The Athletic NBA Daily
The last test for Cleveland | Edwards, Timberwolves spoil Zion’s return
Wed, 08 Jan 2025
The Minnesota Timberwolves defeated the New Orleans Pelicans thanks to Anthony Edwards’s 32 point performance. Dave DuFour and Zena Keita discuss the Edwards’ game, Zion’s return from injury, and the Suns’ terrible loss to Charlotte. Then, the Athletic’s Joe Vardon joins the show to discuss the huge showdown between the Cavaliers and Thunder, Cleveland’s path to success, and why this is the last regular season test for the Cavs.Host: Dave DuFourWith: Zena Keita & Joe VardonExecutive Producer: Andrew SchlechtAudio Producer: Grayson MoodySubmit your questions to The Athletic NBA Daily mailbag: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5939460/2024/11/25/nba-podcast-mailbag-athletic-daily/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Chapter 1: What happened in Zion Williamson's return?
Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for January 8th, 2025. Coming up, Zion Williamson is back. But Anthony Edwards had a little bit too much juice. We got Joe Varden to talk about the Cavs and Thunder big game. And the Phoenix Suns and LA Lakers had some bad, bad losses last night. Good morning, everybody. Good morning, Zena.
You know, Zena, I love these shows that we get to start out on a positive note. So often we're talking about guys getting hurt. And we've been talking about Zion Williamson all year long. Just kind of bummed out, actually, that he hasn't been able to play. Finally making his return against the Timberwolves. And listen, the Timberwolves, they spoiled that return.
Anthony Edwards had a big game, and the Wolves get the win. They're a better team than the Pelicans. But, Zena, I just want to start with Zion. How did he look to you, aside from lean – He did look clean. Right?
Yeah, right. I mean, the body fat percentage is down. The beard looks great. All of his fast twitch muscles were on a faster level. It was unbelievable watching him. It was so clean to watch him not only on offense, but particularly on defense. How he was in those passing lanes. Julius Randle got some really tough buckets tonight.
And it's because Zion really made him work for every single bucket that he got. But yeah, he looked strong. He looked long. He looked active. And most importantly, I'm looking at this entire Pelicans team And I don't know if you remember, Dave, we said early in the season when DeJounte Murray was hurt with his hand, we said that Atlanta may have won this trade.
The Dyson Daniels have been balling out in Atlanta. But now that DeJounte Murray is back and you're looking at a team with DeJounte Murray, 6'4 with a 6'10 wingspan. Zion Williamson, 6'6 with a 6'10 wingspan. Eves Missy, who is... 6'11". You got Herb Jones. I mean, the length on this team is unbelievable.
But with DeJounte Murray being long and fast, and then you've got Zion strong and fast, it's chaotic right now out there for the Pelicans just agitating their opponents.
Yeah, I mean, listen, the Pelicans could do hands across America, you know, just by themselves, right? Like, yeah, shout out Jimmy Carter. But they look good. Zion looked good. I mean, he had a windmill dunk in this guy, 360 windmill dunk on a breakaway that he just walked into. So he looks like Zion. His second jump was really nice tonight. He had a putback on his own miss.
I really just, I was so happy to see this guy looking like an NBA player. And this might, Look, it's early. This might be the best I've seen him look just walking around. I was really happy. He had 22.6 rebounds, four assists, three steals, a block. He was plus eight in 28 minutes. So he played like Zion, too. Just had an immediate impact. And you mentioned that team, how long they are.
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Chapter 2: How did Anthony Edwards perform against the Pelicans?
I didn't like the fact that he closed out the fourth quarter, mainly only shooting from the free throw line and get some points. Definitely want him to be consistent all the way throughout.
That's been the main thing about his game is consistency from first quarter to fourth, but overall getting to his spots really nicely in the first portion of the game to get the lead in the comfortable space from the Pelicans to get the win.
Well, speaking of uncomfortable spaces, the Phoenix Suns are probably in a very uncomfortable place right now, right? The Suns got beat by the Charlotte Hornets, which is just sad because this was only the Hornets' eighth win. They win 115-104. Lomelo Ball had 32 points. Welcome back. buddy.
He also, we'll talk about that pass in a minute, but we got to, we start with the negative here because it's the sons and they have expectations. And we just talked about them on the show yesterday. You know, they get that win against the Sixers and it is a back to back. I'm not throwing this one away.
You know, I'm not going to let them get off light and say it's a back to back because Devin Booker finally showed up for the first time in a while. We talked about his injury and how he's had a rough season, 39 points, 10 assists, six rebounds, had a great game. That's a game, Zena, that I just don't think the Suns can afford to lose when they're playing so poorly.
