Simon Sinek
Appearances
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
That's such a layered question. So this is the most common question I get, by the way. I'm in middle management. And by the way, middle management is the most difficult job in the world because you have to be tactical and strategic. Because you're going down and up. You're going down and up. You have to do a job and also lead others doing a job.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You're in a position where you have had not a lot of practice leading as well. So you're learning on the job.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You can't reach the CEO. And the anger above you when they're frustrated with the people. And it's just, it's the worst place. And that's where most things die. Which is – I've gone to companies where the senior leadership is incredible. They're wonderful. People focus, blah, blah, blah. And then you go to the front lines and you're like, this is an awful place. Something happens in the middle.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
There's a class of people who are the angry smart people who are angry – and by the way, I think they hate people like me and Trevor too – Well, I'll speak for me. There's this angry smart person who are absolutely smarter than the people above them. But what they don't understand is that intelligence alone and book smarts is not the thing that puts you in a leadership position.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Understanding people, understanding politics, understand how to navigate, having EQ, these are necessary skills as well. And when they compare intelligence to intelligence, they'll always come up higher because
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Right. And in those cases, it's like the only common factor in all of their frustration with all the people they've worked for is them. So either everyone's an idiot.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Or maybe there's a skill set that those people who are advancing or mastering that they're ignoring. It's also the incentive structures. Most organizations tend to overemphasize performance results above leadership capacity. Doing the job and leading others who do the job are not the same thing. You can be a great salesperson. That doesn't make you a great sales manager.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But we tend to promote great salespeople into the position of sales manager where you lead people who do the job you used to do.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
different skill sets and so we don't promote very well and so that's another reason which these people may be better leaders but they're being overlooked because of what are the incentive structures inside the organization and then ultimately the incentive structures above them as well which is the senior leaders are incentivized not to make the company better at least in a public company they're incentivized to make the stock price better and so they're going to promote the people who do that
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And the focus shouldn't be on the boss. You can't control people you can't control. Like no number of anonymously sent books to your boss will change the way that they lead. Although I urge people to keep trying.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Keep trying. It's not going to work, but keep trying. My advice is always the same, which is worry about the things you can control. Be the leader you wish you had, right? And so how do you help the people for whom you're responsible? How do you help them rise? How do you help them build confidence? How do you help them build the skill sets?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
To the people to the left of you and to the right of you, even the person above you, that's a human being too. And we don't know the stresses that they're dealing with. And to have empathy for your boss who might have just yelled at you. to go into their office afterwards and say, are you okay? And truly become the leader you wish you had.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Because what I've learned is, especially if you would adopt an infinite mindset, which is if you let go of that things have to happen by a certain time, what will happen is that influence, that'll be a really well-led group. And generally their performance will go up because they're well-led. And senior management will either just leave them alone because the The numbers are good.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Or if they're curious, they'll say, what are you doing? And what will end up happening is one of those people will get promoted out. They'll take everything they've learned from that great leader. And that will infect another group. And before you know it, the tail wags the dog.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But oral history is a recounting where gossip is laced with judgment.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Let's bring it down a few thousand feet, right? So I think venting is important. So you leave work that day, you pick up the phone, you're like... And you just get it all out. You say all the stupid things and you just need to get it out. It's a venting, right? I think that's good. I think venting is very healthy. Okay. Okay. Venting is healthy. It's like any tension in any relationship.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Sometimes you just need to say it and then you're fine. Okay. So I think venting at work is very important.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Okay. But you can vent about work to other people.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I mean, or you can vent at work about your husband. I mean, like you vent about your kids.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And you have to have emotional professionalism. You know, you can't vent about your boss to somebody who works for you. Because your voice carries, carries influence. Okay. Right? And then you're going to start muddying the waters. But you can vent to somebody you're friends with at work and they know you're just venting and it doesn't affect their opinion about the person you're talking to.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And before you move on, why is venting good? Because I think it releases tension. Because I think if you keep the tension in, it builds, it builds, it builds. And you start forming a narrative about a person that they're dumb, they're stupid, and you start treating them that way.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So gossip, I think, is perpetuating narratives that may or may not be true.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Gossip can destroy a culture.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But it is gossip. I mean, it's not journalism. No, no, no, but wait, wait. Gossip is... That's helpful. But I think when you start spreading ideas about a person that are unresearched, unverified... or that you wouldn't say to that person, it can be very dangerous. I know a company that gossip is a firing offense because it's so destructive.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And when they think about gossip, they're talking about spreading rumors about a person, even if you think it's true.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Oh, this is an interesting idea.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
