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The Joe Rogan Experience

#2243 - Julian Lennon

Mon, 16 Dec 2024

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Julian Lennon is a Grammy-nominated singer/songwriter, photographer, author, and filmmaker. His new fine art photography coffee table book, “Life’s Fragile Moments," is available now, as is the Spike Stent remix of his 1998 song "I Should Have Known." www.julianlennon.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Transcription

00:03 - 00:05 Joe Rogan

The Joe Rogan Experience.

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00:06 - 00:09 Advertisement

Showing by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

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00:15 - 00:44 Julian Lennon

I go to see this dermatologist. Oh, you have almost skin. Yeah, a little excision here because it had been bothering me a bit. And a couple of years ago, I had a bit of a cancer scare on my head because I have a birthmark here that you don't really see. And there was a mole there and I kept, as my hair got a little thinner, I would use a comb and it caught it one time and it opened it up.

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00:45 - 01:12 Julian Lennon

And so I kind of kept picking at it when it became a scab and I kept picking over the course of like six months. And then I went to see this dermatologist for the first time in L.A. And I said, yeah, I've got a little bit of a, you know, I've been trying not to scratch it now. But I'm a bit worried about it. It's been like six months of me being an idiot because it just was really irritable.

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01:13 - 01:35 Julian Lennon

And so she, you know, cut it out and sent it off. And... I was at a pretty serious meeting with a whole bunch of people. And she called me up at the end of it and said, listen, I'm sorry to tell you this, but it's cancerous. We've got to cut it out. We've got to get it. And, yeah, I just went completely numb.

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01:36 - 02:05 Julian Lennon

at that point and freaked out because i just thought what does this mean in its in the bigger picture uh and i you know i had a lot of friends that have passed from cancer various kinds over the years and so it really did freak me out anyway i got the all clear it was cleaned out and So just anything that just looks or feels a little odd. And there was something I'd been scratching here a bit.

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02:06 - 02:15 Julian Lennon

And something here as well. So she just did a little cutting. And no doubt I'll hear from her in a few days once she gets the results.

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02:16 - 02:21 Joe Rogan

That's scary because it was in a spot that you don't check. You know, it's covered in hair. You don't know what's going on back there.

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02:21 - 02:51 Julian Lennon

Yeah, but it was because of the birthmark. And, you know, I just kept... And the thinner hair, and so I just kept, you know, brushing it with a comb, and it caught it, and then it scabbed, and then it became itchy, and so I kept scratching it, you know, pulling it off. Like a kid, you know, as you do, as you just... Anyway, I'm happy to be here in one piece for the moment.

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02:53 - 03:03 Joe Rogan

I got one of those comprehensive blood panel screens for cancer recently. And then, you know, you wait a while for the results. And you're like, geez, like what if I'm one of those people?

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03:04 - 03:04 Julian Lennon

Yeah.

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03:05 - 03:06 Joe Rogan

Obviously, I don't have anything.

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03:07 - 03:23 Julian Lennon

Yeah. I go for a proper checkup like twice a year just on every front just to make sure I'm going to be around because I like living. That's good. I want to be around for a long time. That's good. For sure.

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03:29 - 03:29 Julian Lennon

61.

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03:30 - 03:35 Joe Rogan

Yeah, I'm 57. And we're getting up there, fella. I don't like to think about it.

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03:36 - 04:02 Julian Lennon

I don't think about it too much. I'm completely in denial. Yeah. Absolutely. I refuse. Because I just remember seeing my uncles on my mother's side, what they were like in their 50s alone. And they'd be sitting there with a big belly in front of the TV with a couple of packets of cigarettes and drinking tea or beer and watching the TV all day.

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04:02 - 04:26 Julian Lennon

And that was their life in their 50s and 60s until they had a heart attack and died. And I went... No, I'm not doing that one. And I've just always been, not that I'm a health freak in any way, shape or form, but I certainly, you know, my regime is try to eat as healthy as you can and do a bit of power walking a couple of times a week. That's good. And that does the trick for me.

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04:26 - 04:27 Joe Rogan

Nothing wrong with that.

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04:27 - 04:27 Julian Lennon

No.

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04:28 - 04:36 Joe Rogan

Walking is one of the best forms of exercise. If you can get it in every day, you'll be much healthier than if you don't. Absolutely. It's not hard to do.

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04:36 - 04:37 Julian Lennon

No, it's not.

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04:37 - 04:43 Joe Rogan

Listen to a book on tape. Go for a stroll. Yeah, exactly. It's great for the body. You don't have to fucking kill yourself.

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04:43 - 05:09 Julian Lennon

No, and I've also, in my time, dealt with a fair amount of depression as well. And anxiety, I get pretty anxious still. Even, you know, coming here today, I was a bit... Really? Yeah, yeah. So I went for a nice little power walk around the, whatever the lake is down there. Ladybird? The one where the bats are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ladybird. I had no idea about that. Have you seen them come out?

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05:09 - 05:09 Joe Rogan

No. Oh, it's cool.

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05:09 - 05:17 Julian Lennon

I had no idea. I'd never even heard of it before. It's really cool. The biggest bat population in the world. Is that true? That's what they're saying.

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05:17 - 05:30 Joe Rogan

I don't know if that's true. I think the biggest bat population in the world is in Africa, I believe. I would say so. Or the Amazon. Yeah, I think it's a really large population, though. And it's cool to see. They come out. That's what it looks like when they come out.

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05:32 - 05:47 Julian Lennon

Yeah, no, they claim. There's signage down there. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, that says it's the biggest bat population in the world. Hmm. Maybe it's a specific kind of bat. I don't know. Google, where's the big... Sorry. It's definitely part of it. Is this at sunset that this happens? Yes.

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05:48 - 05:57 Joe Rogan

Yeah, right at nighttime. It's really cool. It's very fun to watch. And you hear them. If you go under the bridge, like if you walk under here and... Yeah, I was there today.

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05:58 - 06:00 Julian Lennon

I didn't hear that. Yeah, you can hear them in there. Okay.

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06:00 - 06:05 Joe Rogan

They're just chilling. It's weird. But they're responsible for keeping the mosquito population down.

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06:06 - 06:07 Julian Lennon

Is that what it is? Yeah.

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06:07 - 06:09 Joe Rogan

They do a great job, those little suckers.

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06:09 - 06:16 Julian Lennon

Fantastic. They take care of the mosquitoes. Mosquitoes, yeah. What purpose do they have, really?

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06:17 - 06:20 Joe Rogan

Spreading horrible diseases and sucking your blood.

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06:20 - 06:23 Julian Lennon

That and aubergines. I don't understand the aubergines either.

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06:24 - 06:42 Joe Rogan

Well, you know, they tried to develop a genetically modified mosquito that was going to attack the other mosquitoes. Yeah. But that horror movie type shit, you know, I hear about that. I'm like, okay, and what happens then? Like whenever you start monkeying around with nature in that regard.

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06:42 - 06:44 Julian Lennon

And so nothing came of it then.

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06:44 - 07:04 Joe Rogan

I don't know what's been done with that. I don't know. It's like these people are doing these things and it can affect all of us. And you, you know, just read about it on the Internet. And if it wasn't for the Internet, you wouldn't even know they were doing it. This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Dogs are amazing. They're loyal. They're lovable.

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07:04 - 07:23 Joe Rogan

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07:23 - 07:49 Joe Rogan

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07:49 - 08:11 Joe Rogan

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08:11 - 08:32 Joe Rogan

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08:32 - 08:56 Joe Rogan

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08:56 - 09:14 Joe Rogan

This episode is brought to you by Vivo Barefoot. We are in the middle of a footwear crisis. Despite around 95% of people being born with healthy feet, a lifetime in conventional shoes can often weaken and distort them. That's why Vivo Barefoot is on a mission to reconnect people to nature.

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09:14 - 09:44 Joe Rogan

and human natural potential with footwear that maximizes feeling and freedom of movement, helping you regain natural shape and sensation. Go to vivo barefoot.com slash Joe dash Rogan to learn more and get 20% off your first vivos with promo code J R 20. Are you sure this is going to be okay in the long run? What's the potential chances for mutations?

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09:44 - 09:51 Joe Rogan

What happens if they carry a very unique disease that it's something you don't have a cure for?

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09:51 - 09:59 Julian Lennon

The scary thing is we have no idea what half of these people are up to. No, we don't. COVID being an example.

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09:59 - 10:23 Joe Rogan

Yeah, perfect example. Did you see what happened in Australia yesterday? There was a laboratory that lost track of – I put it on Twitter. lost track of a bunch of different really serious diseases. How does that happen? Someone left the door open? Yeah. I went once, me and my friend Duncan, we went once to the lab in Galveston, Texas.

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10:23 - 10:46 Joe Rogan

The Center for Disease Control, I believe, the organization has this enormous bio lab down in Galveston where they take care of like some of the most dangerous and deadly viruses in the world. So they have like this incredible filtration system and everybody's wearing space suits and they're walking. And we're in there going, what are you guys doing?

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10:46 - 11:06 Joe Rogan

Hundreds of vials of deadly viruses have gone missing from a laboratory and scientists warn they could be weaponized. So what are 100 vials of hendavirus, 2 vials of hantavirus, 223 vials of lysavirus, all of which are extremely deadly for humans.

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11:06 - 11:19 Julian Lennon

And, of course, I love it when the media says, you know, something along the lines of the end of that statement. Could be. Could be weaponized. So that's great. Now all the freaks are going to go and try and find that stuff.

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11:19 - 11:41 Joe Rogan

Well, it's, you know, we got into this mess in the first place because, and this has now been confirmed, that they were working on these viruses in this laboratory and it got released. and that these viruses had been created through gain-of-function research. So these goofballs are down there working on viruses, making them more infectious to humans.

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11:42 - 11:53 Joe Rogan

And you would say, well, why are they doing that? Well, surely they're doing that so they can study them and they can cure them, make sure that we don't get sick. Is that the logic? That's the logic, but they didn't have a cure for it.

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11:54 - 11:55 Jamie

This virus is rabies?

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11:55 - 12:20 Joe Rogan

Oh, great. Lysavirus are responsible for rabies, which is arguably the deadliest encephalotic disease known. The prototype rabies lysavirus thought to be able to infect all terrestrial mammals. Yay. What a good thing to just have laying around. I mean, that's like the opening of 28 Days Later, right? Yeah.

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12:20 - 12:23 Julian Lennon

There's a new one.

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12:23 - 12:38 Joe Rogan

Have you seen the trailer for the new one? There's a new one? 28 years later. No, come on. Yeah, yeah. Cillian Murphy's back. Let's go. Yeah, I'm in. Count me in. That's the greatest zombie movie of all time, for sure.

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12:43 - 13:27 Advertisement

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13:27 - 13:30 Jamie

Boot, boot, boot, boot.

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13:31 - 14:00 Advertisement

Moving up and down again. Men, men, men. Men go mad with watching them. There's no discharge in the war. If your eyes drop, they will get the top of you. Boop, boop, boop, boop. Moving up and down again. There's no discharge in the war.

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14:09 - 14:20 Julian Lennon

I woke up relatively calm and peaceful this morning. A little bit of pre-podcast anxiety. And now you're worried about the end of the world. Welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Thank you.

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14:21 - 14:45 Joe Rogan

I didn't know what to expect, but now I... I'm terrified of these eggheads messing around with all these things. I really am, because it seems like what we know now is that there wasn't a ton of oversight. They shipped... They sort of went with the... So the NIH funds the EcoHealth Alliance, and the EcoHealth Alliance funds the Wuhan lab. The Wuhan lab, which has had many safety violations...

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14:46 - 15:06 Joe Rogan

Including, like, I think a year before the leak. And then it gets out. And then they all lie. And then they all trade emails back and forth where they're talking about the lie. And they go in front of Congress and they lie. And now they're talking about giving Fauci a mass pardon, a preemptive pardon, so he doesn't get charged. That's crazy. The whole thing is...

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15:06 - 15:32 Joe Rogan

And then there's another one today where the Biden administration is keeping the emergency classification of COVID to 2029 so that they can avoid being attacked for the Emergency Use Authorization Act. It's so creepy stuff because there's money. It's all money, right? There's money involved in this.

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15:33 - 15:48 Joe Rogan

These people that are working on viruses, well, the way to get funding is you have to work on viruses. So whether or not – I don't think they're evil people, but I think these people, this is what they studied in college. This is what they went to university for, and now they're studying it. And what's the best way to study it? You actually have to have funding.

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15:49 - 15:58 Joe Rogan

You have to have a lab, and you start doing it. And so who do you do it for? Well, you do it for the Defense Department because they want to work on – Weaponizing viruses. This is a real thing.

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15:58 - 16:00 Julian Lennon

That's one of the scariest things.

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16:00 - 16:22 Joe Rogan

Fucking terrifying. I did a television show once where we talked to this guy from Russia and from former Soviet Union where he was talking about how they had literally like giant vats of anthrax. They had enough anthrax to literally kill like every fucking human being in America and that they were working on viruses and all these deadly diseases.

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16:22 - 16:32 Julian Lennon

To be honest with you, I'm quite surprised we're still here. It's pretty shocking. With what's already happened and what the potentials are, it's staggering.

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16:32 - 16:54 Joe Rogan

Well, if you think about all the things that we've gone through where we just barely missed a total disaster, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and then there was the one time where they thought that the United States had launched a missile at Russia and they were very close to responding. It was just a glitch. And one guy, just one clear-headed person, decided not to launch.

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16:55 - 16:59 Joe Rogan

And this is in the 60s, right? This is all, it's so terrifying.

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17:01 - 17:10 Julian Lennon

We're so close all the time, really. That's why one should just try and have a happy life wherever you can. That's for sure.

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17:10 - 17:30 Joe Rogan

The problem with that is if you don't speak up, if no one reacted to any of this COVID-19 stuff, if no one reacted to the Orwellian censorship complex that was established to try to silence people who are critical of the narrative that they were pushing.

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17:30 - 17:30 Julian Lennon

Sure.

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17:30 - 17:43 Joe Rogan

we would all be fucked. You kind of have to pay attention now, unfortunately. I don't want to. I want to just have fun and live my life and be with my family and my friends and enjoy myself. We all do.

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17:44 - 17:47 Julian Lennon

It's good to be aware. No question about that.

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17:49 - 18:13 Joe Rogan

But there's also this part of me that goes, yeah, but this is what the universe provides you with. The universe provides you with this very unique balance of good and evil. And the evil exists to appreciate the good and to motivate the good. No question. And there's always going to be both. It just seems like... And two, we reach some enlightenment until Jesus comes back, until the aliens land.

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18:13 - 18:19 Julian Lennon

It's that thing called balance, isn't it? Yeah. Trying to do the balancing act as best as you can.

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18:19 - 18:24 Joe Rogan

Yeah. What do you do? What's your balancing routine if you feel like you're getting a little sideways?

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18:28 - 18:53 Julian Lennon

I hate to say it, but it's back to getting out into the fresh air and walking. Yeah. I mean, that really does, or even photography, you know, just being... Actually, my number one go-to is I'm a biker. I've been on motorcycles since I was, like, in my early teens. So to really blow the cobwebs out, it's...

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18:53 - 19:06 Julian Lennon

kind of getting on the bike and just riding somewhere I've never been before I'll just look at a map and go that looks interesting and I just go and that looks like so fun if I was bulletproof and made out of metal

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19:09 - 19:10 Joe Rogan

I'm scared of motorcycles.

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19:10 - 19:21 Julian Lennon

Really? Well, it's the other people, as they always say. That's exactly right. But I believe you have to have a heightened awareness to be a biker and still.

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19:21 - 19:25 Joe Rogan

Most certainly. Do you have a loud bike so people can hear it at least?

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19:26 - 19:49 Julian Lennon

Yeah. I've had a few loud ones in my day. Like a Harley? I used to have a Harley. At the moment, I ride a Triumph, a couple of Triumphs. Oh, nice. One that looks like an old school but actually works. And then I thought I was never going to be one of those guys that ever kind of rode one of those 50s, no, the sort of adventure bikes.

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19:50 - 19:52 Joe Rogan

Oh, with like the saddles with the boxes?

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19:52 - 20:25 Julian Lennon

Yeah, kind of. Yeah, but relative half-faring. But when I go for a ride and these random rides, you know, I can be gone up in the mountains with no signal for three and a half, four hours, you know. And there has been an occasion or several in the past where without a signal, the bikers had problems riding. And it gets pretty scary when you're in the wilderness and you've got no backup plan.

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20:27 - 21:03 Julian Lennon

I had an oil leak with a brand new bike and no signal. And I was literally rolling down any hill I could just to survive, make it to whatever little village I could find in the middle of nowhere. Where were you? I was in France. Oh, wow. So I tend to go up in the wilds back there. So I decided also my backside after three and a half hours on one of the older style bikes is pretty painful.

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21:04 - 21:10 Julian Lennon

So I just happened to look at one of the Triumph Adventure bikes. What do they look like?

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21:10 - 21:11 Joe Rogan

Can you tell us?

