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Class with Mason

Chapter II: Terroristic Nature of the Marxist States

Wed, 22 Jan 2025

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Complementary notes: https://www.classwithmason.com/2025/01/chapter-ii-terroristic-nature-of.html

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0.069 - 5.69 Mason

All right. So buckle up, everyone, because we're about to take a deep dive into some seriously heavy history.

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5.79 - 7.03 Host

Yeah, this is going to be a wild one.

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7.07 - 10.951 Mason

We're cracking open chapter two of Guillotine at Work by Gregory Maximoff.

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11.251 - 12.492 Host

Oh, Maximoff.

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12.652 - 17.873 Mason

This chapter, man, it it really delves into those early days of the Bolshevik state in Russia.

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18.113 - 20.253 Host

How it all began, how it was established.

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20.433 - 26.141 Mason

You know, what's fascinating is how Maximoff pulls back the curtain. On Lenin's actions.

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26.241 - 29.083 Host

Yeah. And compares them to like the writings of Marx and Engels.

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29.283 - 31.324 Mason

And you might be surprised by what he reveals.

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31.444 - 32.625 Host

A lot of people are. Yeah.

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32.685 - 36.527 Mason

So, you know, right off the bat, Maximoff kind of throws us into this.

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36.607 - 37.828 Host

He throws you right in.

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37.848 - 40.79 Mason

Yeah. He highlights this contradiction with Lenin.

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41.01 - 42.971 Host

Like Lenin's this champion of the people, right?

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43.091 - 43.331 Mason

Yeah.

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43.491 - 46.432 Host

Praising those democratic ideals of the Paris commune.

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46.452 - 49.834 Mason

But then you see what he's actually aiming for. Yeah. Something far more centralized.

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49.914 - 51.154 Host

Like almost authoritarian.

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51.194 - 51.454 Mason

Yeah.

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51.715 - 55.296 Host

And what Maximoff does so well is use quotes.

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Direct quotes.

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56.797 - 62.659 Host

From Marx himself, like way back in 1850. When he was addressing the union of communists.

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63.019 - 75.382 Mason

And he drops this bomb on us. The workers should strive not only for a single and undivided German republic, but the most vigorous centralization of power in the hands of the state.

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75.442 - 77.322 Host

It's like, whoa, hold on a sec.

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77.563 - 79.223 Mason

That doesn't sound very power to the people.

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79.463 - 79.904 Host

Not quite.

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80.084 - 84.906 Mason

So Marx is actually advocating for a super strong centralized state.

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85.131 - 90.934 Host

Well, this quote really reveals a major tension brewing within socialist thought at the time.

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91.034 - 91.414 Mason

Oh, I bet.

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91.454 - 97.356 Host

You had groups like the Communards who were all about that like grassroots democracy, that decentralized vision.

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97.376 - 98.477 Mason

Yeah, keeping it local.

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98.617 - 104.019 Host

But Marx and Engels and later Lenin, they believed that a powerful centralized state.

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104.039 - 104.88 Mason

It was the only way.

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The only way to like truly achieve revolution.

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107.932 - 109.393 Mason

So Lenin's not pulling this out of thin air.

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109.913 - 111.914 Mason

He's building on ideas that were already there.

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112.214 - 114.955 Host

Oh, yeah. It was a foundation laid by Marx himself.

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115.096 - 118.117 Mason

Which brings us to that phrase that always sends chills down my spine.

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118.477 - 119.318 Host

I know what you're going to say.

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119.518 - 121.058 Mason

The dictatorship of the proletariat.

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121.319 - 122.579 Host

Oh, man, it's a doozy.

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122.879 - 129.303 Mason

And Maximoff just hits us with this direct quote from Lenin describing it as a power unbound by laws.

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130.023 - 131.284 Host

Not ominous at all, right?

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131.664 - 132.044 Mason

Not at all.

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132.369 - 141.296 Host

But what's so chilling is how this phrase, straight from Marx and Engels, it became the bedrock for the Bolsheviks' increasingly harsh actions.

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141.896 - 142.937 Mason

So it was like a blank check.

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143.257 - 148.241 Host

Yeah, to silence anyone they considered an enemy of the revolution. And remember, this is the time.

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148.381 - 150.523 Mason

Everyone remembers the czarist autocracy.

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151.044 - 151.444 Host

Oh, yeah.

