Habits and Hustle
Episode 454: Group Fitness Reality Check: Why F45 and Barry's Bootcamp Might Be Sabotaging Your Goals
Fri, 30 May 2025
Is group fitness helping or hurting your body composition goals? In this Fitness Friday episode on the Habits and Hustle podcast, Liron and I dive into the controversial world of group fitness classes like Orange Theory, Barry's Bootcamp, and F45. We discuss why these high-intensity classes can spike your appetite, burn out your adrenals, and leave you injured—plus what's actually working in the group fitness space. We also explore the rise of Hyrox as a better alternative to CrossFit, why Pilates shouldn't be your only workout, and the social benefits that keep people coming back despite the drawbacks. Liron Kayvan founded BFLA in 2019. He’s a NASM Certified Group Fitness Instructor, Personal Trainer, and Transformative Life Coach. Liron has competed in Amateur MMA, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Rugby and has been a Fitness Coach for over 10 years. What we discuss: The rise and reality of group fitness popularity Why Barry's Bootcamp can spike cortisol and appetite The "aimless running around" problem in most classes Hyrox vs. CrossFit: A safer group fitness alternative Why Pilates alone won't change your body composition The social benefits that make group fitness worthwhile When group fitness works vs. when it backfires The importance of having specific fitness goals Why "something is better than nothing" still applies How to choose group fitness that actually serves your goals Thank you to our sponsor: Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers. Bio.me: Link to daily prebiotic fiber here, code Jennifer20 for 20% off. David: Buy 4, get the 5th free at davidprotein.com/habitsandhustle. Find more about Liron Kayvan: Website: https://www.beyondfitnessla.com/ Instagram: @beyondfitnessla Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements
Chapter 1: What is the controversy around group fitness?
The reason why I want to bring it up also is because I remember back when, not even that long ago, that was like the thing to do, right? Everybody wanted to do Barry's Bootcamp. If you went to Barry's Bootcamp, it was like the hardest workout in the world. You feel like you're sweating. It's like super difficult. You feel like you've done so much.
But I actually, and you're going to hate me because Leroy actually owns a group fitness gym, which is kind of ironic.
We do a lot of things, but group fitness is a big part of it.
Yeah, you do a lot of things, but group fitness is a big part of what you do. I want to know, and the first question I have, have you seen an incline or a decline in popularity with group fitness?
i think an incline and i think it will continue really yeah i mean i think it's great for the social aspect the community aspect aspect but now this may be controversial but i'm not necessarily sure that if you really want to like change your body composition and get next level fit it's the greatest like mode of exercise and i'll tell you why
I think because it's a lot of like running around aimlessly and you're not really doing heavy weight. You're kind of doing this, you know, you're kind of just like a lot of times it goes so fast. You're just trying to keep up. And it's a lot of cardio at the end of the day, even when, because the whole goal is to like make, to kill somebody basically, right?
And what I've had a lot of happen to me was I had a lot of injuries and my appetite went through the roof after that class. So I ended up eating double or triple the amount that I would have otherwise had if I just kind of did more of a moderate workout or just did strength training and a walk. Go ahead.
So I agree with both of the things you said. One, that group fitness is good for the social aspect. And two, that a lot of group fitness is kind of aimlessly running around like a blue ass fly, as we say in London.
What did you say?
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Chapter 2: How can Barry's Bootcamp affect your appetite?
Chapter 3: Is group fitness effective for body composition?
true okay so i should have had that i should have made that caveat right the idea of group fitness as a whole for the social aspect right great big picture big picture and by the way now you know like people are now doing that like they're kind of doing these like more uh fitness running clubs instead of going to meet at a bar people are doing dates by doing you had a coffee and chill
Coffee and chill, right?
And just in terms of like all those things. I think for that aspect, it's amazing. But I'm talking about if you are somebody who has a particular fitness goal that you want to achieve, I don't think it's the best mode to get there. But if you're somebody who doesn't do anything and now you're doing something, you're like now you're being active, it's amazing. Two different things though altogether.
yeah for sure i mean there's definitely downsides um to group fitness because a lot of times you're losing quality for quantity so unless you have a very skilled instructor or you're tailoring the workout very with great expertise you get something very general so you get like I don't actually know about Barry's in Orange Theory. I don't know much, to be honest. You don't?
No, I'm not that interested in it, to be honest. I basically have the same feeling you have. Not to hate on him. It works for a lot of people and a lot of people love it, especially Barry's. I know people who love Barry's. So it works for them, but I don't know specifically what they do. I'll tell you what they do.
Let me tell you what Barry's Bootcamp does.
they make you run at an ungodly pace that is almost impossible and then they say now just put an incline at 15 and so now you're running so fast where like the fact like if you're not going to sprain an ankle or like bust your knee in the process you are very lucky and then they go back and forth between doing a lower body strength training and then going back on the treadmill
or upper body strength training, or they have the core days. But what I find is that it burns your adrenal glands, number one. You can't be doing that every single day. And like I said, you're dead at the end. And you feel good because I personally, I love that feeling. But like I said, it was counterproductive because... I was so hungry.