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21:11 - 21:38 Julian Lennon

Is that it? So that's what my old bike looks like. That's actually my old bike with my old friend riding it. And that's the one where your ass kills after a couple of hours. But so, yeah, those are the kind of views I get. Those are in the middle of nowhere. Are these your photographs? Yeah, yeah. These are just quickies on my phone. Just the places I find myself in in the middle of nowhere.

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21:38 - 21:57 Julian Lennon

I mean, stunning, stunning, stunning places. And they're not far from where I am on the coast. That's beautiful. And they're kind of on the border with Italy. So it's pretty unique stuff. Where do you live? I officially live in Monaco.

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21:58 - 22:02 Joe Rogan

Oh, wow. I was just there. You were? I was just there last summer. Oh, shit.

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22:02 - 22:03 Julian Lennon

Okay.

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22:03 - 22:04 Joe Rogan

It's really beautiful.

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22:05 - 22:27 Julian Lennon

It's not a bad place to be. But a weird spot. It's a weird spot. It's like, what's going on here? Why is everybody stacked up in apartments right here? It's very transient. People come and go for whatever reason that they do. I mean, most people, like myself, we have a kind of summer house getaway so you can go breathe on the weekends. Yeah.

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22:27 - 22:29 Joe Rogan

Isn't it kind of a tax shelter-y place too?

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22:29 - 22:50 Julian Lennon

Oh, very much so. Yeah, yeah, no. A lot of real rich folks go there to hoard their cash. Oh, for sure, for sure. But there's a few new places around the world that offer that kind of possibility. Oh, really? Like where else? Well... Dubai is offering certain incentives now. Portugal, certain incentives.

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22:50 - 22:52 Joe Rogan

Yeah, Dubai has like no income tax, right?

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22:52 - 22:58 Julian Lennon

I've never been there personally. Is that a fact? I think it is. I'm not 100% sure.

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22:58 - 23:05 Joe Rogan

I have a friend who just moved to Dubai. He's American and he's a filmmaker. And he says, I feel so safe.

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23:05 - 23:09 Julian Lennon

Yeah, well, that's one element of it. There's no crime. As long as you're not doing anything bad.

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23:09 - 23:22 Joe Rogan

He said you could leave a Rolex on the ground and someone will pick it up and turn it to the police. Yeah, I'm sure. UAE does not levy income tax on an individual. However, it levies a 5% value-added tax on the purchase of goods. That's pretty reasonable.

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23:22 - 23:22 Julian Lennon

Yeah.

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23:22 - 23:27 Joe Rogan

Levied at each stage of the supply chain and ultimately borne to the end consumer. Wow.

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23:27 - 23:55 Julian Lennon

Fairly reasonable. Yeah, yeah. So... Although it's never inspired me so far anyway. Well, there's a lot of, like, wild restrictions over there. Oh, yeah. And I like a bit of character with where I am, you know. Yeah. And, you know, one of the pleasures I find is, number one, I'm a biker, so I get to ride around a lot. I'm not really a beach guy. After 20 minutes, I start twitching.

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23:56 - 24:23 Julian Lennon

I need to do something. It's true. Yeah. But I'm also a foodie as well. So, you know, Monaco's half an hour away from Italy. And there's actually a big crossover in the restaurants between French and Italian food. And then you have places like... the island of Corsica, which is French now. It's been through the mill a few times. It was English at one point. It was Italian at one point.

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24:25 - 24:52 Julian Lennon

I think a few other nations do. And I could see it from where I was. You can actually see the outline of Corsica from the south of France and from Monaco in certain locations. And I'd seen it for 25, 30 years and had never been. And a couple of years ago, I decided with a friend to hop in. I've got a little mini convertible, and that's my little runaround.

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24:52 - 25:21 Julian Lennon

And decided to get the ferry, which is about six hours across, and drive with no bookings, no nothing, and just see if there was a hotel available. And drove around the whole island in 10 days. And it was one of the most magical places I've ever, ever been to. It's like 10 countries on one island. The scenery is mind-blowing. And the south of it is very much like the Caribbean.

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25:21 - 25:45 Julian Lennon

Crystal clear, turquoise, blue waters. But the food, again, is this combination of the best of Italian and the best of French. Wow. And just the freshest of the freshest of the fresh. And I've only been down there about two or three times because this was only a few years ago. And I couldn't believe that it's – and here's the other thing. Okay, the ferry is six hours.

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25:45 - 26:18 Julian Lennon

But you can get on what they call a vomit comet there. It's like a very short flight. You could be there in the south of Corsica from Nice airport in 45 minutes. And it's a different world. It's an entirely different world. Stunning, gorgeous, different world with, again, scenery unlike I've ever seen before. And for such a small island, which you can... Is it here? Oh, wow.

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26:19 - 26:41 Julian Lennon

I mean, it's just insanely, insanely beautiful. And that's Bonifacio, yeah. They're renowned for being... They can be a bit of a tough nut. In what way? If they don't like you, if you piss them off, excuse my French, they'll blow up your house.

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26:41 - 26:53 Julian Lennon

I mean there was a report a couple of years ago that this guy's house, he was causing some trouble and they didn't want him around and they blew up his house. They set it on fire and blew it up. I'm serious.

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26:54 - 27:01 Joe Rogan

I guess if you live in a small place like that that's really amazing, you're probably very protective of someone coming along and ruining it.

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27:01 - 27:07 Julian Lennon

They're exactly like that. I mean if you don't – I get that. If you don't respect them. Yeah, I get that. Yeah, no.

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27:07 - 27:23 Joe Rogan

Well, whenever people say like if you go to France, they're very rude. I get it. I've gone to France. I didn't think they were rude, you know, but I get how there's some Americans like hopping right off the cruise ship that are just fat and stupid.

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27:23 - 27:48 Julian Lennon

There's just, you know, I think if you're not prepared to be warm and friendly on the approach and treat them with the respect that they deserve in their own country. Treat like you're a visitor. Yeah. You're thankful to be there. Don't order them around. Don't tell them what to do. And even though they think it's quite funny that you try and speak their language, I mean –

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27:50 - 28:04 Julian Lennon

I can understand French pretty well and Italian and a few other things, but God help me if I try and speak it because they'll just – they don't laugh at you, but they'll speak back to you in English. Right.

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28:04 - 28:05 Joe Rogan

That's the wonderful thing about English is that –

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28:06 - 28:08 Julian Lennon

But at least make the effort is what I'm saying. Sure.

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28:08 - 28:09 Joe Rogan

Show them that you're trying.

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28:09 - 28:22 Julian Lennon

Show them that you're trying. Yeah. Say merci. Yeah. Say that. Just thank you. Alone, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't just order them around, which I've seen many people do, and it's a bit shocking.

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28:22 - 28:38 Joe Rogan

Grazie mille. Si. Grazie mille. Say a few things and just let them know that you're trying. Yeah, absolutely. I go to – I try to go to Italy every year. Me and my family, we go there every year and I love it.

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28:39 - 28:40 Julian Lennon

Where do you head?

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28:40 - 28:42 Joe Rogan

My favorite place is Ravello.

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28:42 - 28:43 Julian Lennon

Where is that? I don't know.

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28:43 - 28:55 Joe Rogan

Ravello is on the Amalfi Coast. Okay, okay. It's just so beautiful. But I've liked Rome too. It's a little touristy. The problem with Rome is it's overcrowded and there's a lot of touristy shit going on.

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28:55 - 29:23 Julian Lennon

Yeah, Rome is not my favorite. The reason why it's so appealing to me is because actually my first stepfather was Italian, Roberto Bassanini. That's pretty Italian. Oh, he was very Italian. And he was the black sheep of the family. He was the naughty boy. And he was more like an older brother to me, married to mom. after dad, after John.

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29:24 - 29:47 Julian Lennon

And his family were involved in kind of hotels and restaurants from also London in the heyday of Italian restaurants. It was like the 70s. And so they had a few small hotels in different areas. And so whenever I wasn't at school in London or England at that time,

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29:48 - 30:20 Julian Lennon

We'd take these little trips to Cortina or above Milan, there's a little town called Foppolo that I used to go, unknown by most tourists, locals to go skiing in the winter or Pesaro, which was on the east coast for summer holidays. I spent a lot of time there growing up from the age of five, six, seven. She was only with him for about three or four years, but we stayed in touch.

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30:22 - 30:46 Julian Lennon

I used to go and visit him all the time because he was a laugh. Of course, sadly, his lifestyle killed him with a couple of heart attacks at the end of everything. That's usually how it goes when you're having a good time. Yeah, he was having too much of a good time. I'm afraid. But I miss him dearly. He certainly was, you know, one of those characters that you just, you know, you admired.

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30:46 - 30:52 Joe Rogan

When I go to Italy, it feels like almost immediately you have like a decrease in blood pressure.

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30:52 - 30:53 Julian Lennon

Yes.

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30:53 - 30:54 Joe Rogan

Like almost immediately.

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30:54 - 30:55 Julian Lennon

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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30:55 - 30:59 Joe Rogan

It's like the vibe of the people and the way they live is just…

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30:59 - 31:04 Julian Lennon

Relax. They can be a bit stressed sometimes, though, with the shouting at each other.

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31:04 - 31:14 Joe Rogan

Yeah, but even then, it doesn't seem like shouting, like American shouting leads to violence. Yes, this is true. I hear American shouting. I'm like, let's get the fuck out of here.

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31:14 - 31:15 Julian Lennon

Yeah, agreed.

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31:15 - 31:20 Joe Rogan

I hear Italian shouting. What happened? Did someone in the kitchen fuck up? What went wrong?

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31:20 - 31:31 Julian Lennon

Yeah, I mean, I don't want to sound pompous, but it does sound pompous. If I have friends come over from the States or London, I'll say, yeah.

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31:31 - 31:39 Joe Rogan

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31:39 - 32:07 Joe Rogan

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32:09 - 32:40 Joe Rogan

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32:40 - 32:58 Joe Rogan

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32:58 - 33:19 Joe Rogan

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33:20 - 33:44 Julian Lennon

Fancy, you know, getting some Italian tonight. And we'll get in the car and we'll be on the freeway or the motorway over there. And they'll be saying, where the F are we going? You know, I'm going, go for Italian. And there's a little town about an hour away from Monaco. Tiny little medieval town called, well, we'll give it away, actually. Can't give it away.

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33:45 - 34:09 Julian Lennon

where I'll just go and get the best spaghetti vongole on the planet made by a grandmother who's in a kitchen, you know, 10 by 10 at the best of times, you know, with all... And it's down on the water and it's just, you know, it's Italy for me, if you're not in the mountains, if you're by the sea, at its best. And, you know, they all get dressed up at sunset.

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34:10 - 34:37 Julian Lennon

You know, they all love to walk the promenade and... in their finest attire and sit there and watch the world go by and drink their coffee and chat. Because I lived in L.A. for I think it was about eight years and I went back. The story of me going back actually was that I flew back to London to see a premiere of a film called Backbeat. It's about the early Beatles.

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34:38 - 35:05 Julian Lennon

I didn't know anything about it, but I had an invite, so I went to see it. And I met this guy who said, who's a line producer, film producer. And he said, you know, have you been to Monaco before? I said, no, I've never even thought about it, really. And he said, do you like Grand Prix? I said, no. not really a Grand Prix kind of guy.

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35:06 - 35:31 Julian Lennon

He said, well, listen, if you've got nothing to do this weekend after we saw the film and the premiere, why don't you come down? I've got an apartment. I've got an extra room. I know the town inside out. And I was thinking, oh, what am I going to do? Go back to L.A. and be numb again. And so I literally went down to Monaco the next day.

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35:32 - 35:59 Julian Lennon

And he just showed me around and we went to this very famous restaurant and famous corner called the Rascasse Corner on the Grand Prix circuit. And it's literally where you're having a prawn cocktail and there's a car coming at you at about 180 miles an hour with just a chicken wire fence in front of your face. Yeah. How far away? I mean, directly in front of you.

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35:59 - 36:23 Julian Lennon

I mean, the car could be... So this is it right here? Yeah. That's not the Rascasse Corner. That's the Lowe's Corner. Rascasse Corner is a very, very famous little spot. There it is. Yeah, that's it. So you'd be behind the chicken wire fence. This is a kind of modern version of it. But that's even more protection than it used to have.

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36:23 - 36:53 Julian Lennon

um and you'd have a bit of lunch there and they would and that became that was the hot spot in monaco for years and years there were three brothers that owned it real troublemakers and uh it it was a blast but so you had the car so i went all right i'm into this uh and i So I spent the summer down there. And I used to have a little bungalow on Mulholland and Coldwater.

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36:54 - 37:26 Julian Lennon

And I had a caretaker there because I had a dog at the time. And I just said, hi, Tim. pack it up sell the house i'm not coming back and i didn't i didn't go back did you take your dog uh the dog actually died before i i yeah sadly it was uh getting on but uh but yes uh yeah that that was it yeah i just i just put everything in storage i rented this kind of

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37:28 - 38:04 Julian Lennon

what could be seen as a Miami Vice kind of apartment on the 30th floor. It just had marble and a mirrored wall with no furniture. And so I bought a couch off of the floor of a store called Habitat and Because it would take like six weeks to order and I had nothing. And so I bought a couch. I bought a TV, even though there was no English TV back then. This is 30 years ago.

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38:05 - 38:31 Julian Lennon

And I just had a trunk to put the TV on. Occasionally you get American movies. And a mattress on the floor and I lived like that for 10 years. Wow. And just was really stupid. Did you enjoy it? It was just stupid. Did you enjoy it? I had two – I've had two – Well, I've had three major – no, four. It's like the Spanish Inquisition. Four major incidents.

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38:31 - 38:50 Julian Lennon

Now, I mean, London back in the day used to be a great place to party and enjoy. And then I moved to New York for a few years early in my career, in my early 20s. But I almost – I think I almost died there with the partying that went on and the clubs back in that –

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38:52 - 39:18 Julian Lennon

hey at the heyday then and it was celebrity set central you know um with the likes of at the limelight with alice cooper and a few other fruit cakes um and then and then i i really didn't feel like i was you know i could have i could have uh yeah yeah easily i was borderline uh i enjoyed it too much And then I went out to L.A.

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39:19 - 39:47 Julian Lennon

and a friend of mine had a convertible and we just drove across Mulholland down to Malibu and I went, this is gorgeous. What the hell am I doing? So I moved to L.A. I packed up and moved. And that's – I did exactly the same thing. I found a place to live and I just was there until I could get myself situated. I think I met you in LA. Are you serious? In 1993. That's a good possibility.

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39:47 - 39:50 Julian Lennon

That would have been mid to end of my term out there.

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39:50 - 40:00 Joe Rogan

I was doing something for MTV and you were one of the first celebrities that I met. You, I met Rico Suave and a couple other people.

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40:00 - 40:14 Julian Lennon

Shut the front door. Yes. Yeah, because I was early in on the MTV stuff. The label I was with was pushing whatever, you know, throw me on whatever was available.

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40:14 - 40:40 Joe Rogan

I was with this woman who was an executive at MTV. And she was taking me around and showing me L.A. You know, I'd never been to L.A. before. And, well, I'd been... once for a martial arts competition when I was young. Here was, and she took me to this nightclub, and you were at the front door about to get in. And I was like, holy shit. Do you remember which one it was? No, I don't.

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40:40 - 40:57 Joe Rogan

I remember very little about it. Was I with some fruitcakes? I'm sure I was. I don't remember. I just remember like, oh, that's a famous guy. John Lennon's son. Crazy. Because, you know, I was coming from New York. Of course. I was 25, 26 years old. I didn't know anything. And I was like, this is so strange.

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40:57 - 41:03 Joe Rogan

It was just strange to me to be in these like Hollywood parties with this MTV executive who's taking me around and showing me all this stuff.

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41:03 - 41:03 Julian Lennon

Oh, yeah.

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41:04 - 41:09 Joe Rogan

She was just kind of like introducing like, this is what it's like. It's what everybody does. They go out. They go out to the clubs.

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41:11 - 41:30 Julian Lennon

Yeah. The scary thing about L.A. was that you thought it was all over by 2 o'clock because they literally pull your drinks at 1.30. But then they go to someone's house. Right. And they continue until dawn. So that was dangerous too. So I was happy that I got away from that.

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41:31 - 41:33 Joe Rogan

Fortunately, I avoided all that.

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41:33 - 41:42 Julian Lennon

Yeah. You're lucky. Yeah. I mean, there was some fun to be had, no question about it. I'm sure. But a lot of it was kind of dark, too.

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41:42 - 41:48 Joe Rogan

Yes, I'm sure. Well, that's when you start adding cocaine to human beings, you get darkness.

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41:48 - 41:50 Julian Lennon

Oh, yeah. And a lot of Jack Daniels, too.

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41:52 - 41:52 Joe Rogan

They go hand in hand.

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41:53 - 41:53 Julian Lennon

Yes.

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41:53 - 42:09 Joe Rogan

Yeah, I avoided all that luckily when I moved to L.A. I'm one of those people that's like, I see where that's going. How long were you out there for? I guess 30. Well, no, not quite 30 years. 26 years because I've been here for four.

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42:09 - 42:09 Julian Lennon

That's a stretch.