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152 - 153.021 Mason

So to hear Lenin.

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153.181 - 155.464 Host

The supposed champion of the people.

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155.744 - 157.065 Mason

Echoing those same tones.

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157.165 - 158.487 Host

Must have been jarring.

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158.627 - 159.728 Mason

Yeah, jarring is a good word.

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159.828 - 160.729 Host

To say the least.

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160.829 - 166.895 Mason

And Max Moff, he really drives home this point that Lenin didn't just target, you know, those usual suspects.

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167.055 - 167.436 Host

Oh, no.

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167.456 - 168.697 Mason

The capitalists, the Lando.

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168.737 - 170.619 Host

No, he cast a much wider net.

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Anyone who disagreed with him.

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even other socialist and anarchist groups.

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174.262 - 175.103 Mason

It's crazy.

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175.263 - 181.368 Host

So this is where Maximoff's distinction between enemies and adversaries becomes so important.

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181.448 - 182.669 Mason

I was just going to ask you about that.

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182.689 - 183.889 Host

You're on a roll today.

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183.91 - 185.271 Mason

So enemies we get.

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185.391 - 187.012 Host

Yeah, the classic class enemy.

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187.172 - 189.114 Mason

But adversaries is broader.

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189.874 - 190.475 Host

Much broader.

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190.535 - 191.976 Mason

Like anyone who dared to question.

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192.29 - 195.031 Host

Yeah, even if they were kind of fighting for similar goals.

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195.211 - 196.372 Mason

It's like this family feud.

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196.692 - 197.472 Host

Turned deadly.

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197.612 - 202.935 Mason

And Maximoff gives us these truly terrifying examples. Doesn't hold back. He talked about April 1918.

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203.775 - 207.417 Host

When the Bolsheviks straight up attacked anarchist organizations.

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207.657 - 210.198 Mason

They trashed headquarters, shut down newspapers.

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210.798 - 212.159 Host

Even assassinated leaders.

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212.339 - 213.459 Mason

And it didn't stop there, right?

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213.679 - 219.962 Host

Nope. A couple of months later, they kicked the social revolutionists and social democrats out of the Soviets.

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220.267 - 221.928 Mason

Those are rival socialist parties.

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222.188 - 223.889 Host

You're either with us or against us.

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224.089 - 228.431 Mason

And if you were against them, well, things could get really bad, really fast.

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228.551 - 229.331 Host

Yeah, no kidding.

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229.351 - 232.233 Mason

So this wasn't just, you know, theoretical debates.

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No, real world consequences.

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233.493 - 235.354 Mason

They were silencing dissent with violence.

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235.654 - 238.155 Host

Maximoff makes that connection to the French Revolution.

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238.435 - 242.097 Mason

Oh, yeah. He's saying Lenin saw the guillotine as a blueprint.

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242.277 - 247.78 Host

Not just admired the Jacobins, but saw terror as a necessary tool for revolutionary success.

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248.43 - 254.833 Mason

It's like that saying, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, but on a way bigger and more terrifying scale.

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255.093 - 259.795 Host

Yeah. Maximoff reveals Lenin's plan went beyond just executions.

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260.095 - 264.016 Mason

Hold on. He advocated for what he called terror by starvation.

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264.637 - 266.577 Host

Using the state's control over food?

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266.958 - 268.658 Mason

To crush any form of resistance.

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268.698 - 270.559 Host

It's where things get especially dark.

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270.779 - 271.379 Mason

That's messed up.

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271.62 - 274.421 Host

One of the areas where Maximoff's analysis really stands out.

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274.641 - 277.482 Mason

So for Lenin, the guillotine was just one tool.

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278.041 - 285.003 Host

Among many, he believed he had discovered an even more potent weapon. Control over the basic necessities of life.

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285.344 - 286.624 Mason

Instead of cutting off people's heads.

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286.904 - 288.265 Host

He was trying to control their stomachs.

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288.525 - 290.105 Mason

And everyone's got to eat. Right.

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290.345 - 292.906 Host

Makes terror by starvation so chilling.

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293.106 - 294.227 Mason

So if you were hungry.

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294.367 - 294.987 Host

And complaining.

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295.027 - 296.267 Mason

You were an enemy of the state.

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296.608 - 297.068 Host

Could be.

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297.208 - 299.429 Mason

That's insane. How could anyone think that was a good idea?

