The 1970s band The New York Dolls made only two studio albums, but the group was hugely influential, setting the stage for punk rock. We listen back to Terry Gross' 2004 interview with the band's co-founder David Johansen, who died last week. The group was described as flashy, trashy and drag queens — but Johansen didn't care. He later went on to perform under the persona of the pompadoured lounge singer Buster Poindexter. Also, film critic Justin Chang reviews Mickey 17, a futuristic action-comedy by Parasite director, Bong Joon Ho.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
Chapter 1: Who was David Johansen and why is he significant?
This is Fresh Air. I'm Dave Davies. David Johansson, a founding member of the legendary 1970s band the New York Dolls, died last week. He was 75. The New York Dolls never sold many records, but the band had lasting influence, paving the way for punk rock. He also performed in his persona Buster Poindexter, a pompadour-wearing lounge lizard.
And he played the blues with his band David Johansson and the Harry Smiths. Johansson was the subject of a 2022 Showtime documentary co-directed by Martin Scorsese and David Tedeschi called Personality Crisis, One Night Only. Much of the documentary is built around Johansson's 2020 performance as Buster Poindexter at the Cafe Carlisle in New York City.
The film also featured newly discovered and archival interviews with him and others. Here's a clip from the documentary with English singer and songwriter Morrissey. He says he was obsessed with the New York Dolls as a teenager because they brought a sense of danger to rock. Their music was loud and rough, but more than that...
So here were boys who were calling themselves dolls, and they looked like prostitutes, male prostitutes, which at the time, you have to remember it was a long time ago, and all of that kind of thing was really taboo.
English singer Morrissey from the Showtime documentary about the New York Dolls. Terry Gross spoke to David Johanson in 2004. The surviving members of the band had just reunited at Morrissey's request for a festival in England. Their performance was recorded on a CD and DVD titled The Return of the New York Dolls, live from Royal Festival Hall.
Terry's interview starts with a track from the album called Looking for a Kiss. The Dolls used to play this one in the 1970s. It was written by David Johansson, who also sings lead.
When I say I'm in love, you best believe I'm in love, M.U.V. I always saw you just before the dawn All the other kids you're just draggin' along I couldn't believe the way you seemed to be Timber in the place they used to say to be I could go off every waste of time cause I gotta have my fun I gotta get some fun I gotta keep on movin' Can't stop till it's all done I've been looking for a kiss
So when you were on stage with the Reunited and the new version of the Dolls, and you were doing the old Dolls songs, did you have any flashbacks to things that you had totally forgotten about? Did memories surface of things that were really interesting that you had completely forgotten about until you were back in that setting again?
Well, I have memories, but God, they're vague. I mean, I remember the first time We made a record with Todd Rundgren, and the only thing I remember is the lights on the control board. I thought they were really pretty. And that's really the only memory I have.
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Chapter 2: What was the impact of the New York Dolls on punk rock?
Well, why don't we hear Personality Crisis as performed by the New York Dolls at the Meltdown Festival over the summer. So this is from The Return of the New York Dolls.
You're my sister. I'm your mother. We can't take it this way. I'm fed to one another in space.
Only more of that's a thing that you and she's got to say. Come on! Is that what you got? What you got? Personality!
In the liner notes for the DVD and the CD, you write about Arthur Kane. This was his last performance. He was the bass player of the band. And it was Arthur Kane who knocked on your door and recruited you to be in the Dolls when the band was being formed. He died just a few weeks after the concert. Did you even know he was sick?
No, and neither did he. You know, he had had this incredible life, Arthur, and he was just this really brilliant guy who had this incredible insight into reality that was just... one step to the left of probably the most radical people I had ever met at that point. And I don't even mean, you know, politics. I just mean the way he saw things. And they were always spot on.
And he was just so brilliant to me. And then he kind of He had come from this family that was just like hell on earth. And he got a taste for the booze and went through like a lot of years of just being drunk all the time. And I remember he got to this point where you would just say, hi, Arthur, and he would just say, woof. His only word became woof. Anyway, he went through all this stuff.
I mean, I can't begin to tell you. In his life, he fell out a window. He did this. He got hit by a car. He did this. He did that. And then he came out the other side, and he got involved with, like, you know, the Mormons and became the librarian at the family history office at the Mormon tabernacle and So he was like this Mormon, but with this really kind of demented outlook on life.
So he wasn't, you know, like a proselytizer. But he just was so wonderful. And he had this very high voice. And he was six foot five or something.
Let's talk about how he did recruit you for the band. He knocked on your door in your apartment in Manhattan. You were, what, around 19 or something? What did he tell you about this new band?
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Chapter 3: How did Morrissey describe the New York Dolls?
Right.
And the band's name is written in lipstick. Right. For those of us who didn't get to see you on stage, how did that compare with how you actually looked on stage?
Well, that was probably, you know, I mean... I think, you know, to the average civilian, it probably didn't look any different. But to us, we were like dressing up a little bit more, make it a little special for the audience. For the record cover, you know. You know, Sylvain was in the rag trade with Billy.
They had this little sweater company called Truth and... Well, they sold it to this company called Truth and Soul. They used to make these poor boy sweaters. They had a loom. And through that, they knew a lot of people who actually are very kind of famous designers now, but who were just getting started. And I think it was like...
Betsy Johnson and these women that she used to work with, they had a store in St. Mark's Place and they knew a photographer and they knew a makeup guy and they knew this and that. We didn't know anything about that. So I think they helped to facilitate that photo session.
What inspired your interest in or willingness to be in a kind of drag for performances? I mean, you mentioned you had been with Charles Ludlam's Ridiculous Theater, and drag was often a part of their performances in theater. So where did you see it fitting into your music?
Well, you know, we were, you know, the hotbed of revolution at that time was, you know, St. Mark's Place and 2nd Avenue. And through that, you know, there were so many artists there and, you know, actors and people who were doing these plays, like the Ridiculous People. And there was, you know, filmmakers and poets and painters. And we were the band...
that crowd I mean it wasn't like we were the band of even New York City you know we were the band basically of the East Village you know and it wasn't so much like a sexual thing cuz you know like sexuality refers to like biological aspects it was more like a gender thing you know and gender is like You know, like the cultural differences that grow up around the biological differences.
So instead of like male and female, gender is really masculine and feminine, right? I think the trick for us at the time was to decide which characteristics were sex and which were gender, you know? Because there's certain things males do and there's certain things females do. I mean, the universe didn't make two sexes for nothing,
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