This is very interesting. I think we need another word here.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I don't know if that's the right word. I think we need another word here because I think you and I are talking about different things.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Because I agree with you and I wouldn't classify that stuff as gossip.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You can't prove that he's a bully. But by the way, gossip spreads much quicker and easier in virtual. Like when you're in an office and you interact with people and somebody's really nice on a daily basis or he says hi and somebody goes, that person is... like the worst person in the world to work with. And they're like, they're really nice.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But when we're separated from each other, what I've learned, what I've found is that false narratives about somebody swirl way quicker.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I love how we're all having a conversation about the office, like from our corporate jobs. Yeah, but we've all been in offices.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I know that's working in an office. That's going to an office and then leaving.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So we did this in our company because I was very public about it with the whole team, which is, I said, from now on, when somebody says something about someone's intentions or labels their character... It is everyone's responsibility in that meeting to interrupt that train of thought and raise the question. So, for example, that guy's so lazy, right? Oh, my God, he's so lazy.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
All that's needed is for anybody in the room to say could be lazy or could be stressed or has some stuff going on at home or we've put them in a job they don't know how to do it and so they're freaking out. Like to just add to a list of other possibilities that it could be that's getting the results that we're getting. Lazy is absolutely on the list.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And it's just giving people grace that we're not judging why they're performing the way they are or why they are the way they are. So I'll give you another example. I went for a walk with a friend of mine. She wanted some advice. And the conversation started like this. My boss is a horrible person. And I immediately interrupted and said, oh, my God, does she kick her dog and abuse her children?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
She said, no. I said, okay, so we don't know that she's a horrible person. We know that she's a horrible boss. Those are two very, very different things. And I think that's the problem. When we label someone's behavior or skill set versus labeling their character, and when we label their character, it's insidious and dangerous, and that's when it gets toxic.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Thank you. Where are you based? Here. Oh, you're based in LA? Yeah, yeah. I'm a New Yorker, but I'm here now.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And that's a good example of the swirl of gossip. That's what I mean. It can destroy someone's character, and this is where I think these things get dangerous. But you're 100% right, which is the office is a little petri dish, and everything that we learn at work is applicable. The best organizations are values-based, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
That's, yeah. So that's, go on.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
No, I... Make him come. My sister and her family moved here in the middle of 2019. My sister and I are very close, and we work together. And so to help her ease into living in L.A., I got a place here and started doing the bi-coastal thing. But, you know, COVID was kind of a magical gift.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So you are highlighting the very problem with modern capitalism, right? The capitalism that we have today is not Adam Smith capitalism. That's not the capitalism we have today. We have a bastardized form of capitalism influenced by an economist from the late 70s named Milton Friedman.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The Adam Smith version of capitalism was that the baker selfishly wants to make the best bread so that they can sell more bread than all the other bakers. And the butcher selfishly wants to make the best meat so he can sell more than all the other butchers. And the dairy farmer wants to make the best butter so that he can sell more. And what you get is the best sandwich.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
What we as the customer get is the best sandwich, right? So the selfish behavior of wanting to be better than their others benefits the customer, right? Yeah. And in the late 1970s, Milton Friedman wrote an op-ed in the New York Times where he basically proposed a new definition of business. He actually called it the responsibility of business.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The responsibility of business was to maximize profit within the bounds of the rules. Forget about ethics. Maximize profits within the bounds of the rules, right? Okay. Ethics are a higher standard than the rules. And you see it all the time. Companies did some horrifically unethical things. A patent to an essential drug, and they raised the price 1,500%. It's within the rules.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And they all say the same thing. We broke no laws. Yeah. Which is true, right? Horrible, but not illegal, right? And so in the late 70s and early 80s, a lot of the ruling classes, the CEO classes, heard this definition and went, Yeah, baby. Right? And they embraced Friedman's definition of capitalism or business, the responsibility to business, and they sort of doubled down on it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And you started – it gave rise to some entirely new behaviors and entirely new CEOs. This was just from this op-ed? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, it became a popular thing. Wow, Milton.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Well done, Milton. I don't like Milton Friedman, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