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299.689 - 306.171 Host

Well, Maximoff quotes Lenin extensively on this. And it's in these quotes where we see the truly terrifying logic.

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306.607 - 309.411 Mason

So the gray monopoly, bread cards, forced labor.

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309.611 - 313.156 Host

More powerful tools of control than any law or execution.

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313.561 - 321.384 Mason

You're kidding. He's basically saying that starving people into submission is more effective than the guillotine. That's the logic. This is blowing my mind.

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321.564 - 326.626 Host

And remember, this was a time of massive food shortages, skyrocketing inflation.

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326.727 - 327.707 Mason

People were desperate.

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327.927 - 332.889 Host

Lenin's terror by starvation wasn't about literally starving everyone to death.

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333.689 - 339.752 Host

It was about using the state's control over food distribution to reward loyalty and punish dissent.

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340.12 - 344.481 Mason

So it was a way to create a system where people were so dependent on the state.

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344.561 - 345.782 Host

They wouldn't dare challenge it.

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345.922 - 348.343 Mason

That's a level of control that's hard to wrap your head around.

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348.363 - 352.724 Host

It was about transforming the very act of eating into a political act.

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352.864 - 355.045 Mason

Hold on. I need a minute to process all this.

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355.125 - 356.045 Host

It's a lot to take in.

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356.265 - 362.747 Mason

We've gone from praising the Paris Commune to terror by starvation in what feels like 10 minutes.

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362.947 - 365.008 Host

Maximoff takes us on quite a journey.

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365.359 - 373.245 Mason

It's like looking into the abyss of history and seeing how this idealistic vision for a better society can twist into something monstrous.

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373.465 - 374.786 Host

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

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374.886 - 375.587 Mason

Oh, no, there's more.

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375.967 - 391.819 Host

Maximoff goes on to show how this system of control, this terror by starvation, had devastating consequences for the Russian people and laid the groundwork for even greater horrors. But we'll save that for the next part of our deep dive. Buckle up, because it's about to get even more intense.

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392.415 - 393.476 Mason

I don't know if I'm ready for this.

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393.696 - 401.36 Host

Oh, you will be. So we left off talking about this terror by starvation and how it created this system of control.

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401.541 - 402.641 Mason

Yeah, pretty messed up stuff.

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402.841 - 415.469 Host

It really was. And you know what's wild is it wasn't just about punishing active resistance. Maximoff, he digs into this idea of passive resistance that Lenin was obsessed with.

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415.529 - 419.927 Mason

Passive resistance. So like not being revolutionary enough.

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419.947 - 425.571 Host

Basically, yeah, Lenin claims that the most harmful and dangerous kind of resistance.

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425.591 - 427.532 Mason

So not actively rebelling, but like.

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427.652 - 429.513 Host

Just not being fully on board with the program.

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429.733 - 430.673 Mason

Not being productive enough.

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430.693 - 432.114 Host

Yeah. Not meeting those quotas.

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432.354 - 433.995 Mason

That's what sent Lenin into a frenzy.

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434.336 - 436.577 Host

Oh, yeah. That's some serious thought control, right?

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436.837 - 442 Mason

It really is. Like you could get in trouble just for not being sufficiently enthusiastic about the revolution.

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442.12 - 445.582 Host

I mean, it sounds crazy, but that's what Maximoff is showing us.

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446.4 - 454.324 Mason

So this wasn't just some abstract concept. Bro, not at all. Maximoff gives some concrete examples of how this terror by starvation actually played out.

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454.524 - 459.467 Host

Oh, absolutely. And this is where Maximoff's attention to historical detail really shines.

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459.867 - 461.328 Mason

He was living through this stuff.

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461.508 - 465.05 Host

Exactly. He wasn't just theorizing from some ivory tower.

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465.43 - 468.772 Mason

He talked about how Lenin specifically targeted the peasantry.

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468.872 - 472.454 Host

Especially those who refused to sell their grain at the state's fixed prices.

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472.776 - 475.419 Mason

But those prices were often way below market value.

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475.8 - 477.062 Host

Terrible deal for the farmers.

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477.162 - 479.625 Mason

So the peasants were getting squeezed from both sides.

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479.705 - 480.186 Host

Pretty much.

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480.426 - 486.494 Mason

Forced to sell their grain at a loss. And if they resisted, they were labeled as enemies of the people.

