Sterling K. Brown

And so when people talk to me about it, they're always talking about the tears that the show caused. But I think both of those things are true. So I felt like in that scene, like you have to be able to You can't live too much in one tone. Otherwise, the show becomes monotonous. So you're able to go in and you give this man the peace of your mind.

But at the same time, all you really want is to be in relationship. And so you see that front-facing anger towards this man. But really what he wants is to be understood, to understand why he left in the first place, and ultimately to be loved.

Yes. First of all, yes. And I would say even predating all of those beautiful souls transpiring was my own father, who passed away at the age of 45. And so I've thought about it since then, when I was only 10 years old. And my brother and I will have this conversation. My brother's 14 years older than me, so he's 61 now.

And he'll always say that, you know, no black men in our family have lived beyond age 65. And I remember thinking that, like, that may be true for them, but it does not have to be true for us. And so I've been very conscientious in terms of health and lifestyle choices that I try to make for myself to be here for as long as possible.

I have two beautiful boys, Andrew, 12, Amari, 8, and I want to be here to experience and enjoy them as much as possible. And beyond them, I'm looking forward to, if they indeed have children, to being able to enjoy and experience those young people as well.

So some things are out of our control, Terry, but the things that are within our control in terms of diet and exercise, in terms of water consumption or whatever else there is out there, I try to make myself as informed as possible so I can be around in the healthiest version of myself for as long as I possibly can.

Akuna Matata. I will try to synthesize and make it as concise as possible. My dad is one of the most beautiful people that I had an opportunity to know in my life. And it was a short time. But it was full and meaningful. I was my dad's only son. I have other siblings, but I am my dad's only son.

And my mom would often come up to my dad, whose name is Sterling Brown Jr., and say, like, Sterling, you're going to spoil that boy. But I tell you what, the love that he poured into me is still with me. There are specific moments of interactions that we have. I would sit and watch boxing matches and football matches with my dad.

Those were his two favorite sports, so they're probably kind of my two favorite sports as well. We would wash his car outside where he'd play his Michael McDonald 8-track in the pink Eldorado Cadillac as we washed it. And we'd listen to, like, I keep forgetting how you made it so good. You know, whatever it was. We have moments of bliss. that are so ingrained into my soul.

Terry, thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to be here.

And while you don't remember all of the specifics, you remember they're like, that man loved me as much as any human being could love another human being.

Correct.

So my mom tells a famous story. She said, when I was in kindergarten and I had to spell out my name for the teacher, I came back home and I said, Mom, I think I'm going to go by Kelby. And I said, because Kelby is five letters and Sterling is eight, and it's just way faster for me to get through. I told her, I said, when I'm 16, though, you can call me Sterling again. Now, I didn't remember this.

My dad passed away when I was 10, almost 11. And it had been about five years that I hadn't heard his name in my life on a regular basis. And honestly, Terry, it was just like I wanted to hear his name. I wanted to hear the name of Sterling. So I said, hey, guys, could you call me Sterling now? Because I just wanted to.

Maybe I felt like I and I think I really grieved my father about five years after his passing away. I think for the first five years, I felt like I had to be the man of the house. I had to keep it together for my mom. I also believed that my father and still believe that my father ascended to heaven so that he was in a better place.

But that still didn't allow me the space to like really just be like, I miss you. I miss this man. And so I think it took about five years for me to fully let that out. And then after I let that out, I was like, OK, I'm ready to hear his name again.

Absolutely. I found it definitely when I got to Hollywood in the early 2000s that the idea of being intelligent was something that I needed to shed. Many casting directors would be like, he's got this smart guy thing. If he can lose that, then he'll be much more castable.

Good question. They were not teenagers. They were babies. And so my Aunt Vera, who I adore, she's always my mom's little sister, was the collector of things in her family's life, like pets and stuff. And she got a new cat. She got a new dog. But my Aunt Vera was also dealing with substance abuse issues at that particular time in her life.

So, she would get a dog, go to the Humane Society, get a dog, get a cat or whatever, and then she would be gone for a while. So, then that dog or cat became somebody else's. My aunt was also fostering my little brother, Robert, who is now 25 or 26 years old, just had a birthday. And she was fostering, and then she went missing forever. for a period of two weeks.

She had dropped my little brother off at my mom's house and my mom called the social worker after a day and said, listen, I want you to know this little boy is here with me. Social worker came to the house and said, are you okay to keep him? And my mom said, yes, absolutely. So then my mom became the foster parent for my little brother, Robert.

Then the birth mother for Robert, who was dealing with substance issues herself, was pregnant with twins. my little sister Ariel and my little sister Avery. And the social worker said, would you be willing to take on these twins as well? And my mom said, yes. Now, I don't mention my little sister Avery that much because early on in her life, she passed away from SIDS.

And it was very difficult for my mom. She's like, why would God bring these children into my life to have one of them pass away? And for a minute was wondering whether or not she would wind up keeping them. But after a moment of just saying, like, my life is more full and rich with them in it than without them, she decided to continue fostering.

And then another two years later, wound up going through the formal adoption process. And so my brother Robert and my little sister Ariel have been with us For 25 and 23 years now, and my little sister Avery, similar to Kyle is the young man's name in This Is Us, the third of the triplets that didn't make it, went on to sing with the angels.

Yeah. I have quite a mom, I have to say that too. She's an extraordinary human being.

I think that similar to what you were saying in your intro with regards to the kinds of stories that folks were willing to put money into had to deal with Black folks overcoming certain adversities and dealing with certain traumas.

My mother is still alive. And here's an interesting one. I don't talk about it that often, but I'm talking about it more now because I think that The universe is calling me into some sort of action, and I'm still figuring out what that is. My mom was diagnosed with ALS in April of 2018. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Diagnosed in April of 2018.

She lost the ability to speak in October of 2018. And I think has far exceeded the expectations of most doctors in terms of lifespan because she's still with us and about to go into 2024. But the joy that my mom is able to hold on to in the midst of this incredibly debilitating disease, the smile that she still has for the people who walk into her sphere is radiant. Right.

And it shows you, it shows me, that first of all, I don't have to allow circumstances to dictate how I am in the world, that I still have choice. I may not have choice over what the circumstances are, but how I respond to them. And my mom has been a shining example of how to maintain radiance in the midst of a very difficult situation.

And I think that that was also linked to a certain socioeconomic wash that they thought was appropriate for how blackness needed to be portrayed in order to be, quote unquote, authentic.

I may have lost some of y'all, but you know, Google it. And 19 years ago, Detective Frank Pimbleton held this joint. As impeccably played by Andre Brown. I just want to say, Mr. Brower, whether it is at Stanford University or on this Emmy stage, it is my supreme honor to follow in your footsteps. I want to thank Bob Greenblatt, Jennifer Salke to NBC for your support from the beginning.

Oh, my goodness.

The fact that you played that through to the end was priceless because I was thinking in my mind, I was like, this is when I got cut off, isn't it? Yes. I remember thinking that I saw earlier in that show Nicole Kidman had won Best Actress in a Limited Series. And I remember thinking, I was like, okay. I was listening to her speech.

I was like, oh man, this speech is taking a little bit longer than the average speech is. But they're giving her a little bit of latitude. So I was like, okay, that's cool. And I was sort of like clocking it on my phone. on my watch, I was like, okay, my speech isn't that long, so I should be okay.

Yes. I think at that point in time in my life, Terry, the most important thing was being able to pour back into my community in a way that was substantial. And the primary way that felt most substantial was through financial resources. So... My goal was to make money. I felt like my mom sent me to this fancy college prep school, and I got into Stanford University.

And before I came what I thought was close to that length, I was like, oh my goodness, they're not gonna play me off. Like it's really, it's not gonna happen. I was like, let me just keep talking and I'll get a chance to finish what I need to say. And I was sort of surprised because like the microphone, they literally pulled it into the ground. As if to say like, bro.

It physically, like it came, you know, like it had a hole in the ground that it started to retract back into. Oh, that's so funny.

They physically lowered it and it was like, it's time for you to go, sir. And I was a little in my feelings. I'll be perfectly honest, Terry. But I was like, okay, I still won, and I still got a chance to share with a lot of the people what it is that I want to share. You always, in these situations, you always want to thank your wife. So I was like, oh, man.

My wife is going to be so mad that I didn't thank her. But I know she knows that I love her and that if I had more time, I would have got there. So, yeah, I was in sort of a state of shock more than anything else. Like, they're really going to play me off.

You know, that's what I was thinking to myself.

No, no, completely spontaneous.

But thank you. Those speeches, when you're blessed and have an opportunity to win something, you want to be able to say something that sticks to people's ribs. And I felt like it was a bit of history in terms of I was the first black man to win that particular award, Best Lead Actor in a Dramatic Series, in over 19 years.

And the fact that it came after Andre Brouwer meant all that much more to me because he's been somebody who I've been looking up to the entirety of my career. Since I started acting at Stanford University and people said, you know, Andre Brouwer went here. And I did some research and saw the wonderful things that he did in terms of Shakespeare in the Park, all of his stage stuff.

And that glory had just come out. And so you got a chance to see him do his thing in that. And Homicide Life on the Street was happening. And by the time I got to NYU, a TV show called Gideon's Crossing was on ABC. And he was the main character in that. And so everywhere I went, I would see Gideon.

This man doing this incredible work with this incredible integrity, the way that he carried himself through the work, not just the work itself, but just his presence meant something. I was like, if I can represent the way that that man has represented, you'll be doing something all right.

I didn't read the comic growing up. But I did when I graduated from NYU. Reginald Hudlin had done a new series of the Black Panther comic series. And it was entitled Who is the Black Panther? And it was a series about five graphic novels that I consumed and loved because I didn't know about T'Challa until I was 25 years old.

And then as I was working on a TV show with a friend of mine called Army Wives, he asked me, he goes, are you into any comics? I said, you know what, not hugely, but I am into this Black Panther comic. And I showed him my collection. And he goes, dude. He goes, you should try to get the rights to this so you can make the movie.

