UAP Gerb
Appearances
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
The information density of your channel is drinking from a fire hose of mind-blowing facts. The golden age of Army R&D has a lot of really interesting research we can parallel today and talk about later. But during this time, the Foreign Technology Division was trying to use recovered technology to use human brainwaves to guide ICBM missiles.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Yeah. And that it only existed in institutional memory. That's right.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
And, you know, I'll get back to Corso, but, you know, maybe we'll talk about the IPU documents later because that actually talks about like a crash retrieval that killed technicians at Sandia National Labs because of the danger of the crash. But so Corso worked for the Foreign Technology Division. This is not in dispute.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
You can look through his official military records that said he was the chief of the Foreign Technology Division, not out of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. But the crux of his testimony is that under Arthur Trudeau in 1958 to 1962, we saw the golden age of Army R&D.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
And this is where materials recovered from the Roswell crash and possibly other crashes, maybe Aztec, maybe crash at Corona, planes of San Augustine, so forth, that the U.S. Army would partner with the U.S. industry to... figure out how these technologies work and seed them back primarily to help the U S military. And secondly, help the American people if necessary.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Well, we know we never saw the American people if necessary, but it wasn't just to see the technologies.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
It was also to improve upon existing technologies that, you know, there's a lot of contention here because some of these technologies were passive night vision systems and guys like Colonel John B. Alexander, who, you know, has made some lies about the majestic documents before, um, dispute this and stuff like the transistor and integrated circuit. Uh,
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
But I like to focus on other stuff because the golden age of Army R&D has a lot of really interesting research we can parallel today and talk about later. But Corso also states during this time that the Foreign Technology Division was trying to use recovered technology to use human brainwaves to guide ICBM missiles and ballistic missiles. Whoa, really? Yeah.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Yeah, thanks so much. I'm happy to be back. I mean, we recorded last time in November. Since then we had the hearings. We had like the soul foundation. We had Jake coming forward. We've had so much to touch on. So like you and I talked about, got this back together because a ton of new topics to touch on old stuff to revisit new information. It's been an exciting time.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
No, no. Rumor has it he only had 24 hours to edit it. And according to his son, he put his hand to his head and said, I can't believe this.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Only 20 minutes is public. I think a little bit's public. And it's published through Greer, weirdly enough.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Bell labs, Sperry Rand, which went to Funkton, its divisions went to Northrop, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and others. And so, uh, Philip Corso actually has a manuscript. It's called Dawn of a New Age. And so for my research on Corso, I read the two side by side and went through every single difference. Remarkably different.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
For example, in Day After Roswell, there's a passage about how Corso intimidated a CIA director to off himself, which is absurd. And of course, you don't see that in the manuscript.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
The first chapter of the book is like a detailed description of Roswell as if somebody was there. Corso never, never talks about that stuff. He doesn't know what happened at Roswell. He just takes... The materials he's seen. Another example is continued mentions to the Majestic documents in Day After Roswell. They're only passively referenced once in Dawn of a New Age.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
However, in Dawn of a New Age, Corso also states interesting stuff that he found after his time in the foreign technology division. And maybe we'll get into that later because we can circle back to the psionic stuff with other like really old documents. research we can dig into.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
But, um, you know, of course it would talk about stuff like a UFO working group, which there's reasons to suggest maybe the majestic 12, uh, changed into that along the way.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
But what I wanted to say about the psionics as well is, and just kind of the mental phenomenon, I want to route this back to three key players, Dr. Eric A. Walker, Robert Sarbacher, Dr. Robert Sarbacher and, uh, Wilbert B. Smith. So this story takes place around 1950.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Wilbert B. Smith was a Canadian radio engineer who had a huge interest in flying saucers after reading The Flying Saucer Conspiracy by author Frank Scully. Mm-hmm. Dr. Robert Sarbacher was the scientific advisor to the Research and Development Board spearheaded by Vannevar Bush.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Around 1950, Wilbert Smith met with Robert Sarbacher to talk about flying saucers because the Canadian government wanted to use sort of kind of magnetic, the Earth's magnetic field for propulsion. And he thought after reading the flying saucer conspiracy, there may be some sort of connection.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
And during this meeting, Robert Sarbacher said stuff like, well, in the 1950s, there were meetings about flying saucers. The U.S. government studies them. It's spearheaded by a group of Vannevar Bush. I can't tell you what they're from or what they're made of, but we know they're not made by humans.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
And so Wilbert Smith relayed that in a 1950 Department of Transportation Canada memo that was then reduced from top secret to, I think, restricted access or confidential in 1960 something and then and then completely unclassified later. But so Wilbert B. Smith took that and met with Sarbacher and these guys again to really get involved with UFOs.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
And Sarbacher basically said, like, I can connect you to UFOs. the proper American authorities to engage with more UFO research if you can A, become cleared, and B, give something back. And so Wilbert B. Smith, he would later on go to Spearhead Project Magnet, which was Canada's first UFO investigation group, followed up by Project Second Story.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
But when he finally met again with the Americans, he learned other things such as, you know, Vannevar Bush, Spearhead the group, he knew that, a couple more things, but he also said that that the U.S. authorities studying UFOs were obsessed with the mental phenomena that accompanied UFO research. So later on down the line, there was also a gentleman, Dr. Eric A. Walker. This guy is super esteemed.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
He was Penn State University's president, one of the smartest people of the entire 20th century. He was named in a conversation to William Steinman, UFO researcher, that one of the attendees of these meetings in the 1950s about UFO crash retrievals was Dr. Eric A. Walker. Dr. Eric A. Walker would stay silent for a long time. He was first contacted in, I think, 1984 by William Steinman.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
He returned William Steinman's letter really cryptically with a typed thing saying like, go, go, go, leave me alone. But eventually he would kind of meet with Steinman and another researcher named Henry Azadeh-Hell. Uh, during these meetings, he would say some interesting stuff. Like he was present at the 1965 Kecksburg UFO crash.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Um, and yes, that he did attend these meetings, but when William Steinman asked him about, or maybe it was Henry S the hell asked him about majestic 12. He said he knew about Majestic 12. He'd known about them for 40 years. And he retorted with a question saying, what do you know about ESP, extrasensory perception? Unless you know about it... I think he said the sixth sense, specifically.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You would never be let in. Yes.
American Alchemy
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What else? And then another thing, I'm sure many viewers will know Leonard Stringfield, who's one of the greatest crash retrieval researchers, probably the greatest of all time. In the 70s and 80s, when nobody was doing this, he was researching crash retrievals. He was mainly focusing on witness testimony.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
In his files, so in crash retrieval status reports one through seven, as well as when he passed on and Michael Schrat went to his archives in Cincinnati and read through the rest of his reports, he found numerous mentions of witnesses who had observed recovered UFOs and kind of cutaway diagrams accompanying the UFOs and how in certain retrieval cases, there would seem to be like a headband or a headband transceiver worn by individuals
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
the operators of the craft that somehow would pilot said craft. And that the same thing Corso said, right? In interviews with him, he said that the operators of specifically the Roswell craft were part of the guidance system. So it doesn't seem too far fetched when Jake talks about an asset, a psionic person being able to use their mind to, to commandeer the flight controls of a craft.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
I'm still unfamiliar with the physics of really how to wrap my head around this fully, but it's not out of the question to me. It's based in a lot of research spanning back to 1960s.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Well, who knows what sort of progress has been made that's been kind of kept under wraps. We have SRI and SAIC with the Stargate program. And you and I have personal experience with Randy, who... Um, you know, as a, as a green beret was at the Naval surface warfare center crane went underground via contractor SAIC and was shown technology that purportedly responded to human consciousness.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
To start the video on the News Nation special isn't even that wasn't taken by Jake. And I think that was rather rushed and overhyped. Just like you said, you know, Dr. Nolan came up beforehand, said people would be very happy with this. I don't think anybody was happy with that. But the whole Jake story for me goes back to investigating Michael Herrera.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Now, anybody who's saying that the Navy hasn't studied this stuff is, is, uh, not fully knowledgeable on the subject, going back to 2011 and 2012, the Navy, the ONR specifically, Office of Naval Research, was publishing studies on a sixth sense within humans. So the Navy, SAIC, SRI, Stargate, all of these guys are pretty interested. I mean, we have U.S.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Army INSCOM General Albert Stubblebine who wanted to basically cognitively enhance soldiers. The movie The Men Who Stare at Goats is made after Stubblebine.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
And then there's also stories about the 1983 Strategic Defense Initiative instituted by Ronald Reagan, which was to act against Soviet ICBMs.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Yeah. That's not a question. And that's a fascinating topic to get into as well. And once you talk about Randy, we can, we can absolutely get into dumbs.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Because he also has pictures of him at Crane. It's absurd. At the year right when he saw the technology as well.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Way back in the day, I think this was like February of 2024, I made a video on him and Jonathan Weygandt. And anybody unfamiliar with Jonathan Weygandt, he was a Lance Corporal in the Marines who claimed in 1997 while stationed in Peru under Operation Laser Strike that he encountered a crashed aircraft.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Well, A, I don't think it's a valid criticism as well to say that because there was some sort of sign that labeled Offworld Technologies Division that that's completely nonsensical. Yeah. I've seen that criticism leveraged around. That's quite a baseless claim to make that a division would not be named.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Sure, it may seem a bit strange, but we're talking about UFO legacy programs and deep underground military bases that span the continental United States, right? Uh, so that's not an accurate criticism to me, but the technologies Randy saw that I want to focus specifically on the sphere that he said reacted to human consciousness. There is a mutual friend of ours that has observed that as well.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
UAP, um, kind of large egg shaped featured some ubiquitous features that we see in other retrievals.
