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Up First from NPR

Occupy Gaza Plan, Ukraine Ceasefire Talks, China Economy

Mon, 24 Mar 2025

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As the death toll reaches 50,000 Palestinians killed, Israel is considering a full-scale ground invasion and military occupation of Gaza. U.S. officials are meeting with Russian and Ukrainian diplomats in Saudi Arabia to negotiate a potential ceasefire. And, China's premier is calling for open markets and global investment amid the country's economic slowdown. Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter.Today's episode of Up First was edited by Alex Leff, Ryland Barton, Reena Advani, Janaya Williams and Mohamad ElBardicy.It was produced by Ziad Buchh, Nia Dumas and Christopher Thomas.We get engineering support from Arthur Laurent , and our technical director is Carleigh StrangeLearn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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Transcription

Chapter 1: What are Israel's plans for Gaza?

3.03 - 5.674 Steve Inskeep

Israel is making plans to occupy Gaza.

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5.874 - 9.399 Amir Avivi

You cannot destroy Hamas without controlling the entire Gaza Strip.

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9.639 - 13.805 Michelle Martin

But what would it take to hold the territory, and what does it mean for the Palestinians living there?

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14.066 - 31.973 Steve Inskeep

I'm Steve Inskeep with Michelle Martin, and this is Up First from NPR News. Negotiators from the United States and Ukraine met in Saudi Arabia over the weekend to iron out a ceasefire deal with Russia. But as bombs keep falling on Kyiv, is a real truce even possible?

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32.313 - 41.235 Michelle Martin

And China is trying to rebalance its economy. Steve is in Beijing for China's annual conference for global business to find out how China is planning to deal with the U.S. trade war.

41.415 - 43.076 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

China is trying to rebalance its economy.

43.436 - 50.101 Li Chang

Falling back to the law of the jungle will be a regression in history and a tragedy for humanity.

50.362 - 63.589 Michelle Martin

Stay with us. We'll give you the news you need to start your day. We have new details about military plans Israel has drawn up for Gaza.

63.889 - 82.539 Steve Inskeep

Israel is considering a ground invasion to fully occupy the territory within a few months and establish Israeli military rule over Palestinians there. It's unclear whether these plans will actually be carried out. We do know that Israel resumed its war in Gaza, where Palestinians have updated their death count, saying it surpassed 50,000.

Chapter 2: Can Israel control the Gaza Strip effectively?

83.8 - 87.801 Michelle Martin

NPR's Daniel Estrin is on the line with us now from Tel Aviv. Daniel, good morning.

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88.081 - 88.761 Daniel Estrin

Good morning, Michelle.

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89.301 - 92.002 Michelle Martin

What can you tell us about these classified plans?

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92.802 - 109.265 Daniel Estrin

Well, I've spoken to two people who they reviewed the classified plans and they spoke to me on condition of anonymity to discuss them. The plans would have Israeli forces occupy Gaza, entering at multiple points, pushing Palestinians into a small zone designated for civilians and

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109.765 - 133.517 Daniel Estrin

and that Israel is examining options for the military to control the distribution of food, which would be limited to a minimum caloric amount. Now, both people who reviewed these plans said it's unclear if they would really be carried out or if they're just a negotiation tactic to pressure Hamas to release more hostages. In fact, it might be both, getting some hostages free and

134.097 - 147.992 Daniel Estrin

Hamas captivity initially, but then gradually moving toward full military rule over Palestinians in Gaza, which would go far beyond what Israel has stated as its war goals. The military told me it would not comment on future operational plans.

148.632 - 152.857 Michelle Martin

Do these plans for Israel ruling Gaza have the support of the Trump administration?

153.641 - 176.79 Daniel Estrin

We don't know. Trump administration officials did not return my requests for comment. We do know that Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu discussed Israel's military operations in Gaza yesterday. We also know that President Trump's Mideast envoy, Steve Witkoff, has acknowledged that Bibi Netanyahu's return to war is not what many Israelis want.

177.21 - 182.133 Daniel Estrin

He talked about that in a podcast interview with commentator Tucker Carlson, published Friday.

Chapter 3: Do Israelis support the military occupation of Gaza?

219.056 - 231.288 Amir Avivi

You cannot destroy Hamas without controlling the entire Gaza Strip. Eventually, you'll have to control everything. Bringing a collapse of Hamas as a governmental and military entity, this can be achieved in a few months.