And I told my buddy, Drew, I said, dude, they're never going to make a black superhero movie. Get out of here. And then fast forward. I was like, I should have got the rights.

So I auditioned for it and I felt like I did a good job. And I had a meeting with Ryan Coogler, the director of Black Panther. And he goes, listen, you're not quite right for this one role who is of the tribe that is sort of outside of Wakanda because he gets to be a big guy. But there's a role that we have that I think requires a really good actor.

I felt like the most important thing that I could do to show my appreciation is make sure that I was able to be a contributing member of the family, a contributing member of the community in terms of financial resources. So I said, what better way to make money than to be an economics major, learn what money does, and Right.

And it's not a lot of scene time, but it's important. It sort of like sets the narrative into place. And I said, bruh, how can I be down? Because I knew it was going to be a cultural moment. Because it was something that I could not have conceived of 15 years earlier when I was reading the comic books that was now actually coming to life. And it was not just coming to life.

It was coming to life with... the most zeitgeisty movie studio in Hollywood. Like the Marvel Cinematic Universe was unstoppable at that particular time. And the fact that they were going to put their eggs into the basket of telling the story of the Black Panther was enormous. So for me, it wasn't a matter of like, oh, I can't get the part that I wanted. I was like, this is going to be huge.

Whatever it is that I can do to be a part of it, I am happy. And it turned out to be a great role where all of my friends, of course, would be like, oh, man, I can't believe they killed you so fast. Spoiler alert.

I can't believe they killed you. Spoiler alert. I had to get back to my day job as well. So the fact that I was able to moonlight everything. and something that did wind up making history. It's something that I get a chance to celebrate until the day that I pass away. I'm so honored that I got a chance to be in that film.

Yes.

And what I found through my first year at Stanford and through this internship at the Federal Reserve Bank was that while I was good with numbers, I wasn't really interested or passionate about numbers. The inner workings of what it took to make money. Like money in and of itself wasn't a driving force for me that motivated me to continue.

Yeah.

People bleed in there every day. We have to sanitize it by law.

Did you kill him? No.

I didn't want to drive drunk, so I took a cab. And you didn't have your phone? I left it charging in my office, and I didn't realize until I was already out of the building.

I'm talking about your phone. Why does it matter that I forgot it? Oh, if I had it on me, you could have seen it pinging off the cell tower. Doesn't matter. Didn't have it on me.

But let me ask you this. Did you kill him? Nah. You know, it's not surprising nobody remembers seeing me. The bar was extremely crowded that night, and I spent my whole time in the corner talking to this woman, Dana.

Thank you very much. It made me smile just listening to it. It was so much fun to do.

Yeah, it is just dogged repetition. And you show up. One thing you learn in the world of television is that you don't get a lot of rehearsals. So you do a lot of that work on your own by yourself so that when you come to the set, you're ready to dance. And you know that Andy and Andre are going to be ready to go. So you're like, all right, let me not be the weak link in this threesome here.

Let me show up ready to play ball the same way as everybody else. And they make it so much fun. that it sort of just happens naturally. You'll go over the scene a couple of times before the cameras start rolling, and then you'll start to do it or whatnot. And if there's a little bit of a hiccup, it's just like anything else, you'll take it back to the beginning and you'll do it again.

And you just breathe, Terry. I think for me more than anything else is that when you try to stay in the moment, the next moment has a way of taking care of itself. When you're trying to project to the future and be like, oh, I hope I make it to this crescendo at the very, very end, then you sort of like wind up missing what's happening just right now. Take it moment to moment.

In life, on stage, on screen is usually the best recipe to get to the end of anything. That's what I try to do as a performer. I think those two gentlemen in particular are wonderful at it. And so they made it easy for me to join in the symphony.

Terry, the pleasure has been all mine. Thank you for having me, and I look forward to doing it again.

I couldn't see a life just making money if I wasn't doing something that excited me or ignited me in a more passionate, spiritual, holistic sort of way.

Great question. And it's something that I thought about for a while. And so when I told my mom that I was going to change my major, I knew that she would probably have some questions for me in terms of why I wanted to do it. But most importantly, I had to let her know that I prayed about it. And I said, yes, ma'am, I had. And I felt led.

And that gave her permission to give me permission to dive into it without any sort of regrets or second questionings.

Correct.

Ladies and gentlemen, to grasp this crime, you must first understand Mr. Simpson's relationship to his ex-wife, Nicole. It was a ticking time bomb. The fuse was lit in 1985, the very year they were married. Officers responded after Mr. Simpson beat Nicole and took a baseball bat to her Mercedes. Then in 1989, Nicole had to call 911 again, fearing for her life.

When officers arrived, Nicole ran towards them, yelling, he's going to kill me.

In her torn bra, Nicole pleaded with the officers, you've come up here eight times. You never do anything about it. And they want to tell you that the police conspired against Mr. Simpson. This case is not about the N-word. It is about OJ Simpson and the M-word, murder. Now, I'm not afraid to point to him and say he did it. Why not? The evidence all points to him.

In February 1992, Nicole filed for divorce. She was running away from the man who said he'd kill her. She saw the explosion coming. Why else fill a safe deposit box with threatening letters from the defendant, a will, and police photos of past beatings? She knew that the bomb could go off at any second. And then it did.

And he was also one hell of a great football player. But he's still a murderer.

I'm going to be honest and say, like, it was... it was a second consideration. It wasn't the first thing on my mind. I think that was sort of what a lot of us were experiencing was that we wanted the criminal justice system to work in favor of someone who looked like us because we were accustomed to it working against us. But in terms of like seeing someone beat the system

who doesn't typically beat the system, I think that was the driving factor, at least for me, in terms of why I rejoiced in his innocence at the time, in the not guilty verdict, right? And it was such a strange thing to step into, Terry, having been so pro-OJ and anti-Darden, right?

as a young person to have an opportunity to step into that other person's shoes and experience life from their perspective. And it was me and my friend, Sarah Paulson, had the best time on that show because she would read Marsha's book. I would read Chris's book. We would read excerpts to one another. We would go over the evidence and the evidence is pretty overwhelming because I'll say this.

Correct. And the way that it was set up even... In the room, in the courtroom, like we had sort of crappy kind of chairs and the dream team had like these spinning swivel chairs that had like nice armrests on them and everything. And Sarah and I would look over at them and we're like, I'm going to beat these bastards.

You know what I mean? Like completely convinced that we were going to sort of like retell the trial and it was going to come out the way that we wanted it to.

Absolutely. Hands down, 100%. He was persona non grata, as far as I was concerned. Like, you're trying to take down one of our heroes. I think that's the way... A lot of black folks will relate to people who quote unquote make it.

Celebrity or otherwise, but particularly celebrity and particularly at that time, we have so few people that are able to make it to a level of esteem, notoriety, what have you. That the idea that the system, the man that, you know, America is trying to bring them down and that a black man got attached to being Christopher Darden to the wrong side.

This felt like, why are you allowing them to use you? That was definitely my perspective at age 18 or 19 when it happened.

Yes. That's a yes to both of them. the DNA evidence is overwhelming. My perspective as a human being has shifted in terms of, also in terms of playing Christopher Darden, like who was the voice for the people who were murdered? They don't have anyone to speak for them. And so someone has to do it, right? Even getting into Darden's book in terms of being a prosecutor, he was like,

We need to have a black presence in all facets of law enforcement, whether that is as police, whether that is as prosecutors, as defense attorneys, like a presence in all of those things means that we can work from the inside. And I think that that is sort of an admirable perspective that he has on how law enforcement can work at its best.

So that was one of the audition scenes for the show.

No, no, no. Auditioned by myself, you know. So in that scene, I remember thinking that what I understood from reading the pilot of the show, and what was very sort of surprising in terms of how it landed on people ultimately, was that it made me laugh from beginning to end. And so I was always sort of focused on the amount of light That the show had.

We'll find out. We'll find out, right?

And we were like, yeah, man, we like to do some funny, we flex every once in a while.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then you showed up at the thing.

What up, Sue?

And I was like, I was like, I was like, I said to myself, I said, Brown, how charming can you be to try to keep people on the line while you're telling this woman Let me tell you, let me tell you, it was...

Sterling!

Who's that sports player? I can't remember. LeBron.

And it like took him a second and he was like, yeah, yes, yes, of course.

Right.

Okay.

Okay. Heavy hitters.

Be real.

Is that exactly what you did? You said, y'all got any notes?

Thank you.

Wenn jemand Charles und Melanie gesagt hätte, dass sie nach ihrem Tinder-Match gemeinsam einen Channel mit crazy Aufgaben starten, also wirklich crazy, fünf Tage auf einer einsamen Insel verbringen, eine Zipline an einem Gurt runterrasen, eine Million Views knacken, eine Wand mit Saugnöpfen hochklettern und Fallschirmspringen in Ägypten? Das hätten die beiden niemals geglaubt.

Aber das ist das Ding mit Tinder. Es führt dich an Orte, die du nie erwartet hättest. Wohin es dich auch führt. It starts with a swipe. Tinder.

Yeah.

And Rebecca's making, I'm guessing, some sort of like chicken soup, right?

Yeah, go for it. You know what, it would be great if you could make the soup.

I'm effing pissed, but you go for it. She calls me bunny, which really annoys Rebecca. It's like, I don't look like a bunny.

Yeah. Bunnies aren't even cute.

It's just an easy, cozy thing to slip into. They're little bugs.

But this, too, yes, I was like, wow, I remember... I remember this episode. I remember filming this episode.

Not before the laundry list of like, there is a straw that breaks the camel's back.

What was it?

Yes. Correct. I don't remember what it was exactly.

Yes, I know the laundry list of things, but I don't know what it is that eventually... It just got to a point where Rebecca's like... It was one thing after the other. It was like, you know what? You want to talk about it? Let's talk about it. Because I think she calls me out. She brings it up.

And I'm like, this is what you do. You come here, you criticize me. You say my house is too dirty by...

So she goes through all of this and kind of leaves it with like, they're all my kids. You constantly separate Randall and the twins. And it's become like abundantly clear to me that you're racist. Mom, I'm sorry, like I have to call that out. just as sweet Randall is walking downstairs because he's figured out his project.

