In this episode of the Farm4Profit Podcast, we dive into the cutting-edge world of predictive analytics in agriculture with experts from Pattern.ag. Learn how their technology helps farmers make data-driven decisions by analyzing soil, crop health, and environmental conditions. We discuss how predictive models can anticipate yield outcomes, optimize inputs, and reduce risks, ultimately increasing profitability and sustainability for modern farms. Tune in to discover how advanced data insights are transforming the future of farming and reshaping decision-making processes in the field.Don’t forget to like the podcast on all platforms and leave a review where ever you listen!Websitewww.Farm4Profit.comShareable episode linkhttps://intro-to-farm4profit.simplecast.comEmail [email protected] to YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSR8c1BrCjNDDI_Acku5XqwFollow us on TikTokhttps://www.tiktok.com/@farm4profitConnect with us on Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/Farm4ProfitLLC/
Data in and of itself is interesting, but if it's not actionable, then it's worthless. What we've done is we've put it in a platform where people can take action. They can look at it. Anybody can look at it and say, okay, do this for the next season and be able to make smarter decisions because you know what the risks are that are out there.
Ladies and gentlemen, farmers, ranchers, and distinguished guests, thank you for listening to the Farm for Profit podcast, where we discuss the latest ideas, methods, trends, and techniques available to help your farm achieve higher levels of farm profitability. Remember, if you aren't farming for profit, you won't be farming for long.
So here to talk nitrogen stabilizers with a great representative from Corteva, I've got Andrew Luzum here. And welcome back to the podcast. Thank you. Appreciate it. We had a great conversation with Taylor earlier this fall focusing on fall applied nitrogen. What types of insights do you have to share with us on that side, Andrew?
I mean, even when we're applying a fall nitrogen stabilizer, the reality is hopefully we're applying nitrogen in the fall when it's below 50 degrees and the soil temps are falling. realistically, we're not using the days of our stabilizer in the fall or hopefully the winter. It's actually we're using those days in spring as soil temps warm up. It's really when we have nitrogen at risk of loss.
And so that's why we want to make sure we're using nitrogen stabilizers both fall and spring. But realistically, you know, you look at this last year, you know, March was actually probably more of our nitrogen loss time period this year. And nobody thinks about that. March was relatively dry for most of the corn belt. And really, you look at what happened this last year.
We went through a warm March. We started to convert nitrogen. And then what happened in April and May? It started raining and it never stopped, right? And so when you look at what we've seen in this last year, we had a lot of falling hydrous trials with NSERV out all over the Corn Belt this last year.
When we compare those trials, where we had NSERV, we were carrying an average of 5% to 11% more nitrogen in the ammonium form than in nitrate form. You may say, why is that important? When nitrogen is not in the ammonium form and it's in the nitrate form, it's a totally susceptible to loss, right? And we know that 70% of our loss happens below ground.
So that's why we want to make sure we're using proven products like insert and instinct.
Yeah, I wonder if all of our producers realize how important it is to have nitrogen in the ammonium form.
You know, it's a big conversation always is the fact that we have to remember that our soils are negatively charged. And so when it's in the ammonium form, it's in a positive form. It's reasons why we never talk about ammonium running down our waterways or what we're losing from leachate. It's always in the nitrate form. So corn actually does prefer corn or nitrogen in the ammonium form.
And by doing that, it's going to allow it to have an easier uptake and hopefully more conversion towards yield, test weight, dry down, etc. in the fall. If somebody wants to learn more about nitrogen stabilizers, how best do they do that? Yeah, they should be able to do that through their local retailer to reach out to a local Corteva AgriScience rep.
If they don't have success there, please just go to nitrogenstabilizers.com and you'll be able to see everything we've got going.
Well, Corey, it's time for a What's Working in Ag segment. Right now, we want to know what the commodity markets are up to. We got an early start, it feels like, on harvest across the Midwest, and we know a lot of our friends in the South have been going for quite some time. I even got a Snapchat saying, Southern Illinois, they're already done with corn harvest. Really?
Yeah. Which Illinois goes a ways down there.
It does. It does get down there. But we've got a good friend on the podcast here. We've got Andrew Cubbish. Yes. Because it rhymes with rubbish. It's one of those things that if you can introduce yourself that way, you rarely get forgotten.
Are you going to say that every time? I think you've said that every time, Andrew.
I do.
And he's a regular on now.
That's the way. That's exactly how you described it, wasn't it, Andrew?
That's right. Yeah, memorable.
Remind our listeners who you work for and what your position is.
Lighthouse Commodities based out of Bismarck, North Dakota. I office out of South Central Nebraska. And then we just help farmers manage grain market risk.
That's right. So we're recording this Friday, September 20th, so right close to the airing date. Give us a once-over. What are the corn and soybean markets? Hold on, hold on.
We have to first say, look at that shirt he's got on. I was trying to draw the least amount of attention to it. We always give Nebraska crap. We've got to give credit where credit is due. 400 starts in their football stadium sold out today on the 20th. Congratulations, Nebraska. They're having a great season so far. And they have not had that for a while, so good job, guys.
I want my old Corey back.
I don't like this Corey. We'll see you when Iowa goes there.
That's right. Well, you've got a few games. As long as we're bowl eligible this year, we'll be happy.
You're well on the way. What, you've got three wins, four wins now?
Yeah, three wins.
Congratulations on that, and that's enough talk, and that is the most talk about Nebraska positively that we will ever do.
Yeah, the rest of this episode.
I appreciate that.
The logo is going to be blurred out on his shirt.
All right. Well, that's probably better talking about that than the market, so let's talk markets.
All right. Give us a rundown, Andrew.
Give us a rundown. Well, I mean, I think since, you know, we've started chatting on marketing here since even late July or late June, early July. You know, market's kind of done what we thought, although, you know, we've I think we've digested this big crop and, you know, maybe the lows aren't quite in yet. But I think the market's shown some decent signs that we, you know,
We're comfortable with crop size today, and now we're on to trading the next thing, South American weather and exports and demand and stuff like that. So, you know, from that perspective, you know, we're in that window of seasonal lows. And if we've weathered it this far, then, you know, hopefully better days ahead here.