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486.594 - 488.176 Host

You got it, Liz Liu's situation.

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488.686 - 489.887 Mason

And Lenin didn't hold back.

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490.187 - 491.848 Host

No, he went all in on the rhetoric.

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491.988 - 495.91 Mason

Called those resisting peasants enemies of the people, friends of the capitalists.

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496.13 - 497.331 Host

He was demonizing them.

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497.471 - 498.931 Mason

Painting a target on their backs.

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499.392 - 499.952 Host

Literally.

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500.172 - 504.274 Mason

But weren't the peasants supposed to be like the backbone of the revolution?

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504.554 - 505.355 Host

You would think so, right?

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505.595 - 507.736 Mason

The proletariat that Lenin claimed to be fighting for?

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508.036 - 511.498 Host

Well, that's the glaring contradiction that Maximoff highlights.

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511.789 - 514.692 Mason

The state claiming to be acting in the name of the proletariat.

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514.772 - 519.376 Host

But then alienating and antagonizing vast segments of the population.

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519.716 - 521.418 Mason

Even the workers they claim to represent.

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521.761 - 523.923 Host

Yeah, it's kind of mind-boggling when you think about it.

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523.963 - 524.843 Mason

My head is spinning.

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525.043 - 525.964 Host

It's a lot to process.

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526.084 - 527.725 Mason

To go after your own base of support.

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527.785 - 529.306 Host

Seems incredibly short-sighted.

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529.847 - 530.487 Mason

It really does.

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530.647 - 536.472 Host

And it gets worse. Maximoff describes how Lenin unleashes these committees of poor peasants.

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536.752 - 537.692 Mason

The Combides, right?

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537.712 - 538.713 Host

Yep, those guys.

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538.893 - 540.094 Mason

To enforce these policies.

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540.194 - 544.257 Host

They were given free reign to confiscate grain and crush any resistance.

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544.417 - 547.76 Mason

Wait, so he was pitting the poor peasants against the more successful ones.

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547.88 - 549.501 Host

You know it, classic divide and conquer.

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549.867 - 551.428 Mason

Talk about a recipe for disaster.

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551.528 - 556.552 Host

It was a recipe for chaos. The Combides, they often used incredibly brutal tactics.

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556.572 - 558.634 Mason

Which only provoked more peasant revolts.

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559.034 - 562.657 Host

The whole thing backfired spectacularly. The government eventually had to disband them.

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562.877 - 564.319 Mason

But the damage was already done.

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564.539 - 567.521 Host

Oh, yeah. The seeds of distrust and resentment had been sown.

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567.641 - 573.586 Mason

It's starting to feel like a horror movie where the monster is not some external threat, but the revolution itself.

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573.982 - 577.225 Host

And that's precisely the chilling point Maximoff is driving at.

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577.365 - 580.307 Mason

It's like this inherent tendency toward authoritarianism.

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580.448 - 582.449 Host

This urge to control and punish.

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582.609 - 586.633 Mason

Daked into the very DNA of the Marxist state as Lenin envisioned it.

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586.773 - 590.236 Host

He saw it as the only way to achieve true revolution.

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590.436 - 594.239 Mason

But hold on a sec. Didn't the Bolsheviks actually abolish the death penalty initially?

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594.519 - 597.462 Host

They did. Yeah. Maximoff even mentions that in the chapter.

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597.958 - 603.204 Mason

So how do we square that with this whole idea of them being obsessed with violence and terror?

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603.404 - 606.547 Host

Well, that's one of the things that makes Maximoff's argument so compelling.

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606.627 - 609.851 Mason

He doesn't shy away from these seemingly contradictory details.

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609.991 - 612.493 Host

In fact, he uses them to strengthen his case.

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612.814 - 615.937 Mason

Okay, I'm intrigued. So how does he explain that whole death penalty thing?

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616.157 - 619.581 Host

Well, Maximoff suggests that Lenin was a very shrewd politician.

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619.963 - 621.363 Mason

He was a master strategist.

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621.443 - 625.285 Host

He knew that openly advocating for terror would have been a really bad look.

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625.365 - 627.225 Mason

Especially after the czar had been overthrown.

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627.265 - 629.506 Host

People were yearning for peace and justice.

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629.826 - 630.666 Mason

Not more bloodshed.

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630.826 - 634.827 Host

Right. So Maximoff is arguing that it was all part of a deliberate strategy.

