Something You Should Know
Seen, Heard, Valued: The Magic of Validation & Pronouns Are Weird! Here’s Why
Mon, 07 Apr 2025
Do you know your blood type? Do you know why we have different blood types? This episode begins with some interesting intel about blood types, why you should know yours and why some people actually have no blood type. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20140715-why-do-we-have-blood-types You have probably heard about the value of validating someone else’s feelings and experience. What you may not have heard is the science that proves just how powerful it is when you want to connect with someone or influence them. When done right, validation can transform a relationship according to my guest Caroline Fleck, PhD. She is a licensed psychologist, and Adjunct Clinical Instructor at Stanford University as well as the author of the book Validation: How the Skill Set That Revolutionized Psychology Will Transform Your Relationships, Increase Your Influence, and Change Your Life (https://amzn.to/3YgpzAK) Pronouns are some of the hardest working words in the English language. I, you, me, he, she, we, they – and yet the way these words behave in our language can sometimes be maddening. For example, the word “you” can mean 1 person or a group of people. In a lot of other languages, there are two different words. While English teachers will tell you that the correct way to say this is, “He and I went to the store” doesn't it feel more natural to say, “Him and me went to the store.”? Joining me to dive into the world of pronouns is John H. McWhorter. He teaches linguistics, American studies, and music history at Columbia University and is the host of the podcast Lexicon Valley (https://slate.com/podcasts/lexicon-valley). John is the author of twenty-three books including his latest, Pronoun Trouble: The Story of Us in Seven Little Words (https://amzn.to/4iSauh1) What should go on a resume? People have lots of ideas of what to include and how to write it but what do hiring managers say they look for? Listen and hear what makes a great resume. https://www.entrepreneur.com/living/the-dos-and-donts-of-the-modern-resume-infographic/244399 PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS!!! FACTOR: Eat smart with Factor! Get 50% off at https://FactorMeals.com/something50off TIMELINE: Get 10% off your order of Mitopure! Go to https://Timeline.com/SOMETHING INDEED: Get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at https://Indeed.com/SOMETHING right now! SHOPIFY: Nobody does selling better than Shopify! Sign up for a $1 per-month trial period at https://Shopify.com/sysk and upgrade your selling today! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: Why is it important to know your blood type?
Do you know your blood type? You probably should and I'll tell you why. Hi and welcome to another episode of Something You Should Know. There are four blood types, A, B, AB, and O. Blood types were first discovered in 1900, and the person who discovered them won a Nobel Prize for it in 1930.
Yet here we are, over a hundred years later, and science still has no idea why we have different blood types. However, knowing about blood types is what allows for life-saving blood transfusions.
Earlier, doctors had tried blood transfusions, but unless they just happened to match up a donor and a receiver by chance who had the same blood type, or if the donor had universal type O, the patient would die. Because your immune system knows your blood type and recognizes another blood type as an invader it cannot defeat. In 1952, some people were discovered to have no blood type at all.
It's called the Bombay phenotype, because Bombay, which is now Mumbai, is where the first people with this were discovered. It is very rare. One in 10,000 people in India have this, and one in one million people outside of India have it. And people with no blood type must get transfusions from other people with no blood type. Even the universal type O can kill them.
And that is something you should know. There's a term in psychology I know you've heard before, validation. To validate someone is to acknowledge their experience. It's not agreeing or disagreeing. It's simply acknowledging the validity of what they believe. And it turns out to be a very powerful way to connect with someone and deepen the conversation and deepen the relationship.
So why does validation work so well? And how do you do it exactly? Well, here to discuss this is Caroline Fleck. She is a licensed psychologist, adjunct clinical instructor at Stanford University, and author of the book Validation, how the skill set that revolutionized psychology will transform your relationships, increase your influence, and change your life. Hi, Caroline.
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Chapter 2: What is the science behind validation?
Welcome to Something You Should Know.
Hello. Thank you for having me.
So, I just explained what validation is from my understanding, but let me have you start by putting a finer point on that.
Yeah, so validation just communicates that you accept and see the validity in another person's experience. It's a way of showing that you're there, you get it, and you care.
And can you validate someone that you don't like, you don't agree with, you have nothing in common with? Can you still validate them?
Such a good question. Yes. In fact, I would argue that these are some of the most important times to validate someone. Validation consists of some degree of being mindful, of understanding, and empathizing with the other person. But you don't have to hit all of those notes. If you can just be mindful, if all you can do is attend, that in and of itself can signal some degree of validation.
It shows that you are engaged, that you are being nonjudgmental, that you are accepting what you are hearing. That is different, very different from saying that you agree with what you are hearing or what the other person's position is.
