Karla Lally Music
👤 PersonPodcast Appearances
I'm Carla Lally Music, cookbook author and curable food lover and the host of Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio. Have you ever wondered where the hazelnuts and Nutella come from or how Keebler has stuck around for over a century?
Whether you've got a sweet tooth or curious about flavor science or want to know what's next in the world of R&D, tune in to Sweets Unwrapped wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Karla Lally Music, cookbook author and snack enthusiast. Do you have a sweet tooth? Tune in to Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, where I dive into the stories behind America's favorite treats.
I'm Karla Lally Music, cookbook author and snack enthusiast. Do you have a sweet tooth? Tune in to Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, where I dive into the stories behind America's favorite treats.
Ich bin Carla Lolli-Musik, Kochbuchautorin und kürbische Nahrungsgeberin und die Hostin von Sweets Unwrapped, einem neuen Podcast von Ferrero und Atlantic Rethink, der Atlantik-Kreativ-Marketing-Studio. Habt ihr jemals gewusst, woher die Haselnüsse und Nutella kommen? Oder wie Keebler seit über einem Jahrhundert gestanden ist?
Ob ihr einen süßen Teig habt oder interessiert seid über Flavorscience oder wollt wissen, was in der Welt von R&D kommt, schreibt euch zu Sweets Unwrapped, wo auch immer ihr eure Podcasts bekommt.
I'm Karla Lally Music, cookbook author and snack enthusiast. Do you have a sweet tooth? Tune in to Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, where I dive into the stories behind America's favorite treats.
I'm Karla Lally Music, cookbook author and snack enthusiast. Do you have a sweet tooth? Tune in to Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, where I dive into the stories behind America's favorite treats.
Reading is just so central to my mind to what it means to be human.
I just think what a magical time your teenage years are. to form those kinds of impressions and books have been the reliable way to do that. So it's like, it's alarming to me that kids would be cut off from that voluntarily or through some other force.
I'm Karla Lally Music, cookbook author and snack enthusiast. Do you have a sweet tooth? Tune in to Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, where I dive into the stories behind America's favorite treats.
I'm Karla Lally Music, cookbook author and snack enthusiast. Do you have a sweet tooth? Tune in to Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, where I dive into the stories behind America's favorite treats.
What would it take to convince you that AI is sentient? Hmm. I think it's not just a single question. On this season of The Most Interesting Thing in AI, we ask all our guests this very question.
I think when an LLM tells you something that appears to be sentient, it's just mimicking human data.
Join us weekly starting May 14th for The Most Interesting Thing in AI, brought to you by Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, in collaboration with PWC, wherever you get your podcasts.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
I'm Karla Lally Music, cookbook author and snack enthusiast. Do you have a sweet tooth? Tune in to Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, where I dive into the stories behind America's favorite treats.
I'm Carla Lally Music, cookbook author and curable food lover and the host of Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio. Have you ever wondered where the hazelnuts and Nutella come from or how Keebler has stuck around for over a century?
Whether you've got a sweet tooth or curious about flavor science or want to know what's next in the world of R&D, tune in to Sweets Unwrapped wherever you get your podcasts.
On a long road trip over winter break, I listened to all 10 episodes of this podcast called The Telepathy Tapes. The show is about a group of non-speaking autistic kids who are able to communicate using a method sometimes known as spelling or facilitated communication. Essentially, someone, the facilitator, helps guide the kids using a keyboard or an iPad to spell out messages.
Okay. So what's in the mix then? Let me just try this and you see if I'm with you here. So it's not lying you think is in the mix between this parent and child. It's some form of communion, like love, maybe even connection. I would say like hope, like there's so much out there. I'm a parent of an autistic child, though, not a nonverbal one, but so much hope of, uh,
Why were so many people buying into this? I'm Hannah Rosen. This is Radio Atlantic. Today, we're going to talk about how an idea like telepathy lands differently now. The cultural conditions that make this old idea that's almost too fringe to bother debunking take off.
Like, inside the child, there's so much that this child wants to say and express with me and, like, a wish for connection. Like, there's a relationship or intimacy, and that translates into something, but it's not clear what it is. Is it something like that?
After the break, if you believe telepathy is real, what else might you believe? So facilitated communication has been around for decades, and as you said, has been debunked. But this podcast goes way further than that, right?
Oh, so the flaws that you've already described in facilitated communication, if you're not seeing them as flaws, the other word to call them is telepathy.
And we're going to do that by looking at this blockbuster podcast, The Telepathy Tapes, which started out as this low-budget independent project. And then in December, Joe Rogan started spreading the word.
