-Oregon border by this Bonneville Dam. And Clarence is an electrician who worked for the U.S.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Army engineers, and he was checking equipment on gantry cranes when he spotted the body among debris and trash. And the body was lifted out of the water by a crane. Same thing. They see it's a girl. She has jeans, a sweatshirt, a white shirt. She even has an M&M wrapper in the pocket of her jeans, which I thought was just a really sad detail.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And dental records do determine that this is Virginia Martin, Jenny, the middle daughter. The location of this body once again makes authorities wonder where exactly the Martin car went into the water. Because it now seems likely that it actually went in near Cascade Locks. Remember, Cascade Locks is where the car was pulled over. They were talking to people outside of the car, the two guys.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And that is just upriver from the dam. So if it went in there, it makes sense that the bodies maybe floated out and then went down to the dam.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
The day before the bodies were first seen floating down the river, there was an oil boat on the river that dropped this big anchor and they hit something. And when they hit it, they even felt like it was a car. They couldn't see it. Yeah, they said like steel or something. It was steel, but they get their anchor down again because they actually want to pull it out of the water.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So they attach onto whatever it is and they start pulling it out. But right before it gets to the surface where they can see what it is, it dislodges and falls. And so maybe in that process, they hit a window. And that also just timed with the girls floating out. So it seems likely that the day before they did actually hit the car.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So in the weeks that followed, the area of Cascade Locks and the Bonneville Dam, which they're about five miles apart along the Columbia River, It's repeatedly searched by boats and cars and helicopters. The water is dragged and searched with grappling hooks. No trace of the Martin family is found. They do not find the car. On May 23rd, there's a memorial service for Susan in Virginia.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Donald does not attend this. He later claimed that he mixed up the date and actually didn't mean to miss it. Which, yeah. He didn't help in the search either. And then to not come.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So. I mean, some people, it's just the hurt is so much they can't even imagine. Yeah. Like they just can't do it.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yes, absolutely. The girls are eventually cremated and. Donald does not claim their remains. No one claims their remains for 10 years. They just sit in the funeral home until 1969 when an unnamed relative or family friend, we know that it was not Donald, collects them and buries them alongside their paternal grandmother.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
There's just so much going on with him throughout the entire investigation.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Exactly. So on June 3rd, Donald finally arrives in Portland from New York, having missed months of searching and the memorial for his sisters. But he is there. He does arrive promptly on time to settle his family's estate. And when you do the conversion in today's cash, it's nearly $400,000.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Absolutely. It's completely life changing money. So Donald starts cooperating with the investigation when he's asked to. He answers calls from detectives. And in December, he meets with Detective Graven while he's in Portland. But he other than that doesn't really go out of his way to help. Remember, some of his family members are still missing at this point.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
He stays in town for about a week, and during his meeting with Detective Graven, he reportedly says, quote, I know of no one who would murder my folks or no reason for it, but I don't see how it could have been an accident. So he also doesn't think it's an accident.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Exactly. So this case basically goes cold by the end of 1959. At that point, most people just believed it was a tragic accident, but the rumors and the legends of this case still remained. Detective Graven continued to pursue all of these theories because he was convinced that there was foul play. And the case of the missing family would go on to haunt him for the rest of his life.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
The fact that he couldn't solve this really tortured him. In one of his notebooks, he wrote that the case, quote, will be solved if I live long enough for the car and the bodies to be found. And in another entry in that notebook, he seems to directly express who he thinks did it, but crosses the name out. There's a spot in the notebook where he wrote out in black pen, had to be planned by blank.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
No one else with motive. And then the blank is just scribbled out. So years later, someone actually went into Photoshop to see if they could restore the word that was written under his scribbled black ink. And they were able to retrieve a name. And it did say Donald.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
In another file from Graven, a copy of a letter he sent to another officer was there, and he wrote, quote, I also want to call your attention that Donald Martin is the sole beneficiary to the Martin estate insurance, etc., and that the whole family would have to die to make this so. Because if dad dies, it goes to mom.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
If mom dies and you're no contact with your son, maybe it just goes to the girls. Also, at the time, Donald Martin was caught stealing from Meyer and Frank Coe. He gave as his excuse that he was a homosexual. And he gave as his excuse for being one that his mom was a fat slob and his father wasn't much better. And stated he was afraid that the girls would be just like them.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