So we had lows, but we did bounce up off the lows, right, a little bit? We're higher than those now?
Yeah, certainly. You know, corn, we moved almost 7% off the late August low there. And then soybeans were about 6.5% off that low as well. So, I mean, it's certainly nothing to lose sight on. I think for a lot of people, it's the need to start adjusting expectations.
You know, I think, as we all know, I think outside of some pockets, it looks like early yield results for corn and beans across a lot of the Midwest are coming in above average. And so I think that's the biggest thing is guys got to start, you know, adjusting and saying, hey, you know, man, you know, I miss I miss my 450 corn, but man, I got 280 corn this year. Well, turns out $4 corn.
isn't as fun but now you got those extra bushels to sell and it starts all adding up again so i think you know that's the same mantra we're dealing with our clients today is hey we got some pretty good yields out there even though prices aren't quite where we hoped they were going to be at some point we got these extra bushels break evens drop and there's still opportunities out there so what are you hearing for early yield reports i know you said better than expected but
We expected better than expected, right?
Yeah, I mean, I know some of our friends in the industry share some yield reports, and it seems like a lot of the Iowa, Illinois, you know, 240 APHs, 260, 280-type corn yields. I think beans, you know, 65, 70 APH, 80, 85 bean yields. I'm like, personally, I haven't, you know, sir, quick personal handout.
I actually went out and was looking at some of my dry land corn central Nebraska hasn't had measurable precip on it since mid August and farm, you know, corn's thrown true doubles on dry land. Wow. 18 by 35, 16 by 25 on the secondary year. I mean, that that's one 70 corn. And I was hoping for one 25 on the APH. So I think there's again, pockets that'll be,
Maybe not more trend line, but it certainly seems the way corn yields are stacking up, we're truly seeing some pretty big yields out there today.
He's going to physically make the markets go down himself just from the show. I know. We've got to put ourselves in perspective. Having extra bushels to sell is great. I know that there's a lot of producers that are looking for what could be positive news to send grain markets up. What we got this week is the Fed cut interest rates. which ultimately should weaken the U.S.
dollar, which ultimately should have an effect on commodities eventually, correct?
Yeah, I think you got both the U.S. dollar weakening and then just generally you start seeing a trend towards a little bit – trying to quash inflation, but now we're going to maybe reintroduce some inflation. Generally inflation is, is okay for these commodity markets.
And, um, you know, to that point, uh, yeah, I think you, you kind of see some cyclical, Hey, we're going to start putting a few more dollars back into the commodity sector. Cause it's probably going to get a little inflationary and that spec money is kind of what drives some of these bigger moves and stuff. And,
You look at the price action in this market in the last 30 days, even against a bigger yield number last week on the WASDE and stuff. We traded lower briefly, but we're back above four pretty quick after the report. Never say never, but those are pretty good indications the market's priced a good chunk of what this crop size is. Now it's, again, looking for that next thing.
That's the demand piece, the inflation piece, whatever.
Is there any other areas of news that could potentially come out and have a positive effect on the market?
I mean, you still got to keep a close eye on the South American weather like all I mean, you know, the last five to 10 years. I mean, you know, that's that's our competition. And if they start having an issue down there, they've been very dry starting out.
But, you know, forecasts seem to indicate that they're going to start picking up rain in early October, which would be right around normal seeding time for a good share of their acres. If that transpires, you know, that's that's off the table. You still have some pent up what appears to be some Fairly significant bean demand going into the Southeast Asian markets through November, December.
And then, you know, I got the wild card of the elections coming up. I mean, there could be a lot of pluses or minuses at least construed from where that goes.
So we're looking at a large crop.
coming in that's going to get us a glut of grain that needs to go somewhere that possibly we don't have farm on farm storage for what should we do with that extra grain and how is basis the basis going to look going forward yeah that's a that's a good part especially for you guys in iowa east i mean i think this thing is really going to be you know i think you still got old crop in some areas that is still sitting in a bin some spots and um you know to that point you know
kind of go through your numbers and say hey if i'm 265 corn and i gotta sell a little off the combine at 380 um you know maybe that isn't the worst thing in the world and just take the revenue and run with it stop some interest and um you know to the flip side you know do not in these markets go start putting grain on basis contracts with no plan um big carries to march you know you're
45, 50 under harvest basis or 30 under whatever 20 cent carries to March almost that's 50 under the March, which turns into 70 under the May. And, you know, you'll just never, never get that back really at all. So that's one big caution, even for the guys that we work on the risk management side, you know, even if we're going to have big crops is let's have a plan for that stuff.
Don't just start dumping on DP or basis and just forgetting about it. Cause you're going to just run yourself right into a hole. And I'd rather take the cash in hand and, live for another day if we need to. And if it's because of bigger yields, that's not a bad problem to have either. You know, that's a good thing.
So as you think about that, you might have to cut bait on some of your crop this year. But Andrew, are you already working with folks for 2025 crop?
Yeah. And looking at 25 crop, I mean, we as a group did a round of selling along with the May rally. I mean, there was opportunities out there. You look at the carryout on corn today, you know, $2 billion is a big number.
But, you know, depending on economics and stuff like that, you know, historically, if you look at analysis, there's a pretty good shot that we'll have a chance for 470 plus corn sometime in the next six, you know, six to eight months as we move into the spring summer of next year.
So, you know, just have the targets in mind, you know, the farmers, unfortunately, probably will fully undersold again for this crop. So there is going to be a lot of selling pressure out there. But, you know, know where you want to have a sale. just be happy with the sale. This isn't the year to necessarily probably get cute with, Oh, I think it's, you know, five 50 or six.
