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Global News Podcast

The Happy Pod: From security guard to sculptor at the Met Museum

Sat, 01 Feb 2025

Description

We meet security guard Armia Khalil, whose kindness to a visitor led to his sculpture being exhibited at New York's Met Museum. Also: new hope for Parkinson's; beer that's good for you; and Bhutan welcomes Ed Sheeran.

Audio
Transcription

0.089 - 3.296 Akbar Hussain

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6.42 - 23.666 Advertisement voice

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39.974 - 46.539 Narrator

Delve into a world of secrets. The BBC's Global Investigations podcast, breaking major news stories around the world.

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46.859 - 52.883 BBC Investigation Reporter

A BBC investigation finds that Mohammed Al-Fayed, former owner of Harrods, was accused of raping five members of staff.

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53.023 - 55.505 Unknown

Mohammed Al-Fayed was like an apex predator.

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55.831 - 68.135 BBC Investigation Reporter

From the top of British society to the heart of global fashion brands. The former boss of clothing brand Abercrombie & Fitch is accused of exploiting young men for sex. Search for World of Secrets wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

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79.414 - 87.06 Oliver Conway

Hello, I'm Oliver Conway, and in this edition, from guarding art to exhibiting his own at a world-famous museum.

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87.48 - 96.511 Amir Khalil

I never dreamed that one day I would be standing in the middle as an artist. In a major exhibit, it's surreal, it's magical.

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96.972 - 102.178 Oliver Conway

We meet the security guard whose kindness to a visitor led to his own work going on display.

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102.898 - 110.807 Kevin Hill

Also... It was just instant, absolutely amazing. I was in disbelief. Now I've got the confidence to go out and meet people again.

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111.327 - 128.663 Oliver Conway

A new treatment that can improve the lives of people with Parkinson's. The potential health benefits of non-alcoholic beer? The longest story ever told. And why a tiny kingdom known for keeping global influences out has welcomed one of the world's biggest stars.

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129.243 - 136.145 Bhutan Correspondent

The Bhutanese are very in tune with pop culture, be it Western pop. I don't think he'll be corrupting.

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140.011 - 160.882 Oliver Conway

But we start with the remarkable story of a man who's gone from guarding works of art to having his own sculpture on display at one of the world's most famous museums. Amir Khalil graduated from art school in his home country of Egypt, but after moving to the US in 2006, he ended up working as a security guard at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.

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161.542 - 174.545 Oliver Conway

In his free time, he kept up his passion for sculpting, and one day a chance encounter led to an opportunity he'd always dreamed of. Amir told Holly Gibbs how the Met Museum had inspired him almost since he arrived in New York.

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174.965 - 198.957 Amir Khalil

Once I moved, of course the reality was different. It's not like a movie. I mean, struggling to live and find a place to sleep, and it was really kind of struggling into... make some art or back to my tools. Of course, it's not easy. And I got sick a little bit because of the wizard. So the Met was the very first museum and almost like first place ever to visit in New York.

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199.538 - 206.583 Holly Gibbs

How does that feel now that you have your own sculpture on display there? That must be really surreal.

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207.063 - 233.296 Amir Khalil

It is really surreal for me and it's overwhelming now. And I'm really grateful, of course, but it's really surreal still, by the way, even though I talk about it and I... trying to understand it because I never planned this. Even though in my dreams, I never dreamed I would like one day I would be standing in the mid as an artist in a major exhibit. It's surreal. It's magical. It's so divine.

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233.556 - 242.22 Holly Gibbs

And you worked there as a security guard surrounded by the art that you loved and the art that you knew you could make. How was that? Was that frustrating?

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242.665 - 264.565 Amir Khalil

Oh yeah, of course, I've been working now for, this is almost my 13th now, I'm going to my 13th year, surrounding all kinds of arts and history from all over the world. I mean, for everybody here at the Met, it's the museum, our museum, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, has an amazing collection of all kinds of arts and history from all over the world.