American Alchemy
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It's like a long history. They coined their own terms for like telekinesis and psychokinesis when they kind of bought up the research from SRI. So SAIC took it and ran with it.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Yeah, and like the other testimonies we mentioned too are incredibly interesting. The story with Jordan, he and I spoke about that long before any research with Randy was ever made public. So initially when I made contact with Randy, I went around kind of looking for any other story that may involve some sort of sphere, some sort of basketball-sized metal that might interact with people.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
And this also like... Almost harkens back even to how we opened up with the story of Jonathan Wagan. When he got in close proximity to the crash craft he saw, whether it was the beans or the craft itself, he felt an overwhelming sense of calmness and communication in his head. And we hear that from Jake Barber as well with the eight gone.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Yeah, it's like what we talked about. My research mainly focuses on legacy programs, but I can't discount... The research done at Stargate, the psionic stuff, I can't leave that out of the equation. I still need to study it always when it arises. Of course.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
And you know, and sometimes those bleed over into the realms I study as well. Cause you know, we were talking about stubble buying, who was interested in psychic spies. Then on the other hand, stubble buying also has really interesting research into like UFO crash retrieval and legacy reverse engineering programs.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Okay. And so Jonathan Weygant, Lance Corporal at the time, basically was sent to kind of investigate a crash of an unknown, possibly foreign craft. And he and two other Marines, one Sergeant Allen and another person, found a crashed craft. The story is super interesting because it features like Mother of Pearl effect on the skin of the craft, liquid coming from the craft.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
So on one hand, he's kind of engaging with the more psychic aspect of the phenomenon. On the other hand, he's dealing with the really tangible program level stuff. I mean, Stubblebind created the U.S. Army INSCOM intelligence and security commands special operations unit, the intelligence support activity. And I think 2002, right around the time the CIA OGA was created,
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
the intelligence support activity, which is a really, really clandestine, secretive combat group, kind of like the CIA soldiers almost, was brought over to JSOC, the Joint Special Operations Command. And if we adhere to some excellent reporting by Chris Sharp and others, the CIA OGA and its creation in 2002 and JSOC are utilized to perform crash retrievals and so forth.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
I think it's the 24th STS out of the Air Force, SEAL Team 6 out of the Navy, Delta out of Army and ISA out of Army as well. There might be another unit or two. I don't want to butcher that, but those are. some of the primary units.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Absolutely. And another interesting thing about Stubblebine, what we're talking about him in the memoir, Dawn of a New Age by Philip J. Corso. Corso stated he learned that in 1986, there was a group created called the UFO Working Group, which was created to study and kind of manipulate UFOs, reverse engineering and so forth. And this was funded by the leader of U.S.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Army INSCOM, which is, of course, Albert Stubblebine. And to top things off, to make it even more interesting, so that's 1986. In 1984, Stubblebine left the U.S. Army. He then went on to serve as like a chairman or a board member of BDM, which was a defense contractor bought up by TRW, which was then bought up by Northrop Grumman.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
But in 1985, Albert Stubblebine and BDM at their corporate headquarters in McLean, Virginia, created what they called the Advanced Theoretical Working Group. Yes. Which was a large event classified with DOE controls to study UFO reverse engineering and crash retrieval. And we have the famous notes by Oak Shannon, which resulted from that.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
He's always, he's always popping up in the same circle.
American Alchemy
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So I think because of Greer's own ego, and I have my feelings about Greer, both pros and cons, he likes to frame this as, oh, Stubblebine offered me $2 billion to shut up and talk about UFOs.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Explain what mother of pearl effect is kind of like oil on water. Um, something that, that Jake and others also kind of described unique features of the shimmering of, uh, kind of the craft skin. And also way Gant spoke of what he assumed to be bodies in the craft with kind of a, an arm hanging out of the craft.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
But I think according to documents and emails on the DPI archive, that $2 billion, which still is an egregious sum of money, was to purchase Stephen Greer's institution, C-SETI, and integrate it into Stubblebind's work. So it wasn't just to buy off Stephen Greer. It was to basically purchase his whole institution. And this was in 1992. Right.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
I don't know if that's real, but the real meat of the Greer saga and the Greer information starts to pick up around 97. It's really hard to track down what Greer was doing in pre-1997. But he was a doctor? Yeah, he was a practicing trauma doctor, I think at an ER.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
I don't really know how he got interested in the subject, but he does say at the age of 18, and he said this in his 2024 September event, that he was contacted by like a cosmic intelligence and told to basically save the world.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
I think there was a really big shift in Greer. So, you know, he talks about his archive release, the DPI Archives, Disclosure Project Initiative Archives. He says it would take somebody two to four years to go through it. That's nonsense. I've gone through the whole thing, like, eight times. But... So in 1997, I don't know what Greer was doing before that.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
But in 1997, UFO researcher Bill Hamilton, William Hamilton III, who wrote the book Cosmic Top Secret, I talked about in relation to Northrop Grumman. He had been in contact with Greer and this UFO researcher who I think is one of the most underappreciated people in the entire realm.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
He introduced Greer to various witnesses that would feature on the 2001 Disclosure Project National Press Club event where various government and private sector whistleblowers would speak. Some of these included some redacted names who I've come to learn about those people. They're not public. Wow. And then... Mark McCandlish and Brad Sorenson. Oh, yeah.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Yeah. This likely had a backdoor to fund UAP programs and act offensively against UAP. This technology is obviously not ubiquitous. There's different types of technology. There's different craft design. One could reasonably assume then there's different types of NHI. Some man, some not man.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
The two primary witnesses are Brad Sorenson being the primary witness of the 1988 Norton Air Force show where an alien reproduction vehicle was shown off and Mark McCandlish, the person who created the line art drawings and so forth.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
And by the way, the term alien reproduction vehicle that most people associate with Greer was coined by Sorensen himself and relayed in Hamilton's 1992 book, Cosmic Top Secret. He got this wrong. He said alien replicated vehicle, but even so. And around the same time, I talked about this around Northrop as well, Greer met a person named A.H., He's since spilled the name in his archive.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
I just won't repeat it. We'll call it AH. But AH was, I guess, a former Boeing technician. And we can see from Hamilton and AH most of the grounds that Greer operates on today, including naming sites where programs operated, where it's Air Force Base, not really Wright-Patterson, China Lake, Dugway Proving Grounds, all of these sites. And you can see direct queries. quotes from A.H.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
He's only ever done two interviews, one in 2001 for Steven Greer, one in 2023 under, I think Dan Willis. And yeah, So he is a really interesting person. Are you in touch with him? Yes. Yes. Jonathan Weygand is one of the nicest people I've ever met in my entire life. Wow. He's a really good guy.
