Bruce Vilanch is best known for his time as the head writer of the Oscars, but he is actually a vestige of a fabled era of show business. Bruce talks with Marc about how he went from being a child actor to working at newspapers to writing jokes for Bette Midler. His skill at writing in other people’s voices led him to countless jobs as a joke-writer-for-hire, doing punch up for famous comedians like Lily Tomlin, George Carlin, Joan Rivers and others, as well as for many beloved and detested TV variety shows. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Chapter 1: Who is Bruce Vilanch?
Now I'm going to go with pensive and thoughtful, which at times can feel like depression, depending on what you're being pensive and thoughtful about. But everything just sort of changes and slows down. And the air feels heavy. The weight of the atmosphere kind of feels heavy. But I like it. There's a poetry to it all. And I'm going to go out and sit in New Mexico and feel that.
Be pensive and thoughtful, but not depressed. I'm gonna reframe that. It's not depression, goddammit. Today on the show is Bruce Valanche. I guess he's best known as a comedy writer. He's specifically the guy who was the head writer for the Academy Awards. He was on Hollywood Squares a lot. He wrote for dozens of comedians and singers and variety shows.
But I just remember him seemingly throughout my entire life as just this haircut and glasses. Es ist sehr spezifisch. Es ändert sich nicht. Er hatte sie, als er hier war. Aber es ist ein spezifischer Haarabdruck und Gläser. Ich weiß nicht, was man den Haarabdruck nennen würde. Es ist ein Mop-Top, blond, und er trägt normalerweise sehr rosa Gläser.
Aber er ist ein sehr lustiger Kerl in einer sehr alten Art und Weise. Und er ist seit vielen Jahren da. Und er hat viele tolle Geschichten über die Evolution der Welt. from writing for club entertainers and then into variety shows and then into writing for comics and writing for the Oscars. Old time stuff and it's great. I love talking to these guys because it's a different time.
It was a different time when show business and comedy was innately Jewish in its rhythm and in its practitioners and now it's hard to find a Jew around. I don't know where they're all going, but the entire sort of spectrum of comedy has gotten more diverse and eclectic and interesting. But it just seems as show business contracts, so does the sort of rhythm of the Jews of yore.
My 2025 tour kicks off in Sacramento, California at the Crest Theater on Friday, January 10th. I'm at the Napa Theater. Uptown Theater on Saturday, January 11th. Fort Collins, Colorado. Lincoln Center Performance Hall on Friday, January 17th. Boulder, Colorado at the Boulder Theater on Saturday, January 16th. Santa Barbara, California. The Lobero Theater on Thursday, January 30th.
San Luis Obispo at the Fremont Center on Friday, January 31st. Monterey, California at the Golden State Theater on Saturday, February 30th. Yes. So, I'm just trying to... I'm coming down, man. I have to frame things properly.
I don't know if you have that issue, but if I have a little bit of free time, I'm going to think I'm not doing enough or I'm not good at what I'm doing or that I'm over or that I'm not creative anymore. I have a full list of things I go to that I can use as bats to beat the shit out of myself when I have any sort of downtime. But the truth of the matter is, this last year...
I just have to see it in terms of whatever my goals were or whatever I wanted to do or saw in my life at some point that I would like to do and acknowledge what has happened, what went on this year. I had to put my tour on hold a while back. Ja, genau. And it's not that comedy took a backseat or just was that I wasn't doing it.
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Chapter 2: What was Bruce Vilanch's early career like?
I was, but I wasn't doing it compulsively and constantly like I always do. But I was doing this other thing. And I just got back from New York after shooting that that part in the Bruce Springsteen movie. I got to say, it was really kind of great having a bit of an in with the boss.
because I interviewed him to sort of come out of the set and if I felt like it or if I felt like it was okay to sit down next to Bruce Springsteen and chit-chat. I want to say again what an amazing experience that was because you look at the scope of that guy's work as an artist and he is a real artist and to just hang out with him as a person, as an older person and just kind of Be in the light.