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265.154 - 281.143 Amir Khalil

So it's really an amazing place and I like walking every day in the galleries, looking to the art around me. Of course, it's really inspiring and it's really amazing feelings to be surrounded by all this art and artists and their spirits around. It's really an amazing experience.

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281.323 - 288.187 Holly Gibbs

And it was a chance encounter that led to you having your artwork on display in the Met. Talk us through that. How did that happen?

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288.207 - 292.17 Amir Khalil

It was almost, I would say, early August 2023 and it was just...

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295.017 - 324.883 Amir Khalil

like very normal day for me as a security officer and i was like trying to help one of the visitors at this point he seemed for me like he's a normal visitor coming around and he can tell from his face that he's looking for something so i approached him trying to help and his answer yes i'm looking for a painting the name of this painting was flight into egypt of course my i knew it and i knew it and i told him yeah let me walk you it's in my galleries and just in a few seconds we were

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325.387 - 352.883 Amir Khalil

talking I was really curious to know why he's looking for this painting and I told him that of course told him I'm Egyptian too and I'm an artist and he got his badge the museum's badge and showed to me and he said my name is Achille Tomasino I'm the creator of modern contemporary art here at the Met and the conversation now is like totally different he told me about his plan he's planning for a major exhibit under the same name of this painting that we are standing in front of which is Flight into Egypt and that was the start.

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353.263 - 355.786 Holly Gibbs

And tell us about your sculpture that's now on display there.

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356.266 - 372.582 Amir Khalil

The sculpture, of course, is inspired by the Egyptian art and it was carved out of one piece of wood, ash wood. And I made it especially for this show after our talk and after I was inspired by his invitation and his generosity, actually.

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372.884 - 386.83 Holly Gibbs

I wonder if you could cast your mind back to the day that you were walking around the Met as one of the first places that you visited after you'd moved. What would you tell yourself now if you could go back and tell yourself that your art would be on display?

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386.85 - 406.395 Amir Khalil

Oh, my God. I still, by the way, I still remember that feeling and still see myself walking in the galleries as a visitor. It's kind of a surreal question for myself because now I work at the Met as a security officer and I know the galleries, I know the places I visited. In 2006, almost I could see myself walking.

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407.256 - 429.555 Amir Khalil

I was really kind of flying and happy, kind of virtually hugging the arts and the Egyptian, of course. Yeah, I would say I'm still happy. That was really kind of an inspiring visit. really an amazing experience. And I still have it. It's still as it happened to me like 10 seconds ago.

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429.775 - 430.416 Holly Gibbs

You made it.

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430.576 - 438.167 Amir Khalil

Yes, ma'am. And I'm grateful. I'm really grateful. It's been really amazing. I mean, the museum for me, it's more than home.

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438.826 - 459.401 Oliver Conway

Amir Khalil talking to Holly Gibbs. Now to a high-tech treatment that could significantly improve the lives of people with Parkinson's disease. As you may have heard on the Global News podcast a few days ago, it involves an implant in the brain that can control tremors using tiny pulses of electricity – deep brain stimulation, as it's known –

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459.921 - 479.247 Oliver Conway

Unlike older versions that had to be reprogrammed in hospital, this new one can read a patient's brain signals and help manage their symptoms straight away, all controlled by a tiny computer in their chest. Julian Warwicker has been speaking to Akbar Hussain, one of the first doctors in the world, to offer this new treatment, and to his patient, Kevin Hill.

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479.767 - 493.584 Kevin Hill

Parkinson's affects different people in different ways and with me it was a tremor and it was getting worse by the week and I was finding that I wasn't going out and socialising, I was hiding myself, I was getting withdrawn, it was affecting my mental health.

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493.744 - 502.89 Julian Marshall

Because you'd been diagnosed, what, five years prior to that I think, hadn't you? Yeah, that's true, yeah. You'd got that gradual deterioration in your overall state of health over that.