This shows that he did not like his family.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Right. How does he organize it? I mean, maybe they do it the same weekend every year. Maybe he knows like the first Saturday of December. That's when my parents go get all their greens for Christmas. But I agree. At the time, it's hard for me to wrap my mind around how people made plans in the 50s, but they did.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And so I don't know exactly how he would have orchestrated all of this, but it seems like he would have been able to, I think.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah, I agree. I agree. Donald doesn't necessarily have a clear alibi either, but he was stationed in New York while he was on active duty in the Navy. So it would have been hard for him to have been the person to physically do it. But I regardless, I don't think he was one to physically do it.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
I think there are some people online who believe that, you know, maybe he actually just flew back and did it himself. But I just don't think there's any way that he would have been able to do that.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
It was. It was the day after they disappeared. There was a car idling outside of their house at 7 in the morning. But also, Ken had an important... I actually just thought about this. He had a meeting at 8 a.m. So maybe the car was coming to get him for the day. You never know. I don't know. It's so strange. You never know.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And you know, he could have done that long distance call because if in his mind he knows that he's about to inherit... Thousands of dollars, like $300, $100 to make a long distance call doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Right. Detective Graven retired in 1966. He kept all of his case files about the Martins, which his family preserved for him later on. And he did pass away in 1988. So in the years that follow, Donald did marry a woman named Helen and he moved to Hawaii. He goes on to have four kids and he teaches at a high school. And Donald did pass away in 2004.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
He was a suspect in the investigation but was never charged with anything. And that leads us to today, where there's actually been a pretty big update in this case. A crazy update that happened just a few months ago. So in February of this year, 2025, Amateur Investigator slash...
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Professional sculptor slash diver Archer Mayo pinpointed where the Martin family's car disappeared and he led a mission to find it. And Archer notified authorities that he found the place in the Columbia River where the Martin car sank and it was near Cascade Locks, which is where it was estimated that they went in.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And so Mayo takes a video of the car during a dive, and he shows that it matches the type of Ford the family drove. And he also films the license plate. On March 6th, law enforcement arranged for a crew to start pulling the car out of the river, and a barge with a crane attached begins the process of uncovering the vehicle. It's ultimately a two-day process.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
On March 7th, pieces of the car are finally removed from the water out of the Columbia River near Cascade Locks Marine Park in Oregon. So portions of the car, including the chassis, rear axle and engine, were pulled out of the water, but the cabin of the car separated from the rest and it remained stuck underwater. No human remains were found in the car, and it's now undergoing forensic analysis.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And for context, this location is about 20 miles west of the cafe where a waitress saw the Martins before they disappeared. So it would fit the theory that they were headed home towards Portland when their car went off a cliff into the water. Okay.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Well, was that an area where cars went off the cliff accidentally into the locks?
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Or was it a known dumping area?
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
What do you think happened? What is the theory you keep going back to?
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Was trying to rob them. It escalated because there was a gun in the vehicle. They did something and then dumped the car.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah. So why wouldn't Donald have said that? Well, when I stole the gun, my family kept the gun in the car because he goes on to say that it was probably Wayne that stole the gun.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
I know. Absolutely. It does seem like Archer, the diver that found the car, thinks it was an accident, a total accident. He went on. So he made like this five minute YouTube video explaining how he found the car, like all the models he built in his house to figure out exactly where the car went in.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And he is really staunchly like everything we think we know about this case is wrong and everything that Detective Graven wrote in his notebook is wrong. And so he alludes to the fact that it was probably an accident in the area that it was in. I think the locks were really close to the road. And so maybe they could have swerved off.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
But he also says that he's writing a book about it. And if you want to know what he really thinks, you have to buy the book. Read the book.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Like make a YouTube video like the rest of us. I just want to know.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
The thing that – so this is always what I like to ask the audience too is like what is the one piece you keep going back to when you try to like explain – when you try to walk through the other theories, what is the one piece that you can't explain away? And for me, it's the gun.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Why was Donald's gun there? But was it Donald's? The only thing that makes me not hung up on that is what you brought up that maybe they just had it in the car. In the glove box.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
No, it would have had to have been coordinated. Like maybe Wayne went over and got it and it would have had to be like really planned out. So I don't know. I'm curious what the audience thinks with the piece that they keep going back to to be like, it had to have been this person or it had to have been the ex-cons or Donald or Wayne. Yeah.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
I do feel like a case like this would have been solved immediately today.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
We had the blood. We had the gun. We had the...
