Lex Fridman Podcast
#470 – James Holland: World War II, Hitler, Churchill, Stalin & Biggest Battles
Sat, 24 May 2025
James Holland is a historian specializing in World War II. He hosts a podcast called WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep470-sc See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. Transcript: https://lexfridman.com/james-holland-transcript CONTACT LEX: Feedback - give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey AMA - submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama Hiring - join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring Other - other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact EPISODE LINKS: James's Books: https://amzn.to/4caapmt James's X: https://x.com/James1940 James's Instagram: https://instagram.com/jamesholland1940 James's Substack: https://james1940.substack.com WW2 Pod (Podcast - Apple): https://apple.co/4l93Dl3 WW2 Pod (Podcast - YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/@wehaveways WW2 Pod (Podcast - Spotify): https://open.spotify.com/show/34VlAepHmeloDD76RX4jtc WW2 Pod (Podcast - X): https://x.com/WeHaveWaysPod SPONSORS: To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: Shopify: Sell stuff online. Go to https://shopify.com/lex LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to https://drinkLMNT.com/lex AG1: All-in-one daily nutrition drink. Go to https://drinkag1.com/lex Notion: Note-taking and team collaboration. Go to https://notion.com/lex OUTLINE: (00:00) - Introduction (00:34) - Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections (07:25) - World War II (17:23) - Lebensraum and Hitler ideology (24:36) - Operation Barbarossa (40:49) - Hitler vs Europe (1:02:35) - Joseph Goebbels (1:12:29) - Hitler before WW2 (1:17:25) - Hitler vs Chamberlain (1:39:31) - Invasion of Poland (1:44:07) - Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact (1:52:09) - Winston Churchill (2:16:09) - Most powerful military in WW2 (2:38:31) - Tanks (2:48:30) - Battle of Stalingrad (3:01:21) - Concentration camps (3:10:53) - Battle of Normandy (3:24:45) - Lessons from WW2 PODCAST LINKS: - Podcast Website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast - Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr - Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 - RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ - Podcast Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 - Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/lexclips
Chapter 1: What makes World War II a unique subject of study?
Chapter 2: How did Hitler's ideology shape the Nazi war machine?
To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description or at lexfriedman.com slash sponsors. And now, dear friends, here's James Holland. In Volume 1 of The War in the West, your book series on World War II, you write, The Second World War witnessed the deaths of more than 60 million people from over 60 different countries. Entire cities were laid waste.
National borders were redrawn, and many millions more people found themselves displaced. Over the past couple of decades, many of those living in the Middle East or parts of Africa, the Balkans, Afghanistan, and even the United States may feel justifiably that these troubled times have already proved the most traumatic in their recent past.
Yet, globally, the Second World War was and remains the single biggest catastrophe of modern history. In terms of human drama, it is unrivaled. No other war has affected so many lives in such a large number of countries. So, what to you makes World War II the biggest catastrophe in human drama in modern history? And maybe from a historian perspective, the most fascinating subject to study?
The thing about World War II is it really is truly global. It's fought in deserts. It's fought in the Arctic. It's fought across oceans. It's fought in the air. It's in jungle. It's in the hills. It is on the beaches. It's also on the Russian steppe, and it's also in Ukraine. So it's... It's that global nature of it.
And I just think, you know, where there's war, there is always incredible human drama. And I think for most people, and certainly the true in my case, you get drawn to the human drama of it. It's that thought that, you know, gosh, if I'd been 20 years old, how would I have dealt with it? You know, would I have been in the army? Would I have been in the Air Force?
Would I have been on a Royal Navy destroyer? How would I have coped with it? And how would I have dealt with that separation? I mean, I've interviewed people who were away for four years. I remember talking to a tank man from Liverpool in England called Sam Bradshaw. And he went away for four years. And when he came home, he'd been twice wounded. He'd been very badly wounded in North Africa.
And then he was shot in the neck in Italy, eventually got home. When he came home, his mother had turned gray. His little baby sister, who had been 13 when he left, was now a young woman. His old school had been destroyed by Luftwaffe bombs. He didn't recognize the place. And do you know what he did? He joined up again. went back out of Europe and was one of the first people in Belsen.
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Chapter 3: What were the implications of Operation Barbarossa?
Chapter 4: How did the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact affect the war?
He also co-hosts a great podcast on World War II called We Have Ways of Making You Talk. And now a quick few second mention of each sponsor. Check them out in the description or at lexfriedman.com slash sponsors is the best way to support this podcast. We got Shopify for selling stuff, Element for electrolytes, AG1 for multivitamins, and Notion for team collaboration. She was wise, my friends.
And now on to the full ad reads. I do them differently than most podcasts do. Usually I barely talk about the sponsors. Instead, just take this moment to talk about the things I'm reading or thinking about. A little Bob Ross, like heart to heart between you and me. Also, unlike most podcasts, I don't do ads in the middle. So they all are bunched up here in one place. You can skip them if you like.
