Lenval Logan is a retired U.S. Air Force intelligence analyst and former UAP Task Force member. He is the CEO of Phenom LLC, which develops the Phenom app for reporting UAP and paranormal sightings. Logan appears in James Fox's documentary, "The Program," Dan Farah and Lue Elizondo's "The Age of Disclosure," and season five of The History Channel's "The Proof Is Out There." https://phenom.earth/contact/ Jason Sands is a retired U.S. Air Force veteran and former legacy UAP program member. His latest initiative, the Firsthand Fund, helps UAP share their experiences. Jason was featured in James Fox's documentary, "The Program." https://x.com/JasonTSands This Valentine’s Day good things come in big packages at MeUndies. Score huge sitewide savings at MeUndies.com/ROGAN Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT) or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD).21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min. $5 bet. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: dkng.co/dk-offer-terms. Ends 2/9/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day!
Okay. Joe, what's happening? Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, Steve. Both you guys were in the program, which is a UFO disclosure documentary all about what's going on behind the scenes. Why don't you tell everybody before we get started? Jay, tell them what your background is, what you do.
I'm a retired master sergeant from the Air Force, worked 22 years, retired 2007. Started off as an airframe guy, ended up in intel, and that's when things got strange. I had my second duty assignment as an intel guy and got introduced to the program, and that's how I ended up in the movie, because I had some strange experiences that I could talk about. that were unclassified.
So I came forward and that's where James founded me. And we got along pretty good and everything's a history from there.
And, Logan, you were in the documentary as well, so tell everybody what you do.
So I am a— Pull this up to your face. I'm sorry. It's okay. So I'm also a retired Master Sergeant from the Air Force. Started off as a B-52 crew chief, cross-trained into intel, retired after 21 1⁄2, and I ended up being part of the UAP Task Force, and I was one of the first people to come across Jay here and some other people and—
From that, James found out about me and said, okay, we need to talk. So him and Leslie Keen approached me, and I was like, yeah. But I kind of got outed by Jay Stratton. Everybody was ganging up around him, and he was like, why are you asking me? Logan worked for me. And everybody went, yeah. And he's like, okay, I guess I'm out.
Oh, boy. So let's start with you, Jay. What was your first introduction to this whole concept that we are in possession of alien crafts or that we have communicated or there's been some contact? What was your thoughts about it before you had these experiences?
I had had a childhood experience with a UFO previous to that when I was 10 years old. So I didn't really get an interest in UFOs at all. I just thought it was strange. It was also a shared experience with my mother. What was the experience? Well, it was just a red orb that came down. It looked like it came from the atmosphere, you know, distance, and then it kept approaching us.
my bedroom window and ended up kind of hovering near the bottom of my street and I was screaming to my parents you know there's a strange light outside and nobody responded so I ran out to get my binoculars my dad's binoculars and ran out to the front lawn and finally my mom was the only one that responded and we both got to see it taken off as it it came across the rooftop of my friend Eddie's house at the bottom of the street and that's what she's got to see my mother and I
Did it make any noise? Zero noise. No, it just looked like a total mirror, completely polished mirror kind of oblong kind of a ship or craft. How big was it? It was about 30, 35 foot. Really? Maybe even 40 foot. Yeah, it was about half the size of my friend's rooftop, if you were to measure it from front to back. So, you know, it was pretty big.
It was enough for probably your eye to stand up in it and walk around a little bit.
And your mother has the exact same recollection of the experience?
Actually, I've been asked to write a book, so I've got her writing her part of that, and I'll have the same thing. I've had a couple of experiences that my family members and other friends will probably write up soon.
And so this was all when you were young, and so you had this memory in your head when you started working for the government. But when were you introduced to the whole idea that this is a real thing?
Well, I know it's on mission because I just kind of filed away that UFO experience at 10 years old for many years. And I just was kind of even skeptical sometimes about, well, maybe it was just something, you know, an aberration in my mind or eyes or something. But anyway, so I got really convinced that this was real when I was at Wright-Patt on a mission.
When I was in the program and we intercepted some calls that literally were speaking about an NHI presence in the program and they were working in labs.
So Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio and NHI non-human intelligence, right? That's correct. And so they were saying, what were they saying? How much can you say? Like, is any of this top secret or is any of this?
I can pretty much talk about the culture and the presence of the NHI, but I can't talk about like weapon systems and the technology they're developing. That's all going to have to be national security stuff because we don't want our enemies to know what we got.
Of course. So what was this talk of NHI? What did it entail when you first heard it?
Well, it was between two people that were talking about the day's interview with this NHI that they had. They called it Eben. And interview. Yeah. He had had an interview with him and he was relaying what was talked about in that interview to another individual, probably his boss or somebody that is going to, you know, pass it on to the rest of the folks in the group or whatever.
Do you see this written down? I did not. I had it recorded just like you would with anything else that's, you know, it's recorded in such a way that it can stand legal forensic kind of analysis. That's the level of stuff that you have to do with an Intel guy is you have to be really specific about what you're recording and make sure it's accurate.
Even whether you believe it or not, what's going on, you have to be able to transcribe that word for word the way it goes.
So you heard the recording. That's how you found out about this non-human intelligence thing.
Well, it was an active phone call. That's what I did on the red team that I was on for the program because I was monitoring for the Air Force. And in this case, I'm monitoring for the program.
Can you say how the conversation went? How did someone bring up non-human intelligence? Was there any discussion before this non-human intelligence of UFOs at all or aliens at all?
Yeah, there was quite a few times. We had a scientist on the team. There was an officer. He was a nuclear scientist, and he was able to give us some insights and stuff like that because we'd have some really strange things like, Things that were turning at 90 degrees and how do you not break that piece of machinery or not kill the occupants? And we were hearing stuff like that.
And they had like very technical parameters that I cannot discuss. But they were talking about these and we'd get the scientists to come and talk to us and they'd say, oh, yeah, that's this, this and this.
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That was just like the two of them when I picked up the call and started the recording on it. There was some guy that was there at Right Pat, and apparently he had been talking to this Eben. And he said, yeah, today's session, yeah, we've got some more information you need to hear about. This is what is going to happen.
You know, he says that there's going to be another meeting and that if we don't return the equipment and the prisoners, there's going to be some bad things happen. We have prisoners. Yes. This is what they said on the phone call. And the other guy's like, well, hey, what if we can't get them to return all the equipment and the people?
And the guy that had given the interview, he's like, you don't want to do that. And the guy's like, well, why? He said, if you don't, they're going to be put to death. And I was like... I literally stepped back for a minute and I was like, what's going on here? So I had to finish out the call. They talked about Sundry, other things, just stupid stuff.
Can you be a little bit more clear, like who was going to be put to death? The program folks that are responsible for keeping the tech that's not theirs. and also doing things to these extraterrestrials.
How did they allegedly acquire this tech?
Retrievals. Retrievals. Yeah, when I was first introduced into the program, one of the very first things they asked me was, do you want to be part of the retrieval program? And I said, well, tell me about it. And when they said the things they said, I was like, no. Number one, it sounds gross.
Number two, you probably can't give me enough PPE gear and hazmat gear to make me feel safe around these things. And no, I'm not interested in that. Thank you very much.
So how do they describe it that freaked you out that much? They're talking about biological entities that are retrieved along with the crash?
Yes.
Why do they crash if they're so fucking smart? That's always the big question, right?
Well, I think the new guy on the block, Jake Barber, he's describing some of the ways that you can do this psionically. I guess his psionic team, he's going to start showing some of that to the world, that some of these craft are manned and piloted by consciousness. And apparently they have a psionics team that can actually get in the headspace of these craft and cause them to land.
So it's not really a forced landing. It's just kind of a mutual thing.
So wait a minute. The United States government has the ability to contact or interact with these craft and force them to land?
Yes, and then there's other ones that are done kinetically, which is more the scary side of it and the ugly side of the program is that what you've got here is it's not so much the military doing this, but the corporate people like Lockheed, Northrop, and all these other companies, they treat this stuff as very high-value target kind of stuff, and it's very valuable for them to get the retrievals.
So you've got really what – amounts to a bunch of treasure hunters that are hired with mercenaries involved as well that go out for these retrievals. And that's where Jake Barber comes in is that he sees some of these people that are hired to come out and retrieve this stuff and he's done that.
So the idea would be that the retrievals would be very valuable because you could back engineer the tech, figure out how it works, make weapon systems, make superior crafts.
Exactly.
How long has this supposedly been going on for? Decades. It's been going on for a very long time. Even before I was born. But if the tech that we have now that allows us to tell them to land didn't exist before, why did they crash before? What is Roswell?
Well, Roswell... The most accurate account is the one where the microwave radar waveform upset the onboard avionics inside these craft that these NHI were flying on that day in Roswell.
But radar is just a detection signal, right? Right.
Right. But if you look at some of the stuff like Gary Nolan said about how even at the very molecular level, these things are organized very minutely. So you can imagine what – even a flow of electricity, if it affects it wrong or it's at the right wavelength, it does break down the electrical current and the electromagnetic or whatever drive that they might have.
And that seems to be what happened at Roswell is that they actually – accidentally went in and were just sweeping like a radar and it caused this craft to crash.
What a shit design. You know what I'm saying? Imagine if you bought a Tesla and the wheels fly off when it rains out. You'd be like, what the fuck? You guys have this super advanced vehicle that you can come here from another planet and radar makes you crash? That kind of stuff makes people incredulous, right?
I'd like to add something here. Someone gave me an analogy to say, think of it as There's a type of metal that is totally non-magnetic. But as soon as you put a current through it, it becomes magnetic. All right. And he said, imagine this. You're in Roswell. You're cruising along. You're checking out everybody doing their thing.
And then because remember that night there was a huge electrical storm. That's one of the big things they keep talking about. If one of those things gets hit and all of a sudden they slam together because now they're magnetic. And then they bounce off. And that's why you had one that landed in Roswell area and the one that landed somewhere else.
Yeah, there were two.
So that was what someone told me. Now, I've never been able to figure out if that's the actual truth. But the two most likely possibilities is that one.
There's actually another person that was approached by, you know, the same race of NHI. And this guy says that they actually recounted what happened is that they thought they were attacked by a directed energy weapon. And then they quickly found out that, no, this was just accidental and that this was some sort of a radar system that just caused their attack.
their onboard computer to go haywire for just that second enough to cause the crash to happen.
It almost doesn't make sense to me because like if you're going to go visit an uncontacted tribe in the Amazon, you would assume that they have weapons. You'd assume they have bows and arrows. And if you got hit with an arrow, you'd be like, this is crazy. You know, I can't believe I got shot by an arrow. But you wouldn't be surprised that they have arrows.
Like you would probably write, hey, man, we should be real careful that they might have arrows. They might shoot us. So if you're visiting the human race and you're so advanced that in 1947 you can come here from wherever, another planet, another dimension, whatever you're doing, wouldn't you know about radar?
And wouldn't you have like a system to prepare yourself for storms? Yes, and that's something that might have taken them by surprise because you're talking about 1950s. Radars were not all that new, but they weren't all that old either. When was radar invented? Do you know?
It was World War II, if I remember correctly.
Yeah, it was World War II. So it was right around the 1950s. Right around the same time. Right. So it may have been unexpected technology for them, and maybe they just didn't have their countermeasures up or something.
And there could have been some type of arrogance there because think about it. Based on our understanding, we believe that they've been coming here for thousands of years. Nothing's ever happened. And then all of a sudden –
All of a sudden this new technology and it causes their ship to crash.
So you have to think about the time frame of when this radar stuff was actually being – and besides that, they do not always – I intercepted a different call that states that they do have a periodicity between when they come and go. They're not always here. They're out doing other things, I guess.
I treat this like a segment on the Arsenio Hall show. Things that make you go, hmm, I'm not sure. It just seems dumb. It just seems dumb that radar could take them out.
But one of the things about the Virginia crash, which is another James Fox documentary, which is excellent, which is all about the crash in Brazil, which is heavily documented, including the guy who handled the body wound up dying of some unknown bacterial illness.
that they have no idea what it was and he was a young healthy guy he carried this supposedly carried this being put it in his patrol car took it to a hospital they wouldn't accept it had to take it to another hospital and then two weeks later this guy's dead and he just he got unbelievably sick there's nothing they could do to help him they flooded him with antibiotics all kinds of different things nothing worked he died very quickly
When you hear about that story, the big thing was that there was some sort of crazy electrical storms that night. But again, if you're going to have a Tesla, you would assume the wheels won't fly off when it rains. You're going to come here from another planet. What's on that planet? Well, they occasionally have lightning. Well, let's not fuck around if they have lightning.
Let's not go into the storm. If you're in a plane, you can go above the storm. You know how, like, a pilot says, we're going to take this plane above 45,000 feet to let you know, and then you look down, you can see lightning below you in the clouds. It's kind of crazy. How come they can't do that?
You got me. I was born in 63. This happened earlier than I even got there. I'm just trying to go off of what I heard on my missions.
I understand. I'm just playing devil's advocate.
And I agree. I kind of had the same thoughts. But at the same time, we've made similar stupid decisions when it comes to battles.
Yeah.
Right. I would assume they like you were talking about arrogance. I would assume they don't have that anymore. Like, no, it's not working. Work that out of the system. We should work it out of the system.
Well, I think that that's true to an extent. But I think also they're very common. They have things in common with us as well, that they do have, you know, the same sorts of desires to want to live their life well and all these other things are part of it. So, yeah.
Well, it seems like if you want to go and do something, anything, like you want to explore the universe, you want to accomplish things, you want to make technology, it almost seems like some kind of self-acknowledgement or some kind of ego has to be present. Yes. Like otherwise there's no motivation to do anything. Like this was the question about artificial intelligence.
We were talking about this, and I said, but if artificial intelligence doesn't have any human needs, it doesn't have the desire to spread its DNA, it doesn't have the desire to achieve status, why would it do anything? Why wouldn't it just sit there and just observe and just watch us be stupid?
And maybe it would say logically it would interfere if we were about to blow each other up or something crazy like that. Right. But other than that, why would it do anything? Why would it have any desire to take over?
Well, look at us. And this is where I think there's a commonality between us and the NHI. We're intelligent people. Some of us. Some of us, yes.
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Oh, yeah. It's everywhere now. Okay. Take back what I said. But actually, though, they— No, obviously we're intelligent and drunken. But they probably have a desire for entertainment, which we do have a great— Oh, yeah.
We're very entertaining.
We love that. Yeah. And they probably have a curiosity as well.
They have to, right? If they're exploring, why else would they explore? So whatever it is that made us us, you know, from ancient primates to what we are today— a big part of that is all these needs and desires. And you got to wonder like at some point in time, Does that get engineered out of the biological system?
And if it does, that system seems like it wouldn't need to explore at all unless it's facilitating a process. Unless there's a very delicate process where advanced life forms like ourselves are experiencing this new technology. And a lot of the people that are in possession of the technology aren't even the ones who created it.
So they have all this insane responsibility but they've done none of the work and they have power over this technology, which is where we find ourselves today, which is real weird. Imagine that's a process that all intelligent life goes through as it's evolving all throughout the universe. Maybe they know this. Maybe it's a precarious thing and maybe it has to be monitored because like, oh –
You know, Star 15. Remember that third planet? Yeah, they fucking whacked the whole planet.
Yeah.
Got there too late. And they realized, oh, that took like four billion years to make intelligent life that could figure out cell phones. And these dipshits blew each other up. Yeah. And now there's nothing but, you know, microbes. And it's going to take billions of years. And it might not even work because they might be too far from the sun by then. Now for another test case.
So let's prevent these territorial primates from killing each other. And just maybe that's a thing that they do throughout the universe like farmers. Like, you know, make sure the wolves don't eat the calves. You know, just like protect it until it gets to this next stage.
