The Grammy-winning singer on overcoming child stardom, accepting her parents and being in control. Also, we have exciting news: You can check us out on YouTube. To watch our videos, go to: youtube.com/@theinterviewpodcast Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Chapter 1: Who is Miley Cyrus and what are her biggest hits?
Thank you. It's a fun, different way to get to know the people we have on our show, including this week's guest, Miley Cyrus. To watch, go to youtube.com slash at the interview podcast. And don't forget to subscribe while you're there. Okay, here's the show. From the New York Times, this is The Interview. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro. Miley Cyrus has spent almost her entire life in the limelight.
When she was only 13, she debuted as Disney Channel's Hannah Montana. She played a regular girl by day who had a secret life as a pop star by night. The role made her into a household name with a string of hits like this one, Party in the USA. After the show ended, she became a fully-fledged pop star in her own right. She gave us the breakup anthem of the decade with her song, Wrecking Ball.
And now in her 30s, her mega hit Flowers spent weeks on top of the charts and won her her first Grammy. She just released her ninth album, Something Beautiful. It's ambitious and personal, and it's also her first visual album. The lead single is End of the World. Miley and I spoke in person in New York when she was in town for the Met Gala.
And we went to some unexpected places, talking about her close relationships with her mom Tish and her godmother Dolly Parton, a revelation she had while undergoing trauma therapy, and how she's learned to protect herself in a world that is still fascinated by everything she does. Here's my conversation with Miley Cyrus.
How was the Met Gala? Met Gala? Met Galas. You know, where you're kind of... I'm sitting with strangers. I sat this year with Cartier because I was wearing a Laia who does not have a table. Okay. So I was kind of the misfit, which I'm always okay with. I'm used to that. It was fine. But it's just an interesting situation because everything that makes you comfortable is taken from you.
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Chapter 2: What was Miley's experience at the Met Gala?
You know, it's a... I think they should add, you get a plus one for your stylist. Because you're like, you know. That's why people, I guess, go with their designer sometimes. Right, because they, totally. And my designer is dead. So who are you sitting with then? I sat with a bunch of people that I didn't really know. But I always make friends there. I really like John Batiste.
I thought he was like so cool. I love him. And he was my most memorable guest because I just sat and talked to him forever. He's super awesome. He like sat down. The first thing he asked me was, what's your favorite key to sing in? No one's ever asked me before. And he goes, I'm guessing it's a G or a C, but I think F would probably be your ceiling. And he sat down and said that right away.
I'm like, you're my friend.
I like you. And what is your favorite key? He was right, G and C. Uh-huh. All right. We're going to talk a little bit about the past. We're going to talk a little bit about, obviously, your new music. So we're just going to wander. If at any point you feel whatever, you want to take a break, by all means. I appreciate it.
I feel good.
Okay, good.
I like being in this room. This room's good.
Oh, we like it.
I've got a pretty good compass of like where I feel at home now. And so just being able to sit in a space where you feel really safe, always you get more clarity and more honesty. And that's what I'm always looking for. You know, I've interviewed you before. You look really familiar to me.
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Chapter 3: How does Miley Cyrus feel about being in control?
And I think I've hidden behind it didn't matter because then every time it happens annually, it would have hurt. And so when I finally did get recognized again, it was just like an extra layer of that bandage over something that I didn't even know really hurt me. And, you know, now I have enough. understanding to say, like, I don't need to win, but like anyone, I want to.
Why do you think it took so long?
I think when you do things your own way, you're always respectfully a little bit ahead because I like to open the door. I, you know, it's nice when someone opens it for you, but I kind of like to be in front and open the door myself. And I think Women that are loud and, you know, open with their sexuality. And I don't want to hide behind that.
But I do think something of my—I think there's a couple things. Let's go back. I think from starting from being on Disney, you already have something that you kind of have to overcome, which I've never understood needing to overcome before. Disney or being Hannah Montana, because Hannah Montana was like a singer and I was never nominated for Best New Artist, which was totally cool with me.
But at one point, I just think I kind of was the best new artist. And if it wasn't the best, it was the most impactful to a certain generation that there should be some sort of recognition for that. And also the amount of work that I was putting in was so heavy. So I think with the Grammys, it was like overcoming Disney, overcoming the character. And then when I left the character behind, like...
All the way behind. Like it was like, okay, cut. I am officially like so me that I think I just went so many steps ahead really fast. And I don't think that everyone could completely keep up. But then also female rebellion has always been something that takes a little while for critics and for, you know, sophisticated shows to totally take that woman seriously. Yeah.
There's a lot there to unpack. That was breathless, but sorry. No, no. There's a lot there. I mean, I'm really interested with the idea of having to overcome your Hannah Montana days in the sense of being considered a real artist, right? Yeah, that's what I think it kind of was. Yeah, that somehow the machinery of Disney and how it's, you know, been the place that a lot of people have come from.
But there were other Disney artists that got dominated in that category. But they, I believe, I don't know who else before that, but the Jonas Brothers. But it was boys. And so they didn't have like a character to shed. But because I wore a wig and I was a pop star, you know, I remember being brokenhearted because the Jonas Brothers, I believe, got asked to perform with Stevie Wonder. Yeah.
