Zoë François
Appearances
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
Zoe, thank you so much for joining us. Hi, so nice to be with you.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
Yeah, I kind of thought everybody grew up like this. I mean, when you're a kid and you're having this experience, you don't realize how unique it is. So I feel so lucky. And those two chapters changed the book. I thought that I had, you know, a clear idea of what this book was. And it was sort of my love letter to all the cookies that I'd baked in my career. And it really became about the stories.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
It became about what I learned about myself. And in particular, those two chapters, the sort of DNA that is me that absolutely came from baking and these women who shared these recipes with me. So it's deeply personal. And I've sort of been evangelizing since I wrote it about getting these recipes from your family, because in certain cases, if I hadn't asked for these recipes, they'd be gone.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
So in the case of my Bubby Berkowitz, when I was doing this book, I called my mom and asked her if she had any stories or memories of these particular cookies. And out came stories of my great-great-grandmother, who was in Kiev, baking in her apartment to basically support her family during the Russian Revolution.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
Her daughter, in the meantime, was stealing the ingredients and selling them to the Russian soldiers to make enough money to move to America. So literally, I would not be standing here if it weren't for cookies. I mean, who knew? Who knew cookies would have that impact?
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
It was so many cookie balls. Yeah. I have a freezer in my basement and it was basically filled to the brim with scooped out cookie balls and test after test after test. I think when you show people the experiments that you're doing, I feel like it gives them freedom to do it as well. And so I really wanted to show people freedom
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
If you add a little bit more sugar, this is what's going to happen because people substitute in a recipe all the time. And we're, you know, as recipe developers, we're often asking them not to.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
We're begging them so that they will end up with the results that we had worked really hard to land on. And in this case, I wanted people to substitute, but I wanted to give them some stepping stones to getting to where they actually were trying to go. And so like, do they want it a little bit crispier?
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
And this is what will happen if you have a little less or a little more of one of the ingredients so that when they start their experiments, they'll land closer to where they want to be faster. And then they have to come back to me and share what they've changed so that I can try it.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
The current favorite, I think, is the cover recipe, which is the smash cookie. Levan, the cookie company in New York City, was far and away the most recommended chocolate chip cookie that I got back from my very scientific past on social media. Yeah. And the smash cookie was sort of my first attempt at recreating that cookie. And I wasn't loving it.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
Yes. And people are mad for this. It's just not necessarily my taste. But they are outrageously popular. So I may be alone in this. So anyway, I bake them. And then because I wasn't loving them, I just took a spatula and smashed them down. And the way that they set up after I did that was... was very exciting to me.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
Like all of a sudden they had just the right amount of that ooey gooeyness in the center. It wasn't like this big old block of it. So I take this giant ball, I actually bake them so you get this sort of crispy outside. And then I smash them once they come out and let them set just like that. That way you get that sort of ooey gooey center.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
If you put them back in the oven, they're gonna set up a little bit more. Again, Whatever your preference is, try it both ways and see which one you love.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
A big tall glass of milk. That's it.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
Basically, Zoe Bakes Anywhere on Instagram, Substack, my website, Facebook. It's all Zoe Bakes.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Perfecting Chocolate Chip Cookies, featuring Zoë François
Thank you. This has been such a treat. I love chatting cookies with you.