And I have to say that on mission that I did get that feeling that no matter where the NHI were mentioned, it was not a copacetic free-for-all exchange of technologies at all. It was very controlled by the NHI. If there was a lab environment, the NHI demanded that no human be in the lab while they're there or watch what they're doing and record what they're doing.
And then they would leave and then the humans could come in. So it's a very precarious little game they're playing.
So how long have they supposedly been having these interactions with NHIs?
I'd say since – I don't like calling them NHIs. I like calling them aliens. For me, again, I wasn't – I like just calling them aliens or whatever. But yeah, I think it happened in the Eisenhower days. That's when it really started to come because that's when they were saying that this UFO came to Holloman and landed and actually talked to the president at the time and all that stuff.
Imagine a UFO talking to Trump. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He'd probably try to tax them.
So my biggest question, anytime someone brings up NHI aliens, my first thing is, which one? Which one? Because they talk about it as if it's one entity. Oh, they did that. Oh, they did this. But when you break it down, we're hearing some like us and want us to evolve. Some don't like us and want us to kind of...
Pull back.
Pull back. And they want to control certain things. So I'm like, well, which one? And then they look at me with that deer in the headlight and look like, oh, I don't know.
Right. So there's the idea that our superiors, that the military, the top levels of government, even they are not given all the information. Correct. Because probably we're like a bunch of children. We're like, you're too stupid to figure this out. I'm not going to tell you what a nuclear bomb is. Just duck and cover.
However, we could be the greatest show in this part of the universe. I'm sure we're a great show. I mean, imagine when we talk about the things with the nuclear bombs where the missile silos, they started counting down or whatever. Maybe it's like, hey, hmm. Let's see how far they'll go if we do this.
Right.
And everybody gets all excited. And then I was like, OK, we're just kidding. We'll turn it off and go from there.
Well, perhaps. I mean, listen, we run experiments all the time on animals. All the time. And we have collars on bears. We set them loose. Like, let's follow the bear. Where's he going? We do that all the time. We do that with all kinds of species. Yeah, we do. It only makes sense that they would do it with us. Especially since we literally have the ability to annihilate all life on Earth.
And we're pointing at each other.
Multiple times. Yeah, multiple times. Yeah, mad, mad world.
It's a mad, mad world. I had that argument with Neil deGrasse Tyson. He was like, why would they be interested in us? I'm like, what are you talking about? We go to the jungle to study a frog. Like, of course they would come here. We're so strange.
And we protect the turtles in that one little area that EPA says, oh, no, you can't mess with those turtles.
Yeah, imagine Elon gets to Mars and we do find life there. And we'd be so interested to figure out how it works, what makes it tick.
You know they believe they found actual water on Mars, not frozen water now? Yeah, on the poles. Yeah, I heard about that. That's nuts. Yeah. Because if there's actual water in there and they can find something in that water that's alive.
But if we're going to expand out into the universe, which is what Elon Musk says, the fact that we don't have to bring water with us, that's huge.
Bro, I ain't drinking Mars water. I don't drink tap water and I definitely ain't drinking Mars water.
It could be better than Red Bull.
Imagine. Bro, imagine if it's like filled with crazy minerals and you drink a glass of Mars water and you just feel incredible. And then we have to ship Mars water from Mars back to L.A.
That's a war right there. That's a war right there. People are going to be like, how come they have it? We don't. Right. There'll be water wars.
What if Mars water just makes you go back in time? You look 20 again. Yeah. Yeah. You know?
I mean, who knows what the fuck's in that water? I don't know. But those are the kind of things you write, though, that that's kind of how we are. It's that we're very curious about what's on that planet and how we can utilize the resources that are there, like the water and everything else. And we're going to learn some stuff. And it's going to take a long time.
What I'm really curious about is what was Mars like before it lost its atmosphere? Yeah.
Me too.
And was there a time a few billion years ago where Mars was like Earth?
It seems to be what people are saying.
That's the craziest of all theories, right? And the most interesting. But if Earth still exists five billion years from now and now it's cold and dead and there's nothing, how much would be left? How much is left after a couple of billion years? What is really left over? What does it look like? Does it look like Mars? Because Mars looks completely desolate. But we know that Mars had water.
And we know Mars had a warmer climate. So you kind of just assume there was something growing there. What does it look like a couple of billion years later? Probably like Mars. Which is great.
If we do find out that Mars at one point in time housed biological life or maybe there's microbial life or something like that that still exists on Mars, just the climate is so harsh it can't advance past that stage, that alone would just change our whole view of the universe itself because we would start to consider, okay, maybe this isn't just this one thing that happened.
Maybe the Fermi paradox is just that we don't have the ability to detect all these things that are out there. Yeah.
Or maybe they really do pass by and keep their doors closed. And locks. Right.
We're fucking shooting fireworks on Fourth of July. We're nuts. We're the craziest species on this planet by far. Everything else is normal. Everything else just kills what it wants to eat. Everything else, you know, does normal stuff. They fight over resources, but that kind of makes sense biologically.
Honestly, after my experience in the program, I found that it seems the more I think about it, the more that they are very much like us in a lot of ways, but they have Probably a world government that we do not have. In other words, they can get along in their own society much better than we can and their former government is not all broken up.
I think if you branch out into the solar system and then into the galaxy, like as you start spreading out, if you do become some sort of an interstellar species, you kind of have to be united as a planet. Right? You got to go, look, all this bullshit about this country and that country. Let's let it go. Let's let it go.
I mean, I don't want one world government because I don't trust the government. But if I did trust the government, I'd be like, one world government is the way to go. Everybody should have the same resources. Everybody should have the same access. Exactly. healthy food and water and clean air. It should be the same for everybody.
It shouldn't be that you can make an iPhone in China because they can make it for 15 cents because people are working like slaves. Exactly. It shouldn't be like that. It should be like the whole world has the same rules. But the problem is you can't trust the government. So what do you do?
Well, if you get to a point where everybody's so advanced that we don't have all of the same greed and lust and all the bullshit that ruins human society, if aliens get to that point, then it only makes sense that they would operate as a planet. But then they would have their interest ahead of these fuckers on that other planet.
So along those lines, it's those things that you talked about, those are the things that inherently make us human.
Push that microphone a little closer to you. I'm sorry. The hand moves. You can push it if you want to sit back.
Those are the things that inherently make us human. So the question would be – Depending on which NHL you're thinking about, what inherently makes them them and how compatible are we in what we're looking at? Because those could be some of the things that attract them to us or detract them away from us.
What I'm interested in is are there things just like us? Is this like if you – you know, like there's similar plants that exist in similar ecosystems all over the world where ideally the seeds have never been able to get back and forth. But they're similar, at least in some ways. It's just a matter of climate, resources.
These plants, over millions and millions of years, these same kind of plants grow. Similar kind of animals. There's rats all over the place. There's a pattern to it.
Yeah, there's a pattern. At atomic level, there's a way that things occur naturally, and they form different things. So a bird, I agree. I think when I talked about it the first time we spoke on the phone, it's like, yeah, there probably is a bird. It kind of looks like a bird on another part of the universe, but maybe it has two sets of wings. Right. Or two heads or something. I don't know. Right.
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Something similar, like, I mean, the birds vary so wide. I mean, you can get a sparrow, you can get a fucking eagle or a condor. There's so many different kinds of birds, too. But I wonder, is there... Is this the only kind of way life evolves, or are there planets that are just radically different than our planet, and life forms in a completely different way?
Yeah, I would think that that's true also, is that there's exceptions to the rule, just like there are here on Earth. Right. We've got some really strange creatures that roam around, like people are starting to say octopi and stuff. They don't fit the normal way that things evolve around the Earth and stuff like that.
And there's no bones there, so... You know, you're not going to find any fossils anywhere. Yeah. But if you think about some of the things that we're being told now, 99 percent of all life that lived before is all gone now. Right. So if this is what's left, maybe some of those unique things that were out there.
There's something similar because one of the things that I ponder is there's got to be some grand design because when we see these aliens, whether they talk about it's a gray, it's a Nordic, it's a draconian or if it's a mantis. They're all standing upright. So is that a part of the grand design that is as intelligent as you get further up the food chain?
You start to stand on your two legs and whatever. And then I think about if it's a mantis, whatever, how do they build their ships if they don't really have opposable thumbs and, you know? Those are the things that we're always taught. These are the things that make us unique as humans, and we can build things, and that's why the other animals didn't.
The only other animal out there is what, the chimpanzee or the gorilla or something, primates. But obviously nature finds a way, and it's not human nature. It's something other type of nature, and they do something else.
Well, it could be genetic engineering too. It could be that they – I was going to mention that. They reach some point where they say, well, what's the best structure for a body? A mantis structure is way better than a person's structure. We break so easy. Mantis are insanely strong. You ever see a mantis catch a hummingbird at a feeder?
Yes.
It's nuts, man. Taking out tarantulas and scorpions. They're so little. And they just snatch that fucker up and he can't move. If you looked at them, the hummingbird is probably four times heavier at least, probably more than that. And he's just like whoosh. Gotcha. It's like that design, the exoskeleton design is superior in terms of like durability.
And also lobsters and crabs and all these kind of insects like that. Do demantis regrow limbs? Let's find that out.
All I know is that crabs do.
I know crabs can.
Lobsters and crabs, all I think of them is just armored spiders. Yeah, they're bugs. And if you think about when they said that the oxygen level was at 30, 35 percent and some other stuff, they're saying some of these spiders were the size of small dogs. I'm like, yeah, that's not a place I'd like to live.
So they can. So praying mantas undergo incomplete metamorphosis. Sometimes if their cage is too dry, a mantis may have trouble shedding old skin, will lose a limb in the process of molting. If it happens, it's possible for a mantis to regrow the lost limb, but only when they molt again. Oh, okay. So they molt again and then they regrow that limb. That makes sense. But they do regrow their limbs.
They regenerate limbs as long as there's at least a coxa remaining, whatever that is. Yeah. It won't regenerate right away. Maybe a tiny nub and then they molt, I guess.
Wow. That makes sense because the harder shell would prevent that limb from continuing to grow.
But it just seems like that's a superior form of structure. So if you get to the point where technology is all done with the mind, right? We've developed artificial intelligence and quantum computing and the being has been generated over time.
genetic engineering to the point where it no longer has to have sex to recreate new versions of itself and so instead the way they procreate is they do it through design and maybe they say look it doesn't matter what you look like anymore no one's fucking let's all become mantises laughing Right?
I need a reset now.
This soft shit on the outside, we're like fucking water balloons. We're so vulnerable. Yeah. Wouldn't it be better if you're hard on the outside? We don't need to use your fingers and thumbs anymore. We do everything with our mind.
I mean, if it gets to the point... This is the thing that I've heard about people that have supposedly worked on crafts, is that one of the most remarkable things is that there's no... There's no gears. There's no levers to turn. There's no buttons. There's no controls. That everything is done somehow or another where the being and the craft are one. Yes.
Consciously, yeah. I've had discussions about that.
Have you talked to anybody that has said that any of the crafts have controls in them?
No, all I've heard... Basic, yes.
Basic controls? While I was talking to Jack Cerfati about it, there was a craft that did have some place where the hands were in there, but it was only to sort of do some minor adjustments for the craft, is what he was describing, and other people have described.
That's not what I was going to say. All I've heard is that there's been...
Two places for you to put your hands and maybe for other parts of the crew, but that's about it Maybe that's so you don't use your phone Distracted just use your hands put your hands down on the thing Yeah, maybe they have something similar to like cell phone addiction, yeah So they're putting their hands on the thing that wasn't that what Lazar said as well Didn't he say there was something similar to that?
Yes, he did Yeah, so no controls and somehow or another putting your hand on it syncs you up, and then they're just using their mind. Correct. Did they try to explain how this was developed?
There's a lot of people that are looking into it now, and they're starting to see that, yes, it's possible. And I think that's, again, some of the new whistleblowers can shed some more light on to how this happens. And I think we need to hear a little bit more about these folks that came forward about the psionics team. And what exactly is this meditation? What are they linking up with?
Does it feel mechanical? Does it feel like an entity? Because, you know, when you hear Jake talk about his experiences, he had a really spiritual experience with one of these things. While he was carrying it to the next place, he was literally crying in the interview. Yeah.
This is that egg-looking thing.
Yeah, he said that he felt – well, he called it the eight-gon, I think, craft. That one is the one he had the spiritual – Eight-gon? Eight-gon, like a hexagon, but it has eight sides, or octagon, I think would be the actual term. But he said it had like an eight-sided kind of a disc shape.
So this is not the thing we're talking about with the helicopter?
Not the egg one. This is a different one. A different one. So he encountered a different one. Oh, okay.
I didn't see that interview.
Yeah. Well, the detailed one, I think you can pull that one out of there. But he mentioned that that one, he had like a real no kidding. It was beautiful. And he cried about it because it was so beautiful of an experience.
Wow. And I have a question about all those things, because if they can get into our minds, my thing is that how do you know that that's not what they're putting into your head? Because like what they experienced at a skinwalker ranch when they saw them. the creature on the top floor, they said as they approached it, they started feeling fear.
And as they approached it further, the fear just kept intensifying to the point where it was like a physical change in the temperature. So if someone can put fear into you, why can't they put love into you and all these different things? And I'm not saying that it's not genuine, but Part of being on the task force, you have to question everything.
Well, we can do that to each other.
Yes.
You know, we can do that to each other through threats. We can put fear into people. We can do that. You know, there's a crazy documentary called Holy Hell, and it's about this guy who is a cult leader. And one of the things that he would do to these people, he was a hypnotist, too. But one of the things he would do to these people, he called it the knowing.
And he would put his hands on them, and they would say that they would experience God. They had to be prepared for it. It was a thing that was very difficult to get. He had to prove you for it, and all these people wanted it, and they never got it. It was like a thing he held over your head.
And then when he actually did it, even though this guy turned out to be a complete fraud and the cult disbanded, all those people talk about that moment when they had that experience with that guy, and they say it really happened. Wow. Because the human mind is weird, right?
100%.
And this is the best expression that you can have in life. What is the best expression you have in life? It's love. Pure love. Just pure. just untethered love. It would make sense. It would like put that in you so that you would protect this thing.
Mm-hmm. And that may be part of it. And I think that's what their desire is. Because, like, we, you know, would try to put our best foot forward if we knew that we were similarly being scrutinized. Sure. You know, we'd want to do that.
When we visit uncontacted tribes, we give them free food. Yeah. We're just like, we're here for you guys.
But, see, that's where my fear is. That's why I came forward is that I was hearing stuff that actually brought concern that, you know, in the way I kind of – Package that up is that the military happens to be unfortunately the face of humankind here in this situation when it comes to the program because it's definitely not the public.
We're just, you know, errantly having people come forward with I got abducted or I saw this and I saw that. But in the military, that seems to be where there is an interface going on. Right. And I'm just wondering, is that too heavy-handed because they're not seeing the full human race? Right.
They're only seeing the military humans.
Right. And that's why I kind of took the tack that I did instead of going through all the other channels. I just was like, let me try something new. Let me talk to the people and get to know the people, what they feel about this. And I'll just tell my story. Whatever happens, happens. Yeah, I took some spears, but... For the most part, people are ready for this.
People definitely want it. Whether they're ready for it, we'll find out if it actually becomes bigger and more profound than what we've currently experienced.
I got asked a question, and they said, if you were going to go to Congress and say, here's what we need to know about the UAP experience, what would you tell everybody? That's a good question. And my answer was, we don't need you anymore. Because so many groups now have caught on that if they attune themselves to whatever it is, they can talk to these things directly themselves.
Now, whether it's good or bad, but because of the badness that has transpired over the years, more and more people, like you, you said you don't trust the government anymore. There's people, they don't trust the government at all in this other thing. So they're like, let's reach out by ourselves. You've got people doing, you know, RV and out-of-the-body experience and all that other stuff.
