Stephanie Ruhle
Appearances
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
There's nothing like the Musk situation in the Biden administration.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
One more on just the CEOs, because your Jamie Dimon point is, I think, appropriate. And it's another one of the reasons I want to talk about this, because I think that's reasonable. I mean, it might not be how I would want to act as a CEO, but it's defensible, right? Like he has this, he has a lot of contingencies. He's not down there tossing Trump's salad. If he has to do it, he has to do it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
But whatever, right? Okay. But here's the thing with some of these guys. And my colleague Jonathan Last wrote about this for his triad the other week. It's like, isn't the point of having fuck you money that you can say fuck you?
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
That's why they call it fuck you money, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
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The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
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The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
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The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
You know, this is obviously something we're thinking about right now as far as what kind of information is out there about me and my family in the public sphere. I've been talking to a lot of folks who've had scary things happening, whether it be getting swatted or People show up to their house. It's a scary time out there.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Yeah. You're bucking me up right now. I was in the green room. I was talking about how I've been weeknight drinking. You're like, I'm not drinking. I'm keeping it sober. I'm excited. This is fun. And I'm beaten down. I need you. I need you to be my wake-up call in the morning. Be like, you got this, Tim.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
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The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
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The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
like that the largest government contractor was the largest donor to the president, is now going to have an office in the White House. And according to a report from Jeff Stein out today, there's an internal fight about that office. Initially, it was not going to be inside the White House. Musk wanted it to be.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Musk wanted technology and AI access to government data that you can only get if you're on the inside so that he can-
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
More than that, it also is going to allow him to go after his foes. And you're already seeing this publicly. He does it on Twitter, trolling people. But there was an announcement, I guess, yesterday that Trump was trying to take credit for the investment that OpenAI – and Sam Altman is going to do now. It was like one of these stupid PR gambits. Tim Cook did this for Trump last time.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
They're like, hey, we're going to build a new plant, and you can get the credit, sir. So Altman was trying to do that, and Musk is tweeting, Altman doesn't have the money. They don't have the money because he's got a rivalry with him. So he's undermining Trump, and then he's going to have access to the data and information inside the White House. I mean, it's an unprecedented situation.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
You can take the host out of the host chair, but she's still going to be hosting the show and asking me questions.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
No, I look, they're in the sour spot on this. I'll just give a couple of examples. I'm, I'm, I'm going to, we're in a Tom Friedman for a second. I like talking to humans. And so the humans I talk to are Uber drivers, gentlemen at the gay bar and, you know, baristas and security guards. So over the past, like a little bit, just like you mentioned the student loan thing.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
I said this during the summer, probably in this podcast, the guy recognized the young guy recognized me at the bar, comes out to me and he's like, Hey, he's like, when's Joe Biden going to forgive my student loans?
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Because he didn't get, he didn't make the cut or whatever. Right. Like it was like the age I didn't have, you know what I mean? I wasn't, I wasn't asking.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Yeah. So he ended up in this sour spot, right? Where like, We're like a lot of kind of college educated people that were already in the Biden tent got loans forgiven and did kind of give credit. But like, you know, there wasn't a lot and not a net gain. And then the people they were struggling with, working class folks, young folks are pissed about Gaza. We're hearing about it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
I needed this. Okay. I didn't even know. I was just trying to make some small talk at the top of the podcast, but that was useful. All right. Uh, I mean, just because besides the fact that I just like hanging out with you, I think it was on your Friday night, 11th hour show where you have kind of the little happy hour vibe going. Yeah. And, uh,
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Like, where's my bag? Right. So I was just downstairs this morning and I was talking to the guy at the security guard at this hotel since I'm stuck at the Hotel California, Trump's inauguration week. I can never leave because I can't go home to New Orleans because of the snow.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
And so but I've made friends with my guy downstairs and he starts ranting to me about the tick tock thing and the nine dollar congestion fee. He comes in from upstate. He's like, I got to pay the nine bucks now. I'm an hourly worker. He's like, maybe Trump's going to fix that for me. Like he fixed the TikTok thing.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
So this guy says to me, whatever you think about the congestion fee and the student loan bailout and the TikTok ban, because I'm on two of those three. I'm on the Democratic side of the actual policy. But you also have to think about how people interact with stuff and how it engages with their lives. And they're so bad at talking about it and thinking about gimmicks that actually help people.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
And I think that you've seen this on all of this stuff. You mentioned this AI thing. They're doing some regulation to protect people, but they're not messaging about it, so they get no credit for it. But they do get backlashes.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
among all the rich guys that like are now supporting donald trump because they want unregulated ai it's just time and again you find yourself in a political sour spot where you're trying to do the right thing but like not finding a way to talk about it that so that people realize you're helping them and like i just think that is fundamentally their biggest challenge
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
And you were ranting about how you have more masculine energy than Mark Zuckerberg and talking about how all these CEOs put in their own DEI programs, are now mad at themselves and their own employees. And they're all – I don't think you said the P word, but we can say it now in Donald Trump 2.0, and you seem to maybe be implying it deep down.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
I totally agree. And it's hard to find Democrats right there who are out there who, like, can let it rip. And it's like there needs to be a deprogramming class. We can host a deprogramming seminar. We're not doing DEI seminars anymore, so we can maybe do talking, like talking like a human deprogramming seminar.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