And Hey, if it does go there, start selling more of next year's crop and stuff like that. But I think rallies will be fairly limited. You know, the top end, you know, most of these years, like on the stocks use that we see today, I mean, you know, high end is maybe, maybe $5 new crop corn in a stocks use environment we're in today. So beans are,
little concerning with the stocks you use especially if south america comes around on their crop you know this 10 high 10 dollar you know window is kind of the top side of that range could be back into you know 850 type numbers which that that even with record yields is not going to be a lot of fun so so i got 470 and five dollars wrote down andrew told us we're going to get to now yeah i mean you know we do a lot of a lot of analytical looks and i mean we even got a
we have an equine analyst on staff and I mean, you know, you never know what things are in hold, but it's, it's like an 85% chance that you would have a shot at, you know, four 70 plus corn. Again, not a lot of fun, but it's way better than $3 and 50 cent corn.
So the market almost has to have this huge yield priced in right now then.
Yeah, I think, I think we do. I mean, just the way the market's been reacting. I mean, we may go retest that step low one more time. Um, but I, I think unless we find, you know, one somehow come up with another three bushel an acre nationally or something crazy, you know, we're getting to that point where you run out of seasonality. You found demand sub $4 corn on the export side.
You know, it's just the bigger thing to think about is we aren't probably going back to $4.50 next week. It's we're, you know, we're $4, $4.20 type corn.
And the other thing too, to keep an eye on is, you know, selling these big carries, you know, you can go sell, have the opportunity to sell 450 July corn this week on the board, you know, 30 under basis in the local market or better zero basis, 450, 430 corn for next, you know, that's for the summer corn. It's, it's not the worst thing in the world.
You know, the, you know, big markets, big carries sell to carry and, you're not going to get burned too badly on that.
Any big dates or reports we should be looking forward to?
We really don't have much. I mean, you got some stocks reports here coming up that'll kind of wind up the whole crop year, but I mean, probably not a huge game changer on that front. You know, I think it's really just going to be looking, you know, obviously as we move through a balance of the, late fall WASDE reports, you'll start to see potentially, you know, big crops get bigger mantra.
But we'll see if we can offset some of that potential, you know, if there's some potential yield increases with some more demand. And then, of course, you got your January report that that's going to be the big dog, so to speak, on kind of wrapping up this whole, you know, this 24 crop size and stuff.
But it's really just going to be yield adjustments from here on out from the WASDE side in the next few months, hopefully reports.
So we know our listeners are always looking for partners, strategic alliances to be able to help their businesses get better. We appreciate you taking 2024 to share your insights, whether they've been rosy or not so. We're just sharing the facts this season. If they want to work with you or other folks at Lighthouse, how best do they reach out?
Yeah, you can reach out on our website, lighthousecommodities.com, or just give us a ring, 701-516-8025. And, you know, that's the easiest way to get ahold of us one way or the other. And we're glad to chat with guys and see what their needs are in any form or fashion.
Awesome. Well, thanks again for hanging out with us.
Appreciate it. Thanks, guys.
Well, Corey, we had Todd Dale on here from Estes Concaves to talk to us about getting our combine set for soybean. Yep. But now let's jump into those that are starting corn harvest.
Well, corn's kind of, I mean, it's the same type of thing because a lot of the time you're killing the plant by running the combine through it. Same thing with the soybeans. There's a lot of green left, especially early on. So you want to minimize the potential movement of the cob once it's
got itself into your concave cage so if you can imagine you know you've got you've got a round ear of corn a round cob round rotor rounded elements on or rotor bars you don't want that cob to be able to like roll and twist and things like that you want it to stay like as linear to the rotor as you can so you want it to almost be pinned between like the rotor and the concave in a perfect world and i understand we're not you know that that's an unrealistic expectation but
That's what you're hoping to do. So a lot of the time, closing a concave clearance down to match the circumference of the ear is what you want to do. That's one place where our XPR bar will shine is you can get away with running some tighter clearances like an 18 or 20 millimeter gap on your rotor clearance. And a rotor speed of right around 300 RPMs.
You want to keep that gap as tight as you can without damaging the kernel. So again, I'll go back to the cracking point theory of the grain. It's always good to know at what point your combine is too aggressive for your grain. So when is it cracking a high volume or a high percentage grain? of kernels. And at that, that setting's no good.
You've got to go more open from there, or you've got to slow your rotor down slightly. One of the two, and sometimes I wish I could tell you every time what the secret is, but sometimes for me, it's slowing my rotor down 20 more RPMs. For you, it might be opening your clearance up two more millimeters. It's just hard to know exactly which one is going to be the correct way to do it.
But basically, you want to just minimize the potential movement of a corn cob once it's in the rotor cage.
If our listeners want to learn more about the XPR3s and what you guys have in store, how best do they look you up?
Just probably Google Estes Concaves. I mean, it's going to be, it'll pop up and everything. Our website's estesperformanceconcaves.com. All the information that you should, I mean, a lot that you need to get started on the investigation process, if it's something you want to move forward with, and then give one of us a call. We've got phone numbers listed on there. We'd be happy to talk with you.
Awesome. Well, thank you much for your time. Thank you. And now a quick word from one of our sponsors, Brandt Agricultural Products. Reach farther and work smarter with Brandt XT Grain Carts. Unloading grain has never been easier with unmatched auger visibility, four-direction spout control, and complete grain tank clean-out so you can unload fast and fill the truck evenly, worry-free.
Lead the field and keep your combines moving with the XT Grain Carts from Brandt. Visit brandt.ca for more information. All right, everybody here at the Sukup booth, this is the time for us to hopefully drop some new information, exciting news, and great content on your ears. This is the Farm for Profit podcast.
If this is the first time you're tuning into us, we try to have a little bit of fun and make learning entertaining. I was going to say entertaining. Really? You haven't heard that before? I've heard of that, but I think we're a little bit better than edutainment. Okay.
But yes, we certainly like to have a little bit of fun while discovering something that might help your farm or business make a little bit more money. That's the goal here behind Farm for Profit. So we're excited here to feature Pattern Ag and their partners, Earth Optics. So we're going to have a great conversation to learn a little bit about how we can use predictive analytics
in and around your farm. So we've got two guests today to join Corey and I up here on stage. We've got Mike and Britt, and we're going to let them introduce themselves. And of course, ladies first. Britt, why don't you start?
