MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas interviews former top federal prosecutor Glen Kirschner on the remaining issues surrounding disqualification of Donald Trump under the 14th Amendment Section 3. Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: What is the disqualification issue regarding Donald Trump?
why the Supreme Court should not have reached the question of the need for legislation to implement the disqualification. Because had the parties had an opportunity to brief and argue it, you know what they might have said? They might have taken the position, well, you know what, justices? There was an impeachment hearing for Donald Trump's incitement of insurrection.
That was the sole article of impeachment. And the House of Representatives voted by a significant majority, 232 to 197, that yes, Donald Trump, should be declared someone who incited an insurrection. And they forwarded that article of impeachment to the Senate for a removal trial. And then a healthy bipartisan majority of the senators voted him guilty.
That's a layman's term that I'm using in this setting. They voted that, yes, indeed, he did engage in incitement of insurrection. Of course, as we all know, they couldn't get to the two thirds, the 67 senators needed. Why couldn't the parties be given an opportunity to go in and argue to the Supreme Court? Ladies and gentlemen, Congress voted that he incited insurrection.
Both houses, no, not by two thirds, that's to remove the disability once you have been deemed to have engaged in insurrection. But all of this, Ben, is sort of a thought experiment, right? This is an academic discussion because the Supreme Court said you need legislation. And I so strongly disagree with that.
It feels more like dicta because it wasn't briefed and it wasn't argued and it wasn't necessary to resolve the issue that was presented to the Supreme Court in Trump versus Anderson. I'm sorry for running on for so long.
No, and look, what I think is so important because thought experiments can actually lead to action, but I think what's important and all I've been trying to do is basically say, look, everyone,
Let me just explain to you what the Supreme Court ruled, what the five justices ruled, why there was such a vociferous protest by three other justices who were appointed by Obama and Biden to the overreach by the Supreme Court. Once we understand that that is what the ruling is, and that is undisputed, then we get to the next step of how can we solve for that? And what's the solution?
Let me just pause there. And just Glenn, just on that piece, you agree with what I'm saying though, right there, right? Like we have to at least understand what it says and then let's solve for it. And then, or can we solve for the thought experiment? And then we go into other issues. Let me, I'll pause there.
Yeah. So sadly, I agree with the proposition that five justices decided an issue that was not presented to them and that they had no right to decide. But they decided at five of them and they announced congressional legislation is necessary. I couldn't disagree with that more strongly, but it is what they said.
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Chapter 2: Why do some believe the Supreme Court's ruling was incorrect?
So everybody's subscribed to Glenn's channel justice matters, and you do great takes with Brian Tyler Cohen. Just do that. I love those takes. But this is not unique to this issue.
When we talk about Second Amendment jurisprudence, when we talk about women's reproductive rights, when we talk about the lemon test, which used to be a test that would govern the separation of church and state, when we talk about any of these issues, the role of agencies in the government,
The Supreme Court, under its current composition, right, Glenn, has this tortured analysis similar to what we've seen here to come out with counterintuitive, illogical, and let's just call it what it is in many cases, unlawful outcomes that actually become the law of the land. And then as law professors and teachers in this area, we have to go explain this like Here's what they ruled.
And people go, but that's not what it said. I go, I know. I'm just telling you, this is what they ruled and what can be done. But here's what they said. And that's frustrating as heck for law students. But that's just part of, you know, that has to change.
Yeah, and listen, we didn't even get to talk about one of the most horrific examples of them really ignoring the plain text of the Constitution, Trump versus United States, the presidential immunity case. I think what they did there, granting a president
an enormously broad swath of immunity to commit crimes against the American people, including crimes designed to try to unlawfully retain the power of the presidency. What they did there, and I'm going to quote somebody who is so much smarter than me, Yale Law Professor Akhil Reed Amar, constitutional scholar. He said, and I can pretty much quote it verbatim,
They ruled that the Constitution itself is unconstitutional. In my view, Ben, they have been abusing their discretion by torturing or ignoring or twisting or overriding the express language of the Constitution in any number of ways. And one of the very difficult questions to answer is, what can we do? What should we do when the Supreme Court abuses its discretion?
And I don't know if we're going to end, but I'm always looking for a little bit of optimism and a point of light. But listen, the Supreme Court gets stuff wrong. Look at Plessy versus Ferguson, right? The horrific separate but equal government sanctioned, government sponsored racial segregation. That was 1896. They decided it.
It took 58 years to make it right with Brown versus Board of Education, which kind of finally put a nail in the coffin of Plessy versus Ferguson.
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