This is the first time they have seen each other since their break up in 2018. Over 6 years. And now they’re going to be on opposite sides of the courtroom - she’s going to be up on the stand testifying against him. Detailing all the things she didn’t want to do. The urination. The inflatable pool in the middle of a hotel room filled to the brim with baby oil. The seedy green “adult activity” club in Las Vegas. Even breaking up with Kid Cudi. And he will sit there and listen for 2 days straight while she tells the jurors about the injuries he gave her. How he stomped on her face and blackmailed her with explicit videos. All their private messages, photos, and emails will be shown to the court. This is the testimony of Cassie Ventura against Sean Diddy Combs and the reactions of her, her husband, and Sean Combs in the courtroom.
Chapter 1: Why is Cassie's Husband's Presence Controversial in Court?
Sometimes there's a lot that happens when the jurors are not in the courtroom. Like the fact that there is a fight to decide whether or not Cassie can have her husband in the courtroom being her emotional support. The defense attorney, Anna Esteveo, says, We understand Ms. Ventura's husband, Alex Fine, may be present in the courtroom, and we expect him to be a potential defense witness.
So we would ask that he be excluded. which makes sense if he's also going to be on the witness stand. He should not be listening to another witness who also happens to be his wife and the mother of his soon-to-be three children. That makes sense. However, Prosecutor Emily Johnson states more or less, no, that doesn't make sense at all. We were advised of this approximately 10 minutes ago.
He's not included on the defense witness list. Ms. Ventura's husband is here with his family to support his wife and testify publicly. We had under the CVRA, she has the right to be treated with dignity and privacy, and she would like support in this courtroom as she testifies. To which lead defense attorney, Tenny Garagos, even states, if I could just elaborate.
What we have given the government is the witness list for our case in chief. The reasons are important because at this time, we can't really tell your honor who we know we would call. At this time, we can't say who definitely would call. And we certainly, the judge asks, wait, why wasn't this raised before this morning when he's here with his entire family inside this courthouse?
Wait, so he's already in the courthouse and they're debating to kick him out?
Yes, he's in the courthouse waiting to come into the courtroom when Tassie comes in to testify. Cassidy's brother is here, so is her cousin. Your Honor, I apologize. I brought this up to Ms. Comey, but not Ms. Johnson yesterday. This is my fault. And then I didn't follow up on it last night. I apologize. We're not looking to not have her have her support people.
Her brother is here, who was around all the while in their relationship, and we have our application, Your Honor, is that Ms. Ventura's husband not be in the courtroom under Rule 615. Rule 615 is basically the don't be listening if you're going to talk rule.
The rule provides courts with the authority to exclude witnesses from the courtroom to prevent them from hearing other witnesses' testimonies. I mean, the whole point being it's to prevent witnesses from tailoring their testimony based on what they hear from other witnesses.
So, for example, if everybody saw the defendant, this is not about combs, just like a hypothetical defendant, if they saw him kick a koala, then it would be unfair for the group of people to hear each other testify about how he kicked them, what he said after he kicked the koala, and then they all testify in a row.
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Chapter 2: What Are the Accusations Against Sean Combs?
what the real reason is on why the defense perhaps did not want Alex Fine in the courtroom.
That's what I was wondering.
It just, I don't know. I mean, who could say, right? It could very much be that they're going to call him up as a witness, or it could also be the fact that from the moment that Alex Fine walks into that courtroom, because I was sitting behind him for most of the testimony days of Cassie, like directly behind him.
Like he's in the role in front of you.
Literally right in front of him. If I lean my head forward because the pews are kind of smashed together, I would headbutt his back. Wow. The whole time when he walked in, he had his head held high, his chest out, and he stared a lot at Sean Combs and all of his family members. And let's just say I personally would not want to be on the receiving end of that kind of stare.
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Also, just us all being in New York and going to court every day. We'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support as we work on our mission to be worthy advocates. As always, full show notes are available at RottenMangoPodcast.com. A few disclaimers before we get started. Regarding content, there are themes of DVSA and sex trafficking. Please watch with caution.
This episode is going to be a lot heavier than the recent ones, so please take a break if you need to. Many of the quotes in the statements included have been shortened and or moved around and or condensed for brevity and clarity. However, this week's testimony was impossible to shrink into a standalone episode, so this is going to be a two-parter.
In the first part, we're going to cover... It might even be a three-parter with two parts covering the direct and then one part covering the cross-examination. And there's just... It's going to be questioning of the same defense, but I think...
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Chapter 3: What is Cassie's Experience with 'Freak Offs'?
I mean, it's like...
Like hours at a time.
So it's the jurors come in. Judge Arun really tries to do 930 to five. It's like a 30 minute lunch and then maybe a handful of 10 minute breaks, like maybe three 10 minute breaks.
And she's sitting on this wooden bench for the majority of the day.
Well, I think it has some cushions that one.