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42:10 - 42:22 Joe Rogan

Yeah, the most of my life, the most I've ever lived anywhere. I lived there. But I only went to parties like a handful, very small handful of times. It was like I was dragged to them.

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42:22 - 42:22 Julian Lennon

Yeah.

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42:22 - 42:29 Joe Rogan

You know, like the last one I was dragged to was Naomi Campbell's birthday party, which was – I'm sure that was – It was insane.

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42:30 - 42:30 Julian Lennon

Yeah.

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42:30 - 42:35 Joe Rogan

It was with Dave Chappelle. So Dave and I were at the comedy store and, you know, Dave knows everybody.

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42:35 - 42:35 Julian Lennon

Yes.

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42:35 - 42:56 Joe Rogan

Dave's like, hey, man, there's a party up in the hills. You want to go? And I was like, I don't want to go to any fucking parties. He's like, come on, man. I want to go alone. So I said, OK. So me and Dave, we drove all the way up. It was like a scene in a movie. Yeah. Because here's me and my super famous friend. And we're in my Porsche. And we're in my race car of a GT3. So we're like.

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42:57 - 43:21 Joe Rogan

We're driving up in the hills. And then we have to stop at this place. And then you have to get on a shuttle. And then you get to the house. And then you get on an elevator, an outside elevator that takes you from the main house to the party house. So they had a party house on the top of this hill. So we're up in this elevator with Demi Moore, which is weird as it is. I'm like, hi.

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43:21 - 43:22 Joe Rogan

It's fucking weird. I famously.

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43:22 - 43:52 Joe Rogan

lady yeah and then we get to the top of this hill and it's just everybody famous it's lenny kravitz and all these different people and so naomi campbell there's a photograph of her on the the side of the hill that's literally 50 feet tall it's enormous naked photograph of her of course because it's her birthday well of course she's unbelievably beautiful still as old as she is i don't know how old she is but she looks sensational so we get to the top of this place we're hanging out it's very weird it's very weird and then dave pulls me aside he goes man

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43:53 - 44:11 Joe Rogan

I wouldn't want to be this famous. I go, hey, man, you're the most famous motherfucker here. He goes, really? Oh, yeah, yeah. Because we're a little high. He goes, really? I go, 100%. You're the most famous person here. For sure. For sure. We're just laughing. Like, this is so crazy. And then we got out of there and went right back to the comedy store. We're like, oh. I can't do this.

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44:12 - 44:17 Julian Lennon

Yeah. It's just too strange. The scenes are pretty weird out there, that's for sure.

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44:17 - 44:24 Joe Rogan

Well, it's also these celebrities, they can't hang out with regular people, I think. They feel too weird. So I think they try to get together.

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44:25 - 44:32 Julian Lennon

Yeah. And so we were in like a- That's absolutely spot on. A vampire den of famous people. You are absolutely spot on.

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44:32 - 44:36 Joe Rogan

They called it like, he said it was like an eyes wide shut party. I'm like, that's what it feels like.

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44:36 - 44:54 Julian Lennon

It feels like you're in a secret fraternity. Yeah, there's a few that I've left that I felt very uncomfortable being at. Like what? I mean, I couldn't tell you exactly where and when, but certainly some weird ones up in the hills. I just went, no, this doesn't feel good.

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44:54 - 45:00 Joe Rogan

There's something about the act of going up into the hills. Like you're going to the lair, the dragon's lair.

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45:00 - 45:31 Julian Lennon

Well, one of the things was the fact that, well, I mean, now you've got Ubers all over the place. But, yeah, back in my day, there was no taxis around either. So you'd get trapped. Ooh. And then you'd figure, well, I'm here anyway, you know. Yeah. Might as well have another drink. Yeah. And that's what would happen more often than not. But, yeah, so it's, yeah, kind of better not to.

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45:32 - 45:35 Joe Rogan

Definitely better not to. But maybe go a couple times.

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45:35 - 45:39 Julian Lennon

Yeah. Go and check it out. You don't want to do that. Go and see what that's all about.

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45:39 - 45:42 Joe Rogan

Yeah. Many people have lost their time.

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45:42 - 45:42 Julian Lennon

It's messy, though.

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45:42 - 45:59 Joe Rogan

Oh, yeah. They've lost their time to those places. It's very messy. It becomes a part of your life and your lifestyle. It's deeply unhealthy both physically. It's physically unhealthy, but it's also spiritually unhealthy. Yeah. It's a weird way to spend your time.

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45:59 - 46:00 Julian Lennon

Been there, done that. Thank you very much.

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46:01 - 46:02 Joe Rogan

You look fine. You got through it.

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46:03 - 46:04 Julian Lennon

I did. I did get through it.

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46:05 - 46:06 Joe Rogan

Don't you think it's good to just know, though?

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46:07 - 46:07 Julian Lennon

Oh, yeah.

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46:07 - 46:09 Joe Rogan

Yeah, not the way to do it.

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46:09 - 46:29 Julian Lennon

I think if you don't know, you can't. You can't talk about it. You can't understand that weird journey that you go through. I think you have to do certain things sometimes just to realize what it's all about. It's that balance thing. It's the light and the dark.

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46:29 - 46:49 Joe Rogan

LA is so particularly odd, too, because everyone's chasing this very specific goal of notoriety. It's success, but success is... quantified by notoriety. The more famous you are, the more popular, the bigger your song is.

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46:49 - 47:05 Julian Lennon

Even now, all you've got to have is a bloody iPhone or whatever. TikTok. And an account, and that's it. Very strange. Yeah, really, really odd. I can't quite get to grips with all of that, to be honest with you.

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47:06 - 47:18 Joe Rogan

I don't think anybody can. And I think it's essentially being captured by a form of technology that has leveraged our desire for this attention, our desire for this notoriety.

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47:19 - 47:43 Julian Lennon

But it's also being known for nothing. Yeah, that's the scary thing. And having this element of what seems to be the latest generation of this privilege, you know, where they believe that, you know... Everything is owed to them. Right. Entitled. Entitled, yeah. And I find that shocking.

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47:43 - 48:01 Joe Rogan

Well, that comes along with the quest, right? If the quest is just notoriety, like if you're an artist and you happen to get famous because everybody loves your music or loves your photography or loves your – Your books or whatever it is. That's a different sort of a relationship because people love you for what you've made, what you've produced.

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48:01 - 48:02 Julian Lennon

Yeah, there's a purpose.

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48:02 - 48:23 Joe Rogan

Yeah. And I love people like that because I'm fascinated by people that are able to create things that resonate with everybody or resonate with an enormous amount of people. It's fascinating to be around them. And to like to kind of just, you know, I know a lot of famous people now and I know some of them are just fantastic people. It is really interesting people.

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48:23 - 48:41 Julian Lennon

You have very interesting people on your show. That's for sure. I mean, that's what intrigued me, you know, from, you know, Professor Brian Cox, you know, I'm an absolute fan of. He's amazing. Such a nice guy. Lovely guy. Mind-blowing. Mind-blowing. Too much information for my good.

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48:41 - 49:00 Joe Rogan

It's so funny. I was talking about him with a friend of mine the other day, and my friend wasn't aware of him. And I had just done a podcast with him. And I had gone to the club from the podcast. I'm like, oh, my God, I had the greatest podcast. This guy blew my mind. Yeah. I've had him on several times, and he's always amazing. And my friend looks at the photo. He goes, what does he look like?

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49:01 - 49:11 Joe Rogan

I pull up. He's like, is that guy in a fucking band or something? I go, yeah, he was in a band. That's right. He's like, no way. I go, yeah, he's in a successful band. He's an actual brilliant scientist who was in a successful band.

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49:11 - 49:29 Julian Lennon

Yeah, yeah, mind-boggling. I mean, I doesn't comprehend. Because he looks like a rock star. He does. He does. Yeah, he's not changed his look since the beginning. And he's such a great science communicator. Well, that's the thing. See, I love science, but I get lost in it sometimes.

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49:29 - 49:40 Julian Lennon

But he is probably the closest I'll ever get to really trying to have an insight into what it's all about as best as he can describe it.

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49:40 - 49:52 Joe Rogan

He's really good at explaining to people that don't have – The proper understanding of all the terminology and all the ways they discover it. He can lay it out for the layperson.

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49:52 - 49:56 Julian Lennon

Yeah. Which is why he's so fascinating, which is why everybody should know him.

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49:57 - 50:01 Joe Rogan

Yeah. His show is wonderful too. Have you ever seen his show? They do a live performance.

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50:01 - 50:02 Julian Lennon

No, I have not.

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50:02 - 50:08 Joe Rogan

Enormous screens and they show you like history of the universe and stellar nurseries and all this wild stuff.

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50:08 - 50:09 Julian Lennon

Yeah.

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50:09 - 50:10 Joe Rogan

Really incredible stuff.

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50:10 - 50:12 Julian Lennon

No, fantastic. Yeah. Fantastic stuff.

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50:12 - 50:28 Joe Rogan

Yeah, I've been very fortunate in that way that I've had a chance to talk to so many extraordinary people. And it's great, but it makes talking to boring people almost painful. Like you're just holding your breath.

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50:29 - 50:37 Julian Lennon

I don't know which category I'm in. You're not in the boring kind. No, no. Well, I can be. I think we all can be, I guess, at some stage, but.

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50:38 - 50:46 Joe Rogan

Well, just the fact that you're willing to do what you've done is to take these trips and just move to a place. I think that's great. I think people need more of that in their life.

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50:46 - 51:03 Joe Rogan

I think you could see the world from your neighborhood and from where you live and get a really distorted sense of this experience, this very unique experience of these bizarre thinking creatures interacting with each other on this isolated planet that's hurling through the universe.

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51:03 - 51:03 Julian Lennon

Yeah.

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51:03 - 51:07 Joe Rogan

And you could think that you kind of understand the experience until you go to other places.

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51:07 - 51:35 Julian Lennon

Well, I see you're a big fan of Bourdain as well. Yeah. And I loved his shows. I still watch them all the time because it's just what he discovered and how he entrenched himself with the people that he went to meet. And the conversations and the food are just – that's my cup of tea right there. I think how can you not want to do that, learn and love that experience?

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51:35 - 52:01 Joe Rogan

Well, he had such an infectious passion for different cultures and their food and the art of food. He was the first guy that made me consider that cooking is actually an art form. I kind of knew it, but I didn't think of it. I kind of just said, oh, delicious food, awesome. Oh, this guy's a really great chef, awesome. And then I watched his first show, No Reservations, like, oh. Okay, duh.

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52:01 - 52:22 Joe Rogan

It's art. It's art that you eat. Oh, that's why they're all weird and they all have tattoos and fucking weird earrings. Okay, they're artists. Okay, that makes so much sense. And I was like, oh, you ignorant fuck. You had never put it in that category. I just decided, no, that's just food. But no, there's an art to food. It's another level. Yeah.

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52:22 - 52:27 Joe Rogan

Like the place you were talking about, linguine with clams, linguine vongole, which is my favorite dish of all time.

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52:27 - 52:36 Julian Lennon

Spaghetti vongole. When it's done, right? I promise that if you ever come back to Monty, as we call it, I'll drive you.

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52:36 - 52:37 Joe Rogan

Oh, I'll go.

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52:37 - 52:42 Julian Lennon

I'll go. We'll go for spaghetti vongole and hope the dear grandmother is still alive.

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52:42 - 52:58 Joe Rogan

It also makes me angry because when I eat pasta and pizza over in Italy, I don't feel like shit. And then I come to America and I eat the same supposed things and I feel – I can eat a frigging salad here and put on weight.

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52:58 - 53:14 Julian Lennon

I don't know what's going on. I'm serious though. Yeah, it's seed oils. Absolutely. Seed oils in the salad dressing and sugar. Yep. All of that. All of that. Yeah, I agree. I live – it's a much healthier lifestyle over there without question. Oh, yeah. The food hasn't been violated. Yeah.

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53:14 - 53:17 Joe Rogan

Yeah, that's true. It's generally organic.

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53:17 - 53:26 Julian Lennon

You can eat pizza every day and pasta every day. And also I think the other real big thing here is the portion control as well.

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53:26 - 53:27 Joe Rogan

Yeah, we're gluttons.

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53:27 - 53:32 Julian Lennon

I mean, you can have one plate full of food here and it'll serve four people in Europe.

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53:33 - 53:46 Joe Rogan

Yeah. Literally. Oh, yeah. That's a fact. I think, you know, I was poor when I was young. And I think because of that, I'm even more of a glutton because I just want more food. I want all the food.

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53:46 - 53:46 Julian Lennon

Yeah, yeah.

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53:47 - 53:48 Joe Rogan

And then I work out a lot, so I'm always hungry.

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53:49 - 53:49 Julian Lennon

Yeah.

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53:49 - 53:57 Joe Rogan

So then I have a real... That's a different thing, though. But yeah, I mean... The only thing that keeps me from being fat is my exercise routine and discipline.

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53:57 - 53:57 Julian Lennon

Yeah.

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53:57 - 54:00 Joe Rogan

Because if I was just giving in to my whims, I'd be 500 pounds.

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54:00 - 54:01 Julian Lennon

Yeah, yeah. For sure.

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54:01 - 54:15 Joe Rogan

I just love food. Yeah. It's, you know, especially when you go to a different culture. No. You know? If you go to somewhere, like you can go to Thailand and eat authentic Thai food in Thailand. It's like, oh, man.

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54:15 - 54:23 Julian Lennon

Oh, yeah. There's something special about it. It's great when you've got friends who have that same appreciation that, you know, while you're eating lunch, you're talking about dinner.

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54:23 - 54:24 Joe Rogan

Yeah.

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54:25 - 54:29 Julian Lennon

Yeah, yeah. That's how excited you are about food.

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54:29 - 54:42 Joe Rogan

And it's also – it just realigns your priorities. Like what really are you trying to get out of life? You're trying to get out of life memorable experiences with people you care about. Those are like the best moments in life.

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54:42 - 55:12 Julian Lennon

No question. No question about it. I long for that because also I go on these very long working time periods and I don't get to see a lot of friends quite often. And so I really try and work out and look at my schedule these days to go – I'm taking some time out here for a couple of days. I want to see my friends. I want to say hello. I want to share some time and stories and food with them.

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55:12 - 55:19 Julian Lennon

So it's become a key thing to have that included in running around like a headless chicken all the time.

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55:19 - 55:24 Joe Rogan

Is that what inspired your photography? Because this book is really excellent. Your photography is great.

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55:24 - 56:00 Julian Lennon

Thank you. Thank you. You know, it was a dear friend, Timothy White, who's a celebrity photographer. And he'd done my second and third album. And we were doing a charity single called Lucy, which was about Lucy Voden, who was the Lucy in the sky with diamond that I grew up with. who died from lupus. And then I became the lupus, the ambassador for the Lupus Foundation of America.

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56:01 - 56:26 Julian Lennon

We were doing a single to raise money called Lucy. And we were doing with another great artist called James Scott Cook. And we were doing a photo shoot and he'd sent me some pictures and I started screwing around with his pictures. And he said to me, and you actually don't do that with another photographer's work. He said, what the fuck are you doing with my pictures?

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56:27 - 56:48 Julian Lennon

He said, where did you learn how to do this? I said, well, I didn't. I just, you know, I'm intuitively inspired to play around with stuff, you know. I'm still a big kid. And he said, well, do you have any other – do you have other – do you actually have photos yourself that you've taken and worked on? I said, well, I've got bits and bobs but nothing.

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56:49 - 57:20 Julian Lennon

So he and I sat down and looked through all the photos I had. And I think there was maybe 1,000 at that time, which isn't much at all. I'm now over 120,000 photos. It's mind-boggling. That's why this was difficult. Yeah, so he said, Jules, why don't you do something with this stuff? And I said, what? What am I going to do? He said, listen, you should do an exhibition.

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57:20 - 57:55 Julian Lennon

You've got some really beautiful things here. And I said, listen, I'll do it if you mentor me through the whole process. which he did. And I was probably more petrified at the first exhibition that I did, which was in New York at the old CBGB's, which turned into the Morrison Hotel Gallery. And that was in 2010, I think. And I was more petrified

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57:55 - 58:22 Julian Lennon

The three days leading up to that than I was ever going on stage. Well, probably my first ever stage performance, which I did in Dallas at a rehearsal space that was down here for the first ever tour. Now, again, the anxiety. It's the unknown. I don't know what... You know, the worry of what people are going to think because, you know, not just being you but John Lennon's son.

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58:23 - 58:46 Julian Lennon

Being the second John, so to speak, was always an issue for me. You know, feeling like you have to doubly prove yourself. So, and literally an hour or two before the opening as well, there was the most horrendous storm and downpour in New York. And I thought, well, that's it. Nobody's coming.

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58:48 - 59:23 Julian Lennon

But to my utter delight, I had reviews from fine art, photography, magazines, et cetera, et cetera, that gave me nothing but praise. And I was shocked. Wow. Absolutely shocked. So I just continued doing that. I'm now over, I think, 42 exhibitions worldwide. And I just finished my biggest one in Venice at a museum over the last three months. And the book, in fact...