Yes. Oh, my God. That's so obvious. I don't know why I didn't realize that. That's exactly what it is. Of course, you would call that telepathy.
Because you are, in fact, reading the thoughts of the facilitator. It's literally just a synonym for the problems you were describing.
Does the podcast talk about the history of facilitated spelling or telepathy at all?
And what would you say about that? Because I do have to say, listening, Akhil and his mother are the most charming mother-son pair you will ever encounter.
And then the host of Telepathy Tapes, her name is Kai Dickens, got an agent, did an interview with Rogan, and then more interviews, and now she has a documentary in the works. From the car that day, I sent a Slack message to an Atlantic colleague who knows a lot about facilitated communication.
Yeah, I have to say, listening to Akhil and his mother, I mean, never was I more torn. Like, I was tearing up listening to them, but mostly because of the depth of their love and attunement for each other and her dedication to him. Like, I wasn't so much paying attention to, is he telepathic? I just doubted it from the beginning.
But just this specific kind of intimacy they created with each other was just amazing. So what, you know, we've been talking about spelling and love. What are some of the more, can we say, outlandish claims that the podcast makes?
But it's not just communing with the dead. I mean, you know, where it lost me is she's talking about universities in heaven. I mean, there are some of the parents who feel extremely influenced by religiosity or spirituality.
Yes. You're off to the races. Yeah. Once you've gone through the portal, like magic happens. Anything can happen.
That is Dan Engber, a science writer at The Atlantic.
Exactly. Exactly. They're correct. So you and I could sit here in our mutual podcast spaces and, you know, be skeptical. And yet the podcast has been enormously popular. As you were reporting, it's now been a few months. How did you see the podcast evolve as a cultural phenomenon?
Dan started looking into facilitated communication about 10 years ago.
And then he had Kai Dickens on more recently.
As part of the disabilities rights movement, a form of empowerment.
So, meaning that there have been people forever who have wanted to believe in counter-narratives or believe that you're being lied to. And just right now, that's ascendant? Like, that energy is ascendant?
Yeah, they do meet in this place where, you know, mystical ideas, you know, intuition, anything that mainstream science or the experts don't believe is ascendant. Now, you are a person who is a science journalist who does want to align yourself with what the mainstream scientific institution finds to be true. So what do you make of a moment like this?
The way it works is a facilitator helps the autistic person spell out messages.
Dan, you have thoroughly explained this phenomenon to me. Thank you so much.
This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Janae West and Kevin Townsend. It was edited by Claudina Bade, engineered by Erica Wong, and fact-checked by Sarah Kralewski. Claudina Bade is the executive producer of Atlantic Audio, and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor. I'm Hannah Rosen. Thank you for listening.
Now, to be clear, spelling, facilitated communication, or FC for short, is not reading people's minds, or it's not supposed to be. So it's a bit of a jump from FC to telepathy, which is why Dan agreed to look into the Telepathy Tapes podcast. It was a new, let's say, development. Kai Dickens, the host of the podcast, is not a science journalist.
In interviews, she's referred to herself as a science nerd and a skeptic. Generally, she makes documentaries, but since she didn't have the funds at the time to make this documentary, she decided to make it into a podcast. By the way, The Atlantic reached out to Dickens for comment, but she didn't respond. Okay, so the podcast begins with the series of spelling experiments that she's running.
That already is a kind of magic, because kids who have been unable to communicate can now share their thoughts. But this podcast takes it to a whole new level of magic. It's not just that they can communicate. These kids can read minds.
Sort of living room experiments. Yeah. What's the setup? Like, describe to us who and what is in this room.
And I have to say, listening to it, now just in the pure audio, obviously I can't see it, but I'm listening to it, it is like Like a magic show. I mean, when you listen to it, you do think, whoa, you know, how are they doing this in the way they're describing? Like, how is this autistic child doing this? Like how the mother hasn't said a word. You haven't heard the mother say a word.
So that's the feeling of listening to it. It is a little like watching a miracle. you know, listening to a miracle without watching it. And I think that's probably a key difference.
Okay, so back to my original question, Dan, as someone who knows about facilitated communication and spelling, what are we missing?
By the end of the series, the kids are not just reading minds. They're commuting with the dead, predicting disasters, and generally outclassing the neurotypical mortals.
Facilitated communication found its way from Australia in the 70s to the U.S. by the 80s and the early 90s. In a PBS Frontline documentary called Prisoners of Silence that aired in 1993, Kathy Hayduke, the mother of a non-speaking autistic child, recalled the moment her daughter Stacey had a breakthrough, all thanks to FC and her daughter's new facilitator.
