Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
Fri, 24 Jan 2025
Welcome to a new episode of Next Level Pros! In this episode, we have the opportunity to interview Jeremy Miner, an incredible businessman and sales training expert. Jeremy shares his journey from door-to-door sales to earning multiple seven-figure commissions, highlighting the pivotal role of tonality in his success. He also touches on the challenges of scaling a business, the importance of hiring for strengths, and the potential of a new recruiting and staffing division. Apply to be on the show: https://forms.gle/hwDijQPFyKCEtHNs8 Highlights: "I think most sales people don't really understand the psychology behind how the brain actually makes decisions." "The biggest factor that took me from the jump between door to door to more B to B high level was mastering tonality." "I don't use selling as something that you do to someone. I believe it's something you do for someone." "Everybody has a chip, just most people don't activate it." Timestamps: 00:00 - The Importance of Understanding Sales Psychology 02:36 - Jeremy Miner's Background and Achievements 05:29 - Scaling a Business and Management Structure 07:49 - The Future Vision and Business Expansion 09:41 - The Meaning Behind Seventh Level 11:41 - Sales Opportunities and Skill Levels 14:16 - Mastering Tonality and Sales Techniques 18:19 - Jeremy's Sales Journey and Achievements 23:04 - The Role of Tonality in Sales 35:37 - Personal Motivations and Overcoming Challenges 40:44 - The Power of Activating Personal Chips Want me to teach you how to grow your business? Text me! 509-374-7554 Want access to more of my content? Click the link below for all of our latest updates and events! https://linktr.ee/nextlevelpros Want to be a guest on our show? Apply here! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1YlkVBSluEKMTg4gehyUOHYvBratcxHV5rt3kiWTXNC4/viewform?edit_requested=true Watch my latest Podcast Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/next-level-pros/id1687030281 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1e0cL2vI1JAtQrojSOA7D2?si=95980cd4e55a437a YouTube- https://www.youtube.com/@NextLevelPros
Chapter 1: What are the three important things to master in sales?
What do you see as like the most like three important things that somebody's got to master?
I think most salespeople, they don't really understand the psychology behind how the brain actually makes decisions. Me being in behavioral science and human psychology, like I geeked out on the stuff at university and I studied it like a mofo. With any personality, I'm focused on how do I disarm the prospect where they let their guard down?
How do I disarm them where they start to emotionally open up? And a lot of it is just strictly with your tonality.
So tonality and obviously even the structure of the question, right?
Yeah. I was still learning skills all the time. And the biggest factor that took me from the jump between door to door to more B2B high level was mastering tonality.
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Chapter 2: How did Jeremy Miner achieve his sales success?
Hey guys, in today's episode, we're going to be interviewing Jeremy Miner. Jeremy, as you guys are going to come to find out, is an absolute stud when it comes to sales training. In this episode, we dive into the psychology of sales, what it is to really understand tonality. This is something that isn't being taught by any other sales trainer out there.
You're going to absolutely love this episode. Let's dive in. What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Next Level Pros Podcast. Today, I have the opportunity to be here in beautiful Scottsdale, Arizona with a friend, associate, but more importantly, an incredible businessman, Mr. Jeremy Miner. So a lot of you guys have seen him across different social media channels.
He is most well-known for training in the sales space, which for me is incredible because I absolutely love the sales aspect of any business. That's where I always just had my fingers on the heartbeat of any business.
Jeremy, during his 17 year career, he was recognized in the direct selling industry as the 45th highest earning producer out of more than 108 million salespeople selling anything worldwide. That's pretty phenomenal. Jeremy's earnings as a commission only sales rep were multiple seven figures every year.
That was after alarms.
After alarms, yeah. That wasn't happening in the door-to-door space back in the day, I'll tell you. So he owns a company called Seventh Level. They were ranked as the largest B2C sales training company in the world and the third overall largest sales training company in the world for B2C and B2B combined. by the prestigious Selling Power Magazine. I know you've gotten several different awards.
500, 5,000.
What's the highest ranking on that?
I think the, we didn't turn it in last year, but the year before, I think we were 132nd or something. I know you were like number six. We were 12th on Inc. 12th on the post. I'm like, damn it, I thought I was doing good.
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Chapter 3: What are the challenges of scaling a business?
132, 12th. You know, the funny thing is the year that we got 12th, we would have been fourth the previous year. For the same growth. And we were six for Financial Times. Because Financial Times threw out a few of the guys that were acquired and stuff like that. Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554.
That's 509-374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry. I got you back. Let's go back to the show, baby.
