We dig into the Rails 8 Solid Trifecta, our thoughts on why fewer developers are taking jobs at startups, and a new buzzphrase: Framework Fatigue.
This is Coda Radio, episode 604 for January 21st, 2025. Hey, friends, and welcome in to Jupyter Broadcasting's weekly talk show, taking a pragmatic look at the art and the business of software development and the world of technology. My name is Chris, and joining us right there, looking at real estate, I assume, it's our host, Mr. Dominic. Hey, Mike. Hello. Hello. How are you doing over there?
Are you taking in the scenes?
I am taking in the scenes. I am refactoring the code. Sure, sure. And I, most of all, and I think this is really the, how do you say, the important part. I don't know why I was confused about that. I am freezing my ass off from what I can only describe as a startup winter.
Yes, I was wondering if the chill had reached you. You know, because... The word is, it ain't like it used to be out there. You know, and even just a few years ago here on the show, it was a totally different scene. I mean, just imagine like when the app store was really taking off and online, you know, like blogs and web presence were really taking off.
I mean, you know, even go back to like, you know, 2013, 2014, 2015. It seemed like, oh, everybody who's cool is joining a startup and they're making like great money and they have great perks and they're getting some sort of vested schedule and they're going to have a ton of money when they cash out.
And now it sort of seems like the trends have changed and that seemingly more and more folks are looking for safer alternatives like big tech jobs and kind of critiquing the overall startup world and what it is. It's like a vibe shift.
It is a total vibe shift. And we have this article from Someone's name I'm having trouble pronouncing. You take a crack, Chris. I'm going to say just Vince. We can probably just go by his first name. Just go with Vince. Yeah, Vince. He makes a couple of claims.
Now, I think it'd be better if you ran through because I think he actually kind of misses – he gets the little boats, but he misses the giant Titanic in this. And I think you can probably guess what I'm going to say.
All right. Well, the things he focuses on is – Obviously, to people that are looking for jobs, the human cost has become more visible. We hear all these stories of burnout, people's relationships that failed because of how hard they were working, the mental health struggles people have had, just a big label of massive burnout.
And of course, you also have big tech compensation packages that have tweaked the risk-reward here. So the math is a little bit different when senior engineers can make $300,000 at an established company. Then maybe your big payout, even if it does happen, isn't so lucrative from a startup. Then there's lots of limitations with the VC model. They focus on hyper growth, often exits.
Sometimes they're real business models. Sometimes they're just a pump. And then I think also you have one of the things they say, like the number four point here, is that the industry is just getting more mature. The low-hanging fruit of the mobile web era has largely been picked. Truly innovative opportunities are harder to find. Sort of the four points they put on it.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's all basically true, right? I would even go a little harder on the mobile era. It was, I mean, it was, you know, just like, I don't know, let's say you had a land that was green and there weren't that many people there. You just kind of got it. Yeah. If you're a big opportunity there, if you're, you know, crazy enough to do it.
But he misses the Titanic, the great arrogant ship that hit an iceberg called reality. And that's, of course, interest rates, homies. That money printer. What are you guys, what are you doing? Yeah.
Oh, I can't believe I didn't think of this angle. You're right.
That's what changed. He's absolutely right on the time period. But that's the thing that changed.
Right, the easy money where the VCs got access to lots of funding dried up.
Yeah, lots of capital they wouldn't have had access to because it was just wild.
Also, if you've got less mergers and acquisitions, then there's less cash-out opportunities, so there's less incentive to invest.
It's true, but I would actually – if you think about the last 10 years of M&A for startups, exhibition, those were basically acquihires or acquired to kill in the cradle.
Yeah, I agree.
There's not a lot of like, you know, acquire and it's like its own running concern. What was the, I mean, TestFlight, right? TestFlight used to be its own company. And they were branching out into doing some pretty interesting stuff for Android. And one presumes they would have done some web stuff and whatever as they were growing as an independent business.
also they were really fun to like get around apple's code citing stuff if you needed to if you had lots of like little clients like i did but they got bought by apple and shot in the head and yeah now there's some of that original functionality but nothing like what it would have been it's so different from what it was before though i wouldn't be shocked to find out that like the test flight that apple releases is just like a totally different code base or mostly different
Because it's so ingrained into the OS, right? It uses your Apple ID. Which, again, is easier because you don't need to fuss with provisioning profiles as much. But you do lose all the Android support.