American Alchemy
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and Hamilton that have made their way into Greer's research. He still is used today. I mean, Greer's a big proprietor that Dugway Proving Grounds out in Utah saw a lot of UFO programs shipped over from Area 51. And he always quotes that 35% to 40% of programs at Area 51 were moved to Dugway in Utah. Well, if you look at A.H. 's testimony in the year 2000 recorded, he says the exact same thing.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
So Greer has really built upon... Like most of us, like all of us, he stood on the shoulders of giants and important people before him. But there seemed to be a real shift when he gained that sort of popularity where Greer would really, really focus on the CE5 stuff, which can really rub people the wrong way. And I think that's really mostly due to kind of the monetary incentive around it.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Yeah. But I think a little more spiritual, like more focus on love and light. Yeah. And Greer's also been busted for posting photos of like cactuses and stuff and saying they're, they're entities.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Yeah. You know, because I've never spoken to Greer. I've never been in contact with him. I don't plan to, but I've been bad mouth by him. I know that. What did he, what did he say about you? So when Greer releases DPI archive, um, And I went through that and looked at all the accompanying files because with each witness ID that's redacted, a lot of the time there's, there's emails.
American Alchemy
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I would look through these and I would say like, why is, why does Greer get to talk to these people and nobody else does? So I would spend weeks tracking people down and finding out who they were and contacting them. There've, there've been multiple that I have, but at the tail end of 2024, there was a recent entry on the, on the archive. This was a brand new person.
American Alchemy
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This was the army public affairs person that I talked about recently. Um, I contacted this person. We struck up a relationship. This guy's an amazing person. But right when we started talking, he was suspicious of my motives, of course, because I reach out and I just said, hi, I found your name this way, this way, this way.
American Alchemy
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Because whenever I reach out to somebody from the archive, I say, Hey, this is where the breach of security happened. This is how I found your name. It will not be shared. I'm, I'm. I'm not interested in contacting anybody else. But so this guy and I started talking and we hung up on the phone one day and he called me back 10 minutes later.
American Alchemy
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He said, I need to like, I need to know what you're doing. I said, excuse me. He said, I just talked, I just talked to Greer. And he said, you're an intelligence, like you're an intelligence asset. I said, what? So apparently this guy, when we hung up off the phone, he then contacted Greer because he was still in contact with Greer.
American Alchemy
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And he gave Greer my full name, which I would prefer if he wouldn't have done that. But that's okay. And then Greer said I was an intelligence asset. So that's my one.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. I've never talked to the guy. Yeah.
American Alchemy
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Yes. I fully believe Jonathan Weygand's encounter. Why? There's small details that kind of prove to aid in other research. The reason I covered him and Michael together in a video, besides just the fact they were Marines, is they both talked about a team present. Of course, in Michael's case, he talked about a human-made craft that he encountered, but...
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
I don't have a security clearance. I've never been in the military. I've never been in intelligence. Yeah. Graduated with a degree in engineering and I moved to, what do you, what do you do?
American Alchemy
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Yeah. Like mechanical engineering, service engineering. It's, it's very boring. I'd like to move to this more full time.
American Alchemy
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Medical devices, formerly a renewable energy, like wind turbines and such. Okay. Normal dude.
American Alchemy
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I mean, there's just a, there's a lot of work, uh, in this subject that I think needs to be revisited because as much as I hate to say it, and I'm sure you realize that as well, there has been elements of circular reporting in this time.
American Alchemy
The Most Knowledgeable UFO Researcher In The World
Yeah, I really, from what I try and do, I see a big gap in modern day in terms of investigating primarily legacy programs and witness testimony. Because historically, like wherever you look, wherever you look in this subject, Greer kind of has his paws in post like 1995, because even he is entwined in stuff like the Wilson Davis memo going back that far and so forth.
American Alchemy
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And guys like really great researchers today, like Richard Dolan, he still focuses more on like sightings and kind of flaps and encounters and so forth. And what he does, he's almost the best at.
American Alchemy
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It's really refreshing because any... It's really refreshing to work together because I'm sure it's like everybody who's done some, some research in this subject knows like any sort of disclosure is not really going to come willingly. Um, especially when it comes to, uh, UFO legacy program operations. So kind of working together and tackling cases and stuff like that is, is really brilliant to do.
American Alchemy
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And Chris is a great guy. You introduced me to him at the hearings and you know, the second he and I met, he and I were talking about Bobless arcs. He did the interview with Luigi from project gravitar.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. I mean, I've historically stayed away from Bob because I'm so biased towards wanting to believe him. Yeah. You know, growing up, I would always hear about his testimony. I was the first to buy Area 51 or UFOs and Flying Saucers from Jeremy Corbell and his book, Dreamland.
American Alchemy
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The more I study other things, the more interest I find specifically not Bob Lazar, reverse engineering, the sports model, propulsion systems, or reading about the files and bodies and so forth, but specifically around the facility S4, which I have good reason to believe that S4 is just southwest of Papoose Mountain Range, right by Papoose Lake is a real place.
American Alchemy
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And what's your good reason to believe that? So there's a couple public testimonies around it that I don't really want to focus on, but like Dan Barish, Edgar Foucher, who claimed that S4 ran the Defense Advanced Research Center, the DARS, which was found in a... ARPA document in the 70s to be proposed to exist, which was an underground facility.
American Alchemy
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Never really proven to exist, but I've talked to one person who has been to S4, another person who said they won't comment on if it exists. The person who had been to S4 said he didn't see anything crazy or extraterrestrial. He was just...
American Alchemy
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went in the facility, but he did say some things that are similar to what Bob Lazar and others would say, meaning like colored pathways to show where you can walk.
American Alchemy
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Yeah, I mean, if that story is true, then that's one example of a deep underground military base with a hangar built into the side of a mountain, which is really interesting. Yep. Because deep underground military bases, a lot of people associate those with conspiracies for like human trafficking or stuff like that. But those are a very real concept.
American Alchemy
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There's like a very rich, rich history of deep underground military bases here. That started in the 1950s and 1960s out of Air Force Project RAND, which eventually became the RAND Corporation, which is a federally funded research and development center that is likely up to their eyeballs in UFO legacy programs.
American Alchemy
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So one of the things that I talk about all the time that I think is really overlooked in legacy operations is everybody likes to talk about the government, intelligence, or military, and contractors. You know, Northrup, Lockheed, Battelle. The piece that's missing, the thing between them, are the federally funded research and development centers and the university-affiliated research centers.
American Alchemy
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These are semi-private, not-for-profit institutions that are government-owned. Examples of FFRDCs would be places like the MITRE Corporation, the RAND Corporation, Sandia National Labs, Lawrence Livermore. There's one at Penn State where Eric Walker was. That's a university-affiliated research center. And those are kind of another side of the same coin.
American Alchemy
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And we can talk about what I think, based on some good intelligence, what I think these do. University-affiliated research centers are like the MIT soldier nanotech.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. And so with those FFRDCs and UARCs, what I think based on good intelligence is that the U.S. military and intelligence sources split between the Army, Navy, and Air Force will have a program, whether that be technology exploitation, materials research, reverse engineering, or flying of alien reproduction vehicles. And direct connections will be made with the UARCs or FFRDCs.
American Alchemy
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These will serve as the project manager performing subject matter expertise and research and development. And that will bridge the gap to the contractors, the defense corporations, because most as far as as far as I'm aware. most of the contractor personnel will not necessarily know what they're working on.
American Alchemy
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A famous example is the infographic show whistleblower, where he talks about a guy at Texas instruments, getting a piece of metal and not knowing what he's working on. It's the middle management at these companies at the, at the contractors that generally know what they're working on.
American Alchemy
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Um, like the security directors and so forth, but the FFRDCs and UARCs allows kind of one step removal between the, the, um, the military and intelligence and the contractor.
American Alchemy
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Well, initially he thought it was human trafficking. And we'll get into this in a few minutes. It was when he gave his testimony, when Michael Herrera gave his testimony at the 2023 Stephen Greer National Press Club show, that's when Jake Barber was sitting in the audience and said, I know about this and contacted Michael.
American Alchemy
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Absolutely. Rand, Mitre, Sandia, you know, Sandia and Lawrence Livermore were accused by some people like Edgar Foucher of actually reverse engineering propulsion for craft that would lead to like triangular ARV. But you also have to look at the time when a lot of these were made, specifically MITRE and the Aerospace Corporation.
American Alchemy
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They were founded in 1959 and 1960, the exact time of the golden age of Army R&D under Corso, who said that there were institutions also created to study extraterrestrial technology. And if you look at what's weird and what parallels to modern day with the UARCs and FFRDCs, if you look at U.S.
American Alchemy
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Army research and development, this is going to sound so boring to so many people, but if you look at U.S. Army primers for research and development from the 1950s and 1960s, like read through all of their proposals, you'll see under Trudeau, when he was the chief of research and development for the Army, he proposed that the Army work for
American Alchemy
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kind of technology transfer and technology study with URIs, University Research Institutes, and IRILs, I think it is, like independent research or something, independent research... laboratories similar, which are similar concepts to the UARCs and FFRDCs made in the 90s. So we see these insane parallels to modern day.