I do. I remember because, you know, it's a tricky situation. And we can get into the logistics of it.

And he has his first chicken pock. And he's scratching and he wants to show me.

me having this conversation with my mom at all in general. And it was just like, as I wasn't a parent yet, but looking at it through that lens now, I'm just sort of like, oh, you can, like, I just want to, like, I don't know what the next move would be other than like, I have to get him out of this situation, out of this space.

But, you know, I will just say it was tricky because of the racism storyline and wanting to be mindful of a young person and be respectful and make sure everybody was comfortable because Lonnie, sweet Lonnie, had to walk in on my mother and I having this fight where I essentially call her out for being a racist. and really ostracizing Randall from Kevin and Kate.

So the holidays are officially right around the corner. The best time of year, the most exciting time of year. I'm sure all of you guys have travel plans.

What a great way to get to know a city. I love that.

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but it does lead to she- And Jack have a conversation with Randall where they talk about MLK and he's like, wait, so grandma shot MLK?

But the crazy thing is, you know, he leaves somewhat satisfied with the answer that they gave. And the two of them look at each other like,

Like that wasn't, that didn't go well.

Yeah. Rebecca's like, she's down there. And Jack's like, oh, no, no, no, no. I don't care that I'm sick, that I have the chicken pox now. We're not going to be held hostage in our own house. Like, I'm going to shovel her car out of the snow and let her get the heck out of here.

Yes.

It does tie back in. And, you know, before grandma leaves...

he talks about how his project finally works for the science fair and do they want to see it and you know mom and and grandma kind of like peek into his room and she's like you're a very special young man and like without skipping a beat sweet young randall goes took you long enough took you long enough i got a little same i was like yep he didn't he didn't wait he was like yeah

And it's a very delicate conversation.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I've been here.

Yeah, it was a great, great episode, a hard episode. Let's jump to Randall, Deja, the girls.

I love the bumpers.

A 250? On accident?

Maybe. There were some... When a child's involved? Like, it just feels like... I guess there was, like, there was... It was definitely couched in sensitivity. And that's what I mean is, like, it was handled very well. Sure. But I just remember it being, like... It wasn't just like a scene that you're willy-nilly shouting these things out.

It's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable for everybody involved. And so we wanted to find the most respectful path forward where nobody felt out of place. But yes, we can jump right into it.

We can touch on this, on her obsessive exercise journey that she's on. She's trying to, as she says, fit into a particular dress for this bar mitzvah that she's performing at. But you can tell it goes a little deeper.

Correct, and Toby clocks that and tries to bring it up multiple times to her. We come back from like, you know, Toby and Kate pick up Kevin from his knee surgery, which we can get into. And she immediately is like, okay, he's here. I'm going to yoga. And it's like, wait, what? Hold your horses.

Well, you are, you continue to be awesome, but to tell her like, you look great, you're doing all of the work, like you don't have to like, your entire life doesn't have to revolve around the food, the exercise, it was just the obsessive nature.

Yeah, in the past, there is a snowstorm that is brewing in Pittsburgh. You see the family at the video store, which I remember. Oh, man. I think I have some good pictures I can put up on social from this time. Do you really? Yeah, but it's just like, this was...

Someone gets on a train. That's all I know.

And then Kevin, last but not least.

I mean, if that doesn't just cut to the core.

you know when you're shooting a show like this you're on location some of the time you're on stages the the um randall's house randall and beth's house um jack and rebecca's house with like the young people well with every iteration they just would sort of change it for whatever um timeline we were we were in those were like permanent sets on stages right

And gave it to another character.

Because they want to let him recover. He has to have this knee surgery and he's like, I'll be back on set in like a week, 10 days or something. So they're rejiggering the schedule for him and Kevin.

We do. There's a really incredible montage with Madman Across the Water by Elton John. Right. It was a favorite song. It just, you see Jack and Kevin shoveling snow. You see flashes of Kevin watching old football videos. Yes.

jack saying like that's my boy like videos that clearly they were they sent to scouts and and kevin tells toby like essentially he explains the significance of like why i can't let this this knee sideline me before right like i wasn't just good at football yeah i was incredible i was being scout like as a sophomore i was on the you know varsity team yeah and and

you know, I got hurt and it sidelined me and it changed the course of my life and I became an actor and it's like, I'm gonna be damned if I let this.

this knee, sideline me again and ruin like everything that I've been working towards. And you feel, you understand, you understand why it means so much to him. And it's not just like, you know, him, I don't know, trying to be as professional as possible or something. It's like, there's so much more at stake for him. And I think that juxtaposed with watching these old,

home videos of Milo popping on, talking about how proud he is of his boy.

To what information.

But he's getting a mixed message there. And his takeaway is, to honor my dad, I have to be tough. I have to tough this out. And you see him at the end of the episode Swallow a pill, shows up on set, walks out of his little sports car into his trailer, says hello to everybody. Like I'm back at work, like nothing's happened. And Brian Grazer's like, you're a man of your word. Good job, buddy.

Like you did it.

And that's sort of where we leave them.

And then you'd have these swing sets, as they call them, where it might be a vehicle that's on a green screen and you're doing a scene in a car or whatnot. And in this particular case, they built this faux blockbuster, this faux video store that doesn't exist anymore. That is such a relic, I think, of all of our childhoods.

I have decided for the holidays the perfect gift for my husband who is constantly losing track of his keys, of his wallet, of his phone, is Life 360's Tile Trackers. It seems like the perfect stocking stuffer.

Family proof your family with Life 360's Tile trackers. Visit Tile.com today and use code TWU to get 15% off. That's Tile.com, code TWU. We had such an incredible time doing the emotional support hotline last week. We decided, why not do it again this week?

And so I just have some funny pictures of the kids like looking at what are any of these movies? Like there was so, of course, because they're nine, they had no idea any of the references of like, look who's talking and you know, so it was like really cute. They just kept asking Milo and I like, what is this?

Ew, I'm living it up today.

Just listen to your message.

It's just a nice ego boost. Nice little pick me up. But you alluded to the fact that your work takes you within the foster care system. Can you elaborate on that? And was this a line of work you were already in when the show was on and you were watching the show? Or was there some sort of potential influence there? I'm curious. Yeah.

A video cassette, like all of it. It was always fun to kind of teach them.

Wow. Well, that is an incredible commercial for the work that you do. And thank you. Thank you for your service to kids and their families. And it's just that it truly is such a specific kind of person that can carry the emotional baggage that comes along with a job like that. So there aren't enough of you in the world. Thank you, Brittany.

it's also just so heartening to hear not that it is about a television show but that you see the show reflected back to you in a realistic way because we all know the power of entertainment and the fact that it can elicit a conversation or some curiosity from folks that maybe don't know much about the system they're able to watch the show and have a little bit more

of, you know, a breadth of knowledge and understanding of, you know, Deja's story and the Pearsons and what it sort of took to kind of become a family.

Maybe even it's just cathartic to leave a message. I mean, it's lovely for us to be able to filter through and listen to all of them. We really, yes, we appreciate anyone taking the time to let us know anything about their lives, their connection to the show, etc.

To just store the information for later.

Oh, well, what were those movies?

So Jack and Rebecca are in this video store. In the video store. She's trying to sell him hard on broadcast news.

Did I? Beaches with Bette Midler. Really? Yeah, I was always, I always wanted to touch that button of like, make me cry.

Oh, I was going to say Beetlejuice too. It's coming. I know.

They're in the video store. She's telling him on broadcast news, on Roadhouse.

That was your first. My first first. Well, who is it now?

Kate gets it next. And then while they're at the doctor, he says, Randall's not exhibiting any symptoms, but I suggest that kids get it in one fell swoop because it's just easier that way.

She's not wrong. I mean, you're like, I'm perfectly healthy and now you want me to get chicken pox.

Jack's like, yeah, I'm pretty sure I had chicken pox too. Well, lo and behold.

Oh, yeah.

Exactly. We don't have to worry about it in the same way. Let me tell you something about vaccines. Okay. I was like, don't get us canceled, Sully. So they get back home, and I believe it's not the next day. They get home that day, and mom- Shows up. My mom arrives unexpectedly. You didn't say you needed any help, but she insisted on barging in and coming to help.

Well, that's her character name.

I think what's tough is like my own mom doesn't live near me. Yeah. So it's not a dynamic that I have to deal with like on the regular. Yeah. And so like there is guilt that comes in when we are together and I do find myself getting annoyed for no fault of her own. It's clearly like it's my own, the work that I have to do myself.

But I do, I remember while we were filming the show and even watching it, it's like, I see shades of myself. I see shades of her. I see, it's just, there is so much universality and the specificity of a show like this.

Who's like, I hate my mom. My mom's so annoying. Yeah. When she comes to visit, I roll my eyes like, ugh.

I feel like seasons two, three, and four are gonna have the most, like, obviously, because they were so long ago, they're gonna have, like, the most revealing information for us as viewers re-watching it. I think you're right. Because one is ingrained in, like, just the deep recesses of my brain, and obviously the later seasons, because they're just so much closer.

And she says something like, well, everyone should be good at something.

Yeah.

There's a jet flying over?

Oh, I love that. Or what about a wellness trip? Yes. Picture this, you're staying at an Airbnb near a spa retreat, morning yoga on a private deck.

A fresh smoothie situation in the kitchen, total relaxation. Or maybe you're the type that would rather be in a cozy cabin like Chris. Like me. Yeah, sitting by a fire with your family, just soaking everything in.

Get a little snow action.

I love that. That feels like a great little family tradition to start.

You call the shots. You decide when to host, how to set up your space, who stays. Airbnb makes it super simple. So while you're off enjoying your trip, your place is working for you. So what's the perfect getaway?

It wasn't frustrating because I just hearken back to my own childhood and I was like, this was the roles that my parents assumed. It was like, you know, dad would have handled the car negotiation and mom would have like wrangled the kids. So I think it only takes, again, being a parent myself now to look back through a different lens and go like, oh, that's interesting.