I can understand a mom wanting to hear I love you from her child. So the relief was real. And the emotions around FC were deep. But soon after the method came to the U.S., it was debunked, or at least declared wholly unreliable.
To quote a program director in the PBS documentary who was involved in some of that testing, out of 180 trials, quote, we literally really didn't get one correct response. Are you suggesting manipulation? Or what are you suggesting exactly?
As we mentioned before, FC in its original form was just holding someone's hand or arm or shoulder while the other person typed on a keyboard. Potentially, at least optics-wise, lots of room for subconsciously guiding the person to where you want them to type. But in Mia's case, on the Telepathy Tapes podcast, her mom just had a finger on her forehead or she was holding her chin.
On that road trip, my partner and I got into a big argument about this podcast. The mind-reading scenes sounded so believable on the podcast. But telepathy?
Okay. So the filmmaker had a certain reaction, which we can assume was an honest reaction. I mean, let's just say it was an honest reaction, the filmmaker and the cameraman. They looked, they saw the hands on the forehead. They were like, whoa, something beyond my comprehension is going on here. What did you see then? How did you assess the forehead touch?
So Mia and her mom are doing what then? Is it like a collective – I'm just trying to find a word or articulate what is happening in that room because you're not calling it manipulation. You're not saying that Mia and her mom are kind of hucksters, you know, doing a circus trick to get themselves on a podcast. That's not your characterization of them at all, right? No.
And you're not saying that Kai Dickens, the host or the cameraman are like lying. We're not saying that.
I'm Karla Lally Music, cookbook author and snack enthusiast. Do you have a sweet tooth? Tune in to Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, where I dive into the stories behind America's favorite treats.
I'm Carla Lawley-Music, cookbook author and curable food lover and the host of Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio. Have you ever wondered where the hazelnuts and Nutella come from or how Keebler has stuck around for over a century?
Whether you've got a sweet tooth or curious about flavor science or want to know what's next in the world of R&D, tune in to Sweets Unwrapped wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Karla Lally Music, cookbook author and snack enthusiast. Do you have a sweet tooth? Tune in to Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, where I dive into the stories behind America's favorite treats.
I'm Karla Lally Music, cookbook author and snack enthusiast. Do you have a sweet tooth? Tune in to Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, where I dive into the stories behind America's favorite treats. Hello.
I think when an LLM tells you something that appears to be sentient, it's just mimicking human data.
I'm Karla Lally Music, cookbook author and snack enthusiast. Do you have a sweet tooth? Tune in to Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, where I dive into the stories behind America's favorite treats.
I'm Carla Lally Music, cookbook author and curable food lover and the host of Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio. Have you ever wondered where the hazelnuts and Nutella come from or how Keebler has stuck around for over a century?
Whether you've got a sweet tooth or curious about flavor science or want to know what's next in the world of R&D, tune in to Sweets Unwrapped wherever you get your podcasts.
So the lesson is... Is it just like whatever doesn't kill you make you stronger?
Richtig. Okay, also das ist die Lektion. Dann wie sehen wir diese Lektion in dieser neuen Präsidentschaft aus?
Aber Trump hat auch geschrieben, dass Jeffs neueste Geschichte, Signalgate, als Jeff zu einem Gruppechat über Kriegspläne, Ups, verabschiedet wurde, etwas erfolgreich war. Trump hat das Wort erfolgreich in Quoten geschrieben. In der zweiten Hälfte des Shows werden wir mit Michael und Ashley über ihre Cover-Story im Atlantik sprechen.
Michael, he said something in your phone call with him that relates to that point. I want to play it for us.
What do you make of that? What is he saying?
Trump genießt das, insbesondere über das, wie Michael Trump kalt genannt hat und Trump das Telefon aufgenommen hat. Aber zuerst wollte ich wissen, was geschah, als Jeff, der eine der größten Geschichten dieses Jahr über die Trump-Administration geschrieben hat, Trump kennengelernt hat. Der Kerl, der ihm eine Schlauchmaschine genannt hat.
You know, another big difference from his first term that you did ask him about on that phone call was his mood.
And what difference does that make that he's having fun? Like what does that bring the country, the fact that he's having fun?
Das Basketball-Ding ist nicht genug. Das ist nicht genug. Wir müssen etwas anderes machen. Bleiben sie untertäuscht. Eine andere Sache, über die Ihre Berichte gesprochen wurden, war die Schock-und-Au-Strategie. Können Sie beschreiben, was das ist und wie es im zweiten Termin gespielt hat?
Ja, ich denke, es ist, um uns zu überwinden, aber auch, um die amerikanischen Menschen zu überwinden, richtig? Du erinnerst dich an die erste...