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502.95 - 506.631 Kevin Hill

Yeah, and I would say things were just getting worse and worse as I progressed.

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507.171 - 511.832 Julian Marshall

So when this option of the implant was put in front of you, what did you think?

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512.253 - 534.896 Kevin Hill

I was in two minds whether to go for it or not because it seemed to be a big operation to go through and it wasn't a promise of success. And when it was turned on, what happened? I've been shaking for years. My wife was there and they went on a computer and it was just instant. Absolutely amazing. I was in disbelief. So I just stopped shaking.

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535.137 - 537.72 Julian Marshall

And it's continued like that ever since, has it?

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538.281 - 542.086 Kevin Hill

I've had my good days and bad days, but I have more good days than I do bad days.

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542.515 - 562.923 Akbar Hussain

Akbar, tell us a bit about this device, how it's fitted, how it works. So it's in two parts, really. The main part is the battery itself, which contains the computer chip as well. It's developed from cardiac pacemaker technology, but instead of hooking it up to wires that go to the heart... I hook it up to wires that I've implanted into the middle of the brain.

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563.424 - 584.181 Akbar Hussain

Once it's in the right place, you can then send little pulses of energy to these deep brain structures. And the wiring or the electrical activity that is not quite working well in these different disease processes, such as Parkinson's disease or dystonia or essential tremor, We can fine-tune the stimulus so we can get rid of some of the symptoms that the patient's suffering from.

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584.602 - 592.61 Akbar Hussain

It's effective and helps about 80% of people who have the deep brain stimulation device. But there is a group of people that it might not help as well as it's helped Kevin.

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593.23 - 598.736 Julian Marshall

Kevin, on that quality of life point, what are you able to do now that you couldn't do before?

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599.122 - 612.739 Kevin Hill

Now I've got the confidence to go out and meet people again so I can go to the pub. I don't mind going out. I used to like to go out and ride on my bike. That's one thing I couldn't do because I was in aches and pains. I like the game of snooker and now I can play snooker again.

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614.341 - 622.989 Julian Marshall

What are the potential risks, downsides that might be present here? I mean, this is complicated. It's invasive surgery.

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623.229 - 635.201 Akbar Hussain

There must be risks. There's no such thing as brain surgery without any risks, unfortunately. But out of all the different types of brain surgery that we do... this is probably the safest one we do because it's very minimally intrusive.

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635.601 - 651.338 Julian Marshall

And once it's making a difference, I mean, once somebody is significantly better as a result of having this fitted, as Kevin clearly is, I mean, is there any reason why that situation cannot continue? I mean, can you put a timescale on for how long something like this can be realistically effective?

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651.698 - 668.876 Akbar Hussain

The deep brain stimulation doesn't modify the disease process. You still have Parkinson's disease. The symptoms will progress over time. Now, how long it takes to progress is individual. It's different for different people. I don't think that we'll have to worry about the longevity being just a couple of years. I think it is, we're talking about decades.

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669.056 - 673.7 Kevin Hill

It's excellent news to think we'll get 20 years out of this. It's amazing, absolutely amazing.

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674.417 - 699.299 Oliver Conway

Parkinson's patient Kevin Hill, who's playing snooker and riding his bike again thanks to Akbar Hussain, neurosurgeon at Newcastle Hospitals here in the UK. Next to Morocco, where storytellers from 33 countries have broken a world record by recounting their tales continuously for more than three days. Their recital in the main square in Marrakesh lasted 80 hours and 34 minutes.

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699.799 - 708.747 Oliver Conway

The event was part of the Marrakesh International Storytelling Festival, which also included workshops in local schools. Our very own storyteller Richard Hamilton was there. MUSIC

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709.372 - 730.567 Richard Hamilton

This is the Jamar al-Fanar, the famous square right at the heart of the ancient Medina of Marrakesh. And it was here, a thousand years ago, that storytellers began telling tales in the square. They'd stand in a circle of onlookers and tell ancient tales. And this carried on for hundreds of years until...