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634.847 - 639.789 Mason

So it was a calculated move to gain power by appealing to these democratic ideals.

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640.265 - 644.809 Host

But with the intention of ditching those ideals once in control.

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645.309 - 647.031 Mason

Wow. Talk about playing the long game.

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647.211 - 654.558 Host

And to back this up, Maximoff points to the gradual escalation of repression and violence that followed the Bolshevik takeover.

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654.778 - 659.282 Mason

It's like they were intentionally acclimating the population to increasing levels of brutality.

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659.942 - 660.823 Host

That's a chilling thought.

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661.063 - 665.227 Mason

It really is. But was there any pushback from within the Bolshevik ranks?

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665.672 - 668.094 Host

Oh, there were definitely internal debates and disagreements.

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668.214 - 671.577 Mason

So not everyone was on board with this descent into authoritarianism.

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671.817 - 677.322 Host

Not at all. Maximoff even quotes Lenin lashing out at fellow Bolsheviks who questioned his methods.

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677.382 - 677.942 Mason

What did he say?

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678.222 - 680.284 Host

Called them soft, sentimental.

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680.744 - 681.965 Mason

So much for comradely debate.

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682.125 - 683.466 Host

No tolerance for dissent.

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683.867 - 684.948 Mason

Even from his own comrades.

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685.428 - 694.015 Host

And Maximoff argues that this intolerance, this inability to brook any opposition, was a key factor in the Bolshevik state's rapid slide into tyranny.

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694.485 - 698.306 Mason

He uses that slaveholder democracy analogy to drive this point home, right?

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698.326 - 699.687 Host

Yeah, that one's a real head scratcher.

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699.767 - 702.308 Mason

It's such a powerful image. What exactly did he mean by that?

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702.488 - 708.75 Host

Well, Maximoff is arguing that just as ancient slaveholders could practice a form of democracy amongst themselves.

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708.91 - 711.411 Mason

While brutally exploiting an entire class of people.

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711.832 - 717.754 Host

Exactly. So, too, could the Bolsheviks claim to be establishing a proletarian democracy.

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718.274 - 723.256 Mason

While simultaneously crushing any form of dissent or opposition from the masses.

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723.783 - 729.229 Host

Basically saying that this dictatorship of the proletariat was really just a dictatorship in disguise.

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729.249 - 731.571 Mason

The proletariat was more enslaved than liberated.

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731.831 - 738.398 Host

That's the heart of Maximoff's argument. And he supports it by showing how this system inevitably turned almost everyone into an adversary.

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738.919 - 742.443 Mason

So even the workers, the people this whole revolution was supposedly for.

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742.683 - 744.445 Host

They ended up being victims of the system.

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744.565 - 746.487 Mason

It's like the revolution devoured its own children.

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746.849 - 748.07 Host

A tragic irony.

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748.25 - 752.013 Mason

But wait, if this dictatorship of the proletariat was such a sham.

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752.253 - 754.455 Host

Why did Lenin cling to it so fiercely?

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754.575 - 758.478 Mason

Right. Why not just come out and say, look, we're in charge now. Do things our way or else.

0
💬 0

758.959 - 762.041 Host

Maximoff doesn't really delve into the psychology of Lenin.

0
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762.241 - 762.621 Mason

Fair enough.

0
💬 0

762.842 - 769.387 Host

But he does suggest that this rhetoric of proletarian dictatorship served a crucial ideological function.

0
💬 0

769.85 - 773.611 Mason

So it allowed them to maintain this veneer of legitimacy.

0
💬 0

773.671 - 776.112 Host

To claim that they were acting on behalf of the working class.

0
💬 0

776.392 - 780.873 Mason

Even as they were actively suppressing any expression of working class dissent.

0
💬 0

781.073 - 784.934 Host

It's a brilliant strategy in a way, but also incredibly cynical.

0
💬 0

785.054 - 786.654 Mason

And devastatingly effective.

0
💬 0

786.734 - 790.235 Host

By wrapping themselves in the language of revolution and liberation.

0
💬 0

790.315 - 793.256 Mason

They were able to consolidate their power and crush their opponents.

0
💬 0

793.436 - 796.517 Host

With a ruthlessness that shocked even some of their own supporters.

0
💬 0

796.971 - 798.712 Mason

It's like they were masters of propaganda.