I'm not even advocating that they change positions on any of these things. It's like, but find things that resonate with people, right? Find gimmicks. That is politics. Unfortunately, that's politics. It might feel crass or whatever. And talk about it like normal people. It's hard to think about something that people can grab onto. They're like, oh, I'm excited that the Dems are pushing this.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Okay, here's what could happen for them, though. It could work out in their favor. Donald Trump could fuck everything up. And that could end up being what people grab onto. And I just want to go back to what you were talking about earlier about crypto. I think that there are a lot of people, a lot of people listen to this podcast, that if you're not in the crypto world, it's hard to understand.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Right. And so as soon as you start hearing the words, they talk about the exchanges and all this, you're like, whatever. Okay. Blockchain. But here's the thing. They have essentially... said that crypto is going to be unregulated. They've got rid of Gary Gensler. AI is unregulated.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
You bring in this new group, these pump and dump schemes where people create fake coins that have no actual value like Trump did. Insiders put a bunch of money in. They try to get regular rubes to put the money in. Stock goes up. They make a lot of money. Stock crashes. Real people lose their money. Womp womp.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
I think that that is going to be de facto legal during the next four years because they're not going to regulate it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Yeah, or if it gets tied in, and this is what I wanted to ask you about, any of your old Deutsche Bank pals are thinking about it. To me, it feels like some of the banks are going to get exposed for this, right? Because one of the regulations that the Biden administration was trying to put in was like,
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
And I was like, I need to talk about this stuff with Steph.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
creating some rules kind of like they did in Dodd-Frank that separates the risky investments out from whatever, the stable mortgages, et cetera. That feels like that's going to end now.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Yeah. And this is broadly about Trump. Who knows? And it's like we might have got through that first four years if it wasn't for the pandemic. And that first three years, he kind of bungled his way through.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Sometimes we like to, in America, we like to treat our presidents as if they're omniscient and all good things that happen in the world are their credit and all bad things that happen in the world are their fault. But sometimes it's just luck. You're in there. Bill Clinton Clinton was in there at kind of a good time for the economy, and it worked out. He also did some smart things, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
But like, sometimes it's just luck. Sometimes you have bad luck. And so maybe Trump will have good luck.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Yeah, there is also a potential crash. I mean, the types of studies you're talking about, we haven't had a recession in a while. The tariffs are unpredictable, what the impact is going to be. This exposure on crypto is unpredictable. Imagine if FTX had been more tied. At that time, FTX was pretty separate.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
But if FTX was tied more broadly into the broader financial system, that could have been a massive crisis that hurt regular people, not just people that got screwed over by Sam Brankman Freed. and got in on his drift.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
It's like all of these people that are going into the, Andreessen and Sachs, and all these people that are going into the White House now with a mandate that like, we're going to deregulate, we're getting the government out of AI. They all got bailed out by the Biden government.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Don't think about how bad the actual Great Recession was.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Now you're talking about 1999 in suburban Denver. All right. I got to get on Scotty Besant before I lose you. So he testifies. He's going to be confirmed. He is. Besant. I'm mispronouncing his name. I got to get it right.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
The two interesting things with the testimony for me is, one, there's a Raphael Warnock exchange where he's like, so you're going to extend the Trump tax cuts for everybody to $1 million? $50 million? $100 million? $1 billion? You know, it keeps going up. And Besant's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. We need to extend the Trump tax cuts even for billionaires.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Right. And so this is kind of what I wanted to get to, which is he was adamant about this, right? So it seems like the Trump administration position, as we know for right now, is that they're going to extend all the Trump tax cuts even for the richest people and all the corporations, which is going to be about a $4 or $5 trillion price tag.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
And you have at least a handful of House Republicans that still claim to care about the budget. And they have a two seat majority. And so I just think with all of the craziness happening, it's like the Elon, you know, see Kyle salute and all the things you want to talk about. Like the real fight that's coming is like in your wheelhouse, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Is this is this like the Treasury Secretary's testimony? And maybe one way they try to fake their way out of it is by actually doing the tariffs, because then they can be like, well, the tariffs will pay for this. You know, it's kind of like a an updated version of the tax cuts will pay for themselves. It's like the tariffs will pay for the tax cut extension.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
And that's a real financial pickle, I think, that's for some people.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
And the MAGA voters who are on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. All right, final question. I want to circle this back to the initial question. Because of all we talked about, what's been undergirding all this? You have all the billionaires sitting behind Donald Trump. You have Scott Besant saying that they're going to extend the tax cuts on the wealthiest and on all these corporations.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
We have the vibe shift when it comes to, you know, whatever, DEI and cultural issues. Are these guys ready, your CEO buddies, your CEO sources? Are they ready for what's coming? Because I think what they're setting themselves up for is I think they're going to be wishing for the annoyance of DEI when it gets replaced with the annoyance of eat the rich.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Because populist economics is what's coming next. from the left. And I think these guys are going to be begging for the struggle sessions about diversity hiring when what they're getting is mass protests about economic inequality.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
We will. Steph Ruhl, thanks for doing this. Thanks for having me. We're going to have a lot of reason for you to come back. It feels like the masters of the universe are back in vogue and back in power. And so we'll have much to talk about. So thanks so much.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
I would love that. I keep waiting for somebody to invite me. So if Jaden makes it, I assume that you'll be giving me your plus one and I'll see you there in New Orleans.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
We love it. Jay, it's been a Trump derangement syndrome and Jaden Daniels fanboy podcast this week because, you know, we need some light in our life. Steph Rule, thank you so much.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
tim people are gonna stop listening to this podcast if you tell them that all right thank you everybody come on back tomorrow we'll see you back here then and i'll give you the darkness you've become accustomed to but maybe with a little happier me and thanks to that pep talk from staff we'll see y'all then see ya
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
She was formerly an anchor for Bloomberg and a managing director at Deutsche Bank. What's going on, Steph?