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731.548 - 757.858 Richard Hamilton

In the 1970s, as Moroccans got televisions, radios, then later the internet, social media, the young generation forgot about storytelling and it began to die out. But now, the Marrakesh International Storytelling Festival is trying to revive an interest in storytelling. As part of that, they're trying to break the record for the longest continuous storytelling session.

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758.838 - 785.798 Bird's Nest Spoke

Bird's Nest Spoke. Governor, I can only give you one advice. Be good. Just do good. And Bird's Nest said, Governor, a five-year-old can understand this, but a 78-year-old still finds it difficult to understand what I've just said.

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787.158 - 806.739 Unknown

Grab them by the knee. Grab them by the ankle. or you can hold on like a handle. Do not do what Wee Tom did. Wee Tom was grabbed by the shoe with no lace in it, and he went out of the window and up into the air. Hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi.

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808.041 - 838.699 Unknown

He suddenly saw that in front of him in the place where the dove should have fallen, there was a wall, a stone wall made of fine old bricks. He has never seen a wall in this forest. It was something new, as if the wall appeared by magic. And then he discovered a door. And it was a fine carved door made of sandalwood. And the door was not closed. It was open.

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839.939 - 860.303 Brahim Daldali

My name is Brahim Daldali. I am a storyteller from Safrou. A storytelling festival in Marrakesh has opened a big door for me to meet authors, to meet also academic people. So it's a huge opportunity for me. So many young people, they are...

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860.883 - 872.893 Brahim Daldali

working they are learning how to be how to become as as a professional storyteller we teach young storytellers to be professional so storytelling family starts growing

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876.531 - 899.241 John Morgan

I'm John Rowe, Artistic Director of the Marrakesh International Storytelling Festival. How important is the festival in terms of reviving the tradition? I prefer to call it a resuscitation because it never quite died, but it was in need of a little help. We're just one part of a process, I think, a very important part.

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899.501 - 920.044 John Morgan

Bringing it back to the square, making it a spectacle again, because that was part of the problem. It was no longer a spectacle in the square. So are you reclaiming the space? Because this was always traditionally a cultural sacred space for storytelling. Are you reclaiming it? Well, that is exactly what I stand up to say.

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920.104 - 935.43 John Morgan

Ladies and gentlemen, assembled company, we are reclaiming the square for storytelling. The square was, for 1,000 years, had storytelling, and it was one of the most important parts of the square, apart from the 6,000 camels.

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940.993 - 944.214 Oliver Conway

John Rowe, ending that report from Morocco by Richard Hamilton.

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949.476 - 962.341 Unknown

And still to come on The Happy Pod... Often got a fantastic view, you're getting lungfuls of oxygen and then as you come out, body's steaming and you're embracing all the elements. Almost the worse the weather, the better it is.

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963.001 - 967.883 Oliver Conway

Why a traditional Nordic relaxation method is becoming increasingly popular...

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975.117 - 996.167 Carl

ready for a new year health and fitness breakthrough that will blow your friggin mind i'm carl co-founder of body that's body with an eye and this is the body bogo sale right now if you sign up for a one-year subscription to body i'll pay for your entire second year that's seventy eight percent off our monthly price and our best deal ever

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997.367 - 1022.801 Carl

It's not easy to get fit and lose weight, especially if you want healthy results. At Body, we make it simple to reverse years of unhealthy habits. We have over 130 structured programs like 4 Beginners Only, 21 Day Fix, P90X, and Insanity. Our app also has complete eating plans and thousands of healthy, delicious recipes. Let's take the guesswork out of getting you fast results.

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1023.162 - 1034.394 Carl

The next 500 people who sign up for a year of Body get a full second year free. It's time to love your body. Just go to body.com. That's B-O-D-I dot com.

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1035.29 - 1041.833 Narrator

Delve into a world of secrets. The BBC's Global Investigations podcast, breaking major news stories around the world.

