Alex Wagner
Appearances
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And, you know, it's a Biden problem that is, you know, now landing on our doorstep. But they're about to install someone at HHS who has like zero capacity to deal with any kind of national health crisis and, in fact, could make it meaningfully worse. I'm surprised that at no point, because they had a lot of gimmies on this one. They could have taken a mulligan and just been like, you know what?
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
they're going full steam ahead with someone who could make one of, I think, really a practical economic problem for them considerably more problematic. So that, to me, more than the, you know, spinelessness of Senate Republicans, I thought was surprising.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I thought there's actually a vested interest they have in, you know, installing someone vaguely competent at HHS, but they're not going to do that, I guess.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I was doing this show called The Circus, which I know you're quite familiar with, seeing as you did several seasons. And I remember John Heilman and I went out to see Susan Collins. right before her vote on Brett Kavanaugh. And she was so angry at the threats and the left-wing sort of cabal coming after her on the issue of abortion. And she was just defiant.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And it was clear she was going to vote for Kavanaugh. And I thought, you know what? This is like, the only thing you're known for is like trying to protect a woman's right to choose. And you are going to, you are going to like let the fox into the hen house. And look what happened, Tim.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Look what happened. That for me is the moment where I was like, oh, these guys truly don't care about anything other than staying in the good graces of the party and staying in power. And there have been so many times since then where they've proven their spinelessness and proven their...
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
you know, allegiance to the loudest voice, most powerful voice in the room rather than the, oh, I don't know, the constitution. So yeah, if you had told me, this is a long windup to use a baseball term.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
If you had told me on November 6th, these clowns would be the people installed, I think I would have believed you because it just comes down to whether the Senate Republicans have any ounce of integrity left. And I think they've proven to us that they don't.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Well, the Merrick Garland thing. I mean, once you say we're going to change the rules to benefit ourselves and like we're going to adulterate the institutions in a naked power grab, like then, OK, fine. Like he basically drew a blueprint that everybody's been working off of in the intervening years.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Turns out you got got. Turns out the Federalist Society is too mainstream. The goalposts can move out of the stadium. See, this is a football metaphor. I'm not quite as good at it. The goalposts can move out of the stadium and down the block into a different zip code. Nobody thought about that, did they? No. Mitch McConnell sure didn't.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I stopped reading after that. I saw that and I was like, okay, no, we're done.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And beach. Yeah. I mean, I think it's like the deepest, darkest part of masculine insecurity that we're seeing on center stage.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Well, I mean, I guess. It's like the dark part of it. I don't think that it's the strong part of masculine. I mean, first of all, I guess. I guess we have to put this in kind of obvious gender tropes. The return of the white guys. I think it is at Democrats' peril that they ignore the yearn for traditionalism, which seems to be a huge part of MAGA.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I mean, this is like my question. It's like, can you imagine, by the way, can you imagine the crowd sizes debate litigated in Trump 2.0? I mean, I feel like you have that clip.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I don't think that means a capitulation to it, but there is something shifting. There's something going on socioculturally. I don't mean to quote Barack Obama, but here I go quoting Barack Obama. The idea that America should be for the waking and not just the woke. I think there's something there about a greater tolerance for not the retrograde and not the diminishing, but
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
something that seems more on its face traditional. I don't know how to say this in a way that is not controversial.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I want to podcast. But I do think that we have to examine what's happening here and why people elected Donald Trump who ran on the, like, I'm the daddy who's going to spank you. That is not to say Democrats need to be daddies who spank people, but why is that happening? What is the platform of the left missing in terms of
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
its inclusivity or its messaging or its policy that is like opening up this space for this insanely ass backwards version of like the American family and American gender roles. Like why, why is this happening? What is going so wrong that this is the snapback that we get?