0
💬 0

798.972 - 805.415 Host

Using language to manipulate and control people just as effectively as they used the terror by starvation.

0
💬 0

805.776 - 813.22 Mason

This is getting seriously dark. But I can't help but be fascinated by how Maximoff weaves this complex narrative together.

0
💬 0

813.42 - 815.141 Host

He's a masterful storyteller.

0
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815.401 - 818.643 Mason

It's making me rethink everything I thought I knew about the Russian Revolution.

0
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818.923 - 820.524 Host

That's the power of good history.

0
💬 0

820.764 - 823.145 Mason

And Maximoff doesn't stop there. He goes even further.

0
💬 0

823.376 - 829.7 Host

He suggests that this tendency towards authoritarianism wasn't just a product of Lenin's personality.

0
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830.36 - 832.782 Mason

Or the specific circumstances of the Russian Revolution.

0
💬 0

833.122 - 837.405 Host

He sees it as a fundamental flaw in the very ideology of Marxism itself.

0
💬 0

837.605 - 840.327 Mason

So is he saying that Marx and Engels were proto-tyrants?

0
💬 0

841.127 - 842.308 Host

I don't think he'd go that far.

0
💬 0

842.368 - 845.15 Mason

That their ideas inevitably lead to dictatorship.

0
💬 0

845.68 - 846.881 Host

That's a debate for another time.

0
💬 0

846.901 - 847.761 Mason

Okay, fair enough.

0
💬 0

847.961 - 850.943 Host

But Maximoff certainly raises some provocative questions.

0
💬 0

851.083 - 853.485 Mason

About the inherent dangers of utopian thinking.

0
💬 0

853.565 - 857.247 Host

And the seductive allure of absolute power.

0
💬 0

857.547 - 859.469 Mason

Even when wielded in the name of the people.

0
💬 0

859.749 - 861.03 Host

Right, that's the key point.

0
💬 0

861.05 - 863.711 Mason

This is getting really heavy. I need a moment to process all of this.

0
💬 0

863.771 - 864.852 Host

We've covered a lot of ground.

0
💬 0

865.172 - 872.957 Mason

From the guillotine to terror by starvation to slaveholder democracy to the very nature of Marxist thought.

0
💬 0

873.379 - 875.362 Host

Our brains have definitely gotten a workout today.

0
💬 0

875.583 - 876.424 Mason

But we're not done yet.

0
💬 0

876.444 - 877.706 Host

Well, no, there's more to come.

0
💬 0

877.946 - 881.252 Mason

Maximoff's analysis is just so rich and thought-provoking.

0
💬 0

881.632 - 882.213 Host

It really is.

0
💬 0

882.836 - 885.717 Mason

So are you ready to delve into the final part of our deep dive?

0
💬 0

885.857 - 886.877 Host

Absolutely. Let's do it.

0
💬 0

887.017 - 889.838 Mason

We'll explore the long term consequences of Lenin's vision.

0
💬 0

890.018 - 892.018 Host

And the chilling legacy he left behind.

0
💬 0

892.038 - 897.68 Mason

All right. So we're back and I'm still processing all that stuff about terror by starvation.

0
💬 0

897.78 - 898.96 Host

Yeah, it's heavy stuff.

0
💬 0

899.22 - 903.621 Mason

Maximoff really lays it out. You know, those connections between ideology and action.

0
💬 0

903.941 - 906.662 Host

Like how those theories of Marx and Engels.

0
💬 0

906.782 - 908.162 Mason

Actually played out in the real world.

0
💬 0

908.302 - 911.103 Host

The brutal reality of that early Bolshevik state.

0
💬 0

911.331 - 913.372 Mason

But I feel like we've only just scratched the surface.

0
💬 0

913.752 - 915.372 Host

Oh, we've got more to uncover.

0
💬 0

915.492 - 918.993 Mason

Because Maximoff takes us beyond just those immediate consequences.

0
💬 0

919.173 - 920.794 Host

Right. He wants us to see the bigger picture.

0
💬 0

920.934 - 925.755 Mason

That this wasn't just some like phase or, you know, necessary evil on the road to utopia.

0
💬 0

926.055 - 929.876 Host

Exactly. He's arguing that this descent into authoritarianism.

0
💬 0

930.276 - 931.316 Mason

It was baked into the case.

0
💬 0

931.336 - 932.117 Host

From the very beginning.