You've got people that are being contacted directly. So now they're trying to say things. And also, too, we're evolving, right? So as we're evolving and other things start happening, you have to start questioning, why do we need the government in the middle of this? Please don't take this the wrong way because people get angry. It's kind of like the Catholic Church.
I was always told, if you want to talk to God, you talk to God. But then why do I need a priest? Right. You know, so the government's always been the middleman. So do we really still need him?
So when you're saying that all these people have figured out these methods, how to communicate with the aliens, what you're talking about is like people sitting down. This is something I'm hearing a lot lately, sitting down and supposedly summoning them, putting out like an intention and that they will come. Yes. Does that happen with you? You ever try it? I haven't yet.
So why wouldn't you try it? If you think it's real. I tell everybody I'm black and I'm afraid of the woo. Okay. But at some point, I know I'm going to have to embrace it because it is part of the experience. So, like, I'm good friends with Travis Taylor.
And when we first started talking, he was like, okay, I'd like to talk to you about coming out to the ranch, you and some of your friends, your Intel guys. And we talked about it. And then I kind of put it up in the room and said, hey, guys, if we had a chance to go out to the ranch, who would go? And all the white people put their hands up right away.
All the black people were like in the corner going, now let's think about this. What are you actually asking? And I sat there and I go, why is it that we're so reserved about going? And I remember something that someone told me was when the woo happens, you embrace it. But you don't run towards it because whatever that experience is, it was probably meant for somebody else.
And now you're interfering when you run towards it.
Right. So if you summon the UFO, like if they come to visit you, that's meant to happen to you. But if you're summoning them. Yes.
Yes.
You may be causing a distraction. People say that, yeah, if I could experience UFO contact, I would. Well, would you really? Because that might fuck up the whole rest of your life. What if it does happen and then it never happens again? And then you have a wife and kids and a house and you just sit in your fucking living room trying to pay attention to this football game.
When you're thinking about... I've seen a fucking alien. I've seen UFOs. They've come down and communicated with me telepathically. I know they're real.
It would ruin your whole life. Remember that movie with Ben Affleck? I think it was called Chasing Amy. Chasing Amy. I remember the name. I don't remember the movie. Not that Amy. But there was something that was said in there that always made me think. After you have a first experience, and in this particular case, there was talking about your first orgasm.
You're always chasing after that first best feeling that you ever had. You're never going to get there, but you're chasing it.
They say that about heroin, too.
Yes.
They call it chasing the dragon.
Yes. So if you're one of those people that had a really profound experience with a creature from another world. Yeah. you can't really explain it to everybody else. So you're looking for something else to make it seem real because you start questioning everything that you know. And that's how I was.
My first experience was when I was a kid in England and me and a friend were just throwing the ball back and forward. And you know, in the old days, people used to wrap the sneakers around the telephone lines. So I just happened to see that there was some sneakers up there. And then all of a sudden I look off in the distance and there's this UAP UFO that looks like an iron.
that you would iron your clothes with. The whole bottom part was glowing. The top part was just dullish great, because England had great skies.
Was the shape the top like an iron as well?
Yes. So it had a hump to it? It kind of had a hump to it. So I'm sitting there going, well, what is that? And he goes, that's got to be a helicopter, because it's just standing there. And I was like, but I don't hear any noise. And then next thing you know, we saw, I believe it was two F-4 jets coming, because you could hear them. Those engines are loud.
And these two jets come out, and this thing just goes, and this is when I was living in Nottingham, England, because I'm British by birth, all right? So, you know, our parents were like, eh, too much imagination, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And I just kind of kept it in the back of my head. And then I saw things later, and I just kept questioning them.
And finally it was like, I'm really going to have to look into this. So how old were you? I was about 10.
And you said you were like 10 as well? This is one of the things that I keep hearing about this idea that children and their innocence, they don't have this blockade in their head to keep them from... They don't think it's ridiculous to think about aliens. They're open to it more.
We talked about this.
We're programmed as we get mature.
We don't want to be fools. So I believe, and this is just my belief, not anybody's, but I believe from the mid 1950s all the way up to the mid 1990s, I think there was a deliberate attempt by these entities to reach out to school children and going to the schools. Because remember the Ruins? The Zimbabwe. Right. That one's crazy.
That's crazy because all those years later they all have the same story. They all drew the same thing independently. They pulled them aside.
All the way to adulthood. They remember it. Yeah. And then there's the stuff in Australia. There's the stuff in England. There's the stuff in France. It's constantly. I think. The Australian one's real similar too, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think his name was Preston Dennett. He wrote a book. I hope your viewers read it or take a look at it. It's like the top 100 school sightings.
And half of it is based on just the sighting. Another part of it is based on the actual thing landing and trying to communicate with the kids. And I sat there just thinking, were they doing that to prepare us for now for when they do come back? So we're not so afraid. The kids are more open minded. I'm not sure, but you have to think about those things and go, hmm.
Aren't you arsing the whole thing?
Things that make you go, hmm.
So those were some of the things that we just started thinking about and going, well, what if? And then I hate to play what if games because my favorite what if is what if worms had machine guns, birds wouldn't mess with them. But you have to play that game sometime and just kind of draw it out and then see if it –
If you have a hypothesis that can start repeating itself and then you go, hey, there is something to this.
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Well, now you know. Switch today at visible.com slash rogan. Terms apply. See visible.com for network management details. Well, the real question is how long have entities been visiting us and are the same entities visiting us over and over again? Or like the Zimbabwe incident, is that like the first time that species has ever been here?
And did they just seek contact and didn't know that they're dealing with little children in a school? They just knew they were dealing with a group of intelligent beings that they could communicate with? They probably don't even have the concept of a school, right? Right. So if they're landing – I mean they probably understand basic culture for human beings.
But as they land and interact with people, this might be the first time this species has interacted with anybody. We don't know. I mean we're dealing with hundreds of billions of stars just in this galaxy alone.
Yeah. And personally, from just my belief in it is that we have millennia of these sorts of encounters all through manuscripts. Even George Washington's got his story. George Washington has a story? Yeah. He met a green somebody before he actually went into a battle.
Yo, pull that up, Jamie. Yeah. George Washington had a UFO encounter?
Or an entity encounter? An entity.
He just said that this was— George Washington also had lead poisoning. Shane Gillis has the best bit about George Washington. I don't know if you've ever seen it. It's fucking hilarious. About going to the George Washington Museum and seeing George Washington's teeth. And George Washington's teeth— They're all wooden. Well, no. They were slave teeth.
First of all, they knocked some of the teeth out of slaves' mouths, and the other ones were from horses. Oh, my gosh. And it was set in—it was all in lead. I never knew that. So he had lead in his mouth. I always thought they were wooden. So his joke is all about, like, George Washington being fucking mad with lead boys. Like, fucking killing everybody. That's why he's at the front of the boat.
He was out of his fucking mind. It's a great bit, but the point is, like, George Washington was being poisoned by, you know, medical science at the time. They didn't know that lead was bad for you.
Yeah.
Which is crazy. He kept lead in his mouth.
Yeah, but I remember... Well, they didn't know.
I know, but, like, makes you wonder, like, what are we doing right now that the future people are going to go, these fucking idiots were doing that? Mm-hmm. But George Washington, have you found his account, Jamie? Not officially. So... I mean, it's from Ancient Aliens about the Founding Fathers. Good enough. Solid reference. Ancient Aliens. If it's on Ancient Aliens, it's legit. Yeah.
Get Giorgio Tsoukalos to say it was wild hair.
So all those things that happened to those kids, we don't know if it was... I mean, we're hearing stories now that they can mess with your mind. We don't know if they're pushing these kids forward mentally. We don't know if they're, you know, dumbing them down because they know that these kids are going to be the ones that are going to make a difference.
Because it all depends on what you're going to try with them. Well, they're all adults now, right? Yes.
Are any of them, like, real exceptional? Are any of them, like, PhDs or something like that?
I have not gone to check any of that. But one of the things that coincides with that, that I kind of... I think there was... Exceptional people usually have to do some exceptional things to get noticed. And I think even if you're exceptional, you may not have fit the right block to get noticed so that someone would sit there and go, hey, what's going on in your past, whatever.
And then there's a lot of these people they just don't want to talk about because of whatever the stigma. But now that the stigma is being lifted, You know, who knows? Maybe Elon Musk will come up with something.
The stigma's being lifted, but people still live with the haunting memory of the stigma being a part of their life. So I think people that have had an experience a long time ago, even though the stigma's lifted, they're still reluctant to talk about it. It's like... There's still people that are in the closet. Like homosexuality is like way less taboo than it's ever been in modern history, right?
But yet there's still people that have been in the closet for 20 years and then trapped. And they're just like, fuck.
And they can't be themselves.
They can't get out. I think for a lot of people that have had these crazy experiences, they probably had some moments where they told people, friends, and they got mocked and people called them liars. They felt like an idiot. Like, I'm just not telling anybody this anymore. Yep. Which totally makes sense.
Yep.
And it's the same thing that's happening on X and other platforms as well. It's just people coming forward trying to speak their truth. And they get shut down by people that have never been there. They're just opinionating. Sure.
100%.
I agree with you.
It's just human beings online, they're just not good at it. We're not good. It's too new. We suck at it. We're real shitty to each other. And too many people, it's like they're mentally ill. And what I mean by mentally ill is, like, if you're on Twitter 12 hours a day and you're constantly tweeting before you go to bed, you're mentally ill. You might not think you're mentally ill.
Just like when you're an alcoholic, you're mentally ill. If you're a gambling addict, you're mentally ill. You're not well, right? You're fucking trying to bet your house on a football game. You're out of your fucking mind. You're addicted. Yeah, you're mentally ill. You're mentally ill if you're on Twitter all day just arguing with people. Mm-hmm.
It's just the nature of the technology and the very crude way that people interact with each other, which leads you to think that as technology evolves and it gets to the point where we're communicating telepathy, through telepathy, telepathically, like supposedly they can, it sort of eliminates the need to even know our language.
They can just come and give us thoughts and express things in a pure way without the need to decipher it through syntax and
But there's still the worry of misinterpretation because my family was pretty religious. And when I was growing up, they're like, God is omnipotent. God knows everything. God doesn't make mistakes and everything. And then I was like, that's not exactly true.
But if you think that God is omnipotent and he's communicating with everybody, how is it that all the leaders of a church have different views on how we're supposed to talk to God? Right.
And it's a personal experience, really. Yeah. And it's the same thing with, I think, the NHI is that, like you're saying, you'd like to put a pattern to it.
Yeah.
But maybe there's not. There's some, you know, very random things that have happened in other encounters. But there's some of them that do seem to have a concerted effort, a prolonged effort for maybe even millennia. Because we do see, like, old stone, ancient, you know, monuments and monoliths that do have these depictions of what look exactly like Gray's. Yeah.
The craziest one, is it in Australia? The one that's on the wall where there's all these dudes with the big eyes?
There's a couple of places where that is. There's a couple of those cave paintings that are like that. Where are those from? Do you remember? I think there's some down in South America.
I saved one. I'll send it to you, Jamie, because I saw it the other day online, and it freaked me out so much. I saved it on my phone. I was like, this is so crazy just to look at.
Yeah, and there was one on the side of a hillside or a cliff face. Yeah, that's why it freaked you out.
Well, because I just sent it to Jamie. We'll take a look at it right here. Jamie, you can run that through a Google search. You can find out where it is. Or I'll do that while you put it up on the screen. It freaks me out because these people were starving. These people were, like, barely getting by, right? They have stone tools.
And they took the time to draw these things with these, like, weird helmets on and these big black eyes, which is fascinating. very similar to so many different encounters that people have. They all describe a very similar thing, a big head with giant black eyes.
So those are the typical grays, but I heard in South America there were people that they showed that picture to him. They called them the ant people because they said they came from underground.
Yo. Well, that's the other question. Like, we're just sort of assuming that these things are definitely from another planet, that they're not here and they haven't been here all along.
Isn't that the Anasazi and the Navajo? Yeah.
So, yeah, these are aboriginal drawings or aboriginal paintings. Yes. Yes. So this is from Australia, which is just wild. And you get them all over the world. All over the world. And real similar all over the world.
You got them in Ireland, Europe. You got them in the United States, Central America, everywhere.
And the vast majority of those children that saw UAP, that came down to their school, if there was an entity that was there, it was usually the typical gray-looking ones that were there.
Well, the ones that they saw in Varginha, Brazil, are kind of similar, but they seem like a darker color. It was almost like a purple, right?
Yeah, it was reddish purple or something like that.
But they did have the black eyes and the large heads. They had horns, though.
They had horns. There was a very specific thing that they said.
The pictures that we're seeing for Varhenia, this one had red eyes. And the reason why I'm bringing that up is because a friend of mine contacted me, a mutual friend that we talked about. Oh, okay. He was talking about something known as the Dover Demon. And it's over by Dover, Delaware. And there was supposed to be an incident where a UAP came down and there was a creature.
And it looked a lot like the Varhenia creature with the red eyes and red eyes. Whatever. So he was asking.
That's what the Varginia thing. Oh, that's the Dover demon.
That's the Dover. Yeah.
That looks like a shoe bill bird. That crazy bird.
Yeah. But he said it had bright red eyes. Oh, fun. Imagine that.
Imagine running into that thing in the night.
Right. So the question was. Blowing eyes.
Never sleep again. Yeah. Yeah. All I know is, like I told Travis- That does look a lot like the Virginia one, though. Yeah, it does. Go back to that last drawing you drew, Jamie. You pulled that, brother? Now, if you can, will you pull up the image of the Virginia drawing? Because they had an artist who talked to the little girls that saw that.
And those women, and, you know, the really- Look at it. Come on, man. That looks exactly the same. Yeah, and there's those bumps on the head, though. Yeah, you can see that maybe that's- That's exactly the same fucking thing, man.
Right.
Like, literally exactly.
So I told Travis, if you ever get me to come to Skinwalker Ranch, I said, know that I've got a plan. And he was like, what are you talking about? And I said, I will not be the slowest runner. However, I will not be the fastest runner because I don't know what's really going on there. I don't want to run from one thing into another. So I'm going to make sure I have an escape plan.
I went to Skinwalker Ranch.
Oh, you did? Yeah.
How did that go? Well, I was doing it for a television show, and we interviewed a bunch of people that lived there, and one guy. There was a lot of people that they wanted to be interviewed, and then when we got there, they chickened out. It seemed like there might be some drug use going on in the surrounding areas.
A few people seemed like a little on tilt, but I think that's a good part of America. I think there's a lot of people. You could find some packets of people in America that are just doing drugs. So I wouldn't say that that was what it was. But this one guy that I talked to didn't seem like that at all. He seemed very respectable.
I don't remember what he did, but he was a very smart guy, blue collar guy and lived in this very modest house. And he had this story of this thing that flew into his yard and through his house. And he said it was a small orb and he said it seemed to be communicating with him. And this guy didn't have any other bullshit stories.
He didn't have any claims of just this one experience that he said was beautiful. He said it was incredible that this thing seemed like it was alive. It seemed like it was communicating with him. And it went right through the walls. And it went through the wall again and disappeared.
I've had a similar case. So every March I go to Seaside, Oregon, because they have a paranormal conference. And I I'm not into the paranormal stuff, but my friends are. So I want to listen and I want to learn. Because this is me trying to get over my fear of going in there.
You have a fear of paranormal or a fear of being around the people that believe in paranormal?
No, the paranormal because of certain things that I've heard from when I was a kid. And you have to overcome some of those childhood fears and stuff like that.
Okay.
So when I was there, I was talking about my app and all this other stuff. And these two Asian ladies were watching me walk on the stage. And I was like, why are they looking at me like that? I was like, is my fly down or something? What did I do? And as soon as I stepped off the stage, they said, Mr. Logan, what are they? What are they? And I was like, what do you mean?
She pulls out on her phone the most beautiful, pristine picture of an orb sitting in a doorway. And I'm like, what happened there? And she said, it was my birthday. And she said, all my family was there. And she said, but I got tired, so I was laying down. And she said, I heard like this electrical discharge going on. And she said, it came right through her wall, started floating across her room.