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59:27 - 59:51 Julian Lennon

I had approached other publications before but been pretty much turned down by everybody. And then out of the blue earlier this year, this company out of Berlin called Tenoise said, listen, do you want to do a photography book? And I said, hell yeah. And they said, why haven't you done one before? I said, because nobody gave me the opportunity. Excuse my French.

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59:51 - 59:57 Joe Rogan

Do you think that's because you're John Lennon's son? Like there's a burden that is very unique to you.

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59:57 - 60:03 Julian Lennon

Listen, I certainly recognize that there's walls up without question.

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60:03 - 60:10 Joe Rogan

What is that like? Like what are the walls? Like do you think it's just they dismiss you?

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60:10 - 60:33 Julian Lennon

There's some things going on. I mean, I've discussed this with Rebecca, who you met, my manager, and a few other people. You know, there's occasions where I'll be totally blanked. Like with the last album I came out with, Jude, which took, you know, in between five and 30 years to write and record. It was old songs and new songs that I wanted to balance the sound.

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60:35 - 61:08 Julian Lennon

And it was at a time when I'd gone through a lot of changes myself and I had decided to finally be Julian. I'd been John Charles Julian Lennon all my life. But everybody had always known me as Julian. Even mum and dad called me Julian. So I'm like, you know, I want to be me finally. So by deed poll in 2020, I said, right, I'm going to be Julian now. And the album's going to be called Jude.

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61:09 - 61:34 Julian Lennon

And the reason I called it Jude was it was finally not only an acceptance but actually – what's the terminology? I'm actually taking ownership, should I say, of the name Jude and what that represented for all these years. Yeah.

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61:35 - 62:08 Julian Lennon

to other people and to me so anyway so i i you know that was the album was a biggie for me calling the album jude for starters inciting right hopefully positive things um um but the weird thing was you know i did uh i put this whole band together and i i i wanted to as an as a starter to go on all the TV shows that I'd always ever wanted to appear on.

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62:09 - 62:30 Joe Rogan

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62:31 - 62:37 Joe Rogan

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62:38 - 62:56 Joe Rogan

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62:56 - 63:08 Joe Rogan

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63:10 - 63:40 Julian Lennon

For instance, in England, like Jules Holland, later with Jules Holland, which is the only live music show that I've watched all my life, literally. There's Graham Norton. And I'd done their radio shows, which is really, really weird. And we got on like a house on fire, and I performed live. And that all went down well. And then it was kind of like see you on the real show.

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63:41 - 64:10 Julian Lennon

Producers turned me down. And, you know, and and same with a lot of the late night American shows got got just didn't they weren't interested. And, you know, I had, you know, I'd done the name change. I'd been away for 10 years. I'd called the album Jude. You know, there was a lot to talk about, you know, and a great deal more than I'm presenting right now.

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64:13 - 64:45 Julian Lennon

Anyway, I was turned down and still, and that still happens to me. which saddens me because just when you feel like you want to open up, you know, and answer any question you can throw at me, you know, I've not been allowed to. That's what it's felt like, that I've not been allowed to speak my piece, whatever that is, you know. on whatever subject matter. It's weird.

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64:46 - 64:53 Joe Rogan

It's like the gatekeeper aspect of it is weird, but it's also weird, like, why not? Like, what would be the hesitance?

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64:53 - 64:54 Julian Lennon

I don't understand.

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64:54 - 65:05 Joe Rogan

It's the idea of the son of a great man, you know, and there's this weird, we have a dismissal, and I'm very guilty of it myself. The son of a great man, I would assume, like, that guy's fucked.

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65:05 - 65:06 Julian Lennon

Yeah, yeah. He's fucked.

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65:06 - 65:09 Joe Rogan

It's like the burden is too high. Your dad was John Lennon.

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65:09 - 65:28 Julian Lennon

Yeah, yeah. Iconic. Well, and I think with a lot of people, they don't want anybody to interfere with that. You know, I mean, how dare the sun come along and even try and be better in any way, shape or form or be as good as or whatever.

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65:28 - 65:30 Joe Rogan

Or whatever. Yeah, you're immediately dismissed.

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65:30 - 65:59 Julian Lennon

Which is why, you know, to a certain degree, photography really appealed to me. Number one, because... And the reality is I prefer it behind the camera. I don't mind being a goofball once in a while doing in front of the camera things, but I'm not really comfortable there. But behind the camera and, you know, traveling is what I've... I have a foundation called the White Feather Foundation and...

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66:01 - 66:26 Julian Lennon

We try to help people all over the world and it started – I know that you have interest in indigenous cultures. Sure. And I don't know if you know the back story to this, to the White Feather Foundation at all. I don't. Okay. So here we go. Okay. I was on tour with probably my most, at least outside of America, most well-known song.

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66:26 - 66:46 Julian Lennon

It was at number one and top ten in countries all over the world except for America. And it was called Saltwater. And Saltwater is about environmental and humanitarian issues. And I was number one in Australia. I was doing all kinds of shows. I was doing promo and tour as well.

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66:48 - 67:18 Julian Lennon

And I found myself in Adelaide and I got this call from the hotel management saying, excuse me, Mr. Lennon, but there's an Aboriginal tribe down here with TV crews who want to say hi. And I thought it was like an on-the-road prank. I said, yeah, sure. Why would they be coming to see me? And they called back and they said, no, no, no, this is serious. Can you come down, please?

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67:20 - 67:49 Julian Lennon

And so I think TV crews, Aboriginal tribe, what's this about? And so I kind of get dolled up a little bit because I don't know what the TV shows are or cameras are. So I go down. And in the lobby, there's a little platform and about 30 people, half of them indigenous, TV crews, a bunch of other stuff. And I honestly have no idea what it's about.

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67:49 - 68:21 Julian Lennon

And this woman who was the elder of this particular tribe called the Moaning people walked up to me and presented me with a male swan's white feather, which is about yay big, and said, you know, can you help us? You have a voice. Can you help us? And I just kind of went, Well, you know, do I just continue being the rock and roller or do I step up to the plate? Whatever that means.

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68:21 - 68:26 Joe Rogan

What specifically did they want help with?

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68:26 - 69:02 Julian Lennon

Well, I'll tell you. Initially, you know... I didn't know what their problems were. I imagined that it would be the same as most other indigenous tribes around the world that have had issues. And they said, can you help us? And I said, I'll do it for the children. So I guess what I was saying is the next generation, I can try and Anyway, so this woman was called Irish. She was the elder.

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69:02 - 69:33 Julian Lennon

She's since passed in the last year or so. But I spent 10 years making a documentary with a best friend, Kim Kindersley, who initiated this whole thing. We made a documentary called Whale Dreamers. independent we had no money really behind it no sponsorship we won about 8 international independent film awards which was great but the back story to this is that

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69:35 - 70:02 Julian Lennon

is that Dad had said to me, and I couldn't tell you when or where, just was one of those times that we were together. He just said that, you know, if something ever happens to me, that I'll let you know that... that to let you know that I'm okay or that we're all going to be okay will be in the form of a white feather. Whoa. So...

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70:04 - 70:32 Julian Lennon

when that woman presented me with a white feather, you know, the goosebumps came on heavy. I get them now every time I talk about the story. I'm getting them right now. So, yeah, there she is. There's Iris, and there's Bunna, who's one of the other guys. That is so crazy. I still have that. I still have that in the original envelope that she gave it to me, and it's, you know, it's a...

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70:33 - 70:55 Julian Lennon

In a very special place at home. I mean you can talk all about coincidences. No, listen. For me, I'm sorry, that was undeniable regardless of where my faith or spirituality or religion was. To me, that was, this is real. This is as real as it gets.

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70:55 - 71:21 Joe Rogan

It's funny because people love to dismiss these things. Like, oh, hogwash. Oh, it's just coincidence. Oh, it could have been a variety of different things. But the reality is, mathematically, what are the odds? Just what are the odds that you would be contacted by an indigenous tribe and they would bring you the very thing that your father said he would provide you as proof?

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71:21 - 71:51 Julian Lennon

Yeah. And I was in Australia, number one at the time, with Saltwater, the most environmental humanitarian song I've ever written and performed, you know. Right. Yeah, so I said, yeah, I'll do what I can. So we did make the film. And then with the advent of, of course, the internet, I thought, okay, we'll put a website together to sell the film.

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71:51 - 72:24 Julian Lennon

And I'd also said to my business manager, I said, if we make anything on this film, I said I want everything to go back to the moaning people. And he said the only way that that can happen is if you have a foundation. So initially the foundation was just a vehicle just to pass money along. But I started the White Feather Foundation to have, again, a vehicle to sell the film.

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72:27 - 72:50 Julian Lennon

And then slowly but surely, I would start getting these emails from people over the years, you know, over time. Sorry. Say, well, you know, can you help us? And I'm going, well, I'm not really a foundation. I'm just I did this project and I thought that was it. Anyway, there are a few other. There was lots of emails. And I finally said, well, you know, all right, this is a platform.

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72:50 - 73:09 Julian Lennon

Let me see if I can. OK, what am I interested in? What can I do? There's plenty of other charities out there. There's plenty of other people doing other things. But what can I do? What's most important to me? Indigenous tribes were the first, so the Moaning People.

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73:09 - 73:24 Julian Lennon

And then, in fact, in the film itself, in Whaledreamers, Kim, my director, friend and director, had already done a segment of a film where he...

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73:26 - 73:48 Julian Lennon

80 of the elders of the world's indigenous tribes, 80 from around the world, around a fire and just filmed them to talk about their plight and what they had in common and the fact that their cultures and land were being taken away from them, being destroyed, etc., etc.,

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73:50 - 74:19 Julian Lennon

So that became one of the first orders of the day, protect the mining, protect indigenous tribes around the world, try to buy back their lands and protect their cultures and their people and try and support them in whatever way we can, which is what we continue to do. And I was in Kenya going to different schools and health clinics, mostly girls' schools.

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74:21 - 74:39 Julian Lennon

I set up a scholarship in my mom's name, the Cynthia Lennon Scholarship for Girls. And so we send them to college and universities where they go to learn how to protect their people and their families and cultures. Yeah.

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74:42 - 75:08 Julian Lennon

And so we support, you know, we build health clinics and dormitories and we do it because, I mean, the stories that I heard from these girls about having to walk to and from schools that took three to six hours and they'd be exhausted by the time they got to home or to school. And that they, in order to, you know, get ahead, they had to pass, you know, certainly exams.

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75:08 - 75:33 Julian Lennon

But they had the threat pretty much every day of being either raped or murdered. And they would literally stay in their own schools, sleep in the classrooms and convert them to dormitories at night so that they felt protected. I mean, it was when they went home, they were doing three hours of chores every night before they could do any homework and then go to sleep and then walk to school again.

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75:33 - 76:12 Julian Lennon

So you'd hear these incredible stories that you just you just realize how lucky you are. And so we try to help, again, the indigenous. We do help with health and education as far as young kids, young girls across Africa, Kenya and Ethiopia. And also my last trip was to Colombia, to South America, to visit the Koji tribe, who were these insane people people that chewed the cocoa leaves. Oh.

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76:13 - 76:33 Julian Lennon

But they used to be fishermen years ago before the Spanish arrived in the 1600s and chased them off into the Sierra Nevada mountains. Is it coca leaves or cat? Yeah, it's coca leaves. Coca leaves. Yeah, and they chew it and mix it with spit. Oh, boy. Yeah, they're all off their heads really. But –

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76:34 - 76:56 Julian Lennon

But they still have this beautiful culture and I was only there for a few days and we were up in the mountains with them. There's another group, there's an NGO, another group called the Amazon Conservation Team who the White Feather Foundation worked with and we went down there and was able to buy back some of their land and we did a couple of ceremonies with them.

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76:58 - 77:29 Julian Lennon

Which were very, very beautiful. But probably one of the happiest moments of my life, and I've only mentioned this once or twice, was that we came back down from the mountains. And we came to the sea where we were staying in huts. And the Koji tribe came down with us. It lit a fire on the beach. The sun was just going down. And there was no phones, no computers, no nothing.

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77:30 - 78:02 Julian Lennon

And we're just sitting on the beach. And the fire's between myself and the Koji tribe. And the sun's just going down. And the waves are right in front. And it's just very beautiful. Nobody on the beach. Old, beautiful, beaten-up tree trunks that have washed up on the shore. And just a little haze from the water and the sand being blown. And there was a piece that I can't explain.

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78:02 - 78:34 Julian Lennon

I looked over at them and through the fire, the flames of the fire, and we just smiled. There was no words. It was just... some level of peace that had been found just living in that moment, that present moment. And then the sun going down and then because there's no street lights or anything else around, you saw every star in the sky possible.

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78:35 - 79:08 Julian Lennon

And so with that transition, hanging out with this one of the oldest tribes in South America with the fire, with the sea, with the sky and the stars. I can't even describe it. It was one of the most loving and most peaceful moments of my entire life. The simplicity of it. It was actually the simplicity of it all. And just the human heart and the appreciation. for the world that we live in.

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79:08 - 79:38 Julian Lennon

And it's like, well, that's partly why I do what I do, you know, even with the photography is capturing those moments, those once-in-a-lifetime moments. And the other thing was, is that how I started doing photography is when I was on the road a lot, you do these real long-haul flights, you know, to America or to Asia or wherever. And back in the day, you only had... one movie on a projector.

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79:38 - 80:11 Julian Lennon

That was it. You didn't have TV screens or the iPhones or anything to watch anything. So once the movie was done and you'd have a bit of food or whatever, that was it. Most people would go to sleep. I would always be twitching, of course. So I'd be looking out the window and staring at the clouds. And I realized that what I was seeing was literally just moments. And they would never be again.

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80:12 - 80:25 Julian Lennon

They would be gone, fleeting. That's it. Whatever that cloud, that light, that shade, that shadow, the color, the beauty of that, the enormity of it as well was… So I started taking pictures of clouds.

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80:26 - 80:57 Julian Lennon

And I just thought that at these moments, while everybody else was asleep on the plane, I'd be sitting there looking out, either thinking about everything that was on my mind in the world, yeah, or I'd be thinking of nothing at all. And I'd just be at peace. And again, like that moment in Colombia, just... absorbing everything that I found to be beautiful that was surrounded me.

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80:57 - 81:20 Julian Lennon

So clouds were my thing at first. That was my moment to either get away or think about everything. But mostly that kind of element of freedom and space and just, am I the only one seeing this? Everybody else is asleep. Everyone's distracted. Yeah, so I started taking...

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81:21 - 81:47 Julian Lennon

pictures of clouds and then I knew a few rock and rollers so I started taking pictures of those too and then one thing led to another because I'd go on these trips to Ethiopia with great organizations like Charity Water and again Kenya and South America and a number of other places I just would take a camera with me

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81:49 - 82:15 Julian Lennon

Because I have to confess, and I've said this a few times, I have the worst memory of anybody I know. Absolute terrible. Absolutely terrible. And so, in a way, this was taking a camera with me was to catalog what was going on. And it was only when I got back home, I put them on the screen and I go, oh, that's quite a nice picture. Oh, that's not so bad.

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82:15 - 82:40 Julian Lennon

What if I just did this, that and the other? And so I started making collections of my journeys, which eventually became my website and my photography. You know, I've never done a paid gigs as such and I've never used. Nothing that was natural light or present light. So I've never set anything up. I've always tried to, again, get that moment, whatever it was.

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82:43 - 82:55 Julian Lennon

And then I had the opportunity – I know I've gone in a bit of a roundabout circle. But the publishers came to me earlier this year saying, do you want to do a book? And I'm thinking, well –

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82:56 - 83:21 Julian Lennon

yes and how do i do this and and because a lot of people don't know i'm a photographer in any way shape or form i i thought okay can i can i make it a retrospective can i can i make it all the stuff that i'm interested in you know because often as a photographer or even a musician you get well what is your favorite thing what do you take pictures of what does your songs about Everything.

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83:21 - 83:44 Julian Lennon

Why do they? You know, the idea of being pigeonholed in any way, shape or form horrifies me. Me too. So this was a way for me to show my work. And it was a bit of a nightmare, too, because I had decided with the onset of this...

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83:45 - 84:05 Julian Lennon

exhibition I'd been offered in Venice at this museum alongside Helmut Newton no less why don't I try and marry the two so I have the book come out at the same time as the exhibition Now, that meant working on the book like an absolute fruitcake, madman on crack.

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84:05 - 84:35 Julian Lennon

I mean, we were doing nine to 12 hours a day virtually because he was based in the guy who I was working with from the publishers was based in Berlin. And I was where I was. So this would be virtual back and forth trying to figure out. What makes a photography book great? It was something else. We did it in a couple of weeks. It was insane.

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84:35 - 84:59 Julian Lennon

And the hardest job of it all was because I used to shoot anywhere between 150 and 100 pictures for a collection. I was never one of those that had like a limited edition of four or ten pictures on deck. Again, this was just a catalog of the work of what I'd seen and the charity stuff.