But I also feel like in 1989, 1990, 92, whenever this was, that's how things traditionally unfolded, I would say, in a lot of households. Most families, a lot of families. So it's only now that we look back, I think, and go like, oh, this is, why does Jack have to go in there with him?

Not at all. We were a van family and we had a Ford Aerostar that I learned to drive on. Really? Yeah. The seats would come in and out.

My mom and dad, we had another car as well. But it was like a sort of cherry red Ford Aerostar, sort of glittery. Yeah, that was a car that we had for like too long, probably.

Wow. That's cool. Chris?

Because this is actually very grounding for me. And can I say on our break, I have listened to episodes of this pod and it's like been a balm for me to hear your voices, to think about the show, how much I love you guys. I was like, wow, this is a, listening to like the Isaac and Elizabeth episode, I was like, this is good. Yeah. I'm interested.

Of them, yes, buying the car and then they jump into the kids going to their first concert, which introduces the concept of Rebecca not loving bridges.

I just thought of Aladdin. I was like, Jafarophobia, Jafarophobia. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet Randall. Sweet Randall.

Oh, yes. I remember that.

Yes, we did.

Can I just like the Milo and the kids singing la la la la la lasagna was hilarious. I totally forgot about that until...

I was like, man, Weird Al and the lyrics. He really nails it.

Yeah, they did.

Yeah, let's walk.

And what do they do?

okay and they will come and help you i'm not making fun of it no no no no no oh no no i didn't think you were no no no but hot take stop making fun of people hot take my apologies i wasn't making fun but i i it was hard for me to reconcile but that's what i'm saying those kinds of bridges more understandable this was like if it's like indiana jones type sure like this is like

Well, we can finish doing, I guess, all the other timelines that are juxtaposed in there, right? So we saw them buying the Wagoneer. We saw them going to the concert.

Then after that is what we mentioned earlier with the tree when Rebecca's awaiting results from an MRI because she's been having headaches and dizzy and Jack sort of lovingly takes her from the doctor to wait to get like a phone call from the doctor to this park at night and it's snowing and, you know, he just... gives one of his like Jack soliloquies that like makes everything all better.

A Jack-a-quee? A Jack-a-quee? Yeah, I like that.

We're okay. Yeah. You're okay. I'm like, I'm not going to get emotional at this point. We're okay. Yes, we're okay. We're happy. We're healthy. We're safe. We're together. Yes. And it's, yeah, we're putting one foot in front of the other. I have, my in-laws are living with us, which sounds like it could be a tricky situation, but we have... I've loved having like that energy there.

Yeah.

whoa, dad never talks about this.

Yes.

No, no, it's classic.

It is, don't get me wrong. Yes.

My father-in-law is unfortunately not in good health. So it's been lovely to have that time with him and for him to be around the kids and they lost their home. And so it's like to be able to heal together has been really special. And so, yeah, so we're all in like a cool little rental and it's an adventure and my boys are in a new school cause their school is gone.

No, no, no, no. There was too much animosity and weirdness about music and competitive.

It was interesting watching this episode now, you know, years later thinking, I wonder if Jack felt... maybe not burdened is the right word, but like for him to have these conversations, granted they were at very different times, but like so often to be like, I'm not going to be here forever. Like get your together, essentially. Like that's what he was saying to everybody in the family.

Like you and your brother and sister need to figure this out. Kate, like you got to do this for you. Yeah. I'm not going to be the cheerleader here for you forever. And it just made me wonder. I was like, gosh, I wonder if Jack felt like this obligation, this responsibility. I mean, it obviously came so natural for him.

But like to have that awareness of like making sure those that he loved recognized I'm – This isn't forever. Never know what life is going to bring. To have that sort of foresight was interesting, but I was like, wow, I wonder if he felt that.

Yeah, he does. It's the same one, right? Yes, yes, yes.

Yes, that's with the tree outside while she's waiting for the news from the MRI.

Yeah. Even though granted there was, you know, this was well, obviously, well, well, well. Sure. I feel like a year or two or something before that, but yeah.

But it was just interesting.

I even say that to our guys. Do you? A four-year-old and a two-year-old. When Gus just pushes Ozzy over, I was like, first of all, Gus, Ozzy's going to be bigger than you soon, and he's going to beat the crap out of you. But I say that often. I'm like, you guys, that's your little brother. He loves you. He wants to be just like you. You guys are going to be best friends one day.

Like it's been a lot of change, but we're okay. We're okay.

You're not even two years apart. Right.

I think that's the key has been about like providing that safety and that structure. So what they come away from this experience with is resilience. It's like, wow, maybe my four-year-old will maybe remember this time, but hopefully it's just punctuated with like, oh, that time that we lived in a new house for a while with Papa and Gaga. But we came out of it stronger and we were together.

We'll go to the day of the funeral, of Jack's funeral. You mentioned that the show opens with Rebecca waiting in the car for the kids. She already is sort of like, she's by herself. And you can tell that she's a little impatient, like we're running late. The kids wander out and she...

you know, they, they basically allude to the fact that like, they're, they're like, mom, that does a service doesn't start for like an hour or two or something. She's like, I want to get there early.

And so you're sort of left wondering, like, what is the deal? Like, what is there to get there early for?

And my little guy is two and then Lou is... five, five months old. So she, yeah. But, but they're like, they're leaning into this sense of like adventure. And it's been hard, I think way harder for us, especially like in the beginning to like have these very hard adult conversations in front of little ears.

She makes the correlation. If he didn't go for the dog, I don't want this dog now. This dog just represents the reason my dad passed away.

Yeah, it's tough. And to sort of go back to what you were saying about Kevin and Randall, it's just interesting because it just escalates again all of these things that have gone unsaid thus far when Kevin's like, I wouldn't have let him go back. And Randall's like, you weren't there. You weren't there, big dog. You're never there.

Yeah, exactly. I know. I was like, these guys really know how to cut right to the quick.

Or five. Was it five? I feel like it was COVID. Was it five? On the lawn. Yeah. I think that was five with you and Justin, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hot take, hot take. Kate, actually it was Louie's fault, right? Louie the dog?

Jack's affection for the dog.

It's funny, Taylor said the same thing when we were watching the episode the other day. He's like, it's just like every time you see him, you're like, oh, thank God.

Yeah, he'll solve it. He'll know what to do.

And he really, you know, meets Rebecca. In a place that, like, it's so necessary, right? Like, we've not seen Rebecca, I mean, we've seen, like, hints of her breaking and stuff, but she recognizes she obviously has to be.

I mean, the night, the previous episode when she goes to tell the kids what happened and Mikkel greets her outside, he's like, no, no, no, no, no, you can't break apart because if you break apart, I'm going to break apart. So I feel like that ethos is what she's been carrying with her for the last... 10 days, however long it's been since he passed away.

And seeing Dr. K, I think, and he was so unexpected that he would be there, that he would show up with his wife to pay his respects, that it's almost just like an invitation for her to... like take a deep breath and a relief to sort of confide in somebody like he was the good part of this equation I'm weak I don't know how to do what he did I don't know how to show up in the way that he did

But it was just like the insurance adjuster and the thing and the, these people are here and that, you know, like that, those conversations, it was hard to kind of like temper that with them. But, but now that that's sort of like less, present, I think it's been a little easier. Okay.

I don't know how to get forward. Like I'm not going to be able to. And for someone, yeah, that can see in you what you don't see in yourself is such a gift. And it's exactly what Rebecca needed. It's exactly like he serves this function for this family. At every major sort of turn that they find themselves at, right? In the hospital with the babies. This is what he said to Jack.

Now that Jack has passed away. Like, I feel like it's, you're right. He is the Greek horse. He's a witness. He's a witness. Yes.

And she mentions, like, I have been following him around all day because I wasn't there when he died. And you're like, oh, that makes sense. Because it's like, she wants to be there before the urn gets there. She wants to carry the urn with her. She feels this... debt of responsibility. She owes Jack something she didn't give him in the end. And I can't, I was like, oh, Rebecca.

It's like, when you make that realization, it's like, I just, you want to hug her and be like, what are you talking? Like, I understand and I want to have compassion for that, but no, no. Like, this is what happens in life sometimes. This is how things unfold. It's so unfortunate. It's so devastating. But like, you can't carry that around with you.

You can't feel like you failed him because of that. And Dr. K says as much and also tells her like, I see the strength in you that you don't see in yourself. And also just to let you know, your husband had fear too. He used to come and visit me when your kids were babies.

Yes. And he's like, no. He would, like, he just would show up unannounced in my office. All the time. All the time.

Of so much. And I, again, I think that was a revelation for Rebecca too. Like, oh, he did? Like, he seemed to know everything. And it was so seamless for him. Effortless. Yeah.

I got you. So we're good, thank you.

That's not the moment and understanding that.

Yeah. And the quiet and the stillness of the, you know, what she sort of left in the reception with kids and family and like the reality of what her life is right now.

So important, I think, for her to have that moment.

And she brings him to the tree and basically explains the significance of this tree and that this is the, gosh, this is the turning point, right? Of like the time before dad and after dad and like they're in this together and she doesn't need them to be, neither of them need to figure out who to be the man of the house. Like they just need their kids.

Yeah.

Just be that.

And it wasn't your fault, Kate. She basically puts all of that to bed and finds this air of strength in that moment to say, and you know what? Dad got us tickets. And I think we should go. And this is us. We're this unit now. And we're going to do this together. Come hell or high water, we're going to get through this. And yeah, I mean, I feel like that sort of sets this family off.

What do you mean?

which feels so bizarre.

I need them to be okay. Yeah, I know. It gets me too. It's like, wow, because that's like...

it doesn't feel like a tall order you know you're like oh that seems doable and i think that's like the advice that rebecca is heating in that moment like we are going to be okay that's right i'm going to make sure of it we are going to make sure of it as a cohesive unit together yeah and they are right we know that

And the fact that it's not, like that's not available is so jarring and isolating too. Like, whoa, I would drive like half a mile away from my house and the part of Altadena that burned, or all of it did. And I'd be a half a mile down the road and it was like, people were walking to CVS and like going about their lives. And I'm like, this is so disorienting.