But if you do, please still check out the sponsors. I enjoy their stuff. Maybe you will too. If you want to get in touch with me for whatever reason, go to lexfreeman.com contact. All right, let's go. This episode is brought to you by Shopify, a platform designed for anyone to sell anywhere with a great looking online store.
Did you know that the legendary Silk Road was not actually a single road, but an extensive network of trade routes connecting east and west, spanning over 7,000 miles? In the upcoming episode on Genghis Khan and the Mongol Empire, we touch on this. But of course, Silk Road spans much wider in time than the rise and the fall of the Mongol Empire.
It facilitated trade and cultural exchange for over 1500 years, roughly from 130 BC. It was spices, tea, paper, gunpowder moving west, and gold, silver, glassware, and horses. moving east. But I think the fascinating thing again is the exchange of culture and the exchange of ideas. Anyway, sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash lex, all lowercase.
Go to shopify.com slash lex to take your business to the next level today. This episode is also brought to you by Element, my daily zero sugar and delicious electrolyte mix. Did you know that us humans can lose over two liters of sweat per hour? during intense exercise, especially in hot conditions.
I've gotten to study this particular physiological process across many, many years of my life when I had to cut a lot of weight. Sweat is fascinating, isn't it? But as you sweat, you're losing sodium, potassium, magnesium, and so you have to replenish it. I think about the ultramarathon runners and the events like the Badwater Ultramarathon. I think it's 135 miles through Death Valley.
In my crazier moments, I think about doing an ultramarathon like that. Some of the coolest people I know do ultramarathons. And some of the especially coolest people I know have done the bad water ultramarathon. What is it about the human mind and the human heart that pulls towards a challenge like that? It's absolutely nuts, isn't it?
Anyway, get a sample pack of Element for free without any purchase. Try it at drinkelement.com. This episode is also brought to you by AG1, an all-in-one daily drink that supports better health and peak performance. Peak performance is such a fascinating concept to me because it doesn't only entail the physical, the physiological, it also entails the psychological. Stress. Lowering stress.
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Chapter 5: What role did Winston Churchill play during WWII?
Chapter 6: What are the lessons learned from the Battle of Stalingrad?
Chapter 7: How did the Battle of Normandy change the course of the war?
Chapter 8: What are the key takeaways from World War II?
But if you do, please still check out the sponsors. I enjoy their stuff. Maybe you will too. If you want to get in touch with me for whatever reason, go to lexfreeman.com contact. All right, let's go. This episode is brought to you by Shopify, a platform designed for anyone to sell anywhere with a great looking online store.
Did you know that the legendary Silk Road was not actually a single road, but an extensive network of trade routes connecting east and west, spanning over 7,000 miles? In the upcoming episode on Genghis Khan and the Mongol Empire, we touch on this. But of course, Silk Road spans much wider in time than the rise and the fall of the Mongol Empire.
It facilitated trade and cultural exchange for over 1500 years, roughly from 130 BC. It was spices, tea, paper, gunpowder moving west, and gold, silver, glassware, and horses. moving east. But I think the fascinating thing again is the exchange of culture and the exchange of ideas. Anyway, sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash lex, all lowercase.
Go to shopify.com slash lex to take your business to the next level today. This episode is also brought to you by Element, my daily zero sugar and delicious electrolyte mix. Did you know that us humans can lose over two liters of sweat per hour? during intense exercise, especially in hot conditions.
I've gotten to study this particular physiological process across many, many years of my life when I had to cut a lot of weight. Sweat is fascinating, isn't it? But as you sweat, you're losing sodium, potassium, magnesium, and so you have to replenish it. I think about the ultramarathon runners and the events like the Badwater Ultramarathon. I think it's 135 miles through Death Valley.
In my crazier moments, I think about doing an ultramarathon like that. Some of the coolest people I know do ultramarathons. And some of the especially coolest people I know have done the bad water ultramarathon. What is it about the human mind and the human heart that pulls towards a challenge like that? It's absolutely nuts, isn't it?
Anyway, get a sample pack of Element for free without any purchase. Try it at drinkelement.com. This episode is also brought to you by AG1, an all-in-one daily drink that supports better health and peak performance. Peak performance is such a fascinating concept to me because it doesn't only entail the physical, the physiological, it also entails the psychological. Stress. Lowering stress.
Optimizing the number of hours in a day that you spend in flow. Focus doing something you're passionate about. That's a tricky one. That's hard to articulate explicitly. So we focus on things that are a little bit easier to articulate like sleep and diet and exercise. But I think about Hunter S. Thompson. And sometimes I think the top priority for health
is hearing and accepting the call to adventure. And figuring out the rest of the bullshit along the way. That said, I think sleep is really important. It's one of the puzzles I've been trying to figure out. But at the very least, it's good to do the low-hanging fruit of health. Just do the basic bullshit. I like a good multivitamin. So, that brings me to AG1.
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