We submitted financials in 2021 and 2022, and we thought it was really cool until one day we literally lost a big B2B deal because they looked at that as like, oh, you guys are going too fast. Oh. And it started thinking like, oh, I thought like us growing so fast, companies would be like, they must be doing something really good.
5000.
We don't care about the fast thing anymore. It's interesting, right? Never thought about it that way.
Interesting. It was a pretty big deal. Yeah. Well, yeah, so guys, I'm excited to have Jeremy on the pod. Welcome to the show. It's, you know, I'm a big fan of your work, love. We actually have a sales guy that works with us that just loves, like he puts you on like the highest pedestal. It's like, God, Jeremy Miner. Oh my God.
All right. We got to figure out what course he's in. That's good for him.
So I know he did your NLPQ. Oh, NLPQ. Yeah. Yeah. A while back. And so he utilizes a lot of your strategies and stuff. Interesting. Good stuff. Yeah. So Jeremy, you've been building this incredible business in the sales space, which I would say, I mean, for the amount of revenue and the amount of employees, like is very impressive. Yeah.
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Chapter 4: What does the future look like for Jeremy's business?
Yeah. Well, you know, I'm just the I'm just the founder. You know, I don't run the business anymore. I wouldn't have I wouldn't say like, you know, just me interviewing you guys on the show. I'm like, OK, these guys have different skills than I would have. Right. So, you know, do I know how to scale a company to, you know, 100 million? or 500 million. No, I've never done that, right?
Do I know how to train salespeople to sell more? Do I know how to recruit top talent? Do I know how to do those things? Yes. So it's like you said, it's about bringing in the right people where you're weak in and hiring them for their strengths, right? Or making them your partner for their strengths and that really causes you to grow.
That's interesting. So what would you say? So obviously you're more centered on the sales side, but from a business standpoint, like what are some of the bottlenecks that you're working on and you're hoping to get you to the next level?
I think, you know, we're, we're at a level where it's like in revenue, you know, and I still compare my, I always compare myself to like Vivint. So I always still feel like a small ant, you know, like, Oh, 160 employees, like just so tiny compared to the space that we came from, you know what I'm saying? So but for our industry, that's big.
The biggest thing that we're working on is as we're scaling, you know, we're bringing in department heads. And sometimes, you know, you'll have some department heads that you fully trust. It's almost like every decision they make is just gold. It's money and it works. Then you have some other department heads where maybe they got into that position and they weren't as qualified.
qualified position and some of the decisions, you know, set you back a little bit. So it's finding that balance between, you know, still being able to run the business and scale and take a little bit of risk compared to being so corporate that, you just don't take any risk and it's more slow growth. So it's finding that balance.
Yeah, for sure. So, you know, obviously you have the department heads in place. Like what is the rest of your management structure look like? Are you, where are you fitting in? Are you off to the side?
I'm the, I'm the, I'm the founder of the majority shareholder. We have a CEO, right? A business partner. We have, We have CFO. Obviously, we have managing director, senior vice president, COO. We have the C-level executives. And then below them, in sum, we have a VP or director of those, like director of fulfillment. Above them would be the vice president of fulfillment. Same thing.
Basically, we have a CRO. Yeah.
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Chapter 5: What is the significance of tonality in sales?
So like, you know, when you first started, you're like, hey, I got all these great ideas. You're the visionary. Let's just go spend, spend, spend. But then you don't realize like, oh, it's not so profitable what I just did.
So what does this business look like in five, 10 years? Like, where do you, where are you trying to land?
So when I started seventh level, I knew we would never be just sales training. On the front end, we'll always be sales training because that's what we're known at. That's where we've gotten so much results. On the back end, though, we have the assets now. So in...
the third quarter of 2025 we are now going to have a division that's a recruiting uh staffing agency awesome uh on the the company side because we we probably you know we have a big facebook group sales revolution about 160 000 people going every day and we probably have i i'm not exaggerating probably close to 100 employers a day
that try to post in there like, hey, looking for 10 reps for medical device, looking for, could be solar, whatever. And so they come to us like literally offering to pay us for like certified reps in our training programs for their industries. And we just don't have an infrastructure to even offer that yet. We have an email list of over a million salespeople.
Yeah, so a done for you agency from a recruiting standpoint is no brainer.
It's not like we had to start doing COVID. Right. And staffing and recruiting, that's a huge industry we already train in. So we already understand that space, like the background. We train tons of companies in that. So it's just kind of a natural fit to have that back-end model, kind of like a Grant Cardone has sales training, but then real estate. My buddy, Pace Morby,
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Chapter 6: How can salespeople understand buyer psychology?
you know, selling, coaching, how to do real estate. But then on the back end, every, every client brings him deals and they split them 50, 50, you know, so it's that back end revenue. So we have, we're just, uh, you know, we've created the assets for that the last five years and now we're bringing the right people to run that.
