Talking Counter
Episode 129: Featuring Thorin - CS dramas, should FaZe be panicked?, BLAST Lisbon and J.R. Smith
Tue, 25 Mar 2025
moses, YNk, and THORIN are sitting around the proverbial campfire, Talking Counter. Hopefully minor issues: moses sounds like he has a lisp and slight desync issues later in video. We'll troubleshoot that. Join our Discord to discuss the episode with other viewers, get involved with pugs and Fantasy CS! It's a real party.discord.gg/talkingcounter00:00 Intro1:30 VRS and formats (getting it out of the way early)15:10 Zonic coach clip controversy37:17 jL drama not shaking Xantares hand41:55 wack narratives around teams, Falcons G2 VP 50:00 Panic time for FaZe?1:10:00 AWPers, WHAT’S WITH THE DEVICE SLANDER??1:38:07 looking into G2’s and Hunter’s future1:41:37 G2 malbs, heavygod and moving past NiKo1:54:40 BLAST Lisbon Playoff bracket
Chapter 1: What are the latest CS dramas discussed?
This is so intense. It makes me nervous. We're live here. We have Duncan in for Chad this episode. Chad's exhausted. Chad's on a grind. Chad's brain is fried at this point with casting so many events. We brought Duncan in, an old friend of ours. What's going on, Duncan?
What's funny is I would have done the thing. I did it last time I came on, which is like a bit suspicious how I only get invited on the episodes Chad walked beyond. So it makes it seem like Chad has some beef with me. But actually, I realized for this one, Moses. I've done it wrong. I have to think like someone who casts for podcasts. It's the other way around. It's not that Yanko.
It's not that Chad. Chad doesn't even care. Oh, you know that I'm on this episode. The real, what this really tells me is this. It's actually even worse. It means I'm just the last name on Moses Rolodex. We all have it, but we hire podcasts where there's that one guy, you know, we'll say yes tomorrow. If you ask like, see what you do is you wait till the very end.
It's only if there's an emergency, you just ask that guy. I've got people like that too. It's all good.
No, Duncan, you're at the top of my list. There's only so many people I would bring on for an online episode as a guest for this podcast. You're at the very fucking top.
Duncan is the type, you know, break glass in case of a podcast.
We need men like Duncan in esports podcast territory. We need men like him to come and protect our borders.
And you've actually just sort of nailed it there, true, which is nowadays you do them all in person. If you have to do it all online episode, I'm never in person anymore, am I? So yeah, I'm always going to be available. Don't worry, I'm not busy, not working or anything. You know, phone hasn't been ringing, what can I tell you?
Have you been, we haven't, I mean, we haven't got a chance to pick your brain at all. Have you been enjoying the VRS this season? Like it's kind of like not the most sexy topic, but just curious, like how have you been taking it?
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Chapter 2: Should FaZe be panicking about their performance?
Chapter 3: What is the controversy around the Zonic coach clip?
So a mixture of that means that people just thought, like you say, the joke is, like you're saying that's sarcastic. They thought if we get rid of this, we'll have an open circuit. It'll be like the old days. Whereas actually so far, VRS has made it the opposite.
It's actually that basically that's why the saddest thing of all to me is the teams that cynically in the player break just bought three players where they definitely didn't want all three players. That worked. That just gets you the spot. Like, if you actually try, the worst example of this is NIP. If you actually try on paper to go, well, I mean, these are the players I want. Good luck.
You won't get in the system, mate. It's like having to win like 10 online qualifiers in a row without ever losing. You just can't get in. So my problem is, like, obviously I would like a totally open circuit. I'm like a meritocracy guy. I'm just like everyone who's good enough to qualify, you know.
By the way, if that means there's a team I don't like, like maybe Sorsom, I thought that wasn't any good, makes it... They made it. My problem is just that, like, at the moment, we've just seen a lot of the negatives of the VRS at the beginning of the circuit, especially when it was scuffed.
So, like, the most obvious one is if someone does make a new roster, you don't even know if you'll ever see him on Landme. I mean, another one out there is everyone criticizes all these Fnatic moves. Can I just watch them play some lands? Like, I actually think some of those moves could be good, but I don't ever see them on a land, though.
And I'm sorry, you can't judge anything about these teams and what they would do at a land in, like, upper bracket round two of an online qualifier. You know what I mean? No one gives a fuck about that. So the real problem is this. I'll actually now say something positive about BRS.
Once they smooth off some of the rough edges, the best part is about to come up soon, guys, which is that it will qualify you to the major. I always thought the most whack thing ever in CS, we're just really lucky that people are really good at land in CS. Yeah. Because, bro, imagine if we actually had have ever had one of those, like, era-defining teams just flat out not make the major.
Like, the only time ever, as far as I know, a major champion didn't make it was Outsiders when they, like, went to the, they didn't make it to Blast Paris, right? That's the only time ever the former champion. Bro, that could have happened. You could have, like, the obvious angle, by the way, is what if anyone had ever had, like, you know, injury, someone get ill on that day?
That would be a nightmare. The best thing is, I don't know if Jan Kovac because of Jokovic watches fucking tennis or not, but one of the best things about tennis is once you're in the actual ranking spots, you know that guy's at the Grand Slam. There's no, like, oh, he has to play, like, the qualifier to the Grand Slam, and he was ill that day with food poisoning, so he didn't qualify. Like, what?
