The Megyn Kelly Show
Shocking New Kohberger Case Details About DNA Match, "Unknown Male" Blood, and Witness, with Howard Blum | Ep. 1002
Fri, 7 Feb 2025
Megyn Kelly is joined by Howard Blum, author of "When The Night Comes Falling," to discuss how the FBI may have illegally obtained the DNA match from Bryan Kohberger in the Idaho college murders case, whether the defense team may be able to get the DNA match thrown out entirely, how crucial the single DNA match is to the prosecutor's case, the new details about blood from two unknown males in the Idaho college murders house, how this helps Kohberger's defense, a theory about whether Kohberger could have planted this evidence, the “eyewitness” testimony from the surviving roommate of the Idaho murders falling apart as new details emerge, her admitting she had been drunk and unable to identify Kohberger, and more. Blum- https://www.harpercollins.com/products/when-the-night-comes-falling-howard-blum?variant=41292317949986Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow
Chapter 1: What are the new revelations in the Kohberger case?
But in late January, there was a pretrial hearing, and an important one, that revealed shocking new information that we have not heard before. Joining me now to break down all the developments is Howard Bloom, journalist and New York Times bestselling author of When the Night Comes Falling, a requiem for the Idaho student murders.
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I have to say, it's such a busy news time for us to be doing this. Just shows the significance of what happened at that hearing on January 23rd and 24th. I was like, we've got to get this on because- I appreciate it. I mean, I don't want to overstate it, but it's possible the prosecution's case is falling apart. It did not go particularly well for them. Let's start with the DNA. What happened?
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Chapter 2: Was the FBI's DNA collection method illegal?
Well, the way these authorities got to Kohlberger- wasn't through any other evidence at the beginning but just a little speck of dna smaller than a piece of dust that was left on the button of a knife sheath that was left behind They used this speck of DNA, they processed it so that they could give it to an FBI laboratory.
The FBI laboratory then, after months of not admitting what they had done, it was revealed in the end of January in court that they had taken this DNA and they had uploaded it to two websites ancestry DNA websites that prohibit law enforcement from using this DNA. The FBI did this not out of any evil reasons, but just out of their zeal. You have to go back to the time of the killing.
It was a murder of four young children on the loose. They had really no clues except for this DNA, except for this DNA. It was in many ways the perfect crime. They had no blood evidence. Really, they had no evidence of anyone stalking these young college students. All they had was this DNA, so they ran with it.
And this DNA allowed them to open up many other doors, ultimately having a series of search warrants that led to the suspects, Brian Kohlberger's phone, his car, his apartment. But without that DNA, they couldn't have gotten these search warrants. And now the defense is saying, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Chapter 3: How crucial is DNA evidence in the Kohberger case?
This suspect's Fourth Amendment rights were violated by the FBI's going into these prohibited websites.
You've been saying this all along. You've been suspecting that the FBI got this match between the DNA, the touch DNA on the knife sheath, and matched it to Kohlberger's father. possibly by doing something they're not allowed to do, which is use the commercial DNA websites that people like you and I might go to if we're looking for a long-lost relative. They have a public database.
CeCe Moore, the original creator of genetic genealogy, talked to us about this a long time ago saying, There's only one that's totally public and anyone can upload their DNA and see what's on there. The other two are fee-for-service private companies that are not allowed to be used by law enforcement. Otherwise, nobody would go on there, right?
They'd be like, if I ever committed a crime or have a relative down the line who might've committed a crime, I'm gonna get them in trouble. So there's supposed to be this hard wall.
And you said early on you suspected, because the FBI seemed to be very cagey about this whole thing, they didn't want to turn over the results of how they got this to anybody, that maybe they had done something they weren't allowed to.
Go ahead. Not only did they not want to turn over the results, they said... They said literally that they had ripped up the evidence of their research. They said, we just threw it out. Who ever heard of a major murder investigation, the FBI discarding evidence? But this is what they did. But the defense kept on pressing and pressing. And now they got a judge to give them the evidence.
And it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, it came out in open court that the FBI violated the protocols of these two genetic websites. Now, how is that going to affect the case?
Wait, before you answer that, let's just show the audience what Kohlberger's defense attorney, Ann Taylor, yes, that's her name, argued about this investigative genetic genealogy, IgG, evidence. Listen to her in Stop 41.
Your Honor, our position is that the court should suppress the IGG identification and everything that flows from that. This is supported by Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution, due process Article 1, Section 17 of the Idaho Constitution. There was no warrant for several phases of the search that led to the IGG work, investigative genetic genealogy.
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Chapter 4: What are the defense's arguments against the DNA evidence?
She's saying all the goods they got after getting that hit have to be suppressed and cannot be used because they're in essence the fruit of the poisonous tree.
Exactly. And if you look at what they had before then, there's not much except for one thing. After Kohlberger is arrested, he's in a Pennsylvania jail and they do a cheek swab. And the DNA from that cheek swab matches the DNA on the button of the knife sheath. That is pretty substantial evidence. But if they can get that thrown out
That will make a case, it seems, pretty much a shut case to be more open than shut. And there's going to be a possibility of a Franks hearing. That's a judicial process named after a 1978 Supreme Court case where evidence was thrown out because the police had falsified information to get their warrants. The judge has not said he will have this Franks hearing.
but he has raised the possibility and he's asked the lawyers to keep time available to have such a hearing.
