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The New Yorker Radio Hour

A Historical Epic of the Chinese in America

Tue, 29 Apr 2025

Description

In recent years, there’s been a stark uptick in the level of violence and hate crimes that Asian Americans have experienced, but the “precarity of the Asian American experience is not new,” Michael Luo tells David Remnick. Luo is a longtime New Yorker editor, and the author of a new book about the Chinese American experience. He looks at how tensions over labor—with native-born workers often blaming immigrants for their exploitation by business interests—intersected with racial and religious prejudice, culminating in episodes of extraordinary violence and laws that denied immigrants civil rights and excluded new arrivals from Asia. “The way politicians, craven politicians, talk about immigrants today could be just torn from the nineteenth century,” he points out. “I do think that the ‘stranger’ label is still there.” But Luo also uncovers the extraordinary support of Chinese Americans from Frederick Douglass, who argued extensively for the immigrants’ political participation and civil rights. “Asian American history is American history,” Luo says. “I want all the dads who are reading about World War Two, . . . who are interested in Civil War literature, to read about this different racial conflagration.” Luo’s book is “Strangers in the Land: Exclusion, Belonging, and the Epic Story of the Chinese in America.”

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Transcription

Chapter 1: What is the historical significance of the Chinese American experience?

1206.417 - 1217.025 Vincent Cunningham

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell.

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1217.686 - 1238.908 Vincent Cunningham

This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul, and Ursula Sommer, with guidance from Emily Botin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Parrish, Victor Guan, and Alejandra Deckett. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherena Endowment Fund.

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1251.667 - 1272.348 Madeline Barron

My name is Madeline Barron. I'm a journalist for The New Yorker. I focus on stories where powerful people or institutions are doing something that's harming people or harming someone or something in some way. And so my job is to report that so exhaustively that we can reveal what's actually going on and present it to the public.

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1273.493 - 1290.865 Madeline Barron

You know, for us at In the Dark, we're paying equal attention to the reporting and the storytelling. And we felt a real kinship with The New Yorker, like the combination of the deeply reported stories that The New Yorker is known for, but also the quality of those stories, the attention to narrative.

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1294.087 - 1311.171 Madeline Barron

If I could give you only one reason to subscribe to The New Yorker, it would be... Maybe this is not the answer you're looking for, but... I just don't think that there is any other magazine in America that combines so many different types of things into a single issue as The New Yorker.

1312.128 - 1329.536 Madeline Barron

You know, like you have poetry, you have theater reviews, you have restaurant recommendations, which for some reason I read even though I don't live in New York City. And all of those things are great. But I haven't even mentioned like the other half of the magazine, which is deeply reported stories that honestly are the first things that I read.

1330.636 - 1347.084 Madeline Barron

You know, I'm a big fan of gymnastics and people will say, oh, we're so lucky to live in the era of Simone Biles, which I agree with. We're also so lucky to live in the era of Lawrence Wright, Jane Mayer, Ronan Farrow, Patrick Radden Keefe. And so to me, it's like I can't imagine not reading these writers.

1353.366 - 1373.71 Unknown

You can have all the journalism, the fiction, the film, book and TV reviews, all the cartoons, just by going right now to newyorker.com slash dark. Plus, there's an incredible archive, a century's worth of award-winning work just waiting for you. That's newyorker.com slash dark. And thanks.

Chapter 6: What role did Frederick Douglass play in advocating for Chinese Americans?

2.662 - 12.048 David Remnick

From the online spectacle around Leo XIV's election to our favorite on-screen cardinals. This week on Critics at Large, we're talking all things Pope.

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12.908 - 29.498 Vincent Cunningham

The Catholic Church was made for this moment. I think 2,000 years ago, the Catholic Church basically anticipated TikTok, Instagram, X. You don't have those little Swiss guard outfits and think they're not being photographed. Oil painting is not enough.

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30.56 - 44.528 David Remnick

I'm Vincent Cunningham. Join me and my co-hosts for an episode on what can only be described as Pope Week. New episodes of Critics at Large drop every Thursday. Find us wherever you get your podcasts.

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50.731 - 55.974 Vincent Cunningham

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.

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60.848 - 82.451 Unknown

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Michael Luo is an executive editor at The New Yorker, and his background is investigative reporting. He's a journalist steeped in the art of prying out secrets that someone is trying to keep hidden. But his new book takes a turn into history, into the past, in particular, the complicated history of Chinese immigration to America.

83.345 - 113.974 Unknown

Michael's book is called Strangers in the Land, Exclusion, Belonging, and the Epic Story of the Chinese in America. Now, my grandparents were... Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe and had a very typical late 19th century path to Ellis Island, Lower East Side, and onward and onward. And it wasn't until I read Irving Howe's World of Our Fathers where I learned anything about this background.

114.034 - 127.544 Unknown

My grandparents never talked about it, which was, I think, pretty typical. You grew up in a Chinese-American household. was immigration and, as it were, the old country ever talked about?

128.43 - 151.588 Michael Luo

Not much. Actually, that's a great question. For this book, I had a chance to sit down and talk to my parents. And the book spans nearly 200 years and goes back really to the middle of the 19th century and this wave of Chinese migration that preceded my parents. My parents came post-1965.

151.628 - 171.009 Michael Luo

They were born in mainland China, fled to Taiwan when the communists came, and came to the United States for graduate school. And so their migration was a different migration than the heart of my book. But this history relates to their history. And this post-1965 migration kind of ends my book.

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