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231.496 - 250.779 Daniel Estrin

So he's saying a few months, but other Israeli defense officials and analysts who I spoke with are more skeptical about that. Also, Dan Shapiro, a top Pentagon official on Mideast policy under the Biden administration, spoke with us. They're saying, OK, well, once Israel occupies Gaza, then what? This could mire Israeli soldiers in Gaza for decades.

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250.98 - 259.061 Daniel Estrin

And we're hearing from reservist soldiers already. They're exhausted after more than a year of war and very skeptical that this could actually change the picture fundamentally.

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259.602 - 262.428 Michelle Martin

That is Empire's Daniel Estrin in Tel Aviv. Daniel, thank you.

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262.849 - 263.27 Daniel Estrin

You're welcome.

270.882 - 278.07 Michelle Martin

Delegations from the United States and Ukraine have begun talks in Saudi Arabia to try to achieve a ceasefire in Russia's war with Ukraine.

278.851 - 292.226 Steve Inskeep

Ukraine's defense minister called these conversations productive. The Americans meet the Russians next. So far, both sides have agreed to stop targeting each other's energy infrastructure, although Ukraine's president says that is far from a genuine ceasefire.

292.605 - 307.061 Michelle Martin

We're going to go now to NPR's Eleanor Beardsley, who is in Kyiv, Ukraine's capital. Eleanor, hello. Good morning, Michelle. So you've been talking to people in Kyiv, people who are just trying to live their lives. Do the people that you've heard from think that these talks could produce a real ceasefire?

307.822 - 326.829 Eleanor Beardsley

Not really, because no one believes that Russian President Vladimir Putin really wants to stop the war. And frankly, the proof of that is all around them. On Saturday night, Russia launched one of its biggest drone attacks yet against Ukraine's capital, Kyiv. And I was cowering in the bathroom as this battle went on for over an hour in the skies. And I stuck my phone out the window.

Chapter 4: What progress has been made in Ukraine ceasefire talks?

343.986 - 358.94 Eleanor Beardsley

I went yesterday to an apartment block near the river that was hit by a drone and where an older woman had burned to death in her top floor apartment. And people were gathered out front. Everybody was looking up. The apartment was blackened. The roof and ceiling were gone. Windows were blown out all around. And there was a lot of damage to the building.

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359.06 - 368.206 Michelle Martin

Wow, that sounds terrible. What do Ukrainians say? What do they tell you about these ongoing attacks, even as the ceasefire talks are taking place?

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368.766 - 382.98 Eleanor Beardsley

Yeah, well, they say these attacks just sort of make the talks a farce. I spoke with a 19-year-old law student, Tatiana, who was at the building. She didn't want to give her last name, but she pulled up a video on social media of the woman on the top floor's death, and she asked me to share it with Americans.

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383.701 - 385.843 Volodymyr Zelensky

And this is a part of the video of the screaming.

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385.863 - 387.925 Anthony Kuhn

Everything is a nightmare.

Chapter 5: How does the situation in Kyiv reflect Putin's intentions?

Chapter 6: What is the impact of China's economic policies on global trade?

32.313 - 41.235 Michelle Martin

And China is trying to rebalance its economy. Steve is in Beijing for China's annual conference for global business to find out how China is planning to deal with the U.S. trade war.

0

41.415 - 43.076 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

China is trying to rebalance its economy.

0

43.436 - 50.101 Li Chang

Falling back to the law of the jungle will be a regression in history and a tragedy for humanity.

0

50.362 - 63.589 Michelle Martin

Stay with us. We'll give you the news you need to start your day. We have new details about military plans Israel has drawn up for Gaza.

0

63.889 - 82.539 Steve Inskeep

Israel is considering a ground invasion to fully occupy the territory within a few months and establish Israeli military rule over Palestinians there. It's unclear whether these plans will actually be carried out. We do know that Israel resumed its war in Gaza, where Palestinians have updated their death count, saying it surpassed 50,000.

83.8 - 87.801 Michelle Martin

NPR's Daniel Estrin is on the line with us now from Tel Aviv. Daniel, good morning.

88.081 - 88.761 Daniel Estrin

Good morning, Michelle.

89.301 - 92.002 Michelle Martin

What can you tell us about these classified plans?

92.802 - 109.265 Daniel Estrin

Well, I've spoken to two people who they reviewed the classified plans and they spoke to me on condition of anonymity to discuss them. The plans would have Israeli forces occupy Gaza, entering at multiple points, pushing Palestinians into a small zone designated for civilians and

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