The dark light of Bruce Springsteen was quite something. So, the meat. Look, I feel okay. You know, I feel alright. The vegan thing has been going on almost two years. And I don't know, I saw some reel on Instagram of some Armenian ghost kitchen that was doing some sort of brisket that looked like some kind of Armenian pastrami.
Sure enough, it was some form of fucking barbecue that was going to make me start thinking, man, that's going to be what I eat when I eat the meat. But I pulled back from it. Let's talk to funny guy. Let's have some fun. So, happy holidays. And I'm excited to share this conversation with you. Bruce Valanche has a new podcast called Oscars. What were they thinking?
Which you can get on all podcast platforms. He's a real deal. Funny guy, comedy writer. A lot of experience, a lot of stories. This is me talking to Bruce Valanche.
Hi, Backmarket hier. Die mit der erneuerten Technik, die dich weniger kostet. Wie dieses Handy. Es kann alles, was Handys halt können. Nicht nur diesen nervigen Spam-Anruf ignorieren. Es kann texten, anrufen, chatten, snoozen, liken, entliken. Einfach alles, was ein brandneues Handy kann. Aber das hier ist deutlich günstiger. Denn es ist nicht neu. Es ist von Profis auf Herz und Nieren geprüft.
Fitter Akku und 12 Monate Garantie inklusive. Es ist professionell erneuert. Nein, nicht schon wieder. Gönn dir ein Downgrade. Backmarket.
Weißt du noch, auf dem Festival, als wir im strömenden Regen getanzt haben? Nachdem unser Zelt aufgebaut war, trotz gefühlt Windstärke 10? Und wie fing alles an? Online die Tickets gekauft mit der Sparkassencard.
Für dich am Start, die neue Sparkassencard. Eine für alles, egal was du vorhast. Mehr auf sparkasse.de, weil's um mehr als Geld geht.
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Chapter 3: How did Bruce Vilanch start working for Bette Midler?
Auch damals, ich meine, wir sagten uns immer, es leidet auf dem Wein. Es hieß die Silkenstadt, es war ein Textilzentrum. Und dann wurde es viel günstiger im Süden, um Silken zu machen. Aber ich erinnere mich, als ich alt war, dass es noch einige Textilfabriken gab, und sie würden in den Passaic-River sterben. Und wir sagten, alles, was du da fängst, ist ein roter Trout. Ja.
Das war die erste Comedy-Serie. Sie sahen aus wie Friedfisch. Welcher Lüge war das?
Dein Vater? Deine Mutter? Das war mein eigener.
Wirklich? Ja. Das war der erste Lüge. Sie haben nicht über solche Dinge geredet. Nein, aber sie hatten eine tolle Sache. Meine Mutter war eine Showgirl-Monke. Sie wollte wirklich ein Performer werden. Wie eine Rockette? Nein, sie hatte keine Beine dafür. Sie war zu kurz. Sie wollte... Sie liebte es nur zu performen. Sie verabschiedete sich mit einem Arzt. Und mein Vater war... Was für ein Arzt?
Ein Optometrist. Das ist einer der einfacheren. Er wäre ein Ophthalmologe gewesen, aber er konnte nicht in der Medizin arbeiten. Aber seine Eltern waren Optometristen, was seltsam ist. Seine Mutter war die einzige female Optometristin. In Patterson? In New Jersey. In New Jersey? Ja, die Optometrik-Assoziation gab ihr ein Ribbon oder so. Ja.
Es scheint ein sehr praktisches Level von Doktoren zu sein.
Ja, ich habe in seinem Büro gearbeitet und das ist, wo ich meine Affinität für Gläser bekommen habe. Ich trage jetzt rote Gläser, aber sie haben keine Präzision in ihnen. Du brauchst gar keine Gläser. Ich hatte Katarakt-Schleimhaut, also wenn du Katarakt-Schleimhaut bekommst, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why are these missing? I don't know. I think it was Mrs. Shapiro.
I think that she decided she needed sunglasses for the shore.
Have you noticed that aging Jewish men, as they age, their glasses get bigger?
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Chapter 4: What is the significance of variety shows in Bruce's career?