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Slashes the seatbelt and breaks it. Yeah.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And that's the lesson we learned in today's episode. Always have one of those tools ready.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So even though we're not completely sure what happened, we're going to close this case file for now. I'm really curious to see how this story is going to continue to unfold. And if there's any new developments on this case, we will talk about it on our Instagram at Clues Podcast.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
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Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
We'll be back next week with another new case on Clues. Bye, guys.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Got it. And I actually did read it was common for families at the time to have that big age gap between kids because Donald was 28 and then the girls were all in their early teens. And that was because Donald was born around the Great Depression. And so they had to wait till their family could financially recover and then they had more children.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And these aren't just ordinary cases. They're complex puzzles where forensic science, investigative techniques, and sheer grit collide in order to uncover the truth and deliver justice. I'm Kayla Moore, and I'll be piecing together the timelines and bringing the history to break down the hard facts of these cases.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yes. Very important. So now that we know a little bit about who the Martin family was, let's talk about the day of the disappearance, which was Sunday, December 7th, 1958. So for those of you who are watching, you'll see a map of these points. But if you're listening, you can find the photos on our social media. That's at Clues Podcast on Instagram.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So let's let's break down the day of the disappearance. At 1030 a.m., the morning before the Martins leave for their ill-fated trip, the Evans family stops by with their children. The Evans are actually second cousins of Barbara Martin, and the families would often spend time together there.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
They invited the Martins to have dinner together that evening, the night of December 7th, but Barbara declines. She says that she's going on a day trip to collect Christmas greenery. Barbara doesn't really specify where they're going to drive to, though. She just says that they're going up the highway, and that usually means driving out to the Columbia River Gorge on Highway 30.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So around 1 to 2 p.m., the precise time has kind of been debated. But around that time, the family leaves their Portland home in their cream and red 1954 Ford station wagon. About an hour after leaving, they stop for gas at Dean's Chevron service station in the small city of Cascade Locks. Around three to four, the Martins stop at a cafe called the Paradise Snack Bar in Hood River.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And that's about 20 miles from Cascade Locks. They're just continuing down the road. A waitress comes forward as a witness later on and confirms that she did see the family eating a meal here. And then they left about an hour after they had their meal and they started heading back towards Portland. And that brings us to our very first clue.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah, it was pretty empty in the place.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Yeah, those are all very different times of day. Yeah. Which, yeah, really matters in an investigation like this.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Right. And so one thing that was super interesting about December 7th is there was a tip that was reported directly to the FBI saying,
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
There were two women, Kelsey and Doris Knutson, some say Knutson, were out for a sightseeing drive on December 7th when they noticed that there was a light-colored station wagon heading west towards Portland from around the area of the Paradise Snack Bar at about 4.30 p.m. A lot of reason to believe that that was the Martin family.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Each week on Clues, we'll explore how the smallest pieces of evidence, like a microscopic fiber, a partial fingerprint, or even a single strand of hair, could lead to groundbreaking discoveries and could even bring long-awaited justice. These clues shine a light on stories that have been waiting, sometimes for years. decades, like the one we're going to talk about today, to finally be heard.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And the station wagon caught their eye because it was traveling at a very fast speed, like abnormally fast. And about 20 minutes later, Kelsey and Doris passed an area called Trotter's Point that was near Cascade Locks. And they saw that that same station wagon was pulled over to the side of the road. So it had passed them and then it had pulled over.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And reportedly, they saw two people in the front seat very close together. It's not really clear from this part of the report if the two people were Ken and Barbara or if it was just other people. And they didn't know if there were kids in the back seat, but they did say that there were two people in the front sitting very close together.