Holden Thorp was the chancellor of UNC when the university faced the worst atheltic scandal in its history. This week, he opens up about his experience—revealing what he knew, what he kept hidden from the public, and what he would do differently if given the chance. For a transcript of this episode: https://bit.ly/campusfiles-transcripts To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What is the background of Holden Thorpe and his connection to UNC?
I'm Margo Gray. This week on Campus Files, we explore what it was like to navigate one of the most tumultuous periods in UNC's history. What did Holden Thorpe really know? What would he do differently if given the chance? And can any university president manage the monstrosity that college athletics have become?
Before we dive into Holden Thorpe's tenure as UNC chancellor, I wanna give you a little background because Thorpe isn't just the former head of UNC, he's a lifelong fan and his connection to the university runs deep.
My father and his father and all my father's brothers and lots and lots of people on my father's side of the family went to UNC Chapel Hill. And so I was raised with Carolina Blue stuff all around and with all the legends and folklore of UNC Chapel Hill.
When Thorpe couldn't sleep as a kid, his dad would try to lull him to rest by singing Hark the Sound, UNC's alma mater.
I went there for the first time when I was six years old to go to the Moorhead Planetarium, which I eventually ended up running. And I went to football games and all that kind of stuff when I was a kid and was a diehard Carolina basketball fan long before I ended up being in charge of it.
So when it came time for college, it was only fitting that he applied to just one university, UNC.
I went to Chapel Hill as a freshman right after UNC had won the 82 championship. So Michael Jordan played for UNC for two years while I was an undergraduate. And it was really the beginning of the golden years of UNC basketball.
When Thorpe wasn't busy cheering on the Tar Heels, he was likely either playing jazz or working in the chemistry lab.
Like a lot of young kids from medium-sized towns like mine, it was Fayetteville, North Carolina, I thought I wanted to be a physician. So I became a chemistry major because that was most of the requirements for pre-med, but I changed my mind at the last second to get a PhD in chemistry instead of going to medical school.
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Chapter 2: How did Holden Thorpe rise to become chancellor of UNC?
And so began Thorpe's lifetime in academia. He earned a doctorate in chemistry from Caltech and completed his postdoctoral work at Yale. His first teaching position was at NC State University, but it didn't take long before he was back at his alma mater. In 1993, Thorpe returned to UNC, where he quickly rose from visiting assistant professor to tenured professor.
In addition to being promoted within the chemistry department, you're very quickly topped for all sorts of administrative roles outside the chemistry lab. Director of the planetarium, chemistry department chair, dean of the College of Arts and Sciences. Why do you think you were seen as a good fit for these roles?
I mean, I'm somebody who is very focused on getting things done. I've since come out as being autistic. I'm very task oriented. I'm very literal. If there's a problem to be solved, I want to get it solved.
In 2007, when the role of chancellor opened up, the UNC Board of Trustees quickly singled out Thorpe as a top candidate. The chancellor is the highest-ranking official at the university, essentially combining the roles of CEO, community leader, and athletic director all in one. At the time of your interview, you were serving as dean, which is a role that's really focused on overseeing academics.
But university chancellor, on the other hand, oversees all aspects of the institution, including athletics. I'm curious how much athletics came up during your interviews.
Yeah, that's a great question. When I was interviewing for the job, there was one question about athletics. And I said some weepy-eyed things about Carolina basketball and how much I loved it. And I just got all the alumni all misty-eyed about the Carolina Blue and all that stuff. And that was the last they asked me.
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Chapter 3: What challenges did Holden Thorpe face during his chancellorship?
And at the time, what did you know about the inner workings of the athletic department?
I mean, I knew about going to the games and stuff, but I knew next to nothing about how athletics really worked. And we had an experienced athletic director. And you have to remember that there was nowhere near their mind that we could have some kind of big scandal either.
UNC hadn't dealt with the sports scandal in decades. Its record with the NCAA was spotless. So when it came time to select a new chancellor, no one saw the need to prioritize experience in athletics. Besides, whatever Holden Thorpe lacked in that area, he more than made up for elsewhere.
He was a Fayetteville native, UNC graduate, lifelong Carolina sports fan, beloved professor, and renowned academic.
And also, I had a lot of connections in Democratic politics. And it was a time when North Carolina was the unusual southern state in that it hadn't gone red. And so the leaders of Democratic politics in North Carolina were incredibly powerful. And one of the most powerful ones was my father's law partner.
And so all of those things, I think, added up to me being the person then picked for that job.
This was news to me, just how much political connections influence the selection of university leaders. It's especially true at public universities like UNC that rely on taxpayer dollars.
There's no way I would have become the chancellor at UNC at age 43 if it hadn't been for that. So all of those things, I think, added up to me being the person picked for that job.
Thank you. This is an incredible day for my family and me. I'm so grateful for the opportunity to lead the best university in the world.
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Chapter 4: How did the UNC athletic scandal begin to unfold?
You know, I've had good timing in my career and I've had bad timing. Becoming the chancellor of UNC Chapel Hill in 2008 was just bad luck.
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Chapter 5: What actions did Holden Thorpe take in response to the scandal?
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At the start of Holdenthorpe's chancellorship, UNC was riding high. In 2009, during his first full academic year as chancellor, the men's basketball team clinched the national championship.
Welcome to the White House, everybody.
Then President Barack Obama honored the championship team at the White House.
It's fifth national championship. And more importantly, thanks for salvaging my bracket.
Whether Obama meant to or not, his remarks touched on the Carolina way, the philosophy popularized under legendary coach Dean Smith. It's the belief that UNC excels not only on the court, but off of it as well. And it's a belief that endured at UNC long after Smith's tenure.
I know Coach Williams instills the importance of academics into all these guys. And what they understood is that being a champion doesn't stop when you step off the court.
So at this point in your chancellorship, would you have described yourself as a believer in the Carolina way philosophy?
Oh, yeah. I was raised on that philosophy. And so while I have great admiration for Dean Smith and what he accomplished, he did manage to convince people that they didn't need to look too closely at how it all worked by coming up with this whole Carolina Way idea. So that made it all the more difficult when I figured out there wasn't as much to it as everybody thought.
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