American Alchemy
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And of course, MITRE was made out of Project SAGE, which was a Lincoln Labs giant project to make giant radar systems to study ballistic missiles and so forth.
American Alchemy
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Oh, my God. But in Michael and Jonathan's encounters, so Jonathan said he saw an extraterrestrial craft or a non-human intelligence craft. Michael has stated, unlike the error report, which lies about this, that he saw a human-made craft. However, there are some similar elements in both aspects.
American Alchemy
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And yeah, I I'm with you there. And I just think it's so interesting to try and investigate how players and the government and military. package these concepts and these high energy experiments to classify them and keep them out of public view, especially when it involves kind of extraterrestrials or non-human intelligence.
American Alchemy
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And for the aero disenjoyers out there, as recently as 2024, the new aero director, John Kozlowski, said that aero is working with both UARCs and FFRDC. So that's something to glom onto. Yeah, he said that when Susan goes sitting right behind him to Gillibrand at the 2024 aero hearing. Whoa.
American Alchemy
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And then of course, when Sean Kirkpatrick left Arrow, he ran off to Oak Ridge, which go look at the FFRDC's connections there.
American Alchemy
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Many FFRDCs are owned by Battelle Memorial Labs or Triad National Security LLC, which one of those three is Battelle. Battelle is really interesting. I mean, if there's any group out there that is studying actual biologics, it's probably Battelle. They run some sort of biological materials lab out of Fort Detrick and also a lot of really interesting classified work out at Dugway Proving Grounds.
American Alchemy
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The crash recovery team in Jonathan's story, some of them wore DOE-lettered rain jackets, and there were other seemingly military operators in black fatigues. They spoke with American dialect but featured no insignia. This was the same thing that Michael described.
American Alchemy
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That design actually was featured in the first ever episode of The X-Files, which was allegedly based on true stories from John D'Souza. It's the same design. Wow.
American Alchemy
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And there's research to suggest that Battelle also studied the really lightweight metals out of the 1947 Roswell crash. In 1949, alongside Project Stork, they started publishing... information on like shaped metal alloys, nitinol.
American Alchemy
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Yeah, titanium nickel alloys. I used to think that Battelle was kind of phased out of operations. I'm not quite sure why I thought this, but recently I've taken a huge interest in Battelle being like one of the primary contractors out at Dugway Proving Grounds, which I think has a massive underground facility.
American Alchemy
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I mean, I've talked to a witness who didn't go on the 2023 career NPC, but I've talked to him and I've interviewed him. And he, while working as a contractor for the C Martin company at Dugway at the West desert test wing in the Avery section, stumbled upon a building where he saw a craft hovering in the air being tested on.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. And then Battelle runs, Battelle has a bunch of old contracts for making like enclosed laboratories at Dugway and stuff. And that is really fascinating.
American Alchemy
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But I don't know. I haven't been able to make that connection. But I was able to make a Dugway Proving Ground connection to one of your recent videos with James Fox.
American Alchemy
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So I was rewatching your James Fox interview, and he talks about the 1971 Holloman, or the Holloman Air Force Base footage that he talked to filmmaker Alan Sandler, who said he saw the footage and saw Beans in the footage.
American Alchemy
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Michael described a little further by stating that these men back in 2009 had really advanced M4 rifles with, you know, beautiful range finders and... They had bioscanners. Yeah, kind of like what he described to be like a modern cell phone to kind of scan their identification and so forth. And so there were some very similar elements. And that's kind of why I covered those two people together now.
American Alchemy
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And it landed, and the door opened, and guys come out looking like they were outer space guys. So in 1971, Sandler and another filmmaker, Robert, like, Emmenager or something like that, I think his name was. Emmenager, yeah. Yeah, they were approached by two U.S. military officials to make a documentary, and they could include the Holloman Air Force Base footage. Yeah.
American Alchemy
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One of these individuals was an army or air force. I can't remember a Colonel named Weinbrenner and Weinbrenner was actually part of the foreign technology division out of right pat for a while. So that occurred at, in the eighties or the late seventies.
American Alchemy
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And so time goes on a Weinbrenner would be asked all the time about UFOs because Robert Emmenager would go back and ask him like, what did you think? And you know, there's a story of a conversation where he and Weinbrenner are speaking and Weinbrenner saying like, oh, UFOs don't exist, blah, blah, blah, while taking a book off a shelf and giving him a book about UFOs.
American Alchemy
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But on his deathbed, there's a lot of research proposed by like Grant Cameron and Anthony Bregalia and so forth about Weinbrenner on his deathbed saying that they house dead extraterrestrials at a facility out in Utah, which of course is Dugway Proving Grounds. Really crazy. I made that connection last night. It was fun to see the Sandler to Weinbrenner to Dugway.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. But will they talk publicly?
American Alchemy
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So no, no, I, yeah, I'm not saying, I'm not, I'm not saying that to like push like a narrative or say like, run with this. Like, I know people have seen this, not a trust me, bro thing, but Yeah, of course, I've talked to people I take very seriously, like good friends that I've made who have said this. And these people are former military or intelligence. They're not contractors.
American Alchemy
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I haven't heard a peep from a contractor. I think that's a whole nother story because there's... Like government NDAs and contractor NDAs and the penalties for violating those are severe. But these military people are bound by NDAs sometimes, which usually really long NDAs, like decades long or lifelong agreements. And they do not want to be the person to violate. And you've seen bodies?
American Alchemy
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One of them has talked about a place in which bodies are stored. Where they store it. We'll say that because that might lead to people being able to identify that person.
American Alchemy
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No, nothing about the bodies because I think that is privy to a lot of their NDAs and so forth. So they can't talk about that.
American Alchemy
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That's a good question. Cause if we look at Ryan S. Woods, fantastic book, magic eyes only, we can find over a hundred cases of, of UFO crash retrieval. And even if only 20% of those are true, that's still, you know, above 20. There's also claims by career and others that at some of these black sites, um, one to two craft are brought down a year. Uh,
American Alchemy
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So I have no conceivable notion of how many craft have been brought down or why they're brought down. You know, you got guys like Philip J. Corso who talk about the initial Roswell crash being due to kind of conflicting radio signatures, messing with craft navigation. Uh-huh.
American Alchemy
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You have testimonies like the 1953 Kingman, Arizona crash where possibly nuclear testing from Operation Upshot Knothole messed with craft. And then you have Barber's testimony that psionic abilities can forcefully land craft or bring them down, or they have EM weapons to target the craft and bring them down.
American Alchemy
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And then there's also stories about the 1983 Strategic Defense Initiative instituted by Ronald Reagan, which was to act against Soviet ICBMs. This is Star Wars. Yeah, this is the Star Wars programs. I've talked to numerous people and I talk about this all the time in my projects that this likely had a backdoor to both fund UAP programs and act offensively against UAP.
American Alchemy
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So there seems to be numerous methods for them to crash accidentally or be brought down forcefully. How many, how often is that successful? I have no idea. And what sort of technology is being brought down in Jake's case, we have the testimony of the egg and the eight gone. And there's also the classic saucer and so forth. And, uh, This technology is obviously not ubiquitous.
American Alchemy
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There's different types of technology. There's different craft design. One could reasonably assume then there's different types of NHI, some manned, some not manned. I often think back to the 2008... I'll say this slow because it's, of course, very complicated, but the 2008 contractor that rhymes with Bakke Barton wanting to divest themselves of a craft to... You could say this.
American Alchemy
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David Grush said this on Joe Rogan. Oh, okay, okay. So in 2008, when Lockheed wanted to get rid of materials to the OSAP program through the CIA office, the Directorate of Science and Technology, Glenn Gaffney, Um, and he blocked that. Correct. He blocked that and stopped that from happening.
American Alchemy
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And, um, you know, I have really good reason to believe that this was the 1950, this was materials or the craft from the 1953 Kingman crash. And there's also other lines of research. I believe that too, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. And there's other lines of research to suggest that Lockheed, the only reason they were able to give this up is because they were completely, uh,
American Alchemy
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I've reached... I think they're two different teams, to be quite honest. Because Jonathan... So... Jonathan described a team of guys in camouflage with weapons, the Black Fatigue, sorry, DOE rain jackets, and also men in hazmat suits. So this must have been a specially designed crash retrieval team to contain biologics, spillage, possibly hazardous materials.