She said, it got to her doorway. She screamed. And all her family came, and the son, I guess it was, took the picture of the orb. And I was so amazed by her story, I even forgot to ask her to give me a copy of the picture.
How long ago was this?
This was like two years ago.
So fairly modern phone.
Yeah. It was an iPhone. They were from Northern California, and they drove up to this thing. And I'm just like, so what happened? She said it actually sat there and did this like a heartbeat, getting bigger and smaller. Whoa. And then she said it just kind of went back out the way it came in. And she goes... What are they? You were on the task force. Don't you know about these things?
And I was like, whoa, you know, we're not omnipotent. We're trying to learn just like you are. And every year I've been back there twice now. And every year I go, hey, if those two ladies are in here, can we talk? And they haven't shown back up. But he sounded just like your story of what happened to this other individual.
Yeah, he was the only guy that was compelling. There was a bunch of other people that had goofy stories of bulletproof wolves that appeared out of the mist and like, okay. They just seemed like some people just wanted to be on TV, which is normal, right? You show up with cameras, people tell stories. And this is another show that I worked on once.
It was called Game Show in My Head, and this is pretty funny. We told people so there was a the game show was we would take a contestant the contestant knew that they're gonna pull pranks on people but they didn't know what the prank was gonna be and so we had a piece in their ear and we would put them out in the public and My thing was that I had to tell them that they are a news reporter
And that someone had just seen a UFO and had an encounter with an alien right there in Hollywood. But the person who was the witness took off. Would you be willing to go on camera and say it was you? And everybody said yes. They all did. And people had crazy stories. They talked about being abducted and being on the ship and experience. And they were communicating with me.
They just fully made up stories. And that was an eye-opener for me. I was like, wow, you put a camera on people. They just are so hyped to be on TV. They just bullshit you. Yeah, they can. Because the guy who was in on it was shocked, too. Because he was like, I can't believe that these people just started fucking lying. Yeah.
When you get ingrandized like that, that's where you kind of have people that do that. It's just to ingrandize or enlarge themselves. Sure.
Everybody wants to – especially when you put a camera on people.
And with other people like the whistleblowers I know, they've pretty much given up everything like me.
Well, this guy was not interested in –
much attention he just wanted to tell us his story and he was a regular dude like we talked about all kinds of stuff he had a big trout on his wall he had a trout like when they make trophies out of fish they don't really make trophies anymore now what they do is they take a photo and the measurements and then they make like a plastic version of that fish that looks exactly like it that's how they do it but this guy had like a real trophy fish that he had mounted I'm like they don't even do that anymore so I started asking him questions yeah that's it
Wow. A long time ago. But the point is this guy was a sincere dude. He was telling me how he caught the fish. When I'm asking people questions about stuff, I want to know how you think. When I'm talking to some guy that tells me he had an encounter with an orb, I want to hear what you talk about. How do you talk about you at work? How do you talk about you with your kids?
How do you treat your dog? You know what I'm saying? I'm trying to get a gauge of this guy. He seems super sincere. Just a regular good guy, very accommodating, very friendly.
You would have made a good analyst. Maybe. Because the thing that we're trying to do as the all-source analyst is to look at all aspects of what happened. And sometimes people just go in there, well, I mean, the thing that really upsets me is when I was part of the task force was someone just handing me a picture and just going, so what is it?
Oh, right, right, right.
No context, no nothing. You're just like...
Okay.
It can't be fake. I don't know what the fuck that is.
Let me put it through the image analyzer.
I don't know if you've had any mental issues. Right, right. I mean, someone showed me something that it was a button on a glass. And at first I was like, that looks really intriguing. But there was something about it that was just, it wasn't quite right. And I'm like, I think this is fake, but I don't know why. And then finally the guy said, yeah, you know, button on a glass, you know.
That's the thing that, do you know that feeling? Have you ever seen photos of miniature cars?
Yes. There's that autistic kid that does that really good pictures.
I was just looking at that yesterday. Yeah. But what I was getting at, there's something wrong with the car that even in a photo you know it's not a real car. Yes. You know it's a miniature car. Your brain is very good at that. That's a real weird one because it doesn't make sense. Like there's a perception. You look at it like, oh, that's a miniature car. That's a fake.
That's like a Hot Wheel because they're really good now. Pull up a photo of like a miniature Mustang.
There's an autistic kid out there that – That's all he does. That's all he does. He gets miniature cars and puts them in a real background.
Oh, I've seen that. Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah. So these are miniatures? Yeah, those are fake.
Okay.
Well, that's really good.
That's really good.
That's a lot better than normal.
Yeah, but you can see the tires are not resting flat like there's weight to the car.
Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point.
See, those are the things, as an analyst, you look at in the image. It's just you're looking at, you know, things like that.
Yeah, that's the kid, 13-year-old kid. There you go.
Oh, okay. So he's really good at it. He's really good. Because these look, other than what you said, Jay, that you don't see the weight of the tires. But, like, okay, that one right there, that Nissan, click on that one, the blue one. Yeah, that's a Nissan GT-R. I'm looking at that, and I'm like, that's a fake car. I don't know why. Yeah, that looks like a model. But why does it look like a model?
It's got to be that driver's window.
It's the decals to me. But everything looks pretty fucking good. Yes. Well, yeah, it looks good, but there's just little details that your mind is picking up on going, eh, it's not quite right.
Right. I mean, there's something about it, right? Like, what is that something about it?
This kind of falls into the area, too, of...
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When you do see a UAP, something about it is what's telling you that it's a UAP, but you're also looking in your mind's memory bank to say, this is fake, this can't be real because it's not doing X, it's not doing whatever. And then sometimes you end up going... It's just not real. I'm throwing it out of my head.
And then all of a sudden someone either tells you something that makes you go back and go, oh, my God, that thing did that. So maybe it was real. Or you see something about it, something weird about it that just triggers you and you're like, oh, OMG. And now... Your whole thing, your whole view on the whole universe is changing because you're like, I did see that.
That's one of the litmus tests I give people when they, you know, because I have a lot of people that ask me, can you vet this guy? He says he's had an encounter. And then I kind of go through the experience because, you know, the one that I had in the desert, there was a telepathic kind of a thing that happened during that conversation I had with that gentleman in the desert.
And there's parts of that that people have only really experienced it they actually know about.
Like the residual data that or information that's left behind in your own mind Because you're sharing a mind space and things like this and there's certain things that when I ask questions of people that you know Sometimes I can tell right then and there you weren't there, you know experience but the people that do describe it and I know that they're telling the truth and
There's certain characteristics about that communication type that you only get when you've been talking, no kidding, telepathically.
Right. Well, especially you as a person who's had an experience. Correct. You have something to gauge. There's certain things like in your field, like if you ran into a dude at the airport that was a faker. You know, there's a lot of guys that have put on like fake military outfits and pretend. And then they get questioned by real military.
Stolen valor. Yeah.
It's weird. Yeah. It is. But people are weird. People will make up crazy stories. So like when you're dealing with the craziest of crazy stories, which is UFOs have been in contact with me. I'm special. They chose me to talk to me.
I don't feel special at all. I was accidental.
Well, that's probably because it was a real story.
So when he first showed up, I was one of the first people to get his – He knows my whole history, man. When he first showed up, first thing I read through everything, I was like – hmm, I'm gonna have to run a background check on this guy.
Right, he might be kook.
Right, and then I was like, so I did the basics, and then I called up David Grush, and I was like, boy, do I have a doozy for you. I can't do anything with this guy because there's not enough here for me to do a thorough background check, but boy, you gotta listen to what this guy has to say. And from there, David took it on, and I was like, he came back to me and goes,
Well, this guy looks to be the real deal. And I was like, holy crap.
So we kind of teased that then. So let's get to your experience. Why don't you tell everybody what happened?
Just doing my job at Nellis. We had two things we did. We did the telephone monitoring. Where's Nellis? It's in Nevada. So I'm working at Nellis Air Force Base for the DET-3, and that's where the program – they have a shop of four guys. I was one of them that would go out and monitor for the program.
So anyway, the other side of my job was also doing monitoring for everybody else that wasn't in the program.
And when you say monitoring, what do you mean by that?
You're actually plugging into, just like you heard, tapping, telephones, all the telecommunications type. We made sure that we listened to radios, we listened to radio waves. All that. And we gather it all in. And what we're tasked to do is, you know, say a commander at Wright-Patterson, you know, we went to do it.
It's always a two-week mission mostly unless it's part of an operation like Desert Storm. And you stay for a month or two and then you change out teams. But two weeks is the standard. So we go two weeks to Wright-Patterson. We gather all the information we can on all the telecommunications means.
And we also have an OSI team that's trying to sneak in the doors and get into the facilities they shouldn't be at. just to test the security. And that's all we're there for. And at the end of the day, on the last Friday, we go in and we talk to the staff. And then about 90 days later, we put in a final report and give that, again, back to the staff. And that's kind of how we rolled. So...
We're going up range. For those kind of things, we don't do the telephone monitoring. When we go up range to the test range at Nellis, that was what we called red forcing. And what our job was there is we were also trained to do combat ops against our own pilots so that we could help them survive in a wartime environment. And that was done at the top of Black Mountain.
And we call that a little schoolhouse there. And then if you walk up another few yards, there's really those big golf ball-looking radars or satellite dishes were up at the very top. But anyway, that's where we were heading this one day. So we all packed up. We're in Beatty, Nevada, which is the Burrow Inn. I can tell you that's where we always hold up at.
And we take off from there every morning to go do the a.m. and the p.m. push. That's what you call it when... The war is on. You call it the push. So we had one in the morning called AM push, one in the afternoon, PM push. So we were all heading up for the AM push in a convoy. There's three vehicles, probably about three to four people per vehicle. I'm in the lead vehicle with the ranking guy.
He's driving and I'm right behind him. And then there's another gentleman in the passenger seat across from the driver. And then there's a young lady next to me. And we're all going up. And the ranking guy had been there the week before. And he had seen the craft fly by. And that one's out there on the internet. You can pull down the video. There's a report that goes along with it.
There's a video that we can watch right now? Right now, yeah. What would he search? Search for, let me think, Nellis Test Range UFO 1994. Wow. Who filmed this? This was filmed by the operators on the range because we're putting these pilots in a risky situation by playing war with them, but we're training them.
So if there is any kind of a mishap or a pilot or a plane goes down, everything needs to be recorded. So this is it right here? Yes. So this video is being taken by one of these cameras that's up on the range.
And along the bottom, you see that this is also trying to lock on to the craft so it can follow it as it goes in and out because this is the kind of way that you want to track if there's a craft that is having problems.
This is moving very erratically.
Right. So this is what the ranking guy saw.
Can I pause you for a second? This tracking, is this manual or is this like some sort of automated system?
It's an automated system.
So the automated system is having a hard time locking on to it.
Yeah, if it locks on, you'll see a big spike. And that means that it finally locks on. Right now it's trying to, but something is stopping it from locking on. And they think it was the craft.
And it's moving like crazy, side to side, all over it.
There's actually a recording that goes with it where you hear the guys going, hey, does anybody know what this is? What's going on here? Can we hear that?
Yeah. Oh, no.
Okay, the sound is terrible. They need better mics. Honestly, it has to be a podcast mic. Oh, I'm sure. But he's saying, what is that? I don't know. We're having a hard time locking on to it.
Right. This is the video operator. So the following week after this happens, this video is taken, the ranking guy who had been there the week before and saw this thing flying, He takes us in this, when you go on the range through this one gate here, it goes up a little ways, and then there's a containment area.
It's got a very small place where you can change your tires, get gas, you know, minor maintenance to get your butt home if you have a car that's busted. And then in the back of that cantonment area, there's two huts that look like campers, really, glorified campers. So the video operators are in the one that's off to the northeast of the cantonment, in the very corner of it.
And the ranking guy just says, we all have to go in here. We're going to go talk to the video operators. We have to do this. And this was because the week prior, everybody came back to Garrison or back to our unit, and they had seen this thing, and they were all talking about this UFO. So we go in there, and there's the video operator.
He has us all write our names down, whether we were there and saw it the first week or not. Then he makes us all sit down and watch that video. And he says, do you know what this is? And we're like, no. And then he just said, okay, thank you. And then after everybody that was there,
saw it and had wrote their name down we were allowed to leave and that was all that was required and um so i was like what was that all about but then as i'm exiting this lady that had been sitting against the wall on the far part of the uh this little hut that we were in and uh she like grabs my arm and she just says there's somebody on the range don't talk to him and she was really really freaked out
And I'm like, thanks, strange, freaky lady. Got it. And I'm like, whatever. So we all hop out. We get in the vehicles and then start taking off towards Quartz Mountain because right at that cantonment area, there's a hard right. There's a hard right that goes off to Quartz Mountain. And about a mile, half a mile to a mile down that road, it's all dirt road up, by the way, there's this guy.
It looks like he's wearing a uniform like we are.
got battle dress uniform on um so he's he's sees us and he starts to look like he's running and he's got this really weird run like his arms are kind of flailing behind him it's like he was running against the hurricane wind and it was like he was going to fall over at any time and i was like yeah it's a bit windy today but it ain't that bad so it looked really strange and then i began to notice his skin tone looked like he might be hypothermic and i'm thinking oh crap this dude's been out here it's freaking freezing out here
Because it was a very cold day and the wind was blowing. It was, you know, those cold days where it didn't matter how many layers you had on. And so as we're getting closer, I'm talking to the ranking guy. Hey, we need to slow down. So anyway, I'm thinking this guy's probably in big trouble. I need to pull off my jacket. I need to give him something to get warm.
So I'm starting to do that, and we're approaching, and by the time I get my jacket most of the way off, he's right there at the corner of the front of the car.
So he looks pale? Is that what you're saying?
He looked like an albino with a very bluish kind of undertone.
So you're assuming, you're immediately associating that with he's freezing, right?
Yeah, because that's all I could equate it to. And then as I'm starting to open my door to try to administer aid to this guy, the dude in the front passenger seat screams he's got no ears. And I thought that was pretty rude because I was like the guy's in trouble.
Does he have a hat on?
He's got a hat on, and he's got BDUs that look absolutely clean, pristine. And when you're up range, you do not wear your cleanest uniform ever. You're in a dirty environment. You wear your scuffed up boots. You don't take them with you.
So he's got a clean battle dress uniform.
United States military uniform. Very out of place. Yeah, it looks very out of place when I finally do it. But anyway, I step out onto the roadway. And this guy screams that he's got no ears. And I just think it's really rude. And then I close the door and I look up and he's got no freaking ears. And his eyes are twice as big. And I just am like, yeah, what the hell did I just walk into?
This guy's not from around here. How far away from him are you? Probably from me to Logan. Just a few feet? Yeah, just a few, just talking distance. Okay. And I'm starting to freak out, but then he starts to talk to me and it's not my language, but it's coming to, the understanding is like coming into my mind about every word he's saying.
So he's actually saying words?
He's saying words, but it doesn't sound like anything I've heard before.
But you're understanding what he's saying.
But I'm understanding. So I know there's a telepathic thing going on here, and it calms me down at the same time because I'm having to respond to him. And he's like, hello, I'm having trouble with my craft. I need some repair material. Do you know where I could find some tritium? And this is what he's talking to me about. And I'm like, you mean titanium?
Because I didn't know anything about tritium at the time. But titanium, he's like, no, it's not it. And I'm like, well, at this point in my career, I had just left the program. So I knew where Dreamland was. And I pointed to the mountain range because you can see for days in the desert. But I pointed towards the mountain range and I said, Dreamland's just over there.
And this wave of emotion hit me like disgust, like I am not going to talk to those barbarians and murderers.
Wow, so he was saying that to you, like his reaction to going to the military base.