Yeah. Easier to find. This is my theory. Als sie sich um den Nachtstand befinden. Das sind große, große Hunger-Aristotle-Onassis-Glasen. Ja, das muss die Größe eines Ankers sein. Ich weiß, genau. Als ich zuerst mit Irving Lazar kam, der ein großer Agent war. Ich erinnere mich an ihn. Swifty, ja. Swifty, er war bekannt für diese gigantischen Gläser.
Ja, ja. Und jetzt haben alle, ich habe mich ein paar gekauft. Ich bin so, bin ich jetzt so alt? Ist das der Turn, den du nimmst? Diese sind nicht die. Nein. Nein, nein, du bist wie ein Tom Cruise Aviator. Ja, das sind Aviate, aber die anderen, die ich habe, sind nur dünne Hornräume und es ist noch nicht ganz richtig. Ich muss noch ein paar Jahre warten.
Ich denke, ich denke. Aber wenn du weiß und schmutzig bist, machen dir die roten Gläser wirklich dein Gesicht. Nein, nein, sie funktionieren für dich.
Also, deine Mutter will, ist sie performen? Gehst du in die Stadt? Sieht sie Broadway-Schläge?
Sie machte viele Vorteile. Ja, wir sehen alle Broadway-Schläge. Mein Vater hat Geld in Musiker. Er liebt Musiker. Into Broadway Musicals as an investment? As an investment. He was the tired businessman who loved to go and watch the clowns, Zero Mostel and Phil Silvers and Burt Lahr and people like that. And I, of course, that's where I got it. Looking at all of them. You got to see all those guys.
Yeah, I got to see them all live on Broadway and I thought, this is what I want to do. Where does Groucho factor in? Anywhere? Well, Groucho was on television. Right. So he was... He seemed like a... Because we were... The Marx Brothers movies, that was earlier. But with You Bet Your Life, right? He was on You Bet Your Life. And he was so quick? So quick. I mean, hysterical.
Did you ever meet that guy? Yeah, I met him later in life. Yeah. When he was slower. And he was with Erin Fleming, who earned every dime. Yeah. The woman who he wound up with, who sued the estate, whatever. But he was... Er war sauer, als ich ihn kennengelernt habe. Er war nicht so wie Groucho, der Flick-Cigar und so. Ja, ja, ja. Sauer, weil er alt war? Ich denke so, alt und was auch immer.
Entschädigende Relevanz? Ja, und was auch immer passiert ist, was er haben wollte. Ich weiß nicht genau, was das war.
Ich weiß nicht, ob es für einige Menschen jemals passieren wird, auch wenn sie alles haben. Ja.
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Chapter 5: How did the comedy landscape change over the years?
Also war er auch Manager? Nein, Mentor.
Okay. So you had another agent. Right, exactly. But, you know, I never really made a living at it, but my parents enabled it because they saw I was happy when I was doing it. So they said, let him go perform. Their only concern was that I couldn't make a living. They kept saying, you need something to fall back on. Und ich habe angefangen, für den High School Newspaper zu schreiben.
Und das hat gut funktioniert. Und sie meinte, oh, das ist großartig, du könntest für einen Newspaper arbeiten, denn Newspaper werden nie sterben. Ja, nie. Oh nein. Kreskin ist weg und so sind die Newspaper. Es hat lange gedauert. Es hat lange gedauert. So you studied journalism? So I studied journalism and theater at the Ohio State University. Ohio State. Yes. Okay. Buckeyes. Yeah.
How was that for you? I loved it. It was great. It was a five year, you know, everybody was in a stay out of Vietnam program. You know, it was not, I'm 77 years old and I'm here to tell you that, you know, Bill Clinton got away. They all found a way. Dan Quayle found a way. George Bush found a way. Yeah. Nobody wanted to go. Nobody wanted to go. And that's a whole other show.
So I was there for five years and got two degrees in theater and journalism. What was that, like 68 through 70? I was there 65 to 70. In fact, my graduation in 70 was cancelled because we tried to burn down the ROTC building. I didn't, because I was the editor of the school paper, The Lantern. You were there with a pad. I was there, exactly right, being fair and balanced.