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85:02 - 85:29 Julian Lennon

But then I had to, you know, in those moments, I had to learn how to make a collection of 50 pictures, five pictures. I'm going, well, how the hell do I do that? How am I going to do that? So it's being able to tell the same story of 50 pictures in five pictures. The problem is you know about the other 90 pictures. Well, of course. And as I keep saying, they're all my babies. So, you know, it's...

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85:32 - 85:52 Julian Lennon

What it makes you realize is, OK, what's the truth? What's the really, really, really important message I'm trying to get across here? What am I trying to say? What am I trying to express here? Because half the time I just feel like a messenger, really. I'm just capturing something and I'm sharing it.

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85:52 - 86:17 Julian Lennon

And the reason I say that is because once I started getting into this, a lot of the earlier emails I had were from disabled people or people that didn't have money that couldn't travel around the world. And they would say, well, you're bringing this to us. By taking these photos, you're showing us your journey and where you've been and these indigenous tribes and this and that.

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86:18 - 86:48 Julian Lennon

I'm going, that's really quite special. That's really, you know, really quite special because you're taking on another role. Because I try not to... In whatever profession I've done, whether it's documentary work or books or children's books or music, I never try and shove things down people's throats. I just present things and you take what you want from them.

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86:48 - 87:20 Julian Lennon

So the idea was to put a book together that just showed the world as I'd seen it through those journeys that I've been on. And what happened was... that when we got the go-ahead for this exhibition, which was only earlier this year, I was thinking, how am I going to do that? And I decided to make that a retrospective too. But how do I then chop that many pictures down to that of this exhibition?

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87:24 - 87:55 Julian Lennon

Again, funnily enough, the book became my guideline. So what I'd learned in the editing process of putting the book together, I now looked to that and the book to see how I could present the work in a larger scale in a museum, which was bonkers. And this all happened this year. So it's like... Okay. All right. I'm going for the ride. I obviously want it.

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87:57 - 88:20 Julian Lennon

But when it all hits you at once, it's quite something else. It's been a full-on, full-on busy, busy year. And there's been music involved too and other documentary film projects, which you'll probably hear about next year. So it's probably been, weirdly, one of my busiest years.

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88:20 - 88:22 Joe Rogan

It seems like you're enjoying yourself, though.

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88:23 - 88:52 Julian Lennon

I'm alive. I think that's, for me, people say, how are you? I'm alive. And I have always gone with things that have been presented to me organically. Uh, anytime I've ever fought that or, or, or been pushed into situations, uh, never generally never works out. I think for everybody. Yeah. Yeah.

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88:53 - 89:06 Julian Lennon

So I, you know, I, I feel fortunate in that these things have come along and I've, I've been in the right head space, thankfully to go, yes, I want to, I want to do this, you know?

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89:06 - 89:17 Joe Rogan

When you started shooting, did you take classes in the technical aspects of photography? No, I don't have a clue. So what kind of cameras are you using?

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89:18 - 89:47 Julian Lennon

How did you learn how to use them? I didn't. I didn't. You just like figured out how to focus them? Same with music. I play by ear. Not a clue how to read or write music. Really? Yeah. And this, I tell you, this is one of my fears is that, and I'll come back to this, but I Because I'm not a practicing musician. Well, I haven't been for years anyway because of all the other work that I do.

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89:48 - 90:13 Julian Lennon

So if I'm not on the road and I'm not practicing and I've got a terrible memory, I forget. And so, you know, I've been cornered a few times when people say, come on, pick up the guitar or play the piano, give us a song. I couldn't. I couldn't even if you gave me a million bucks tomorrow. I couldn't do it. My memory just doesn't work that way.

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90:15 - 90:39 Julian Lennon

And so this is why my manager and I, Rebecca, we keep having chats about going on the road. I said, listen, if we're going to do this, then this is a lot of work for me. I have to relearn how to play my own songs and my lyrics. And I kid you not. Wow.

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90:39 - 90:41 Joe Rogan

But you also have to relearn self-taught.

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90:42 - 91:03 Julian Lennon

yeah yeah right so what would you do like have you done that in the past where you had to relearn yeah well what i i yeah i mean the last tour i did with the album everything changes how do you scale it like how do you get you just have to get in the room so you just get in the room and get in the room with the guys you know the the the band that you put together

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91:03 - 91:30 Julian Lennon

Generally, I'll have one or two friends in the band. And I have generally played rhythm guitar or a bit of piano for a couple of songs. But I have to relearn everything. And then lyrics. How long does it take to relearn how to play? Well, we were actually setting up, as I said, to do a bunch of TV shows to promote the album.

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91:33 - 91:56 Julian Lennon

And I was quite surprised about how quickly, because the band was so good, I walked into the room, they had the songs down already, and I just went, oh, fuck. Shit, I'm screwed. So that means, again, I have to step up to the plate. And it was just a question of being in there every day, remembering, learning the chords, going over it, over it, over it again.

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91:57 - 92:21 Julian Lennon

And of course, all this stuff that we were going to perform was all new material. Because when I write a song, if I've written the basics of a song in an hour or two, and it's all there, and then written the lyrics, and then produced it, recorded it, and it's done, that's the one and only or couple of times that I'll have ever played it.

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92:22 - 92:52 Julian Lennon

So it's almost a new song to me every time I come back to it. It's a real weird one. So for the photography, I just took along basically a really good quality automatic camera that took the shots. Did you know what you were buying or did you just go buy one? Did someone help you? No, I'd ask a few friends like Timothy White. I'd say, you know, what could I use if I'm running around and –

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92:53 - 93:26 Julian Lennon

And so I took their advice and I started with a very simple camera that was autofocus and all compact and I didn't have to change lenses. And that's one I did for a trip around the South China Seas on a boat trip. I just took this one camera in my backpack and hoped for the best. I had a show here at Leica in L.A. because it was a Leica camera. which was about 50 images of the trip that I did.

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93:29 - 94:06 Julian Lennon

But I think where my strength lies in photography is weirdly not on the technical side, obviously. but capturing that moment. I tell you the one thing about the woman that's on the cover of the book. She is now the Princess of Monaco, originally Charlene Whitstock. And I'd met her a couple of times and I'd met Prince Albert a couple of times.

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94:07 - 94:35 Julian Lennon

And I got this call literally the day before they were getting married from a mutual friend saying, Charlene loves your photography. She wants you to come and shoot the show. What? What? Yeah, she wants you to come down to where she is getting ready for the civil wedding tomorrow and she wants you to take pictures.

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94:36 - 94:36 Joe Rogan

Wow.

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94:37 - 94:44 Julian Lennon

I mean, you want to talk about anxiety and crapping yourself? Excuse me.

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94:47 - 95:14 Joe Rogan

This episode is brought to you by WWE Raw on Netflix. Starting January 6, 2025, Monday Night Raw is coming to Netflix live. All the insane athleticism, the over-the-top drama, and the kind of action that has you yelling at your screen. Clotheslines, power bombs, surprise entrances. It's all there. Get ready to kick back on a Monday night streaming these legends of the ring doing what they do best.

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95:14 - 95:40 Joe Rogan

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95:40 - 96:04 Joe Rogan

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96:05 - 96:27 Joe Rogan

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96:28 - 96:55 Julian Lennon

I arrive at the hotel where she and all the maids of honors are. I'm sitting in the lobby and I've got a backpack and one camera. And I've tried to dress myself up a little bit. I don't know what's going to happen. I had to go through several layers of security, roadblocks and all this to get there, which was nerve-wracking to say the least anyway. And then...

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96:56 - 97:26 Julian Lennon

The likes of Patrick de Marchelier, you know, one of the best photographers in the world, walks in with, you know, the suitcase trolleys, you know, those ones at the hotel, the big ones on wheels with all his equipment on. Three or four trolleys and there's – I've got a backpack, you know. Yeah. Anyway, I go upstairs. I'm placed in front of her in a room probably about similar to this size.

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97:26 - 97:43 Julian Lennon

And she's sitting there completely blanked out in front of the mirror with the hairdresser, the hairdresser's assistant and their assistant, the makeup artist, the makeup artist's assistant. Is that you? Yeah, that's me. Yeah.

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97:44 - 97:44 Joe Rogan

Oh, wow.

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97:44 - 98:10 Julian Lennon

Yeah. So I'm in the book a few times. That'll be a questionnaire at one point. That'll be a quiz at one point. How many times am I in the book? I don't even know myself, to be honest. But so I sit next to her and you've got all these people, 20 people in a room this size doing things, trying to get her ready 10 minutes before she's getting married. And they put me on this little poof next to her.

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98:10 - 98:41 Julian Lennon

I'm sitting next to her and she's and I'm saying, Are you okay? Should I just take pictures? She said, Jules, I'm not sure what to do. I don't know what to do. I'm going, what do you mean? You don't know what to do about... the marriage or me taking pictures. She said, no, no, Jules, it's the photos. I said, listen, this is historic.

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98:42 - 99:10 Julian Lennon

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to record what's going to happen to you. And exciting for me, too, to be a part of that as a photographer. And so I said, listen, I'll keep out the way. I'm a fly on the wall. You know, I won't be anywhere. And I was thinking, how am I going to do this? How do I do this? And so I just start. I just let people get on and I'm taking pictures.

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99:10 - 99:43 Julian Lennon

And I get a message from Vogue, Vogue.com, who want a photo from me the moment she's married. And I'm thinking, OK, I'll just keep snapping away at whatever I do. And I watch The Civil Wedding and then I get on my bike, go home and start putting things up on the screen. And I'm looking at pictures going, I've got fuck all. I've got shit. I can't. This looks like crap to me.

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99:44 - 100:17 Julian Lennon

And this happens to me every time. Every fucking time. And I'm looking at the pictures going, they look terrible. They really, really look terrible. Blurred and this and that and badly positioned and... I'm cursing myself. And the one thing that I remembered that she said to me is that, look, whatever you do, don't let any picture have me drinking or smoking in it. And I went, oh, OK.

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100:17 - 100:49 Julian Lennon

And the one thing that Vogue said to me is we want to see her smiling. And the one picture where she was smiling... And she had champagne in her hand and she had a cigarette. So, OK, I was not a Photoshop kind of guy, but I managed to get rid of the cigarette. I'm thinking, OK, how do I get deal with the champagne shit? And then the one thing occurred to me. I thought, OK, I'll do it.

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100:51 - 101:19 Julian Lennon

I'll desaturate it. Not black and white, but it'll have an there'll be elements of tones. I'll make it, you know, so you can't see that it's champagne. And I did that and I cropped it in a certain way. And I went, that's it. Why didn't I think of this before? You know, 1930s, 40s, 50s, Princess Grace, black and white, old school. So then I turned every picture I had black and white.

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101:19 - 101:42 Julian Lennon

Well, desaturated version similar to black and white of of the whole collection I had of her. and cropped it in a way that it was like 1950s magazines. It's just certain angles and a different look and a different feel. Was she okay with the champagne being in the photo? Well, it didn't look like champagne.

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101:42 - 102:15 Julian Lennon

It just looked like fizzy water because on the side there had been bottles of fizzy water and still water. So I went, that's cool. She had to give me the okay to do that. When we decided that should be the cover of this book, I had to get her approval. I mean I already had approval for having her pictures in a collection or a box set but not on the front cover of a book that may do well. Right.

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102:17 - 102:24 Joe Rogan

Have you ever been to Disneyland? Yeah. Oh, God. Do you know all the pictures of Walt Disney have his cigarette Photoshopped out of his hand?

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102:24 - 102:25 Julian Lennon

No, I did not know that.

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102:26 - 102:45 Joe Rogan

In every picture, you see him like this. Is that so? See if you can find some of those pictures because it's really interesting once you know that they Photoshopped it. There's a guy that we've had as a tour there. Shout out to Flander. Awesome guy who works there. And he gave us this sort of history of Walt Disney. Walt Disney died of lung cancer.

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102:45 - 102:45 Joe Rogan

Right.

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102:46 - 103:08 Joe Rogan

Which you would think it would be probably a good thing to have the cigarettes so people could know, oh, that poor guy, that's what killed him. But instead they've decided to whitewash it and Photoshop. So all of his photographs – That's too funny. Look at his fingers are always in a position where he would have a cigarette. All of them.

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103:08 - 103:10 Julian Lennon

That's so funny.

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103:10 - 103:14 Joe Rogan

And so those real moments of him having a cigarette are lost forever.

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103:14 - 103:16 Julian Lennon

Whose idea was it to get rid of the cigarettes?

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103:16 - 103:35 Joe Rogan

Disneyland. You know, Disneyland did not want. After the fact. Yeah. I mean, let's see. There's a person that says there. It says, the action is seemingly innocuous at first, but it's apparently a murky tribute to Walt Disney's smoking habits, with the company sidestepping around the reason as to why the icon pointed that way. writes HuffPost. It's been long speculated about.

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103:35 - 103:55 Joe Rogan

The anonymous employee was informed by a lead that the strange gesture from the cast members at Disney Park is actually based on Walt's old smoking habit. So people do that two-fingered gesture to each other? Yeah. That's crazy. Allegedly began training employees to do the same thing. Part tribute to the great man, part rewriting history.

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103:55 - 104:06 Joe Rogan

So they tried to pretend that that thing that he was doing, like Tom Hanks, when he played him, he did that thing with his finger. But it's all bullshit. It was a cigarette smoker, like a constant cigarette smoker.

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104:06 - 104:08 Jamie

Oh, yeah. I was one of those.

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104:08 - 104:10 Joe Rogan

Is there any photos of him with a cigarette?

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104:10 - 104:11 Jamie

You're talking about it in 2014.

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104:11 - 104:17 Joe Rogan

No, that's me. That's funny. Well, that's when I found out about it. That's when Philander gave us a tour.

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104:17 - 104:19 Jamie

They stopped doing it right around then.

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104:19 - 104:38 Joe Rogan

Oh, gotcha. I gotcha, bitch. I got them all to stop doing it. Because it's fucking stupid. Like, the guy smoked cigarettes. Yeah, smoking cigarettes is bad for you. He died from smoking cigarettes. You should probably let people know. You're doing a disservice to the whole world. Yeah, for sure. And also, it's...

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104:40 - 104:47 Joe Rogan

You know, it's a part of history in the fact that so many people were unaware of the dangers of smoking cigarettes all day.

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104:47 - 105:11 Julian Lennon

And it's so insanely addictive. I used to be an insane smoker. Yeah. How'd you quit? Cold turkey. Wow. Yeah, I'd be one of those guys that would wake up at four in the morning and light up a cigarette and then go back to sleep. Wow. Or I'd take about two or three packs out with me every evening. Really? Oh, yeah, because I knew half of the people would nick half of my cigarettes.

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105:11 - 105:12 Joe Rogan

Of course. So I wanted to have backup.

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105:13 - 105:25 Julian Lennon

Oh, boy. Now, when the whole no smoking law came, you know, Italy was one of the first. Really? And Ireland. Yeah, I think it was California that initiated it.

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105:25 - 105:26 Jamie

Mm-hmm.

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105:27 - 105:57 Julian Lennon

And then Europe took it on board, and it was actually Italy and Ireland, and I was in both of those places, and it was extremely weird to go into any, especially in Italy, and Ireland in the pubs, and for it to be a smoke-free environment. That was just so weird because it was part of the norm back in the day that you'd be In a cloud of stinky cigarette smoke.

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105:57 - 106:00 Julian Lennon

Yeah, that was... In any of those locations.

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106:00 - 106:05 Joe Rogan

Our norm at comedy clubs. Yeah. Yeah, I would go home from comedy clubs every night smelling like cigarettes.

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106:05 - 106:05 Julian Lennon

Yeah.

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106:05 - 106:08 Joe Rogan

Always. For sure. The whole audience would be smoking.

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106:08 - 106:33 Julian Lennon

And as a smoker, you don't think... You're not conscious of how other people... How you stink as well. Right. Which, you know... Because it was funny. When I quit Cold Turkey, I did it. I did it because... I didn't want anybody to tell me I couldn't smoke. I was such a brat. That's why you quit cold turkey?

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106:33 - 107:02 Julian Lennon

I quit cold turkey because I wanted to tell myself I couldn't smoke, not for you to tell me I couldn't smoke. How rough was it? That's what brought me down into a depression for a couple of years. Oh, yeah, because I... Listen, I started smoking at the age of probably 11 or 12 as part of my local gang, you know, that I used to be in as a kid. That's what you did.

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107:02 - 107:35 Julian Lennon

You know, you nicked ciggies from your parents and you'd... and the back of the school, and that was part of the initiation, you know, the part of growing up. And I loved it because for me, when I became noticed as a musician, again, with my anxiety, and I was a very shy kid, very, very shy kid, still can be at times depending on how I feel that day.

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107:39 - 108:01 Julian Lennon

I would yeah I would cigarette for me was my best friend you know I'd go to a bar and I'd be able to I'd be the you know not the cool guy at the bar but certainly that would be my way of not having to interact with people right you know I just sit there and you know be a rocker and smoke my ciggy and down my Jack Daniels and that's like leave me the fuck alone you know right

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108:02 - 108:31 Julian Lennon

Unless I, you know, wanted to talk. So that was the groove back then. And then when I gave that up, you know, instantly, it was like, what do I do? How do I fill in that void? Well, I actually had to speak to people. Is that what caused the depression? Well, no, no, no. It was actually, I feel it was definitely a chemical thing because, again, I... I was smoking a couple of packs a day.