Exactly, yeah. But he did not like it. He said, I am not going to talk to those people. And I was like, well, shoot. And it was barbarians and murderers? He literally, that was what he called them, yes. And mentally, that's what it was. But the emotion. Trintium, is this a real thing? Well, that's what I've had a lot of friends.
There's analysts also that were on the top secret network that were trying to help me understand what material.
We're throwing everything at him. We're like, is it this? Is it this? And he's like, no. That's the one.
When they hit Trintium, I was like, that's what it was. That's what he said. What is tritium? It's a type of – well, can he bring it up on the – Yeah, sure. Yeah, because it should pop up on Wikipedia pretty quick. But it has some properties that probably would work.
Are you saying tritium? Yeah, tritium is – that's the stuff that's in lume, like in your watch when your watch glows. That's – or, you know, they make those where they – they're basically radioactive isotopes that stay lit. So, like, if you get, like, a Marathon watch, Marathon makes military watches, and it doesn't need, like, this watch.
You need the light, and the light charges the lume, and then when it's dark out, you can read the hands for, like, a few hours. It's the thing that they used to put on the end of the guns, right? Exactly. They still do. Like, SIG has them on their guns.
Look up tritium also. Put an end in there.
Tritium is just a lot. I did that. That's not giving me much. So tritium, chunky glow in the dark glitter. What is that? These are game websites. Oh, I see.
I don't know. Okay, so what is tritium? I may be mispronouncing it.
But tritium, that's that radioactive isotope. That's the stuff that emits light.
Yep.
So it emits a weak form of radiation.
Yes.
A rare radioactive isotope of hydrogen with a half-life of 12.3 years.
Mm-hmm.
Okay. Okay.
So this is what he's asking me for.
So he's asking you for that stuff? Tritium? Yep. And I'm like, I don't know where to get that. Oh, look at that. It's used in boosted fission weapons and thermonuclear weapons. Oh, great. That sounds pretty sure. I wonder what the fuck it's doing on your wrist.
This is the best image that we have of what he could have looked like. Oh, boy. Can you send that to Jamie? Yeah, I don't know Jamie's number, but we'll find a way to...
Yeah.
Is that an iPhone? If I had my phone, I would, but it's out there, I think.
Yeah, airdrop it to Jamie. Do you know how to do that?
How dare you not know how to do that? Your guy works with UFOs. You better know how to do that. Well, there's a three-dimensional image of the craft as well that is really spot on from what I saw that day. Yeah? Because not only did I see this guy running towards us and talking to him, but off the shoulder on the north side of the roadway,
That's where the craft was just resting on the desert floor. And I got a really good look at it at that point. And this guy did a 3D rendering of the description, and it's spot on as I've ever seen. It's almost perfect.
So he asks you for tritium. You tell him this is what it looked like.
This is what the guy looked like, pretty close to it. The nose was a little bit rounder on the end, but that was a really good rendition. But yeah, his eyes almost came out to here on the temple.
Wow. And that would freak me out.
It freaked me out. I mean, honestly, I'm not an easy guy to get freaked out. But that really put that, like you just saw an alligator.
pop up out of the water kind of thing right so when you tell him go to dreamland it says I'm not going to go where those murderers and barbarians are and then what happens and he said no so I was like well where else can I possibly point him to because I'm like I don't know any metallurgists or whatever and
So I'm thinking to myself, and I related to him, I said, well, I'm taking classes down in the city of Vegas, Las Vegas, at the community college. But I have a geophysical professor that I'm taking a class from. Maybe he has a metallurgist friend.
So you're thinking at this time, though, it's a metal.
I am, yes.
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This is the 3D image with the craft.
That is almost as spot on as I've ever seen. That is about it right there. That's almost exactly what I saw resting on the desert floor.
And so you're trying to find different people that you can connect this being to. Yeah. And what is it saying to you?
He thought that that was a good idea, I think. Or he was like, hmm. He had that kind of, hmm. And he wanted to take action. So he doesn't really even say goodbye. He just kind of turns and off he goes back to his craft. Yeah. And I'm thinking, well, okay. And I get back in the car. And sometime during that conversation with this entity, I remembered looking over at my friends in the car.
And they had the weirdest look on their face, like they were all zonked out, totally zombied. Like they couldn't even – they were just drooling on themselves.
Were they just because they were flabbergasted or was it because something was going on?
Well, I've figured out that maybe it was done by this entity because none of them seem to even remember the incident. Only a few people seems to remember that we stopped, that we had talked to somebody on the roadway, but it was mainly the people that were in the back of the convoy.
So they didn't see it up close like you did.
Right, like we did.
So how far away would they be?
They'd probably be a good two car lengths behind us.
That's still enough to detect whether or not someone looks blue though, right?
Correct. And that's probably what they saw. But you know me. I'm kind of wide and I'm big. I was very muscular back then. And you're standing in front of this thing. So they'd have a difficult time because this guy stood about a good half foot shorter than me. And so they probably could see his arms from time to time, maybe get a glimpse of his face or something.
So they probably didn't get a very good view because if you're looking at me, I'm standing right next to my door. And they're behind me kind of almost obfuscated by just the angle that they're looking at him. So all the windows are tinted in those vehicles, and they can't just see through the windows right to whatever's on the left-hand side.
And the people that were in the car with you, you feel like something happened to them that, like, froze them?
They did look like that, yeah. Like you said, just a look of just utter, like, ugh.
The guy who said he has no ears, does that guy have a recollection? That guy they can't find. They can't find him.
No. I was asked by the UEP task force, David Grush, to reach out to these folks, the people in the car. I got a hold of one, got a hold of him on LinkedIn, and we started talking. And, you know, just, hey, how's the wife? How's the kids? That kind of stuff.
How about that UFO we met?
And as soon as I did that, the guy just disappears and ghosts me. And I can't, I don't know what happened. But he was the Rankin guy in the car. The guy that was the passenger, nobody can seem to find him because they did try to verify the people in the car and I gave the names.
And the young lady that was off to my right, I don't know if they contacted her, but I've heard from other people that were part of this background investigation about my story. They found two people that verified my story. And I don't know who they are. They've been told to keep their mouths shut by somebody. And I'm kind of pissed about that.
But I think James Fox knows who they are and knows exactly who told them to shut up as well.
But... What was that incident where James Fox and you were on a show? What's that?
I shouldn't have said that James Fox knows the guy who told him to shut up because I'm not sure if that's true. You think you might know.
So this thing, does it tell you why it needs the tritium? It just says it needs it to fix its craft? Yeah.
Well, along with that, this is the other part that was telepathic. When he mentions this metal and the part that is... But it's not metal, right?
Do we think it's not metal or do you think maybe it's a metal that we don't have?
I think it's something or an alloy that we don't particularly make a lot of and or just can't make. But when he spoke about this, the telepathic image was almost like he opened a Sears catalog in my head that had all the specs for this part that he was needing fixed. And it was the strangest thing.
It like described some of the nano channeling of electrical and electromagnetic stuff that was flowing through it that caused these toroidal energies to emanate on both sides of this piece of the equipment.
So you, because it was describing it to you, you all of a sudden had access to all this information.
Yeah, he just put it into your head. It was like me, if you and I were telepathic and we were talking about a science project. And he just uploaded all the information.
Yeah, and I could just give you all that instead of talking it out. That's what he did. Did you then try to talk to someone and relay that information and like download it?
I've had, well, once, because in the forum, we have scientists and stuff like that that, yes, were very interested to get me in a room and talk to me about this. I had people from DARPA wanting to talk to me, people from threats, departments all over the place that wanted to know more. And even when I talked to Jack Serfati and Gary Nolan about this stuff,
Um, I was telling them things before they even opened their mouth about like when I talked to Gary Nolan, I just said, you got that part and you know that it has that, that nano size, uh, atomic level layering that can't be reproduced unless you actually physically are putting these atoms one at a time next to each other. And he's like, yeah, yeah, that's it. You know?
So I'm telling him this and he already knew. But that was the first thing. And so that's why I knew that what I'd been given in my head, he was giving me that high sign that, yes, that's exactly what I analyzed is that piece of material I had. It sounds just like what this guy described to you and gave to you telepathically.
that there's these really minute little things that create toroidal forces. They're doing things at a very small level. And then I talked to Jack Serafati later, and he's got all these fantastical physics equations about how things work. And I'm looking through his documents, and no, I can't do the math, but I can understand what he's doing with it.
And I just flat out asked him, I said, so the smaller you get, because there's always that resistance level when it comes to, you know, putting in energy and then losing it due to, you know, atrophy and all these other, or is that the right word for it? Anyway, the whole thing was just that when you get smaller, it actually reverses itself.
is that now you get even more power out of things if you have a small enough energy source that works at a very – it's kind of like miniaturizing a fusion device of some kind.
And so did you talk to someone from DARPA? You said these people wanted to talk to you?
I emailed back and forth. I gave them what information I could. They didn't want to interview you? They wanted to just email? Yeah. At the time, that's the way it went, yeah. I've had a couple of meetings, though, at different places that I can't discuss, but they did talk to me, yes.
And is that information still in your head?
Yeah.
So does it seem like a memory, or what does it seem like in your head? To me, it's like a very clear, like, this is...
It's just like a picture that never goes away.
Could you draw that picture if someone gave you a pad and a pen?
Yeah, I've already done it, yeah. Yeah?
Is that available online? Can someone see that?
I don't know if I pulled that down off the top secret network, but I can reproduce it. All I did was just recreate it in like a PowerPoint draw thing.
But does it remain in your head like normal memory? Like, you know, like you learn certain things in school and they stay in your head.
The telepathy felt absolutely normal. I mean, there was no headache. There's no dizziness, no buzzing.
What I mean is, is the memory the same as a regular memory or is it clear? Yeah.
No, I remember it as just being part of the conversation, just like a normal conversation. That's what it feels like.
But it just somehow or another in that conversation, he put this information in your head. And then it just leaves?
And then he leaves when he realizes that, you know, maybe there's some other venues. Maybe me mentioning that there might be a metallurgist on staff somewhere that maybe that prompted him to think, oh, yeah, maybe I should go research this or that. And then maybe I'll find somebody that I could talk to. Something like that may have happened.
Did you get a sense of where this thing was from?
Yeah, there was a star map from that day, but it also relates to the lunch hour after we started going back up to Black Mountain. I had a very strong compunction to go eat my lunch outside, even though it was deathly cold. And I don't know what prompted me to do that again. Maybe he was giving me a telepathic message.
But after I walked about 150 feet down the road, the dirt road from the top of Black Mountain, I don't remember what happened after that. All I have are two images that keep on flashing back. I remember seeing the schoolhouse from about 150 feet above or 200 feet above the schoolhouse. I remember looking at the rooftop. And the only other memory is I've got this star map in my head.
And David Grush made me reproduce that on a PowerPoint slide. And I handed that in to him because I have no idea what it was. But he's like, do you understand what this is? And I was like, no, I have no idea. He's like, do you know what star constellations are? I said, I know what the Big Dipper is. That's about it. And he's like, this is the constellation Leo.
And I'm like, oh, I didn't know that. And so he's like, yeah, this is a really close rendition of that. And I'm like, well, that's kind of cool that I could reproduce it just out of my head. and not even know what the heck it was. But I did know it was a star system.
And for some reason you just felt compelled to draw this particular star system.
Well, just after David Grush asked me to, yes.
And was there a specific planet in that star system?
Yeah, the red star that's kind of like, you know, there's a part of the Leo system that has like this very sharp turn into it. I guess it looks like a nose or part of a triangle. And at the tip of that is the red star, and it's reticuli, I think. But anyway, that one seemed to peak.
Isn't that what they always say about aliens, zeta reticuli? Yeah.
And then the strangest thing about this, this is what I'm talking about when it comes to telepathy, when you're sharing that mind space, there's some residue memory there. Because Dave kept pressing me on it, and he said, can you tell me about the red star? And at first I'm like, well, no. And I was like – and all of a sudden some memory came back, and I was like – Holy crap.
Yeah, that's where he's from. That's his home star system. And he came from there. That's his home. And then we just went on from there. And he said, did you know that they've actually just now discovered a few years ago that there's exoplanets around that star? And I was like, no, I had no idea. So all these things started coming together at that point.
And that's when they started saying, OK, well, we're going to do some more vetting. And within about a month or so, they were bringing me to Congress and everything else happened after that.
Now. What is the rest of your life like after that day? So you have life before you experience this creature and then now you know that this is a thing.
It's a thing, yeah. And it changed me. How do you explain this? If you can imagine the entire human race, you and me, you don't have to talk to me, but you can feel my presence. You can feel who I am, my personality and share in all of that. And then imagine that by millions, the entire planet, you can actually commune with them.
It brings with that a level of civility in the control of your thoughts, because right now we don't read each other's minds. So our minds are like, Oh, look at that girl. Oh, look at that, you know, the sports over here. There's a football game on. We're so distracted. But this guy's – when I was engaged with him telepathically, it was like civility to the maximum. It was like very courteous.
He waited for me to say. He'd talk. And it was like – just like we do. We have certain etiquette. But on top of that, there was this part of him – that he left me with that was part of the community of the consciousness that he is able to feel all the time. And that has never left me is that there's a community of consciousness out there that
When they've been living for so many years with this sort of ability, it has changed them for the better because their minds are under control finally. Their emotions aren't running them like you were talking about addictions and things like this. They don't run their lives like that anymore because of it. And if you do, they end up on a criminal list somewhere, I would imagine.
But there was such a – ever since then, that feeling of peacefulness and civility is what I've strived for. Never has left me. Never has left me.
Whoa. Um, it stays with you, but what, like, what is your experience trying to relay these thoughts in this experience that had to be weird in the sense that like, it's very hard to believe. I mean, I believe you, but it's very, it's, it's one of those things where, you know, you did what you talk to an alien. Like that's most people are going to think you're ridiculous. Yeah.
Well, yeah, and honestly, that's why I need people to back me up on it, because this is the thing that we're trying to do with the whistleblowers. We all kind of know each other, just like Lo would tell you, or not Lo, but just like Logan would tell you, just that, I call him Lo for short sometimes. It's a slip-up. Understandable.
Anyway, so anyway, we get to talking about stuff, but we don't know what's going on daily with each other. It's like I've brought whistleblowers forward to Congress since I went forward. But I don't know their lives. I don't talk to them every day like I do some of them. And it's a strange thing.
But the more we seem to be coming out now that we've got these few weeks now where we've got folks like, you know, Jake Barber and folks like that coming forward. Now I'm starting to piece things together in my mind because now I'm hearing his side of the story because I didn't want to be part of the retrieval. Well, guess what? He was on it. And he's telling that part.
And I'm like, oh, no wonder they did that to me. Oh, that's that makes sense. You know, now I'm making those conclusions now because of what he said.
But then if you try to put us all in a room, we're all deathly scared that some jerk is going to come out of the Department of Defense and shoot us all or do a drone strike on us and kill us all and just have done with it and then get on with their lives again. So you've got this problem here with us coming forward in a group.
You're really worried that much that someone would try to take you out?
They've already messed with my clearance. They've already shown me that they can break into my car on the NSA campus. They're letting me know. They were trying to intimidate me. Because they don't want you talking about this. Exactly.
But do you know why they don't want you talking about this?
Yeah. Why? It's because they know that what they have done, that there are some parts of it that were really bad decisions in the long run. And they don't want anybody to crack open any part of this because they know it's going to cause questions to happen. And they're going to get put on the spot. Okay. So you finally are coming clean on the fact that we've got NHI here.
But we've got other whistleblowers that have these concerns. That's what they're going to have to face.
And when you say bad decisions, what do you mean by bad decisions?
Well, think about it. If Roswell did happen, what would they do? They'd chop up some, you know. Think about it. You'd have etiquette if it was a Russian craft that fell. You'd catalog every part of that crash site. And you'd repatriate the dead bodies to where they came from. We'd give them back to the Russians in honor. And here we are. We've got a civilization just crashed there in Roswell.