So that's why the graduation was cancelled. It was cancelled, and Walter Cronkite got a kill fee. And when I got to meet him later on in life, I told him, he said, yeah, I was hoping there'd be more riots that spring.
I wouldn't have to work. But did you feel at that time like were you involved with with comedy in any way? Was there things coming through the campus?
Yeah, I was acting there and I was writing a column for the paper before I was the editor. That was that.
But was like Krasner around doing the realist and that kind of stuff? Yes, he was. They were in San Francisco.
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Chapter 6: What challenges did Bruce Vilanch face in his career?
Yeah. Right.
And you were aware of that stuff? Yes, absolutely. Because it seemed like there was a time like, you know, post Lenny Bruce, where comedians, not unlike the rest of the country, were starting to adapt to the new world of free thinking.
That's right. When it was really free thinking. We always, there was a humor magazine called The Sundial. Yeah. I was on the lantern, I couldn't be on the sundial, they were arch enemies. But the sundial was edited by a guy we call Jovial Bob, Jovial Bob Stein, who became R.L. Stein of Goosebumps. What was that? Goosebumps is a children's series of books that have become movies.
And he's like phenomenally rich from this thing. Obviously I took the wrong path. He seemed to do alright. He had a girlfriend named Springfield Rifle. Her real name was Phyllis Rifle. So it was that time. The tone of the thing. So the hippie thing was happening. The hippie thing was, yes. We were coming out of beatnik and into hippie. Yeah, so that was the transition, 65. Yeah, right.
When Dylan went acoustic. Sure. When Dylan went electric, I mean. So by the time you graduate and come back to New York, it's a different city. Actually, I went right to Chicago. I got a job on the Chicago Tribune of all places. Okay. Which was a really conservative newspaper, but they liked my style. I used to say I was the first person in the history of the Tribune to ask Yom Kippur off.
And they had to look it up. So I felt I had made my mark. But I was there. You liked Chicago? I loved it.
I still love it. Did you go, were you out looking at the Second City people?
Yes, I lived next door to Second City in a place called Piper's Alley, which was like a hippie mini mall. And Second City was there and the Belushi Brothers and the Murray Brothers. Sure. And John Candy. They were all kids. Ja, wir waren alle gleich alt. War Del Close da? Del war Direktor. Ja, in der 2. Stadt. In der 2. Stadt.
Bevor er gebrannt wurde. Das stimmt.
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Chapter 7: What was the experience of working on the Oscars like?
Es ist alles zerfragmentiert jetzt. Also bist du nach New York geflogen?
Nein, ich bin nach Chicago gekommen, aus Columbus, Ohio. Wo hast du Bette getroffen? Ich habe Bette in Chicago getroffen. Sie war auf dem Broadway und machte Fiddler auf dem Ruf. Sie ging auf die Straße zur Impro, und Bud Friedman machte die Impro. In New York? In New York. Am 44. Ah, genau. Und neben Dyke Lumber. Das war der End der unabhängigen Lachen.
und sie bringt ihr Dijklumber und es war so eine Art Ära. Und sie würde aufstehen und sie war die einzige Sängerin. Sie würde aufstehen und singen und manchmal würde sie etwas sagen. Und er hat mich angerufen und gesagt, ich habe ihr ein Booking bei Kellys bekommen. Wer nannte dich Bud? Ich kannte Bud, weil er Freddy Prinz repräsentierte.
Und ich wusste, dass Freddy nach Chicago gekommen ist und ich ihn gesehen habe. Er hat für Jonah Jones geöffnet, der Jazzmusiker, und dieser Publikum interessierte sich nicht für Freddy Prinz überhaupt. Was denkst du davon? I thought he was wonderful. He was a Hungarian Puerto Rican. He was a Hungarian. And I thought his viewpoint was brilliant and fresh. And I wrote about him.
And it was like the only good review he got, I think. And Bud called me and said, listen, if you like Freddie, you're going to love this girl. And that was before Freddie went to L.A. probably. Das war vor Freddy, gerade bevor er nach L.A. ging. Und ich werde dir die Geschichte erzählen. Er bombte Kelly. Ja. Und dann ging er nach L.A. und er hat Chico und den Mann fast sofort.