0
💬 0

932.137 - 935.138 Mason

So he's saying this wasn't just a case of good intentions gone wrong.

0
💬 0

935.298 - 937.078 Host

It was a flaw in the system itself.

0
💬 0

937.238 - 938.479 Mason

That's a bold claim.

0
💬 0

938.679 - 943.42 Host

It is. But he backs it up by looking at the long term consequences.

0
💬 0

943.5 - 944.32 Mason

Of Lenin's approach.

0
💬 0

944.46 - 946.561 Host

That obsession with centralized control.

0
💬 0

946.681 - 949.262 Mason

Always needing to find and eliminate adversaries.

0
💬 0

949.602 - 955.187 Host

Created a culture of fear and suspicion that poisoned Soviet society for decades.

0
💬 0

955.427 - 960.152 Mason

So like that terror by starvation mentality just seeped into everything.

0
💬 0

960.212 - 962.394 Host

Absolutely. Maximoff gives all these historical examples.

0
💬 0

962.454 - 963.155 Mason

Of how this system.

0
💬 0

963.395 - 967.158 Host

Created a climate where anyone could be accused of being an enemy of the state.

0
💬 0

967.178 - 968.179 Mason

It's the slightest thing.

0
💬 0

968.459 - 972.703 Host

It was a system that rewarded informers and encouraged people to turn on each other.

0
💬 0

972.904 - 974.065 Mason

So you couldn't trust anyone.

0
💬 0

974.245 - 975.186 Host

Not even your own family.

0
💬 0

975.626 - 976.467 Mason

That's terrifying.

0
💬 0

976.507 - 978.568 Host

That's the whole point Maximoff is trying to get across.

0
💬 0

978.768 - 982.25 Mason

This system, the dictatorship of the proletariat.

0
💬 0

982.41 - 984.952 Host

It ended up devouring not only its enemies.

0
💬 0

985.332 - 986.533 Mason

But its own children too.

0
💬 0

986.673 - 987.914 Host

A truly tragic outcome.

0
💬 0

988.314 - 995.658 Mason

I'm still grappling with this idea that Maximoff sees this authoritarianism as inherent to the Marxist state itself.

0
💬 0

995.879 - 997.74 Host

It's a provocative argument for sure.

0
💬 0

998.26 - 1003.322 Mason

So is he saying that any attempt to build a socialist society is doomed to fail?

0
💬 0

1003.502 - 1008.463 Host

Well, Maximoff doesn't explicitly state that. But he does raise some serious questions.

0
💬 0

1008.603 - 1009.824 Mason

About absolute power.

0
💬 0

1010.244 - 1012.744 Host

Even when it's pursued in the name of noble goals.

0
💬 0

1013.285 - 1016.346 Mason

Like it makes you wonder if there's any other way to achieve those goals.

0
💬 0

1016.406 - 1019.426 Host

Those ideals of equality and justice.

0
💬 0

1019.486 - 1021.527 Mason

Without resorting to these brutal tactics.

0
💬 0

1021.607 - 1022.207 Host

It's a riddle.

0
💬 0

1022.227 - 1024.228 Mason

A philosophical one with really high stakes.

0
💬 0

1024.818 - 1029.02 Host

What Maximoff does so brilliantly is make us confront these questions.

0
💬 0

1029.18 - 1030.841 Mason

Grapple with the complexities of history.

0
💬 0

1031.001 - 1036.683 Host

And the potential for even the most well-intentioned ideologies to be twisted into instruments of oppression.

0
💬 0

1037.343 - 1039.724 Mason

I'm starting to see why this chapter really had an impact on you.

0
💬 0

1040.105 - 1044.106 Host

It's not just about the Russian Revolution. It's about understanding the dynamics of power.

0
💬 0

1044.206 - 1045.847 Mason

And the dangers of utopian thinking.

0
💬 0

1045.987 - 1048.188 Host

It's about recognizing the warning signs.

0
💬 0

1048.528 - 1049.148 Mason

The red flag.

0
💬 0

1049.288 - 1052.69 Host

That can indicate when a revolution is veering off course.

0
💬 0

1053.311 - 1056.794 Mason

So are you saying we should be wary of all revolutions?

0
💬 0

1057.114 - 1057.974 Host

I wouldn't go that far.

0
💬 0

1058.154 - 1062.017 Mason

That any attempt to overthrow the existing order is bound to end in tyranny?