I wonder, though, say the markets get frothy again and, I don't know, in another year the interest rates come down a couple more times. I still don't think it works.
Even with easy money, having gone through several different VC-funded companies sort of through rapid succession, what I noticed is, first of all, the kind of founder that can sell and pitch to some rich person or firm and get millions of dollars in funding, they might not actually be a great product person or a great organizational person or a great leadership type person.
They're a great sales and hype person.
They're Ehrlich Bachman.
Yeah, but they often get the CEO position because they're the one that closes the deal or the one maybe has the initial idea. And they're the one that has the ego big enough to think they can go pitch it to some billionaire to cut him a check. So I think sometimes it starts just like from the very beginning, not in a stable position. But then additionally, once they get money –
It tends to get very chaotic inside these startups. You have bosses that will change out from above you and underneath you. Your very position and rank in the org chart will get moved around. Some people just find that extremely stressful and they don't like the uncertainty of it because one day you're in charge of something. The next day, somebody else is telling you what to do.
And, you know, the other reality is, is VC companies tend not always. But do tend. to hire like crazy. So there's always new folks getting onboarded who need to be brought up to speed on how to do things. You also have a natural churn rate when you're hiring a lot. You're going to have, say, you hire three people.
It might be as high as two of them don't stick, but generally one of them doesn't stick. And so then you've spent a bunch of time on that and you're constantly doing that. But additionally, the company recognizes that this is a problem and so they want to help you. And so then they're constantly iterating and investing and trying different tooling and
which means you have to constantly use different tooling and different apps to manage all of this. And it just becomes extremely, extremely messy. You're always shifting gears. And it's just really kind of a high energy pressure cooker environment. And I think some people like that. You know, some people like dynamic, high energy, high stakes.
But I think not everybody, especially as you, you know, get a little bit longer in your career. I think you start to appreciate some of the stability and predictability of a much larger company. Unless you have a particular personality type that just cannot stand large companies. You know what I mean?
So there's like fewer and fewer reasons these days to join these startups when you look at the compensation packages, when you look at all of these downsides.
Yeah.
I think it doesn't surprise me.
The only thing – I totally agree with you that we could have a second – I don't even know how you say it right. Another wave of this frothiness. I do wonder though if one big thing is going to change and that's will hiring be a vanity metric again like it was before? I have this sick feeling that the metric is going to be how few people you hire and how much you can leverage AI.
And that's going to be the flex that you can make in your investor meetings. I could be totally wrong about this.
No, I think Salesforce showed us last week. They're not a small startup, but they showed us last week how you can take a reduction in staff and turn it as an AI flex.
Exactly, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. In some ways, that would probably be better for these companies.
I mean, it would make them more like regular businesses. Now, the problem is the goal of – a startup has to get such outsized returns that they're really not like regular businesses, right? They can't make a solid couple hundred thousand, couple million dollars of profit, depending on scale, and be happy. They have to –
either go public and become one of the big big five which it doesn't seem like it's going to happen anytime soon or they have to get acquired by the big five for like a stupid amount of funny money so yeah so that's sort of dystopian because if you got if you got like the the financials that don't seem to work and then you have the staff that don't seem to want to work there as much then we're just sort of left with big tech I think that's where we're going for I think at least five years
I mean, it's where we've been. It's not new. We just had this drunk money period. But even I would argue, the drunk money, everybody's sobered up by being acquired by big tech. And now look at the layoffs. We don't have it in the show notes, but there's yet another Microsoft layoff coming. So it's Zuckerberg, right? He attends the inauguration and is laying how many people off?
It's a pretty substantial number. I think it's a thousand.
Hmm. I'm trying to run a counter argument, but I can't come up with a solid one.
And Zuck credited AI, right? He pulled, I guess he saw Mark Benioff on CNBC and was like, that bastard, I got to get in on this.
Yeah. They all will. You're right. I think you nailed it.
Yeah, we should move on from this because it's getting depressing.