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1042.153 - 1048.196 BBC Investigation Reporter

A BBC investigation finds that Mohamed Al-Fayed, former owner of Harrods, was accused of raping five members of staff.

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1048.356 - 1050.877 Unknown

Mohamed Al-Fayed was like an apex predator.

0
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1051.137 - 1063.443 BBC Investigation Reporter

From the top of British society to the heart of global fashion brands. The former boss of clothing brand Abercrombie & Fitch is accused of exploiting young men for sex. Search for World of Secrets wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

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1068.271 - 1082.537 Oliver Conway

Millions of people around the world have just finished Dry January, giving up alcohol for a month as a New Year resolution. For those who switch to alcohol-free beer, there could be added health benefits compared to having soft drinks and even water.

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1083.257 - 1095.902 Oliver Conway

In addition, firms have been working on improving the taste, with alcohol-free beer the fastest-growing sector of what was known as the alcoholic drinks industry. Marnie Chesterton went to the Belgian town of Leuven to find out more.

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1096.542 - 1112.326 David de Schutter

This is an experimental brewery that actually can create whatever type of beer we want to make. My name is David de Schutter and I'm heading research and development globally for ABM. We're always pursuing a better beer, especially for no-alcohol beer.

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1112.666 - 1117.208 Kevin Verstreppen

David and his team use a newer innovation called vacuum distillation.

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1117.848 - 1121.969 David de Schutter

The boiling point of the alcohol reduces. Then you don't harm the beer.

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1123.089 - 1123.43 Unknown

Prost.

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1123.87 - 1138.23 David de Schutter

Prost. So it has been through the vacuum distillation, and then we applied our aroma technology to bring back the beer flavor to life. You need to add the gas as well, back, so you need to recarbonate the beer.

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1138.561 - 1154.245 Kevin Verstreppen

But there is another way to make non-alcoholic beer, and that's to not brew the alcohol in the first place. We're in the lab of Kevin Verstreppen, world expert on yeast, at the University of Leuven and the Flanders Institute for Biotechnology.

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1154.628 - 1158.27 Unknown

And so in total, we have something like 20,000, 25,000 different yeasts.

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1158.83 - 1168.655 Kevin Verstreppen

Kevin's lab studies yeast for multiple purposes, one of them being to make better yeasts for the beer industry. And so how do you make a non-alcoholic beer?

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1169.035 - 1192.736 Unknown

For that, you use a different yeast, one that doesn't produce alcohol, but has a metabolism similar to humans. We also eat sugar, but we don't make alcohol. We make water and carbon dioxide. Once you take the alcohol out, you end up with quite a nutritious drink. Alcohol itself also contains quite a few calories. Alcohol-free beer has some antioxidants, some vitamins, some lipids.

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1193.216 - 1195.659 Kevin Verstreppen

And is there anything specific coming from the yeast?

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1196.32 - 1215.442 Unknown

What the yeast will do is it will take the refined sugars and eat those. So it takes those bad sugars away for us. It's for sure more healthy than a sugar-containing soda. It's a pretty good sports drink. I know that even the German Olympic team or the soccer team, I think at some point, was allowed to drink alcohol-free beers.

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1215.962 - 1239.507 Kevin Verstreppen

We checked. It was the Olympic team. And actually, it was thanks to the doctor for the German Olympic ski team who conducted a study on marathon runners, finding that non-alcoholic beer reduced inflammation and respiratory infections. Now, why would that be? Well, there seems to be one more thing that non-alcoholic beer can offer us.

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1240.057 - 1247.906 Claudia Marques

I'm Claudia, I'm a nutritionist and I'm a professor of nutrition and metabolism at Nova Medical School in Lisbon, Portugal.

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1248.146 - 1252.951 Kevin Verstreppen

Claudia Marques studies the effects of food and drink on our gut microbiomes.