There we go. Can't speak about his character, but I don't like the work he put out there. And so you started to see these new behaviors arise. So, for example, the use of mass layoffs to balance the books.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
on an annualized basis, right? Did not exist in the United States prior to the 1980s. It didn't exist. Layoffs, mass layoffs were used for existential reasons. Like, oh my God, the company's going bankrupt. We have to cut 10% of our workforce. Now it's like, we're profitable, we're just not as profitable as we promised. You lose your job, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
That started in the early 1980s, and it started to gain popularity. And then it gave rise to an entirely new type of CEO like Jack Welch, who was the CEO of GE. And he was like the poster child of Miltonian economics, where you started to see the shareholder being prioritized over the customer and the employee. You started to see shorter-term time horizons.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You started to see an emphasis on growth. price of stock versus is this good for the company's long-term value. You started to see long-term greed being replaced by short-term greed. I don't have an issue with long-term greed, but short-term greed is a problem. And the use of human beings' livelihoods to maximize shareholder value.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And this was all because of this Miltonian-influenced Jack Welch poster child that is the standard of how businesses are led today. There's nothing wrong with capitalism. There's a huge problem with this version of capitalism. And you can see what's happening. There's a rise of populist movements across the West and the capitalist societies.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
My niece and nephew were kids that I used to see, you know, a couple times a month when I'd drive up to the suburbs and spend a few hours at their house. And then when we went into lockdown, we were having family dinner every single night.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I don't care if you're on the left and right, Bernie or Trump, it doesn't matter. And they're complaining about the same thing, which is the very small percentage of the elite are getting richer. And everybody else is being left behind. And when you have a huge delta between those who have and those who don't, what you get is revolution.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The middle class is drying up and people are not investing in the stock market anymore. The whole stock market exists so that the average working American can share in the wealth of a nation. That's why we have a stock market. That's what Alexander Hamilton imagined, right? And the... But that's not what we have anymore. It's become a game for a few so they can command more wealth.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And just to put one final sort of cap on it, If you go back to the anthropology of leadership, like if we go back, you know, 50,000 years, whatever you want to do, where we lived in tribes that were never bigger than about 150, 200 people, human beings evolved into naturally hierarchical animals.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
We're constantly assessing and judging who's alpha, depending on whatever the standards are for that group. Who's alpha? And we treat our alphas differently, right? You know this. As soon as you started getting some fame, you're better looking and all your jokes are funnier, right? If you leave your jacket in another room, somebody goes and gets your jacket for you.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
If you're junior and you leave a jacket in the other room, you get your own jacket, right? That's just how it works. And so what we did was we assessed our alphas and we stepped back and we allowed our alphas to get first choice of meat and first choice of mate. Except the group is not stupid. We don't give first choice of meat and first choice of mate to our alphas for nothing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
There's a deep-seated social contract that when danger threatens the tribe, we expect the person who's actually stronger, actually smarter, actually better fed to confront the danger to protect the tribe. That's why we give you all the perks. You don't get the perks for free. They come at a cost. And so that's the deep-seated social contract. We have no problem with CEOs making more money than us.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yeah, yeah. I got very, very close with those kids. And I love living in L.A. for them. And when they're not here, I'm very bored. You do a lot of work.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Where it broke the contract and why you get the anger is not the disparity. It's when we started to see the people who are in alpha positions, when danger threatened the tribe, the economy took a little shake, whatever it is, that they would sooner sacrifice the people to protect their own interests rather than sacrifice their interests for the short term to protect the people.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And that's why we're getting the populist reaction. That's what it is. It's the people saying, you have violated your... Right. And so we're coming for you with pitchforks.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So the reaction isn't throw out capitalism and democracy. The answer is throw out this form of capitalism. Go back.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The ones who don't agree with me don't call me. Have you ever changed the CEO's mind? The problem is not their mind. The problem is their incentive structure. Like I remember I was working with a CEO and gave him some counsel on sort of how to organize things better. And he was really honest. He's like, I totally agree with everything you're telling me. And your insights are spot on.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And I completely agree. And I'm going to implement none of it. Because if I do it your way, I won't get my bonus. He was just very blunt with me. Damn. And so, but there are good leaders who are taking risks to fight the machine. There's also a younger generation of leaders that are coming up. The newer companies, the newer CEOs are raising these questions.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And you start to hear things like triple bottom line and you start to hear these things. But you're 100% right. You know, the number of, look, the fact that I've forgotten all the businesses that come together. I've forgotten what they're called. But a few years ago, they put out a statement saying purpose really matters in business.