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Are you excited about this? Do you have four years of 11 p.m. commentary on Donald Trump's antics in you mentally?
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
We haven't seen Priscilla, I noticed.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
I agree with everything you're saying as analysis that this is how CEOs feel. I mean, you talk to more CEOs than I do. Even trickle down to the types of people that I talk to that work for CEOs. I'm not defending it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
I know you're not. I know you're not. I agree with the analysis. Here's my thing, though. When you're having these conversations, what I wonder, you mentioned they felt like they had so much pressure to do all these initiatives and that this is now an attempt that there can be some backlash against this. And I saw a post by my man Tyler Austin Harper, and he wrote this.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
None of the corporate overlords shrieking about liberation from wokeness want to own the fact that nobody put a gun to their head and said they needed to do insane progressive HR programming or pay Ibram X. Kendi $532 a minute for Zoom calls. They could have simply done nothing or they could have simply just done their little Citibank's gay pride float. Now, this isn't Tyler anymore.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
This is me editorializing and not done all the other stuff. They did it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
From who? Not Joe Biden. It wasn't like the Biden administration was breathing down their neck saying, you've got to do this, ESG.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
And it was also a little bit of a headache of their own making. This is what I'm saying. If you want to bring some masculine energy, Mr. CEOs, and I do notice we're worried that simultaneously saying DEI has become a problem and gone overboard, all of the oligarchs sitting right behind Donald Trump on stage are men, are white men, except for Sundar.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
So it's like, I guess we haven't fully, you know, achieved balance quite yet when it comes to gender. But it's like these guys that want to bring masculine energy, they could have just said, hey, activist group writing a press release about how my company doesn't have the appropriate number of whatever, you know, since I'm gay, I can just.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
use gays as the example, like gay employees, like pound sand. Like we're trying to get money for our shareholders. We're doing the best we can. Like they could have had balls. Like why did they need Donald Trump winning to give them balls? I guess is my point.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
The boss side did pretty good the last five years too, though. I'm a capitalist. This is why I'm saying I'm like, I don't get why they're so much more sensitive than me. I'm generally on all their side. Look, if the economy was doing poorly, if their stock prices were going down, like none of that was happening. They just didn't like the hassle. I guess this is what I'm trying to get under it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
They didn't like the hassle. It wasn't really like their shareholders were being hurt by this or that their bottom line was being hurt. They didn't like the hassle.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Is this cope? Do you really feel this way?
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
We can nitpick about the Democrats a little more in a second, but I just, you're talking to these guys and I'm not. So I just want to pick your brain on this because this is another thing that I just think about. I also am annoyed by some of the stuff. I had to do an HR training the other week that was like for a child. And the way that they talk to you, it's condescending.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Yeah, are you coping? Is this you convincing yourself about this because you have to go into the salt mines every day and talk about this? Or is this honest? Or is this true?
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
And all the situations they put you in, it's like, what if an Asian person in the office and a white person had a disagreement? It's like, why are we doing all that? So there's some of the stuff that is stupid.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
We can say the P word on the Bullock podcast again. That's nice. He was anonymous.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Yeah. I said this during the first Trump term. I was like, why are we letting Kellyanne shit talk Bannon anonymously behind the scenes? Like that's not serving anything. Like if there's a whistleblower, sure. If there's somebody that's like leaking you something that they're not supposed to, sure. But like trash talking, you know, saying, oh yeah, I get to say retard now. I'm like, okay then.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
All right. If you can, then let's say it. What bank are you at again? Let's hear it. And by the way, I think you were probably saying it before if you're saying it now.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
We'll see how it goes. So anyway, I wanted to set the table with that because I'm saying I concur that there are some annoying things about the post, the shift, right? Maybe there was overstepping. Maybe some of the stuff was silly. But if you're making a risk assessment, these CEOs are at the top of their game. And their job every day is risk reward. How do I make money? How do I mitigate risk?
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. It is Wednesday. We're in the third day of Donald Trump's second presidency. There's only like 1,300 or 1,400 or so days to go, so no big deal. I'm excited to be here. First time we get to turn the tables. Stephanie Ruhl, host of the 11th Hour with Stephanie Ruhl on MSNBC. She's a senior business correspondent with NBC News.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
It is astonishing to me that none of them Looked at Donald Trump and we're like, okay, well, the reward is I won't have to do diversity interviews again, I guess, or people will come back into the office. But the risk is going to be, who knows, 25% tariff that tanks the economy. Who knows what this guy could do? He's unpredictable. He's chaotic.
