In Richard Price's new novel, Lazarus Man, a five-story building collapses, upending the lives of the building's residents. It's about second chances and finding the faith to carry on. Price has written for HBO's The Wire and The Deuce, and co-created HBO's The Night Of and The Outsider. Several of his novels, including Clockers, were adapted into films. He spoke with Terry Gross. Also, Maureen Corrigan shares two books that offer humor and beauty: Billy Collins' collection of poetry Water, Water, and The Dog Who Followed The Moon by James Norbury.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
Chapter 1: What is Richard Price's new novel about?
This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. I always look forward to a new Richard Price novel, and after nearly 10 years of waiting, he has a new one called Lazarus Man. During those 10 years, he co-created and wrote for the HBO series The Night Of and The Outsider, and wrote for the HBO series The Deuce. Before that, he wrote for The Wire, one of the best TV series ever.
Several of his earlier novels were adapted into films, including Clockers, Freedomland, and The Wanderers. He also wrote the screenplay for the film Al Pacino considers his comeback film, Sea of Love.
Price is considered one of the best writers of urban fiction and one of the best writers of dialogue, and I think that's true of his new novel, which is set in Harlem, where Price has lived since 2008, the same year that the novel is set. The story revolves around the collapse of a five-story building whose impact is like a very small-scale 9-11.
It's devastating for the people in the neighborhood, including the survivors and the people grieving for loved ones who've died. The collapse changes the lives of each of the main characters, including a young street photographer, a police community affairs officer, a funeral director who can't keep up with the quota of bodies he needs to stay in business,
and a 42-year-old man who has been feeling like he's lost everything and has little to live for and is found buried in the rubble. It's remarkable that he's still alive, which is why the novel's called Lazarus Man.
Reviewing the novel in the Washington Post, Ron Charles wrote, For a nation riven and terrified, Lazarus Man is the strangest of urban thrillers, a thoughtful, even peaceful story about stumbling into new life. Richard Price, welcome back to Fresh Air. Because I love your writing, I want to start with a reading from the very beginning of the book.
All righty. It was one of those nights for Anthony Carter, 42, two years unemployed, two years separated from his wife and stepdaughter, six months into cocaine sobriety, and recently moved into his late parents' apartment on Frederick Douglass Boulevard. Went to be alone with his thoughts, alone with his losses. was not survivable.
So he did what he always did, hit the streets, meaning hit the bars on Lenox, one after the other, finding this one too ghetto, that one too Scandinavian tourist, this one too loud, that one too quiet, on and on, taking just a few sips of his drink in each one, dropping dollars and heading out for the next establishment, like an 80-proof Goldilocks.
thinking maybe this next place, this next random conversation, would be the trigger for some kind of epiphany that would show him a new way to be. But it was all part of a routine that never led him anywhere but back to the apartment. This he knew. This he had learned over and over. But maybe this time is a drug. You never know is a drug. So out the door he went.
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Chapter 2: How does the COVID shutdown influence Price's writing?
Sure, yeah. No, absolutely.
Yeah, he's a little bit of a celebrity because he is the Lazarus Man. He has survived 36 hours in the rubble when no one detected any kind of sign of life. And yet he was miraculously found. This is what he's saying to people to give them hope, you know, at this funeral for a young kid who was shot trying to... Get in between two gangs to calm people down.
As I said before, I've never been a deeply religious individual. And I still don't consider myself one. But I feel guided now. And my purpose in being here today is to deliver to you a message that just might make it possible to accept your aching hearts and continue to live the life that he has given you. For a brief moment, he stood there speechless, amazed at what he was about to say.
What I have learned since that day in the rubble is that whatever befalls you in life, whatever appears to you as an impossible burden, an unbearable weight, in the end, if you persevere, if you hold fast, will turn out to be a gift. Whatever befalls you, no matter how heartbreaking or onerous, will turn out to be the best thing, the perfect thing, because of what is to come out of it.
In fact, it will be the best thing that could possibly happen to you.
There is a fair amount of gratitude in the novel. And I think gratitude and a gratitude practice has sometimes come to seem like a cliche. On the other hand, gratitude is a really important thing to have in your life and to be able to find gratitude in life. And I'm wondering for you as a writer, how do you take something that could be a cliche and turn it into something that's not?
When I read my reviews and they say what has resonated with them, they'll use words like gratitude. But I wasn't thinking, oh, I'm going to really use gratitude as a theme. I mean, the guy just survived everything. a miraculous thing. And you got to be grateful for that. And all of a sudden, in that gratefulness, you see how precious life is because you almost were not here anymore.
And if you're inspired, you want to spread that message, the getting of grace. He just says at some point, every minute of every day, everything is precious. When I was pulled out of that rubble and I could take my first undirt caked breath, all I wanted to do was to live and live and live. It just happened to me in a way that very low key happened.
I feel like I am the person I was when I talked to you the last time, but I'm not the person I was when I talked to you the last time. And I'm not religious, believe me. It's happiness. I just somehow discovered peace. in my life. Like, my earlier books, there was always this propelling anxiety in me that I have to make it, like, dazzling and spectacular and blow people away.