American Alchemy
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Uh, comfortable in the fact that no contract, no other contractor, no other foreign government or no us government could make any heads or tails of this technology. And that stands at a huge juxtaposition from all the other stories of alien reproduction vehicles being created.
American Alchemy
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Okay, so... Brad Sorensen, he's an industrial designer with his friend, aerospace illustrator, who had worked for defense contractors, popular science, Mark McCandlish, in either October to December of 1988.
American Alchemy
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Yeah, yeah. So Mark and Brad are to go to an air show at Norton Air Force Base in 1988. Mark had to not go to do work for Popular Mechanics. We can actually see the cover of that magazine he worked on. So Brad goes with some former high-up official. I initially at the time thought it might have been Frank Carlucci, but it might have been somebody else he went with. The air show's going on.
American Alchemy
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There's all types of interesting stuff, you know, fighters, advanced technologies and so forth. And then the person Brad is with brings him to a classified exhibit at another hangar. and passes Brad off as his aide. This was a former, like, Secretary of Defense, or really high a person, and there were other, you know, senators there, Georgie Brown Jr., Cranston, and so forth.
American Alchemy
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Mark kind of thought this might have been flown down to Air Force Plant 42, a couple miles away, but after further research and talking to some people, I do think this event did occur at Norton. So... Brad Sorensen is brought into a hangar where all sorts of advanced aerospace vehicles are shown off.
American Alchemy
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And so there's like a hovercraft. There's the losing competitor to the B2 Spirit bomber race. There's a craft called the Pulsar, which is likely a Lockheed Northrop Group craft. It's an unmanned UAV, unmanned aerial vehicle.
American Alchemy
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And it was designed to go at incredible speeds with scramjet technology to go super fast that could deploy like 120 nuclear warheads on its underbelly insane piece of technology. And this whole giant, uh, this whole giant hanger is separated by black curtain. So eventually they go to the other side of the black curtain and that's where mama, baby, and Papa bear are.
American Alchemy
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These are three flying saucers hovering off the ground, identical in composition, but scale to different sizes. what stood out to me from, so, and they, these look like acorn shaped.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. Yeah. It looks like a jello mold with half a ping pong ball at the top. Yep.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. Like a dome on top. And I want to pause here for a second because historically people have said that Mark McCandlish has relayed this story secondhand, which he has because he created line art of the craft, which we'll go into in a second. But, uh, This was not supposed to be published what I found.
American Alchemy
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And I was, I was told it wasn't supposed to be published by a person, but I found an original interview from, I think, 1990 with Brad Sorenson and Bill Scott of aviation week and space technology. So no longer is this a secondhand retelling. No, this is straight from Brad Sorensen, okay? This is not a secondhand encounter. This is straight from Brad, who, by the way, gave me death threats.
American Alchemy
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I don't like Brad. Not a nice guy.
American Alchemy
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You know, if you analyze other cases in history, the 1974 Koyame alleged crash and some of the majestic documents, there have been occasions where Um, toxic elements have seeped from, from crash retrievals and so forth. But I think this is likely a DOE nest team, nuclear emergency search teams. Um, this is kind of a, a S almost semi-private institutions.
American Alchemy
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Yeah, The Hunt for... It's not The Hunt for Zero Point, but something about... Zero Point, like the story of Mark McCandlish.
American Alchemy
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Super aggressive cancer in his autopsy report. It showed evidence of heavy metal poisoning. Right. And I've actually talked to the editor of that interview since, and he said that they had received kind of threats, like men in black type encounters and so forth, so...
American Alchemy
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So he said he saw these three craft. There was a demonstration by like cats in suits with a kind of a VCR and a video showing the craft over a dry lake bed, hopping, hopping, hopping, shooting up into the air. And there were some panels pulled off of the craft and essentially the bottom portion had what looked like a giant like Tesla coil, almost like copper plates and a rotary arm to reach out.
American Alchemy
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The top part looked like a removable crew cabin. This had F4 Phantom jump seats, super crap, like a hand ball control mechanism, which, by the way, that was the control mechanism for the triangular craft and secret machines by Tom DeLonge. But that's a whole other story. And... The thing looked like all three looked like crap.
American Alchemy
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Sorensen said that it looked like it was made by scientists, not engineers. There was no beauty in design. There was no streamlining of features. There was slag on it, chips. These things looked like they had beaten up. There were rivets on the outside. And so eventually during the pitch for this was to garner funding because Reagan had put a lot of effort into this.
American Alchemy
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this project with Star Wars and so forth and the incoming administration, they wanted to see just as much advanced aerospace money put in. And so the story behind this by the men in charge was that these craft were created, were copied from technology found in a crash in 47. The technology was not given to us. It was forcibly taken. It was never meant to be had.
American Alchemy
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The people who it was taken from or the things that it was taken from, it was taken forcefully. And that this was our poor man's interpretation of how this technology worked.
American Alchemy
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Right. I completely understand. It's such a crazy topic. But this was the birthplace of what we'll call ARV, alien reproduction vehicle. This was kind of the first ever big testimony of it. And Mark McCandlish, before he passed in 2020 due to a self-inflicted gunshot wound that, you know, who knows? He investigated the flux liner, what it was called ARV multiple times.
American Alchemy
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He talked to an individual named Kent Sellen, who said he saw this over Edwards Air Force Base in the 70s. He has an image taken by a pilot Harvey something, I can't quite remember, over Provo, Utah, right by Dugway Proving Grounds in the 60s. And that looks identical down to the synthetic vision system on the outside, which was an array of cameras to kind of point to a location and
American Alchemy
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I mean, back in the day, these nest teams, which were kind of elite operators sent to, uh, deal with anything that involved nuclear technology or nuclear secrets. This was comprised of various specialized operators and also received help from contractors like EG&G. We know EG&G from the Wilson Davis memo, from the story of Bob Lazar, Edgar Foucher, so forth, seeped in UFO lore. Yes.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. but this isn't the only example, you know, there's the controversial account of Edgar Foucher. A lot of people like to discount, um, especially because they like to say that Foucher has, has been debunked due to a lot of, uh, controversy with the alien scientists that I still think is, it's really worth revisiting.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. Yeah. And he had a relationship with Foucher. Okay. Oh, interesting. I've talked to the guy. He's a, he's a nice guy. Yeah. Yeah. He's cool. But he's pretty, he's pretty critical of Foucher.
American Alchemy
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Fouché was a USAF Master Sergeant that actually has... USAF is United States Air Force. He has verifiable work at Area 51 in the 70s. And he said whilst at Area 51 he would work on advanced satellite uplinks and so forth, but He would come to learn from various friends he knew, including some NSA officials, of the TR-3B, reverse engineered flying triangle. Yep.
American Alchemy
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Weirdly enough, I've talked to a guy, former Army in the mid-2010s, who said he saw a triangle craft jut off of an airway in Area 51. That's pretty interesting.
American Alchemy
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Well, this is even a separate guy too.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. Okay. He said that this took off during a, in the chow hall at a five, one, the, During classified takeoffs of aircraft, the windows are supposed to be lower. Nobody looks outside. But because he was with a colonel, they just kind of looked outside and a craft took up. It didn't disturb any of the dust around it, shot up silently, just vertically straight up.
American Alchemy
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Yeah, and Wang was also talked about by primary Kingman witness Arthur Stancil Jr. Yep. So that's funny, too. But this craft, the TR-3B, there were allegedly multiple versions, a prototype, an operational version ranging from 200 to 600 feet in diameter, crewing four, serving as logistics and transportation for what could only be known as a secret space fleet.
American Alchemy
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It seems like... Michael, the team he was dealing with, is the same team that Jake Barber is familiar with. And this is like a deep, black, former JSOC, Joint Special Operations Command, Tier 1 operators, former Delta, SEAL Team 6, Intelligence Support Activity, 24th STS. And these guys are bad eggs who are okay with hurting people. Then this is likely strictly private teams.
American Alchemy
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The propulsion device for the system was reverse engineered by Sandia and Livermore, two FFRDCs. The program was ran by the NSA, CIA, and NRO. And the contractors at work were Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, a couple others.
American Alchemy
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This is the most interesting part to me about the whole TR-3B thing. Yeah. Fouché says the pilots for this were plucked from the Air Force test pilot school, which takes place at Edwards, which is the 412th test wing. There's a witness that contacted Greer in 2023 that I found his name, investigated him thoroughly in an Edwards piece that claimed he operated out of...