The Bulwark Podcast
Stephanie Ruhle: Unlimited Money and No Rules
But they didn't oppose him either, really.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
A huge investor called me just yesterday, just based on these rumors that the White House has denied about them potentially having a military parade. You know, if we were to have a military parade in honor of our president, if that were to happen, that should rock us to our core because that's what Kim Jong-un does, right? That's what we see in dictatorships. Pair that
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
with ignoring a Supreme Court ruling. Lots of folks out there would say, oh my goodness, just get rid of those illegal immigrants. They're all criminals. We make a few mistakes, so be it. I'm glad with what Trump is doing. There's a group of people who say that. But there is a group of surprising people in the investor class who are paying super close attention to this Maryland man
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Hey, hey, hey. Yeah, all of those things are right, but today I'm just psyched to be here with you.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
who has been detained, who's in an El Salvador prison. And the reason they're so concerned about it is because Trump is openly and brazenly ignoring a Supreme Court ruling. And one of the main reasons that people invest in America and believe in America. A core tenant of American exceptionalism is that we follow the rule of law. We have three separate but equal branches of government.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Congress does their job. We follow the rule of law. We invest in science. We back our universities. When we don't do that, That breaks down the foundation of American exceptionalism. So it was interesting to me, calls that I was surprised to get from investors who were so focused on this idea, could we have a military parade?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And is Trump going to continue to ignore a Supreme Court ruling and hide behind this sort of Well, I'd bring him home if it wasn't for the president of El Salvador. Explain to me, on one hand, you're the strongest of the strong men, right? Who thinks you rule the world, but now you're going to hide behind the president of El Salvador? No one believes that.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And it's interesting to me that that has so many in the investor community concerned.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Just a little bit of me this morning. Just find and enjoy wherever we can.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Because a significant portion of Americans understand the contributions these immigrants make to our country, right? Let's go to the state of Florida, Donald Trump's adopted home state. So we're going to mass deport the people who pick our fruits and vegetables, okay? The people responsible for the produce at your grocery store and in your kitchen. And what are we doing to counter that?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Well, we're lowering the regulations in Florida. So children to the age of 14 can now work, I think, until 9 p.m. at night. OK, so again, we're talking about denting American exceptionalism. We're going to Remove immigrants who came here for a better life, who are willing to take those low-wage, intensely laborious jobs. So what? Our kids can do those jobs?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And this goes right back to if Donald Trump wanted to say – If Donald Trump wanted to say China is a bad actor in terms of trade, and they are, and if we wanted to get together with our allies, which we wanted to do at the end of the Obama administration with the Trans-Pacific Partnership, and take them on, have at it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Or if he wanted to say, we're really going to tariff them, but this idea that Howard Lutnick had pushed, and we're going to start making iPhones here, we don't want that for our kids. We want to invest in education.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
We want to improve education so our kids can have higher skill jobs, so they're designing the next iPhone, so they're designing the next car, not so they're assembling every piece of it. It just makes absolutely no sense.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
So we're going to bail out the farmers. We know when Donald Trump first announced this, The tariffs and wasn't mentioning bailing out any farmers. He said this is going to be great for farmers. Have fun, guys. Never realizing that we as a country produce more food than we could ever consume. Right. They need to export.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
I was talking about summer ahead, summer travel tips. And, you know, it's so funny, even in sort of like the most basic safe place that you're talking, people are looking at the tariff situation. They're looking at the international situation and they're worried and they should be.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
So now we're going to write these giant checks to farmers because we want to save the American farmer. Aren't we supposed to care about debt and deficits? Aren't we supposed to care about government spending? So on the left hand, you have Doge taking a rhinestone bedazzled chainsaw to vital parts of the government.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And now on the other side, we have to write a check to American farmers to make sure they can stay in business because of the tariffs we've imposed. The problem is there's no logical strategy behind any of this.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
So here's why this matters. And people like to like gaze off when you talk about bonds. But I'm just going to I'm going to lay it out just for a second. Normally, when the stock market goes down, people rush to bonds. And we say, what are bonds? That's U.S. treasuries.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And, you know, a few weeks ago, early tariff talk, when the stock market started to go down, we saw the likes of Scott Bessa and others say, well, this is good because we are going to see rates go down. And this will help us because we have a huge amount of government debt that is coming due, $6 trillion in June that has to get refinanced.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
So they had this idea, well, the stock market will go down and we are going to see people rush to buy treasuries. So people rush to buy treasuries. That means the price goes up and the yield goes down. But what's happening, in my opinion, is the scariest thing. Normally, stocks go down and you see people rush to buy treasuries. They're not. They're not rushing to buy treasuries.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Because they're not trusting the U.S. dollar. They're not trusting the U.S. Exactly. They're going for the gold, not Olympic style. They're going for the gold because it's the only trusted asset. So for people who aren't even invested in the markets, you're hazing over. You're right. When those rates go up, that means your credit card is going to cost more to pay. That's your mortgage.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
any sort of loan. So tariffs are going to make everything cost more. And now what it costs you to borrow is going up as well. And that's a perfect storm. And the question will be, will Jay Powell and the Fed have to step in and buy bonds, which is crazy. That they should do that when the economy is so strong.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