It is. I keep wondering, does it mean, is it a cyclical thing? And then so once you reach this point, then you, because these tech companies don't innovate very fast, then all of a sudden you start to see a resurgence of these small companies again. Who knows? Who knows? I mean, you know, because we're looking at a snapshot in time where the cards have kind of fallen where they are.
But the deck does get reshuffled from time to time. Well, you never know. That's my positive spin on it. We'll see. I do have a little PSA. We invite you to come listen to the show live and experience the full Coder Radio, and then you get a little taste of what you get becoming a member, too. So we tend to do it on Tuesdays at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern.
If you've got a podcasting 2.0 app, I mark it pending in your feed, and also we try to update it on the Jupiter Broadcasting Calendar. Again, I just want you to be informed. It is, after all, the Eagle of Knowledge. So let's talk about the Rails 8 solid trifecta, which, okay, I'm kind of making fun of the name, but actually seems pretty great.
Here's the description that I found, and then, you know, I'll let you take it. The solid trifecta in Rails 8 simplifies development by using database adapters for tasks that have typically been handled by RAM-based solutions.
reducing complexity and cost with the kind of conceit here being that when rails started most servers and most systems were running on spinning rust, but now we've got super fast, you know, MVMEs and you can have them in a, in a rate array that makes them crazy fast. We've got memory storage. And so the cost to save certain operations to disk is a lot lower. And with that being the reality,
Looks like it opens up the door to more opportunity.
Yeah, it absolutely does. The big opportunity, the big unlock here is... So we should take a step back, right? The reason this is a big deal is Rails aims to be a developer-friendly framework that makes it relatively straightforward to get your basic CRUD, your basic this-is-a-web-app stuff done. One of the challenges that I think a lot of people struggle with in Rails is, well, caching, right?
So, you know, you don't want to hit the database every time necessarily. Make a new query every time for each request if it's the same request and nothing's changed. And, of course, queuing, right? So delay jobs. You know, Rails does not have a... I know I'm going to get... Yeah, I'm going to get shit for this, but...
there's compared to something like let's say a fast api rails doesn't really have an async story it's this is way too in the weeds but rails is basically a process model so different jobs have to run different processes kind of it's like threat there there's a million ways to do it but it's not as simple as you can get away with with fast api and let's say uh their async postgres uh pip package and
and just, you know, async IO your way to glory and like do funny, fun things like gather up a bunch of queries and put them in. I forgot the method call, but basically you gather them up and put them into a big async queue and the whole queue returns when everything's done, which is what you want, right? And they're running in parallel. Rails, let's say it struggles from that.
And there's all kinds of debugging issues with, you know, delayed jobs. It's a huge pain in the ass. You remember when Stack Overflow was a thing and people actually went to it instead of just ChatGPT?
Oh, man. Brutal.
If you search Rails questions, you're going to get a lot on delayed jobs and caching.
Yeah.
So in Rails 8, they've built in solutions for all these things, right? So you can get rid of your Redis for your real-time messaging. Because if you're chasing that, I'm building a chat app dragon, I suppose you care about this. I think it's a little silly, a little late, but okay. Solid cache. Everybody needs caching. I don't care if you say you don't need caching. You need caching. You do.
You're eventually going to need it. It's a pain in the butt to add later. You should just start with caching. And before, you still have to make hard decisions, like what caching system am I using? Where am I caching? Am I caching in memory? Do I have enough memory? If I cache in the database, how many am I on an RPM hard drive? Am I running on a good old 5400 RPMs? Is that going to take forever?
Does it defeat the purpose of caching? Not anymore. NVMe drives. Great. That's a big win there. And solid cache being built into the framework makes it a hell of a lot easier to get started with. There's very little configuration. So that's just a win. Solid queue.
same idea i'm a little more skeptical because if you're writing big large enterprise rails applications they have complicated jobs that need to be done see the problem is i don't have anything that's greenfield right now using solidq and it doesn't make sense in my opinion to start mixing and matching right to try to retrofit older applications to use it
So I do wonder, from everything I've read, and I've watched the Rails Fun Notions YouTube video on this, is there like an upper bound of complexity where solid Q starts to fall down and you're going to end up using one of the popular gem solutions? I don't know, right? Like Sidekick is a gem. Sidekick with a Q, by the way, because they're cool. They want you to know they're cool.