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108:32 - 108:54 Julian Lennon

I loved smoking. Did you consider going back just to alleviate the depression? Actually, a business manager friend of mine at the time saw me at one stage and said, Jules, pick up a fucking cigarette, please. Seriously. And he said, you're going to die the way you're going. Wow.

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108:54 - 108:56 Joe Rogan

Pick up a cigarette because you're going to die without it.

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108:57 - 109:17 Julian Lennon

Yeah. That was literally his sentiment. Wow. And it was a few years where it was very, very dark. And it was the cigarettes. No question about it. Did you try patches or gum? Yeah, I did all of that stuff. Did it help? No. Not really. I loved that deep inhale.

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109:17 - 109:19 Joe Rogan

It's the delivery method.

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109:19 - 109:50 Julian Lennon

It's different than anything else. And the thing was, I would still challenge most good singing friends of mine that I could hold my breath or do lengths in a swimming pool underwater. and hold my breath better than anybody else, which I was able to. And it's because I was such a deep, deep smoker. When I inhaled, I really, really inhaled.

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109:50 - 109:52 Joe Rogan

So it was like lung exercises?

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109:53 - 110:22 Julian Lennon

Literally, literally. And I remember going for my certain... Yeah, seriously, I consider myself a shallow breather now in comparison. Except for when I go on these kind of power walks, you know. Wow. Trying to get it all in anymore. But, yeah, no, I bought a little apparatus, which I still haven't been procrastinating about it. But it's an exerciser. Yeah, I have one of those. Yeah, to expand.

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110:22 - 110:23 Julian Lennon

It's an O2 trainer.

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110:23 - 110:23 Joe Rogan

Yeah.

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110:23 - 110:25 Julian Lennon

Yeah, there you go. So I haven't done it yet.

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110:25 - 110:27 Joe Rogan

Yeah, you put like little lenses on it or little wheels.

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110:27 - 110:35 Julian Lennon

Well, you just change the inhalation volume. Yeah, it's less. Back and forth. Less of an opening. So you just train to.

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110:35 - 110:37 Joe Rogan

My friend Boss Rutten created one.

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110:37 - 110:43 Julian Lennon

Very good. Yeah. I mean, I know that they work. I just haven't gotten around to it. But yeah.

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110:43 - 110:51 Joe Rogan

Well, just breathing exercises alone are great. Yeah. You can achieve some very bizarre altered states of consciousness through breathing exercises.

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110:51 - 111:24 Julian Lennon

Well, when I was, I mean, you know, the COVID experience was very, very different for very many people. Yeah. Where I was in Monaco in France, you weren't allowed to leave your house without written paperwork to the police that you were going out for one hour. And you could only go within one kilometer unless you were going to get groceries where you could only go out for a limited amount of time.

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111:25 - 111:53 Julian Lennon

If you didn't have the paperwork with you, you'd be fined. So I started using quite a few apps to calm myself and take on deep breath and deep focus because I felt trapped, especially as someone who loved walking, who loved biking, who loved exploring, all of that stuff, and I couldn't move. And here's the really...

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111:56 - 112:29 Julian Lennon

annoying thing was that where I was was quite close to the sea, a couple of hundred yards away. But as I said, I could only be in a one kilometer circle from where I was. But that half of that was in the sea. Wow. And so I could walk left and right to try and get 5K in back and forth, you know, at least 5K to try and get a good walk in.

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112:30 - 112:42 Julian Lennon

But you weren't allowed on the beach, which was the most to sit there and contemplate and breathe and just, you know, try and relax. One of the healthiest things you can do. Yeah. You weren't allowed to do that.

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112:43 - 112:51 Joe Rogan

Everyone lost their fucking mind. And it was really strange. In California, they were arresting people. The Coast Guard was arresting people for surfing.

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113:25 - 113:25 Joe Rogan

Good.

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113:26 - 114:00 Julian Lennon

Anyway, so along the path ahead of me, about a quarter of a mile, I see a number of bobbing heads. And I wasn't wearing a mask. You had to wear a mask even when you're out power walking on your own. Because of science. Of course. Genius. Well, let's not get into that. But yeah. And so over the ridge they come. And I noticed that one of the person at the front is wearing a police hat. Oh, great.

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114:00 - 114:26 Julian Lennon

And so I'm trying to scramble putting my mask on. And he's taking out, going for a run with a bunch of trainers, trainees, you know, about eight other people from the police force. They're all gunned up and truncheoned and everything else. And the guy's going off on me in French saying, wear your fucking mask.

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114:28 - 114:58 Julian Lennon

And I'm going... And he says to me, you know, I understand a little bit, a good amount of French, and I can speak a little bit, but I... He said, who are you with? And I'm looking around... There's nobody for half a mile anywhere near me. And he's asking me, who am I with? And I'm thinking, what's that about? This is the weirdest scenario. I'm in the middle of nowhere on a rocky peninsula.

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114:59 - 115:15 Julian Lennon

And he's asking me who I'm with. And there's nobody. And, you know, to put my mask back on, otherwise I'd be in trouble. And it was just the most surreal, peculiar circumstance to be, you know.

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115:15 - 115:26 Joe Rogan

Well, you could have never imagined it before the pandemic. You could have never imagined a scenario where people would be that illogical. Wearing a mask outside, illogical. Not being able to go to the beach, illogical.

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115:26 - 115:32 Julian Lennon

I still love the fact that you see people sitting on their own in cars today wearing a mask. Oh, yeah.

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115:32 - 115:59 Joe Rogan

Well, if you go to Los Angeles, my friend just went to a party. And he sent me a photograph. He's like, I'm at a Hollywood party. Everyone's wearing a fucking mask. These people are in a cult. First of all, if you haven't read the 500-page synopsis on what all went wrong with COVID, everyone should read it. Just understand the whole six-feet distance, all that stuff is all made up.

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115:59 - 116:27 Joe Rogan

It's all bullshit. Yeah. Masks don't work. They don't work unless you have like a face-fitting mask. And even that, you're getting oxygen in the particle, like viral particles in the oxygen are smaller than vape particles. Like if you vape with one of those things on, then put it out, or you take a big deep breath, put the mask on, the vape will come right through the fucking mask.

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116:27 - 116:28 Joe Rogan

So will the virus.

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116:28 - 116:29 Julian Lennon

Right.

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116:29 - 116:55 Joe Rogan

Like this is not real. You're pretending. And it's forced compliance, illogical forced compliance, which was very disturbing. It was very disturbing for me to see how many people were reinforcing that too, how many people were yelling at other people. It gave people a wonderful opportunity to be assholes where they could yell at people for not having a mask on. But outside? Really? The logic.

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116:56 - 117:20 Joe Rogan

It was out the window. But it was also really fascinating to watch human nature. The human nature of, first of all, that people really do enjoy controlling people. They really do enjoy telling people what the rules are and punishing people who disobey the rules, even if they don't make any sense. And then also watching people comply, knowing it's illogical, and being upset at everyone that...

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117:20 - 117:43 Joe Rogan

points out that it's illogical that doesn't make any sense like you're the enemy because you're not going along with you're making it harder for us we have to get through this like how is this real yeah yeah strange yeah no i yeah stay away from everybody that's the the only solution or go to a place well i came here well they didn't embrace any of that

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117:43 - 118:07 Joe Rogan

Like I was in Los Angeles, which is like the most compliant place. Everybody was all in, all in on the public narrative that was being expressed in the mainstream media, all in on, you know, everybody who denies it is an anti-science person and you're anti this and anti that. Just get that vaccine and just get on board with this beautiful little thing we're going to do.

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118:07 - 118:25 Joe Rogan

We're going to get through this together as long as everyone complies. And if you don't comply and if your neighbors aren't complying, here's a number you can call. People started ratting out their neighbors. It was a program that the mayor of Los Angeles ran. Normally snitches get stitches, but this way snitches get rewards.

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118:26 - 118:30 Joe Rogan

They were giving people money to rat out their neighbors for having parties.

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118:30 - 118:31 Julian Lennon

Yeah, it's beyond messed up.

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118:32 - 118:35 Joe Rogan

Oh, so strange. And it doesn't seem real.

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118:35 - 118:38 Julian Lennon

And people are eager as well to join that club.

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118:38 - 118:59 Joe Rogan

Eager. So happy they're a part of it. My friend Hassan found a pair of pants that he was in his apartment, and he pulled out a mask out of the pocket. It's like, fuck, when was the last time I wore these? There's a mask. And when you see a mask... And you realize, like, I had a mask that was in my truck that was in, like, one of the back little compartments on the side.

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118:59 - 119:09 Joe Rogan

It just happened to be sitting there. And I was cleaning the truck. I'm like, look at this fucking stupid thing. This was just two years ago. You had to have these things. You wanted to get on a plane.

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119:09 - 119:10 Julian Lennon

Seems like a bad dream.

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119:11 - 119:17 Joe Rogan

It does. It's like Disney and the fucking cigarettes. Are they going to Photoshop out all these people's masks in the future?

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119:17 - 119:25 Julian Lennon

It's all a bit surreal. So strange. It really is. It's all a bit odd. I still don't get it. I don't get any of it.

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119:26 - 119:26 Joe Rogan

You shouldn't.

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119:26 - 119:30 Julian Lennon

Hopefully these viruses... No, especially those.

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119:30 - 119:45 Joe Rogan

...released don't wind up becoming the next one. I used to think there's no way that people would want that to happen. I'm not so sure anymore. No. After this last go around, I'm like, boy, there might be like sinister factors at work here that I don't.

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119:45 - 119:46 Julian Lennon

Oh, without question.

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119:46 - 119:47 Joe Rogan

Yeah.

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119:47 - 119:49 Julian Lennon

I'm sure of that.

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119:50 - 120:07 Joe Rogan

And I was unwilling to ever think that way before. I was like, come on, that's stupid. No one's that evil. No one would do that just for profit. And now I'm like, I don't know. Of course they are. They probably would. Oh, they would. Yeah. They would. No question. No question. So strange. So strange.

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120:08 - 120:37 Joe Rogan

And then, you know, that I think the frustration of the overcomplicated, overregulated, overcontrolled world is probably what accentuates the experience of you being in South America with a fire looking at the stars. Yeah. You know, because... There's a purity to that, especially no phones, no computer, no screens, no nothing. Just human beings enjoying an experience on the planet.

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120:37 - 121:10 Julian Lennon

It's funny because I'm in the process of moving. I mean, I still have my base in Monaco, but the little place I had outside. A lot of my... later teenage years where mum remarried a couple of times but we were in North Wales. I don't know if you're familiar with North Wales or Wales in general. It's mountains. Sheep and mountains.

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121:13 - 121:40 Julian Lennon

So, yeah, we lived in farmland, on farmland, and I used to work on a farm too. So I loved, and that's where I actually learned how to ride a motorbike, you know, on farmland and through rivers and enduros and stuff like that. And so I've always loved that element of countryside.

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121:40 - 121:53 Julian Lennon

I always liked the excitement of a city and the people and the energy, but there's also that other side of peace and quiet and birdsong and running water. Yeah, yeah.

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121:53 - 121:58 Joe Rogan

The key is like a little bit of New York City, a little bit of mountains. That's the key to life.

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121:58 - 122:18 Julian Lennon

Yeah. So I'm in the process of – I've just – and I hate this terminology, forever home. But I certainly think it's a place that I'll be for a while. Do you hate the terminology of home? No. Forever. Oh. This is going to be my forever home. Oh, yeah. It's so –

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122:18 - 122:24 Joe Rogan

Yeah. I like moving. I really enjoyed moving here. I like getting up and just being in a new place.

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122:25 - 122:47 Julian Lennon

Yeah. I think it's good for the brain. I think I've been at the same place for over 26 years through some very good things but some pretty dark moments as well, whether that's relationships or friendships and things like that. And I finally decided a few years ago I need to change. Where are you going? I'm very close by.

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122:47 - 123:07 Julian Lennon

I mean, I'm literally 15 minutes away, but it's just a different environment up in the mountains. Okay. Surrounded by, you know, beautiful old oak trees and walking paths. I mean, I know I sound like I'm turning old all of a sudden.

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123:07 - 123:10 Joe Rogan

No, you sound like someone who appreciates beautiful things. I just want...

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123:11 - 123:40 Julian Lennon

You know, the funny thing is when I went to see this place for the first time, my shoulders just dropped. And it was, I don't want to leave here. You know, the rest of the world seemed very alien after walking onto this property. I just went, okay, a couple of acres of land surrounded by beautiful old trees and peace and quiet and...

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123:41 - 123:53 Joe Rogan

I have thoughts on that. I think that nature is a vitamin that we don't know we need. Absolutely. No question about it. Yeah, you get it and then you're filled up and you're like, oh, this is what I was missing.

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123:53 - 124:04 Julian Lennon

I mean, that also the whole, you know, tree hugging, earthing thing. Yeah, it's real. I believe absolutely 100%. It's real. It's real. You feel better. I mean, scientifically proven.

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124:04 - 124:10 Joe Rogan

Yeah, we have a connection to Earth that's been muted by our shoes. Correct.

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124:10 - 124:11 Julian Lennon

This is very, very true.

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124:11 - 124:15 Joe Rogan

Yeah, it's weird. It's weird to think that way, but it's absolutely correct.

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124:15 - 124:33 Julian Lennon

You know, you can put, and I have done this too, that you can get earthing sheets that you can sleep on. I don't know. You know, I sleep on one. I don't know if it works or not. It probably does something. Yeah, but what? I don't know.

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124:34 - 124:35 Joe Rogan

Just get outside.

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124:35 - 124:35 Julian Lennon

Yeah.

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124:35 - 124:54 Joe Rogan

I think get outside is the move. And if you can get outside barefoot, it's even better. This is very, very true. The other day I was playing with my dog in the backyard and I was throwing the ball for him. And he just decides – he's kind of lazy. Sometimes he just decides to lay down. So I just sat down with him. And it was just this amazing moment of him just wagging his tail.

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124:54 - 125:17 Joe Rogan

you know me petting him and just sitting in the yard just trees and birds and just that's beautiful that's it it's a beautiful peaceful moment that i just experienced with my dog that's it two of us chilling that's it really really it was a beautiful moment i was thinking in that time like this is so simple it's just a simple beautiful moment and you know if you try to explain it to people

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125:18 - 125:32 Joe Rogan

Most people are probably not going to get it. Okay, yeah, you and your dog. You love your dog. Like, no, that's not it. No. It's like it was just life. It was just like this moment of life just recognizing and also not thinking about anything else, which is also beautiful.

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125:32 - 125:45 Julian Lennon

Not thinking about Gaza. Yeah. Not thinking about Ukraine. It's about that little moment of appreciation here and now. Thank you very much. And how that can be beyond beneficial to you on –

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125:47 - 126:15 Joe Rogan

But then even explaining that, unfortunately, has been co-opted by the term mindfulness, which is so often used by grifters and fake gurus and dorks. It's one of those words that you say, and you're like, Mindfulness. I hate saying it. I'm a spiritual person. Oh, shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. I can't take it. I get it. But those terms are valuable. It's like the term God.

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126:15 - 126:18 Joe Rogan

It's a valuable term. Love is a valuable term.

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126:19 - 126:28 Joe Rogan

But so often they just get ruined just by insincerity or just by people who use it as a way to define themselves.

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126:28 - 126:30 Julian Lennon

For sure. Hijacked. They've been hijacked.

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126:31 - 126:33 Joe Rogan

Hijacked. Yeah, that's it.

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126:33 - 126:37 Julian Lennon

Yeah, which is very sad actually because it just – Yeah, we can take it back.

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126:38 - 126:40 Joe Rogan

Probably. We can take it back from those hijackers. Fuck them.

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126:43 - 126:44 Julian Lennon

I'm in. I'm in.

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126:45 - 126:48 Joe Rogan

Yeah, I mean, do you know who Alex Gray is?

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126:49 - 126:49 Julian Lennon

No.

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126:49 - 127:06 Joe Rogan

Alex Gray is a visionary artist. He does a lot of very, very intricate psychedelic pieces that are iconic. He's very famous in the psychedelic world. His stuff is really, really beautiful.

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127:06 - 127:06 Julian Lennon

I'm sure you have.

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127:07 - 127:32 Joe Rogan

He's very, very famous. Oh, yeah. But we were talking about this and he said that he took the term God back because he's like, I think the term God has been co-opted by this idea of these totalitarian religions that impose very strict rules and dogma on people. He's like, I don't think we should stop using that word just because of that. I think we can kind of take that word back.

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127:33 - 127:35 Julian Lennon

It would be good to. Yeah.

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127:35 - 128:02 Joe Rogan

Well, I think he kind of has. He actually has a church. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like he had to go through a whole thing to acquire tax-exempt status. But his church is this insane building that is all 3D printed with his type of psychedelic artwork. So it looks like – some insane, like, magical spiritual retreat that you would find somewhere.