I agree. And especially when you have Devin Booker one point away from 40, and the fact that two of the superstars combined for 65 points, that is not something you want to throw away. It was the supporting cast that was non-existent tonight.
And if you look at the fact that Bradley Beal comes off the bench for the second time since 2016, definitely an adjustment, but he played well in the night before, having dropped 25 points. Next night, 10. But this was the performance that Devin Booker had the night before. He had 10 points. So they basically switched performances. They can't do that. They're superstars.
They're big three for a reason. They got to be consistent, especially when you're big. Mason Plumlee's not providing much. Ryan Dunn didn't provide much in the starting position either. It's just – it's inconsistency from Phoenix. And I know it might have felt, you know, just a little bit hard for Charles Lee, who had spent nine seasons with Mike Brunholzer. Mm-hmm.
And, you know, this is his protege. He wanted to maybe show out in front of his mentor. And, you know, I think Charlotte Hornets definitely did that. I'm sure Budenholzer was proud of his boy, Charles Lee.
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Chapter 3: What went wrong for the Phoenix Suns in their recent loss?
Dorian Finney-Smith is finding his steps, you can tell, within this team. But overall, yes, this was a number five, number six matchup in the Western Conference. This was important. That's why these games, you cannot throw these games away because this matters of playoff position versus play-in position.
And finally, the Hawks pick up a win in a game where Trey Young has 24-20, which is kind of just an old hat for Trey Young. But the end of his game was nuts, Zena. So the Hawks are up 121-118, and Utah Jazz are kind of scrambling. It's less than 10 seconds left. Colin Sexton hits a game-tying three with not much time on the clock. Ball is inbounded to who else? Trey Young.
who hits with the NBA's crediting as a 49 foot buzzer beater game winning three to put the Hawks up. So that was his 22nd, 23rd and 24th points from 49 feet away.
He's insane. And then after he hits the shot with a defender fully in front of his body, he hits the shoulder, like the shoulder rub of like ice tray. Like it's chilly in here. It's frigid in here. I mean, he, it's between him and Steph Curry, between the disrespectful shots to close out games for some cases, close out seasons in Steph's case, and then do the most disrespectful celebrations. Like,
I don't know what's worse, the dice on the Knicks court or this like frigid. I don't know. It's pretty.
The dice on the court is pretty rough. I mean, here's the thing, though. You know, what's funny is that Trey Young leans into being a heel. And, you know, Steph Curry has this, you know, mild mannered sort of personality and sort of like family guy. I wonder what would it take for Trey Young to not be a heel?
I don't know. I do think he, he leans into being the villain, but when you're putting up shots like this to close out games that people are feeling like really excited about and feeling confident about, and you're killing dreams like this. I mean, yeah, you, you, you must, you must get something out of it.
Trey, grow the beard out, shave your head, stick around. We got Joe Varden coming up next to talk about Cleveland and OKC tomorrow night.
Picture this. It's midnight and you're lying in bed. You're scrolling through this new website you found, hitting the add to cart button on that item you've been looking for. After 15 more minutes, you decide you've done enough damage to your wallet. You go to checkout. Oh, no. You remember that your card is in the living room and you don't want to get out of bed to go get it. You're comfy.
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Chapter 4: How did LaMelo Ball impress in the game against the Suns?
And then secondly, the Cavs also have a 15 game winning streak under their belts this season. That's how they open the year. So this is the first time also in NBA history that we've got two teams from one from each conference that have a winning percentage of at least 850 points.
uh this late in the year i mean you know we're we're this is going to be game 36 for both teams the calves are 31 and 4 which is tied for the the fifth best record ever through that many games and right behind them are the oklahoma city thunder we've got two teams that are both legitimately on track to win 70 games um i guess for both of them to do it uh maybe they'll split
These next two because the Thunder hosts Cleveland next week. So, you know, a couple other ones that are really good. This is the second time in league history that we have that we've had multiple teams, two teams, you know, win at least 30 of their of their first 35 games. As Dave and I were talking off air, the last time that that happened was in 71-72 when the Lakers and the Bucks both did it.
And I believe, as Dave mentioned, they wound up in the finals. So is this a finals matchup? You know, history kind of says that it is. We also have...
you know to just to kind of uh stop it here um we've got the number one offense in the league in cleveland which currently they are on track to post the second best offense of all time now that sounds awesome and it is uh but the celtics of last year set the greatest offense ever so this has a lot more to do with the dramatic change in style of how we play our sport um than anything else but still
Uh, second best offense ever, maybe by the time it's all said and done the greatest and the thunder had the number one defense in the league. So, you know, we're really going to see, um, you know, we're, we're going to see like, uh, you know, who blinks here, uh, as far as the two best teams, historic one's great.
Both are really going on both sides of the ball, but, uh, you're talking about bests here.