Well, thank you. I'm Britt Buchanan. I'm the VP of Sales at Earth Optics. I've been with Earth Optics for coming up on three years now. And I've worked in the agriculture industry for a good 12, 13 years, predominantly in technical sales. So first time at Farm Progress, though.
All right. So that was Britt.
Now we're going to go to Mike. Hi, Mike Tweedy. I'm head of sales at Pattern Ag. I've worked in agriculture my entire career, and I'm from a seventh-generation farm in southern Illinois. All right, so you guys, do you still farm now? No, it's not an active farm anymore. My dad retired. Okay, and it ends there, huh? And it ends there. How do you feel about that? Bittersweet.
He put this time in as well as working at the university, but it's always nice to go home to the farm and know that it's always going to be in our family.
So you've got an Earth Optics hat on and a Pattern Ag shirt on. What's the relationship between the two of them?
So we started our partnership this past spring, spring 2024, and this fall that partnership's grown. We're doing an increasing amount of work together very quickly because there is some great synergy between our offerings.
Okay, so now we're going to have to get the background of both companies so we can try and dive into what that synergy is. So who wants to tackle the Pattern Ag side of this? I'll take Pattern Ag.
So Pattern Ag was founded in 2018 and we study soil biology and use that to determine what are the risks for the upcoming crop season for the grower. And then we take all that biological data and we turn that into a prescriptive risk-based crop plan for the grower.
So soil biology, and I think of soil, I think of soil samples and things like that. Are you guys doing soil samples and all that?
Well, therein comes the collaboration with Earth Optics from the nutrient side and from the tillage side. We specialize on the pattern side and the biology. That is the newest space for measuring risks in the field. Up until a few years ago, it was not available because DNA sequencing couldn't be done at scale in agriculture, but it can be now. DNA sequencing in the soil? That is correct.
Normal soil tests don't do that, right? Nope. Normal soil test is a chemical test that looks at nutrient values of your macros and your micros.
So, okay, before we get to the next one, I'm kind of geeking out here. Like, I know the normal soil tests, and then you got your Haney's and things like that. So, like, when I get a soil sample back from you, what's on the page?
Well, you'll actually get a digital crop plan from us is what you'll receive. So we specialize in corn, soybeans, wheat, cotton, and sugar beets. And so whenever we run an analysis on that field, we are specifically looking for pathogens like corn rootworm, soybean cyst nematode, sudden death syndrome, red crown rot.
You know, a lot of the bad stuff that's out in the field, we're picking up the DNA signature of those, and we not only measure how much, or not only measure whether it's there, but how much is there. We determine the risk level of what that is, and then what steps you need to do to mitigate that risk for the upcoming crop season. So, on average here, we're in central Iowa right now.
You know, we ran our soil prediction, soil productivity index and we found that a lot of growers, a lot of soybean growers are leaving about 17, 18 bushels on the table just based on not understanding what their risks are in that field and then being able to take action on it. So to answer your question, what do you get back from us? People really don't want to know how the sausage is made.
They just want to know what do I do. You get a crop plan. So with a push of a button, the trusted advisor or our dealer will then be able to determine about 80 to 90% of that crop plan, hybrid, variety, seed treatment, other inputs, fertilizer recommendations, as well as tillage prescription with a push of a button.
18 bushel an acre. That's a lot more than any one product could actually ever say. It's a lot of three and fours and fives.
Yeah, and it's not just one thing that's doing that. It's nutrients, it's compaction, it's biofertility attributes, not having the right biofertility levels in your soil. It's pathogens, being able to manage for those things. So we look at those and then we turn around and put that into a very simple and easy to understand crop plan that their trusted advisor can give to the grower.
So are you very familiar with the soils right here around the Farm Progress Showgrounds? We are. Can I take a stab at one of our biggest yield drags in soybeans? Sure. Cis nematode?
No, that's actually not one of the most under-managed pathogens that's in soybeans here in Central Iowa. The most under-managed pathogen in soybeans is going to be red crown rot. Really? Yep. And what do you do? And that's about an average of, you know, anywhere from 5 to 10 bushels is what we found on the 300 fields that we tested and ran through our model.
That's 100 bucks an acre. Yep. I'm going to write that down because I feel like we're leaving the other side of it out, but I do want to come back to that. Oh, she's very patient. I know, I know, but I want to back up. We'll get back to it, right? So earth optics, how does that come into the picture?
So the cool thing about the combined offering is that part of the expense of getting these data insights is actually the visit to the field where you collect the soil. And so Earth Optics on the agronomy focus has two data layer components to bring to the table here. One is till mapper. So we're mapping compaction inch by inch across the field. We're using both sensors.
So we use two sensors, electromagnetic induction and ground penetrating radar. We combine that with a ground truth measurement. For till mapper, the ground truth measurement is a DCP, digital cone penetrometer reading, that measures pounds per square inch in the soil for the top 18 inches.
So that results in a map that shows you not just where do I have compaction in my field, but at what depth is it an issue.
That's interesting because I know that there's a lot of push lately as far as conservation practices go and the talks about carbon credits to reduce tillage or go to strip till, but to fully understand where that compaction layer in your field is key because that's going to help you make some management decisions, but it goes beyond that.
That's right. And I think we might need all our time here today because we're talking about agronomy out of the gate here, but earth optics bread and butter is really in the carbon space today in terms of leveraging our direct service arm in soil sampling activities. So we'll talk about that too. There's a conversation on the carbon front, but you're right. There's
a major synergy between till mapper and what results in a tool that we call variable depth tillage.
So it's a customizable tool where the trusted advisor on the farm, the agronomist you work with, the retail organization you work with, or the farmer themselves can customize and set a target PSI for the fields that can depend on what crop you're going to plant or even what hybrid you're going to plant. and then what implement depth of focus you're gonna have.