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Chapter 3: How can validation improve relationships?
Ah, yeah. I would think that's a huge difference because I've had people tell me things that I certainly don't. agree with, but I honor their right to believe and say what they believe and say.
Yeah, I think it even goes beyond that, actually. If we really want to be effective in challenging somebody else's perspective, we cannot get there if we open with disagreement. And I learned this kind of I had a crash course in this through my work as a therapist where you're working with folks who have extremely distorted thoughts, oftentimes to the point of like delusion.
And I have to help that person change how they're thinking. But in order to do so, I need a foot in the door. And so I have to be able to communicate some degree of acceptance. And that is what validation allows me to do.
And you do that, why? What is the magic of validation? What does it do?
Validation is the single most important quality of any relationship. It is as important as love. It is as central as empathy. And yet we rarely talk about it in those terms. But if one does not feel seen or accepted by another, it is very hard to have an intimate, close, trusting relationship with that person.
So I often think of validation as like the skeleton key, not just the key to change or the key to connection, but the skeleton key in that it fosters connection in all sorts of different relationships, in all sorts of different contexts. So it really is that critical.
And so can you give me some like very typical everyday examples of validations? Because we've been talking about it as something that people supposedly know what that is. But what does it look like?
Yeah, so validation can take all sorts of different shapes. Sometimes it's something you say. Sometimes it's something you do. But some examples would be saying something to the effect of, well, anybody in your shoes would want a second opinion. You know, after perhaps a friend tells you that they don't like their doctor and aren't sure about the advice they're getting.
If you were to say, yeah, anyone in your shoes would doubt that. I would get a second opinion too. That's validating. It shows that there is validity in the person's perspective, that they are not crazy for thinking or feeling whatever they're thinking or feeling.
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Chapter 4: What are practical examples of validation?
However, if I was thinking those things, I sure as heck would not trust this therapist. I would withdraw. I would not feel comfortable speaking to them. So if as the therapist, I say, listen, it makes total sense that you are distrustful of me. I understand that you think X, Y, or Z. I can see if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't want to open up either.
So with that, what I'm doing is really just validating that person's emotions. Given what they are thinking, their emotions make sense. I can focus on that part of their experience, validate that, just the emotions. In so doing, I am not in any way validating their thoughts, i.e.
communicating that I think it's logical or that I agree with the rationale, nor am I necessarily validating their behavior. which is another thing we get worried about doing. So it allows me to narrow in on what is valid, what is the kernel of truth in another person's perspective. Because instead, what we tend to do is focus on what we don't like or what we disagree with.
That is our innate negativity bias. Validation forces us to do the opposite. It forces us to find and speak to the validity.
What are some ways, because most of us don't deal with schizophrenics or governments or anything, but just like in everyday life with my kids or my wife or my, like, how would validation, some examples like that would be really helpful.
I'll give a really personal example, if that's okay. I was diagnosed with breast cancer and actually right after completing the book. And I had to do the whole gamut of treatment, you know, mastectomy, radiation, chemotherapy. And in that process, I lost my hair. And my daughter has felt that I am not the same person since I lost my hair.
as though almost like there was like a body swap situation. Like I am a fundamentally different person. I am not the mom that she knows. This has been obviously incredibly painful for me. I don't agree. I see some ways in which I've changed, but I love her dearly. I am still her mother. And I have worked so hard this past year since I've been in recovery to rebuild that relationship with her.
And we've gotten into such a better place. And just the other night we were cuddling and we were just having this really intimate moment. She was saying how she'd missed me throughout the day. And then she said, mom, could you just be the old you for just a minute? Could you just try and be the old you? And it was like a dagger to my heart, right?
It's just, oh, God, this disease has just, it just feels like it's taken so much. And in that moment, what I want to do is say, I am the same person. Honey, I'm here. I'm your mom. I love you. But what probably needs to happen there, what I know needs to happen there, is for her to feel validated.
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Chapter 5: Why don't we naturally use validation?
okay nine times out of ten when people come to us with an issue they're looking for some degree of validation they want to know that we we get it we see it and instead nine times out of ten what we do is we problem solve so kiddo comes home having failed their spelling quiz and they say i i don't know what happened they're so upset they're crying and our inclination is to problem solve hey
You know, tomorrow on the drive into school, we can review the words, okay? Or not tomorrow, but let's say the next time you have a spelling test, we'll review the words on the drive in so that they'll be fresh in your mind. Or maybe we can get a tutor. Maybe that would help. So when we see our kiddos in pain, we want to change that situation.