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But when I started, if you talk about purpose at work, you were just a weird-ass hippie. And every company has a purpose statement on their website, even if they don't follow it, even if it's just because they have to. But that's at least progress.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Is that all this is for your transaction?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I think, and I'm actually, it's funny you say that. People are very surprised by how close my sister and I are. They say, you know, what's it like working with your sister? Is that okay? As if it's some sort of disaster.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And for them, I think they feel it would be. And I don't want to work with anybody else but my sister. And I talk a thousand times a day and we bounce between work and personal stuff. Yeah. And to answer your question, I don't know if there's a formula. I think one of the things that made us close as we grew up living all over the world. Ah, so you were your only contact.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
How do you define the value and the purpose? So we're conflating a bunch of things here, right? I don't think any of that's purpose either. That stuff is superficial and it's trappings. And none of that stuff makes for quote unquote culture either. Yeah. So just go back a few years.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So there was a time not that long ago where you're right, where you went to work simply to make the money to pay for your stuff. And you were friends with your neighbors and you had a sense of tribe with your neighbors. And you got some sort of belonging or community or moral guidance from church. And you had bowling on Saturdays and you had the tournaments on Thursday nights.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And we had these things.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Sunday dinners and all these traditions and institutions. The bowling clubs, the bowling leagues went away. Church attendance is down. We're not really friends with our neighbors. But we still have desire for all these things. And so a lot of pressure was put on work to give me these things that I used to get outside of work. So it's not all work trying to force these things on you.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So we were the only common friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Some of it was the changing world around us. And we are demanding of our offices to give it to us because we're not getting it anywhere else.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And that's totally fine.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And that's totally fine, by the way. Yeah. And that's totally fine. But when I talk about purpose at work, right, I'm not talking about something spiritual or anything like that. When we talk about vision, whether it's vision – the best companies sound like – they sound like social movements. Yeah. Which is scary to me because I don't... It's cultish.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And by the way, but hold on. But you're conflating so... There's a swirl of stuff going on here. I think Ben clarifies the meaning. So you're right. It is cultish.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And... That's not necessarily a bad thing because it means I believe there's a shared set of values. I feel like I belong. I feel like I found my tribe, right? The company actually does obey its values and would sacrifice its short-term money to uphold its values. Those are good companies. And when you say, oh, they'll just fire you, the bad companies will. Trust me. I'm with you on the tech.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
They say all the right things. They put the values on the wall, but it's all a punchline and they don't use them to make decisions. So you're 100 percent right there. But I'll take you to see some companies where they are treated right. They don't get fired simply because the company is struggling. And they are hired slowly because they try and choose people who believe in the same values.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Who are cultural contributors rather than cultural fits, right? Which is I like it here. I want to give to the people to the left and right of me because they give to me. And they have a psychological safety when they come to work. They feel like someone's got their back. I guess what I object to… And those are beautiful things.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
That's what I think about. If I offered you more money to go have the exact same job with a different person, Would you take it immediately?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
How old are your kids?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But you're not following your own rules.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But sometimes it does.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I don't. I hear you. Yeah. I just appreciate the irony of the thing you're railing against is the thing that you fully embraced, which is if I offered you more, you said it's just a place to make money.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
To serve my family and I would get my community somewhere else. But if I offered you more money to work for somebody else.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But if I gave you more money to go somewhere else, you wouldn't want to. You'd want to stay here because you quote unquote like it here. And you feel on some occasions that you actually are contributing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So there's a, if you care about this stuff.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Like the messages you're spreading and especially on the daily show, you know, the stuff that you're putting out there in some way, shape or form was informing people and helping people understand the world and make sense of the world. That was the thing you were contributing to and it gave the work meaning. You didn't just come to work and be like, oh, I've got to work and write again.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You're like, no, this is – I'm enjoying this because I feel like I'm advancing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So I'm bilingual. I speak English and American.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So, you know, like kids who have French parents, you know, they'll like just start speaking French to their parents. They go between English, French, English, French. Well, I do that. Like when I talk to my parents or when I talk to my friends in England, I have an English accent. I use English vocabulary. When I talk to my American friends, I speak American. So I bounce between the two.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So, by the way, I think you and I agree more than not, which is just my attitude is like... The world is the way it is. And if we're going to go to work, then work should at least feel like I'm contributing. And I want to go home at the end of the day, like, you know, if you work hard for something you believe in, it's passion. If you work hard for something you don't believe in, it's stress.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And I would rather people, even if they work really hard, to be like, you know what? The sacrifice was worth it because I feel like my work has some value in the world. It meant something. When it's done right, it's gorgeous. But the problem is, and you said it, superficially people say the same words, talk about the same values. The difference is they're not actually living them or doing them.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