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And later that night, the Knudsen's were driving and a car with bright headlights pulled up behind them. And eventually, after repeatedly refusing to pass, they said that the car sped off ahead of them. And a few minutes later, when the Knudsen's arrived at Cascade Locks, they saw the station wagon pulled over to the side of the road under a bridge.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And they reported that there were two young men standing outside of their car talking to the people inside of the station wagon. And that's the last time the Knutson saw the car. There were reports from the same time where people had also seen the two cars together.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
In one report, a truck driver remembered seeing the two cars and he remembered seeing an abandoned white Chevy parked on Trotters Point the following day. And so let's talk about the following day, because there was a lot going on back in Portland on Monday, December 8th as well.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So that morning at around 740 in the morning, Ken Martin's boss, Taylor Eccles, noticed that Ken's service truck wasn't parked up front. And Ken was a very punctual guy. And around the same time that morning, the teachers at Rose City School marked Susan and Virginia absent from their fifth and seventh grade classrooms.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Their mother hadn't called to give notice that they would be out, which was pretty unusual for the family. And so that's when Ken's sister, Charlotte Dorsey, who's a second grade teacher at the school, starts to become worried that her nieces are absent without any explanation. So Charlotte called the Martin home. No answer.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
Next, Charlotte calls Ulysses S. Grant High School, where Barbie is a student, and she discovers that she also hasn't come to her ninth grade class that day. So Charlotte decided to wait until the evening to fully panic because she wants to talk to her husband first and she wants to try to call the Martins' eldest son, Donald, to see if he knows anything.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
But at some point during the day, Taylor Eccles' wife tells a mutual friend, Mrs. Edward Lenz, that the Martins are missing. And the Lenz's and the Martins' are pretty close friends and they both belong to the Trails Club of Oregon. Mrs. Lenz is really alarmed at this, and she begins asking the Martins' neighbors if anyone knows where they are.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And when she can't find any explanation, she decides to call the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. That night, around 9.30 p.m., Officer Fred Rodenight picks up Mrs. Lenz's call, and he learns that Ken and the Martin family are missing after their trip to Larch Mountain, where they said they were going to get Christmas greenery.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And the officer takes down this information, and then he notifies the deputy sheriff, Ard Pratt. Ard sends three cars out to the Larch Mountain area near the Columbia River Gorge, and another officer's car is sent to the Martin home. And around that time, Ken's sister, Charlotte Dorsey, also calls to report the family missing.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
So join us as we uncover breakthroughs, the heartbreak and the relentless pursuit of answers behind these unforgettable investigations. Now, you may not have heard of the Martin family disappearance, but they were a picture perfect family on a holiday outing until they disappeared without a trace.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
About an hour and a half after all of that, so 11 p.m., officers Cutshall and Johnson arrive at the Martin home and they search the grounds. But the house looks dark and totally empty. Neighbors approach to see what's going on and explain that the Martins would never leave town overnight without telling someone. This is incredibly strange behavior for them.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And the officers learn that Ken's sister, Charlotte, lives nearby. So a neighbor calls her and she comes over with her husband to let the officers into the home. And inside the house, it becomes evident that the family was not planning to be gone for very long. There's still dirty dishes in the sink. There's ground beef that's set out on the counter and it's thawing for dinner.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And so that is strange enough in itself. But the thing that really makes this weird is around the same time as the police are going through the Martins' home, several witnesses report seeing an abandoned white 1951 Chevrolet near the highway eight miles east of Cascade Locks.
Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
MISSING: The Martin Family
And this car, when the police finally go look at it and they run the plates and they try to figure out whose car it is, it's connected to an ex-convict, Lester Kenneth Price. which maybe you remember hearing that name just a little bit ago. I told you guys to remember those names. He either borrowed or stole this car from a friend in Los Angeles. It's a little unclear how he got it.