I think we have Isaac and Elizabeth with us to sort of chat through this episode that they wrote.

I loved... Anytime I saw their names on an episode, I was always like, oh, here we go. I mean, it's like, you know, along with Kay, along with KJ, there were some OGs of the show. And obviously... Isaac and Elizabeth became our showrunners very early on in the first season. But it was like they knew the DNA of the show so thoroughly. They were our leaders.

So anytime I saw that it was their episode, I was like, oh, this is going to be a good one.

Let's chat with them.

We're back.

Like, do they know what's happened just up the street? But that's what life is, you know? And yeah, it's strange. Strange times. Strange times. I texted Dan, I was like, me and Milo? Like both? It's just the most bizarre thing in the world. I was like, are you a... Do you have some weird- And we'll talk about 214 and we'll talk about how- For sure. Nuts is that? Yeah, I know.

Yeah, there's a nostalgia quotient.

Anyway, 215.

It's good. You guys are a sight for sore eyes, as they say.

No, I absolutely disagree.

Okay, all right. It is time for one of our favorite parts of the show, hearing from you.

Hey guys, I love this show and I love that you're doing this podcast. Come on now. Thank you. Thanks, ma'am. I know I'm jumping ahead of you here, but I just have to say that this episode has my favorite scene in the entire show. The scene at the end where Rebecca drives across the bridge makes me cry every single time.

The look of determination and strength on Rebecca's face with the outstanding score playing is everything. Comparing this moment to the scene earlier in the episode where Rebecca is fearful of driving across the bridge and needs Jack to help her get through it, the message of how much Rebecca's life has changed is so beautifully communicated.

Now, I struggle with many worries and anxiety in this life, but my worst fear is losing my rock, my husband. All my other fears seem tiny when put up against that. And I think that is exactly what changes for Rebecca as she crosses this bridge. She is living her worst fear.

What?

She realizes that the worst thing that could ever happen to her is not something going wrong with the bridge, but losing Jack. The look in Rebecca's eyes says, if I can survive this, I can survive anything. So beautifully written and so beautifully played by who other than Mandy Moore. Thank you.

Well, I mean, you said as much when we first started recapping this episode. It's just like, this is the turning point for this character and for this family.

Mandy Moore. That is, that's too much. This is your. No, no. Sterling, first. I absolutely disagree with that comment towards you. You are a natural leader. You help drive the conversation.

I kind of felt like it wasn't enough. So maybe we can change that for the next episode, okay?

Exactly.

Yeah, please don't. What if we stop talking? What do we do?

Sure.

That's the key, because I feel like those, fear in general, like, that's never going to go away, right? Right, right, right. Like, it is a healthy thing to a certain extent.

But when it's debilitating, when it prevents you from living life, from being present, like, that's when it's, you know...

We don't know what to do. Anyway.

Was a time.

Can't go above it. Can't go below it. You gotta go through it. Gotta go through it.

Yeah.

Do you remember that?

I absolutely disagree.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I mean, I love... the idea of telling the story of this family and and as it relates to this car that almost kind of is given like personification like it it is part of the family it is such a unmistakable part of the story of the pearsons and so to kind of like you know go go back and forth and like show them first acquiring the car and how the car is being used now and like

I loved those sort of vignettes. I will say, personally speaking, I remember shooting this episode because there was so much lead up to the Super Bowl episode. There was so much lead up, I think for all of us, of holding onto this secret of how Jack passes away. That just the level of relief of that being done was something I remember feeling watching it. But also...

There was a huge piece of like, because I knew this was a turning point for the character and like the completion of like seeing the funeral through and kind of like helping her position herself correctly to take this family. Yeah. into this next chapter of their lives. Like I felt like this episode oddly had a lot of pressure as well. So it's not like I could fully exhale.

And just a little behind the scenes thing. So they, you know, they location scout, as we've known as directors and you know as an actor and stuff, when a director and the powers that be, producers and writers and stuff like that, as they're writing these episodes and planning these episodes and looking towards shooting them, they go and scout different locations.

Why on God's green earth would they choose a location for this very special tree that like is Jack's tree, right? That Justin goes and speaks to in the previous episode. I went to the tree.

You go to the tree. Milo takes me to this tree in this episode as Rebecca is, has like, she's having headaches and she goes and get an MRI and she's waiting for the results of this MRI. And he sort of like just haphazardly like pulls off the freeway to this like tree that he says he loves, which turns out that was just a bogus story. It was close to a payphone.

November. Is that true? It was November?

And anyway, so this, the actual location for this tree is, was in like Balboa Park or Lake Balboa here in Los Angeles in the valley, right over the flight path for Van Nuys Airport.

So about every two and a half minutes, there's like a jet landing at this airport, which means... For those who don't know that are listening, you have to stop for sound because they don't want you speaking with the jet in the background.

So I'm trying to get through this incredibly emotional scene with my children and I'm telling them the story of what this tree means to us and that you can't blame yourself for the death of your father and you don't have to be the man of the house. All of this as it's like... Like a jet is landing every couple minutes.

Holy cow. And this is March.

Jiminy Christmas.

At night, which already is like, I'm a like 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. sort of girl. Those are my best hours. So when the sun goes down, it's already hard for me.

So it's like night shoots are a little bit more of a challenge for me. We're shooting with all the kids. It's a little chilly. You know, it's like all the things. And then this jet, and Ken Olin is directing. We're already exhausted. And it takes a lot for me to lose my cool. But I remember I was like, this is not okay. I wasn't mad at anyone in particular.

I was mad at the situation of like, you guys, we've gone, you know, 18 episodes in the first season. This is 15 episodes into this, you know, second season. It mattered so much to me. That's why I was like frustrated that like, who chose this? Yeah. location. It's a good looking tree, girl. I was like, is the tree that special?

It was.

Was your tree in Memphis?

Yeah, correct. So they had to find a tree back in LA that sort of looked like the one you went to in Memphis.

But anyway, all of that to say, there was parts of it that had to be reshot because the sound. The sound was so bad. And re-watching it, I heard some of the planes, the jet anyway. Oh, you did? Oh, I did. I did. Because I think they wanted to keep the wide shots.

And it was some of the stuff like that was a little closer in that they were that they reshot and were able to use. I, of course, still was like, sure. I noticed it immediately. I hear you.

But it was. Yeah, it was just frustrating because I'm like, you guys, we've built up to this. And I want to honor what the character is going through, because I think it's that first glimmer of Rebecca being. Heeding what Dr. K said, which again, we will get to, and kind of like owning the fact that like Jack was a superhero.

She's never going to be Jack, but she has to find that strength within herself to like show up, be there, be present for her family, to help them move forward. And it's not going to be easy, but like letting her kids know, like, you don't have to be this. You don't have to be that. Like, I'm the mom. I'm here to take care of you. You have to trust me. And I just, I wanted to feel like...

I wanted to be... So I'm sure you guys can speak to this as well. Like as actors, I go in sometimes like not so locked into like how I imagine things are going to be and if they don't go 100% that way. Like unfold the way that I've sort of imagined it in my brain. Like I get all like tangled up in that. But I did have...

some idea of like okay this is how I would love for it to go in a perfect world and it once it veered so off path from that that it was like it was just hard for me to like feel like I was able to get it back and be present in the way that like I I wanted for Rebecca I hear you yeah

I'm on the call.

Freakshow. Freakshow.

We talked about it in that episode. What is the, there is a house.

And that's the only vocal track.

We see that it shorts out. He turns it off, but it's like, the light still stays on.

On today's episode of That Was Us, we will be discussing Season 2, Episode 14, Super Bowl Sunday. On the 20th anniversary of Jack's death, Randall hosts a Super Bowl party. Kevin, Kate, and Rebecca share their memories of this day and how they've been coping since.

I mean, my gut says yes. My gut says yes.

Yeah.

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Can we give some BTS here? So remember how we were trying to hold on to so many secrets and occasionally because we shot practically like around Los Angeles, there might be some like weird photographer, paparazzi or whatever that would like... And most of the time it's not a big deal because you're like...

we're shooting in the location, like, you know, or we're outside, like, with the kids, like... Not exposing any big pot points.

There's nothing that, like, they would get a picture of that would reveal anything. But on this particular moment, because there was so much sensitivity around protecting the secret of Jack's passing, they had a stunt actor Come, do you remember this?

Yes, there was like a photo double, but not a real photo double, but someone dressed up to sort of throw off in case there was anybody around.

So when I was doing that scene in the ambulance, if anybody got any footage, we shot with Milo obviously, but then I'm trying to remember the logistics.

Yes. So there was somebody there for certain shots. I don't remember what the logistics were exactly, but I do remember sitting with this man in the ambulance, like doing a scene with him that wasn't Milo. Yeah. in case somebody, when they move the camera or something, in case somebody was able to get a shot of that. Because we couldn't completely lock down the street.

And they're like peeking the windows, like encouraging people to go like peer in the writer's room.

Yes, yes, yes. I think you're right. So anything that like someone could potentially like peer in and see Milo sitting there was this other stranger sitting with me.

You're like, what happened? I just, I remembered that little detail. And I was like, gosh, that was so strange. Because it wasn't often that we had to employ those kind of tactics.

Like Lancaster, right?

Yeah, one that didn't have a balcony.

Wait, can I tell you my favorite part of this whole episode? Because it had been so much pent up emotion, so much buildup. And I remember the scene of going to Miguel's house and telling him that Jack had died. And the kid, you know, having to go and, like, tell the kids and stuff. And, you know, Dan, you would come occasionally.

Obviously, for this episode, I feel like you were around a lot because it was just so important. But I remember you coming up to me afterwards because you were like, we should do something for Mandy. You were telling Jake, your assistant, like, we should do something for Mandy. Like, this has been a lot. Like, this has been really trying. And his suggestion was to get me a clown.

I'm on the phone with Miguel. And then I'm on the phone with a hotel, I believe, trying to remember.