To go to your point about the why, a why is fundamentally an origin story. That's all it is. And a why does not change. You have one why your whole life. And that's it. Because you are the sum total of how you were raised. You have won why your whole life? You've won why your whole life.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Now I'm going to be fighting with you before we go. Wait, what? Yes. Tell me more. Oh, and now we're out of time. You have one why. You have one why your entire life, because you are the product of how you were raised. Okay. That's, I mean, you're not gonna, like, you are who you are. Okay. And there's nothing that can happen in your life that will make you not who you are.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
My sister is 100% American, can't even fake an English accent. That's so interesting. They found these feral kids in India. And they found that there's a critical age for language. If they brought their kids back into society between the ages of 8 to 10, they could learn syntax and language and they could be fully integrated back into society. But if it was later than that...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Now, you can pretend you're someone different. We would call you inauthentic. And when I uncover a why, literally all I'm doing is going backwards, discover the patterns of what made you who you are. And then I'm trying to put words on them. And it's the same for a company. Walt Disney, when it does things right, is fundamentally the origin story of Walt Disney's vision of the world.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
This escape from the stressful lives that we have to go into this magical place and we can leave reality for a moment. That's literally what it says in the plaque outside Disneyland, you know? And that's all, if you look at the beginnings of things. We can do a little, let's have a little fun. I've been having fun, just for the record.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I've only been having fun. Tell me something specific that you've worked on in your entire career. It does not have to have been commercially successful.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But something specific that you worked on in your career that you loved being a part of. And if every project was like this one thing, you'd be the happiest person alive. Something specific.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Okay. Tell me of all of the amazing things you've done in this remarkable career of yours, what was it about the White House Correspondents' Dinner that stands out that you want to bring it up now?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So you've had those experiences in other jobs. When you were at The Daily Show, you could fill the writer's room with whatever you wanted. I mean, you had a boss, but kind of.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So if everything in your life was like that, game on. Game on. Okay. Tell me an early specific happy childhood memory, something I can relive with you. An early, specific… Happy childhood memory.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The kids could only do like when you see like chimps learning to speak. It's like word association. Banana hungry. You know, they couldn't learn syntax. And so I think it also applies to accents. My sister was younger when we came to America, fully American, where I was sort of on that cusp. And so I had an English accent living here for years before I kind of lost it. But I'm still bilingual.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Forties two. Okay. No, no, I'm being serious though. When you're, you know, a child, like under, you know, in school, like an early childhood memory.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Because I think your memories at different ages are very... Yeah, definitely early specific childhood memories.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
This is something, a specific time, not just a thing you did regularly? No, no, no. This is one specific one.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And of all the amazing things you had happen in this magical childhood that you've talked about, what specifically was it about this one thing that stands out so much that you want to talk about it now?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So now what I'm doing is I'm looking for the connection between those things and saying, okay, that's the common factor, right? You're the first person I've ever talked to ever, and I've done hundreds of these, who said, I'm telling you the same story. I can hear that they're the same story, but...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But you're the first person who can hear it, who's able to... Oh, yeah, I'm always cognizant of these things. So just to pay that compliment that you're living outside your own head. But this is the thing, which is where you find great joy is when you can bring the right people together to do something that matters and have a...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
a ton of fun doing it yes okay and that's sort of your purpose in life which is to bring people together to do something bigger than themselves and have a good time doing it right and if everything you do in your life you can is that is that is that yeah the merry-go-round we go to call it merry-go-round yeah and everything in your life is like that roundabout you that is what a game on is yeah and so the opportunity for you
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