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I mean, I don't disagree with you. I guess I wonder, does that look that different than what Tim Walz tried to do? Do you feel like it was too overt? Because I think the media narrative is one thing, but just as a practical matter of strategy, I feel like it was like, he's a football guy, and he loves his wife, and he likes Kamala Harris, and he's going to roll with her and be her vice president.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
It wasn't like, I am explicitly beta. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
You think it was just trying too hard.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I mean, can I just say the difference between then and now is it was just stupid Sam Spicer embarrassing himself, you know, like becoming a national parody. And now there's actual retribution. The idea that the AP is not being allowed in, is being punished for adhering to reality. It's not good, Tim. Very George Orwell. All of this.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Yeah. I mean, I see what you're saying. Like, make it, like, do it, but make it less obvious. Just do it in a more natural, less forced, less, like, kind of like... you're making a thesis argument for a different kind of masculinity to the American public rather just like behave, show them do.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Wait, the right saying that I don't think being nice.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Yeah, I mean, so maybe what you're suggesting is a tougher edge with the same expansive ideas about gender. Like an ass-kicking version of a beta cuck. I'm kidding. Like...
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And there's kicking someone in the nuts. Can we do all... I mean, it's... Listen. But can I just say part of it is not about politics. It's just kind of where we are as a society and we're trying to fucking grapple our way through the darkness. It's complicated. It's complicated. It's really hard. And I got to say, like...
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
People who have been marginalized for a long time and are just getting heard and seen are like, yeah, fuck you. I'm not going back into the darkness. And the people who are on the downslope, which is to say or feel like they're on the downslope or becoming less powerful in society are like, yeah, fuck that. No way. I like my seat just fine. Thank you so much.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And we're in a very intense hinge point, I think, as a society and as a country. And we have it worse than most because we're a really diverse, cacophonous democracy. So this is where we're at, regardless of partisan affiliation.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Oh my god, I have no control over my schedule. I'm actually in the field. I'm at the protest.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I'm talking to the fired IGs. I'm talking to the federal workers. I'm with the Jan Sixers outside the jail.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Can I just say, it is so hard. It's so worth it. And I felt like we needed to do something different. Like Trump 2.0. Yeah. There are people doing great work at MSNBC HQ. I don't mean to diminish that at all. But I just felt like given my background doing the field reporting, it was like, dude, I just want to go out and understand what's happening to this country a little bit better.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And so in that way, it's been really worthwhile.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I think just talking to the people who are at the center of all of this stuff, whether it's the January 6th families or Chris Rufo or migrants who are being targeted in raids and federal workers who are like, I don't know what I'm going to do tomorrow, whether I have a job or not. I think that it has cultivated a sense of, I always try and
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
work from an empathetic center, but I do think that I am... I feel the chaos and pain more acutely, and I think that that's good for all of us who can get, as consumers and journalists, who can get real desensitized to this. It's very abstract in a lot of ways, and it's ongoing. It's a fire hose of... you know, hell and so, and chaos.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And so this helps really distill, like, I think it's really important to hear individual stories and that's been like profoundly enlightening for me. But in terms of like, like a hot take that I wouldn't have had, um, I got to say, and I think it's probably more on the Trump side that I've had the revelation.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
This guy, I think, has refashioned American politics and expectations that are set for presidents. I don't agree with almost a single thing he's ever done, let alone in this second term. But he has delivered in a huge way. And the people who believed him when they voted for him feel so vindicated.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And it is both a cautionary tale, but also for a Democrat who comes into office, the expectation I think can and should be, you better work your ass off ASAP. And I don't think that it should be in contravention of the law or in terms of shattering norms and institutions, but get her done. Trump is going ham. And his folks really believe in him, but even more so now than ever.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And they believe they're on the path of the righteous.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
What's next? I mean, what's next? Like when you talk about Trump, President Trump, you have to now by law say the greatest president in American history. When you when you print the words President Trump, I mean, like sky's the limit, right? It's a fact.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I get a little pessimistic, a lot pessimistic after I'm out for a long time just because I'm seeing this stuff, right? Like I'm talking to the moms who are like telling their kids before they go to school, if I don't come home or if I'm not here, this is where you go because I might've been deported, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Like, and as a mom, as a person in the world, like, can you imagine having that conversation with your kid? Like, who's like, you know, a little American kid going to second grade and it's like, what do you mean if you don't come home ever? So that's right, like wrenching. But then I also look at the national narrative around this.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I don't see Democrats defending anybody defending these people who are part of the backbone of the American economy. And it makes me wonder whether if we hit bottom, anybody's going to notice. Because, man, when you hear these stories and see what's happening out there, it's like... wait, this feels a lot like end times.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Aren't we supposed to be bouncing back and realizing that we've erred and that this is all wrong? And then you get polling that it's like, oh no, a vast majority, a significant majority of the country is okay with all of this. I think it's great. And it, I think, suggests that we have become a remarkably desensitized
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
really uncurious country that like doesn't bother giving a shit about anyone who's not us. And that makes me wonder whether hitting bottom for real, for real is actually the way out of this. All right.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Well, the Doge purge is like purge by keyword. It's like, is there anything in the resume that has the words DEI in it? Regardless of whether you work on DEI. Like, for example, these guys who went to a training. It's so wanton and haphazard. And I think that's twofold. One, I think that the haziness of all of this...