So usually, corn and soybeans, you're gonna be at about four to 12 inches as your focus zone, maybe deeper for potatoes or sugar beets. You can customize all those variables so that the output of the tool is a variable depth tillage recommendation that tells you, on average, you don't need to till at all on 20 to 40% of your field to accomplish those goals. So it's not about tillage or no tillage.
It's an opportunity to reduce tillage by only tilling where you need to.
Right. That makes sense because, you know, typically if we go set a ripper or field cultivator or something, you set the depth to how you like it and you cover 100% of the field, right? But yet we treat every other acre differently. We have prescriptions for seed and fertilizer and all that kind of stuff. Why aren't we doing that? So that makes me think that we need a special tillage tool.
Great point. So there in the market today are tools that, so John Deere TruSet as well as C&H Ecolatiger are two examples of equipment suites that can ingest this data layer and automatically adjust in the field.
That being said, a lot of folks just look at the map and go out and address what the map tells them they need to address or they use our app that guides them where am I using GPS in the field and what's the recommended depth in the field if they can manually adjust and implement.
Wouldn't that be wild? You're going through the field and you've got your ripper buried and then you hit one of these zones to where it says not and it just automatically lifts out of the ground. And the tractor automatically speeds up to 9, 10 mile an hour to get to the next spot before it... Puts itself back into the ground.
It really brings it full circle because we've seen the technology and the tillage pieces, right, come from John Deere especially, one of our partners, that it's hard to like, okay, that's cool that you can do that, but how do we implement, right? Because data is great or this tool is great, but if you don't have one or the other, you have to be able to implement it.
Yeah, I think if you follow Mike and I around for a day, the phrase you'll hear on repeat is actionable insights. Everything we're doing is an actionable insight. In my undergrad, that was a phase, or maybe that phase still exists, where the word sustainability is maybe overused. But what I was taught is there's three pillars to sustainability.
There's economic sustainability, economic, ecological, and cultural or social. And all of our products hit on all three of those pillars. So if we talk about till mappers specifically, the economic benefit, if you don't till an acre, you're saving $20, $30 in diesel fuel alone. You're also saving time of labor. You're saving wear and tear on equipment.
There's a major return on investment economically. Socially, there's a factor because folks have a shorter and shorter window to address tillage in the fall. And so you can't get over every field in many operations. So this gives you a tool to help you prioritize and pick and choose which fields are most important.
time labor, but time on the equipment too, right?
On the hour meter. That's huge. And then agronomically, if you do not disturb soil that doesn't need to be disturbed, there's a huge agronomic benefit there as well.
Because you're not releasing the carbon in the soil and all that. And I suppose that's where the carbon piece comes into play because you can actually track that.
You're right. Spot on.
So are we ready to get into the carbon piece or what else do we want to dive into about this relationship here?
I think one thing we didn't cover on the agronomy front is with 360 Pro, as Mike mentioned, you're getting that biology insight, but you're also getting nutrients. So industry standard, nationwide, a little bit variable by region is about a two and a half acre grid. That means that on a hundred acre field, you're getting about 40 samples.
You're taking 40 smaller averages to get insight to variability on the field. Going back to actionable insight, our approach is different. That sensor reading shows you the variability and you need far fewer soil samples to go to the lab to get more precision and a better look at the variability and the levels of all your macronutrients, micronutrients, pH, cation exchange capacity in the field.
So what's the sensor look like?
It kind of looks like a parallel rod or stick and that's the EMI or electromagnetic induction sensor and then the ground penetrating radar sensor is basically a box.
And this is mounted typically to a side by side or?
Yep that's right right on the front of a UTV we run it on pickup trucks we run it on tractors we are working on running it on equipment that's already in the field as well.
Oh really on so it could be done potentially in the future on a piece of equipment that's already making the pass? That's right. Like the combine?
Potentially, yes. We're playing around. There's interference is a challenge to navigate. So we're trying to find the right bits.
So typical, like you said, is two and a half acre grids probably taken every four years or so. Are we doing this every year?
Well, this makes it far more economical and efficient because you're only going out into the field and pulling point samples. So you could do like a five acre grid equivalent or seven acre grid equivalent in terms of number of samples that you pull and do that on a more frequent basis. And you can reuse that same scan data for that processing step year after year.
And for the cost of a 2 1⁄2-acre grid, this doesn't cost any more, but you get 100 times the resolution in terms of the output. Why is that important? If you look at the results on a 2 1⁄2-acre grid, you get a lot of variability from one zone to another. Well, that matters when you're applying the materials, whether that be lime or whether that be phosphorus or potassium.
If you're going from one zone to another that has a 200-pound difference, that belt on the application equipment can't keep up, and so you end up either under or over applying on those zones.
When you have the resolution that we have with our nutrient product through Earth Optics, there's a smoothing factor that can happen as that equipment goes across the field, so you're getting a more accurate representation of what actually needs to go out.
This is a lot. I don't know why I haven't heard of this before. It is. Besides talking to you. What's up, Snark? That's a Dave question. Oh, maybe talking to the mic a little bit.
Okay, so one of the things that we advertised this episode of being about was using predictive analytics. So we've talked about how we're gathering this data and how we can write some prescriptions or we can get that feedback from all these data points. But what does predictive analytics mean to you guys?
I would think of it more as predictive agronomy than predictive analytics. The reason I say that is because everything that we're focused on delivering to the grower is based on agronomic practices. And so we're looking forward at what are the threats that are in that field when we do the sampling in the fall of what they're going to be facing in the spring so that they can build that crop plan.
So it's predictive agronomy in the sense that we're looking forward.
Is predictive analytics or predictive agronomy and AI the same?
Well, AI is used to develop that predictive agronomy or that plan. So you are using some artificial intelligence?
We are using machine learning, for sure.
Okay.
And are you seeing more and more producers adopt the use of this predictive analytics? Or are we still relying on yield performance from the past year and we're going to continue to use data from historical crops?