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Chapter 4: What does Miley mean by 'mothering' herself?
And, you know, I never got an opportunity like that as a young girl when my show had been on air for years before. And I had had everyone on that show with Dolly Parton. We've had Vicki Lawrence, who, like, taught me so many amazing things. It actually was the greatest blessing, though, that those awards never happened because I was recognized all the time by millions of people that were really –
you know, their identities were being formed by me. There's a part of them that's like a little part of me. And so it's like, I love that people became my... You know, my reward is that people loved me and that felt good. But, you know, of course, every year, you know, never having my name called and I was just working so hard.
And I did feel like there was, you know, not necessarily saying I am owed it or I deserve it, but it just felt like, what am I not doing? Where's the math? Because I feel like if we're doing the equation, I feel like it equals some sort of, you know, just validation, physical validation.
All right. I want to talk about the new album, Something Beautiful. I've always had a bit of trouble pinning your music down because you are always experimenting in this way that's innovative. You go through different genres, different types of music. And so I'd love to know what you're trying to do with this album.
I have a hard time pinning myself down, too. And I wouldn't say that all my albums are even necessarily reflective of what I would say or who I would say I am as an artist or musician. Sometimes my albums, you know, are experimentation for me and they end up being shared. And so with Something Beautiful, I wanted to... you know, reclaim and reimagine the word beautiful and what it means to me.
Some of the most beautiful moments in my life, you know, I am also very emotional. I cry about everything, so I'm fine. You know, but when I think about, you know, being born, the first person that I saw was my grandma, and it gets me emotional. And, you know, my mom was adopted, and so being able to be put into her arms and immediately think, it just... It's deep. It's like way before me.
You know, there's so much there. And when I think about these moments in my life being handed to her when I was first born, and then, you know, when she passed away, both of those moments were so beautiful to me. And one of them is really joyous and one of them is really painful, but they're equally beautiful. That's why I think I've made this album is just to reclaim what beauty is.
Because I think... birth is beautiful. I think death is beautiful. I think we've been taught to that like rage or hatefulness, you know, there's not a beauty in it, but it lets you know you're alive, you're feeling something. I'm a big believer in rage. You have to get it out. I had physical pain in my body for years and I realized it's because I didn't let myself be angry.
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Chapter 5: Why was winning a Grammy so important for Miley?
A lot of women I think that I've known that go, man, I have hip pain or have joint pain. And Then I watch them in their lives, you know, yes, please. Thank you. You know, my mom does this. She could order a baked potato. A cake could come and she'll say, thank you so much. You know, she's always polite and she had all these headaches all the time.
And I told her, I was like, mom, you got to get real mad. So I think rage and anger is something that we should let ourselves feel. But it's just, you know, keep it to yourself. You know, you use it. That's what I want to do with the things that make me, you know, angry.
When was the last time you felt rage?
The last time I felt rage. I think, you know what? Again, I get way too emotional. But true rage is, I think, probably to do with my mom, you know, or my sister. It's like the way that... It's not rage. Um... You know what? I can actually know when. It's Real Rage was after I made an album, Plastic Hearts, and I felt myself getting caught into...
An idea of me, like this tornado of the idea of me. And I fell for it and I got inside of it. And when I actually landed and came back down, I realized the vortex I had been in. And when I looked around and thought of the people that I had placed in my life to keep me safe and they didn't, I had rage. Because I actually, I don't need anyone to commit to taking care of me. But don't say you will.
I understand that this is sensitive, so forgive me, and you can just move on. But obviously, this was the period after your divorce. And so... Weirdly, I'm not talking about him. Okay, that's what I'm just... Because sometimes I think people talk about things, but they're not talking about it, and I'm just trying to... No, mine is more...
Just like actually in my industry, you know, I have a full new creative team around me who I have in the studio, who I create music with now. And I think this is why my last two albums are the ones where you can hear me the cleanest and the clearest.
What is a Miley Cyrus song?
If you had to say, you know... There's like two. There's two. I heard that there's only two or three genres. There's... normal people that make normal music for, like, normal people. Then there's weird people, and we all know that kind of music, that make weird music for weird people.
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Chapter 6: What is the concept behind Miley's new album 'Something Beautiful'?
I want to take you, we've touched on this, but your sort of upbringing, obviously your dad was Billy Ray Cyrus. And is. And is. He's living. He's living. Yeah, he's living. Yeah. Yeah. Indeed. I was curious about little Miley. When did you realize that you had this talent that you could really sing, not just sing, sing, but sing?
Well, even more than that, people just used to pay attention to me in weird ways that I noticed that like when I would go somewhere, like not everyone was being kind of like looked at or treated the way that I was. I used to have this thing when my mom, my mom was like a total shopaholic when I was a kid.
She would take me to the mall, which is the worst place for a kid with like a bad attention span. And my favorite thing to do would to be going into the front of the stores and pretend I was a mannequin. And I would hold it for so long, I would not budge. And I would get crowds of people around staring at me because I was just like milking it so hard.