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Chapter 4: How does the new VRS system affect teams?
Chapter 5: What are the implications of the BLAST Lisbon playoffs?
Yes.
Maybe whether it's... It's just usually privately.
That's the other thing.
That's why scrawny revealing that is actually not as shocking as people realize.
Like you said, loads of people do this way.
Whether it's making jokes about them, like on the broadcast, or if they feel people are too harsh or they complain about their media day schedule. And that's the job. Like I was, I was like, when I was a coach at blast specifically, I was like always having questions about shit. Right. Because like the TOS are always trying to get the most for them.
Your job as being part of a team is to protect your players, protect your team. Right. Like everyone has different interests and you're making compromises and, and that's what it is. Like, that's how you, you function in this ecosystem. But,
Every team has someone whose job is to be the asshole.
With Dana being singled out, and, you know, sure, Scrawny tweets about it, right? Then after, you know, a couple of hours, there's other orgs as well. I didn't see any fucking tweets when you had the bro drama and Astralis was, like, fucking trying to scam in a player. You know, Falcons are an org that just people love to hate on, and people hate watching them, and that's all right, you know?
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Chapter 6: What is the future outlook for G2 and their players?
Chapter 7: Why is the narrative around JL's handshake significant?
Listen, if you want to get on my good side, hire me, bitch. There's that one. But then the other side is, it also was just, I always used to say this, they had all the money in the stadium that Royal Arena's bagging, but it would be like an eight-team tournament with a little group stage, and then you're just off into this small playoff. So it never could feel like Canavates or Cologne.
Right now, that's why I said it on Twitter. Bro, if they actually figure it out, if they make one of their events in the Royal Arena every year, or get some legendary low kick, they could become like Canavates and Cologne now. They've got the event. This event's banging. It's got all the top teams. The format looks really good.
Yeah, I would imagine though that Royal Arena is out of their thing now. Wasn't that their last Royal Arena last year?
Was there a reason why that was though?
Because it was iconic, right? Yeah, I thought – I mean that event was starting to build up to that point to where it was going to be.
Yeah, I thought so.
But I think they still have that availability with – I think Lisbon would be a good one for them to target, which is good timing because they're coming here. But Lisbon has always been a really good event for them. So if they can keep building up Lisbon, I think that will be their new Copenhagen essentially because the crowd is going to be awesome. The arena is going to be cool.
It's going to be loud. It's going to be packed. It's going to be sick. I think –
I think they might have heard in Copenhagen with the Royal Arena, there's just been like in a span of two years, there's been a CS major, TI was there. There was just a shit ton of big esports. Something like Rocket League, World Final or something like that. There's been a ton of events where I guess they struggled a little bit with...
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Chapter 8: How are roster changes impacting team dynamics?
Every other great in-game leader basically has one period, like you're saying, like a bell curve, where it goes to the top. Like you say, they master something about the game or style, but then the problem is they just recapitulate that a million times over, and by the end, it's like diminishing results, isn't it? You're sort of like the ninth best team in your whatever.
But if you notice, Carrigan not only has returned to the top, he's been like, forget like, there's not even a contender for longevity. Like the guy literally could have won the last major. He was like two rounds from doing it. That is like inconceivable. It's mind blowing that someone could still be doing that at his age and experience level.
also who he beat on the way to the he beat the two teams that were beating them all year long right in vitality and and g2 but yeah i think also that's the like you watch phase for example in shanghai in the playoffs and how and their approach on the t side and how they're doing it and you're like this is beautiful Like, everything makes sense.
Like, things that they're doing early in the half set up things for them to do later on in the half. It creates room for specific players at specific timings to make moves. And then, obviously, like you pointed out earlier, those players, they need to make the moves. But when they do and people are playing on a good level, like, it's just beautiful to watch, right? That's why I think...
there's teams that get a little bit lost in how they set up their game, right? Because, yeah, it is more individualistic and everything. But, you know, I feel like it's always cyclical. And the more things change, the more they remain the same. And you only see it really in the highest pressure moments.
why because that's when everyone's fucking testicles shrink everyone is like oh shit well i feel like i should push here but if i do and i die i might have gotten us eliminated from the major you know i'll just fucking play it safe i'll hold my spot i'll hold my part of the map and that's not how you end up winning trophies um and that's why i think
why reason why vitality is also you know above everyone else now obviously the addition of robs from sphinx it's just crazy crazy that they could get him for free crazy that phase would lose drops and twists for free like that's just gross negligence but whatever a different conversation but it is also because when you watch them play they're just fundamentally very sound
They don't give you too... There's not too many openings to punish them. Utility usage is really good. And obviously, every single player on that team is playing with a ton of confidence. So they all are taking initiative. They're aggressive and taking space, putting pressure on your opponents. And there's also, of course, the element of the fear factor when you go up against them.
they're even bigger in your eyes, right? Like you're just, oh, they might be here, they might be there. You feel like they're everywhere as if there's seven of them on the server, you know, and not five. So I think some of these other teams, like, yeah, don't have the game... The plan set up as much like, for example, maybe someone like a G2.
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