is to remind yourself of that, right? So whether you get a Lego merry-go-round or a picture of a merry-go-round or just that merry-go-round. Oh, this is, I like sentimental things. The merry-go-round is, it's your talisman. It's the thing that reminds you of why you get out of bed today. All you want to do in life is work tirelessly to create the merry-go-round, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And the thing is, is because you have vision, we're going to make this thing fly. Yeah. Okay, so... People go, huh? And you go, you, you, you, and you. Yeah. Okay? And now they're all coming in and you're having a blast. And whether it succeeds or fails, it didn't fly. It did not fly. It did not fly. It did not. It did not fly. So it actually failed, if we're really honest with ourselves.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But it didn't matter because it was the joy of the together and the fun, even with the vision, that made it worth it. It was the exact same thing for the correspondence dinner. You'd never said at any point – and I freaking nailed it. No, that's not the point. Right? The point wasn't the result. No. The point was the people coming together.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Everybody- Has. Yes. And it doesn't have to be a happily childhood memory. So I did this with somebody a few years ago. And I said, tell me an early childhood memory. And they said, I had a horrible childhood. Yes. I said, well, tell me any memory. And they said, I had a very, very alcoholic, abusive father. And he would go on these drunken rampages. And I remember hiding in the closet.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
and I wrapped my sister underneath me to protect her from my father. And, you know, we're both crying as she's telling this story. She's a protector. She wakes up every day to protect those who can't protect themselves. I can bring myself to tears talking about it, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And she was struck by this pattern that she's at her natural best and she finds peace when she's able to offer protection to others from whatever it is. And so these patterns exist for everyone. They're not the same as yours. And whenever somebody hears that pattern, the result is goosebumps, some sort of emotional response.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
We're confusing struggle and joy. Yeah. So I went to Kenya this year and we went into the Mara and, you know, to the poor neighborhoods and we got to meet some remarkable, remarkable human beings. And I started to... realize that we from the West come in. I mean, it's like your story. Yeah. You know, it's like, we have it so good. Yeah. You have nothing. You live in a mud hut.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
How can you be happy? You know, I'll show you happiness. Come look at my house with all my stuff. Right? And all they do is smile. And you look at the children and say, they have nothing, they have no toys, and they've got a tire and a stick, and they're laughing. And there's data on this, that children that have more toys actually don't have as good imaginations.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So she knows four languages.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yes, he's got a tire and a stick, and he's got an active imagination. And those kids, those boys and girls, all they do is smile and play. And I met these remarkable people who absolutely their life is difficult. And the walking four hours to sell. Right, yeah, yeah. It is absolutely a life of hardship. But they are happy. And they have joy in life. And they look after each other.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And it's everything you said. When somebody needs a house, we help them build a house. And the sense of community they have. And it made me realize that we in the West are addicted to money. And we look at other people who don't have our addiction and we feel sorry for them because they don't have our high. Like it's a heroin addict feeling sorry for all the people who don't have a heroin high.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And they're looking at us going, you're a heroin addict. Yeah. But it feels so good to be on heroin, right? And that's us in the West. We're all so intoxicated with what the money feels like. We've forgotten about community. We've forgotten about sacrifice. We've forgotten about giving. We've forgotten about helping. We've forgotten about imagination. And I went in thinking, what can I give?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And I came out saying, what must I learn? I love that.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yes, yes. And the answer is service. Oh, damn. I have a friend who was struggling. She knows what I do, and she came to me and said, I need your help. I said, okay. So we got together every Wednesday for 90 minutes, and she told me what she was going through, and her marriage was falling apart, and her career wasn't going the right way, and her kids were driving her crazy.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
She wasn't having a good time. And every Wednesday, I'd give her some counsel and some advice, and she'd feel great. And that'd last for about two days. And then she'd go back, and then she'd come back next Wednesday, and she'd feel great. And you see this pattern. This went on for months. And I finally sort of remembered my own work. And I remembered, you know, sort of my own work in service.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And, like, I looked into Alcoholics Anonymous. You know, the 12-step program, the first step is admitting you have a problem. And if you master 11 steps... but not the 12th, you're going to succumb to the disease. But if you master the 12th, you're more likely to beat the disease. The 12th step is to help another alcoholic.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
It's service. That's the 12th step. So I said to her, I did a little social experiment on us. I said, every week we get together and I help you. And I'm realizing I need help too. I trust you more than anybody. You're my best friend. I love you. And I need coaching too. And I was being deadly serious. It wasn't a game. And can we split our time? 45 for me, 45 for you. She said, absolutely.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So the next week we got together and we spent 90 minutes talking about me. And she gave me advice and she gave me counsel. And the next week we got together and just by accident, it's not like we planned it this way, we spent 90 minutes talking about me. Within about two months, her life was back on track and she was golden.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So what I recommend to people who are struggling with whatever it is, I can't find love, I can't find happiness, I can't find a job, I can't find whatever it is I'm looking for. Find someone who's struggling with the same thing and help them find the thing they're looking for. And by the way, it reinforces everything that we've been talking about this whole time, which is community is the thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But when we're selfishly minded, we don't build community. Yeah. And if you look at all of those places that we have all visited that we love that have community, everything is about service. That's all it is. Well, I don't have the time. I don't have the energy. That's where the sacrifice comes from. We find a way to find the energy to help you build your house even though I got my own struggles.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And the joy of giving time and energy, non-redeemable commodities, unlike money. You make more money.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