And if that's not what the prosecution wanted to hear, the prosecution wanted to hear, there's no need for a hearing. This is ridiculous. You know, irrespective of how we got to Brian Kohlberger's father as being related to the person whose DNA was on the knife sheath. We know it is Brian Kohlberger's DNA because we ultimately took a cheek swab that shows it was him. But the, but the, so the,
The problem for the prosecution is the judge is not saying no. He's keeping the door open. He might actually have a hearing on this, so he's at least a little interested. But can I just say this to what you just said, Howard? The DNA matching Kohlberger directly is absolutely devastating. There's no question. It's a
As I understand her argument, Ann Taylor's, it's that you would never have been cheek swabbing Brian Kohlberger if you hadn't been doing the shenanigans with the DNA and 23andMe. She's saying you can't even use the cheek swab because it too is fruit of the poisonous tree.
That is what she's arguing. That's part of her argument. But also at that hearing, something else was revealed, which is perhaps even more dramatic and makes her case even more substantial.
Okay, so hold on. But before we get to that, let me finish up this part. I know there's a lot of stuff to discuss. So just so the audience knows, that's what she's trying to argue. She's trying to say everything that followed as a result of you figuring out that Brian Kohlberger's DNA, his dad's DNA, was traceable, from that knife sheath has to be removed.
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Chapter 5: What are the implications of the 'unknown male' blood found?
Here's what the defense is going to say, and I think it's a fairly convincing argument, especially in a death penalty case. You have a white Hyundai Elantra by the house, but you have no proof that that's Koberger's car. You never see the license plate on any of the videos. You never see the man behind the wheel in any of those videos. They're all obscured.
So there are lots of white Hyundai Elantras around. they can't make that connection directly. Then when you have the cell phone tower triangulation that puts him in the neighborhood of the murder house, well, it's a 10-mile radius. In a town like Moscow, 10 miles takes up a lot of territory, a lot of neighborhoods.
You never have any proof that he ever parked in front of the house, that he was ever his car ever came to a halt in front of the house. You can speculate, but you can't prove it. Are these inferences enough to condemn a man to death? It might be hard for a jury.
What is the seven minute screw up on the timeline by the cops?
Well, it seems the cops, when they were tracking the white Hyundai Elantra that night, made an error. They got the timelines wrong, whether accidentally or deliberately, but off by seven minutes. And they put the car that they allege is Kohlberger's closer to Moscow at the time, but
The defense is saying that because of this screw up, which no one seems to be arguing that the cops got this time incorrect, this would have allowed Kohlberger to be driving away from Moscow and to this state park where they claim he was at the time of the murders. Stargazing. Yes, stargazing on a cloudy night at four in the morning when the temperatures are a little below freezing.
My gosh. All right. So it's just it's a it's a screw up by the cops that won't be helpful to the prosecutors in trying to show this case was done by the book. All T's crossed, all I's dotted. All right. So that's some of the stuff. I'm amazed. I'm amazed that at this point in the case. She's saying openly there's no blood evidence tying him to the crime.
I thought for sure they'd find something, you know, that with all the searches they did of his apartment or his car, his clothing, there'd be some speck of the four victims' blood. This is a brutal murder done by knife, K-bar knife, in the middle of the night. These four beautiful college students asleep in their beds or in their rooms at least.
And he is alleged to have killed them in the course of 12 minutes, all four of them.
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Chapter 6: Could there be other suspects involved in the case?
Think about it, because many of us believe that he had on like a worker's suit because we saw that that was... He bought one via Amazon, like a painter's suit, you know, that would cover up your whole... Right. Everything you're wearing. And that that's... He did that for a reason, right? He knew he was going to get bloody.
But... And maybe he had those little booties that, you know, like when the heating guy comes to fix your heater, he puts on before he walks into your house. But he would have... Like, think about it. He's sneaking out of the house covered in blood. Where does he take the stuff off, right? According to them, the eyewitness saw him, which would have shaken him.
He wouldn't have wanted to be hanging out in the house, disrobing, changing out of his workman suit and his booties if he's wearing them. He must have done that in the car. You would think he would have done that in the car and then disposed of this along with a murder weapon on the way home. And we'll get to the eyewitness, which is the most interesting thing of the whole day. But pause there.
We'll get to the blood. We'll get to the eyewitness. So- If you put if you got into your car with a bloodied jumpsuit and a bloodied pair of like those slide on booties, there should be blood evidence in the car.
Yes. And there was nothing in his trunk. They've taken the part the car apart top from bottom. The only scenario possible is that before he got into his car, he had a garbage bag. He put all the clothes he was wearing in a garbage bag. and drove off basically in his underwear that was clean. But where is the clothes he was wearing that night? Where is the garbage bag? Where is the murder weapon?
No one can find it. They've been looking for two years now, two and a half years, and they don't have a trace.
I mean, he did quite a job of disposing of that murder weapon and those clothes. That's all you'd need. I mean, it'd be ballgame. He'd be done. He'd be total toast. I've often wondered if he managed to put it up in a tree somehow, like instead of down, instead of digging ground, which if they'd gotten enough search crews out there might have been identified.
Is there any chance he went up with it? I think he probably threw it into the Snake River. Driving back, the Snake River sort of came by the territory, could have just tossed it anywhere near there. Or it is possible that he went up to that park that he's using as his alibi. He could have gone to that park after the murder, as he's driving around perhaps, and then left it somewhere up there.
It's just mind-boggling. There's so much blood. The house is bleeding. Four dead young 20s and teenagers. In the course of 12 minutes, there would be blood all over you. How... How did he get it to the point where there was no blood in the car? I just, that's a big mystery for me. It's a big question in this case. Okay.
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