The adoption rate is pretty high, but I mean, it's still fairly new in the market. You know, we've been in the market for
about three years commercially and we're growing at a three to five x rate so we're getting on more and more acres but now that we have this collaboration on the nutrient and the tillage side and the carbon side with earth optics we're really bringing a 360 degree view of what is actually happening out on that soil so they don't have to go to one place to get nutrients.
They don't have to go to another place to get to find out about tillage. They don't have to go to multiple different places. They could go to one source and have all of their data in one place. That's a nice feature.
That's a nice feature. I think Dr. Fred Velo talks about weather is one of the largest percentages. I'm not going to say the percentage because I'd be wrong, but it's larger than anything else that affects your crop yield performance. How do you guys account for the things you can't control Like weather.
Well, Mother Nature gets a vote for sure. And so what we do is we provide the grower the risks that they're going to be facing in the market or out in the next year so that they can build the best crop plan to mitigate those risks. And then hopefully, you know, Mother Nature is going to cooperate.
Mother Nature cooperates almost as well as the timing of this tractor getting started. Have we done a recording yet to where... No, every recording is how the tractor started. That's the only way we know that it's truly a Farm Progress show.
It seems appropriate.
Yeah. Our mics are good enough. They'll hear us. So one of the things that we've been talking to our audience about is certainly as margins get tighter is we want to make sure that they have at least exposure to the latest technology, the latest abilities to make the best decisions possible.
And I didn't expect this interview to tell us so much so early on the value and the data that you can provide. When you look at the cost of this, Is this something we need to reallocate from another portion of our operation, or is there a solid ROI that comes with addressing the cost of working with the two of you?
Yes, a great question. The majority of farms nationwide are soil sampling for nutrients to some extent. So again, that two and a half acre grid industry standard, what we can do with 360 Pro, where you're getting the nutrients and the biology offering, is only a few dollars more than industry standard pricing for just the nutrient soil sampling activity.
So you're getting this new insight, you know, I'll still Mike your analogy around like, would you rather a blocky grainy black and white TV or a new high definition color one? And oh, by the way, they're almost the same price.
Oh, that's a great analogy. Definitely the high definition. We look better on the blocky, grainy one, though.
We really don't get too many objections on price. When you look at where the risks are and what you're going to gain from making the right cropping decisions, it's all about putting more bushels in the bin. Growers have never had an opportunity to see where their threats are and be able to take action on that.
So they intuitively know, look, if I can get my nutrients down to that resolution, I can be much more efficient with the fertilizer that I put out there. If I know what my pathogens are, then I can choose the right varieties and hybrids. I don't have to guess right or try to guess right anymore. And so they really look at the ROI of what am I going to get
as the outcome of this, and that is definitely worth the money that they're going to spend on it. Growers are going to spend hundreds of dollars on inputs, right? They're going to spend on tillage. They're going to spend on all of these things. All we're doing is informing on where to put that money.
So I've said it multiple times on the podcast that having the data, and you know it's good, solid data, it's not clouded by anything else, the decision is so much easier. Even if you don't want to make that decision, it's so much clearer, and having that is so important.
Yeah, data in and of itself is interesting, but if it's not actionable, then it's worthless. What we've done is we've put it in a platform where people can take action. They can look at it. Anybody can look at it and say, okay, do this for the next season and be able to make smarter decisions because you know what the risks are that are out there.
So do you have anybody using it and making in-season choices, decisions?
Yeah, what it does inform on is fungicide application and scouting. So we are picking up not just below ground pathogens, but we're picking up things like tar spot, northern corn leaf blight, gray leaf spot.
and frog eye leaf spot and soybeans and things like that and those are hugely impactful and important decisions that get need to get made fungicide applications are not inexpensive but they have to be timely and scouting is very inefficient as it is today because now we can show them where the inoculum is in the field so that they would know exactly where to go in the field and look for expression so it does inform on in-season practices
Putting myself in Dave's position here, he sells farms for a living. You know, all we have to go off of is yield monitor and old soil samples. Could that be a value of someone? Like, I'm looking at this farm and you could actually, maybe you don't do the whole field, but you could grab a, like, hey, that field is terrible. You're going to have so much disease and it's deficient in this and that.
100%.
I mean, soil is where it all starts and it's a farmer's best asset. Right.
Because in Iowa, we have CSR, CSR2, that tells you how good the soil is. You might have a 90 CSR2 ground, which everyone wants, right? That's the best soil, but it could have been, it could have the most pathogens in it and all that. Maybe you don't pay that much.
Yeah, it's the ultimate due diligence on a new piece of ground. If you're going to be picking up something to rent, you can get a soil productivity index score on that that will tell you what the potential is on that field. But it will also tell you, what do I need to do?
If I'm going to pick up this farm, what are the investments that I'm going to have to make on these fields in order to make them maximum production?
There you go, Corey, as you're chasing. is you're chasing more ground, especially, what do they call it, ambulance chaser? You know what kind of cash rent bid you can put out with more data. There you go.
What's the turnaround? I tell you that, hey, call you up, need this field done. What are you looking at?
Yeah, so we work through a dealer network on the agronomy side. And when they press the button to have this field sampled, We like to be out there within a couple of days to be sampling. That's weather dependent, obviously. We like to do it post-harvest, but we can do it really any time of the year. But the vast majority of our samples are done post-harvest.
Once the samples reach our lab in California, which is where all of the analysis is done, whether that is carbon, nutrient, or biological, nutrient is about a five to seven day turnaround. Once it reaches the lab, till mapper is actually almost immediate, isn't that right?
Yeah, it's close to a real-time product.
Yeah, very close to real-time. And then the biology takes up to about two weeks to get all of that back. Well, it's not too long.
No. I don't know what I was expecting it to be. I mean, a normal soil sample would probably be about in that same realm.
Yeah, we try to match on the nutrient side, but kind of the standard is about a five-day turnaround on that so that you can get your nutrient applications done.