Oh, okay.
But still very uncomfortable.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, very uncomfortable and very cold. Everyone in the courtroom is cold and she looked cold as well. And it's just so silent. You can hear the sketch artist just like furiously drawing on their little posters. Through Cassie, the jury learns that she is 38 years old now. She was in an on-and-off relationship with Combs for a little over 11 years.
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Chapter 4: How Did Cassie's Relationship with Sean Combs Develop?
She, I feel like it's the three people in the three different generations. The way that Janice Combs, Sean Combs, Christian King Combs stares at people is similar and it sends, it makes you want to pee. Like, especially if you're not expecting it and you feel like they're looking in your general area. Not that I think that they're ever looking at me, but you get the idea.
If you feel like they're looking in your general area, it kind of gives you a type of feeling. So there's this moment where Janice Combs, Sean Combs' mom, I thought she was side-eyeing me. Not that I am anybody, but just because I look over there, she's two rows ahead of us, but on the left side. So diagonally, two rows. But for Alex Fine, she's only one row ahead, right?
And I see her, and she's like...
her head is still towards the front of the courtroom but her eyes are peeking over her sunglasses and it is the most intense side eye I've ever seen from anybody and I was thinking what did I do like did I accidentally bump into her at the restroom she was not looking at me she was looking at Alex fine and she held that glare for oh my god it was the longest glare ever
Really? Was Alex aware of that glare?
I don't think so. But it was a really long glare. Just so intense. And with that, there are a lot of things that have gone viral now with the direct questioning or the direct examination by Prosecutor Johnson. So she's standing at the podium. Ms. Ventura, do you recognize who is depicted in Government Exhibit 2A-501? Yes. Who is it? Scott Mescady, or Kid Cudi as people know him. We dated in 2011.
We worked together for a brief period. Cassie says that when they were dating in 2011, she did not tell Sean Combs, but he did find out. How did he find out? He actually found out during a freak off in LA. He went through my phone and I believe he saw emails between me and one of Scott's staff members. It was about bringing my toiletry bag to my house or something like that the next day.
What was his reaction after he saw those emails? I just remember him putting like a wine bottle opener between his fingers and lunging at me. His eyes were blacked out, super angry, and I just had to get out of there. It was actually another time that I was able to get out of a freak-off. She runs away to another hotel, gets her burner phone, so she's got a burner phone so that she can call Scott.
Eventually, he picks her up. She's saying, this whole situation is not going to be resolved if I just keep running away. She's like, I gotta go and just explain to Sean what's going on. We were on a break. Maybe we're moving on. Maybe we're all moving on. And it's not like he's not seeing other people.
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Chapter 5: What Evidence Was Presented During Cassie's Testimony?
And I was also just terrified. Because the prosecutor is asking, why didn't you just tell her the truth? Like, that this has been going on for so long. Like, it's not normal. What's not normal? Just constantly being bruised up by the person that you love or that says they love you. Like, you can't justify it to anyone, just especially not your mom.
At that point, Cassie requests that Scott and her break up. At this point in the testimony, Cassie requests a break. And so she walks out abruptly. Her husband is also following her out. Now, I will say that Alex's fine the whole time. He doesn't look happy.
especially when he's looking in the general direction of where the defendant and the defendant's family are sitting, I would not even say that he looks stoic or neutral. He looks kind of pissed. But when he's walking out after Cassie requests a break, he looked like he was ready to burn the world down for her.
Really?
Yeah, he looked very upset. But in a protective way. It didn't just look like he's... I'm so angry. You know, it just he seemed very upset. Like, I think he's upset at the fact that his wife is going through this. After that break, Cassie comes back to tell the court that in Connecticut, because Kid Cudi had come to Connecticut with her, she just wanted to break it up with him.
She said it was too much danger, too much uncertainty of what could happen if they kept seeing each other. When you say danger, what specific danger were you worried about? I mean, Sean said to me before I left L.A. that he was going to hurt the both of us. And I at least took that in my mind, like if I stay in this situation, we both will be hurt. If I don't, no one will be.
He mentioned that when we were out of the country, that Scott's car would be blown up. He wanted his friends to be there to see it. When you say he wanted his friends to be there to see it, who is he?
Sean wanted Scott's friends to be there to see the car get blown up in the driveway This is what I said a few months ago about Kid Cudi and his car But after that incident Cassie Combs and Kid Cudi do end up meeting up with each other and this is like information that I have not come across until the testimony at Soho house in LA the purpose of the meeting was to discuss the relationship that we were no longer in and
Yeah, and the only thing I remember from the end was Scott asking Sean. Scott said, what about my vehicle? And Sean said, what vehicle? And that was the end of the meeting.
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Chapter 6: What Were the Reactions in the Courtroom During Testimony?
