We talk with Eric Garcia, author of We’re Not Broken: Changing the Autism Conversation and a political reporter at the Independent, about the myths spreading about autism under Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Yes, there’s the one about how vaccines cause autism, which the scientific community has rejected. But there’s also a more fundamental one that Kennedy references often: Is there, as he repeats, an “autism epidemic”? And if not, what explains the dramatic rise in reported cases of autism over the last few decades? Garcia also recounts his own story growing up autistic in the age of exploding diagnoses, and landing now in a moment where, for his job, he covers a health secretary’s particular brand of concern. Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/podsub. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: What myths about autism does RFK Jr. perpetuate?
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is very concerned about autism. He has been for a couple of decades, since he first became convinced that mercurian vaccines made children autistic, which, by the way, there is no credible evidence supporting this theory. On April 16th, now as head of Health and Human Services, RFK gave a press conference, and he described the tragedy of what he calls the autism epidemic.
For years, he's insisted there is an epidemic, even though there's a lot of debate among researchers about this, all of which he dismisses as, quote, epidemic denial, a term he repeated several times in that press conference.
There are many, many other studies that affirm this. And instead of listening to... to this canard of epidemic denial, all you have to do is start reading a little science because the answer is very clear. And this is catastrophic for our country.
Catastrophic, he says, because a lot of families are suffering as they watch their kids struggle in life. And it's true. A lot of families are suffering. I'm Hannah Rosen. This is Radio Atlantic. there is a lot of confusion out there about autism, why it's increasing, if it's even increasing, and what even counts as autism.
Chapter 2: Is there really an autism epidemic?
And I think it's fair to say that RFK's strong and public entry into this debate has not in any way helped to clear things up. So we're going to talk to someone who writes about autism, also covers politics for the UK paper The Independent, and is himself autistic. Eric Garcia, author of We're Not Broken, Changing the Autism Conversation. Eric, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
So Eric, you covered that April 16th press conference that RFK held about autism. Mm-hmm. Was there anything in his statement that stuck out to you?
Yeah. You know, there was obviously the whole thing, which is that autism destroys families.
It's an individual tragedy as well. Autism destroys families. More importantly, it destroys our greatest resource, which are our children.
Saying that autism destroys children or destroys families is so corrosive and it goes into the larger stereotype that people with disabilities are a burden.
These are kids who will never pay taxes. They'll never hold a job. They'll never play baseball. They'll never write a poem. They'll never go out on a date. Many of them will never use a toilet unassisted.
I hear him taking some of the most intimate and graphic details of autistic people's lives and using it as a pawn for spreading disinformation.
These are children who should not be suffering like this. These are kids who many of them were fully functional and regressed because of some environmental exposure into autism when they're two years old. And we have to recognize we are doing this to our children.
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Chapter 3: How has the perception of autism changed over time?
You saw an increase in the number of children being served who had what we now consider autism spectrum disorders. So it's kind of this strange marriage of science improving and government policy causing a windfall. So it was easy, I think, for people to look at those numbers and say epidemic.
Right. And the obvious question is why. Now, RFK seems pretty certain about what the cause is.
Within three weeks, and probably we're hoping in two weeks, we're going to announce a series of new studies to identify precisely what the environmental toxins are that are causing it. This has not been done before. and we're going to do it in a thorough and comprehensive way, and we're going to get back to it with an answer to the American people very, very quickly.
By the way, Eric, it's been like two or three weeks and that report never came out, at least not yet. But the important phrase to me in that is precisely what environmental toxins are causing it. Not if environmental toxins are causing it, but which ones. So what does he mean by that?
He's basically concluded, despite this openness he has to doing research, that the cause of autism is environmental toxins. What is he referring to?
This is something that's been talked about for a long time, which is that environmental toxins have contributed, if not play a major role in the increase in autism rates. And then the other major culprit is, of course, vaccinations and particularly the MMR vaccination, the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine. And that has been debunked multiple times.
The guy who put out that study, Andrew Wakefield, had his medical license revoked in the United Kingdom. And the study that was put out in 1998 was retracted in 2010.
Right. So, okay. So we have pinned down what RFK believes. This is an environmental toxin. Let's get to the root of it.
Correct.
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Chapter 4: What are the causes of increased autism diagnoses?