So, Britt, is there an ideal farm size to where it makes sense to start working with either one of the two of you, or is it something farms of all sizes can do?
I'd say it's definitely an opportunity for firms of all sizes. This tech stack is really not just a tool for farmers, but it's also a major improvement to what the trusted advisor on the farm has available for themselves in the advising process. So Mike mentioned our partner dealer network. These are folks that we fully equip with our technology suite. We don't charge them for that.
We get a commitment for kind of the acres that they're going to support. and they just pay us for data processing and serve the market in their region.
Who's a normal dealer? Is it like a co-op retailer or can it be a farmer dealer?
Well, it could be all the above. So we have crop consultants, we have seed dealers, we have retail, and that is generally whoever the trusted advisor is that that grower goes to for building that crop plan, those are our dealers. Okay.
So those that are listening should give Mike and I a call.
Yeah, if you're interested in becoming a dealer, you should contact us.
Absolutely. We've done a couple of interviews. One of them that we did was with Boa Safra, and they have a tax credit that you can use to deduct the nutrient value of your soils. Is that a partner of yours, or has your testing been used within that type of a project?
Those are projects that we have recently had some exposure to, and there's definitely a potential opportunity there.
Very good. Let's get into the carbon side of things then. Like how does, obviously I can see how it works, but how does it?
Sure. Great question. And I'll just kind of bridge to, we just talked about the partner dealer network. Earth Optics also has our own service arm. So we've got field techs and rigs nationwide, really solid footprint. We're doing probably over 90% of the carbon sampling in grass and rangeland at scale in the carbon marketplace, as well as over 80% in cropland.
And when I say the carbon marketplace, that is a big umbrella statement. So there's the inset world, there's the offset world, there's scope three projects, CI scores, all these different things. What is a differentiator of EarthOptics is we ground truth everything we do. And so we're in the business of measuring and mapping carbon at scale.
We're the most cost effective, efficient and accurate way to do it.
So no longer is it an algorithm based or math equation based like you reduce your tillage by this percent or you quit tilling, you get this much carbon credits.
Exactly. So for a Scope 3 project, which is not a verified project, but it's something that an organization is looking at their supply chain, in that environment, to avoid greenwashing, to be really have a solid data set to prove that you are in fact sequestering carbon, which our nation's soil asset is one of our best opportunities to pull
carbon out of the atmosphere and put it in the soil long term. And farmers have a really important role in that activity. And so if a buyer of some good wants to look backwards in their supply chain and validate that the farmers in that supply chain are doing things to sequester carbon, which many are, they have an opportunity for a scope three type project.
We're the best source to help build out that project, measure it, document it.
So you're like the behind the scenes for A-Carbon. You're not paying people for... That's right.
We are not a developer. We're an MRV. So we're a measurement and verification service within programs. So in the inset world, so a verified project, we have projects at scale with Vera, with CAR, with B-Carbon, with a number of different verifiers and developers in both grass and rangeland and in cropland.
And I imagine that's pretty important probably more to the end user or the buyer of the carbon credit, right? Like they want to know that this is actually what we're buying, right?
Exactly. It's those like Fortune 100 companies who are actually pretty picky about what type of credit they want to buy because they want to put their money into something that's highly credible and they're trying to invest in offsets that are something that the market at large respects as having made an actual impact.
It also benefits the grower, though, too, because if they decide that they want to measure carbon on their properties, and then they don't do anything with that for three or four years, and then all of a sudden a carbon buyer comes along and says, If you meet these requirements, we're going to pay $50, $60, $70 a ton. Well, then they have that data.
They can go back and get paid for that carbon, you know, whatever they sequestered at that time. So it does give the grower the ultimate flexibility to shop the different carbon programs that are out there.
So is that part of your service? If they're just out there for the agronomic and want you to partner up, are you already just seeing what the carbon capture is?
Yeah, exactly. So if we're there for agronomy offerings, we can add a carbon data layer for quite a reasonable rate. Similarly, for a lot of the carbon programs that we measure for nationwide, whether it's an inset program or an offset program, we have the ability to call the grower and give them the opportunity to take a look at our agronomy tools.
I love this. Then I want to be able to put that, all right, I have 200 tons of carbon that I captured and put it on Facebook marketplace. Someone come, I want $50 a ton, you know, or whatever, or auction it off. Have Dave auction it off instead of signing up with just one.
Yeah. Well, if they've, if they've sequestered that carbon, they should have the ability to do whatever they want with it in the marketplace.
That's where blockchain will come in.
We've talked about that as well.
Yeah, I've always said that blockchain needs to be, and also just cryptocurrency in general, there needs to be a Chicago border trade for the carbon marketplace, just because it's the wild west right now.
The carbon marketplace is in its infancy, and it is the wild, wild west.
Yeah, it's even more wild than the world of podcasting. That's pretty wild. Really no rules here, exactly.
I want to back up and go, well, if we're going to get off the carbon side, I wanted to ask my, my question about the, uh, red crown rot and like, how do you know that obviously that's a, is that a bacteria? What are you looking at? It is a fungal pathogen. Okay.
Yeah, it's relatively new to the Midwest. Most growers and actually most everybody doesn't even know that it exists across the Midwest. It moved up from the Delta into the Midwest. It is really devastating, even more so than probably sudden death syndrome. It's often mistaken for sudden death syndrome in the way that it looks.
But it is something that, you know, there's one product that can be treated for an emergency exemption right now because it is such a new pathogen. But research done by University of Kentucky that I have read is that you can lose up to 60 to 70 bushel of yield in soybeans. And if you have it in the presence of a host pathogen,
Another pathogen like soybean cyst nematode, it can be complete crop loss. And so knowing that you have that, the treatment for that, the only one that's available is quite expensive. And so most people wouldn't just automatically go ahead and put that seed treatment on there.
But if you know that you have the potential to lose 60% of your yield, then yeah, you're probably going to want to spend that plus $20 for that seed treatment.
And is that like a pathogen that's in a lot of soils and then once it gets to a certain level, you're like, oh, you guys better do something about it?