American Alchemy
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edwards air force base in nellis and area 51 on testing reverse engineered vehicles i have shown you a little bit about this guy right including like the work he did at the pentagon and nellis and edwards and he was a director of an electronic or kind of an electronics warfare group at edwards under the 412 test wing which is exactly what fouché said tested the tr3b vehicles that is a phenomenal case uh
American Alchemy
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So he said he tested reverse engineered vehicles. At Area 51. At Area 51 and Edwards. So he said in 1998 to 2002, this guy Ed was briefed into programs while he was at Nellis under the 98th Range Wing, which became the Nevada Test and Training Range, which is pretty interesting in itself.
American Alchemy
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But that then in about 2006, he was sent to Edwards to actually work in said programs as a director of an electronics warfare group. And like I vetted this guy quite well. I've tried to contact him in numerous ways. Would you ever put it out of story with him or if he would talk to me, I would instantly. Okay. Instantly.
American Alchemy
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My number is blocked by him. I've tried to call him. I've tried to email him.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. I've tried to message him on social media. Funny enough. One time he accepted a Snapchat request and I messaged him, but he never got back. No. So this is what I think one of the most consequential untapped testimonies there is.
American Alchemy
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Well, Greer did the right thing with this witness, Ed. He was going to bring him in front of Senate Select Committee on Intelligence to testify. The guy got cold feet right beforehand. And I had this confirmed to me by elements of Senate and so forth. So this isn't just Greer saying that.
American Alchemy
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but this guy was supposed to testify by like a Senate aid or like, yeah.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. And this guy was supposed to speak, but got cold feet. Why is that? Because he was threatened. I don't know. There's other, uh, if you look through the Greer archive, there's other witnesses. It's actually really interesting to see witnesses who are going to talk to Greer and so forth, but then say they've been threatened with some really horrible crimes. Um, like really gross stuff. Yeah.
American Alchemy
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That if they continue to talk will happen.
American Alchemy
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I mean, it must be. Even looking at the testimony of Ed, he said 2009 to 2010, he was part of an Air Force-going public plan that was called off by a two-star general.
American Alchemy
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And this could all deal with the subject of ARVs. But real quick, you mentioned Dick Cheney. A little interesting factoid is there is a supposed S4 whistleblower named Derek Hennessey who claimed he was a Navy SEAL. He wasn't a Navy SEAL. I had this confirmed. So already not off to a good start. but he claimed he worked at S4 and sometime in the mid nineties that Dick Cheney came into S4.
American Alchemy
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But the funny connection there is that I can't remember the exact year, but Dick Cheney was actually going around to air bases around the U S to close up what he, what he didn't think was a, operating efficiently. So that's kind of a funny connection.
American Alchemy
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But Derek Hennessey lied about being a SEAL, so we don't know.
American Alchemy
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Right. But so we were talking about the ARV and the TR-3B. Yeah. And according to Fouché and so forth, that's not the only triangular alien reproduction vehicle. That's in kind of UFO lore. There's also, if you reference forensic artists, I've talked about this a few times, Bill McDonald, who's done a lot of work on drawing the Roswell craft.
American Alchemy
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He actually worked with Robert and Ryan Wood to create the two extraterrestrial biological entities mentioned in the Majestic document, the Special Operations Manual document.
American Alchemy
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In 1992, McDonald met with two Northrop and two Lockheed engineers who were fed up with the secrecy and classification of their work, who kind of dictated the drawing of a triangular ARV called the XF-131 Super Sentinel that operated off of like RCS radar cross-section facilities in the Mojave Desert.
American Alchemy
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And I've talked to McDonald about this, and he maintains the secrecy of these engineers to this day because I said, hey, can I talk to these people? But that design actually was featured in the first ever episode of The X-Files because I can't – Chris – Chris Carr. Yeah. Chris. Yeah. Contracted Bill McDonald to put that in the first car as a creator of the X-Files. Right.
American Alchemy
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Bill McDonald was contracted to put that in the first ever episode of the X-Files, which was allegedly based on true stories from John D'Souza. And that episode is about a triangular alien reproduction. triangular alien reproduction vehicle that's seen over an air force base. And it's the same design. I've put some featured some clips of that. That's so interesting.
American Alchemy
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Spielberg's new movie disclosure.
American Alchemy
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Then they really know. Cause TRW was bought by Northrop in 2002. Yeah. Right. And TRW was the contractor behind the Zodiac story, which was an alleged crash.
American Alchemy
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OK, I don't know. Interesting fact about TRW. Jacques Vallée has talked about Dr. Eric A. Walker. We talked about earlier being on the board of directors or a chairman of TRW as well.
American Alchemy
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So, yeah, I mean, Spielberg was dialed in with you have to go deep to talk about Skunk Works and TRW.
American Alchemy
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And was it Spielberg or Cameron that created the film The Abyss?
American Alchemy
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Okay, because that's also an interesting one about USO. Totally.
American Alchemy
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Because on one hand, you have films like Independence Day, which is just a bombastic action film glorified. But then on the other hand, you have very thoughtful projects like Close Encounters of the Third Kind and to an extent E.T. and as we know now, Back to the Future.
American Alchemy
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That's interesting that – because I've heard that idea floated around before that like colloquial men in black are almost like a non-human entity. Because I almost – I'd like to hear more about that because I almost stand on the other side. I straight up think the men in black in a sense are NSA spooks.
American Alchemy
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Gosh, that's a great question. And I think it's probably a very small, small portion of people. I think, like you talked about, elements of DOE and intelligence, CIA and I think even more so than CIA modern day, the National Security Agency, NSA. We know that the CIA deals with human or human intelligence. And we know the NSA deals with SIGINT or signals intelligence.
American Alchemy
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That is interesting that, you know, perhaps the two are not mutually exclusive because there's also stories like, have you heard of, of treat? It's the supposed men in black unit out of the NSA called the Tactical Reconnaissance Engineering Assessment Search Team, which was created by Stubblebine. And it's only ever been talked about by Fouché and Hans Adams, the crown prince of Lichtenstein.
American Alchemy
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I've only ever seen his, his discussions with like Greer and the emails on the DPI archive and looked up a few things about him and him mentioning treats. Besides that I have no idea because I would see that and I said crown prince of Lichtenstein a small central European company What have you what have you found out about him?
American Alchemy
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Sometimes I wonder about how and how much he'll commit to subjects, because under his tutelage and good friend, of course, is Eric Davis. And recently, like, as you know, Missile Man, myself and others talking to Eric Davis.
American Alchemy
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He said a lot of interesting things, but he also said a couple of things I disagree with. One, he said that the only FFRDC he knew of was the Aerospace Corporation, which I disagree with. But I think that's because he was only read into a subselection of legacy programs under OSAP. But he also said that alien reproduction vehicles don't exist.
American Alchemy
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As far as why I also say the NSA, so in my projects, I use as much publicly available research as humanly possible. I don't really like to say, well, a source told me this, a source told me this, even though there's quite a bit of people I talk to that will never make it on a video or never reveal their identity public. But This individual was in U.S. Army Office of Public Affairs.
American Alchemy
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Do you think there's aircraft systems that have kind of leveraged technologies?
American Alchemy
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Right. And I'm only left with two possibilities when I think about that. One is that he's lying. Two is that he was only read into a select subsection of programs that only overlapped Lockheed trying to get rid of Kingman materials. And thus he would not know about ARV because those weren't part of the program.
American Alchemy
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And I kind of lean towards, towards that explanation because I really don't agree with that assessment. And, uh, At the end of the interview, I had a little notebook with the flux liner on it. And I said, you know, Dr. Davis, you really haven't even considered this testimony of Mark McCandlish and the flux liner.
American Alchemy
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And he said, but right before we cut off, well, Hal Puthoff interviewed Brad Sorensen. And we never got to talk about that more. And to this day, I want to ask him so badly about how that went because Hal has spoken to Sorensen. Wow. And I just need to know how that goes.
American Alchemy
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I wish Hal could speak a little bit more candidly in an open setting because he's also super cagey in the program with James Fox. And he's also kind of integral to the story of Zodiac, the alleged crash retrieval program first introduced in UFO Magazine in 1998. Yeah. What is Zodiac? God, that's a really interesting one.