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
the lack of standards for who's placed on leave and who isn't gives them ample opportunity to take out people of color or women or people who just are not going to be seen as friendly to a Trump administration agenda. And then for everybody who's not a woman or a person of color or whatever... it just instills fear and makes them all the more likely to say, you know what?
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I do not need to live like this. I'm taking the buyout. I'm out of here. And it also, I think, fulfills, it ticks the box that Russell Vogt outlined, which is they want to traumatize federal workers. They see them as the bleeding heart libs. The USAID stuff is so vengeful and so personal. They want to punish this group of people who believe in civil service.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Listen, from your mouth to Trump's ears, I do not think this is the end of this. If he can win at renaming large bodies of water... Just on a whim? What's to stop him from calling it the United States of Trump? I mean, I kid, but I do think this sets an unbelievably bad precedent.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
So the chaos and the confusion in all of this is a multi-pronged assault on specific communities, the body of the federal government on whole, and the institution of civic service. So it's very useful in that way. It's incredibly craven.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
It's turned into a spoon.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I mean, it's like, I think we, it's like the numbers are a little fuzzy, but that's like almost 4% and their target was 5 to 10%. So it's not nothing.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Most of the people I talked to weren't. They'd been advised by their unions, don't do it. We can't guarantee that you're, first of all, Congress hasn't appropriated any of these funds. Like who knows what this offer is? Like it could just be a waste.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
There's an ongoing battle about it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Like you each get a car. Right. And a timeshare in Florida and a salary forever. Maybe they'll make good on it. I don't know. But I also just don't think it's over. They're not done. They're not done gutting the government. That's like 4% of the government that said, yeah, I'll raise my hand for this potentially bogus offer. But then they're going to also just fire people. So it ain't over.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
So I will say the inspectors general are not a bunch of like... liberal party animals, right? Like they're very circumspect. They're very by the book. One of them who I talked to, Michael Missal, was the inspector general for the VA, where there's like, you know, it's a sprawling bureaucracy and you definitely want the hands on the captain's wheel in terms of waste, fraud, and abuse.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
There's like a number, I feel like there's constantly stories of scandals unfolding at the VA having to do with waste, fraud, and abuse. And he is actually part of a group of several inspectors general who this week have decided to sue the administration for wrongful termination because there's a very clear playbook or set of protocols by which you can fire an inspector general.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And Trump, of course, didn't follow it. So I do think while they may not have... the sharpest language and not have the most revelatory ideas about why they were fired and the mendacity of this administration, they're not going quietly into the night.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I mean, they are going to fight back in the, I think the most buttoned up, you know, lawful way possible, but they're raising their hands and legally and saying, you can't do this to us. That's resistance. The resistance as we see is all in the courts, Tim. And I think there's the good and the bad, right? Some of the courts are going to be great.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