I was starving after doing those classes that I would eat anything and everything in sight, which then, like I said, it's counterproductive.
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Chapter 4: What are the downsides of high-intensity group classes?
Chapter 5: Why is Hyrox considered a better alternative to CrossFit?
Chapter 6: What are the social benefits of group fitness?
But then like I had to like back off a little bit from that. But anyway, that's what that's what it is.
P.E. class, I call it. Do you have P.E. class here? Is that what you call it? Yeah, you mean like phys ed? Phys ed, yeah.
Yeah, of course. But you're not doing Barry's Bootcamp in like your shot in a phys ed class.
But this is what I'm saying is like it's kind of untargeted. There's a little bit of a sadist kind of vibe to a lot of these group fitness. Again, don't know the specifics on that. Okay, that's true. It's like just punish yourself and then the coach, like people get off on it. It's this weird S&M thing, you know, where the coach is like, can I swear?
Yes, you can sweat. Yes.
You know, like, whatever. I'm not going to now, but like you, whatever it is, basically the vibe, whether they say it with their words or not, is that you're like some lowly, you know.
You're not good enough.
You're not good enough. And then people get off on it. Like I've seen it. There's a, there's a, there's a, I know a lot of people go to a specific gym who really that's the core foundational culture. Really? This S&M thing where the guy. Where is it? I'm not going to name names. Tell me. I'm not going to name names. Is it in LA?
No, I don't know.
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Chapter 7: How to choose the right group fitness class for your goals?
So like they gamify this whole thing, but it's doing things that, but that's why I, I prefer this type of hot, like high rocks versus like a CrossFit because it's things that I think more of the general population can do. If you, if you train for it, like if you train well, then you can, Get better at pushing a sled. If you train well, you can do burpees.
If you train, you know, you can run a mile, right? CrossFit, I found had more dangerous moves like power lifts.
Olympic lifting.
Yeah, like Olympic lifting and like things that like the average Joe will actually really hurt themselves.
Especially in a class of 10, 20 people in a state of fatigue too. So that was the biggest thing is you need to be really dialed in for something like that. And because it's a group fitness atmosphere, this is the downside of it. People would be tired. There'd be 20 people in a class. The coach doesn't know who's doing what. And it's a recipe for disaster.
So it sounds like High Rocks has kind of fixed that issue.
Yeah, like the High Rocks has been really good. So this is what it really incorporates, running, functional training, and basically the race format, right? Like who can finish first. And like I said, that is building a real community for people. And it's like the hot thing to do. And so I'm actually going to be doing one.
I'm not sure where, because they do it in different cities and it's a whole thing. But to me, and because you're not doing that all the time, what I love about it, it's also a goal that you can work towards, right? So like if you want to get stronger, if you want to improve your endurance, right? Then, you know, here's a great goal.
Now train for it versus going to a lot of these other group classes that really there's no real goal. It's just like, yes, it's a great community and make someone work out. But it's just like, can you kill yourself today? Can you push yourself? Great. You did it. OK, now go home like that to me.
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Chapter 8: What should you consider before joining a group fitness class?
And I think with women, especially as we get older, especially in our 40s with all the hormone issues we have, I don't think it's great as a, I don't really love that, like the orange theories. My friend's going to kill me because he owns a bunch of them. But let's just say F45s are all those things.
I don't think it's the greatest use of time if you're trying to really kind of build muscle, get stronger and get fitter.
you never want to trade your long-term health for like a short-term aesthetic like you don't want to it's not a good in you know trade like yeah you get skinnier or whatever in the short term but then you've lost all your muscle or you just like really burn out or you haven't your metabolism is down on the floor long term it's gonna come back and it's gonna come back with a vengeance so i think people need to
maintain their like long-term vision of what they want for their body and don't sacrifice the short term for the long term.
Right. And I will also just say, besides like have a goal in place, again, if you are not doing something, this is a great aspect of community building. If it motivates you to work out, I think it's great. If you have a specific fitness goal in mind, you may want to do something in addition to it. But that's basically all.
So again, you guys should try something like that where you have a goal and you can sign up with a bunch of friends, which I think is a great other social element. And yeah, if you're in LA, you should also go check out Lerone's classes. You do boxing classes, right?
we do hybrid so we do boxing we do a little bit of like our twist on pilates we do a bunch of weightlifting but the flagship like the the main thing that everyone loves is the combination of weightlifting and boxing so you're getting two very different systems you're getting muscle building you're getting fat burning you're getting you know power and you're getting metabolic conditioning so you're really training to be very well-rounded
Right, that's good. That's good. One other thing I wanted to bring up was Pilates. Pilates is the number one workout.
That's why we have our twist on it.
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