And look at what kind of crap we did to them. And we took all their stuff like it was some kind of a treasure trove. And now we own it? Hell no. You're talking about a craft that was manufactured on another part of the galaxy or something that they can't explain. Nobody knows where it came from. And here they are treating these people like they're just some kind of a lab experiment.
Let's chop him up a little more, you know? And then, you know, if they ever got approached by the people that came to look for them afterwards, I wouldn't want to be the person that answered them, well, I'm sorry we chopped up your buddy.
We had an interesting talk about this. There's a video online where it shows, like, some gray kind of strung up, and they're asking him questions and whatever. And I was asking him, I said... If you were in NHI and you saw that, and this is what the humans are broadcasting. Sorry. It's okay. And this is what the humans are broadcasting. I said... I'd be like, yo, they got Jimmy.
Look what they're doing to Jimmy. Right. It's on. We're going to Earth. We're going to go get Jimmy back.
But that video of the alien, that's fake, right? The video where they're interrogating some gray?
I truly believe it is fake because like we've- It looks so fake. Everybody says- It looks like a puppet. Yeah. They talk telepathically. And here he is. Oh, here's this voice coming out to whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It's- So we've always assumed that they've got the same type of – some type of emotions, a lot like us, but maybe they're much more controlled, much more refined.
Kind of like how we can – not that I'm saying – Kind of like us now versus us 50,000 years ago. Yeah.
Well, honestly, when I had the telepathic experience, it was very difficult for me to distinguish what emotions and feelings were coming from me as opposed to him. It was very obvious when he felt disgust about going to ask about things because I was like, well, I'm not disgusted at him. And I had that ability to go. That's not me feeling that it must be coming from him. Right.
But it was your emotions. Right. But everything else felt like we were sharing literally not only the thoughts, but the emotions that went along with it. It was a true sharing of a mind space. And he felt just like me. His inner voice is just like my inner voice. His feelings are just like our feelings. He feels sadness. He feels all the things that I do.
What is the general consensus in the people on the program about Roswell? They don't like talking about it.
I think that was where they probably are trying to bury it even amongst themselves because they know they made some very bad mistakes about that first confrontation that could have been a lot better than what happened.
So the general consensus is that this is a real event. Yeah. And they don't like talking about it. But does everybody sort of agree or are there people that are dissenting? Do they have dissenting opinions about whether or not it was a crash UFO?
I've heard people say they don't want to talk about it.
They don't want to talk about it, but that it wasn't ours.
right they know well the only thing this is again when we talk about the intel analysts and everybody else that was on that forum it's it's it's totally weird that you can go through all these different things as an intel analyst and say okay it's not china all right it's not that all right let's look at russia anything nope it's not russian is it one of ours well hell no it's not one of ours well who the heck is it then
Does anybody talk about it? Is there anybody that has shared information about Roswell to you? Yeah. Is there anything that you could talk about?
No.
No. No. It's all top secret. I just gave the person the confidence that I would not mention it. Got it. Got it. And Logan, have you had personal experiences other than the one when you were a child?
Yeah. But I didn't know what I was seeing. But, you know, like after the program came out, I mean, not came out, but after James Fox finished editing everything, he says, well, you haven't seen everything put together. So here you go. And, you know, tell me if you don't like the way you look or whatever. Yeah.
and I'm going through it, and he starts showing, I see the stuff about Calvin, the Calvin Scotland image. Have you seen that one? Yes, yes. So that image was taken, if I remember correctly, in August 1990.
Pull that image up, Jamie. Thank you.
You can just type in Calvin UFO whatever. So I had just cross-trained from, yeah, that one. I had just cross-trained from... maintenance into intelligence, and I was going to my first intel assignment. And I'm flying from Philadelphia to Frankfurt, Germany, to Rheinland Air Base. Somewhere between Iceland and Scotland, This thing is zipping around in the clouds doing this ziggy-zaggy thing.
I don't know what it was doing, but it was doing this. The sun was just coming up, and I'm eating a Philly cheesesteak, and the other guy who's with me is eating a hoagie, and the other guy that's standing up over the top, I'm like, anybody know what that is? And they're like, dude, what is that? And then all of a sudden in my head, I'm like, oh, this is my first Intel assignment.
I'm going to get clued into some cool ass shit. But I don't know what the hell that is. But I'm just thinking it looks just like that. It looks just like that. And the way it was moving in the clouds, it was like because the shadow was like going from like that color to like dark. And then light again as it was moving in. And it would go into a cloud on one vector and come out on another vector.
And I'm like, what is that? So didn't know what was going on. So I called James back. I was like, dude, dude, where is this? Talk to me. We're all excited. And he goes, explain to me everything. And what happened was I got to my unit. And I talk to them and I go, we have a weapons tactics guy. He's, you know, they're the best of the best and they're leading the group.
And I was like, so what is that thing out there? And he goes, I have no idea what you're talking about. Now, this is in January of 1990. That picture is August of 1990. And what I didn't realize was that the Belgian wave, I don't know if you're familiar with that, a whole bunch of triangular devices were seen over Belgium for almost a whole year. So they just call it the Belgian wave.
Right.
Police officers saw it. They launched F-16s after him, whatever.
Are there photographs of that at all?
No, but the general that's in charge actually gave a briefing to everybody and showed what the F-16 radar was seeing. And I guess every time they tried to get close to it, it would just pull away just far enough, you know, that they couldn't catch it. And then when they would try to cage it in the radar system, it would move to the left. You know, it was playing with them. So...
But I didn't know any of that. So I just kind of was like, yeah, OK, I'm stupid. Maybe it was part of my imagination. But what I saw as a kid kept coming back into my head. So dead the storm happens, whatever. And I'm at my base and British AWACS shows up. And they're looking at me, and I still had my accent, my British accent. They're looking at me going, what are you flying with the Yanks for?
And I go, what do you mean? They said, you know, and I told them my family thing. They said, why don't you come fly with us? I'm like, sure. Let me ask my boss. My boss says, you ain't got nothing going on. Go fly with them. So we're flying around, and finally I go, hey, guys. What's up? what's that thing in the sky that does the ziggy-zaggy thing? Do you know what I'm talking about?
And they're like, you know. And I was like, no, I don't know. Don't play with me. And they're like, come on, Logan, you know. And then finally they pull out this tape and they plug it in and it shows Europe, all the aircraft flying around. And you see this thing go through the middle of it real fast, like all the other aircraft, the sweep of the radar, you're just seeing these minute movements.
This thing is like, it's gone. And I was like, who's that? And they go, you do. I was like, look, stop playing with me. Come to find out, they said, well, that's your SR-71. And I was like, well, that ain't him. And they're like, okay. And then he looks at the other guy and he said, show him the other one.
And they show me this radar scoping in, and this time there's a target in the middle of, not in the middle of the screen, but off to the side. It was like, could have been like East Germany or whatever. But every sweep of the radar, he was somewhere else. And I was like, that guy. I was so excited. I said, that MF right there. Yeah. Who's that guy? And they go, you know.
I was like, look, stop this. I don't know. And they finally said, we don't know either. They said, we just assumed it was you Americans playing with us. We don't know. That's what happens a lot of times. Yeah.
We don't know who this guy is. Our adversaries think that too. Everything's America if they can't explain it.
Right. Did you see the Trump administration address the drones today?
We heard about it, but I didn't see it.
Yes, I had a friend tell me they made an announcement, but we were getting in the car at the time. Essentially, they said it was all ours, and there was some sort of scanning that was done that was approved, and the other ones were hobbyists. And there was some sort of test that they were doing, but they were saying that it's ours, which is very—the whole thing stinks.
It does. It stinks. It's a poor explanation. Yeah. I actually had— A person that was up there and she said one of those things came down low and slow over our house. And she said it had the sound of a helicopter. So she was like her and her husband were like, oh, you know, it's a helicopter. But then all of a sudden they realized she said, Mr. Logan, were you ever air crew?
I said, yeah, I was in special ops and I flew on helicopters and da da da da. And she goes. When it came down low, it had the sound of a helicopter, but you couldn't feel it. And I go, huh? She goes, you know when you can feel the rotor wash and it's hitting you in your chest? She said there was none of that. She said it came down slow, low over her house, and then it went back up.
And then she said it looked like it went back into formation with something else. And she said... That's not any drone I know of. And she said it sounded like the actual noise of the helicopter and several of the other noises from the drones were all prerecorded just to make them sound like they were conventional aircraft.
And those are the same things I've been hearing, too, because a lot of people are shoving videos at me a lot in their descriptions of things. And some of the stuff, you know... looked like maybe it could be a spotlight from a helicopter, and then when the light moved, then you could finally see the helicopter behind the light. Then there was these other ones that was like, this is really weird.
My friend Mark saw one. Mark Norman, how did he describe it, Jamie? He said it was triangular, right? I just remember him saying SUV size. Yeah, he said it was the size of an SUV. He said it was triangular. He said it moved really fast.
So when they initially came out, they said, oh, they're all manned. All right. I think it was John Kirby that was the speaker. And I used to work at the FAA. So my first thing was, well, if they're manned, you just call them up and say, cut it out.
Right.
Simple. Right. But it kept going on. And then later on, there was a report that DHS said. oh, one of the drones has come down in a mall parking lot, but DHS has assessed it's just a regular drone. So when you hear that, what are you thinking? DJI Mavic, something small, whatever.
Someone on X is on a train going by that exact same spot, and they show a drone next to two police cars, and this thing is as big as the police car. And I'm like, so I have no way of confirming if that's what it really was.
Right.
But I have no reason to believe that this particular person was leaving. He said, he goes, I don't know what you guys are thinking, but I'm passing that mall right now, and take a look. And it's like maybe a 30-second clip or something, and you see this thing. It's as big as the SUVs.
And what does it look like?
It looked kind of like a gondola with large blades on the four corners.
So it looks like a very large conventional drone.
Very large conventional drone. And so I'm sitting there thinking... Was this a test that nobody knew about? What is going on? And nobody got any answers.
Well, the other thing is they could stay in the sky for like five hours at a time.
That's what puzzles me is that that takes industrial-sized power generation.
Yeah, what are you using? Like what is that thing using? Jamie, can you see the – right, cold fusion. Can you find the video of the disclosure today? It was –
While he's talking about the disclosure, the one thing I do want to mention is when I talked to that AWACS group, I thought it was kind of interesting because I said, so how many know about this? And he goes, the whole squadron knows about it. And I was like, what? He says, yeah, but we just don't talk about it because people lose their jobs over this. And I was like, I've heard that as well.
And I was like, so this is an AWAC. And I said, am I to assume that if you're a British AWAC, then American AWACs can see it, French AWACs can see it, NATO AWACs can see it? And he just kind of, yeah.
And everybody doesn't know what it is. No one's talking about it.
And everybody just says it's got to be America.
Let's hear what this lady says.
And before I turn to questions, I do have news directly from the President of the United States that was just shared with me in the Oval Office from President Trump directly, an update on the New Jersey drones. After research and study, the drones that were flying over New Jersey in large numbers were authorized to be flown by the FAA for research and various other reasons.
Many of these drones were also hobbyists, recreational, and private individuals that enjoy flying drones. In time, it got worse due to curiosity. This was not the enemy. A statement from the President of the United States to start this briefing with some news.
The part that gets me is the hobbyists being included in that.
Well, they definitely were hobbyists too because there was hobbyists in Austin around that time. There was a ton of drones. It was like people were like, whoa, it's a drone party. Everybody was like – everybody with drones was just flying them around. Okay. Well, that kind of makes sense.
It kind of makes sense because there was so much drone activity. Here's the thing that I – I got to look at it from an analyst point of view. The first thing that came up, I was like – so they knew this the whole time. Why couldn't they have said that from the very beginning?
It's a different administration.
Right. Right. And then two, why were they required to have a skiff briefing on drones? Nobody's ever answered that. At one point, Congress guys all went into a skiff and got a skiff briefing on drones.
And then they didn't have a press conference about the results. Right. Which would have been – could it be that they wanted to see what happens when you fly things over a metropolitan area and you fly a bunch of drones over highly populated parts of the country?
I would think that –
Well, the hobbyists are including themselves, right?
Yeah, and that could just be that they're accidentally there. But the feds, what were they doing? And why would they have a SCIF?
That's my point. Explain a SCIF to people that don't know what we're talking about. A SCIF is a place for information above secret. And it's a special compartmented intelligence facility where we can go in there and talk about things that are above the secret.
And there's no recording devices.
No phones, no nothing. Right. But the thing is this. I mean, most of us that are in the intelligence community or whatever, we're going to look at it and say something's not quite right here because this is something domestic happening over the U.S. So would it really require a SCIF?
Especially if it's authorized.
Right.
Correct.
So would it really require that level of security to go on and have these guys talk? It just doesn't make any sense.
The federal presence to me dictates the fact that if this was innocuous and unclassified, Like you were saying, why was there not a press conference that described it and said the hobbyists are out there flying too and they're just kind of interfering with our lanes where we go and fly normally between one place to another? That never came out. So why was the SCIF even mentioned?
That's something that they did release in the press is that they were receiving briefings that were in a classified environment.
And then there's still the problem with these drones popping up all over the world, especially over military facilities. And that part's not been addressed. It's just the other stuff that they, you know. Right.
That was Wright-Patterson Air Force Base had to get closed down, right?
Wright-Patterson, Langley Air Force Base, there's others. And then there's reports of stuff in Australia. There's reports of things in other places in the world.
Let me ask you this and tell me if this makes sense. If you were the government and you knew that there were non-human intelligence that were operating vehicles above our cities, would a way to sort of obfuscate that to launch a bunch of our drones as well? and have some shit that you could explain and then tell people, don't worry about it. It was just drones. It was our drones.
Like, see, here's our drone. Here's a drone that crashed. Look, it's got propellers. Normal drone. Yeah, it's big, but it's normal.
You have no idea how many people have said that already. Yeah. You're going in the right direction.
Yeah, you've heard that one. You've heard the other theory. They're looking for a dirty nuke. Right. They're looking for HPT.
That one scared the shit out of me.
Yeah, I did, too. Honestly, I thought that's what it was about. But then they have what looking for HVTs, like anti-terror or looking for terrorist groups, because we were I think at that time it went through the press that there was over a thousand of these, you know, jihadists that were in our midst. We don't know where they're at. Right. You know, kind of thing. Maybe they're looking for those.
Those are so those are just some of the theories that you come up with with this kind of a scenario.
And then there was the guy – the congressman that said, oh, there's an Iranian mothership out there. And we were like, what?
In the ocean.
Yeah. None of this stuff was making any sense. And then you have to wonder – Where was he getting his intel? Because if it's that crappy, those people need to be fired.
Well, you got to take another thing into the calculus and that is wasn't this worldwide? I mean we got reports from China even that this stuff was happening. Right. And they don't just have hobbyists flying stuff around in their country.
Maybe they don't. Right. Maybe they have a much tighter control over their media so they don't have to obfuscate. They don't have to –
Yeah. Trick us. That's the one part that I find very confusing is just like if it's happening in Europe and China and all these other places, what really is going on?
You could have just done a NOTAM and just said, hey, we're going to be doing a test in this area. Don't want to scare anybody or whatever, but we're just going to do a test in this area.
If it's just ours. Yeah. Right. But if it's not ours and there's a bunch of shit flying around there and we want to confuse people, wouldn't you have a bunch of conventional drones and fly them low over city so people could clearly see them?
It could have been done a totally different way and not had all this hubbub going on. So, yeah, you're right.
But why would you – if you know the truth, why would you leave the Americans afraid of what's flying over their head?