We want to intervene in some way to prevent them from feeling that pain in the future. That's a disaster because in that moment, the kid is not looking for problem solving. They just want to be validated. And so if instead I say, oh, you've got to be kidding me. You must be so disappointed. You studied so hard. That's so unfair. You'll start to have a very different conversation.
One that ironically or strangely enough may lead you down the path to problem solving at some point. Because once the individual trusts that you get it, they're exponentially more likely to listen to your ideas on how to fix whatever's going on. So in any given moment, be it with our kids, our spouse, whomever, I try to slow down and ask, should I respond with problem solving here or validation?
And that little pause is everything. It really is.
What happens when, what is it that happens when you validate me for whatever reason? What goes on in my head when I hear that?
Yeah, it's a great question. And it kind of depends on the situation. So we know that validation is almost like a natural sedative. It functions to decrease physiological arousal. And so that increased heart rate and even things like pupils dilating that we may or may not be aware of, all of that calms down. And we start to, in calming down, once we're validated,
Through that process of regulation, our brains become able to process more effectively. We're able to listen better. Our memories are sharper. All of that, which gets shut down when we're flooded, comes back online once we've been validated.
It's like a magic elixir that just changes everything. From what you're saying, it's not hard to do if you just remember to do it.
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Chapter 6: What happens in the brain during validation?
And the fascinating thing about using those basic skills is that they actually foster understanding and empathy. Copying in particular, we know functions to help us feel through mirror neurons some of what the other person is feeling. And in so doing, we start to empathize and perhaps understand empathy.
Well, I'm really glad we had this conversation because, you know, I have and I'm sure everyone has heard about validation at times and how important it is. But I never really knew exactly how important it is or also how it worked and why it worked. And I appreciate you coming on and explaining this all. I've been speaking with Caroline Fleck.
She is a licensed psychologist and adjunct clinical instructor at Stanford University and author of the book Validation. How the skill set that revolutionized psychology will transform your relationships, increase your influence and change your life. There's a link to her book at Amazon in the show notes. Caroline, thank you for being here and explaining it.
Thank you so much. Have a great one.
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Imagine how many words you say or write every day. And a lot of those words are pronouns. You know, he, she, we, they. Pronouns. And despite what you might think, pronouns are a fascinating category of words. All languages have some sort of pronouns, but English pronouns behave differently and have evolved differently than in other languages. Here to explain all this is John McWhorter.
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Chapter 7: Is there new science about validation?
So, for example, tu in French is one you, and then vous is plural you. Now, there are all sorts of issues with how you toggle between the two of those, including politeness. And so, for example, in French, you can use vous, the plural one, with one person to indicate politeness and everything. But the thing is, there is a tú, and that's the way languages are supposed to work.
In Spanish, tú, and then, depending on what Spanish you're speaking, either vosotros or you've got ustedes or something for more than one you. That's normal. It's English that's the odd man out in this sense.
So talk about I and me because I think people, well, I hear people get it wrong or what I think is wrong or maybe it isn't wrong. So talk about those.
Yeah, there's an issue with what we call subject and object in English. And it's based on the way Latin works, because the people who first formally described how English works were people who were in the thrall to Latin as one of the most wonderful and complex and elegant languages that had ever existed. And we can understand their perspective.
Travel was harder, and Westerners, whatever you want to call that, were not as cosmopolitan as many of them are now. There was a kind of a Latin fetish. And so we're led to think that I is the subject and me is the object. And therefore, if you say Billy and me went to the store, you're making a mistake because me is an object form and you would never say me went to the store.
And again, it's understandable that people think that you're taught that by people who take themselves quite seriously. But the truth is, it's always been a myth that English has subject and object pronouns in that way.
that latin does and the idea that it does is something that people created in the 1700s based on an idea that that's the way english must work but then the question becomes why is it that you always have to be taught that what is it about english that you know all little kids speaking english naturally say him and me went to the park and then you tell them no it's he and i went to the park because you wouldn't say him went to the park when this is the issue
One, French works exactly that way. You couldn't say Guillaume et je went to the park. You have to say Guillaume et moi. And nobody in French has any problem with it. Why is it such an issue in English? And then also in a language like Spanish. which really does observe the rule that we're told, nobody messes it up. There's no error, no kid would ever say Guillermo y me went to the park.
Guillermo y yo, they know to do it. Why is it that in English kids have such trouble and that people without a certain amount of education supposedly have so much trouble? The truth is that English works differently than Spanish and Latin, and it very much works. There's a whole different rule, it's French's rule, that we're not taught. So there's a grand confusion about that.
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Chapter 8: How does negativity bias affect validation?
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