Cassie says she personally saw guns in his New York, LA, Miami, and Jersey residences, just like laid out on the table by security, handguns. She says, yeah, maybe there was no point in those guns being laid out on the tables. She said it felt psychological. She says it's a vague memory. Just, they came out here and there, and guns were taken out here and there.
So, like, just, I always felt like it was just a bit of a scare tactic. I didn't really know for what purpose. However, Suge Knight is now in prison, and he has always been suspicious of Sean Combs, and he still does jailhouse interviews saying that he's suspicious of Sean Combs. But since we're on Suge Knight, we also have to talk about Notorious Big real quick.
Cassie mentions that there are aliases that the two of them would use to book hotel rooms for these freak-offs. Cassie went by Jackie Starr, Veronica Bang, and Anita Crawford. Combs went by Frank Black or Frank White. She's asked... Turning to Jackie Star. Why did you use the name Jackie Star? That was a name that I don't know who came up with it.
If it was him or me that I just used to actually book dancers. So I would use that name instead of my own name and then just started using it as a hotel room name. But she never mentions why Combs was named Frank Blacklight or Frank White. But if you look online, Biggie Smalls would often refer to himself as Frank White. He got the name from a movie character who, quote, goes from ashy to classy.
And he would sometimes be called Black Frank White because it's just a big part of his lore. So if you're not familiar with the Biggie lore, I will link that episode below or just wait because there have been whispers that the conversation is going to arise again sometime. Biggie has since obviously passed, but there's there's whispers that it's going to be a bigger conversation later on.
Prince is also brought up. Cassie is explaining that one day she was with her makeup artist, Myla Morales, at the Beverly Hills Hotel. And one of the friends, she's just there with a group of girlfriends. One of the friends is like, do you know that Prince is having a party at his house? He's going to perform. I mean, we got to go.
It's like a once in a lifetime experience to see Prince at a private performance. So Cassie shows up. She says, we arrived and went downstairs. There weren't that many people there and Prince wasn't performing yet. So we were just there and I saw some executives from like BET. I saw different people that I knew through Sean. And then suddenly I heard that he was there.
Prince or Sean?
Sean. She did not tell him. I mean, it's not like she was... I mean, she thought that if she told him, he was going to say no. It's not that he asked and she lied. She just was with her girlfriends. And then the night ended up at Prince's house at a party where there's a bunch of other people.
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Chapter 7: What Impact Does Cassie’s Testimony Have on Public Perception?
I wasn't expecting anything like that. I just really, like at a loss, I didn't know how to react. I didn't want to upset him if I said that it scared me or if I said anything outside of, okay, let's try it, because I was just always down for the things he wanted to do. I was really nervous, like really, really nervous. What, if anything, did Sean say to you about swinging?
Swinging was brought up separately and it was a lifestyle that he taught me about, about couples that switch partners. And yeah, I didn't really have too much knowledge of it. Did you agree to try a freak-off when Sean first proposed one? I did. Approximately how old were you when Sean first proposed freak-offs to you? I think I just turned 22.
And how did it come, how did the term freak-off come about? I honestly don't remember exactly how it came about. Can you describe for the jury when you say the term freak-off what that entails? Um, basically it entails the hiring of an escort and setting up the experience so that I could perform for Sean. And what did the performance involve at a high level?
The performance involved, I'm sorry, she seems to start getting emotional. It just involved watching Sean was, Sean being able to watch me with the other person and direct, like direct us on what we were doing sexually. And when you say the other person, who are you referring to? The third party, the escort or dancer that would be hired?
Cassie explains during the freak-offs, combs would provide ecstasy and alcohol. What did you wear to the first freak-off? Specifically, I don't know exactly, but it was definitely an outfit from a sex store. Hustler or something with some really high platform shoes, like dancing shoes. Always super see-through, netting outfit. It varied. Just like a sexy outfit from a store.
What are some of the stores you would buy outfits at? In LA, there's a store called Pleasure Chest, Hustler on Sunset. Here in the city, there's just like little shops everywhere. She says that she would always wear those stripper dance shoes, just like extremely high heels, uncomfortable but extremely high. She would wear them throughout the entire freak off.
Sometimes if there was a break, she would take them off, but mainly she would wear them throughout. Who decided what you would wear to the freak-offs? I would purchase outfits and show Sean and see what he liked the best. What, if anything, did you do to disguise your appearance?
She states later that the very first time Sean told her that they would be wearing masks, like a masquerade mask, and then later sometimes she would wear glasses, sometimes she would wear wigs. What if any supplies were needed for freak-offs? Main supplies were baby oil, astroglide as lubricants, and condoms. Who typically bought the supplies for the freak-offs?
More often than not, it was the staff. The room was usually stocked by the time we got there. If not, if it were a last-minute situation that I set up, I would get things or sometimes Sean would bring them. Initially, what kind of lighting was used for freak-offs? Initially, it was candlelit, so various candles. What kind of candles were used?
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