I think there's still, look, assuming you guys are completely accurate about all this, if they have had this information for a long time, I would assume that there's a lot of pressure to never release it. I think there's probably a lot of problems with lying to Congress.
lying to congress about budgets and allocation of resources for these programs that are all top secret like how have you done this what have you done who's responsible who made that call is that even legal and who are you that if you've been in contact with non-human intelligence and you have retrieved crafts who are you to keep that from the rest of the world exactly
And speak for the American government for that if you're not officially a part of it.
Especially if you're not officially – I mean you don't have the clearance to do what you're doing.
Right. I mean they're making decisions for the entire human race, not just America but the whole race. And that's what my beef was. When in the film, when James Fox asked me about that, well, why are you doing it? You know, kind of a thing. And I was like, well, I feel like this is the right of every man, woman and child on the face of the earth to know the truth about we're not alone.
That has nothing to do with the weapon systems and the classified parts that I know of. But the fact that we're not alone, shouldn't that be something that everybody should be invited to make their own decision on? Yeah.
Yeah, I would imagine that. But I would also imagine if you wanted to keep your job and if you have a high intelligence clearance and you're working for the government and you're a longtime career employee of the government, you want to keep moving up the ladder and keep your fucking mouth shut.
Right. And that's where people have to make that decision on their own. You know, have they seen enough malfeasance to want to report it or not?
And they're going to throw their whole life into a tizzy if they do that.
And that's what happened to me. Yeah.
Yeah. And what has it been like since then? Have you gotten support from more people than you thought you would? Or have more people thrown you under the bus than you expected?
I actually feel more support than I expected. I've made it through. It's not been easy financially for me. When they messed with my clearance, I haven't gotten a job since. I've been out of work since August of last year. So that's not been fun. Yeah. Was there a reason why they said they messed with your clearance? No. They just made it sound like, oh, it's just an administrative error. Sorry.
Yeah, we still have your clearance here. Everybody that wants to employ me, I've had quite a few employers want to hire me. And they say, yeah, we can see your clearance over here. It looks like DOD is trying to reactivate it. But month by month by month, it just sits there. And they won't pass it. to the employer. Somebody is just sitting there going, oh, another request for Jason. Goodbye.
Delete. That's what's happening.
Because you've stepped out of line. That's what it feels like to me. Okay. Logan, have you experienced the same kind of situation? No.
No? He's in a different class than me. He's an official whistleblower. Me, I just step forward to say that I don't think – We need the government to do this. I think we as the public need to do this. And I created an app to do that. I was hoping that. What is your app? My app is called Fina. It's an app to report UAP paranormal encrypted like events.
And the idea is that we can get multiple people to see the same thing recorded. and then look for the outliers and get people like Jacques Vallee and Dr. Eric Davis and Hal Puthoff and others, the graybeards, to look at it and say, okay, here's what we can figure out. You know, Gary Nolan and all these people. Let's get them the information that they need.
And then after we get them the information they need, let's get it out to academia so we can have kind of like a more organized approach to finding out what's going on. I wanted people to use my app on the drones. Some people did, but not enough. And I had a little bit of a problem because when I put it out on Android, There was only one other app that was close to it that was in the same name.
Go back there. There's like almost 10 apps with the same name, so people didn't know what was going on.
They're getting confused. But anyway, to answer your question about the support, yes, I do get a lot of support. There's people like Stephen Diener. There's Digby Furneaux and Tom Thompson. There's UFO Sarah that's on X. There's a ton of people that I can mention, let alone how much support James Fox is throwing at me. That's what's getting me through this.
How many different versions of these life forms have been discussed with you?
On mission, I can say three I know of. Two mainly tall whites, grays. Those are the main ones.
Are the tall whites like this one that you encountered, the one with the big eyes? Yes, yes, like that one. But that wasn't that tall, you said.
Right. But apparently, according – have you seen the video from Mr. Hall, the guy that was supposed to be the weatherman and actually interfaced with the tall whites?
No.
Yeah, I totally believe – I've seen too much. But anyway, he says –
It goes in and out of my brain.
Well, I can verify the fact that what he said about his position there as a weatherman, that he could walk around anywhere he wanted to because that's what the base commander told me when I got my orientation drive-through on Dreamland. And he mentioned the weather site and that that person can walk wherever they want to. And what did they report? Well, just what, Mr. Hall? Yeah. Yeah.
He says that the tall whites go through a growth cycle where they're kind of normal height, but they're very long lived. They live like 800 years or more. But when they start getting older, then they get very tall, like seven, eight foot tall. And then they begin to, you know, their bodies begin to not function properly and they die. Kind of like somebody who has a growth problem.
Oh, like a giant.
Exactly. And their vital organs just can't pump enough anymore.
Kind of like large dogs that die early because of their heart problem. Right.
So the guy that I saw died. was probably a young person, you know, probably only like 70 years old or something like that, which is kind of an adolescent to them or a young adult. Oh, okay.
So... And this was explained to him through some sort of telepathy?
Well, he would actually, as the weather... If you listen to that video, I really encourage you to do that, but Mr. Hall also published some books on it, but... He claims that when he was there at this one place that, you know, I can verify it's there, that on the other side of that mountain or that hillside,
That's where the trail goes off into where the tall whites apparently have been given an annex of land to live where they don't get bothered. I mean, it's part of the military complex.
Is that on Google Earth? There is parts of it, yeah. Can we, like, look where the tall whites live?
I tried to, yeah. I'd have to get my laptop out, but yeah. What does it look like? It does look like there's some circular patterns. It does look like there's some possibility that there are some like doors inside the mountain that it looks like it's camouflaged to look like it's part of the mountainside.
So the idea is that that's a base for them when they visit us?
Yeah, because apparently, according to Mr. Hall, they come here for a five-year stint, I guess, and they have to refuel. And then they have another ship come through, and the other one's refueled, and it takes off.
So they're closer in the evolutionary chain to us than some of the other ones.
Is that a safe assumption? Yeah. Now, the other third type that got mentioned on mission was reptilians. But every time that they were mentioned, it was really quickly hushed up by whoever else was on the other end of the line. Shut up, don't say that, is what they were doing. They don't want to talk about the reptilian presence at all.
They would talk about the tall whites and the greys being in the lab of environments. You know, not a lot, but some. But these reptilians, it was like nobody wanted to talk about it.
Was there any sort of an explanation that anybody give you of why they don't want to talk about it?
No. The only time I got any inkling was that when I, you know, was out of the program and other people started to talk to me about all the different, you know, things. They're like, well, how many races are there? I don't know. But some people talked about the reptilians. They're like, do you realize that these are evil? Yeah.
I had to listen to that. And the thing is, we don't know if it's because of their appearance. You know, you would assume something that's reptilian is maybe a demon or whatever, and a Nordic with the blonde hair, blue eyed is considered like an angel. Or is it that's just our perception? But that's what you hear.
Well, every reptile here is evil. Right? You ever seen a Komodo dragon eat a goat?
It's horrific.
They're fucking monsters. Every single reptile is a monster that's here. There's not one cuddly reptile you can hang out with, cuddles with you, brings you your newspaper in the morning. No.
I thought that was funny because the lady was like, my snake sleeps with me every night. And the guy says, no, it's laying next to you because it's sizing you up for eventually a chance when it's going to eat you.
One day it's going to eat you. You have a monster that you feed. And as long as you keep feeding, it won't eat you. People with pythons for pets, they're out of fucking minds.
Well, to give it some credibility, I did do some research after that person talked to me. Because I did see that there is a reptilian race that is very malign like that. And they even have, according to what I read, this one race has a penchant for blood for some reason. It's like a shark frenzy with them. Like a real reptile. It's a euphoric experience for them.
Yeah, a reptilian race that does that. It just makes you wonder about... human history about the stories of demons and angels and this is what Tucker Carlson believes that they've always been here and that this idea that they're coming from another planet is not it's not that simple no that's more complicated and he thinks that it's the demons and the angels from the Bible yeah
So they could be seen that way. But here's here's something that someone we were just talking and throwing ideas at each other. He said, if humans have actually been on the earth, like, say, this long.
Right.
All right. When the dinosaurs were here, they were like, yeah, this long. So is it possible that some of them could have evolved to a certain point? Know that something bad is going to happen. They're so advanced, they go off world and then they come back and go, hey, what happened here?
Or is there a place where the Yucatan impact never happens? And so those dinosaurs eventually evolved to become super intelligent.
Yes. Because remember back in the day there used to be an Omni magazine? All right. One of those hypotheses was if mammals like us hadn't shown up, what would we have looked like? And it shows a... lizard walking upright and doing everyday things.
But wouldn't you think that it would have done that already? They were around for 100 million years, 200 million years. In that time period, they didn't evolve at all. Those fuckers, they just kept eating each other in the same way.
That's the assumption. But now we're going back and looking at all kinds of different things. They said that maybe it wasn't the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs. Maybe it was a combination of things like There was some kind of mutation, something that they drank in the water, and all at the same time, maybe the asteroid was the catalyst to start it.
And then all these other things that happened after, you know, the fireball, all the other stuff. But if there was a group that was so advanced that they could sit there and go, that's an asteroid. It's going to kick our butt. Or let's go under, you know, because there's some legit looking things that can go underwater and do their thing.
Live underground, that kind of thing, yeah.
Because I heard a story. Why not?
Anyway, go ahead. You heard a story?
Yeah.
Okay.
I just heard a story that someone just said, imagine this. The aliens are coming down. There's another society here that lives on the ground, highly advanced. And they like to keep things the way they are. So they're going to direct all their energy to make sure that the NHI that we're seeing are paying attention to us and not them. And I was like, hmm.
But see, for me, the way I look at all this reptilian presence is just like I've read in the Bible. You know, that... For some reason, I feel like this whole experience I've had in my life actually increased my faith in the Bible and God. Because even in the Bible, it mentions the serpents and that Lucifer being the head of that genre or species did cause the fall of mankind.
and all this other good stuff so to me i feel like i just got experience with the reality of the fact that these things exist and even though they try to keep it all hidden that i got exposed to the program where i could see some of it and i think that there's some credence also to that side of it as well so to give credence to the whole thing is just to
say that that's what I believe, but at the same time, it wasn't there.
This Eben thing that you talked about initially, this creature, what did that thing look like?
They didn't really describe the Eben. They didn't? Nope. They just said that it was just like them reporting on something for that day. So it was kind of like a daily thing with them.
So they had already described it. You just weren't privy to it. And so they were just going on the assumption that everybody who's talking about it knows.
It's kind of like, you know, somebody asked me what you look like today. You know, after the first time they asked me, they're never going to ask me about that again.
So it was like that was just not a topic. Got it. So this Eben, was it here against its will? Was it here to interact with us?
It sounded like it was imprisoned. It sounded like an interrogation result is what it sounded like.
If you hear any of the stories, they make it sound like he was one of the survivors and he got stuck here and he started working with us and eventually he died in the natural causes. But it's all speculation because we're, you know, we're hearing all this stuff, but we don't have any way to verify.
And how many other stories that are similar to that, like the interactions and a thing being here with us, have you heard?
There's another one that actually escaped from captivity.
Yo.
But he actually convinced his interpreter or his interrogator to help him escape because the program was trying to get him to open a portal for them. And they wanted control of it. And the guy eventually, the interrogator, actually pushed him into the portal and had surreptitiously given him back to his own home world. And it ended that guy's career probably. A portal? Yeah.
And what kind of portal are we talking about?
You're talking like it's kind of like a way of opening a wormhole that you can control.
And did they say where this thing was accomplished and how?
I think it was also in Reticuli. I think it was another being from the Reticuli system.
Right, but the portal.
Where is this portal? How is it accomplished? Oh, the portal, I thought... I was trying to think, where was that call from and to? Because you always get the originating location, but you're always trying to figure out who the distant end is. I'm trying to think... All the parameters because you have to write down the phone number and every stuff sometimes.
It sounded like it might have been on the Pacific Northwest or the West Coast area is where this was taking place.
And did they say how the portal was made? Was this made by them?
They had recovered parts of one, and they were trying to complete it, and they were trying to get this being to help them complete the portal so that they could use it for their advantage.
Like a Stargate. Yeah. Like a real Stargate.
Correct. Yeah.
Remember what I was telling you, that story about, you know, let's go get Jimmy? Yeah. The rumor that I heard surrounding this was that he convinced his interpreter that if he didn't get back and if he didn't get home, really bad things were going to happen. And that guy just kind of felt like, you know, hey, I got kids. Right.
I don't want society to be destroyed.
Unless he had some compassion for him because he's been working with him for a while.
Yeah. So when he got the chance, he was just like, You know, get him in there.
I can't remember all the things. I think they had to keep this entity tied to a chair or something so he couldn't do anything. And that's why he needed the help of the guy that was the interpreter. He had to push him into the portal on the chair that he was tied to.
So the rumors I heard, I didn't hear the portal part. I just heard that he somehow he was able to get him outside. And just as he got him outside, they just showed up above and did a snatch and grab and he was gone. And next thing you know, he's out there. So there's different versions.
Right. There's different versions. I'm just telling you that that's the only other one I've heard that you're mentioning that you wanted me to describe that. Was there any other entities that we had captured and had something similar? That's the only other story I've heard.
Do you know the Richard Nixon story?
Yeah, where he went with Jackie Gleason. Yeah. Do you think that's bullshit? Actually, not for that time frame, no. I could see Jackie Gleason and Richard Nixon soaking some suds down.
That I definitely could see. And also, Jackie Gleason did become obsessed with UFOs afterwards and even had a house built in the shape of a UFO. It's a wild-looking house that was apparently for sale recently. Yes, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't in Palisades, was it? No, no, it was in upstate New York. It did look like a, it's a very bizarre looking house.
Like you see, you're like, why would Jackie Gleason build a, want to see it? Yeah, yeah. You look at it, you're like, why would Jackie Gleason build a house like this? But then you hear that story, you go, well, maybe that's why he did it. Because the word was that he had become obsessed with UFOs at one point in his life. And this story came out, I think, as told by his wife.
Oh, wow, yeah.
This was Jackie Mason's house. Which is so weird.
Yeah.
Spaceship-like house. Very strange. Very fucking strange.
For someone to do something like that, I would have to believe they had something profound.
Or they were me.
I would build that.
I've never had a UFO experience.
I'd build that fucking house. I love that house. I kind of like those, too. It's like down at Navarre Beach where I have a home down there in Florida, but there's a UFO house down there.
Oh, really? Yeah, and it looks just like a UFO. I think there's a UFO house in California somewhere. I think there's one in the hills above Studio City. I think there's one. It's like a famous UFO house. I think they've filmed things. I think it's like on stilts, and it looks like a UFO. Mm-hmm. I mean, people are always going to want things that look like that.
It doesn't necessarily mean that the Jackie Gleason, yeah, that one. That's in the Hollywood Hills. It's called the Chemosphere. That one actually is pretty cool. Fucking dope. That house is cool as shit.
But I'd be terrified living in California with earthquakes and it being on those things.
Stupid place to live.
Yeah.
Yeah, you wouldn't want it as your main house.
No, no.
That's a house you visit every now and then when you want to get drunk. Let's get drunk at the UFO house. Or appreciate someplace private. Have a party. Have a little cocktail party at the UFO house.
There you go.
That's exactly how I treat it. Yeah, it's like fun. Yeah. But so the grays, the tall whites, the reptilians, but then there's the mantis too, right? Right.
And those are things, honestly, I've had, we've only discussed a part of my life. I've had experiences all the way from three years old on. And even after I was out of the program and I was just working in Florida and I've seen the delta or triangular craft like three times.
And one of those times it was my daughter when we were coming back from her gymnastics class pretty much just before I retired. And what did that look like? It was like the size of a three-story home, but it was pointed, and on the top it was kind of angular, kind of like what you see the F-117 look like where it's angular. It kind of looked like that.
It had pale grayish-white lights on the underside, on the cardinal corners, and then in the back – There was a flat panel that looked like a grill where there was a light. There was like these stack of straight up lights like fluorescent lights are that would go to the right and then to the left.
And did it make noise?