They could have spelled sidekick like a kick. No, they threw in a Q. They've got their gold MacBook. They've got their Chinese tea bowl that they're drinking tea out of. A bowl, mind you, not a cup. These are cool people, and they can use the wrong letter when they want to.
They probably have their AirPods in when they're not even listening to stuff.
And when they're listening, they're listening to NPR. Okay. They're very thoughtful. They sit, their hand is always in a triangle. I don't know why I'm, I'm attacking rails hipsters right now, but you know, I just, just one in particular. Yeah. So I want to try this out. I can't say that I would say, yeah, dump Sidekiq and everything for solid queue right now because I haven't done it yet.
And I worry. One of the things that Rails, I think the Rails maintainers have been working on, at least they say they have, is getting straightforward, out-of-the-box solutions that cover like 80% of the cases for things instead of relying on community gems.
i do wonder though are those just like the you know hot dogs and beans what if you have like a like i have an application we maintain that's really large and handles lots of uh very annoying little data files that come from all over process through raspberry pi it's a pain in the butt uses a bunch of uh i think it's sidekick jobs and rails that one and if there is a problem other than like you know an azure outage or something
it's almost always in one of these many, many jobs, right? That's like running every so often in the background. And there's a bunch of them, and they're complicated. So again, I want to be surprised. I want to be happy.
I don't mean to say I'm down on it, but if this really is as good as the presenter in the YouTube video, who I believe works for the Rails Foundation, is saying that this is not the trifecta from hell. This is the trifecta that's going to get the trains running on time. Get it, Rails?
Ah, I see what you did there. I like it. I'm all about taking advantage of cheaper and cheaper economical storage.
Yeah, NVMe is really cheap now. I'm not sure there's a good reason to use an RPM drive at it. Just unless you want massive storage, I suppose, and you don't need it fast. I guess, yeah. I guess if it's like – well, I guess JB could, right? Like if you're holding like archived episodes or especially the video ones.
Yeah.
What are the odds that somebody wants to watch something from 10 years ago? Maybe? Right. I don't know. I don't know how you do that, but.
Yeah, and even then, you know, it would probably serve one or two downloads decently fast.
Right, so it would be like the one guy who's like, I want to watch the first Linux action show ever. Well, he can wait like an extra 10 seconds.
Good luck finding it.
Yeah, it's probably on YouTube somewhere pirated.
Good to see, though. We'll put a link to the Rails 8 solid trifecta video in the show notes. It's not too long.
I watched it this morning myself. Yeah, there's a whole series, though, so.
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But this came up this week, posted over at blog.com. What is that? R-E-D? I can't read it quite because I'm an old man.
I read it as RAID. Yeah. What is with the cool spellings?
Well, I think we're out of good domains. I don't know. That's a .dev. I'll put a link in the show notes. Essentially, though, the summary is the rapid evolution of JavaScript frameworks, like we've talked about, has led to this rapid reoccurring cycle for developers. They discover new tech. They briefly engage with it. Then they move on, often critiquing it, but that's a side point.
And it's this constant influx of tools that strains mental bandwidth and leads to frustration within the community, which we've touched on. And, you know, there's a stress to it because some developers feel like, well, I've got to keep up so that way I'm staying competitive or maybe I have good job security, maybe I can find a new job. They fear obsolescence.
So that also creates sort of this pressure and then the negativity around when new stuff comes around. It's like, oh, great, something else I have to learn now. Ultimately, the author suggests that understanding this emotional response can actually help you lead to a more constructive discussion about technological evolutions and move beyond just knee-jerk reactions, which I think I agree with.
The framework churn aspect, I think, struck a note with me. It's something that you've talked about on the show quite a bit.
Yeah, you know, I'm kind of on the old man side with this one, right? In fact, I just want to mention, Chris, I don't know if you've heard of Xamarin. Um, no, you mean as a Marion? Exactly. Exactly. Um, that was a wild ride. And now it's, I think it's called Maui because somebody apparently got hammered and went to see Moana. I love that's the reason I'm going with that.