If we get to the Supreme Court, I think Trump has a real shot of getting a lot of what he wants, if not everything he wants. So, I mean, the other part of the resistance is the American public. And I do think it's been distressing to see the lack of engagement on any of these topics that should fire up the American citizenry.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Very, very, very limp. I mean, I think that the legal front, first of all, they've been ready for this, you know, before the, even the election, these legal groups, they knew what was coming and they were prepared in the state AGs hats off to them. They've been tenacious and very fast and, But the courts are the courts. And we are talking about politics here.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And I talked to Chris Ruffo yesterday, the architect of a lot of Trump's anti-woke agenda. And he's like, we got the public is with us 100%. And until and unless there is real public disfavor and a sense that the public isn't with them, then maybe they're right.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I don't believe that they are because I fundamentally don't believe that the values that are being reflected in this administration are in sync with where the country that I know is at. But I mean, where is everyone? I think people feel demoralized and beaten down and confused and just overwhelmed.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
But I also don't think that's an excuse because this is the country and it's all moving fast, but that's exactly why people need to get involved if they have an issue with it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I mean, I guess there's like a certain like, you know, Chekhovian, like there's like a very, Chris Hayes and I were talking about this yesterday. There's like a very Russian kind of like dark humor embedded in all of this, right? Like it's so absurd. The theater is so absurd, but it's real. I mean, like the consequences are real and as absurd as this all seems, um,
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I would say also like the more cases that the Supreme Court is really good at nibbling around the edges and a number of things in each of its opinions, right? Like the affirmative action case, you know, with Harvard and admissions, you know, that's the jurisprudence they're working off of to do all this DEI stuff, right? Like there's precedent set in all of these rulings.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Honestly, regardless of whether they're favorable or not favorable, Clarence Thomas opens the door to maybe rescinding gay marriage and throwing that out the window, too. You don't want to have to get the whole Trump agenda in front of the 6-3 majority on the Supreme Court. That's not a great long-term play, to your point. And like public outcry matters.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
It really pissed Trump off that there was a women's march the day after his inauguration. It really did. And maybe, I mean, I don't know how that, you know, informed the decisions he made in the weeks thereafter. But I do think the public saying this isn't us, you can't do this in our name is really meaningful. And it helps. I think the machinery of democracy requires that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
It doesn't have to be just a generalized march. There are really specific things and specific groups of peoples and institutions that could be at the center of any and every protest. And I think that that would have a maybe more meaningful impact in Trump 2.0 than just, you know, kind of a march on the mall.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Like, when I was outside the Treasury Department, it was like, it wasn't huge, but it was like a thousand people. And it felt like, okay, this is... this is both a protest and a rally, right? This is in a meaningful inflection point for the Democrats and the citizens who are watching this and are not okay with it. And there needs, I think, to be more of that and should be targeted.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And there should be specific demands, like you cannot do this thing. Generalized resistance may not be that effective this time around, but man, he's given a lot of explicit examples to push up against.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
This is what's happening to our country.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
You've been out here holding vigil. Who do you, who do you have inside?
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
What happened with your son and daughter? Yes. What exactly? What are they in for? They're in for about everything. We looked up the exact charges, and just about everything isn't a bad description. Jonathan faced 17 counts and multiple alleged felonies, including assaulting officers with a dangerous weapon. In Jonathan's case, that meant charging at police with a flagpole.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Do you think now that he's pardoned everybody, he can count on this group of people again?
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Woof. I mean, I also, you know, to our earlier point, I'm like, where are the Democrats? The asymmetry of the passion is, like, these folks, they feel like, you know, the sun has finally come out. And they've been, you know, like, I cannot tell you the amount of, like, the joy, the celebration, the feeling that, like, everything was right in the world again. I mean, and I will say Trump...
