The Tucker Carlson Show
Oren Cass: How Trump’s Tariffs Are Reversing the Foreign Policy That Doomed America’s Economy
16 May 2025
The point of the postwar global economic order was never to help the United States, says economist Oren Cass, and in the end it didn’t. Thankfully Trump just blew it up. (00:00) Introduction (01:20) What Really Is Conservatism? (05:16) How Did America Lose Focus on Family Values? (11:45) The Societal Problems Dividing Generations (30:09) Are Trump’s Tariffs Working? (46:12) Why Did They Try to Destroy Pat Buchanan? (51:07) The Deep State’s Economic Model Was Really About Foreign Policy Paid partnerships with: ExpressVPN: Go to https://ExpressVPN.com/Tucker and find out how you can get 4 months of ExpressVPN free! Masa Chips: Get 25% off with code TUCKER at https://masachips.com/tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Full Episode
In the next five years, we're clearly going to have some kind of economic reset. People will get poorer. What's your position on Trump's tariffs? Are they working?
We should have them, but you should phase them in. There are going to be obstructions. If you are somebody who wants to do business in America, you need to start planning for that. If we want our economy to work well, the way to make a lot of money in America is by making things in America.
It's like the most interesting thing I've heard in a long time. So you're saying that our economic model was not primarily an economic model, was an instrument of foreign policy. It was like the centerpiece of the global order, post-war global order. It wasn't like designed to help the United States as much as it was to preserve stability around the world.
If there's any group to whom we should be focusing resources on, it is families raising kids who are the ones who have been, I think, most squeezed by these economic changes. We will have to pay for that. And the people who will pay for it are the people who are earning a lot of money and don't have kids.
I love that you said that out loud.
Oren Kass, thank you very much for coming. So you've got a book called The New Conservatives, which tries to answer, I think, and we'll speak for you, the question, you know, what is conservatism? What is the Trump movement? Who's on what side? And probably not a better, it's not really an abstract question. debate anymore.
It's like all of a sudden you find yourself, I find myself like on the same side as people with whom I don't think I have anything in common. So what's your definition of conservative?
That's the hardest question in conservatism, I think. And, you know, for me, it comes down to a focus on what actually matters and sort of, you know, all of our policy debates are about the means. What should we do? I think at the end of the day, what defines conservatism and what separates it from progressivism is the definition of the ends. What do we actually think is the good life?
What are we trying to achieve? And I think for conservatives, there's a very deep recognition and belief that the good life is about more than just the individual liberty and autonomy and consumption of stuff.
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