Zero noise. Zero noise.
And it was just flying through the air? Yeah.
Fast?
Slow?
It was going fairly slow. And then when it banked, it turned. And then that's when it sped up a little bit. And then I lost it in the trees. Then I saw it two other times. One time was going to work and the other time was in 2022 when I reached out to some of the program folks that I used to know to tell them, hey, there's a space on the top secret JWIX computers. That they're talking about UFOs.
And I pointed them directly to this delta-shaped craft because I was like, I know what this is and I know what they know it is. So I was trying to let them know that you need to look at this imagery that we have our hands on. And ends up they ended up showing up with it. And they showed me flying in flight. They followed me home the next night. And it was right there above my car.
And I'm looking kind of like. So this is ours? It's ours. Yeah. It's a hybrid or it's ours. I've always told people.
A hybrid meaning what?
Well, here it is. The whole thing is that in the 90s, I know they were on mission with me at Wright-Patt, and we saw a delta-shaped craft. It had different nacelles at the time or engines at the time. That's what a nacelle is. And then so this new version looked very similar in shape. However, it had these glowing orbs that looked like they were part of the propulsion system.
So they had upgraded part of it, and now it looked fully functional and operational because back in the 90s it was not.
So this is the other thing that I keep hearing is that we are in possession of technology that is many, many years ahead of anything that anybody could anticipate. Correct.
And when we get that, I call that exotic material and or whatever you want to call it. But we get our hands on that and about every 10 years we get a breakthrough on it.
because we do study it and sometimes somebody is smart enough to figure something out and the next thing you know we've got fiber optics we've got cell phones and we've got transistors now we're nanotech you know where'd all this stuff come from is some of this part of this nhI presence and that they've taken a patent that was developed inside the program and now these people from Lockheed and Northrop are patenting this stuff and then making lots of money on the outside
Other than the beings that we described, are there other ones that people have talked about?
Yes. I've actually, like I said, as a young adult, I probably encountered more of a spiritual sense, but they were Nordic looking, you know, platinum hair kind of a look, blue eyes.
Like the tall whites or different?
No, different.
How many documented different species have you heard of?
If I'm talking about my mission days, it's only that handful. And then if you're talking about other things that I've had other people tell me about, I think I've heard enough from enough people that I trust that I think our concept of life in this universe is totally off. I think there are literally trillions of other life forms. And anything you can imagine is probably true.
So that's an interesting thing, because I always one of the things that I wondered when we used to talk in the task force was if this is the you know, we're the alpha species here on Earth. So what if what we're seeing is the alpha species from another planet Think about what other critters and other things are running around.
And maybe if we see something wild and crazy over here, what if it's somebody who's got a dog like Psycho? All of a sudden, something goes, what was that? We just don't know. So we can speculate and everything and build all these hypotheses up, but we're constantly looking to add to what we think is out there so we can figure out going – Here's what we figured out. Here's what we haven't.
Now, is the conventional explanation that these things are from other planets or is there speculation that they're interdimensional? Is there speculation that they live in the water?
Yes. All of that. All that. All of the above. I would say that the way they appear and disappear is interdimensionalism. And I've had other friends that have had encounters that have talked to me that they could see a larger craft and then it turned and all of a sudden there was a door opening and a creature coming out. And yet this other part of the craft seemed to be like a long way off.
So it's like interdimensionally large. However, you know, when it turns, it's not like our four-dimensional world.
I've heard of a craft that you go inside of it and it looks like a couple hundred feet on the outside. You go inside of it and it's bigger than a football field. Yeah, Doctor Who style.
Because it's going into this other dimension and there's actually more space to that. Yes, and that's what this guy was describing.
So we've all heard that, too. The other thing, too, about the dimensional thing, because of the speeds that they're moving at, it could be that they're moving so fast it looks like they slipped into a dimension. Because sometimes you'll see these things go off into the sky and then do some weird whatever and then they're gone. And then other times what you're seeing is...
This thing is moving slowly, and then all of a sudden, it's gone. And you're like, did it just slip into another dimension, or is that there?
Is the speed so fast that you can't track it with your eye?
Yes. I have heard people tell me that they were seeing some of these things moving at 16,000 miles per hour plus, and were still accelerating. Wow. I've never been able to verify that, obviously, but these are some people that seem to know what they're talking about. And, you know, they just kind of come forward.
I would just have when I was on the task force, I would just get a phone call and said, hey, are you Mr. Logan? Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're like, check your email in about five minutes. Or, hey, there's something I want to tell you. And I have no way of verifying it. But the idea would be to put it in a little box somewhere to say, hey, this is an unknown.
And maybe someone like Jason would come along and verify. what this guy just told me or verify what I just saw in a video that maybe he can corroborate on. We would look at primarily for the task force. We were looking at the safety of the pilots because they were having so many problems and they kept filling out all those safety reports, you know.
So we're like but and I remember asking the task force director, Jay Stratton, I was like, what about all the commercial stuff that's going on? And he says, I want to incorporate that, but I can't because with their stuff, we don't have a good chain of custody on what's happening. And if someone's manipulating the data with the stuff that's coming directly from the pilots, we can.
So I was always looking at what the pilots told me they saw. And then me and several others in and outside of the task force were looking through the commercial stuff to see if we could find the same exact thing.
Because that's how I when I first got it pulled into the task force, it was I talked about my app and I was going to do this just to figure out just something for a hobby when I get older, you know, when I grow up. And then Lou Elizondo came out with Leslie Keen and their story. And I went and found Lou and I said, if you're serious about what you're talking about.
Stop by my office because I just wanted to see if he could do it. And he showed up with the gang and they presented their story about the pilots and everything. And we were like, OK. And I said, well, what about this weird thing over here? And they're like. How do you know about that? And I was like, I got friends in low places, kind of like you. And they looked at me and they said, don't worry.
That one's, we've been told that something mundane is nothing important. And I was like, I beg to differ. And I was able to show them a video of the same thing, seeing somewhere in the world through civilian stuff. And I remember when they were leaving after they heard everything, and all of a sudden Lou just turns back around and goes, you're in. And I was like, in what? And he goes, you'll see.
And next thing you know, I was in the task force. And for me, I was like, oh, my life just came full circle. I saw some things, and now I'm actually going to investigate these things? And so that's how I kind of pressed ahead. And then... Just to add, on top of that, remember I said when Jason showed up, I called David Grush, right?
But the funny thing was I hadn't even been in the task force that long, and I was trying to look at things. All of a sudden I get a phone call, and I'm like, yeah, how can I help you? And he goes, my name is David Grush. are you serious about all this stuff you're tracking? And I go, yeah. He goes, I want in. And I was like, huh? And he goes, I think I have something that can help with you guys.
And I was like, well, I'm not in charge of this. I got to introduce you to, you know, Stratton and company. And so I introduced him and every now and then I would say hi to him and we'd talk and he called me on the phone. But Who else? I mean, I'm going to Stratton. I'm going to all the people in the task force. And he pops up and I'm like, oh, my God, what do you do with that?
You know, I don't have the resources.
I didn't get invited like he did.
Yeah. I didn't have the resources to check out everything that he did.
One of the things that we keep hearing, Christopher Mellon's talked about this. Many people talked about this is there is evidence that's been classified. That is high resolution video and photographs. that are very distinct, very different than some of the blurry stuff that we've seen. Have you guys seen any of that?
Yes.
You have. Can you talk about it? Nope.
All I can say is that there's some really, really, good, clear, high def stuff out there that... Can't explain.
You can't explain, you're just sitting there going... We went through the whole rigmarole on these objects. You had people on one side of the fence, people on the other side of the fence, people in the middle of it all, and nobody could draw a conclusion.
The first thing we're trying to do is go, okay, could that be Russia? Could that be China? OK, who else is there? And you go through your whole list. Then you once you put that off to the side, you go through. Now, what are we observing? And some of the things, you know, like Lou said, the five observables plus the six, which is, you know, the psychological effect on that.
But you're kind of going through those looking for all those. They're not always there. Yeah, but they're super clear. And some of them you're like how I mean, you look at it, you just keep saying. How can that be?
Yeah, because you've got – also you've got to understand that these are professionals. We had imagery analysts go through looking for false positive like camera artifacts that look like something they're not.
They can do AI analysis of images now.
They're pretty accurate. Exactly. And we had a whole database of all these false positives to go through and it wasn't matching any of that. We were going through the imagery analysis of the video, looking for flaws like artifacts. Couldn't find anything.
And you're talking about a high resolution video.
Yeah.
It's much clearer than the stuff we're seeing.
Exactly.
And what's the resistance to that stuff getting out there to the general public?
It's just classification.
It could be where it's at, those type things. It could be anything.
Because one of the things that I think the community really gets hung up on when it comes to the Intel community is that the classification is one thing. But when you don't know if something is a threat, you automatically assign a value to that as being credible or not credible. And right now they can't draw a conclusion. Therefore, they don't want to declassify it.
Therefore, it will not be divulged in public because of those reasons.
I was telling him in my – my first thing as an intel analyst is to go friend or foe. Right. And then the next thing I'm trying to do is break down all the characteristics. And we would sit there and you're looking. When I first joined the task force, I remember there was a group that I used to walk in their office because they're smarter than me. So I want to make sure I'm getting the best input.
Yeah. The first couple of times I showed up, everybody pulled out the aluminum hats. They started playing the X-Files music. And I'm like, okay, guys, but what about this? And I throw it out there, and they're like, oh, yeah, what is that? After about the fourth or fifth visit, no more music. I come in. Everybody's already hunched over what I've already sent them. They're like, yeah, what is that?
Because we would – Jay Stratton asked us to – he said, lean forward and get out there and use an all-source approach to looking and gathering all the information on what we can find. So I would capture like – I would call up a drone guy and say, I need you to come to my office. Take a look at this. And he would look at it and he's like, holy crap. How big is that? What? How?
And I was like, yeah, I need answers. Can you take a look? And he would, Logan, I'll get back to you. A couple weeks later, he's like, dude, I got nothing. And then, you know, we would have an imagery guy look at it. And, you know, sometimes they could sit there and say, dude, that's this.
If you had one piece of footage or image to release, would there be one that really stands out? Like if they said, look, you could release this one, just one of these classified high-resolution videos, is there one that really stands out as being unique?
It's a group for me.
Can you describe any of it?
I think Lou Elizondo described one. There's the story that he talks about, I think Commander Fravor discusses about the torpedo. Do you remember that one? The story is that they were launching torpedoes and... You know, they blew the ballast on the torpedo. The torpedo came up to the top and the divers came to hook the torpedo.
And just as they were about to hook it, something very large, like an island, came up underneath them. All right. So I get this weird call. And it's you have to play devil's advocate because when you when you're trying to tell guys that there were they were the observer and you're trying to say, hey, well, you know, it could have been this. Some of these guys get downright angry.
They're pissed because you're questioning their ability to discern what's going on. They were there. You weren't. You know, so you've seen something life changing. Right. So you have to be careful because after a while, nobody will want to talk to you again because, oh, Logan's an asshole because he, you know. So you're very careful. So this guy just sends me this thing.
And I'm looking at it, and I just... Maybe a couple weeks before, I'd heard this story with Fravor and Elizondo. So I'm like, what is this? And there was this... All I can say was there was something very, very, very large moving under the water, but not too far that you can't see it. But it's moving under the water, and it's passing objects that...
i know are really large and this thing is bigger than them right and i'm sitting there going well i think they mentioned one of them and that was the oil tanker one yes yeah that one confused the hell out of me and there were people saying it was just a shadow that's the one that was going 500 knots Yeah, it was going pretty quick.
But some people were saying, oh, it's just some kind of a round object. The sun is just making a large. The shadow of the moon going across the face of the earth. Somebody did another analysis, and they looked at the wavetops, and they're like, this is not a shadow. Otherwise, it would show up on the wavetops. This is under the surface.
And it's disturbing the water underneath it.
This thing made this oil rig out in the ocean look. It dwarfed it. I mean, this is like three or four times bigger.
So the speculation is that they're hiding in plain sight in the water or is the speculation that there's always been a civilization down there?
I'd say in my opinion. Yes. No, in my opinion, I would say that they have been here a very long time and that underneath the ocean and underneath the ground are two of the best places to stay hidden. and out of the way of prying eyes.
You go out in the boonies somewhere or you go... Like, there's a whole bunch of activity going on around Puerto Rico.
Puerto Rico?
Yeah. There's a whole bunch of activity that is going on, you know, where the Nimitz incident happened, all right? So there's things that we want to verify because you hear stories about things. Like, you've heard of the Baltic anomaly, all right? So the first thing you want to know is... Well, first of all, is it actually there?
Once you verify that it's there, you want to know... What's its composition? What's its composition? All those things. There's another thing on there. You can look it up right now. It's called the Cuban Atlantis. It's supposed to be 13 nautical miles west of Cuba, all right? And it looks like there's triangles and everything else there. And I'm like...
From the moment that thing came out, I've never heard anybody else say, we've been there. We've checked it out. We've verified it. It's there. Let's send a dive team down. The thing on the right there. That's it, yeah.
Yeah. That's under the water?
Yeah. That's supposedly 13 miles off the coast of Cuba. Well, that's what we want to know. Yeah. We want to verify that. That's crazy. You know?
Whatever that is is crazy.
Yeah, where's the National Geographic documentary on that?
Wait a minute. Is that for real? Why have I never even seen that before? All the other ones I'm thinking are fake, but this one up top right there where the thing is.
Click on that, Jamie.
Yeah.
Ancient Origins. Is it a crackpot site? No, it just doesn't give the vibes of a place to start looking for relevant information.
Right. That's a good way to put it, Jamie. There's no vibe. Bad vibes, man. There was some people doing something coming across the water. Puerto Rico UFO. And they saw it. So could it be that the Caribbean- We analyzed this one. Yeah. The Caribbean's hot. Oh, wow. And there's something out there. Skip ahead.
It eventually goes in the water.
Yeah. That's very weird. Even this one, we've looked at it.
We argued over this for months.
How fast is this thing supposedly going?
It's not going that fast. It's kind of quick like a Learjet would.
But it just went right in the water. The two things that stick out about this. That's what's nuts is it goes in the water. It does. There's no rooster tail. It's going fast in the water. Yeah, there's no rooster tail that comes off it. And the other thing is at one point near the end, it actually looks like it splits in two.
There's like one's a holograph and one's... Right, and now there's some other imagery guy that's saying, oh, it didn't actually go in the water. It's just an artifact. Yeah, see, it splits up. Yeah, there you go. See, that's the part that you can't... And what are we seeing with the drones? Some of these are splitting, right?
Yes.
And these are the ones that I find very curious because those are the ones that get sent, and they're like, it's an orb, but now there's three of them. How do I explain that?
Well, listen, I want to thank you guys for having the courage to even talk about this because I know it brings with it a lot of ridicule. And for people like me that have no idea what's going on, it's very fascinating. You know a lot more than most. Well, I still don't know anything, though, so that's not good. Because I know more than most.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Yeah, but I mean, all I know is what people have told me, so I don't know what's real and what's not real, you know?
True, yeah.
But I appreciate you guys very much, and thank you for being here. If you've got social media, tell everybody where they can get a hold of you.
I'm on Xspace mainly. Just my name, Jason T. Sands, is my moniker.
Logan? I am at phenom.earth. Just look it up and you'll see information about my app and a little bit about my background.
Okay. And I've got a first-hand fund. I'm trying to get further whistleblowers to come forward as well. Okay.
James Fox did ask me to pass you something. He said if you could put out a shout-out to anybody – that has information on the Varhenia stuff because he's found some new information and he needs to start corroborating it.
Ah, okay. Where do they get a hold of James? Is James Fox director, I think, on Instagram? I believe so.
And his X-Space is also a good way. Okay.
All right. Beautiful. Well, thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it. Thanks for being here.
Thank you, Joe. All right.
Bye, everybody. Bye.