Und dann hat Mitzi ihn mitgenommen. Und ein Jahr später war er ein großer Star. Ja. Und er kam zurück zu Kelly als Headliner. Ja. Fuck you, that was the fuck you tour. And he went out, did the same exact act, word for word, he had done the year before, and they screamed and cheered, because they had come to see the star of Chico and the man who they already loved.
And he came back, and the first thing he said to me when he came off stage was, you're the only one who knows what I did. Warum nicht? Ich liebte ihn von da an. Sein Tod war so tragisch. Er war natürlich ein Dämon. Die Dämonen werden dich bekommen. Bud hat mich gefragt, um zu schauen. Und Bette hat für Jackie Vernon geöffnet. I love Jackie Vernon. He's wonderful.
He was one of the first guys I saw as a kid. My parents took me to see Jackie Vernon when I was like 11 in Albuquerque at the Hilton Hotel Lounge. It changed my life. He was so deadpan and perfect.
When I was a kid, I was unwanted. Now I'm wanted in 13 states. Das ist ein guter Job. And she took stuff that was throw away, like Do You Wanna Dance, which was a little boppy jitterbug. Do you, do you, do you, do you wanna dance? And she turned it into this erotic song of longing. And of course, you know that she wasn't talking about dancing. Sure. When she asked, do you wanna dance, baby?
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Chapter 8: What are Bruce Vilanch's thoughts on the current state of comedy?
So we did the comedy and at that point the Jews bought Disney and Michael Eisner kam mit Jeffrey Katzenberg rein und sie brachten ihn rein und sie haben einen Film zusammengebracht mit drei Leuten, die nicht verhaftet werden konnten. Richard Dreyfuss, Nick Nolte und Bette. Es war in Beverly Hills und es war ein großer Hit und plötzlich war sie wieder ein Filmstar. Musserski. Ja. Ja.
Großartiger Film. Musserski und Tucker. Ein sehr lustiger Film.
Ja, wirklich. So, okay, so then you get set up with the Manhattan Transfer. Yeah. And then that becomes, so this is like sort of a heightened, what's the word, cabaret show, right? The Transfer. Wouldn't that be the sort of umbrella of what, didn't she kind of take cabaret to a different place?
Yeah.
Ich glaube, sie hat es gemacht.
Nein, sie waren keine Sketch-Präsidenten. Sie waren Studio-Musiker, aber sie waren keine tollen Live-Präsidenten. Aber sie haben sich erkannt, dass sie dem Publikum alles geben mussten. Aber wir hatten kein Geld, also brachten wir einen Comic mit, den wir günstig bekommen konnten. Immer. Immer. Und wir haben nur vier Episoden davon gemacht. Wer waren die Comics? David Brenner. Klar.
Sie waren alle neu. Gabe Kaplan. Ja, klar. Steve Landisberg. Oh, ja. Und dann, der fünfte, wir mussten jemanden haben, dessen Name erkennbar war. Professor Erwin Corey. Also alle Juden. Alle Juden. Wir hatten immer Karl Ballantyne, aber das war eine extra spezielle Sache. Oh, ich erinnere mich an ihn. Und sie sagten, wie geht es mit anderen Musikaktionen?
Und wir hatten kein Geld, also haben wir Bob Marley und die Whalers bekommen. Wow. Ich weiß, sie flogen in den Studio. Ich wette, sie haben es gemacht. Das muss sein. Sie haben die Scheiße aus dem Netzwerksensor geschockt. Es muss aber großartig gewesen sein. Es war, weil sie noch nie auf dem Telefon waren. Ja.
Und die Ruhigkeit davon sollte nur erstaunlich gewesen sein, besonders im Vergleich zum Transfer. Ja, aber ich meine, es gibt dir eine Idee, was sie haben. Sie hatten den gleichen Art von Eklektizismus, den das hat. Ja, sie waren, sie machten Musik. Und in der Tat, wenn du dich auf den Transferkatalog schaust, ich würde dich befreien, um jeden Gruppen zu finden, der das gemacht hat.
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