No, not with red crown rot. Red crown rot is kind of a binary. It's a yes or no. Kind of like tar spot and northern corn leaf blight. We don't really put risk levels on there. We tell you that your field is infected. You need to do something about it.
I mean, there's so many microbiologicals or microbes in the soils and pathogens and all that. Like, how did you guys learn all this?
Well, so we specifically look for the ones that are robbing the biggest part of the yield. And we went out, we got really good samples of those. We DNA sequenced them. We have our own library of this DNA so that we know that what we're seeing is what we're seeing. Okay.
Wow.
So it's kind of like guilt or innocence.
Yeah.
I'm interested. It's like pass or fail. Yeah. And so we're actually doing some work with universities in the Midwest where we're identifying the fields with red crown rot so that they can then test different fungicides for efficacy.
And then I imagine the seed companies would get in and maybe start selecting for natural selection and things like that.
It's very nascent in the seed industry. So I don't know that there's been a lot of work on varietal selection for red crown rot.
So as you're sitting here on the forefront of this, how are you guys seeing what your partnership's doing, what Pattern Ag's been doing with that predictive insights, the predictive agronomy? Where's this going? What's next?
Well, really being able to build that crop plan and roll everything basically 360 degrees of what is happening in the soil, that is the ultimate power of being able to make fundamental change in agriculture. We often get asked, well, why did you start with corn and soybeans? Why didn't you start in specialty crops where you could have made a lot more money?
If you're going to fundamentally make a radical change to the benefit of the grower, it has to be in production agriculture. It has to be in corn and soybeans. It has to be in the United States. And so that's where we wanted to have the biggest impact, and that's where we're focused on. And so you ask us where we're going? I didn't know that we would be here three years ago where we are today.
But we've got this machine, this flywheel effect now between the synergies of the earth optics and pattern in looking at chemistry, biology, and the physical attributes of the soil. Who knows where we'll be in a year or two.
So walk me through the process. If I wanted to do this on my farm this fall, I would call one of your dealers, probably go to your website and find a dealer close to me, call one of them. But then am I gonna have to get them the information like, hey, I'm gonna grow corn on this farm next year or soybeans or wheat or whatever.
No, our product is agnostic to what crop is going to get planted. So when you get the results back, you're going to tell us, I'm going to plant corn and you're going to press the corn button. Okay.
So you're not changing anything that you're looking for in the soil based on crops.
You're just, you're doing it all. So we pick up everything in the soil. So there's about 10,000 different species. There's about 500 billion microbes. And it all goes up into the cloud. And we have DNA sequence the things that we're looking for. So we specifically find those things in there. And then we build that into what ends up becoming the crop plant.
I feel like right now is a good time for you to talk about robots and dark matter.
Oh, yeah, dark matter. Dark matter. Okay, so here's how much we don't know about the soil. It is the most complex microbiome on Earth. We, as I said, we pick up everything, all of the biology in the soil. About 70% of what we sequence is considered to be dark matter. which means that it has not been identified. So 70% of all the DNA that's in the soil out there has not even been identified yet.
So who's identifying it? Are you guys helping with that? Yeah, we've got people on staff that are really mining that dark matter so that we can then begin to discover additional things because there's a lot of things that happen between species, you know? So let's say you have very high levels, good levels of trichoderma and mycorrhizal fungi.
Well, the chances are high that you're going to have very lower levels of other fungal pathogens like... Rhizoctonia, Fusarium, because they make that plant healthy and they fight off those things. So there's a lot of those interactions that are going on in the soil. And so if you've got 70% that's dark matter, then we don't even know what we don't know right now.
I want to add at this point to another synergy we haven't talked about yet here today between the climate and carbon space and the agronomy space, which is that as someone who has taken part in selling biological type tools on the farm, just my experience is they work half of the time. And when they work, they really work.
One of the things that's really cool about the pattern offering is that they're able to better place biologicals after reviewing where it has worked so they can identify the DNA things that are present or not present in an environment that a biological is successful or not in. So that's taking a success rate from something like 50 to 60 percent up to 95 percent in placing a biological.
That is a big move.
And then the link with the climate and carbon space is that there's a number of biologicals that are scientifically proven to help sequester more carbon. So if we can better place those products on the right field, that's another additionality opportunity.
That's cool. So how many of these dark matters do you discover every year? Like actually go, oh, this is what this is now.
I wouldn't... Is that a patentable thing? Can you patent that stuff? Well, it could be a trade secret. Yeah, okay. Yeah, but definitely... And that's not my department. My department is belly-to-belly with the grower and helping them succeed. Would you believe this? That's not the first time I've heard that today. Belly-to-belly?
No, trade secret. I can't tell you.
It would have been funnier if it would have been belly-to-belly because I'd want to know who else said that. I just want to know how much dark matter is in you.
The human genome has been fully developed. So there are no secrets there. I don't know.
Corey's pretty special. So this has been eyeopening and I hope our listeners, I know they're going to have a lot more questions. They're probably shouting at their radio saying you should have asked this or why didn't you go deeper? Well, we kind of got caught off guard. Like it was, it went more in depth than I think we were anticipating.
So if they have questions, how best do they reach out to the two of you or somebody that can help get those answered?
So we're at earthoptics.com and pattern.egg. So those are our two websites. There's fillable forms on both of those websites to request more information or get in touch with Mike and I.
That's good. You got any more questions?
No, I don't. I'm just generally interested. I want to come out when you guys are sampling a field around the area. I want to see some of the deliverables and that kind of stuff. I think that'd be kind of cool.
We'd be happy to sit down and go through some stuff with you. That's great. Well, folks, thanks for coming over and hanging out with us this warm day. I know it can zap it out of you, but you hung out, delivered some great information.
You gave us shade and a breeze, so happy to be here.
It's the best we've had all day. That's absolutely great. So thanks again for hanging out, listeners. We appreciate you listening as well. So until next time, have a good one.
Remember, if you aren't farming for profit, you won't be farming for long.