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128:03 - 128:06 Joe Rogan

Like, see if we can find... It's called the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors.

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128:06 - 128:06 Joe Rogan

Where is this?

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128:07 - 128:24 Joe Rogan

Upstate New York. Upstate New York. So it's not that far from the city. You can get there fairly quickly. And it's, you know, a completely different world. And he's got this church up there that's filled with his insane artwork. But this church itself is a piece of artwork. Like, the outside of it, the way...

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128:25 - 128:46 Joe Rogan

You know, he has a lot of these images of these faces that are like multiple sides of faces all connected together. And this is like this. Oh, wow. Yeah. So this is the outside of his building. It's really incredible. That's the building. Whoa. Isn't that amazing?

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128:46 - 129:06 Joe Rogan

So the building is very, very much like his type of tryptamine-inspired art, where you have all these third eyes in a fractal form, this geometric pattern on the roof, and everything is like that. It's really amazing. Phenomenal. And he had been working on it forever.

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129:08 - 129:10 Julian Lennon

Is he professing anything?

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129:11 - 129:35 Joe Rogan

I don't know what his keep phone. Is there an order as such? I mean, that's Alex when he was very young. Yeah. But he's been, you know, in the sort of psychedelic space and psychedelic art space forever. And he had this incredible place in New York City. And then he decided to do this whole church. Just click it right there and just like play it out. Yeah.

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129:36 - 129:38 Jamie

I don't really know what the video is. Okay. It's 20 minutes long.

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129:39 - 129:45 Joe Rogan

I see. So a lot of his... So that's his wife.

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129:45 - 129:52 Julian Lennon

Is this derived from... Yeah. Like acid and magic mushrooms.

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129:52 - 130:16 Joe Rogan

It says it right there. It comes out of the psychedelic experience. Okay. Yeah. He's been a longtime proponent of... psychedelics just a very very interesting guy and his artwork is just incredible like really but like probably the most accurate encapsulation of these experiences in you know in an artistic form really wild stuff

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130:20 - 130:35 Joe Rogan

And, again, this is, you know, the way he's got it set up now, he's in the woods. So he's in this beautiful, like, rural area. And then he's got this incredible chapel that's up there. So it's pretty fucking cool.

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130:37 - 130:57 Julian Lennon

Well, I'm certainly a believer in other realms that we don't see on a daily basis. Yeah. Probably should be. I've had a few experiences that would – whether that's a dream within a dream or whether it's reality, I don't actually know.

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130:57 - 131:04 Joe Rogan

Well, one of the things that I've talked to about with some pretty insanely brilliant people is quantum computing.

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131:05 - 131:05 Julian Lennon

Oh, yes.

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131:05 - 131:20 Joe Rogan

And this new Google quantum computer that can do essentially the way a quantum computer works, a problem that would take thousands of years for every computer on Earth to solve.

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131:20 - 131:21 Joe Rogan

I've read that.

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131:21 - 131:31 Joe Rogan

It can solve in a second. Yeah. something that can take more years than you literally can understand, it can be solved in 15 minutes.

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131:31 - 131:32 Julian Lennon

Yeah, I read that.

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131:32 - 132:00 Joe Rogan

It's insane. And this is where it gets really weird. The way it was explained to me, and we should have to Google how quantum computers work and why people connect them to the multiverse so I don't fuck this up, but the idea is that they're pulling answers from different universes simultaneously. They don't even completely understand how this is working.

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132:01 - 132:25 Joe Rogan

But the amount of power in computing is incomprehensible. Incomprehensible. You're only looking at it, and there's numbers. You could write all those numbers out, but your brain's not capable of grasping really what's going on. And it's probably the biggest breakthrough technologically in human history by a long stretch.

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132:25 - 132:40 Joe Rogan

And it's all happening without most people even being aware of what the implications are. So see if you can Google an explanation of how quantum computers work. Was it Marc Andreessen that was explaining to us that it's pulling from different universes?

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132:40 - 132:45 Jamie

No, no, that is being talked about in the wording of the Willow description.

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132:45 - 132:45 Joe Rogan

Right.

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132:46 - 132:56 Jamie

But I also, just to add, when I was reading about this, they said that these benchmark numbers are coming off of Google's own data. They're the ones that set the scale of...

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132:58 - 133:21 Jamie

what some of the quantum are you skeptical is that what you're saying i'm i'm just no no bullshit on google no not at all not at all not at all no no i'm just a grain of salt like just to say that like except i think they use uh tillions is the number or something like that no one even can grasp that yeah that's just based but that's a number based off of their formula too right that's right what is the the definition of how it works

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133:22 - 133:25 Joe Rogan

The way it pulls from multiple universes.

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133:26 - 133:38 Jamie

I'm trying to find it, but I think the understanding I got from it was it's just too powerful to get from our universe alone. You'd have to have more than one. Like, what does that mean?

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133:38 - 133:39 Joe Rogan

How do they even...

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133:40 - 133:42 Jamie

Exactly. What does that mean?

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133:42 - 134:06 Joe Rogan

What is that thing that they have? And if you've ever seen the chip itself, the chip itself is very small. It's like the size of a saltine cracker. And then this entire mechanism around it is just the insane amount of cooling. Okay. Google's quantum AI founder said the performance gains lends credence to the idea that we live in a multiverse.

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134:07 - 134:17 Joe Rogan

The idea is that Willow might be communicating with parallel universes to finish calculations faster. Like, what does that mean?

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134:18 - 134:41 Joe Rogan

The announcement led Google's already high stock price to surge, which isn't that shocking, but perhaps most surprising for us laypeople that Google's quantum AI founder and lead, Harmut Nevin, said that the chip's performance lends credence to the notion that quantum computation occurs in many parallel universes in line with the idea that we live in a multiverse. And then it says, excuse me?

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134:41 - 135:02 Joe Rogan

The... This obviously has caused a bit of a stir, and it isn't exactly clear on how he made that leap. It sounds a bit like something out of a sci-fi movie, and I'm definitely not going to pretend I'm an expert, but it's worth pointing out that Google is very much still in the theoretical research phase of this journey. This is very weird stuff.

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135:03 - 135:28 Joe Rogan

An evolving scientific field that even people working on it don't fully understand. What? Okay, here's what is a quantum computer. Let's explain this. The computer we use every day and have been iterating on for the past several decades are what is known as a classical computer. Essentially, a classical computer utilizes binary as its language of choice.

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135:28 - 135:53 Joe Rogan

A bit in the smallest unit of data that a computer can store and process is like a light switch. Each bit can only be in a single state at a time, on or off. which is represented by zero or one. Computers track data based on the language of bits. Literally anything our computers do is based on a network of on-off switches sending a particular signal. A quantum computer is a bit different.

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135:53 - 136:11 Joe Rogan

If you're familiar with the concept of superposition or Schrodinger's cat, This won't be too far of a stretch, but a quantum bit or qubit is capable of representing the potential of multiple states at once. Rather than only recording a 1 or a 0, it records both because it can be both.

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136:12 - 136:33 Joe Rogan

This allows a chip like Willow, which has 105 qubits, to perform incredibly complicated analytics in a fraction of the time a classical computer could. And how does it work? So let's boil it down to a very small example. If you have two bits which can return a value of 1 or 0, there are four potential states that it can be recorded. 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, and 1, 0.

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136:34 - 136:57 Joe Rogan

If each of these states takes one second to record, it would take a classical computer four seconds to record every position permutation, every possible permutation. A quantum computer made up of two qubits, however, would be able to send to record the potential of each qubit at once, meaning it could record all four positions, all four possible states in one second.

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136:57 - 137:17 Joe Rogan

The real power here is achieved when you add a much higher number of qubits together and try to record every possible state. Once again, something that would take a classical computer far longer can be achieved quickly because a quantum computer can record a number of potential states at once rather than one at a time. Okay, we basically don't know what the fuck we're saying here.

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137:17 - 137:38 Joe Rogan

This is just too weird. Okay, so this is what it is. One of the world's most advanced classical computers. Okay, here it is with this problem. So AI's founder and lead, Hartmut Nevin, said that the new chip had performed a purposefully complicated exercise called a random circuit sampling benchmark in five minutes.

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137:39 - 137:52 Joe Rogan

One of the world's most advanced classical supercomputers, on the other hand, it would take 10 and then three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros.

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137:54 - 138:14 Joe Rogan

years to perform the same exercise that's 10 septillion years which exceeds known time scales in physics and vastly exceeds the age of the universe so it can do more time than vastly exceeds the entire age of the universe and it can do it in five minutes

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138:14 - 138:32 Joe Rogan

And the reason it could achieve such a monumental improvement in calculating capacity is because Willow is made above 105 qubits and can track the potential of each of those at once, allowing it to record potential data much faster and come to the right answer sooner. So, like, what is happening?

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138:33 - 138:34 Julian Lennon

That's too much information.

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138:34 - 138:35 Joe Rogan

What is?

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138:35 - 138:37 Julian Lennon

What do you mean? I get it, but I don't get it.

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138:38 - 138:48 Joe Rogan

I don't get how does that prove the multiverse or provide evidence that the multiverse is real? And that it's getting it from parallel universes?

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138:48 - 139:17 Julian Lennon

What are we even saying here? That it couldn't come up with those answers within the allotted time span that's... Yeah. What? Yeah. I can't even explain. I mean, funnily enough, this is that my brother's into all of this stuff, Sean. In simpler language. He would probably be able to explain it to you, Sean. Probably. Well, he would give it a shot. He would, certainly.

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139:17 - 139:40 Joe Rogan

I think he was the one that was probably explaining it to us. In simpler language, Willow is doing one calculation while an unknown number of Willows in other universes parallel to our own are doing their own calculations, and they are sharing that data to avoid needing to individually do every possible calculation to finish the equation. What the fuck does that mean?

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140:04 - 140:05 Julian Lennon

What does this mean for me?

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140:05 - 140:08 Joe Rogan

Keep that going. Put that back on. Scroll up a little bit.

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140:09 - 140:09 Jamie

It's right here.

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140:09 - 140:20 Joe Rogan

Okay, this is what I wanted to look at. At this point, it's an exciting look at what computing might take one day, but it isn't something you're going to see in your next Pixel phone. Quantum chips need to be isolated. Incredibly specific chambers. Yeah, this is the thing.

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140:21 - 140:41 Joe Rogan

It has to be cooled to a point where it's colder than outer space, sealed away from any possible signals such as microwaves, radiation, radio signals, et cetera, for fear of that noise leading to potential mistakes, and have specific signals delivered by purpose-built wires. Who figured this out? Where are those eggheads?

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140:43 - 140:48 Julian Lennon

Jesus Christ. How did they even come up with that if that has to be the case?

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140:48 - 140:51 Joe Rogan

How did they figure out that you have to do that? All of it.

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140:52 - 140:53 Julian Lennon

That's just brain damage.

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140:53 - 141:03 Joe Rogan

That's one of the most humbling things that I've found about doing this podcast is realizing how genuinely dumb we are in comparison to the amount of information that's available.

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141:03 - 141:03 Julian Lennon

No question.

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141:04 - 141:28 Joe Rogan

And I'm saying it's like not just uninformed but incapable even if given the information of grasping exactly what these apex minds are thinking and working on right now along with at the same time people just living in Ravello, just having an espresso and a cigarette and getting a slice of pizza.

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141:28 - 141:31 Julian Lennon

Maybe they realize and they just say, fuck it.

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141:32 - 141:56 Joe Rogan

But it seems like the human race desires all things. The human race desires people like yourself who enjoy photography and travel and this beautiful experience of life. But it also sort of requires people to be at this bizarre cutting edge of science where it seems to be violating the known laws of physics. Like all those things.

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141:57 - 142:12 Julian Lennon

It hurts my brain. I mean, I'd love to know more. Well, just think about what we're doing right now. Just think about what we're doing. I still don't get how a TV works or the radio. I'm still not. How does this work? I'm still back there.

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142:12 - 142:35 Joe Rogan

What makes this louder? What makes the microphone carry our voice? How is this being encoded into a form that's going to be instantaneously delivered to millions of people? So millions of people are hearing this right now. As it gets to them, not right now, but once it gets released, the millions of people that are hearing this are getting it through the sky on their phone. I resign.

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142:39 - 142:41 Julian Lennon

I truly resign on that level. I can't.

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142:42 - 142:50 Joe Rogan

It doesn't... No, I can't either, but it's pretty amazing. It's an amazing time to be alive.

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142:50 - 143:07 Julian Lennon

I'm fascinated by it every day, and that's why with... subjects that are happening with AI right now, I find massively intriguing because there is an element to that that may allow me to understand a great deal more before it's too late.

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143:08 - 143:23 Joe Rogan

I think we're the last of the regular people. It's quite possible. I think this experience that we're having, this experience that you're having like on a motorcycle with no signal, just driving through the countryside, like just being alive, I think we're the last of those people.

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143:23 - 144:03 Julian Lennon

Even that sounds like a dream though. I know. I mean just the whole concept of that is dream-worthy. Yeah. I mean, I have a number of theories on who we are and where we came from and UFOs. What do you think? Well, to some degree, I'd always felt even as a young kid that the UFOs were us coming back for history lessons basically and that the vehicles were driven by our minds anyway.

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144:07 - 144:31 Julian Lennon

But, I mean, I've seen, as Dad had also seen a UFO, I've clearly seen a UFO. What did you see? I was actually, here's the weird thing, I was actually on my way to, I think, visit Dad in New York. I think it was New York, which is where he'd seen one on the Upper East Side in an apartment that I visited. I went to see him at.

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144:33 - 145:03 Julian Lennon

He's standing on the roof of this apartment where he was living at the time. It's on film. He clearly says, this thing came along. I can tell you exactly what it looked like. Went up the Hudson, went under the bridge, and then zapped off. I've had two experiences, but the most profound was, funnily enough, was one of those flights on good old TWA.

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145:05 - 145:41 Julian Lennon

And I was in the front part of the plane, and I had been given, because I was quite young, maybe... Anyway, between 8 and 10, I don't know, 11 maybe. I was going to see dad for one of the first times in the US. And the guy that was escorting me over gave me one of those, first time I'd ever seen them, one of those books that had blank pages. I thought, wow, those are weird.

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145:42 - 146:10 Julian Lennon

You know, quite unusual. I'd never seen them over in England before. Just these hardback black covered books with nothing inside. So I had one of those in the colouring set. So I was, I guess, relatively young. Everybody had watched the movie. Everybody had gone to sleep. I was staring out the bloody window as I normally do. And I was in front of the wing on the right-hand side.

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146:12 - 146:47 Julian Lennon

And I'm just staring out at the stars, literally. And I kid you not, all of a sudden I see your archetypal UFO with the lights around, light on top. It was silver or, you know, reflective metal with pulsating white lights all the way around. It stayed there. I can't tell you how long.

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146:47 - 146:49 Joe Rogan

How far away from the plane was it?

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146:49 - 146:55 Julian Lennon

It was right there. It was 50 feet.

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146:56 - 146:57 Joe Rogan

50 feet from the wing of the plane?

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146:57 - 146:59 Julian Lennon

Yeah, yeah. In front of the wing of the plane.

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146:59 - 146:59 Joe Rogan

Did anybody else notice it?

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147:00 - 147:29 Julian Lennon

Nobody else was there. Everybody else was asleep. There was no stewardesses. Nobody was around. What about the pilots? That I don't know. All I know is what I saw. God, I would have wanted to ask them. I just, I guess I was kind of freaked out or just okay with it. I can't even. How old were you at the time? You know, 8, 9, 10, 11, something like that. And how big do you think it was?

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147:33 - 148:11 Julian Lennon

I would say it seemed about the radius would be about the width of this room. But what happened was, so I watched it for a few seconds, but I knew we were going along somewhere in between 300 and 500 miles an hour. I think the big old 747s used to reach that kind of speed. And it just started doing this. going up at the same speed. And I'm watching it through the window going up and over.

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148:12 - 148:43 Julian Lennon

And there was nobody in the seats on the other side. And so I ran to the other side and was at the window like this. And it was I was at a seat or two in front of where I actually wasn't here. And it came down the other side. This is my mother's life. I came down on the other side and sort of pitched itself there for a few seconds, proceeded to move forward.

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148:46 - 149:12 Julian Lennon

what looked like relatively quite slow and then literally just went and disappeared it forward and that was there and I and that was At sunrise, literally just turning to sunrise because I actually, the book I had, I drew the whole thing and the light and what it looked like. Do you still have those drawings? Okay, no. Damn. Tell me about it.

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149:12 - 149:22 Julian Lennon

I don't know what happened to that, but as clear as day, as clear as day. My life, my mother's life.

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149:22 - 149:40 Joe Rogan

Did you – and this is going to sound crazy – Did you have a sense that that was for you? That you weren't just seeing something, but that maybe that was for you? I could have taken that angle.

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149:44 - 150:21 Julian Lennon

I mean, there's been moments in my life, certainly, that I felt things have happened at a particular time for me to notice things, that it was related to my life experience. I mean, half of the things I couldn't tell you what they were, but I mean, white feather was an example of that. Right. Where for me, that was undoubtedly a sign, a relevant sign that made me certainly feel that

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150:23 - 150:32 Julian Lennon

and I'd had other experiences, that that was a real connection, a real message, indirectly.