0
💬 0

1062.598 - 1063.418 Host

Not necessarily.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

1064.279 - 1067.561 Host

But Maximoff does make us think twice about revelationary violence.

0
💬 0

1067.661 - 1072.725 Mason

In sacrificing individual liberty in the pursuit of some abstract collective good.

0
💬 0

1072.785 - 1074.606 Host

He makes us really consider the costs.

0
💬 0

1075.247 - 1078.409 Mason

It's like he's saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

0
💬 0

1078.892 - 1080.133 Host

Even revolutionary-wise.

0
💬 0

1080.153 - 1081.534 Mason

That's a warning we should all heed.

0
💬 0

1081.774 - 1083.015 Host

No matter our political beliefs.

0
💬 0

1083.735 - 1085.917 Mason

This deep dive, man, it's been a roller coaster.

0
💬 0

1086.097 - 1087.378 Host

It's definitely been a journey.

0
💬 0

1087.618 - 1090.44 Mason

I started out excited to learn more about the Russian Revolution.

0
💬 0

1090.8 - 1092.001 Host

That's how it usually starts.

0
💬 0

1092.101 - 1093.342 Mason

And now I'm kind of terrified.

0
💬 0

1093.702 - 1095.323 Host

It can be a bit unsettling.

0
💬 0

1095.623 - 1097.204 Mason

But also strangely inspired.

0
💬 0

1097.344 - 1102.468 Host

It's like Maximoff gives us this new lens to view history through. And maybe even the world around us.

0
💬 0

1103.334 - 1110.017 Mason

So as we wrap things up here, I think we've covered a lot. What's the one thing you hope our listener takes away from all of this?

0
💬 0

1110.557 - 1112.038 Host

From Maximoff's analysis.

0
💬 0

1112.558 - 1116.1 Mason

What's the most important lesson we can learn from this journey into the Bolshevik state?

0
💬 0

1116.74 - 1119.642 Host

I think the most important lesson is never take freedom for granted.

0
💬 0

1120.222 - 1121.002 Mason

It's easy to do.

0
💬 0

1121.022 - 1121.883 Host

It really is.

0
💬 0

1122.023 - 1131.224 Mason

But we can't just assume that those in power, even those who claim to be acting on behalf of the people, have our best interests at heart. Right. We have to stay vigilant.

0
💬 0

1131.364 - 1133.967 Host

Always be skeptical. Always be questioning.

0
💬 0

1134.107 - 1136.37 Mason

And always be willing to stand up for what we believe in.

0
💬 0

1136.49 - 1139.453 Host

Even when it's difficult. Even when it's dangerous.

0
💬 0

1139.613 - 1149.444 Mason

Because as Maximoff shows us, the price of silence... Can be much higher than we ever imagined. Wow. That's powerful. And on that note, I think it's time to wrap up this deep dive.

0
💬 0

1149.624 - 1150.946 Host

It's been a wild ride.

0
💬 0

1151.311 - 1153.952 Mason

full of twists and turns and unsettling revelations.

0
💬 0

1153.992 - 1157.432 Host

But it ultimately, I think it's left us with more hope than despair.

0
💬 0

1157.452 - 1158.493 Mason

I agree.

0
💬 0

1158.673 - 1165.574 Host

Because knowledge is power. And the more we understand about the past, the better equipped we are to avoid repeating those mistakes.

0
💬 0

1166.174 - 1166.814 Mason

In the future.

0
💬 0

1166.974 - 1168.735 Host

Exactly. So keep exploring.

0
💬 0

1169.355 - 1170.335 Mason

Keep questioning.

0
💬 0

1170.495 - 1176.016 Host

Never stop seeking the truth. That's the best way to honor the legacy of those who fought for a better world.

0
💬 0

1176.356 - 1178.517 Mason

Even if their dreams sometimes turned into nightmares.

0
💬 0

1178.979 - 1182.542 Host

It's a reminder that we all have a responsibility to shape the future.

0
💬 0

1183.043 - 1184.144 Mason

And to learn from the past.

0
💬 0

1184.524 - 1188.568 Host

So that we can create a world that is truly just and free.

0
💬 0

1189.369 - 1190.99 Mason

Thanks for joining us on this deep dive.

0
💬 0

1191.05 - 1191.691 Host

It's been a pleasure.

0
💬 0
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