The Russell Brunson Show
Make Your Business Impossible to Ignore: Day with Dan Kennedy (4 of 4) | #Marketing - Ep. 18
Mon, 17 Mar 2025
In today’s episode of The Russell Brunson Show, we wrap up the final installment of Day with Dan, where Dan Kennedy and I dive deep into the sales and marketing formula behind market disruption, radical positioning, and how to attract massive attention (whether positive or negative) to dominate your industry. If you’ve ever asked yourself how industry titans like Steve Jobs, David Ogilvy, and Joe Rogan built unstoppable brands, this episode uncovers the repeatable blueprint behind their success. The reality? Becoming a true authority isn’t about playing it safe, it’s about challenging the status quo, embracing controversy, and strategically leveraging both support and opposition to your advantage. Key Highlights: Why all market leaders follow a formula - and how you can apply it The critical role of books, media, and controversy in building industry authority How opposition drives traffic and makes you impossible to ignore The real reason most entrepreneurs fail to break through, and how to avoid their mistakes Why staying “neutral” is the fastest path to irrelevance How to strategically use media, podcast guests, and partnerships to amplify your brand The biggest mistake entrepreneurs make? Trying to avoid criticism. The truth? Every industry leader, from Tony Robbins to Donald Trump, used controversy as fuel to grow. If you want to step into your man on the white horse position and become the recognized authority in your market, this episode is a masterclass in how it’s actually done. Don’t miss the conclusion of Day with Dan! https://sellingonline.com/podcast https://clickfunnels.com/podcast https://www.nobsletter.com Special thanks to our sponsors: NordVPN: EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal https://nordvpn.com/secrets Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! Northwest Registered Agent: Go to northwestregisteredagent.com/russell to start your business with Northwest Registered Agent. LinkedIn Marketing Solutions: Get a $100 credit on your next campaign at LinkedIn.com/CLICKS Rocket Money: Cancel unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster at RocketMoney.com/RUSSELL Indeed: Get a $75 sponsored job credit to boost your job's visibility at Indeed.com/clicks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: How did Dan Kennedy influence Russell Brunson's marketing journey?
And this is the exciting conclusion of our series with Dan Kennedy. And if you guys, again, if you don't know, Dan Kennedy was my first mentor. He's how I learned marketing and sales was originally all from Dan. And I'm so honored to have him at this year's Funnel Hacking Live. We had a whole VIP day with him. And I've been sharing with you guys my two-hour interview with him on stage.
And what's cool is like, I don't talk a lot. I ask a question, I sit back and let Dan do the delivery. And hopefully you got a lot from this interview so far. Again, we're on part number four right now. And in today's episode, we're going to wrap up the final installment of the interview.
Chapter 2: What are the key strategies for market disruption and radical positioning?
Dan and I are going to deep dive into sales and marketing, the formulas behind market disruption, radical positioning, how to attract massive attention, whether positive or negative, and how to dominate your industry. And it's going to be a lot of fun. So I hope you guys enjoy this episode.
If you haven't plugged into Dan Kennedy's world yet, if you go to nobsletter.com, you can go get a free subscription to his print newsletter. It's worth its weight in gold. It's like literally getting Dan Kennedy to fly to your house once a month and teach you
the best thing that he's got that month uh he's been publishing this new letter for 40 plus years i've been a subscriber now for almost 20 and if you are just getting started now is the time to go to nobsletter.com and become a subscriber that way you can learn from the man himself mr dan kennedy with that said we're gonna jump into the exciting conclusion of part number four of the day with dan from funnel hacking live 10 i hope you guys enjoy this and then next week we'll get back to our normal uh podcast programming appreciate you all and i hope you enjoy this episode with dan kennedy
Are there any other things that those of us who want to step into that and become the radical or the male white horse, like any other things specifically you'd recommend people thinking about or doing as they're trying to step into that?
Well, so there's a lot of models. So this is really pretty easy to model because it's pretty formulaic. So if you, Again, if you think about the MLM industry and you go look at Turner, if you think about the diet industry in the 60s and 70s and you go look at Atkins, if you look at the launch of Apple by Jobs, you know,
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Chapter 3: Why is controversy a powerful tool in building authority?
Um, um, and, and really the expansion of Apple where they had to go get them and bring them back. Um, So on and on and on. There are a lot of models. So if you pick a category, if your category is health, if you're in the health business, there's a lot of models, all the way back to the creator of chiropractic. And so that history is all there, right? In finance, there are a lot of models.
All the way back to the bookstore, Baldwin, that you and I were at, not at the same time, but we were there yesterday. The Rare Bookstore at the Venetian. There's a book. the stock market than you, something like that, right? And it's from 1930. And I'm not going to remember the author's name, but he was a big heretic at the time about investing. So there's these models kind of in every category.
And then there's the sort of the instruction manuals. For the aftermath of it, the man on the white horse position, Eric Hoffer's book, The True Believer, is one of the basics, the fundamentals for people specifically in the information. One way to make a living, the Lyman Wood book would be another one. So there's no shortage of
things to look at, understand what each part was, and replicate it. Probably 80%, there's a book involved. Somebody did a book, and they promoted a book. If you think about even in the advertising industry, early disruptors of agency models And advertising strategies, Ogilvy would be one of them. They all wrote a book explaining themselves and their radical ideas, right?