Even like when, before Xamarin was part of Microsoft, like I didn't make myself too many friends. I got pretty mad at one of the founders there and got a nasty email argument with him, but it was just bad. Particularly Xamarin forms because they kept, They kept changing things and breaking things. And then they're like, oh, Microsoft owns us. That's not the way to do it anymore.
Here's Xamarin, blah, blah, blah. And then there's Universal. Then I forgot the name of the interstitial one. But now they're like, it's Maui, and it's different. But it's not. But it is. Too bad. Also, if you're on the JavaScript side, how many people are using HipsterJS or EmberJS these days? Slightly less of a complete failure. People like me who loved Angular.
Yeah, not a lot of Angular going around. React kind of drowned everybody. And I still think React is bad, and I don't like it.
Here's the problem. All these things are true, and there's lots of reasons to have been burned, but... I do think, and the article touches on this as a stress point, but I do think it's kind of true. This is the part I agree with. If you become complacent towards all of the new stuff, you inevitably will miss out on something that is better, perhaps can help you work better, cheaper, etc.
Yeah, the thing is, though, right, so I think there's a couple ways to look at this. On the JavaScript side, I actually think that is the most wasteful one to keep changing. I really do. When I say I mean front-end JavaScript, right? Regular JavaScript, not Deno or Node or whatever. I'm getting in so much trouble. You know, I've been doing something in just vanilla HTML, CSS, and JavaScript.
It's like an add-on to Alice. And... It's so amazing not to have NPM, just like to refuse to use it and not to deal with all that crap. No webpacker, no frameworks. It's a much more straightforward, pleasurable development experience and a hell of a lot easier to debug. Now, am I backing myself into a complexity corner where I don't get a lot of stuff for free? Probably, right?
But with HTML components now and with ES, are we up to ES 6? 6, right? It doesn't really matter. The latest JavaScript standard that's supported by Chrome. It's really... For instance, I like Angular. I get a lot of the stuff I used to get with Angular out of the box. And the stuff I don't, I can basically just recreate on my own with a simple helper using the new JavaScript APIs.
And when I say new, I say new in sneer quotes. New is like five years old. People have just... I don't know. I get it. Everybody loves React. I know we're going to get a bunch of emails. I just... Having said that, on the back end, I think it's where you really get your gains, right? Back end and graphics development are where you get your gains. Or games, if it's graphics. Database stuff, right?
Wes, I'm sure, I don't have the chat open, tripping over himself to tell me how much faster you can return server-side requests and closure. I have no doubt he is. Oh, my God. You know those people, the really fussy ones with the claws? You know those guys? They like to fight with each other a lot.
Are you talking about?
You know the ones. They get really mad. They're good with some butter and lemon. Exactly. We're talking about rust, right? That is a genuine step forward. You know, as long as you don't think it prevents you from doing memory leaks like the thing we covered last week. So that's worth learning the new stuff. But being like, if you're writing a perfect... You know what? I'm going to defend React.
You're writing a perfectly good JavaScript front-end in React today. And, you know, I don't know. JDVance.js comes out. I think you're crazy if you invest a ton of energy into retraining on that.
when your react is probably going to run you know for the length of the next let's say 10 years and you know there's other parts of your application i presume right there's data there's maybe mobile front ends i don't know also if i recommend a technology don't pick it especially if it's mobile because you're good it's going to go be gone case in point ionic is basically dead now so
I'll channel my inner Wes. Yes, it is hammer time. And, you know, he linked us to a couple of good posts that I'll put in the show notes that are really like just strong, strong pieces that say frameworks, like the first one, frameworks are evil. How to design composable libraries and how and why to avoid callbacks in library design.
As the title suggests, this boils down to one thing, build libraries rather than frameworks, exclamation mark. Libraries instead of frameworks. There's Biff. Biff is a monolithic full-stack web framework for Clojure created by Jacob O'Brien.
And he has a quote, or there's a quote about his project that is, we want a collection of principled components built to be discarded, separated by interfaces that are built to last. So, you know, get on the library train is what my inner Wes would say. Get on the library train and, you know, Screw frameworks. I don't know. I overdid it on there at the end.