No, it's will the Fed come in and start buying up treasuries? Because as long as we're talking trade war, and I promise I won't get that nerdy, one of the problems is some of the largest holders... The people who own the most treasuries are other countries. China is one of the biggest holders of U.S. treasuries.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And if they decide to dump them or not show up for our next treasury auction, that's what a nasty trade war looks like. And they have the ability to do that. They've been quietly buying up and publicly buying up U.S. treasuries for years and years and years. And they've got us by the bond balls.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
What's happening on a global scale, as soon as you see people just stopping travel... It's just another window into what I think is the biggest problem here. And it's this crisis of confidence and what we've spent decades and decades and decades building our relationship and our trust around the world, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
In part, because it's ignoring the fact that even if you are in manufacturing, we have a global supply chain. Okay. So take autos for a second. It's not that we don't build cars here. We do. We efficiently build cars here.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
parts of it we build here, parts of it we build in Mexico, some parts of it we build in Canada, or even if you wanted to build a whole new plant, the pieces you need, the parts you need come from abroad. So this notion of this manufacturing renaissance that's coming back was completely ill-conceived because there was no strategic planning around it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And that's why you're seeing, yes, even manufacturing get hurt.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Well, I would say Donald Trump is most definitely happy. The Trump family is happy. Donald Trump is wealthier than he's ever been. When he was actually a businessman in real estate, he inherited a huge New York real estate portfolio where he lost an enormous amount of money. But finally, as president of the United States in 2025, he and his family are wealthier beyond their wildest dreams.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And where has he made money? in businesses that many people believe are Ponzi-like. Crypto, in his massive crypto exchange, and Truth Social, which is a social media platform that doesn't actually make any significant money, but trades at a huge, huge multiple. Because whether it's Trump's meme coin or his crypto exchange or Truth Social,
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
The greatest way you can get something from Trump and curry a favor is to give him money. If you ask me what business has been spending the most amount of time down at Mar-a-Lago, it's crypto guys, right? You're seeing Justin Sun who's being investigated by the government and his company. This is the guy who bought a piece of art. It was a banana duct tape for $6.5 million.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
He put $75 million into Trump's business and that investigation into him, poof, it went away. Last week, the Department of Justice announced they are going to end prosecuting and investigating crypto as an industry. They are only going to look at it. if the crypto is being spent on terrorism or trafficking or real, real bad crimes. So Donald Trump himself is making a killing, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
While everybody was spinning, panicked over what to do with tariffs, he was at Mar-a-Lago for the live golf tournament, making an enormous amount of money. And so I would compare where we are to Russia in the 1990s as they were breaking down their government and their economy to the studs and privatizing it. That's where we're headed.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Globalization, while it was really tough for parts of this country, for parts of our economy, globalization is also why, in large part, we as a globe have prospered. And the fact that we're seeing bits of it and chunks of it break down, that's the most worrisome thing.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
That makes me think about Eric Trump, who has repeatedly said, I'm a private businessman. I have nothing to do with the government. What, are you kidding me? This is a person who just weeks ago said, you know, buy crypto, it looks cheap when there was a dip. And then just a couple of days later, the White House announces, oh, we may be putting together a crypto reserve.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And when I talk to some of the biggest names in finance, something that is just making their heads spin, Just think about this. The government is defunding science to buy crypto, right? If that doesn't warn you, if that doesn't concern you and put you in a panic, it should. And this is a business that has no transparency. I remember Eric Trump saying, you know, we learned about crypto.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
We got involved in crypto after January 6th when no one would do business with us. Red flag. If no one will do business with you, but crypto has its arms open wide and ready to embrace you, then there's something up with crypto.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And I actually know some really smart, sophisticated crypto investors who hate what Trump is doing in the crypto space, because even though in the short term it's great for them, it delegitimizes it. Because if you believe in the legitimacy of crypto, what he's doing right now just makes it look like, you know, crimes that they've legalized.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
That spring, the Statue of Liberty is now wrapped and tangled into that spring. And that goes right back to what he's doing with Harvard. Donald Trump and Stephen Miller love this fight with Harvard because they want to present this as their war against sort of liberalism and universities.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
But where it's so misguided and where the American people should understand it, this is not about anti-Semitism.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And just the notion that they are taking money from the likes of Harvard and they want you to close your eyes and think that there's a professor somewhere smoking a pipe who's panicked that they're going to lose their tenure and they're not going to be able to go on a reading tour this summer. No. If you looked at the humanities budget at Harvard or Yale or any of these schools,
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
It's a rounding error. When Donald Trump pulls $2 billion from Harvard and threatens their tax exempt status, the only thing I want you to think about is Harvard's medical research. The work that they do for decades and decades, I'm going to get choked up thinking about it, and the millions of lives that it saves, right? Our medical research, the kind of research
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
that the government funds is the research that private industry won't because there's not going to be a vaccine right away and they can't turn it around and make money off of it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
But we've got people that are plagued with terminal diseases and illnesses that you've got our best in class, world renowned medical centers, researching and studying scientists who devote their lives to it, who could work, in private industry, but they don't.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And so this idea that we're pulling from Harvard, it's such an attack on us and so much misinformation that people don't understand that like, these aren't people at the Harvard Club or people like, you know, suddenly, you know, at Skull and Bones at Yale, like they'll be SOL. No, these are career researchers who are trying to save lives and they're going to be missing out.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And by them missing out, we're going to miss out.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Yeah. They want wins. I get it. Or charitable foundations are going to give money where they're scaled, where there's lots and lots of people suffering.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