American Alchemy
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So in 1998, UFO Magazine published a story by pseudonym Greg Halifax about Sedge Masters, a story about somebody who is brought into a UFO crash retrieval program called Zodiac. This occurred in 1988, 2001 or 2002. There's an email chain with how put off Kit Green and Eric Davis talking about the Santilli alien autopsy film and so forth.
American Alchemy
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And Kit Green saying he saw different pictures of an alien autopsy. But then in a later thread in that email, somebody, one of the three brings up Zodiac and the sedge master's story.
American Alchemy
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And most of this work needs to be credited to, of course, Richard Dolan, who actually tracked down the very likely author of the Zodiac story and puts a lot of faith that the Zodiac was indeed a crash retrieval program and it was operated by TRW.
American Alchemy
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So that's just a fascinating story how even – it seems like everything kind of post-2000 or post-1995, Hal, Eric, and Kit – What is the core story of Zodiac? Like what is – It's essentially the Majestic 12 by another name. Because the Majestic 12, for people who don't know, was introduced under – The Majestic 12 documents first appeared in 1984 in a film canister to TV producer Jamie Chandra.
American Alchemy
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And this included the Eisenhower briefing document and later the special operations manual and then a whole host of other documents. And this details the Majestic 12, a supposed UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering group spearheaded by Vannevar Bush, including Roscoe Hillencoder, Dr. Donald Menzel, I think his name is.
American Alchemy
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He served in the mid 2010s and he said, like, I'm not really afraid of the CIA, but what I'm terrified of is the NSA. So I think if I had to wager, it'd be elements of the NSA pulling a lot of strings.
American Alchemy
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And so, you know, Majestic 12, Zodiac 12, 12 signs. Some might suggest in the realm of UFO study that Zodiac is another name for Majestic 12, just like Majestic 12 has been called other names, like the Working Group, the PI-40 by that guy A.H. we talked about with Greer. So it's a super interesting story that I hope sees more coverage because—
American Alchemy
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Richard Dolan has been a true trailblazer in the Zodiac story. And it's just kind of like the secret retrieval team. So to be quite plain, after talking with Ryan Wood, I think the Majestic 12 did exist in a capacity and probably still exists today. But I am hesitant to think about like a very ubiquitous crash retrieval team.
American Alchemy
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I think that there's a very wide swath of retrieval teams and retrieval operations.
American Alchemy
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The only thing I know is that John B, Colonel John B. Alexander said that the majestic 12 was specifically a continuity of government program. Right. But I hasten to adhere to what he says because he lied about the special operations manual.
American Alchemy
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1997 was when the Greer, Will Miller, Thomas Wilson, Stephen Lovekin meeting took place. The briefing took place.
American Alchemy
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He was like intelligence for JCS at the time.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. Yeah. Cause John Alexander has been publicly said, Oh, majestic 12 exists that had nothing to do with UFOs and, uh, kind of, all of that before. And of course he kind of said myths, truths about what Dr. Ryan would said about the special operations manual.
American Alchemy
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Ryan would, and Robert would did a ton of provenance research on the, on the majestic documents, getting the physical onion skin documents, putting them through rigorous testing of materials.
American Alchemy
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Because there's a whole host of documents and the source cannot be all from the same person. and a bunch of varying quality documents. I tend to adhere to the work of Stanton Friedman, who spent a bunch of time authenticating the Special Operations Manual and Eisenhower briefing document with the Woods.
American Alchemy
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I think those two probably have the strongest claims of real documents, as well as the two IPU, Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit reports. One of them is a seven-page report that sounds very similar to the Eisenhower briefing document and talks about the Roswell crash retrieval and so forth.
American Alchemy
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Later on down the line, you get a lot of other documents like the burned memo and the project Aquarius document from Lee Graham, the, uh, burned memo or the project Aquarius. One of them, I can't remember which actually makes reference to project Zodiac by the way, and like project Jehovah and MK ultra, but.
American Alchemy
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A lot of the earlier documents, like the Eisenhower briefing document, a lot of the dates and specific discussions line up with real events. For example, James Forrestal meeting with Truman, dates are mentioned when those two met and kind of discussed the future... the inception of majestic 12 and so forth.
American Alchemy
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If you look in the library of Truman library, library of Eisenhower, when he's supposedly briefed these presidents and president incumbents, I believe Dulles's diary recently came out and it showed a meeting with him and Eisenhower or something.
American Alchemy
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And then there were other documents like the Cutler-Twining memo that is really difficult to dispute and so forth. I was actually reading on the plane over here different validation of majestic documents. And there's just been a lot of mentions of... uh, majestic documents before even including a, I can't remember the general's name, but a four star general who was asked about the documents.
American Alchemy
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He said, they're real. Like the majestic 12 is real. I can't tell you any more than that. Cause I, cause I know that the majestic 12 to many sort of hobbyists in this subject is nothing more than kind of conspiracy material, right? They just think majestic 12 may, you know, not true.
American Alchemy
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And then, of course, Vannevar Bush is completely unconnected with Robert Sarbacher and Dr. Eric A. Walker, as also mentioned as the head of UFO research.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. And You know, it's not unreasonable to think that the group evolved over time, changed names and so forth. I mean, you have in 1987 or 86 or 87 when Eric Walker is asked by Steinman about the Majestic 12 and he gives the Don Quixote impersonation, you're chasing after windmills. It's impossible to chase after the Majestic 12.
American Alchemy
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The Majestic documents were first delivered to Chandra and Friedman and so forth in 1984. That's when the first documents were actually delivered. uh, kind of received, but weren't given to like a MUFON symposium until 87. What's interesting is the documents were kind of mailed out in 84.
American Alchemy
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And then if we look at the research or look at the manuscript of Corso, it kind of seems like around 86, the majestic 12 took on a new name, the UFO working group and got new blood, like, uh, like Albert Stubblebine and some NSA people and some CIA people.
American Alchemy
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So it's interesting to think how this group may have evolved over time and possibly it changed its name to The Working Group because it was aware of the leaks at the time.
American Alchemy
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Yeah, I've heard that from Grush.
American Alchemy
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um and you have other examples you know you mentioned forestall forestall you know was as well and he was secretary of the navy so he threw himself out of the naval hospital in bethesda yeah exactly mid sophocles poem he yeah and the magenta case is so interesting because mussolini thought it was a nazi advanced craft or a british or american advanced craft when he had his own special investigation group the rs-33 who was like really keen on the fact this wasn't human technology and then
American Alchemy
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I'd love to hear of more of a description because the only real description we have is from the RS-33, like a disc and then grush like a lenticular shape. And that begs the question when we brought over Operation Paperclip Scientists, so Nazi scientists, if there's kind of a collaboration in crash retrieval groups today.
American Alchemy
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And even in 2023, you had a Canadian defense member or parliament member, Larry McGuire, who wrote to the head of Canadian defense, wanting to bring the Canadian people up to speed on UFO programs because there was an active Five Eyes nation that was working together on uh, material exploitation and so forth.
American Alchemy
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I wonder how much that collaboration takes place because, you know, in Grush's News Nation interview, he talks about like a multi-decade Cold War with our adversaries we can assume is Russia and China. I think back to Jonathan Weygand's encounter in 97 in Peru. Once he sees the UFO, he's taken in by these guys in DOE rain jackets. He's flown to a place on a CH-47, interrogated for days.
American Alchemy
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When he's brought to this location, this obscure military base, there's not only Americans there, but there's Chinese, there's Germans. And so who else is collaborating on these projects if there's a multi-decade Cold War?
American Alchemy
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Yeah. And then we look at, uh, you know, of course there's a lot of drama about this, but the immaculate constellation report that talks about alien reproduction vehicles seen over Indo PAC com, which is obviously Chinese territory, right? Like equilateral triangles with three lights seen it over Chinese territory of, of adversarial ARV.
American Alchemy
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So it's clear there's similar programs going on if we have similar triangles. What sort of collaboration is occurring?
American Alchemy
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It was also Army Futures Command.
American Alchemy
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Yeah, for feudalistic dominance. So that begs the question, is the ultimate pursuit mastery of ARV? Because with ARV might not just be the vehicle, but it might be any sort of weapon or technology that can be exploited as weaponry. Remember what Randy said when he was taking the crane, that the technology was considered weaponry due to an electronic discharge during retrieval.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. I completely agree. I think back to the 1988 Norton show as well. When Brad saw the Pulsar craft with 121 nuclear warheads, the guys were raving on about how this could destroy Russia in like 20 minutes, raving on about that. And then on the other side of the curtain, you have saucers that utilize zero point energy systems that, that could,
American Alchemy
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drop a nuclear payload in a quarter of a second, or the zero-point energy systems can be harnessed to create more devastating effects than even nuclear warheads.