Yes.
What is your experience as a child, growing child, of how people are talking about autism?
This is a really – it's funny. The way that my mom says it is that – so we were living in Wisconsin at the time. And she read this ad in the paper for like free pre-case readings. This was like in 1994, 94, 95. They couldn't pinpoint, but they said there was something quote-unquote wrong with me or there was something like I wasn't hitting the marks.
But you have to remember, of course, you know, there's always a lag in scientific understanding. Like when something is established, you know, officially versus like when it, you know, enters our bloodstream, so to speak, or, you know, enters the zeitgeist. So they didn't know. But they were like, well, he's verbal. He can speak. So we don't know if that's autism and things like that.
And then what happened was we moved to Sacramento. And... what just so happened and according to my mom is that, you know, she was trying to get services and things like that. They say he's fine. There's nothing wrong with him. It's weird. Like in Wisconsin, they're like, he's something's, something's quote unquote wrong.
And then in California, it's there's quote unquote, there's nothing wrong with him. And then it just so happens that my dad's boss, uh, wife, uh,
happened to be like the head of like special education for the entire region so like that got me like an in and then what happened is we were living in uh is that after we moved to san antonio texas and there was this one doctor who i guess had been researching autism for a while so it's it's and then they were like well this is what it's called this is asperger's syndrome and then like i started and it's funny because you know when you hear this term asperger's syndrome it's like you
You can imagine the kind of jokes that are made on the playground at the time. And, you know, it was funny because my diagnostic journey kind of matched the science and the public understanding as it was coming.
So the scientific consensus and Derek's life seem to show that a major reason autism is, quote, on the rise is because of improved awareness and access to health care. But within the autism community, there's a lot less consensus about what RFK is saying and what should be done next. That's after the break. RFK is not the only person, though, who believes that.
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Chapter 5: How do environmental factors relate to autism?
that this isn't just about diagnoses. Correct. Right. So there are legitimate scientists who would say, oh, it's not just a matter of we're capturing more people. There is something going on. So I want to talk about that for a minute. Even RFK agrees that autism has a genetic component. Like studies of identical twins have shown that they are more likely to both be autistic.
What other factors have people found have contributed to autism since the 1990s?
Yeah, there have been talks about how like, you know, parents having children older. Right, the age of fathers. The age of fathers is one of the things. There's talk about mutated sperm, you know, so there definitely is some discussion.
Chapter 6: What personal experiences shape Eric Garcia's views on autism?
And, you know, and I should note that the United States spends so much money on researching autism and like a large chunk of that research of the projects we've, the United States government and nonprofits fund are about biology.
So what in your mind is the problem with RFK calling it an epidemic?
The problem with RFK calling it an epidemic, in my opinion, is that it treats it like it's a crisis. It treats it as if it's something to be fixed or something to be mitigated and something to be stopped. And when we already spend so much time researching the biology and researching, and I'm not necessarily even opposed to researching biology. I think it could be worthwhile.
I think it could lead to scientific breakthroughs. It could help with finding ways to treat co-occurring conditions like epilepsy. A lot of autistic people die from epileptic seizures. But like treating it as like crisis and treating it as something to be fixed or prevented is corrosive to a lot of families. It's corrosive to a lot of autistic people. It puts the blame back on parents.
And it focuses more on fixing this issue rather than accommodating and giving services to autistic people, when the pie is so scarce. You know, this is the same administration that, you know, is trying to cut Medicaid.
Right. So when you're standing and listening to RFK say things like this, to you the message is... Something about me needs to be fixed.
Yes. And something about a large amount of people needs to be fixed rather than these are people who are human beings who need services and who need support and who need acceptance in the world.
I want to talk about how RFK's statements have opened up and exposed certain rifts inside the world of autism. Yes. She writes, when RFK Jr. said in a recent press briefing, the same one we've been talking about, that autistic children will never pay taxes, never hold a job, never play baseball, many people in the autism community reacted angrily. Probably you did, Eric.
And yet, I was transported back to the psychiatrist's office and the bleak prognosis that my child might never speak again. I found myself nodding along as Mr. Kennedy spoke about the grim realities of profound autism. Can you explain what this divide is about between, say, a community that you represent and this parent's community of children who she describes as profoundly autistic?
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