But for your friend and his or her daughter or son, that's who I fear for.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
You can't—I'll tell you, on a silly topic, every time I keep talking about Harvard and their endowment, I had a guest last night who said, well-endowed, and then, of course, I fell off my chair because then I can't pay attention anymore.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And I'm like, why? Why? Didn't you know I was the host? Couldn't you just say big endowment? Why did you have to say well-endowed? Now I've lost the whole segment. Girthy endowment. Okay, fine.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Okay, here's my take. My take on... Elon Musk. And remember, I mean, his father has many, many, many, many children. I think his last two are with his stepdaughter. When I hear about Elon Musk, when I read about Elon Musk, when I watch him in his paternity spats on Twitter with his most recent mother of his child, you know what I actually think about? Democrats. And here's why.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
If Democrats cannot successfully peel any family values voters, okay? And I thought of this because a couple weeks ago, I was speaking to Art Cullen from Iowa. And I was asking, what would it take for Iowa to not be a deep red state? And he said, nothing. Democrats have lost us forever. You know, we're a family value state, blah, blah, blah. And I've been thinking, you've got a current president
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
who has been married four times, who blah, blah, blah. We know how he talks about women, all of that. We have a shadow president with at least 13 children. And the story that you just laid out cites on a legion of children by many, many, many women.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
How is it that Democrats can't take this reality and make some sort of inroads with family values voters when the idea of family is inclusion, is to love thy neighbor? It is to accept people for exactly who they are and take them in and love them forever.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
If Democrats cannot successfully peel any portion of family values voters away from a Donald Trump and a shadow Elon Musk and his legion of offspring, then I don't know what to tell you, Democrats. You need some new strategy. What do you think about that?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
lots of people were offended and aghast when Trump first time, I believe went to a black church in Chicago or Michigan and said, Vote for me. What do you have to lose? Look at your situation, right? And people were offended. But there were some people who said like, yeah, my situation isn't getting any better. Democrats can do the same thing with family values voters. They can do the same thing.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Donald Trump, look how well he's done with Latino voters. Given what's happening in terms of illegal deportations, can't Democrats take that one on as well? Not everybody, but how about some?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Oh, my God. I'm so glad you brought this up. Did you see this? Yeah. I'm so glad you brought this up.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
The absurdity about the vibe shift is this. Wall Street, investors' core responsibility is is to assess risk. That's what you do in finance. You figure out what is the risk ahead and how do I place a bet? How do I make an investment based on that?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
When I first saw that, I had to listen to it three times. First of all, because I give Chuck Grassley credit for being a 91-year-old who actually is standing up and having a town hall. But I was like, hold on a minute. This is the question he's being asked at an Iowa town hall? I was surprised by it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
But it is also a reminder that Iowa has a huge immigrant population because of all the meat processing plants.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Storm Lake has a huge amount of immigrants. And I remember Art Collins saying to me once, and I was like, why? And he said... Because if the last place you were living was a Somalian refugee camp, then you don't mind coming here and sweeping pig blood and cutting the hind off a pig every day.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
So just the idea that those are ungettable voters, I don't believe that's true.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Tim, let Donald Trump be every person with political aspirations model. Did anyone on planet Earth think he was going to be president once? Actually twice? No. Nobody. And so like this idea, it's not worth it. Don't try. Every vote counts. Try.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And what we saw after the inauguration was this enthusiasm around a vibe that we're going to get no regulation, that we're going to get tax cuts and yeah. you know, DEI and all that nonsense that was strangling our productivity and profitability. We're going to rip through that. Well, that's what they made the priority.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Because if we're talking about, we're sitting here saying, we're going to bring money in this country through tariffs. We're going to get rid of all these workers. That's how we're going to improve things. No. If we just collected our taxes, right, we leave so much money on the floor. And the way we won't do that is if we have employed tax professionals. But instead, we're gutting the IRS.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
We're having thousands of people unemployed. opt in for the layoffs, the early retirement, which is crazy because if people aren't working at the IRS, they're not going to collect their taxes. And the people they're not going to collect their taxes from are from the wealthiest people who aren't just making a regular paycheck.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
The people who can put trusts here, there, and everywhere, they can avoid paying taxes. And if you really wanted to improve the IRS or improve our tax system. What I would love to see is the great minds of Doge, those great tech leaders that surrounded Donald Trump at the inauguration.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
I would love for them to come into the government, volunteer their brainpower and their effort, and improve our system. The computer system that the IRS works on is called COBOL. It is so old that when there are kinks and problems with it, there aren't even humans alive who know that system to fix it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
So you've got the IRS, the most important agency in the government that brings in the tax dollars that we need to service this country working with one hand tied behind their back. And now 20 plus percent of them are potentially out the door. This to me is such a grave mistake and oversight.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And it shows that is the government, is this administration really looking to tighten up the screws and bring things in? That's not the case given how they're treating the IRS right now.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And they ignored the promises and pledges and point of view that Donald Trump has had for decades and decades. And now we're seeing it play out. The funniest thing I think we're seeing right now is just this longing, this missing of a Steve Mnuchin, a Gary Cohn, a Jared Kushner, who in the first administration held Donald Trump in.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