That's exciting. So seventh level, what's, what's the meaning of seventh level?
You know, it's interesting. Um, I've only had a few people ever asked me that. So, uh, so I went to UVU, Utah University, and my major is behavioral science, human psychology, but I minored, and world religions. And so in every world religion, you know, I'm obviously like you guys, every world religion. So I'm talking about, I'm not talking about religion now.
I'm talking about like ancient Christianity. So maybe from, you know, 30 AD to maybe 350 AD. I'm talking about Islam at the beginning. I'm talking about, you know, even Buddhism. I'm talking Hinduism. I'm talking about even religions in Mesopotamia. They had this one core belief that pretty much it was a universal belief that there were different levels of heaven. Okay.
Not like one heaven and hell, like a lot of religions believe now. And at the highest level, the seventh level, like look it up. It's crazy. God dwelt in the seventh level. And to attain that level, you had to be perfected like God. You had to overcome the world, you know, do those types of things.
And so that's where I came up with the concept, seventh level of communication, perfecting your communication skills.
We're going to have to have a separate conversation about religion off camera because I have some very interesting beliefs that probably differ a little bit from exactly, you know, the way I was raised. I'm an active member of the LDS faith. But yeah, it is interesting when you go and you study these world religions and really able to identify different truths that come from.
Yeah, I think there's every religion has a lot of truth in it for sure. mixed in with some manmade stuff, including our own faith, you know, a little bit of manmade stuff here and there too. So I'm, I'm all about talking about, you know, I believe in some crazy things too, that might be outside the norm, but I think that's good.
And whether they're right or not, I guess we'll find out at the end of the day, you know, we'll all find out.
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Chapter 7: What are the best sales opportunities in today's market?
Would you say that has to do with like, so what I teach is like the four different type of buyers, like the buying personalities, right? You have aggressive and social and different, like, do you think is that playing a lot into it?
I think there's a lot of truth in that. I focus more on like with any personality, I'm focused on how do I disarm the prospect where they left their guard down? And that's with any person, especially with an A-type, right? Because you know, the A-types try to bowl you over. So like, how do I disarm them where they start to emotionally open up? And a lot of it is just strictly with your tonality.
So like I would say, let's say the prospect would be like, yeah, come on in or whatever. And I literally would do this all the time. I'd be like, now, hold on, hold up. Before I come in, like, you're not going to get mad at me if I can't end up helping you, are you? Oh God, we would never get mad at you.
See how I'm triggering them to like pull me in because I'm using like this concern like tone, right? And they're like, oh God, I would never. Or I'd be like, now hold on, you're not going to get angry at me if I don't take off my shoes. Like I don't want to, oh, we would never get angry. So I'm just triggering them to like come to my side and pull me in.
So by the time I get to anything, they're just already bought in. So a lot of it is your tonality.
So tonality and obviously even the structure of the question, right? Yeah. Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 374-7554. That's 374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry. I got you back. Let's go back to the show baby.
And it's not even because we, you know, when we train in EPQ, the, you know, how to ask these questions, we see a lot of new clients where they come in and they're like, I've just got to ask these questions on my script. I've got to memorize these canned lines. I'm like, That's good.
You need a script, but you need to understand how to be flexible with set script because you have to learn, like once you understand, like, okay, I need to ask, let's say we call them connection questions to take the prospect out of price or cost-based thinking, immediately start again to results-based thinking. And I also need to get them to let their guard down.
so what if the prospect tells me something different from my first question do i need to ask this next question there not necessarily because then it sounds almost like i'm script like i didn't really listen to what they just said right so that you have to learn how to take what the prospect says and be able to tweak your next question and tie in what they just said to that question and if you don't understand the psychology behind
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Chapter 8: Why can reading books not master selling?
So we were teaching startups like, and this is a little bit in the conversation. So tell me a little bit about your bill. I know a lot of the year it's pretty low, but what have they been making you pay lately? And so I'm downplaying it. And then I'm saying, what have they been making you, making you, making you pay lately? Like I'm concerned. See that tone, the shift in the tone.
Like tell me about your bill. I know a lot of the year it's pretty low, but what have they been making you pay lately? See, I'm downplaying it so they upplay it in their brain. Right, right. It's beautiful.
Listening to you, I know one of your top students.
Oh, who's that?
Tony Bianco.
Oh yeah, I actually know Tony was one of our first 500 clients. I interviewed him on a podcast a couple of years ago. He's great.
Like I said, he sounds so much like you.
Yeah, he mimics the tonality for sure.
Does a really good job.
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