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1253.191 - 1273.744 Claudia Marques

So one group drink alcoholic beer and the other one drink non-alcoholic beer. It was one bottle of beer per day. And after four weeks, this consumption increased the diversity of microorganisms that we have in our gut. A good diversity is usually associated to health.

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1274.204 - 1278.646 Kevin Verstreppen

So what's in beer that's helping diversify our gut microbiomes?

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1278.886 - 1296.35 Claudia Marques

Polyphenols can be responsible for these effects. Polyphenols are chemicals that we found in plants. We feed the good bacteria instead of feeding the bad bacteria. They can also have other properties such as anti-inflammatory effects.

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1296.874 - 1319.272 Kevin Verstreppen

We probably need more research looking into these polyphenols to really understand the health benefits of non-alcoholic beer. Claudia's study is just the beginning. Modern non-alcoholic versions are a better brew, taste-wise. They also have fewer calories than beer and offer the chance to socialise in a drinking culture without drinking pints of fruit juice or sodas.

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1319.873 - 1326.158 Kevin Verstreppen

They might even have the edge over water, thanks to the polyphenols that feed your gut microbiome.

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1326.698 - 1344.327 Oliver Conway

Marnie Chesterton, and you can hear more about non-alcoholic beer on CrowdScience, wherever you get your podcasts. The Himalayan state of Bhutan generally avoids Western cultural influences, like fast food restaurants or coffee shop chains. It's trying to protect its traditions and values.

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1344.647 - 1355.573 Oliver Conway

But now Ed Sheeran has become the first major Western artist to perform there, taking to the stage in a football stadium in the capital, Thimphu, following local support act rebellions.

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1362.062 - 1364.131 Unknown

We keep talking, talking shit.

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1370.799 - 1376.821 Oliver Conway

Well, John Harrison, editor of the Daily Bhutan newspaper, spoke to my colleague Rebecca Kesby.

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1377.081 - 1397.226 Bhutan Correspondent

The hotel is just full of excitement about this concert. In fact, there was no one really paying attention to work. I couldn't get any emails done today. So for four hours prior to the concert, people are already on the ground. We might just have the biggest crowd ever in Thimphu, Chimilangthang Stadium.

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1397.566 - 1404.971 Unknown

Bhutan generally avoids everything Western and Western culture, doesn't it? So why Ed Sheeran?

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1405.351 - 1430.043 Bhutan Correspondent

I don't think Bhutan avoids Western culture. Although TV and internet arrived in 1999, which is probably the latest in all the countries. But the Bhutanese are very in tune with pop culture, be it Western pop. So, yes, Bhutan has their own local pop culture, Bhutanese songs, but they do listen to music from all over the world.

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1430.063 - 1438.087 Unknown

But in terms of actually having an artist visit, I mean, was the thought that Ed Sheeran wouldn't be a corrupting influence on the culture?

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1438.847 - 1446.429 Bhutan Correspondent

I don't think he'll be corrupting. I think music is in every Bhutanese sing and dance. That's part of their culture.

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1446.669 - 1459.953 Unknown

Tell us a bit more about the strategy of why it's being held now, though, because we understand the king has got ambitions to build a new city, a mindfulness city, which would be more open for tourists.

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1460.413 - 1482.116 Bhutan Correspondent

The king has identified a piece of land about four times the size of Singapore to build the Gullifull Mindfulness City that is infused with spirituality and mindfulness to attract light-minded businesses and entrepreneurs and citizens to come and work from this city.

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1482.376 - 1496.808 Unknown

Bhutanese people are often considered to be the happiest on earth, aren't they? Something about the culture and the way of life. What do you think the rest of us could learn in terms of the approach to life that might make us all a bit happier?

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1497.208 - 1521.694 Bhutan Correspondent

Bhutanese belief is very much rooted in spirituality. The medium that they use to reach spirituality is Buddhism. Bhutanese are naturally very spiritual. It's got to do with the land, that they respect every part of the land, be it the water, be it the trees, be it the rocks. This entire environment in Bhutan is respected by the people.