American Alchemy
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That's what Ed, witness Ed out of Edward's head, part of the reason he reached out to Greer is because zero-point energy systems were being harnessed and repressed.
American Alchemy
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I'm not sure because I don't understand the physics enough. There's always a world in which these energy systems could be powering deep underground military bases, and we just don't know about it, that it's already employed on the system at large. But my knowledge is we need to call up Missile Man and ask him his advice on this part because I just don't know enough.
American Alchemy
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Yeah, but not not enough. Yeah, I've just been interested in this subject all of my life. And my goal really is just the work I would like to do. in a responsible manner, help disclose UAP legacy programs and bring a larger truth about what the craft are, not just what they look like, but
American Alchemy
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Where they're from, what they do, why they're here, and how the programs that study and exploit these technologies have been constructed. Because there's a lot of very dark things in that aspect. Not only just the decades of secrecy, but also just the exploitation of possible sentient beings and technology that is not ours.
American Alchemy
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Yeah, that's the contentious thing we talked about as well with Jake and kind of Michael in that testimony with the psionics. Because we have historical testimony that these psionic assets used to summon craft are treated like crap. you know, given drug cocktails and so forth to perform efficiently. And that could result in danger or death.
American Alchemy
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And we also have Jake and the psionics team saying they take, you know, quite a bit of, of pride in those actions. So there's a discrepancy there. And if there's people like being, being hurt or, you know, being given drugs forcibly, that's. That's bad. It's very bad.
American Alchemy
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Look into the, stare into the void and it stares back.
American Alchemy
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I mean, it's also very poignant, like looking at the testimony of Corso as well. He said that the purpose of giving this technology to U.S. industry was A, to bolster the U.S. war machine, and B, benefit the American people if necessary.
American Alchemy
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These technologies clearly have not been used to benefit the American people, but if they're used to create alien reproduction vehicles, which I believe they are, and
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possibly service an unidentified space program or, you know, in near Earth orbit defense capabilities or payload delivery or human relocation, as Michael saw with the large football field sized eight gone craft or operate underground and deep underground military bases. It's clear that that's a very disturbing reality in which we live.
American Alchemy
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Because that's 80 years of programs, right, that have had time to flourish and hide themselves and like layer on themselves. That's a very frightening world.
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Yeah. But it's like for the 45 minute special that had to be like on the editing.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. Jake, that was awesome. Yeah. And then with, of course, I thought one of the most underappreciated testimonies was Don Paul Bales as well. Oh, yeah. Works closely with Jake. He talked very poignantly on retrieval and implications of crash retrieval. And so that started to kind of refocus the conversation with that, with Fred Baker, with Dr. John Blitch.
American Alchemy
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Yeah, you're right. Mainstream media could not get less.
American Alchemy
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And then there's also a big pickup in social media categories of kind of discrediting all the stories coming out and whistleblowers so forth. Like I've even noticed a larger concentration of revisiting and kind of discrediting Grush as well, who I find beyond reproach. probably more than anybody else.
American Alchemy
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And I think, I think his disclosure was done in the, his disclosures were done in the, in the greatest manner possible, where if you have disclosures, but can't necessarily provide firsthand evidence, he provided so much actionable intelligence. Yeah.
American Alchemy
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whether to pursue IRAD contracts, IDIQ contracts, embedding of programs, history of programs, certain retrieval incidents, Malmstrom Air Force Base incidents. He provided so much actionable intelligence.
American Alchemy
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The only knocks people have against Grush is the Ken Klipstein hit piece or the fact his op-ed didn't come out.
American Alchemy
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There was a lot of talk about, like, the combat controller pipeline, even though that Jake has said numerous times he was in the pipeline for combat controller, but then was diverted elsewhere.
American Alchemy
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I think part of this is as well, there's like some popularity to go against kind of the, the disclosure movement and, and, There's like a couple of like prominent channels that really base their entire, um, and entire fame off of just debunking everything, like almost pre debunking stuff. Like a teaser of Jake Barber would come out and they'd already be debunking stuff. It,
American Alchemy
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The Cabal stuff is nonsense because it's all talked about in the frame of ATIP and OSAP, which, as we've talked about throughout this whole conversation, there's going back to Robert Sarbacher in 1950 and even before in 1933 with Mussolini. There are so many other players involved.
American Alchemy
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There might be a lot of reoccurring players that we've also talked about as well in recent disclosures, but the circular reporting, this crash retrieval and reverse engineering is not isolated to a small group of people.
American Alchemy
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And that's starting to pop back up with some of Rick Doty's disciples. Like the guy, I think he's in prison who tweets all the time. Like, let me show you a photo of an extraterrestrial and it'll just be a random image.
American Alchemy
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I don't know. So that's, that's starting to pop back up.
American Alchemy
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That's similar to like Tim Taylor, right? He said some of the ideas for his businesses came via like unknown downloads to his head. Isn't that what Diana Pasolka has kind of said around him and his work?
American Alchemy
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Well, also step back and study the subject a little more. Because even if you're not ready to make the jump into crash retrievals and reverse engineering yet, go back, look at the history of Sign Grudge, Blue Book, OSAP. Go look at numerous sightings, mass sightings. Just go... Go through a long list of UFO sightings and projects in the 20th century. Yeah. And start there.
American Alchemy
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I mean, there's not the Condon Committee, but the Condon Report from England, Project Magnet, Project Second Story, Grudge Sign, Blue Book, all sorts of UFO programs around the world. Numerous sightings, private corporations contracted to look at UFOs and Battelle.
American Alchemy
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Clearly it is. And if you're still just trying to figure out do UFOs exist, just go look at all the dang military reports of pilots and so forth citing UFOs. Like Malmstrom case, people dismiss that, but that's a great one to study. Minot Air Force Base in which I think a B-2 bomber encountered a saucer flying around it, de-elevating. There's so many stories.
American Alchemy
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Just go read through the Blue Book files of the unexplained cases.
American Alchemy
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Yeah. As Eric Davis says, there's a there there.
American Alchemy
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Nothing really. There's so much stuff we could talk about. I just say to everybody, keep investigating crash retrievals and reverse engineering. There's a ton of interesting cases and interesting studies and corporations and military requirements. And send out FOIA requests as well. A no answer and a denial is always an answer within itself.
American Alchemy
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Well, we'll save that because I plan to talk to that guy soon. But it's a person who was stationed with the USAF who claimed to see a Tic Tac. A Tic Tac. That's right. Unloaded from a C-130 Hercules.
American Alchemy
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And there's a lot of good research there as well.
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Oh, just that this, this incident. Yeah. There's a, because of course this guy, when, when I studied this case, he doesn't have photos or reports on the actual craft, but the information he can share, which is like the insignia on the C one 30 and on the nearby vans, just even, even just the C one 30 that unloads the Tic Tac and knowing what military wing that's from can, can,
American Alchemy
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lead to such bountiful research? Because then you can look where the C-130 is from. You can look at nearby contractors. You can look at nearby airwings. You can look at nearby FFRDCs and start to piece together some interesting stuff based off the testimony.
American Alchemy
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Well, it's been an interesting year so far, right? With all kind of the mention of, of psionics. I mean, I'm sure I speak for a lot of people. Uh, when I, when I speak for myself here, I don't really like to use the word nuts and bolts. I think it's super cliche and overplayed, but Kind of my focus is in legacy program research, crash retrieval, reverse engineering, stuff like that.
American Alchemy
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So the whole psionics territory with Jake and stuff is still uncomfortable territory for me, but there's still so many lines of research and stuff I do that harken back to this. One example is Philip J. Corso. I recently did a project on Corso. Corso stated that in 1960, he was recruited to the U.S. Army's Foreign Technology Division.
American Alchemy
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This isn't to be confused with the Air Force's Foreign Technology Division. Two separate things under Lieutenant General Arthur Trudeau. Now, the Foreign Technology Division, there's no records of it. It's similar to the Army's Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit that probably only exists through institutional record. There's no record, but...
American Alchemy
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Yeah, 47 to 50, and that was first confirmed in 1986 to UFO researcher William Steinman. Exactly. In the majestic documents, there's an IPU report, Interplanetary Phenomena Unit report, and an IPU field order. Two documents, still disputed, but...