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Half the people I talked to had gotten personal phone calls from Trump. They had been invited to Mar-a-Lago. He does constituent outreach, Tim, in a big way.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Fogel. Mark Fogel. Yeah, Fogel.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Well, and his people are with him, which is why it's like you got to hear from these people because it's like the other side has got to hear that and like scrape itself off the floor and get back into the ballgame. This guy's saying he died for Donald Trump. Now, I'm not suggesting that people need to die for Chuck Schumer or whatever, but man, can you show up to a protest or do something?
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I don't know. The asymmetry is staggering.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
A million? I don't know. It's been how many weeks of the Trump administration?
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I have till the end of April, whatever day it is.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I do. Oh, my God. You, me, and purple drink. That perp.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Yeah, I'll be scraping myself off the floor then, buddy. All right.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
As a matter of satire and comedy, they're firing on all cylinders. We couldn't have conjured this nonsense, as you say, even nine years ago. They're very creative in that sense.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I mean, we live in Trumpland. It's just the reality of the situation. I hate to break it to everybody. It may not be forever, but that's where we're at.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I don't know which to tackle first, Tim. The grift... Do you remember when it was like, oh, he might be building a Trump Tower in Abu Dhabi? Nobody even bothers to disguise it. And I do think, unlike Trump, people like the con man in Trump. I feel like that's why in some ways he was elected, because he cuts corners and does his own shit. People do not feel the same way about Elon Musk.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And Elon Musk standing there in the Oval Office with his child as a prop... And pretending that he's president and tinkering around in payroll systems and using his teen dream doge crew to gut the federal government, I do not think that that passes by without the American public understanding. without it ruffling their feathers. And I say that as someone who spent some time in D.C.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
last week in front of the Treasury Department where there was a large protest. And there was no talk about Trump. It was all focused on Elon Musk. And I do think that the Trump glow does not extend to anybody else. I do not think it extends to Elon Musk. And I think Democrats and people who are just upset about what's happened here are finding a new narrative and he's at the center.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Elon Musk is at the center of it. And I think this kind of stuff, there's a reason they changed the wording to not mention Tesla's. I do think the Trump White House understands that Musk could be a problem for them.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And I think if Democrats are smart, they will keep Musk at the center of all of this because he is just a poster child for the corruption, the grift, the sort of lawlessness, the entitlement, the greed, the, you know, sort of
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Well, there is a fine calculation between how much the word Trump in any given title is an attractant or a repellent.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
No, they always want to be richer. I mean, I think that's the thing about really rich people is sky's the limit. Can I also say the guy that nails this and the guy who is the id of MAGA is Steve Bannon. And he gets that Musk is a, I mean, we've talked about this. He's a problem. He's not a true believer. He's, I mean, he's in it for Elon and the glory attendant. Yeah. Okay.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Do you want to talk about why you can have electric vehicles on the battlefield?
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Wait, can I just say, Tim? Like, an electric vehicle on the battlefield is, like, the definition of wokeism. Like, this is the thing that PNX has been hired to, like, pull out root and branch.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
So I do think, though, I mean, we're looking at Trump land not just through the lens of Trump, but the people also affected by Trumpism and his policies and promises. So it's not just about the dude. In fact, I would say it's a lot less about the dude and more about the sort of broader contours of the country he is creating.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
The whole thing. None of it. Musk... He embodies the contradictions here. It doesn't make any sense.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
No, also like Elon doesn't have it. Like, I just think that people need to get back to the essence of, like, this guy is a profoundly lame character. And that is—in Trump High School, which is a place we all live in now and attend, like, he is not the popular dude. That's Donald Trump. He's the captain of the football team.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And Elon Musk is some weird person that has entered the sort of inner sanctum but does not have— he is not going to win any popularity contests. And the longer this goes on and the more Elon is placed front and center, I truly think the bigger a problem it is for the Trump administration.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Let's not insult baseball. I'm thinking chess team. I mean, chess is also cool. You can be captain of any team, but that doesn't give you, you know, you don't get to make announcements on the intercom.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I'm part of a very big baseball family.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