So Ogilvy on advertising is Ogilvy's explanation of what he believes, why he believes it. And at the time, it was very contrary to traditional advertising. So what Ogilvy said, if you don't have a big idea, don't waste your money on advertising. Most advertising of the time had no big ideas. It was just basic brand ideas.
Advertising, you know, not much more than a logo and a picture of a building. And we've been in business since 1936. There's your ad, right? So he was a pretty big heretic. And very theatrical. Ogilvy, most of the time in New York, he roamed around wearing a cape. And he drove a big ass Rolls Royce, killed himself to get the Rolls Royce ad account, which he said was a terrible account to have.
Very hard to advertise Rolls Royces. He did come up with a great ad, of course. But so he used to park this thing right in front of his offices illegally every day, pay the tickets, and go to lunch wearing a great big velvet cape and a book. So you will almost 80% of the time in any of the models you see, you're going to find a book.
Not only in the contemporary models are you going to find podcast, YouTube channel, right? You're going to find the new media as well as the book used in the same way, right? It allows people. To find you. But to get them to go look. You have to stir up all this. Where they already are.
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Chapter 4: What are the historical models for becoming an industry leader?
Uh, so like a lot of people have abandoned trade journal advertising in niches and they shouldn't have, cause it's a great place to start this. Um, readership still about 20% of an association and the rates are cheap because people are abandoning print, you know, and so forth. Um, um, Jay Abraham had an ad he used a number of times. It's really a great ad.
I think Halbert wrote it, but I'm not sure. He used it in insurance and he used it in medical... The headline was, who is this man and why is he saying these terrible things about your professor? Or who is this man and why is he saying these terrible things about your business? And he would then play this game in the end, right? And with a little time, of course, opposition arose.
And he would quote, and now I add the opposition to the ad, right? And they were great lean generation campaigns. Now, in today's world, an ad like that would be a lot more productive because there's a lot more ways for the curious to go find him And start to, you know, get cooked in his environment. That ad will drive people to Amazon. It will drive people to TikTok.
It will drive people to LinkedIn. It will drive people, right? And so as long as you're there, that ad now is infinitely more productive than it was pre-internet. You know, as I think you know, the You know, there's three media choices, right? There's online only, there's offline only, and there's integrated media. And the only sensible one is integrated, you know, is integrated media.
Because each media always creates spinoff traffic events. to other media, and if you aren't there to capture it, you lose it. When you have opposition to you being voiced, that drives traffic. And as long as you're there to get it, and then carry that message forward, you benefit from all the opposition.
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Chapter 5: How do books and media contribute to brand recognition?
It takes a lot longer than any market to get famous by getting famous than by getting famous and infamous. All right? The infamy helps. So early, when we ran the first Personal Power show, the first Tony show at Kathy Renker, the psychiatric, professional community, and the psychologist, professional community, the therapist, professional community. Has that thing got traction?
They all got pretty vocal in their criticism. Well, I mean, look, their argument was, uncredentialed, right? Therefore, risky could really hurt some people. Same thing for Werner Erhard and Est, which preceded Tony. And He's insisting he can bring somebody up on stage and instantly cure some chronic phobia they've had for years. that we treat for years.
You know, Woody Allen's, if you have, if we have any in the audience, I'm sorry, but you know, Woody Allen's line about therapists was always, I got the best one in New York. I've had him, I've been going to him every week for 30 years. Um, and like Tony's curing us like this, you know, that you, I'm sure you saw him, the, the instant orgasm thing, right? From Tony?
yeah that's really funny good punchline yeah but she was due yeah right okay so there was a lot of griping right well so what did that do it sent people the restless native the patient the patient
who's in his seventh year and still has the same problem he had when he started, the professional who's questioning what he or she has been told about how to do the profession, it sent them to go investigate. And then the more places you are, because different people go different places, the more places you are, the more you benefit.
and that's why this last time around like Trump was everywhere I mean everywhere you couldn't you couldn't avoid him and people start well that actually makes sense you know
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Chapter 6: Why should entrepreneurs embrace criticism?
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Chapter 7: How does integrated media amplify brand visibility?
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I do some pro bono work for a food bank. Not a lot, but we have philosophical conflicts, but still. Oh, and the executive director. There's another one of these. You can't tell anybody I told you this ever, ever, because we all hate the guy. But I voted for him because if I separate him from his policies, they all make sense to me, right? Well, how would that happen?
She would have to consume some of him to get to that point, right? So I would, I'm sure here's the media probably that she consumes all the time. NPR, right? PBS, MSNBC, She probably gets a bunch of stuff from like-minded people in social media. And what did all that do? Instead of keeping her away from Satan, it made her go take a look at Satan, right? So the opposition is useful.
And I've always gone out of my way to trigger it, to have it against position, to have a villain, all of that. If you take any No BS book, any of the titles, they all have this early in the book. there is an establishment archaic villain established and then attacked. And then the alternative system is offered to you.
Um, and, uh, like the Ruthless Management book has gotten the most negative stuff. Uh, reviews, you know, all that. Uh, mostly people have read it. They just don't like the word Ruthless.
I'm definitely serious about that by the way but I'd almost rather have the negative reviews than the positive ones because I know what effect it has on people right it's like well I gotta take a look at this guy right and um A lot of people don't have the courage to play this game.
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