Okay, so that's not really an answer. Did he ever answer this question in your couple of interviews?
Right, but you asked him in both your interviews about the Supreme Court and he said, I haven't always agreed with the decision, but I've never done anything but rely on it. So how do you square these two things that he seems to be defying the Supreme Court? Everybody talks about that as a constitutional crisis, but he says very clearly. I rely on the Supreme Court.
I will not defy the Supreme Court.
So what you're both saying is that we're just still suspended, like we don't know, we don't have the crisis yet. I mean, how many headlines I've read that say the constitutional crisis is here, but you're not saying that.
Ashley, you asked Trump about the 2028 hats that his organization is selling. Yes, you rolled your eyes when I asked you that. What was your takeaway about what he's saying about running for a third term?
What do you think Trump wanted to accomplish by inviting you two and Jeff to the Oval Office? Like, why did he want to sit down with you?
Und was war die Orientierung zu Jeff? Was war die Vibe zwischen ihnen? Was wollte er von Jeff?
Ashley, Michael, thank you both so much for joining us. Thank you. This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Kevin Townsend and Janae West. It was edited by Claudina Bade, engineered by Erika Wong and fact-checked by Sarah Korlewski. Claudina Bade is the executive producer of Atlantic Audio and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor.
If you like what you hear on Radio Atlantic, you can support our work and the work of all Atlantic journalists when you subscribe to The Atlantic at theatlantic.com slash podsub. That's theatlantic.com slash p-o-d-s-u-b. I'm Hannah Rosen. Thank you for listening.
He said you were somewhat successful with Signalgate.
Aber auch das sah ein bisschen schockierend aus. Der Austausch ist interessant. Es ist lustig, darüber zu sprechen. His answer is a good punchline, but I'm wondering how seriously to take the fact that he didn't engage with the idea that there was a serious security breach.
Okay, Jeff. You get invited to the Oval Office.
Which is what? What's the adjective?
Bad. Okay. Did he say anything about Pete Hexeth? Did you get the sense he was in trouble in any way?
Who has referred to you as a total sleazebag and the editor of a failing magazine.
Yeah. Was there anything that he said that will keep you vigilant? Where you left thinking, oh, we have to keep our eye on this one.
How did you expect he would receive you? Like, as you were going over there, what did you think was going to happen?
So, did your impression of him in an overall way change after this meeting? Like in any way? Did you come away thinking differently broadly about Trump than before the meeting?
This is The Atlantic's Editor-in-Chief Jeffrey Goldberg, talking about Donald Trump, of course.
Atlantic-Staffwriters Ashley Parker and Michael Shearer on their new cover story, Trump is Enjoying This.
That's after the break. All right, we're back. And now I'm joined by staff writers Ashley Parker and Michael Scherer. Ashley, Michael, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me.
So let's start with where it starts, which is the phone call.
Ich meine... So the way you land an interview with a sitting president is you just call him on his cell phone and he picks up the phone. I know who you are, Michael.
So you're just sitting in your kitchen talking to the president?
Okay, so you talked to a lot of people besides Trump about his comeback. And I'm most interested in lessons he learned from that comeback and brought to a second term. So, Ashley... You write that while he was in the political wilderness, which is after he lost the 2020 election, one big lesson he learned was the vampire lesson. Can you explain that?
This is Radio Atlantic. I'm Hannah Rosen. Not long before Jeff and Atlantic staff writers Michael Shearer and Ashley Parker met in the Oval Office on Thursday, Trump posted on Truth Social, calling Jeff a person, quote, responsible for many fictional stories about me.
I'm Carla Lally Music, Cookbook-Author and Snack-Enthusiast. Do you have a sweet tooth? Tune in to Sweets Unwrapped, a new podcast from Ferrero and Atlantic Rethink, the Atlantic's creative marketing studio, where I dive into the stories behind America's favorite treats.
Ich bin Carla Lally-Musik, Kochbuchautorin und kürbische Nahrungsgeberin und die Hostin von Sweets Unwrapped, einem neuen Podcast von Ferrero und Atlantic Rethink, der Atlantik-Kreativ-Marketing-Studio. Habt ihr jemals gewusst, woher die Haselnüsse und Nutella kommen? Oder wie Keebler seit über einem Jahrhundert gestanden ist?
Ob ihr einen süßen Teig habt oder interessiert seid über Flavorscience oder wollt wissen, was in der Welt von R&D kommt, schreibt euch zu Sweets Unwrapped, wo auch immer ihr eure Podcasts bekommt.