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1522.374 - 1548.979 Oliver Conway

John Harrison, editor of the Daily Bhutan newspaper. Now, for many, this is the sound of pure relaxation. Water hitting the hot stones of a traditional sauna. In Nordic countries, outdoor saunas, often complete with ice-cold plunge pools, are seen as essential to physical and emotional well-being and date back thousands of years.

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1549.279 - 1563.767 Oliver Conway

But amid the stresses of 21st century life, they've grown in popularity elsewhere in the world. Here in the UK, the number has more than trebled in the past couple of years. Liz Watson, who runs a sauna on a beach in southern England, interviewed some of her regulars for the BBC.

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1564.155 - 1583.788 Unknown

It's a little bit of an escape out of my week and it's nice to have something just down the road that feels like you're completely sort of back into the nature. You know, being out here at any time of day, you've got the fire, you've got the saunas, you've got the hot, the cold and it just makes you feel alive. Almost like a moment of like, I think it's like mindfulness.

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1585.629 - 1591.23 Unknown

Just to, yeah, I think just switch off, especially in the silent one. Yeah.

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1591.25 - 1609.013 Unknown

Just getting into a nice bath. I've been coming now for about a year and I'm sort of making it sort of a weekly thing and it just totally sorts my head out. I mean, I've got a very stressful job and it's just time to come and sort of just reflect.

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1609.873 - 1612.354 Oliver Conway

Liz also spoke to my colleague, Johnny Diamond.

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1612.981 - 1637.736 Unknown

but nicely sort of tucked away. And as you arrive, there's a little sort of wooden fence in a circle. And then you see a sort of corral of saunas and horse trailers that are converted into saunas, some that have been built from scratch and little changing rooms and a fire pit in the middle and three sort of plunge pool areas. So, yeah, it's interesting. It's beautiful.

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1637.756 - 1639.297 Unknown

There's a whole community you've got there.

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1639.377 - 1640.478 Unknown

Yeah, it really is.

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1640.978 - 1652.046 Unknown

What is it about outdoor saunas? I suspect a fair few listeners may know of the slightly smelly sauna that's at the back of the changing room in the squash courts or something like that. Outdoor saunas are rather different though, aren't they?

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1652.587 - 1672.297 Unknown

As you said, the gym sauna is often filled with chlorine gas and you can't put water on the rocks. The spa sauna is often the same. It's next to the pool and it's like a little dry box. You're sitting in there saying, what am I meant to be doing now? You go to an outdoor sauna, often got a fantastic view. You're getting lungfuls of oxygen.

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1672.497 - 1683.902 Unknown

And then as you come out, your body steaming and you're embracing all the elements. It doesn't matter whether it's raining, snowing, windy or almost the worst, the weather, the better it is.

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1684.67 - 1690.545 Unknown

The critical question, I'm sure, for a fair few listeners will be, do you need to be naked in the sauna?

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1691.472 - 1720.664 Unknown

It depends if you're German or not, really. But we're not. Well, I had a naked event hosted by a German. For Germans, it's disgusting to be in a sauna with a costume on because you're not allowing your body to sweat enough. We're just a little bit more prudish here still, and we're perfectly comfortable with you coming in with everything covered up, unless it's a designated event. But, yeah.

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1721.144 - 1730.536 Unknown

OK, Liz Watson, all power to your sauna. Thank you so much for joining us. In the interest of balance, I should say that other forms of relaxation are available. They're just not as good.

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1731.097 - 1758.831 Oliver Conway

Johnny Diamond talking to outdoor sauna owner Liz Watson. And that is all from the Happy Pod for now. If you'd like to get in touch about any of our stories or if you have one of your own to share, you can send us an email or voice note to globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk. This edition was mixed by Daniel Fox and produced by Holly Gibbs and Rachel Bulkley. Our editor is Karen Martin. I'm Oliver Conway.

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1759.071 - 1760.232 Oliver Conway

Until next time, goodbye.

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