CreepCast
Best of Creep Cast 2024
I think we took him out like once, but yeah, he ended up dying there.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
Hi, I'm Caitlin. I'm 29 years old, and I wanted to ask you how to deal with my monster-in-law that lives next door.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
So to give some background, me and my husband have been together since we were in high school. So we're high school sweethearts. I've known her for a long time. She's always been kind of difficult to deal with, and things kind of blew up over the holidays. It was December 23rd. Me and her had an argument. There was a lot of family in town.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
And he had family that moved here last year from a different country that was staying with my in-laws. And we just didn't like the treatment of them. Obviously... with them living next door, we were kind of picking up a lot of the slack and kind of helping them. We were driving them around and stuff like that to different appointments, just helping his cousins out that had just moved here.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
And things got messy in their home quick at my in-laws house with these new cousins. And so that's how the argument on the 23rd started was about the treatment of these cousins. And there's been several things, but it ended up being my mother-in-law at one point said something like, well, I'm not taking advice from someone that doesn't even come over here. And so that's when I blew up.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
Yes. So they moved here from a different country and they were living with my in-laws.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
So the rules that they were setting on them, I mean, it gets messy quick when you live with people But like they couldn't park in the driveway and they have a four car driveway. So my mother-in-law and father-in-law were purposely parking back to back so that his cousins couldn't park there.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
And so it kind of caused an issue with like them parking in front of our mailbox because they couldn't park in the driveway. And I had no fault to like them because they're really good people. But it was causing issues with us and my in-laws.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
why how is that causing issues just the treatment of them it's like we had to pick up the slack so they didn't have a car so we were driving them around to appointments so that's what the argument started about but then it turned into more of the treatment of myself and my kids and i feel like our kids get treated different than some of the other grandkids.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
So that's where it, that's the direction that it went in after she said that I don't come over to her home. And then it was kind of like, well, these are the reasons why I don't come over. And so it went off in that direction.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
I mean, the treatment towards me has been since I've known her. And it's not just me. It's a lot of people in the family.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
That's just how she is, my mother-in-law. But that's been going on since I've known her. And I kind of just swept it under the rug. I would complain to my husband about it and never say anything to her about it. So she didn't know I felt this way about her. And then I noticed... that she was taking some of the other grandkids out more, buying them all these toys.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
There was like different rules in her home for different grandkids. And so I noticed the treatment of not just my kids, but all the other grandkids, except for these two other grandkids.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
So right now we're not speaking. I've only seen her twice since Christmas Eve. And I guess my thing is like I've just come to terms with like she's not going to change. But I don't know what to do in the future. Like when my kids want to go over there because right now it's cold outside. So like when it warms up and they're in the backyard, my daughter will say, I want to go over to Nana's.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
So I'm expecting that to happen, but I'm not really sure like how to move forward. I actually reached out to her on the 26th. So the day after Christmas, I sent her a message. And said, we need to sit down and talk. Didn't receive a response. Sent another one the following day. Also didn't receive a response. And then about a week or so went by.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
And I received this huge message from her saying that I'm manipulative. I'm a selfish person. Is that exactly what it said? And she said not to respond.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
Okay, so on December 26th, I sent her, Hello, at some point we need to talk to work out our differences because we will be in each other's lives and the kids' lives. However, in the meantime, I don't think it's right to take your anger out from me on the children. They're just kids, and they have nothing to do with the drama. When my daughter tried to hug you at Christmas, you ignored her.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
Then you gave, I don't want to say their names, my three nieces the same dresses and not my daughter. I don't mind if you have a problem with me, but please don't do things to hurt my kids because you're mad at me. It's not right, and it's not fair to them, and it only furthers the idea that you favor me. My niece is over my daughter. Let us know when you're available.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
And then I messaged her again the next day. Hello again. We need to schedule some time to sit down and have a conversation about this situation in the past when we have arguments that never gets resolved and we move on and act like nothing happened. That is not healthy and it just adds more resentment. Okay, so this is the next day, December 27th. Says, hello again.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
We need to schedule some time to sit down and have a conversation about the situation. In the past when we have arguments, it never gets resolved and we move on and act like nothing happened. This is not healthy and just adds more resentment. Over the years, you have treated me poorly and I let it go and did not express my feelings. Now that it involves my children, I cannot let it continue.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
If you're going to ignore the situation and we are not going to talk about it, then for my mental health, I have to move on. I cry every weekend because of the treatment you have towards me and my kids. I cannot be the best mom to them if I'm upset. I want you and my kids to have a good relationship. I want you and your son to have a good relationship. I want to have a good relationship with you.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
That's why I'm trying to fix this and work these issues out. I want to know what I've done to you. I'm always nice to you. I always hold things in instead of saying them to you. If it can't be a healthy relationship, then it is easier to end it. Then allow my kids to be treated like that going forward. It is not right for my daughter to ask me why you're not there.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
I have to lie to her and tell her you are working. She's old enough to notice those things. These are not just one incident. This has been going on for years. There are several incidents. I think you have trauma that you've never dealt with, and I feel bad for that. I know people who are hurting on the inside hurt others. I want to work this out. When are you available to talk?
