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The Bulwark Podcast

S2 Ep1024: Anne Applebaum: Everything Is a Game to Trump

18 Apr 2025

Description

Sen. Van Hollen showed that Congress actually does have agency, and a federal judge finally scorched the administration in crystal-clear language about how it's violating the essence of our constitutional republic. But the White House is just treating the whole Abrego Garcia affair like it's a joke. Meanwhile, Trump is elevating his own businesses over the nation's, and is quickly adopting the kleptocratic models of Russia and China—while overlooking the fact that the Chinese have maintained a functional and competent government. Plus, children all over the world are going to die because Elon wants our money to go to his companies, and Marco signaled that the big talker who promised to end the Russia-Ukraine war in 24 hours is ready to give up and walk away. Anne Applebaum joins Tim Miller for the weekend pod. show notes Anne's recent piece, "Kleptocracy, Inc." The Atlantic on Trump ending lifesaving humanitarian aid JVL's Triad on the mindset of ICE agents Tim's playlist

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Transcription

Full Episode

0.898 - 19.689

Hey, das ist für dich. Egal wie du frühstückst. Ob mit deinem Lieblingsmüsli, einer fruchtigen Bowl oder cremig schaumigem Kaffee. Mit Alpro wird jedes Frühstück einfach für einen gesunden Start in den Tag. Mit wertvollen Vitaminen und Mineralien. Ohne Zuckerzusatz. Und immer phantastisch lecker. Alpro.

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28.353 - 43.499 Tim Miller

Hallo und willkommen zu The Bulwark Podcast. Ich bin euer Host Tim Miller. Ich bin begeistert, hier mit Staff Writer at The Atlantic zu sein. Ihre Bücher sind Autocracy Inc., Twilight of Democracy und die Pulitzer Prize gewinnende Gulag A History. Es ist Anne Applebaum. Lass uns das machen, Anne.

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43.519 - 47.36 Tim Miller

Wie geht es dir?

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47.38 - 62.127 Tim Miller

Ich bin gut. Ich bin gut. Wie bist du? Gut genug, ja. Gut genug. Ich bin gut genug, hier in meiner persönlichen Leben. Geben all die Gulag News out there. I was talking to Katie and I was like, we better get Ian Applebaum on. Who better to have than the author of Gulag History?

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62.167 - 89.363 Tim Miller

We had a minor, maybe positive green shoot late Thursday night when Chris Van Hollen got to meet with Kilmar Abrego-Garcia, possibly the first known person to actually get out of So I worried a little bit about why they let out Abrego Garcia to meet Chris Van Hollen. I mean, clearly, well, one of the reasons was to show he wasn't dead, which people were beginning to wonder about.

101.946 - 120.633 Anne Applebaum

But it also, the way it was staged, you know, it was meant to say, look, this guy is absolutely fine, there's nothing wrong with him, he was wearing clean clothes, he was in some kind of restaurant-looking setting. It was clearly designed to show that nothing all that bad is happening. So I worried about that aspect of it. Obviously the fact, you know, a U.S.

120.673 - 144.27 Anne Applebaum

Senator is willing to go there and put his reputation on the line and, you know, make an effort to save an innocent person from... A horrific and pointless fate is fantastic. And it's you know, I think it's gestures like these that will remind people that Congress has agency and senators can do things. I'm pleased that he did it. I mean, of course, what matters now is what happens next.

144.31 - 192.133 Anne Applebaum

Does the administration listen to the Supreme Court, which has demanded that. Oh, das ist interessant. Ich wusste das nicht. It means Main Camp Administration. And SISOT is also an acronym. And, you know, these are names given to institutions that have unclear powers and exist outside of the rule of law.

192.194 - 219.034 Anne Applebaum

And SISOT, from our point of view, is doubly outside the rule of law because it's outside of our country. So it's outside of our legal jurisdiction. It exists according to the unclear laws of some other country. Es ist vielleicht einfacher, mit Abrego Garcia zu sympathisieren, weil er unnötig ist und der Vater eines autistischen Kindes ist und er hat nie das Gesetz gebrochen.

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