Yeah.

It's just regulating.

Well, yeah, I just remember thinking, like, this is so awful. Like, you're talking to the wrong person. Like, you don't remember who I am. We were just having a conversation. Like, this is so wrong that you're doing this. We were just here for a burn, and you're giving the wrong person this news. And, like, I just remember cycling through, like, This is inappropriate. This is unprofessional.

And just off, you know what I mean? There's just so much swirling around, coming down from the adrenaline of what we just lived through that it felt so impossible that this man would be delivering this news to someone in that fashion so casually.

Guys, you're too kind, too kind.

Thank you. That's the last time we're going to mention it.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's like before and after. Is that just like indelible moment experience?

Yes. Well, besides the clown story, now I can't. No, it's just like there was so much pressure for this whole episode because it's like there's just so much to carry and so much to carry. And I wasn't a mom yet, so I didn't know what that meant, but I could imagine. And telling his best friend. And it's just all so unthinkable.

But she has to rise to the occasion in that moment and try to keep her wits about her and recognize that she has to be strong for them. And I love that she goes to tell Miguel and he starts to break down and she's like, no, no, no, no, no. You cannot do that. We both can't do that right now because I have to go and ruin my children's life right now.

And I don't need to be taking care of you on top of it. Yeah.

Yeah.

It was shown during 201. Oh, that's right. You sort of saw the flash at the end. You're like, wait, what?

Exactly. Marrying that all together. Yeah.

Just like a zombie. It was a lot, man.

Oh, yeah. My favorite thing was we were shooting all night at the, God, just revealing all this like BTS stuff. But I guess that's what people want to hear about, right? Come on. We were shooting all night doing all the fire stuff. And so you'd get home at 5, 6 a.m. or whatever. We were living in a rental house at that point. And I came home.

And I like took a shower, I was getting ready to go to bed and there was a party still happening next door. And I was so, I think just completely like, just over emotional about everything. Like I was such a raw little vulnerable exposed nerve. that I woke my husband up and I was like, there's a party going on next door. I was like, oh, no fucking way. And he was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

And like, when I get there, I get there. I'm in my glasses, my pajamas, and I go over and I like pound on the door and I'm just like vibrating with anger at this. It's like the sun hasn't come up, but it's about to come up. And I'm like, what the fuck is somebody doing? Like still playing like crazy house music. And this, like, scared, looks like young 20s guy, like, opens the door.

And I was like, do you know what fucking time it is? Like, I just laid into this kid. And he was, like, shaking, looking at me. And I was like, some people have to work. Some people are going to sleep. Like, this is inappropriate. Like, I'm calling the police next time.

But that just spoke to, I feel like, what I was living in at that moment of filming this episode. I was just so overextended.

Yeah.

And so we had to digest that. And I remember looking at Taylor and echoing that same sentiment. I'm like, it's just a house. It's just stuff. It's okay. We're safe. Like our family's here. Our pets are here. Like we're okay. And I truly felt that way. And I still feel that way. Even though the structure of our house is intact, Everything inside of it is a total loss, which again, I feel that way.

I'm like, okay, it is just stuff. And I feel selfish saying that because it still exists in a weird way. And I have passed no judgment on people that obviously I don't feel that same attachment to things that I know people do to their stuff. I'm like, we just moved in a year ago. It's just a couch.

But I totally understand that everybody has different attachments to their own personal things. But it was strange thinking back now that that is totally how I felt in the moment.

I digress.

Not enough room. Don't stop. I love knowing that I'm going to have a place that actually feels like home, especially if I need to pack specific things for my little ones. Not to get too heavy, but we were displaced from the fires and we...

relied on airbnb we moved from airbnb to airbnb all over this city of los angeles over the last couple of weeks and i'm so grateful because you can get specific you can get granular about exactly what you need like with little ones if they have a crib or a pack and play or toys making sure there's not a staircase i love airbnb it makes you feel like you're staying at home you have the creature comforts at home that you just you can't get when you're staying in a hotel

Yeah, there was like relief. Like we were just holding onto this secret. And I think as an actor too, like getting through 214 and 215, like the aftermath of like the funeral and everything, it was like, And now this woman can just like put the pieces of her life back together and start putting one foot in front of the other and moving on. There was like so much anxiety of like, how do we do this?

I think it's montage.

Miguel normally just gives her... Get out of the house.

How do we do this? Well, like there's so much anticipation. I felt like there were so many eyeballs on like, how is this going to go? That like once that was out of the picture, it was such a relief.

Too much talking. Wait, and then Randall, can we get to Randall with his hot dad apron?

Well, he tells me that, like, that I was really strong for all of them, basically just, like, giving me props, I guess. And I say that I had to wrap myself around you guys to protect you. I tried, but your dad didn't have to try. I think about thinking about the candy bar and just talking about how, you know, explaining, like, I wasn't there in that moment because I was eating a stupid candy bar.

And then just allowing him, like... The fact that I think because he'd been living with Miguel and Rebecca, like this year, the sign was you. This year, like the time that we've spent, the connection that we're forging, like that's all your dad.

Yeah.

Do you want to talk about, finish with Randall and Beth's story as well?

And then we could jump to the future.

We just think it's another story.

And who are they going to see? Yes.

Yeah.

No, no, it's 214 as well.

Yeah, it is. It absolutely is. It absolutely is.

We've got to keep it up the whole time now.

Do you know if Dan had written an alternative way that the story could go on? As in Jack not dying so soon in the show. And if he did have him in the show longer, maybe he would have died from something else and not the after effects from the house fire.

When did you know that this was going to be the show that this episode was going to precede?

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Because you knew the Super Bowl was going to be on NBC that year.

Yeah.

My wife, Stacy, and Dan went to camp together back in the day at BRDC, Blue Real Day Camp.

And the carnival episode where I believe Jack and Rebecca had their first kiss were the clown garbage cans and Easter egg for the If You Know, You Know fans.

I guess we could take this last question because it is pretty funny.

John and Glenn kind of said as much too.

We did.

Did you approach this episode differently knowing that there were going to be more eyeballs on it? And perhaps eyeballs that like, they weren't like, I know the show was successful, but like, you know, you get new people tuning in that maybe have no idea who the Pearsons are. So like, does that make you sort of think differently about how to approach this?

I love it.

Instantaneous.

Baby, baby, sorry. Baby.

Sure.

Yeah.

Chris is great!

It is.

Hello! Hi!

Really?

I do.

Yeah.

Sure.

Yes, it's true.

It's all good.

But what does perfect mean?

And aggregated.

Oh, wow.

Well. Doing good. How are you?

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Came up with that on his own, improvised that.

You want to know how mine goes? Tell me. I am sitting in a theater with a crowd of people watching a show that's about to start and the show starts and they're waiting for an actor to come on and I realize it's supposed to be me. Okay. Oh, shoot. Do you wake up in a cold sweat? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

You've been thrown like this? Yeah.

Do tell.

A lot of these stories that you hear about actors and people, they get taken out of context and it makes actors look crazy. It makes actors look...

you know we've we've all seen heard audio of actors flipping out on set losing their minds but but what what you're not seeing is like someone is trying to cry over the dead body of their wife and yeah somebody is eating potato chips yeah like or like whatever the thing is obviously there's no excuse to mistreat people but in context there there are these things that certain actors do

that they do to protect themselves when they're trying to get to a place. And I know there's a very famous Broadway, I won't say who, very famous Broadway dame who has a taped out square on the floor in the wings that if she is standing in it, you do not speak to her. Because if you're not, there's costumes is fixing things, makeup is fixing things. But if I'm standing in this square.

I love that. That's brilliant. Just know that this is it. I'm getting ready to do something. Yes. And I need a minute.

That's very polite. But if you take it out of context, people look at it as some ego. That's so difficult. Right, right, right, right. It's like, no, no, no, this is my spot. And it's just clear communication and a literal boundary.

Yeah, yeah. It might seem eccentric, but those actors who stay in character the entirety of a shoot, it's just for emotional preservation. Sure. Because it would take so much energy to bounce in and out of this character. I'm just going to stay here. This is so much easier. Totally.

And so Kevin, of course, after being thrown by all of this talk, finds out that Kate has told Sylvester Stallone about their dad and they go back to his trailer.

Should he do that right before? And kind of lays into her.

Do me a favor, just because I'm curious. Go home and see if you can get an operator. Call home if I get an operator? Yeah, go home and get on your landline. Can you still get... Hello, operator? Can you tap zero? Can you? I don't know. Are there operators? I think so. All right. I haven't tried it. We're going to need to know. That's a good question. You're the only one who can tell us.

It's the first time we've ever seen that, which we'll come back later.

Mickey Feekers, I like that. Mickey Fickies is what I was trying to say.

Kevin injures himself. The windup of the storyline in this episode is we not only see them fight, we not only see them say extremely injurious things, injurious things. Yeah. But the makeup between the two of them we see as well, right? The makeup phone call, or is that in the next episode?

It may be. No, no, Kev calls Kate and apologizes. And all he says is, twin fight. And she says, yeah. He says, twin makeup? Something like that, yeah. And she says, okay. And they move on. It's just a little glimpse into their relationship.

And that different time can also be today. It's a different... When you show vulnerability, if you come from a certain place or you live in a certain environment, will get you killed.

Yeah.

Absolutely. It will get you beaten. It will get you ostracized. Preached. Whatever the thing is. Yes, sir. You're right. You're right.

But no, you're right. It's like the time when... That was the way it was for all men. Correct.

Your peers will ostracize you. Your father will abuse you. Disown you, yeah. If you're in a foreign war, if you take a second to stop and feel, you're dead. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And in the same way that we talk about our therapeutic processes, right, whether it's therapy or whatever the thing is, I think it's talk space, the idea that things that have gone unaddressed you don't just start addressing them, that there are like tools and there's a process and there are steps available and there's things that you can do to structure the processing of those things because

it's a difficult thing to do. And if you've been stuffing it for so long, you have no idea where to start.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It would work for any man other than Jack Pearson.

