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Short Wave

How Nature Makes A Complex Brain

16 Apr 2025

Description

A recent series of studies suggests that the brains of birds, reptiles and mammals all evolved independently — even though they share a common ancestor. That means evolution has found more than one way to make a complex brain, and human brains may not be quite as special as we think. To learn more about this, we talk to Fernando García-Moreno about this series of studies he co-authored that came out in Science in February. Want to hear more about the complex road of evolution? Send us an email at [email protected]. Listen to every episode of Short Wave sponsor-free and support our work at NPR by signing up for Short Wave+ at plus.npr.org/shortwave.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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Transcription

Full Episode

0.589 - 2.589 NPR Shortwave Intro

You're listening to Shortwave from NPR.

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31.243 - 52.596 Regina Barber

What do birds, mammals, and reptiles all have in common? We're amniotes, meaning we develop in a fluid-filled egg covered in a membrane. That allows us to develop outside of water, unlike, say, a fish. And that means we all have a common ancestor that branched out into other species that researchers think probably lived over 300 million years ago.

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54.237 - 58.219 Regina Barber

And was probably similar to an amphibian, with some key differences.

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59.983 - 67.049 Fernando García-Moreno

But it already had some specializations, like a different skin, specialized lungs, or brains, etc.

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68.43 - 89.587 Regina Barber

Fernando Garcia Moreno is an evolutionary and developmental neurobiologist. He says for a long time there's been a debate about how amniote brains, like birds and mammals, evolved, and what makes them similar. One brain structure called the pallium has been seen as a comparable structure in birds, mammals, and reptiles.

90.177 - 106.866 Fernando García-Moreno

In every case, in all the species, the pallium is in charge of high task and high hierarchical tasks, such as cognitive processing, sensorial processing, motor control, also language, for instance, in the case of mammals and birds.

107.566 - 116.731 Regina Barber

In mammals, the structure is near the top of the brain. It's sometimes called the cerebral cortex, and it includes an area called the neocortex, plus some other key structures.

117.469 - 125.731 Fernando García-Moreno

the hippocampus which is in charge of memory, for instance, memory processing, or the amygdala which is in charge of emotional processing.

126.158 - 145.111 Regina Barber

Birds and reptiles don't have a neocortex. So some scientists say mammal brains are totally unique. They must have evolved completely separately from birds and reptiles. But other researchers say while birds and reptiles may not have a neocortex, they do have some of the same neurons. They're just in different places.

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