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150:33 - 150:57 Joe Rogan

Yeah, well, the white feather is so profound. It's so intensely on the nose that it's very difficult to dismiss. And I know there's a lot of hyper-rational people that would like to dismiss it. It's just a coincidence. My question is, are you sure? Are you sure? You know, I don't think we are.

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150:58 - 151:08 Joe Rogan

I think this concept of the divine, this concept of being something else has existed throughout the entirety of human beings.

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151:08 - 151:42 Julian Lennon

There's all kinds of stuff going on. I mean, I've seen – I was invited to a location where I was staying – And I had this experience where I saw quite clearly I was on my own again, of course. And I was looking out to the sea. This was down in Mexico. And... And I was literally just kind of drifting off.

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151:42 - 152:19 Julian Lennon

And I, without question, at least I believe so, I saw, to me, what looked like Mayan Indians, see-through, dancing around a fire. And I went, what the fuck? I mean, I really kind of got a little scared. I went, what am I seeing? How am I seeing this? Why? Anyway, it was all a bit weird. And At the breakfast table the next day, and I'd never been to this place before.

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152:19 - 152:50 Julian Lennon

I was invited down as a guest, and the hostess said, you know, how did you sleep? Is everything all right? I said, well, I don't want to say anything, but I think I saw some see-through Mayan Indians last night. Oh, you didn't know that this was built on a Mayan Indian burial ground? I said, shut the front door. She said, that freaked me out, firstly.

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152:51 - 153:28 Julian Lennon

Then, of course, she comes back into the room with a tray of artifacts, spearheads and a few other things and other tools that they use. But then she did one better. She came, goes and brings in a book that's a very, very thick book with the generations of Mayan and civilizations that have been there before. And so she says, you know, have a look. And I'm flipping through the books, the book.

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153:30 - 154:05 Julian Lennon

And I see the exact headdress and skirt that they were wearing and the exact colors of those headdresses. It was two tone. It was like an earth color and a blue. sky blue kind of that color and that's in a particular arrangement on their headdresses and on their on the skirts and And I said, that's them. And they said, oh, yeah, that was a particular era.

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154:06 - 154:33 Julian Lennon

And that's where the property was built on. And I just went, well, OK. All right. To me, I'm sorry. That just says between that and the white feather. Yeah. And there's one or two other incidences. I just went, yeah, there's so much more shit that we don't know that lives and breathes and exists around.

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154:33 - 154:56 Julian Lennon

And there was something written the other day also, whether it's today or yesterday, saying that, you know, our ears and our eyes can only see so much. Right. You know, humans. Right. That there exists so much more that we don't have a clue about. Right. So I'm just going, okay, there's, If only.

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154:56 - 155:01 Joe Rogan

Well, you have to go back to the idea that eyes didn't exist at one point in time. They were single-celled organisms.

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155:02 - 155:02 Jamie

Yeah.

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155:02 - 155:25 Joe Rogan

Right? And so they became multi-celled organisms, and then they developed simultaneous eyesight in the ocean and on land. And then this idea that your eyes allow you to see, so therefore you're seeing everything, is kind of silly. Because before the eyes existed, there was no perception of... Not using light. There was no way you could see things.

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155:26 - 155:53 Joe Rogan

So why would we assume that this is all that the senses could potentially interact with? That maybe we just don't have them. And maybe – this is what I've said a lot about like psychic communication and telekinesis and all these different things. I think there are emerging – Emerging properties of human consciousness that haven't achieved a full-blown integration yet. Yeah.

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155:53 - 156:11 Joe Rogan

And my real suspicion is that... The biological evolution is not going to make it there in time and that the technological evolution is going to intervene and push us just like that UFO disappeared in space, just took off.

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156:11 - 156:34 Joe Rogan

I have a feeling that the next leap of change that's going to happen with human beings is going to be technologically driven and monumental in a way that you won't be able to even imagine life without it. It's scary, but it's also like it's scary to not be a monkey anymore and to be in a taxi cab. You know, that happened.

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156:34 - 156:40 Joe Rogan

You know, it's scary to not, you know, have to walk everywhere and then all of a sudden you're flying in a plane. All that is kind of crazy.

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156:40 - 156:43 Julian Lennon

I would love to be a, you know, a fly on the wall.

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156:44 - 157:04 Joe Rogan

Oh, my God. For me, flying the wall would be like ancient Egypt. I would love to see what was going on when they were making the pyramids. That's my number one place in history. The next would be what was it like when Genghis Khan was running through Asia? What was that like? Those are two.

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157:04 - 157:36 Julian Lennon

Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of unanswered things out there, but I make the odd documentary, so I'm a documentary watcher whenever I can, really. It's either Anthony Bourdain or a documentary that puts me to sleep most evenings after watching them, not during. Right. But yeah, no, so I thirst for information half the time.

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157:36 - 157:43 Julian Lennon

Whether I retain it or not is another thing, but I certainly am driven to absorb what I can.

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157:43 - 158:13 Joe Rogan

As am I. I think that I try, especially as I get older, to be more open-minded and less dismissive of all this bizarre stuff like ghosts. What's your take on that? I think certain memories are so potent and the energy that's created by these moments is so potent that sometimes it lingers and sometimes it's available and sometimes it's not. And it depends on the state of the people.

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158:14 - 158:33 Joe Rogan

The state of consciousness that they've acquired, the level of anxiety they're currently experiencing, the level of stress, where they are in the world, the solar cycles, the fucking. I think all these factors come into play and occasionally people see whispers of the past or maybe it's not even that it's the past.

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158:34 - 158:59 Joe Rogan

Maybe it's those things are happening, they're just not happening in this level of the multiverse. And that all things that have ever happened are happening simultaneously all at once in this very bizarre structure that the universe is actually made out of. But we're only capable of seeing 3D space, what's currently available, what's in front of me right now, what am I going to eat for dinner.

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159:00 - 159:23 Joe Rogan

We have a very limited view of this thing that is impossible to grasp. Just like those numbers of septillion, whatever. It's impossible. You can't grasp it. I have a feeling that's everything. I think everything, like that kung fu movie, Everything All at Once. I think there's probably a lot to that. There's probably a lot to that this isn't a binary experience.

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159:23 - 159:31 Joe Rogan

This probably is a quantum experience. I just hope we get to understand some of it. It's kind of fun to not and kind of fun to speculate.

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159:31 - 159:31 Julian Lennon

One day.

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159:32 - 159:37 Joe Rogan

Yeah. But the question is, once you do know, would that be better? Would it be better? Or is there something?

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159:37 - 159:40 Julian Lennon

I mean, do you have to know everything? Yeah. Just give us a hint.

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159:41 - 159:43 Joe Rogan

You might. The problem is you might know everything.

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159:44 - 159:49 Julian Lennon

You know, you know, that's what they say. That's what many say. Yeah. That it's you're just remembering things.

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159:51 - 159:59 Joe Rogan

Well, that's true too, right? That information is essentially you're pulling it out of the air. You're like ideas. You're pulling ideas out of the air.

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159:59 - 160:02 Julian Lennon

Correct. It's all in the ether. It's who gets there first. Yeah.

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160:03 - 160:13 Joe Rogan

Do you feel like that way with your music sometimes? Like that ideas just sort of come to you from the muse? Yeah, I think everybody does, right? No question about it. Yeah. Even with photography?

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160:13 - 160:14 Julian Lennon

I think so, too.

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160:14 - 160:18 Joe Rogan

The idea that there's something that tells you to capture this thing that's going to resonate with people?

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160:18 - 160:35 Julian Lennon

No question about it. I mean, one of my favorite pictures in the book is one called Hope, and it's of this little girl in Ethiopia. I was actually there to take a photograph of this person who was cutting the ribbon to open...

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160:36 - 160:52 Julian Lennon

a new freshwater well and I just heard this noise behind me and we were under a plastic cover it was sweltering out there and again because I'm shy and I don't set things up I

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160:53 - 161:17 Julian Lennon

maybe it's like a guerrilla street shot you know and I just I just had this feeling that I needed to turn around and and I did turn around and I just saw this young girl just kind of looking at me like anything I can say is that

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161:19 - 161:41 Julian Lennon

again that that everything's going to be all right that for this little girl there to kind of go it's okay we're going to be okay you know that's that's the impression i got from her it was just this look it's kind of like that nat geo moment you know yeah and i literally span around uh

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161:42 - 162:00 Julian Lennon

snapped the shot and turned around and never looked back again and when i did she'd gone she was with a group of friends and i didn't actually know if i'd got the shot because because again my eyesight's not the best and and i certainly couldn't see it properly on the back of my camera in the middle of a bloody desert

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162:02 - 162:33 Julian Lennon

So it was only when I got back to the hotel and put it into the computer that I went, oh. But that face to me was just like this, we're going to be okay. Yeah. And I don't know, those kind of moments... Give me some kind of, as I called it, hope that we'll do okay at the end of the day.

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162:35 - 162:52 Julian Lennon

But that's a very human element and a very warm embrace, which I choose to kind of take on board as opposed to think that it's anything other than that really.

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162:53 - 163:01 Joe Rogan

I share that thought. I think we're going to be okay. But I think that there has to be the possibility that we're not going to be okay for us to appreciate that we're going to be okay.

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163:01 - 163:07 Julian Lennon

Correct. Yeah. Correct. It's the yin and yang. It's the balance thing again that…

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163:08 - 163:11 Joe Rogan

Cars of the world to recognize the beauty. Correct. Yeah.

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163:12 - 163:41 Julian Lennon

And I think quite a few people are recognizing that, too. I mean, there's obviously some horrible stuff going on right now. But at the other end of it, there's also recognition that we should take care of each other and we should look after this place that we call home. Yes. And I don't mean in that soppy hippie way either. It's like genuine concern and love and respect for where we are.

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163:42 - 164:13 Julian Lennon

And we are so lucky. I mean, we're so, so lucky. I think it was actually... Professor Brian Cox that just goes, this is insane that we're here now having this experience. If you can, take that on board. Try to appreciate that and feel that wonder of... The fact that we exist in this time, you know, if we do.

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164:13 - 164:22 Joe Rogan

Well, I think we do. Yeah. I think, well, at least in our experience, we do. You know, whatever this is. You know, there's people that believe this is a simulation.

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164:23 - 164:24 Julian Lennon

Yes, I know that one too.

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164:24 - 164:44 Joe Rogan

Which is also, yeah, boy, that's a... When it's explained to you by brilliant people, it becomes hard to ignore the possibility that maybe they're correct. Like Elon is... He said that the odds of us not being in a simulation are in the billions. Ouch. That hurts.

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164:44 - 165:00 Joe Rogan

But wouldn't you think that, though, if you're simultaneously running Tesla and a rocket company and fucking – I mean he's just – he seems like he's in a simulation. And you're also the richest man in the world. and you're also the number one Diablo player in the world. He's in a simulation.

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165:00 - 165:09 Julian Lennon

Yeah. Well, he's certainly thinking. You want to talk about a multiverse going on at the same time. He's already there. That's for sure. Yeah.

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165:09 - 165:16 Joe Rogan

And if I was him, I would think that this is a simulation too. It's just because he's got a really good level of the simulation.

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165:16 - 165:16 Julian Lennon

Yeah.

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165:16 - 165:17 Joe Rogan

That level's fun.

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165:17 - 165:18 Julian Lennon

Yeah, yeah. For sure.

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165:18 - 165:42 Joe Rogan

Yeah. But it's also – it's like what do you do with that information? Like if you know – like if you've decided this is a simulation, what are you experiencing? Are these experiences real or is it – it's still real. So – Real feelings and real moments still do exist. So does it cheapen it?

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165:42 - 165:45 Julian Lennon

But does that change your purpose also?

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165:46 - 165:50 Joe Rogan

Does it change how you feel? Does it change the people you love? Does it change, you know?

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165:51 - 166:18 Julian Lennon

But, I mean, you certainly look at him and go, you want to talk about being a go-getter, making things happen. Yeah. He believes it's possible. So he does it. Yeah. And, you know. I think that's the same with a lot of people, obviously not to that extreme. But I think we do make our own fortune in life.

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166:18 - 166:20 Joe Rogan

Yeah, in some weird way.

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166:21 - 166:27 Julian Lennon

I think we are responsible partly for our destiny, for our paths in life.

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166:35 - 166:35 Joe Rogan

Fuck.

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166:36 - 166:45 Joe Rogan

It is a tricky one. Yeah. There's something there that is free will. I believe in determinism as well.

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166:45 - 166:46 Julian Lennon

You have choices.

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166:47 - 166:54 Joe Rogan

Yeah. You do have choices, but how much of your choices are shaped by your past, your biology, life experiences? Yeah.

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166:54 - 167:10 Joe Rogan

genetics, you know, how much of it is, you know, there's that argument like Sapolsky makes the argument that that's going to be the one of the things that we look back on in the future as being one of the most preposterous concepts that people attach themselves to is the concept of free will.

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167:11 - 167:11 Julian Lennon

Right.

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167:11 - 167:33 Joe Rogan

And Sapolsky is like he's pretty much a pure determinism guy. And I don't know if that's really true. I feel like it's both. I feel like there's, there are decisions that you can make and you make these decisions and change your life. You can change the life of other people and you know that you can do it and you're doing it through will.

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167:33 - 167:45 Joe Rogan

There's something about focusing your energy and your, your desires and your, your life goal, your path to something.

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167:46 - 167:50 Julian Lennon

That's a real thing. Yeah. And things happening at a particular time and, uh,

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167:52 - 168:20 Joe Rogan

I think it's very foolish to pretend that you know, whether it's determinism or whether it's free will. I think it's foolish. I think also there's so many factors to take into consideration to dismiss any of them. Like to dismiss the concept of the simulation I think is silly. But to dismiss the concept of the multiverse, also equally silly. To dismiss this idea that you have no free will.

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168:20 - 168:43 Joe Rogan

It's like, I'm not sure. Because there's something you know guides you in a particular direction that you don't necessarily always go with. So what is that? Is that pure determinism? If like sometimes you make mistakes and you recognize you made those mistakes and you recalibrate and then you get to that fork in the road again. You go, I fucked this up before. This time I'm not going to.

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168:43 - 168:59 Joe Rogan

This time I'm going to move forward. Is that free will? Because it certainly seems like it to me. And that's not discounting the impact of determinism, which is all the events of your life and your biology. It has to be shared equally. It's a lot of different stuff going on simultaneously.

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168:59 - 169:05 Julian Lennon

Yeah. I don't think you can say it's one or the other. No, I don't think so either. I really don't. But people love to do that, though.

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169:05 - 169:07 Joe Rogan

They want to put a stamp on something.

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169:07 - 169:09 Julian Lennon

Yeah, well, pigeonholing.

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169:09 - 169:16 Joe Rogan

Yeah, they just love to, like, I want to put this in a narrow window of understanding and dismiss all the other things that are contrary.

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169:18 - 169:31 Julian Lennon

Open-mindedness is something that is a necessity in this strange, weird world that we live in. It's fun though, right? Yeah. Oh, no. Absolutely. Absolutely. I certainly have enjoyed the process.

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169:31 - 170:05 Julian Lennon

But it's funny what you're saying, how you're saying things because it makes – as you're discussing this, I'm thinking about certain choices that I've made because of certain things that have happened and certain things in the past and where I believe I should be in the future. I mean that's quite – I find quite an interesting one that this whole also concept of my mind's going blank.

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170:05 - 170:37 Julian Lennon

Not enough coffee today. What do you call it when you're putting it out there? I'm really brain dead right now. When you're visualizing the future and the possibilities. Manifesting your own. Manifesting your dreams. But, you know, is there some truth to that? Because that does seem to happen to a degree.

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170:37 - 170:39 Joe Rogan

It just doesn't always happen.

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170:40 - 170:42 Julian Lennon

No. I think it's a factor. Not at all.

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170:42 - 170:43 Joe Rogan

I think it's a factor.

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170:43 - 171:03 Julian Lennon

Yeah. That's a possibility. I agree with you on that. But there's something definitely to that. I definitely think. I certainly feel that I can relate certain things happening to me because of manifesting or the will to move things in a particular direction.

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171:03 - 171:10 Joe Rogan

You put your energy and your focus into something and the thing becomes real and you go, oh my God, I manifested this thing.

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171:11 - 171:12 Julian Lennon

How did that happen without that?

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171:13 - 171:20 Joe Rogan

But it's also work. For sure. People get this bizarre thing that if you just manifest something that it'll just occur.

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171:21 - 171:28 Julian Lennon

No, that's never the case. No, there's a ton of energy behind it. It's a weird process. That comes into that, for sure.

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171:29 - 171:53 Joe Rogan

julian i've really enjoyed talking to you it's a lot of fun thank you likewise back at you and i really enjoy your photography and the book is available life's fragile moments it's an awesome coffee table sized it's yeah it's heavy photography uh let's do this again sometime man thank you my absolute pleasure my pleasure as well thank you very much all right great bye everybody

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