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
So that was one thing I brought up on Christmas Eve, which had nothing to do. I was so heated in the moment. And I was like, you guys have never helped us. When he lost his job two years ago, like we had to get mortgage assistance and stuff. And the only person that helped was my dad. And there was a time when before we even had kids that they offered to pay our mortgage as like a gift.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
And that was years ago. So that had nothing to do with what I had brought up, but she brought it up to counter that. So that's what she's talking about. There was a lot of things said that I shouldn't have said, had nothing to do with the argument, but I just got so mad that I brought up several things.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
So I think I missed some of the context with the argument and like to begin with. So I came upstairs. I'm notorious for watching the kids at the party. I sit there and watch my own kids. So I end up watching everyone's kids. I come upstairs and my husband and mother-in-law are already in this conversation. And then he brings me into it and says, Hey, Caitlin, what's your opinion?
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
And that's how it kind of got started. And then I was like, well, you guys invited them here, you know, And she like immediately cut me off after that. And that's when she's like, no. Gotcha.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
They're not old enough yet. Okay. Our kids are, my daughter's almost five and our son's two.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
Going forward, if she does anything else. I guess I don't know how to react. Like if I see that something's happening that I don't like, that involves my kids.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
Some of it, yes. There's some things that like she, if she has watched them, which we don't let her watch them much anymore or at all.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
if she watches them like she completely doesn't follow our rules doesn't put them down for nap doesn't put them to bedtime when we ask her to has given them stuff they're not supposed to have yeah so don't let her watch them so things like that yeah that's simple yeah you know and like obviously she might not be okay with that but you can say like listen like you know and where does your husband come into this play like does he get involved does he let you two
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
But I think I do more of the caregiving, so I'm the one that's going to deal with them when they're cranky the next morning.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
Yeah. I mean, he's getting better. He's gone. pretty often with his job. So a lot of it falls on me already. So, but he knows that.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
He hasn't been talking to them either. I've seen her twice since Christmas. I saw her at a baby shower for a second and then saw her outside briefly, but that's when it's going to get sticky during the summer.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
Yeah. Yeah. We live next door. If I could move, I would move. but we can't afford to move, but it's going to get sticky during the summer because my kids will be in the backyard every day and they will see their grandparents over there with other kids. And I know my daughter's going to say, Hey, can we go to Nana's? And I don't want to say no, because she knows nothing about this.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
I guess I just don't like I would have to go with her. I don't trust her to walk like when the kids are over there. She really doesn't help out with them. And from what I've seen when she's watching other kids there, she just puts them in front of the screen and then doesn't monitor what they're doing. So I just don't trust her. So I'd have to go in with her.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
And then I just feel like that's going to be awkward with what's going on.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
A lot of what I do, I work with kids in foster care. So I deal with a lot of people that have trauma.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
Yeah, that's a good point. I wouldn't react well.
The Viall Files
E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History
Yeah. I didn't think about it that way.
Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me!
HTDE: Don't Get in the Fridge, with Jesse Eisenberg
This is true. I was closer than Carl. You were closer than Carl. And we know someone who guessed three. Yeah. I was much closer than her.
Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me!
HTDE: Don't Get in the Fridge, with Jesse Eisenberg
Yeah. I think we were all a little low except you. Except me. In my perfection.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Can we hear from Caitlin? Hi, this is Caitlin. Please, can we talk about sleeping with our romantic partner? I've been with my boyfriend for two years. To date, I have never been able to successfully sleep in the same bed as him. Our sleeping habits are different. He's a heavy sleeper. I'm a light sleeper. He's smart. I don't.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
The sound of a bird will wake me up, and he could sleep through hurricanes. I feel the weight of expectation to just do the thing, be unconscious on the same piece of furniture for a whole eight hours, and I cannot do it. It's causing deep anxiety, stress, and humiliation and shame in my 30-something life. He sees this as an act of love and connection.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
The harder I try to sleep in the same bed to meet his need, the more unlikely it is that I sleep. So I want to know, whoever decided that this was a thing, and do you have any advice for me?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Let's hear it.