Strange things have been happening to science in the US. An executive order is freezing research, a website with once scientific information now looks kinda like it's advertising a reality show … even milkshakes have been caught in the fray. Milkshakes! On top of this, research projects studying everything from vaccine hesitancy to Covid-19 to climate change have been cut. The Trump administration says that a big reason for the cuts is to stop government waste and boost the economy. Today on the show: What is going on with science in the US right now, and will these cuts ultimately help the economy? To find out, we talk to Nature reporter Max Kozlov, virologist Dr. Seema Lakdawala and economist Professor Andrew Fieldhouse. Find our transcript here: https://bit.ly/ScienceVsWarKeepsRaging In this episode, we cover: (00:00) A Science Milkshake Up (08:04) Research on the Chopping Block (12:15) How the NIH Justifies Cuts (15:11) 25 million lives on the line (16:48) When Nerds Fight Back (24:46) ‘Dangerous’ Gain-of-Function Research Frozen (27:27 ) Does Science Boost the Economy? (36:05) Losing a Science Superpower? This episode was produced by Wendy Zukerman, with help from Meryl Horn, Rose Rimler, Michelle Dang and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact Checking by Sam Lemonick. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munger, Bumi Hidaka, Peter Leonard, So Wiley and Bobby Lord. Thanks to Maya Golden-Krasner, Deputy Director at the Climate Law Institute at the Center for Biological Diversity – who you heard at the beginning of the show, saying this is just a daily stream of nightmare news, and also thank you Dr Shaye Wolf. Special thanks to Lindsey Cherner and Whitney Potter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What strange things are happening to science in the US?
Hi, I'm Wendy Zuckerman and you're listening to Science Versus. Today on the show, the unprecedented and sometimes rather strange things that have been happening to science in the US recently. Milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard, so they say. But recently they've also been courting some controversy. Rose Rimlett, Senior Producer at Science Versus, tell us about the milkshakes.
Okay, so this all started a couple months ago. Researchers at the NIH, that's the National Institutes of Health, they published a study where they gave people ultra-processed milkshakes. So these are vanilla shakes. They were loaded with fat and sugar, like all milkshakes, but also emulsifiers and artificial flavorings, that kind of stuff. And then they put these people into PET scanners.
PET scanners?
They're scanning their brains? Yes.
What did they want to know?
They were testing out this idea that certain foods might be as addictive as drugs. So, you know, you often hear people say that about sugar. Right. And it's also an idea that's out there about ultra processed foods, that they might be addictive. So what the scientists at the NIH wanted to see was whether drinking a milkshake could cause someone's brain to send out a big whoosh of dopamine.
In the same way that you might see with addictive drugs, right? Like that happens with cocaine, for example. So was the milkshake... Bringing all the dopamine to the yard?
Yeah, bringing all the dopamine to the yard.
No. So as a rule, drinking the milkshake did not lead to a big rush of dopamine. Uh-huh. And that doesn't mean that ultra-processed food or sugar is considered healthy now, but it throws a little cold water on the idea that these foods are addictive in the same way that drugs are addictive.
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Chapter 2: Why are research projects being cut?
Chapter 3: How does the NIH justify funding cuts?
So the protocol that he follows before these interviews is he reaches out to his overlords at the NIH to let them know about the request and that he wants to do the interview. But this time, for the first time, according to Kevin, the NIH said no. They denied his request. He also says that they quashed a press release that was going to come out about the study.
So it seemed to him that the NIH didn't want to publicize the study at all. You know, eventually they agreed to let him answer some written questions from the Times reporter. But then they reviewed his answers and they changed them. Kevin says that their changes kind of downplayed the results.
So he interpreted this to mean that the powers that be at the NIH didn't like this finding that milkshakes are not necessarily addictive. Kind of wanted to bury it a little bit.
Why would they... care this much about a milkshake study.
I know, it's like... They got a lot on their plate right now. Why does it matter that much?
Yeah, it's not like there's none of like deep milkshake throat like being met in a parking garage, you know. Sanding over government secrets. Yeah, it seems very weird. Because usually when the government has some issue with some research, it's like there's corruption with industry pressure. There's like a government screw-up that's trying to get covered over.
This one doesn't appear to make any sense until you start to pay attention to what the current Secretary of Health and Human Services, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., has been saying recently about ultra-processed food and sugar.
And sugar is poison. And Americans need to know that.
Uh-huh. This is a big talking point for Kennedy's Make America Healthy Again platform. Here he is talking about sugar at a press briefing recently.
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