I mean, yeah, it depends on the job, right? I definitely agree. For instance, Wes turned me on to FastAPI, and when I need something quick and performance is more important than being a big, huge application. Now, I know the community there is trying to do a bunch of templates that effectively make FastAPI more like a framework, but FastAPI is basically very lightweight. it's in Python.
Everybody's sadly second favorite language because the crab people have colonized the world. Hey, man. Hey, it's a little safer at least, right? Yeah, but, you know, there's a delta between how safe you are and how the false sense of security has made you feel safe. I'm just throwing it out there.
Yeah, okay. All right. We don't need to get into last week's episode all over again. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Chris. I'm sorry. Four score and seven boosts to go. Oh, we got a nice little handful of boosts to get into. And Nostromo is our baller booster this week. He is our Rich Lobster. Hey, Rich Lobster! And he sent in 33,333 sats. Let's raise those sats totals, he says.
Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Thank you, Noster. We really appreciate that. And then Anonymous came in, much lower down on the charts, but we still really appreciate it, with 2,000 sats. And I don't know who you are, Anonymous, but let us know. Do you really want to rent a Windows VM? I have a fiber connection and would be willing. Find me in your matrix.
So wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Who is renting a VM inside a network by someone claiming to be anonymous? Ha ha ha ha ha. What could go wrong? Also, you know, I know November 5th is a long way away, but, you know, pre-celebrations.
What I was hoping to get is people's feedback on Windows as a service that you use the RDP client and is it performant and all of that. I don't know. I don't want to mess with Windows ever except for maybe every now and then. But then usually when I do, I want 3D acceleration. So I'm just a mess. Don't listen to me.
I know I could create my own Windows VMs, but then I would have to install Windows. Do you see what I'm saying? You understand? Right, and that's the core problem. That's the core problem. I don't want to install Windows, exactly. I don't even want to go through the user create. I don't know. Just run the application. Windows is a service. It's coming. You'll see. Thank you, Anonymous.
YukonAnalius is here with a Jar Jar Boost. That's 5,000 stats. You're so boost! He says that we should check out the WIIM, that's W-I-I-M streamers, instead of Sonos. I have both systems at my home, and when my Sonos stuff dies, I'll be moving everything to the WIIM. It allows you to bring your own speakers and just add a streaming module to the multi-room audio. That is nice.
That is not a bad idea.
I do have some spare speakers. They're just big, you know?
I don't love being tied to these ecosystems either.
No, no, I don't either. And our last boost this week is from Framework Fighter for a row of ducks. 2,222 sats. So it turns out all we needed was Postgres all along.
No notes, correct.
Yeah, I got no notes either. Oh, hey, look at this. And a last minute boost. I hoard that which your kind covet. From Mr. Bonkander saying, sending some bonk or some bork. Oh, okay. Mr. Borkander. Sending some bork back your way. 16,600 sats. And 69 sats. Just pump the brakes right there. Well, how about that? That changes the math right there for the episode. So thank you very much.
Last minute live booster is always very much appreciated. So it wasn't our best week. You know, we haven't had a great 2025 so far. I'm going to be honest with you. I think maybe people just think we stink. You know, maybe they just feel like we stink now. I don't know. I showered last week. I did too. Dude, I showered and I think I brushed my teeth like four days ago. So I am. Nailed it.
Yeah, I'm in good shape. We had 23 total participants in the value for value model for episode 604. 19 of you streamed sats, so we stacked 44,275 sats via our streamers. Thank you, everybody. Appreciate you out there that's just streaming them sats. And then from the boosts, thanks to our last-minute boosters, we stacked 103,799 when it's all brought together.
So the boosts by themselves were 59,000. Bring it all together, 103,799 sats. For good luck, I'm going to play the Sequest theme one more time. I think maybe this is what wrecked it. I'm going to say this is the test. If the boosts are bad next week, we'll know it's this. Now, if you'd like to boost, we'll have some links in our show notes to make it possible.