That's what's so absurd with like what we now have in this bro wokeness of like Trump wins. And it's like electric cars, forget them. Big coal, bring it on back. Like who is, who is big coal going to help? Like you want to help us, Virginia. Let's bring industry there. Let's bring new jobs there. Nobody should be looking to bring back the black lung.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
You know, I've also noticed some members in the administration are wearing these gold buttons that are Trump's face.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Listen, that's the forever reminder that every product Donald Trump has ever made has been produced overseas. And this idea, right, if you and I wanted to end this podcast and go walk through the garment district of New York or take a deep look at clothing and home design and furniture manufacturing in the United States, we have some furniture manufacturing.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
But apparel, home decor, we don't do that here. And so it's absurd. And the thing is, Trump knows that. His families know that. Go to any of his homes. Go to Mar-a-Lago. If people wanted, if they truly wanted to buy from Made in the USA, we would be there. But our president, along with the American people, made a decision years ago that wasn't a priority for us.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And that's why the gold medallions in the White House and probably the ones in yours are made overseas. Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
When people rail on what I look like, especially like when I go on podcast, what does she look like? And I'm like, you know what? I was unaware that this was, that you and I were here competing for Mr. And Miss universe, but I saw you getting your party on at Coachella. And I just thought, I mean, I just thought it was amazing. Who is your favorite performer? I'm guessing Gaga.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Well, there you go. Well, welcome home.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And the thing that concerns me so much right now, Tim, I can tell you, I speak to investors here, abroad, business leaders here and abroad. Right now, I cannot find one single smart, serious person, voice of influence, even those who like the general idea of Trump's tariffs, not one single person who is on board or happy with the execution and the rollout
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
of what has happened over the last two weeks, save two groups. There are two people that are okay with it. And those are people that are deep in Trump's inner circle who are convincing themselves if they keep French braiding his hair and telling him he's the greatest master super leader ever, then they'll be able to gently push back on him.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
They're fancying themselves a Gary Cohn, a Steve Mnuchin, a Jared.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Put that over there. And then the other group of people who are business people who are specifically on the take, who are getting some sort of carve outs, whether because of an exemption, whether they own a private prison, whether they're in crypto, where they're in a space where they are making so much money because of what Trump's doing, they're willing to ignore all the rest that he's doing.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And that is when you say, oh, when people talk about American oligarchy, that's right there. So those two categories of people on the inner circle who believe they can convince them otherwise or those who are personally banking so much money, they're just going to build a moat around their castle and say, damn the rest of us.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Yes. A hundred percent. And when you, when you think about what over the weekend, when, when, when we thought, you know, suddenly, uh, Apple and, um, These other tech businesses are going to get the exemption. When I talk to other business people, immediately they're like, damn, who are our lobbyists? How do we get to Mar-a-Lago?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And as confusing as Trump's messaging has been, he's had one consistent message to him. I've got my views, but I'm flexible. Come on down to Mar-a-Lago and maybe we can make a deal. And that's what it is. Right. We even I've talked about this before. The five million dollar one on one meeting you can have with him. The one on one candlelight dinner you can go to at Mar-a-Lago.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And each of those people in the tech universe are vying to stay closer and closer to him. You know, people have said, like, why does Jeff Bezos even want to own The Washington Post? He's not interested in it. Jeff Bezos owning the Washington Post is the most valuable thing he can do to stay close to Trump.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Because as much as Trump likes lining his pockets with money, which tons of people are willing to do for him, he cares so, so much about the press. He cares so, so much about what the Washington Post has to say about him. And Jeff Bezos having any ability or an outsized ability to influence that media outlet, that's a huge value to Trump. And we see Trump is about what is in it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
How does this advantage him? And that's how he makes decisions.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
He's got, you know what though, Tim? Shame on them. Totally. Especially Wall Street guys. They knew him. So when we've had to watch Howard Lutnick say, let Trump be the business guy that he is, art of the deal. Yeah, that's what he's doing. And any person who works at any investment bank in New York knows exactly the business guy that he was, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
When he was in business, when he was in business, Jimmy Morgan didn't do business with him. Goldman Sachs didn't do business with him. Morgan Stanley didn't. My bank, Deutsche Bank, compared to those banks is like the dog track of banks. They were willing to do business with him and find a contractor, find a counterparty. He never stood up to his deals, right? Never.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
I remember years ago talking to a hedge fund manager who he did some kind of deal with Trump. I don't remember what it was. And the day after the deal closed, I remember telling you the story. Trump said, let's say this guy was making 50 million and Trump was making 10. Trump said, can we reverse those numbers for the New York Post? And the guy's like, what?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
All Trump cared about was the headline. And the other guy was like, yeah, as long as I'm getting the money, as long as you're getting diluted. And most of the companies that Trump ran, at the end of the day, he was diluted down to only owning 2% and having his name on the door. But he didn't actually own any of them. It was all about bluster and show.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And so now here you have a person, the leader of the free world, you know, negotiating these deals. Just yesterday, he said, like, we want China to make a deal with us. If you're the person with the strong hand, why are you begging the other one to come to the table? And this is what has people so worried. Can they trust what he's saying?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
