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The Ezra Klein Show

So That's What 'Make America Great Again' Means

Wed, 22 Jan 2025

Description

There’s a quieter transition happening beneath the pageantry of this week’s inaugural events — a transition not of power per se but of the rules around how power in Washington works. And the new rules look very different from the old ones.In this conversation, I’m joined by Aaron Retica, an editor at large for New York Times Opinion (and my column editor), to discuss what President Trump’s inaugural address and first round of executive orders signal about the administration to come. We talk about the end of birthright citizenship and the renegotiation of American belonging, why Trump is so fixated on Greenland and the Panama Canal, his retro-futurist vision of American power, the unsettling arrival of a new tech oligarchy and more.Mentioned:“What’s Wrong with Donald Trump?” by Ezra Klein“Democrats Are Losing the War for Attention. Badly.” by The Ezra Klein Show, with Chris HayesThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected] can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

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Full Episode

5.495 - 49.103 Ezra Klein

From New York Times Opinion, this is The Ezra Klein Show. I feel like I've been watching two different presidential transitions take place. There's been the official one with all of its pomp and its pageantry, the one we call the peaceful transition of power. I watched Vice President Kamala Harris preside over the certification of the election she lost.

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50.342 - 73.326 Ezra Klein

I watched President Joe Biden welcome his successor, President Donald Trump, back to the White House. I watched every living former president assemble under the Capitol rotunda to honor Trump's second inauguration. What a difference to four years ago when a mob stormed the Capitol, when Trump sought to upend the election results and upon failing, did not attend Joe Biden's inauguration.

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73.987 - 93.477 Ezra Klein

This transition, the official transition of presidential power, this transition has been orderly. But there has been this other transition happening too. A transition not of power, but of political system. A transition in the rules and expectations of power. I understood Joe Biden's pardon of Hunter Biden.

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94.157 - 118.531 Ezra Klein

Hunter had become a particular fixation of the Trumpist right, and the idea that they would unleash their revenge on him individually seemed all too real. Joe Biden has already lost two children. Others may disagree. I had trouble begrudging him his refusal to potentially lose a third. But then came so many more pardons, culminating in pardons of Anthony Fauci and much of Biden's family.

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119.332 - 143.197 Ezra Klein

And it wasn't just pardons. There was the refusal to enforce a ban on TikTok that Biden himself had signed into law, Biden's bill. And alongside that came this bizarre decision to announce that the Equal Rights Amendment was now ratified as Virginia had accepted it in 2020, becoming the 38th state to do so. But that wasn't true. It wasn't ratified.

143.277 - 167.937 Ezra Klein

Congress had set a deadline of 1982 for ratification. The opinion of Joe Biden's own Justice Department is that Virginia's late act is meaningless. The ERA is not ratified, whatever Biden said. And the Biden administration, they know it. Biden did not direct the archivist of the United States to add the Equal Rights Amendment to the Constitution. And Xi quite reasonably did not.

168.517 - 192.311 Ezra Klein

He said the Constitution was changed. It lies now unchanged. All of this was a very strange substitution of press stunt for policy process. All of it felt like an effort to make the president in his final days seem more powerful and more consequential than he really was. And why did it wait until the final days? If it was so worth doing, then do it earlier and defend it.

193.669 - 215.591 Ezra Klein

Changing the Constitution under a controversial theory, it's not what you do on your way out the door. The Biden of 2020 would have done none of this. In key cases like the family pardons, he said he would not do this. And then he did it. This feels in its own way like Biden's submission to the new regime. The powers of the presidency are whatever the president can get away with.

216.584 - 239.617 Ezra Klein

And I'm not naive, I cover this professionally. I know that presidents have been testing the limits of their authority since the dawn of the Republic. But for a president whose core message was about the preservation of America's constitutional democracy, and not just that, but the informal norms and values that scaffold that system, for he to leave in this way was a profound message on its own.

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