And there's a neurochemical connection that happens that bonds people together and helps wash the brain of, negativity, of resentment, of, you know, it's literally getting high, man. Tell him Toby Llama.

Yes.

Let me tell you that.

When Taylor's just not into it, how does that feel?

Genuine connection.

Yeah, we're both going through. Going through something that is harder than they thought.

The next episode. Is the next episode? Or no.

Just how scary and impossible something like that must have been in the pre-internet days. You know what I mean? Like now it might be a little easier, it's still obviously a daunting task and a vulnerable thing to do. But like, that's like the wild west, man.

Let's do that.

Let's talk to Lyric. We'll be back right after these words from our sponsors.

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Yeah, we could say that right here on the podcast right now.

No pressure. Geez. The whole family.

Sterling has still never looked at me like that.

No.

At least he was sober. Let me ask you this, Lyric. What was going on in Chicago? Because I'm not from Chicago, but essentially, I kicked my career off in Chicago. Were you acting a lot there, theater, film and television, commercials, anything like that?

to see how you came. And are you in Chicago now or are you still in LA?

Hey, hey, hey, why would you want to do that?

I thought that was an insert. I didn't realize that was real. Was that? Yeah, that was her. Oh, man.

Yeah.

You can see that on your face the first time you appear on this show. Like you, your character drops with so much gravitas before you even open your mouth. Yeah.

That's right. You demanded it.

Well, thank you for joining us. Obviously, we're going to have a lot more episodes of your story to watch, and hopefully you'll come back and talk to us some more.

In person, come through. Can you tell our listeners where they can find you online, follow you, keep up to date with what's going on?

Listen, when stuff comes up, I'm sure you'll post and people can, you know.

I don't know if anybody gets called. I used to do it all the time in my head.

Okay.

Post about it when you know. Yeah. So we know. We love you. We love you, Lyric.

More That Was Us after these words from our sponsors.

People be traveling at the holidays.

I'm excited. Yeah, I've been traveling a lot, actually, back and forth to Toronto for this new gig. And I'm checking out the entire city with Airbnb. I get a different apartment every time I go in a different part of the city.

But never voiced it.

Mandy, nobody knows Toronto better than I do.

i have been using airbnb for years and it's become my go-to for finding places that feel like home no matter where i am in the world it's also a wonderful way to share my own space with travelers offering them the comfort of a home away from home we've done so many renovations on our house i've been thinking these renovations are too good i have to share them with the world hosting just makes sense come on and it might be for you as well yes

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. And we are back with another installment of the Emotional Support Hotline.

Yeah. We're going to listen to the voicemail first, Mandy. Don't jump the gun. Don't jump the gun. I don't know who we're calling. Because the script tells you to jump the gun.

It is from someone who was so nervous when she called that she forgot to leave her name and number. And luckily, our producer, Sarah, was able to find her so we could call her back. Her name is Jennifer, and here is her message.

Oh, what a lovely message.

Jennifer, get ready.

To be called. To be. Never mind.

Hey, Jennifer. I was wondering if you've been thinking about re-upping your, no, Jennifer, it's Chris Sullivan.

Like later on, she asked like- To be clear, they didn't not beat you because they were white.

You said that today's been a day. Do you want to talk about it with three of your closest friends? Yeah. We're here. We're here. We're anonymous. This is an emotional support hotline. Nobody's listening.

What's going on?

So he just had to go get a back surgery just to get you back?

You just keep doing it, Jennifer.

Have a good rest of your day. Exactly.

Baby, cancer, baby.

Yeah, yeah. Stepchild. Yeah.

Thank you for asking. Glad to hear it. We got a new character. We're introducing a new character into the This Is Us world.

We want to talk to you. So please, if you want to write us an email at thatwasuspod at gmail.com. You can send us a letter. Let us know how you relate to the show. Or you can call us.

Bye. Welcome back to another installment of The Retread brought to you by Peloton. Find your push. Find your power with Peloton. Today we spoke to Lyric Ross and were reminded of what an incredible person Peloton is. And what an incredible actor she is playing the role of Deja. We also gushed over Faith Herman, our little itty-bitty on the show, in her incredible scene with Ron Cephas Jones.

We were reminded that it is okay to not be okay by connecting with some fans in the emotional support hotline. And we reminded ourselves and our listeners of the power of good boundaries to maintain our energy on and offset. And of course, we were left with an incredible line by the one and only Sylvester Stallone. There is no such thing as a long time ago.

There are only memories that mean something and memories that don't. Thanks for tuning in. This has been The Retread, brought to you by Peloton.

With a child who is trying to grasp at whatever little control she has in this world, which at this point is a plastic bag a plastic shopping bag of what appears to be all the belongings she has.

And then- We cut to one of the best scenes I forgot about in this show.

Yeah.

Like, it was just, it was so silly.

That's a big swing for the writers to hand a scene like that to an eight-year-old.

Yes. Oh, yeah. Another new character in the This Is Us world.

Sylvester Stallone. Oh, you know him.

Sly Stallone as himself. He was solid. I thought he was good.

he might have a career ahead of him we come to find out that that kevin this this ron howard movie that he is doing is he is starring alongside sylvester stallone in in some kind of war hill 400. right and but behind the scenes we called it war llama yes remember that yeah where'd that come from it was it was some joke about like we did yeah there were t-shirts made that said war llama yes

It was a joke. But yeah, Hill 400 was the name of the movie. Yeah. And we come to find out that Kevin is shooting this movie with Sly and Ron Howard and that Sylvester Stallone was Jack's favorite actor. Yeah.

And Sylvester Stallone is obviously a legend. Yeah. But he is also incredibly... As I think we hear with most... not actors, not famous people, but movie stars, they know how to move through the world and make people comfortable. The good ones. The good ones. And because they know people are taken with them. Because we have so much history invested in their stories.

And I remember being in the makeup trailer with Chris, Because I came just to visit. Did you really?

Just as a fan. I was like, I got to see this. First of all, there's going to be explosions and this, that, and the other thing. And also, I want to watch Chrissy and Sly do these scenes. And I'm in the makeup trailer with Chrissy. She's getting her makeup on. And Justin's there. And we're all chatting. And he walks in. And he is the most jovial.

He knows all of our names without us having to introduce ourselves. And he goes, Chris, Taserface.

Did he really? Because he was in that movie with me. That's right! But he had never met me out of makeup. We had only ever talked when I was in that makeup.

And he knew who we were.

And showed up and put everybody in like a jovial mood. And I got to watch them work. And you can see it in the scenes with him and Chrissy. They're just like bosom buddies.

You could just see Kevin is like not in it. It's such a beautiful monologue from Sylvester Stallone.

Oh, I wrote it down.

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Get out of here. Wow. Okay, so wait. You guys started, I'm always sort of fascinated by this. Hold on, let me give a little bit of backstory. I'm talking again. A little backstory of like how I met these guys.

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of world building or whatnot you know setting the tone of how a show is going to be done like does that feel you have conversations obviously with the creator or whatnot but in terms of like our show just for folks who pay attention to that kind of thing very few dolly shots It's pretty much handheld throughout the entire thing and whatnot.

The verite was something that you guys had talked about, I'm sure, from the beginning and then ultimately decided on with Yasha. Just talk to us about decisions made in terms of establishing style.

That's what I said. I was like, that's certainly Ryan. So check this out. I'm the one who told you guys this. I was in New York City doing a play by Susan Laurie Parks. It's called Father Comes Home from the Wars 1, 2, and 3. And Tiffany, the casting director, who I came in to see these guys for a movie that they were doing with Tina Fey called Whiskey Tango, Foxtrot. Yes.

Yeah.

It's almost like halfway through the show. Like we stopped doing the practical driving.

Let me ask you guys this because I, and you guys tell me if you get the same sort of thing. I know Chris, we've talked about this a little bit. People always talk about how sad the show is and how it makes them cry or whatnot. And I think we've had this conversation. I was like, but I thought the show was a comedy. Like when I first read it, I was like, this thing is so funny.

So much levity to it. So I'm curious in terms of tone for you guys, what did you first clock when you read it? And what is it that you wanted to come across as you established the tone of the show?

So I go in. I audition for these guys. They wind up putting me in their movie. Got a small part, but a cool part. It was a lot of fun, right? Then I was doing OJ, which is 20th Century Fox, which is our studio, which is also the studio for This Is Us. And I don't know the exact, so you guys can fill in for me. And they're like, oh, this guy's playing Darden.

You know, that kind of, that kind of stuff.

That's what I wanted to know, like fire in the house in particular, when he's going to get the kids, et cetera, what's practical, what's CGI like?

Okay, okay. Because it does look like he's right in it. No, it's good. It shoots really well.

Is it more than the average set up? That was a lot of planning. I'm sure it was.

We should bring him in for This Is Us, whatever. Untitled Dan Fogelman project. His name's Sterling Brown. And the guys, it was the first time walking into a room where they're directing the pilot. And I'm like, oh, they're friendly faces. Yeah. It's nice to have like people know you. The studio is sort of like excited about you. You know what I'm saying? Like to have buzz.

So was crew masked in terms of so as to not inhale too much gas? No, it's ventilated. The smoke was created separately.

Are we lowering people down for real, for real, off the roof?

Oh, it's open up top.

Talking all, okay, I got you, I got you.

Okay, so wait, I'm just trying to chronology. You did one and two of This Is Us and four.

Then they did four.

Three and four.

And then second season too. The pool is four. What was right before the pool?

So there's, yes, because you said Afro-American. I was like, all right, Mandy Moore, I got you.

No, because at the time, like, we've been so many things. It's been like, you know. Oh, gosh. One, three, four. 16, which is Memphis.

It's 16. And then come back for 214, which we were just talking about. The Super Bowl. Is that it? That's it. I think that might be it. That's it. Then you guys got busy doing, creating, doing all kinds of stuff, right?

I don't know, Mandy Moore, you've had buzz for a long time. Come on down. You're Mandy Moore.