For Wall Street, you can actually make a ton of money in volatile markets, right? You can buy and sell no sweat. In a recession, you can bet against the market. But Tim, if you ran any sort of business, how on earth would you plan? Today, United Airlines put forward guidance, two separate lanes. Here's what guidance would look like if we face the tariffs.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Here's what it would look like if we won't. Because under what Trump is doing, we actually have a strong, stable economy. It's why things have moved so much, because they're like, if only he would just get back in the ring, we could be OK. But there's no sign of him doing that.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Companies are either pulling guidance entirely because they don't know what's ahead. Or now we're seeing like United, they're giving two outlooks. But think about the last week. Jamie Dimon said, we got a rocky road ahead. Larry Fink said, we may already be in a recession. Goldman has adjusted their GDP outlook to basically zero for 2025. And all of that falls squarely on Donald Trump.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And something I would connect this to, you talk about young voters all the time. Think about all the support Donald Trump had, especially from young men. We've seen that support plummet. And you know why? Because, yeah, they wanted to end wokeness and they wanted to be the men that they were again until they realized, oh, no, the most important thing is the economy.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And suddenly, with rates where they are, if I need almost 500 grand for my first home, I don't have money like that.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
If suddenly all the businesses I want to work at, the graduate degree I want to get, the research job I want to get is gone, suddenly they don't care so much about Trump ending wokeness, half of which wasn't even true, because you're actually seeing our concrete economy, our place in the world as a superpower, start to be in question.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
Because tariffs, especially in the way that he's rolling them out, are the most restrictive rules. And when you've got a White House that does not have a unified message, I mean, let's just be honest. You've got Scott Besant saying something different from Howard Lutnick. You've got Trump saying on Sunday, right, when everybody was like, couldn't wait to go buy tech stocks. Oh, my goodness.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
The exemption parade is coming. Howard Lutnick goes on television and says, oh, those tech exemptions, they're probably going to only last a month. When that happened, my phone was ringing off the hook from guys like, he's, Lutnick's going to get fired, right? He's off the rails. He's not our message. And then two hours later, Trump's like, nobody's off the hook.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
And so this has people with their heads just spinning, like pick a lane, bro, and go with it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1022: Stephanie Ruhle: Only Trump Is Happy
So I will say I don't have those conversations by design, right? If I'm speaking to sources, I want to learn everything I can. And me saying, well, didn't you learn your lesson is a waste of time. Something that I've actually heard in the last two days was something I hadn't thought about, but I'm hearing more and more guys talk about. is Trump's leaning toward authoritarianism.
The Dan Bongino Show
Things Have Changed, It's Trump's GOP Now (Ep. 2390)
And I'll tell you one other example. The day after Donald Trump had that crazy rally at Madison Square Garden, I rolled the dice and I called him on the phone. And he answered!
The Dan Bongino Show
Things Have Changed, It's Trump's GOP Now (Ep. 2390)
And I wasn't calling to chitchat. I said, Mr. President, this is Stephanie Ruhle. You made a lot of comments last night, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was not an on-the-record conversation. Long story, so I'm not going to get into what he said. But I called for one reason. I said, you just said a whole bunch of public things. I'd like to sit down for an interview with you.
The Dan Bongino Show
Things Have Changed, It's Trump's GOP Now (Ep. 2390)
We got five days before the election. So we didn't get into anything. There's nothing for me to report. I called him and said, I want an interview with you. Obviously he said no. But my point is, I was able to get to him by dialing his phone. Now that might be completely apeshit and you're like, I can't believe people know this guy's phone number.
The Dan Bongino Show
Things Have Changed, It's Trump's GOP Now (Ep. 2390)
But the reverse of that, if I were to want to connect with VP Harris or President Biden, there's 50 people Between me and that, I could write a note that maybe could get to somebody to get somebody, then through Pony Express and a pigeon, something might end up in a mailbox near them. And I called DJT to say, yo, can I have an interview?
The Dan Bongino Show
Things Have Changed, It's Trump's GOP Now (Ep. 2390)
He told me to go fuck myself, but I still was able to connect with him.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
But the USAID list. was perfect for his culture warriors because he picked program after program that he deems, and he didn't call it woke there, woke. He found programs that he thought had extreme titles in foreign countries and saying, we're cutting them. But even if they cut them legally or illegally, that's not enough money to balance the budget. Just like if Elon Musk fires every single
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
federal worker. That's three million workers, the same number of workers we had in the federal government in 1980. So when he says we ballooned the government, not when it comes to our federal workers, that's five percent of our budget. Again, chump change.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
But people will think. cut that program. It's so much money. It's not. It's chump change. And if he really wanted to go after the deficit, it's Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, which he's potentially coming for.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Let's check back in with our own Jacob Soboroff, who has been speaking with four fired federal workers in Washington, D.C. Jacob, I'm guessing tonight those workers had a different experiencing watching the president than they have in previous speeches.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Jacob, thank you so much. What an impressive group of people. And just juxtapose that with the way both the president and Elon Musk talk in such derogatory terms about just the general federal government workforce.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
with their expertise, could make more money in the private sector and have chosen not to.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
No competition.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Well, the last two hour speech given by a president about Social Security was Elon Musk four days ago to Joe Rogan when he called it a Ponzi scheme.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
He did tell a lie about it. Can you indulge me?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
This has to do with Doge. Doge's report card, Elon Musk would say, is Treasury rates going down. And Donald Trump tonight said rates went down today. They didn't go down because Doge is reducing the deficit. Rates went down today because of tariffs.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Because the stock market tanked. Right. Right. You know what people do? They rush to buy treasuries. And when you buy treasuries, the price goes up and the yield goes down. So, yes, Doge got their wish. The Doge report card, when 10-year treasury yields go down, we're winning. Uh-uh. Doge didn't reduce the deficit and the stock market lost. Fact check.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Are you not going to mention drill, baby, drill the line that you you are? You saddled us as a people with that line. Energy emergency that we're not in.