And I think they were like, how long is this little girl going to like keep up the bit? And I would just do the bit. And so I, you know, I definitely noticed that like people kind of, you know, there was something magnetic between me and other people. And I don't say they were magnetized to me. I was actually like magnet. We were to each other.
But then with the singing, you know, I would just always sing on stage. And I didn't know if people were just cheering because I was, you know, like little and it was cute for me to come out and do like Elvis songs or whatever. But I guess I never really thought Like, oh, I can really sing. I just know that people were reacting. And so that's what I was going off of.
I wasn't thinking about is this good or bad. I was just watching people light up and going like, yeah, that's what I want. I want you to react to me.
I heard you mentioned briefly in a recent interview with David Letterman that you were bullied in middle school before you left for Hollywood in Hannah Montana. Yeah. And, you know, I'm the mother of a 12-year-old girl.
Ouch, I feel for her.
Yeah. Middle school is terrible. And I'm wondering what you took away from that period of your life where all of a sudden you go off to have like this amazing success, but, you know, you had this really painful time. Like, why was that happening? Yeah.
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Chapter 7: How did Miley navigate her early fame and bullying?
Yeah. And she chose me, really. Right. You know, we chose each other. Like, she walked in and she just, like, she had on that baby pink robe and, like, smelled like baby powder. Like, you know, her whole thing, her whole face, the hair, the wig, the whole thing. And everyone was, like, kind of in awe of her. And I remember thinking that I didn't feel that.
I actually felt – because when you see her at first, it's just so incredible that, like, you're kind of taken aback by just how much power she holds. But I just felt instead of seeing myself, like, retract in, like, awe of her, I just felt myself going forward and just feeling really safe.
And it also felt like I can do this for the rest of my life and I can be happy because she just is so happy and has so much joy. And you see the, you know, you see the like celebrities that don't have joy in their life. And she's someone else that, you know, obviously had a super private relationship and a private life.
And it was just something I always admired more than the way that she looks or the way that she performs. I admired her, you know, her personality. Staying true to herself and being at home with her husband, Carl, who she just lost and having a real life and having a lot of love in it.
I do wonder at this point what it's like for you to have grown up so famous and to also be part of this famous family. Because in the past few years, you know, your mom remarried and that caused some rifts in your family. Your dad has a new relationship with Elizabeth Hurley. Yeah. And all this stuff gets picked apart sort of endlessly in the media, on social media.
And it must be complicated to have all that stuff play out publicly.
Yeah, the thing I like about the new way that the world works is that everything is so fast it's forgotten really quickly. Like if you remember like in the 90s, like when something happened in a tabloid, remember how it would just happen for like a year? Yeah. And now it's just gone.
And so that's the one thing that I like about it is that how fast social media moves now, it just eats everything, you know, so something may seem really important for a couple hours, but then there's a meme that goes viral, you know, somebody like scats at Walmart or something, and that becomes the next thing.
So, you know, it's difficult for us because anything that's happening in the public, you know, it's just it can be embarrassing, you know, for the person that's experiencing it. You know, not so much for me. I try to just be more compassionate to my parents because I hate that for them.
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Chapter 8: What lessons did Miley learn from her experiences as a child star?
makes me you know sad about it is for is for them you know because like I said I feel pretty strong and I've taken so much on the chin I feel like I've I've stayed strong without ever getting too calloused or too you know I'm pretty open for and vulnerable for how much I've been through um but yeah just you know no one likes to wake up to that so it sucks but it's worth it yeah
Are you still estranged from your dad? Are you? again, because, you know, my mom's really loved my dad for her whole life. And I think being married to someone in the music industry and not being a part of it is obviously really hard. And so I think, you know, I took on some of my mom's hurt as my own because it hurt her kind of more than it hurt me as an adult. And so I owned a lot of her
pain as mine but now that my mom is like so in love with my stepdad Dom who I'm also just I completely adore and now that my dad I see him finding happiness outside of that too I can I can love them both as individuals instead of as a as a kind of you know a parental pairing I'm being an adult about it you know at first it's hard because the little kid in you reacts before the adult and you can go
Yes, that's your dad, but that's just another person that deserves to, you know, be in his bliss and to be happy. So my adult self has caught up. My child self has caught up.
You've talked some about therapy, and it's just something I just wanted to ask you because you've discussed doing EMDR, and I did EMDR.
Love it. Saved my life.
And I'm just wondering about that, what it did for you, how it helped you, because it's a very specific type of therapy that really is to do with trauma. Yeah.
You're going to get me. That's sweet. The tag on my tee said, take a moment just for you. So I got to answer this question, but it's for me. The first thing that happened was I was guided to seat myself on a train. Did you do it this way where you watch it pass you by? And it's so weird because it's like watching a movie in your mind, but it's different than dreaming.
You know, you're kind of more in yourself, but still in another place of consciousness that's really hard to describe unless you've been in that hypnotic state. And like I see myself sit down on the train and I and he says, just watch your movie, like watch your life like a movie and watch it pass you by through the windows. And I see all these times just like, you know, like.
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