Well, for the Super Bowl episode, you're at the... Can we talk about, so wait, hold on, wait, wait, because we're going to talk about this in 2.14 too. You asked him the question. You asked him the question. You know what, nevermind. No, no, no, no, no. You can say it. You can say it. No, go ahead and say it. I don't understand. I know what he's going to say.

So it was a really interesting sort of experience to come into the room and have like people that you've seen before that know your work, whatever, that are excited to see you. Like, cause most of the time you're just in there singing for your supper, trying to be, hello, my baby, doing your own jazz hands type thing.

I mean, we got there, we did it. Chris and I say this all the time. It was the best acting moment in the show.

Well, because you guys tell them because she didn't know he was going to be on the bed, right?

So when you guys see Mandy Moore walks into the room, she sees Jack and we as an audience in the reflection of the door, in the glass pane of the door, see his body laying down in the bed, not moving. And that way we could just,

Let's not do that. That's a good one. I appreciate that. But so you guys also, so everybody knows, had worked with Dan previous on Crazy Stupid Love, which my wife and I watched and we were like, oh snap. Like these are the same people that directed and wrote that thing. Like this show has to be good. I was just excited to have the meeting. You guys. That's it. That's all I wanted to say.

You guys, they found the drinking fountains and they're like, look guys, there's these two drinking fountains. And it kind of has this feeling of like, you know, one was a colored drinking fountain, one was a whites only drinking fountain. I was like, let the camera roll, bro. Let's go ahead. Let's do it. And we would have,

so much fun and ron was like yeah i used to try to drink here and everything i was like well i was raised by white people let's go here i'm gonna show you i'm drinking at the tall fountain baby it's my time this is my time but like they would just find things like it felt very guerrilla yeah we were a really small crew we're driving around we did a whole

All the time. We try to keep it to a minimum, but it does happen from time to time.

It was such an amazing experience. And to have you guys really set. Directing a pilot, is it daunting? You guys have done several. You've done your own. You've done other people's or whatnot. But knowing that you are sort of establishing the track that is going to be what the show is going to be riding on, you take it seriously. But is it scary? Or you feel pretty comfortable at this point?

So you had no anticipation.

That's basically what Paley Fest is for whatever the show is.

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It's the kind of Easter surprise that turns into a nightly ritual. And those moments, that's what it's all about. Give us something that only you guys would know that he would be comfortable with you sharing about Dan. And then one thing he would be uncomfortable. Well, you know what?

I mean, because I feel like I could do some things, but the thing that I always say about Dan is that he sort of masks his tremendous heart with his incredible intelligence and wit, right? Like he always, you know he's a smart guy, you know he's incredibly funny, but it almost takes like- And good looking, and good looking. His cheeks are some of my favorite things in the world.

But like you really get a sense of his heart when you read what he writes, right? Like he doesn't lead with sentimentality. Like I think we've seen him cry once. Like when we had that moment during season six, when he brought us all out to the place and like, he sort of like let it down for a second.

For a second, for a second. So I'm curious from you guys and the collaborations over the course of now three projects, like what have you learned about the guy that you think that he wouldn't share himself, but wouldn't mind?

The thing is, he is, like what I love about him is that he has a very healthy sense of self. He does, but it's not something that's ostentatious or whatever. Like you kind of have to get close to him and be like, oh, this dude knows he's kind of that dude, but he doesn't really share that part with everybody.

You guys are both through episode two. He has this thing, and I think he puts this in Cal's voice, but it's really him, where he says like, you know, he was so excited to find out that he was better at basketball than you. And I don't think he's talking about Xavier. I think he's talking about SKB. And in my mind, because he'll talk trash. He'll be like, Sterling, I'm actually pretty good.

I'm like, bro, I'm gonna treat you like an unloved stepchild. I will beat your ass up and down the court. And he's like, we'll see. And he gets so sort of like snarky cool about it. Like, he's like, I'm better than you think I am, Sterling.

I think Dan is actually more Randall. Because Dan imagines himself as fat. I think he's more Randall, to be honest with you.

Oh, there's Randall in there, too. There's both, for sure.

Do you guys want to talk a little bit? Obviously, you're working on a project that I know about. It's called Paradise, what have you. We had a very good, solid first season. Congratulations. These guys directed one and two. They directed seven and eight. So they opened up the show. They closed out the show. It was so nice to know that you were in familiar hands.

For me, you know, stepping into this whole thing. And the cats are... What I love about people who know what they're doing, right, is that there's never a sense of, I have to be in total control of everything at all at once. Like if I had an idea or threw it out, they'd be like, all right. And their conversation occurs in such a natural and easy way that we just sort of like move forward together.

And you guys are amazing, but you're also really amazing at making everybody feel as if they have a seat at the table. So I just want to say, thank you. Oh, that's true.

Yeah.

It worked out.

It worked out. I appreciate the vote of confidence, gentlemen. And we're working together right now just for folks to know they also directed the pilot of Paradise.

In season one, because you, are you in 214? Yeah, you are in 214. Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, forever. You guys are just a package team. It's not so bad.

And if they do their homework, they'll try. I've heard of directors that are like, I've watched all the way up until my episodes, which is impressive.

I do.

old friends and and we're just like that's all i i think that may be the only note i gave you i think glenn on a phone call said he goes like you know the two two happy stuff is doesn't play as well as the more somber and i was like okay that's

You know what's interesting? I feel like we knew our characters, but I'm always... I would hate it, honestly, when the directors felt afraid to give me direction. Because I always feel like an outside eye is going to be able to contribute at least a thought or consideration that I may not have had myself.

So I would get the sense sometimes, especially in later seasons and whatnot, where folks would be like, just good. And I'd be like, OK. And then I would actually have to be like, this is what I'm going to do on this take. I will direct myself. I was like, okay, I got that one. On this one, I know that I could possibly do so-and-so.

And then I do that too, because I didn't want them, I always want them to feel like they have their leg to stand on. And then usually on the guest director, and you guys could come in on this too, you're gonna get the coverage, but you're probably gonna have an idea on a scene or two. Maybe you have like five or six throughout the course that I was like, I'd like to do this shot.

I'd really like to do the show. You know what I'm saying? And so you try to give them all the coverage or whatnot. So I was like, can I please do the show?

And then it's usually a fight with Yasu, who is our DP. Because the DP kind of supersedes the guest director at a certain point because of the continuity. And I even... even on a new show that I do, like I had to witness, oh, please children, can we just get along? Let this person have their shot. Just, you know what I'm saying?

And now as a producer, I'm like, oh God, the kids aren't getting along.

Sure.

That was the other episode. That was the episode because we had Deja. And he was going to the thing that Sophie had asked him to come to and he wound up bailing on her. And that's when you were throwing out all the alts to Justin. So there was one more episode.

What a find. I totally remember that. I was like, no black man wants to be auctioned off. That was the line that you gave me. And I was like, it's a good line.

But yeah.

You got to try it.

As I contemplated it, I said, no, it's good. It's been nothing but a delight. Gentlemen, thank you for making time. Thank you for coming, guys. For coming in, for reminiscing over the good old days as they're about to go off and start planning episode 201 of Paradise. This is John Requa and Glenn Ficarra.

Appreciate it. Very kind. Thank you very much. We'll be back with more.

That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.

Yeah, very near where she grew up. I lived in Fort Greene, and so Pratt's right down the street. Yeah, right.

That's why you go to art school.

That could have gone such the wrong way. But you knew him well enough to know better. That's how you find out.

And then, so then the first thing that you wrote together, was it just by happenstance? Like I'm working on this, let me show it to you. And then you start working together or it's like you formulate an idea together?

Wow.

$7,000.

Could you guys knock them out quick? Like what's the process? Back then we did, yeah.

Let me say this real quick, because one of the important things to realize when you were directed in a John and Glenn episode, and especially when it has like a bit or a comedy thing, like you wind up doing the line as written and then they just stand next to the camera and they give you about 17 different alts that they want you to try.

And you just like take a breath and you're like, and you do the alt or whatever. And they're just like, and they're getting, you can see them just like, okay, say this. Okay, say that. Right? What I want to know is like, because it always seems you guys, no one's ever coming up at the same time to the actors. Do you guys talk at villages? Like who's going to talk to who?

Or is it just the shorthand now to the point where you're like, oh no, I don't want to say this to so-and-so and I'm going to say this to so-and-so.

Yeah.

So we're now on two projects together, This Is Us and Paradise. And I'm curious because you guys are writers, is it a different approach to directing something that you've written versus taking somebody else's words and directing those? Like how do they compare and contrast?

No such thing as stupid questions, guys. We know that.

Sure.

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Yes.

Obviously.

Period. That was always a funny thing for me. I'm like, why do they love each other?

There's some codependence right there. No.

And she doesn't.

Strawberry frosted. That was your joint? Strawberry frosted.

I think about this all the time. I'm like, our parents, well, my parents let me have a Pop-Tart or a toaster strudel. Do you remember those? I do. I definitely remember toaster strudels. That is with sugar on top. Because you got to pack it.

They had a cereal? That's what we ate.

Oh, yeah, they did.

Oh, my God.

Pop-Tarts?

Oh, yeah. Sterling.

Guys, they made it. Something's happening in St.

And you went through it in a day?

But less the calories, there is zero nutritional content. That's what I think about. There's energy.

That's when you sleep. And learn anything when that was how we were fueling our bodies. Yeah.

Kate's going to go to Berkeley, perhaps.

And he's a little off.

Kate basically admits that she never sent the tape into Berkeley. That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah, she's staying home with Kevin.

I'm from Florida. You enjoy? I've had fried okra. I don't mind it.

Interesting.

Come on. That's a bridge too far.

Yeah, yeah. It can be a little heavier, heftier. Thank you, baby.

It's very effortless.

Slash Sterling.

Can I say that? I was thinking the same thing.

There was health.

Vitality back in his eyes. Yeah.

I mean, it was an, you know what I mean? And there's so many extras. Like all the logistics of being on a location we had. Yeah. It was outside. It was hot. Yeah.

Yeah. I thought the same thing. I was like, wow, that's a proper street light. Yeah. You just go to Home Depot for that?

You just read that on his face. Like, what could have been?