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Chapter 3: What role does race play in Richard Price's characters?
And she sort of makes him shake her hand. And, I mean, that's, like, brilliant.
I think so, too. I so admire people who have that ability to, instead of, like, confronting somebody in anger, just kind of disarm them with humanity.
You have to have that confidence. And you have to have grown out of... being a five-year-old in a 40-year-old body emotionally. You have to not be a victim of arrested development. So you have your wits about you. You don't fly off the handle. You look at this and say, how am I going to peel this onion? You know, and there are people who do that.
There are other people, you know, who shoot you in the back because you wrote a drill rap lyric that's offensive to them. And it's worth getting killed over. It's a whole world out there, you know?
Chapter 4: How does Richard Price approach writing about cultural sensitivity?
Chapter 5: What themes of gratitude are present in Lazarus Man?
This is just a small thing from the book that I just wanted to ask you. I'll read the sentence. I have often wondered in hotels how many people have had affairs, how many people have had sex on this blanket that may or may not have been washed since or the bedspread that may or may not have been washed since. Do you wonder about that when you're in hotels?
Not if I can help it. I mean, I don't go to like, you know, hot sheet motels. Right. But what you don't know probably would stun you and horrify you. I mean, the character in the book, it's an affair Mary, the detective, is having with another detective. And, you know, they go to like cheap motels before they went to change. And... This guy gets an ultralight. I forgot what it's called. Luminol.
It's something that casts a blue light that brings out things that you can't see with the naked eye. And they usually use it at crime scenes, you know, to pick up blood patterns or, you know, body fluids or God knows what. And the first time he brought it to... their motel and put it on the bedroom. It was like a psychedelic circus.
And that's when they, you know, it's just God knows who's been here doing what. And, you know, there's stuff here, you know, that could kill a horse that you can't see. And that's why they went to chain hotels. But who knows if they're any better.
Let's take another break here and then we'll talk some more. If you're just joining us, my guest is Richard Price. His new novel is called Lazarus Man. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Terry Gross and this is Fresh Air. This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with Richard Price.
His new novel, Lazarus Man, is set in Harlem, where he lives, and follows the lives of several people whose lives are changed after the collapse of a five-story building, including one man who was found in the rubble. Price is the author of several novels that have been adapted into movies, including Clockers, Freedomland, and The Wanderers.
He co-created and wrote for the HBO series The Night Of and The Outsider, and wrote for the HBO series The Wire and The Deuce. There's a story in your book that I really love. It's the woman who's a postal worker and her son was shot in the calf. He wasn't the target, but he was collateral damage. And she's sure of who did it. And he's a really large guy.
And she goes up to him with her son and says, I have no idea who did this to him, but if you know, can you tell him that my son's a really decent kid? And he runs with some troublemakers, but he's a really good kid.
Yes. I mean, basically, when the kids are in the hospital, he just had a graze room. And the detectives, he won't talk because he knows better. And the detectives turned to her and she says, uh, mommy, can you do your mommy thing? Get him to talk. And she doesn't, she says, I'll take care of this myself. And her strategy, which is great.
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Chapter 6: How does dialogue shape Richard Price's characters?
Chapter 7: What is the significance of the character Anthony in Lazarus Man?
Chapter 8: How does Richard Price view his relationship with religion?
Do the best you can. You're not just hatched from an egg. You know, make everybody equally human and then let it go.
One of the characters founded a group called Put the Guns Down. This is like an anti-youth violence group and also founded a youth mentorship program, Young Scholars for the Future. And these are all former gang members, many of them who'd been in prison, who now want to be of service to young people and kind of convince them they don't want that life anymore.
So one day in the park, they're there and giving inspirational speeches from former gang members. And I just want to quote a little bit of it. Sure. So the founder of the group says, in terms of mentoring young people, we'll become their surrogate fathers because that's what they need. Because in my experience, and no disrespect to you ladies, but in my experience, it takes a man to raise a man.
I'm not leaving out the young girls. We also have females in our organization who will work directly with the young girls to teach them mannerisms, etiquette, and how to be classy young ladies. You know, I have such respect for the people who—this is me talking, no longer quoting the book. I have such respect for people who do this kind of work. But there was this inherent sexism.
Sure. I mean, that's the whole point. That's one of the points, yeah.
Yeah, so talk about that a little bit.
Well, you know, people can be for social justice, right? People could put their lives on the line. They could put in the hours to save youth from going down the wrong path. But that doesn't mean they're saints. That doesn't mean they get the whole picture. They could still be sexist. They can still be man comes first. and the priorities of the disguise.
He imagines these women, but he's like a woman in the 1950s, let alone the 1250s. He's saying it in goodwill, but he's revealing where his enlightenment comes to a dead stop.
Also, I know you love malaprops, like words used inappropriately. And this character says that we'll work directly with the young girls to teach them mannerisms, etiquette, and how to be classy young ladies. I think he means manners, but he's saying mannerisms.
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