You're treading on. This is not comfortable for me.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I mean, baseball is an amazing sport. I'm not going to say that I'm, yeah, I mean, listen, we'll just agree to disagree.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I mean, this is the genius of the strategy. The fact that there's an intra-Bulwark debate, which is probably an intra-Canadian debate and an intra-Chinese debate. I guarantee you, Xi Jinping has a couple of advisors who are like, well, it's not all bullshit. But I agree with you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I don't know that it's going to be as spectacular as what he's announced it to be, but I absolutely think... He does not like the headlines that say he whiffed it or he pulled back or this is just... And he doesn't give a shit about the consequences, right? I mean, he loves finding an enemy, especially a foreign one. So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we actually see some real tariffs.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
We're waiting for reality to intervene and it's been quite shy. Yeah. Reality has not raised her hand in the Trump Oval Office. It's a stunning thing.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Please, go. It's your podcast.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
I'm a terrible guest. I am a terrible guest, but I'm telling you that now that I'm already booked and we've started this.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
You know, I'm surprised because yesterday the White House released a statement on eggs.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
And they are clearly worried about what bird flu is doing to egg prices and dairy prices. The Trumpflation thing, the groceries thing, the shit he ran on and got elected for to bring costs down is a concern to them. I mean, I don't know if you've tried to buy eggs. We're a big egg house here, Tim. They're very hard to get.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Okay, well, that's your loss.
The Bulwark Podcast
Alex Wagner: The Poster Child for Corruption and Grift
Well, they're hard to get and they're really expensive, like everywhere across the country. This is a problem for the Trump administration on a practical, a really practical level. And they're about to install someone who seems categorically, I mean, part of the statement that the White House released yesterday is we inherited this problem with bird flu.
The Dan Bongino Show
President Trump Did More In A Day Than Others Did In Two Terms (Ep. 2406)
Wizard. Ever any moment in jail where you were like, why am I here? Did you ever have any frustration with President Trump? Did you ever feel like, you know, he had landed you guys in jail?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Joy Reid Finally Fired, Bongino Joins Trump Admin, and Possible Russia-Ukraine Peace Deal, with Victor Davis Hanson | Ep. 1012
J.D. Vance lecturing everybody on what a family means, what it means to be a man. Donald Trump obviously has his own version of manhood. To see Tim Walz out there as a man who is just joyfully embracing his role, talking about struggles with infertility, it takes two partners to get pregnant. And for way too long, this conversation has been relegated to women or the carriers of pregnancy.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Joy Reid Finally Fired, Bongino Joins Trump Admin, and Possible Russia-Ukraine Peace Deal, with Victor Davis Hanson | Ep. 1012
But I do think there were some sort of Easter eggs of white nationalism in the speech. One of the long sort of a paragraph, at least, about this plot in eastern Kentucky where his seven or six generations of his family are buried. And his hope is that his wife and he are eventually laid to rest there and their kids follow them. The white male lineage that Trump's.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Joy Reid Finally Fired, Bongino Joins Trump Admin, and Possible Russia-Ukraine Peace Deal, with Victor Davis Hanson | Ep. 1012
that defines the family history, that that branch of the tree supersedes all else. And I just think the construction of this notion reveals a lot about someone who fundamentally believes in the supremacy of whiteness and masculinity. And it's couched in a sort of halcyon, you know, revisitation of his roots, but it is actually really revealing about what he thinks matters. I...
The Megyn Kelly Show
Joy Reid Finally Fired, Bongino Joins Trump Admin, and Possible Russia-Ukraine Peace Deal, with Victor Davis Hanson | Ep. 1012
Tonight, the FBI warrant used to search Mar-a-Lago is unsealed. The three potential crimes laid out in that document. We'll dive into what it means and what could happen with one of the Wall Street Journal reporters who was first to report on the contents of that warrant. Then we'll... She's panicking.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Joy Reid Finally Fired, Bongino Joins Trump Admin, and Possible Russia-Ukraine Peace Deal, with Victor Davis Hanson | Ep. 1012
Then we'll talk with... We're going to go right... We are actually going to go right to the top story.