You can get the Strike app in over 110 countries. If you're in Canada or the U.S., Bitcoin well slash Jupiter, and it'll send the stats right to your wallet. Fountain FM is a fully hosted way to get going, makes it really easy, but there's self-hosted options as well at podcastapps.com. Thank you, everybody who supported this episode with a boost. It means a lot to us.
I thought this was kind of interesting. So Hewlett Packard Enterprise, you know, HPE. is being investigated for claims known by a group as Intel Broker, a hacker group, Intel Broker, who alleges they've breached HPE's developer environments and obtained sensitive data. And this group has kind of a history. They've breached other organizations.
The stolen archive reportedly includes, you ready for this? It's a good one. It's a good one. Source code to HPE's projects. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And Docker builds. Uh-huh, uh-huh. SAP hybrid data. I don't know what that is, but the one that really stings. Their certs, both public and private keys. Aye, aye, aye, sword on. Yep.
Also, allegedly compromised product data includes their ILO source code for remote server management, as well as potentially credentials to the WePay, GitHub, and other platforms, as well as internal APIs. Yep. HPE says they've immediately activated a cyber response protocol, rotated credentials, and launched an investigation, but they have not found any evidence.
That sounds like something you see on NCIS, wherever the hell HP is. We activate the cyber protocols, agent. What does that mean?
Is this the show? Did you just come up with a show idea? There must be NCS Cyber Edition, right?
Oh, there probably is. There's like NCIS Bumblefuck Alabama. I mean, come on.
I'm going to reroute the operating system into the secondary disk and then we'll boot from that and we'll unload the compromise and bring back the original environment. That's how they talk. Intel Broker has been linked to cyber attacks on other organizations such as DC Health Link, Nokia, Cisco, Equity, Panabai, and Europool. Wow. Apparently they've been active since October of 2022.
No confirmed evidence of the breach yet from HPE, but they continue to monitor the situation closely. Look at these go-getters. I know, right? Ah, the wrong biz, Mike. We picked the wrong biz. But also, HP?
I guess HP Enterprise has some valuable stuff. Yeah. Notice nobody's hacking regular HP.
Dude, it'd be worth it just for the Lilo stuff alone. Those cards are built into servers all around the world.
Yeah. Actually, there's probably a bunch of government stuff that runs in HP.
Oh, for sure.
Yeah. Although, if you hack regular HP... You hack in. I'm not condoning felonies here, but this is more of a public service. You delete the repo for their launcher and somehow send an update to all the other launchers that deletes them. And you will have done every fool who went to a best buying got tricked into buying an HP laptop a wonderful service by giving them a gig of their RAM back.
All right. I got a question for the audience. If you made it this far, boost in with the most ridiculous corporate policy that you've had to deal with. You know, we were talking about working for big companies or startups. The big companies have their stability, but they definitely have their downside.
So make me feel better about my small business and boost in with the craziest corporate policies that you've had to deal with. We can redact your name if you prefer. Let us know. I think that could be fun next week.
Right.
Or NCIS Cyber, based out of Bumblef***, Arizona. I'm sorry, Alabama? Is that what I said the first time? Alabama? Yeah, I think. Yeah, that's better.
I think Alabama would be better, yeah. You got anywhere you want to send the good people?
I'll go to alex.dev if you need some automation. It's taking me 4,000 years to finish this Alex extension because people keep wanting to pay me to do their stuff, and that is definitely more important.
Good problem to have.
But when it comes out, there will be a hefty code or discount, so...
Good to keep an ear out for. You can follow me on the wild side of the internet over at chrislas.com or over on Weapon X. The podcast here is at Coder Radio Show. You know what, though? Screw the social medias, you know? Screw them. Well, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go to coder.show, and you can go to slash 604, get the links for the stuff we talked about.
There's some good links, some good reading in there. including the stuff I found while channeling Wes Payne, as well as the YouTube video we mentioned earlier and links to help you boost in if you'd like to do that. Don't forget we're also live next week at our regular time. It should be noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern over at coder.show slash live.
You can also just plug jblive.fm into like a web browser when we're live. and it'll just tune it in. Turns out it's really easy. It's just an MP3 stream. You're also going to find our contact form and our RSS feed, because we'd love it if you'd listen weekly. Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of the Coder Radio Program, and we'll see you right back here next week.