uh to someone to see the benefit that they derive has an impact on human beings that is hard to calculate a fulfillment that you get that is only can only be described as joy and the reason is because that is the biology of how we're designed that is mother nature's desperate attempt to get the species to survive and we will only survive if we help each other that's why it feels so good
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And that's what purpose is. Purpose for me, the deepest meaning of purpose for me is it's the opportunity to serve those who serve others.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
People describe you the same way. You know that.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I don't think that's fair. No, he's so chaotic. I don't think I'm pure chaos. I mean... The thing that we enjoy about each other when we talk is we both enjoy chaos and finding the patterns in chaos. Yes, exactly. And I think that's what creativity is. I think creativity is the ability to find order in chaos. And I love chaos because chaos is where all the magic happens.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Otherwise, everything's linear.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So, I mean, the simple answer is yes. I am absolutely, absolutely fascinated by the world order. This is not something we're going to solve in a podcast.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
We will. We've got like 50 something odd minutes. Perfect. Most world orders I can solve in 30. So I just, I find this, the world order just absolutely fascinating. And trying to understand how we got here as well, where we went from the Cold War, or Cold War 1.0, where it was very neat. It was very neatly organized. You had democracy and capitalists on one side and communists on the other side.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And it was very clearly delineated that if you were a communist, we weren't your friends, and that was it. All the communists were on one team, and all the democracies and capitalists or those who aspired to be were on the other team. Play. It's very, very simple. And both were reasonably rational and played by very similar rules. Well, that doesn't exist anymore.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And we now have ideologies mixed together. Our adversaries are also our trading partners. It's a complete mess and continues to get messier. And I'm absolutely fascinated by how our leaders don't really understand – the world that we're operating in and how we got here. And yet they're attempting to make decisions to manage it or lead it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So this is great because... All of your listeners are tuned in for this.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I think your assessment is pretty spot on. Damn, we're in trouble. But like when I work with government or I work with military, like I'm constantly amazed at how much they know and simultaneously amazed at how little they know. And that's true for government and military. Those things live in this strange paradox.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And it's constantly amazing to me how good they are and how bad they are simultaneously. There are multiple reasons for that. One is – and it's the same in the corporate world, which is how we promote – There are tactical people and there are strategic people. Nobody's purely one or the other. You know, tactical people sort of know how to get things done. They're in the weeds.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
They can see the details. And the strategic people, a little more blue sky, can see sort of far off horizons. You know, the best strategic people aren't the best at tactics and the best tactical people aren't the good at strategy.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
What I found is fascinating, especially when you get to the higher echelons of government or military, which is the really great strategic thinkers know that they are bad at tactical thinking and surround themselves with good tactical thinkers. Okay. Mm-hmm. The really great tactical thinkers who find themselves in high-level positions think they're great at strategy.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And they don't even understand it. Think of it like marketing. Marketing is a little more ethereal. It's a little more blue sky-ish. Finance, a little more detailed, a little more in the weeds, right? Marketers know that they're bad at finance. Finance people think they're good marketers. Okay.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Where marketing people are like, you should probably get somebody in finance to look at that. I don't understand. Right? And so what ends up happening is the tactical people, if they get promoted into strategic jobs, they think they understand it. But they don't. And it's not that they don't understand. It's that their view is just too shallow. They're operating only with what they can see.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And they're not very good at making decisions based on what they can't see or very long term. They don't understand, like, if you pull lever A... then these things might happen. They just like, pull lever A, get this. And you're like, yes, and this will be the response to that. There's not that way of thinking. And I think strategy in general is one of those very misunderstood things.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
It's hard, it's amorphous, and it's sort of in the clouds. But you're 100% right. I think that would be my assessment, too. It's amazing that the decisions are being made by people who don't fully understand the nuance.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And simultaneously, there are people there whose minds will blow you away how much they understand and how smart they are and how they understand nuance better than... Actually, no, no, I appreciate that. It's the duality that's so confusing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I actually do. Because I think of myself as an idiot. And I mean this honestly.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Which means I'm an idiot.