Now, you talked about the Thunder's defense. I'm actually curious about the Thunder's offense being led by Shea Gildas Alexander, averaging about 31 points and also providing for his teammates, averaging six assists as well. When you think about the way that the backcourt of Cleveland, Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell, they have to carry a lot of load on the offensive side.
Someone's got to carry that load on the defensive side in terms of guarding Shea. Who do you think Cleveland's going to put on SGA?
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Chapter 5: What was the significance of the Cavs vs. Thunder matchup?
I think you start out with Darius, you know, Shay's going to score a ton, but you've got the best offense in the league. And I think, you know, you, you, you use good offense to set up a defense.
Well, let's flip it to that offense. I mean, you talked about Oklahoma City. They are the best defense in the league. They may be the best defense in NBA history. They're certainly one of the most disruptive that we've ever seen. How does Cleveland attack that defense that's so flexible that can switch?
They can flip from a zone to a switch to, I mean, they basically have every single coverage that you want. They can play small. They can play at least one big. But how does Cleveland's offense attack that defense?
Well, I mean, I guess the short answer is I don't know. A lot of coaches will be tuning in for this. Absolutely. Yeah. And I would be about the last person they'd ask for advice when it comes to X's and O's. But what makes the Cavs offense so special? It's not just that they're really good on the ball. It's not just that they are shooting more threes, I think, even than Boston is right now.
It's not just that they have two guys that can roll to the rim. It's that they do all of this, and there's so much happening away from the ball. Unlike pretty much any offense they've ever had, There is a certain element of cutting and moving without the ball. There's the extra pass. Charles Lee, who was an assistant in Boston last year, now he coaches the Hornets.
He was talking about this the other night in comparing, at my request, the 16 Warriors to the Cavs of today. And you're talking about the pressure. When the Warriors were that team, uh eight nine years ago and the calves who ultimately beat them in the finals but but just whether it was that year or those four years the calves would talk about the pressure
That the Warriors put on you, on your defense, like just the pressure of Steph coming over top screens and shooting those threes and then the slip screens and the, you know, clay moving without the ball and just all the things that could happen to you. And... Charles point was they don't have Steph, but they do have so many different facets to what they do.
So, you know, if you are trying to take away the catch and shoot three, the corner three, which is something we talked about off air, um, If you're trying to take that away from Cleveland, then you are definitely leaving yourself vulnerable to, you know, Jared Allen or Evan Mobley at the rim.
If, you know, if you are trying to take away, you know, that second pass that's again around the perimeter, you know, if you go behind on screens, you know, Darius Garland will shoot that pocket three and he will make it. So I think that you're looking at a fabulous chess match that's coming here where you're going to see both sides shine at what they do best.
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Chapter 6: What do the Lakers need to improve moving forward?
You know, there's room around the pruner, but that means then that they can adjust to what you do. Um, he can play the five. And then you can have four shooters around him. You know, they can interchange Jarrett and Evan. They start the game with both of them. But then, you know, they're both each other's backup for most of the rest of the game. You can go small and have Dean Wade at the five.
I mean, he's you know, the thing about Dean, Dean Wade is he gets hurt often and usually at the worst times. Um, he misses swaths of, of playoff games he did last year. And then the year before there was a confidence thing. Um, you know, when he's right and out there, the Cavs win a bunch and that's currently the case. Um, so, you know, he's six, nine, uh, but he can, he can do that.
He, he can be your, your center and a small ball. Um, you know, they've got a number of shooters, you know, uh, We mentioned off air, Isaac Okoro is not going to be out there. Sam Merrill, maybe, you know, he's like a Kyle Korver light. So they can do, you know, they can play however you want them to play.
Yeah, it's a really good basketball team. Who's going to blink first? We got two games in eight days between the two best teams in the league. Can anybody win both of these, Joe?
Yeah. This is the last test.
You sound so confident.
This is the last test for Cleveland. We knew Oklahoma City was going to be good this year. They had the number one seed in the West last year. They came into this season as a highly regarded ball club. The Cavs were just... you know, as far as expectations go, they were just sort of there, you know, like just somewhere. Yeah. I mean, just somewhere in that four to seven range in the East.
And they have obviously played way above that. That's not who they are. They, they are, you know, a truly historically great regular season team. Now we can say that. Um, but yeah, If they can handle these two games, win at least one, then I think that puts all of the questions to bed. That will show that they are physical enough to play against a Boston or a New York in the East.
You worry about the finals later. But that'll show that it'll show they can handle the pressure and that they can they can deal with teams that are truly dynamic, that they don't see that much. That's that's it for me. So I guess my so to your question, Dave, can can either of these teams win both the games? I think they can. I'm going to say that's Oklahoma City. I'm giving them the benefit here.
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