Simon Sinek
Appearances
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Now, where it gets dangerous is when we, and this breaks psychological safety, is when leaders keep things for themselves, right? Like, listen, I'm not going to give you your bonus, but you should see mine, right?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And so we see that one of the reasons companies break trust with employees, it's actually really interesting if you're into this kind of stuff, if you're a nerd like me, there's actually an anthropological theory constant, there's an anthropological reason we have leaders. This is why, quote unquote, leaderless movements or leaderless organizations don't work.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
which actually violates our anthropology. So if we go back many thousands of years, early Homo sapien, so we've been farming only for about 10,000 to 12,000 years. That's it. But prior to that, we lived in populations that were rarely bigger than about 150,000. This is where Dunbar's number come from if you're into that kind of stuff. Anyway, we lived in these populations about 150, 200 people.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And, you know, we all have to kind of work together and help each other out because it's dangerous, right? And these are austere times. So the hunter-gatherers go out and they get food. And we're all pretty hungry. When you're living with 150, 200 people and you bring food back to the tribe, who eats first?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
If you're the guy who's built like a football player, you can shove your way to the front of the line. But if you're the quote unquote artist of the family, you're going to get an elbow in the face. Now, this is a bad system of cooperation because if you punched me in the face this afternoon, the odds are pretty high I'm not going to wake you and alert you to danger tonight.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And so we evolved into hierarchical animals. We're constantly assessing and judging each other who's higher in whatever the pecking order is. And every different group and every different tribe has different standards. And in companies, we have a formal pecking order. There's a leadership, there's a structure, there's a hierarchy. And if you're higher in the hierarchy,
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
you get special treatment, right? So in the tribes, go back way when, if we assess that you were the alpha in the tribe, we stepped back and allowed you to eat first. So leaders, alphas got first choice of meat and first choice of mate. And I may not get to eat first, but I definitely get food and I don't get an elbow in the face. Good system. And that system is alive and well today.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Like we don't have a single problem that somebody higher in the system makes a higher salary than me. I may think they're an idiot, but no one is morally offended that somebody more senior makes a higher salary, gets a better parking space or a corner office. It offends no one. However, the group is not stupid. We don't give first choice of meat and first choice of mate.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
We don't give all these perks to our alphas, to our leaders for free. There's a deep-seated social contract that when danger threatens the tribe, the people who are actually better fed, the people who are actually smarter, actually stronger, there's an expectation that they are going to be the ones that will rush towards the danger to protect the rest of us.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
That's why we gave first choice of mate, because we want to keep your genes in the gene pool in case you die. We're not stupid. And this is where things get haywire in the modern world, right? We don't have a problem that somebody more senior makes a lot more money than me. That's fine. I got no problem with that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
The problem is that when danger threatens the tribe, when we have a bad economy or a bad quarter or something happens, and then we use mass layoffs so that the leaders can protect their bonuses. That's when we have problems of trust. What we want to see is that our leaders will make a short-term sacrifice to protect our interests, not sacrifice our lives to protect their short-term interests.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And it literally goes against our very anthropology, our very nature as human beings. That's where you have huge, huge trust issues inside organizations.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So, I mean, we have to be very careful, right? And you're 100% right. And what starts to happen is we start to conflate all these different things that are happening, which is you're not prioritizing me. You're violating my boundaries. I want to work from home. And what the leaders are saying is, look, here are the rules of the tribe.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
The rules of the tribe are we want you to work five days a week. If you don't like the rules of our tribe, you will do much better at a different tribe. Right? But if you're okay with the rules of our tribe, welcome and we will take care of you and you will take care of us. And this is why the best organizations are values-based organizations.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Basically values-based organizations say is if you share our values, then we will make a deal and look out for each other. If you violate our values and you prove yourself to be uncoachable, then we will politely ask you to go work at another company. And as we as employees say, hey, leaders, values are not just things we write on the walls. Values are things that we expect you to uphold as well.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And if you violate the values, then I have the right to leave. And I also have the right to raise my hand and ask what's going on. We assume good intent always. We assume good intent. And so we want to work in values-based organizations where the leaders and the people, because those are the rules of the tribe. Right.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So in this modern day and age, what we very often see, unfortunately, is money prioritized over people. And you can look at, I mean, insurance is the big topic right now, you know, after the assassination of the CEO of United Healthcare. And you and I live in Los Angeles.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And insurance is a thing, right? This is what we're all talking about now.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So you're going to start seeing these questions, right? So when a company announces record profits... and then refuses to pay out on a policy, we start raising our hand and saying, hold on, what's the point of having insurance? And if they start prioritizing their shareholders, over their customers, then we get to raise our hand and say, hold on, what's going on?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And it's okay for a company to say, hey, shareholders, we made no profit this month because we had to take care of Los Angeles, but our finances are strong and this is an anomaly, right? It doesn't make sense how you should have maximum profit when we have a huge tragedy like this. So you're going to start seeing these stories play out
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
know and we'll see whether the insurance companies can prove themselves to be trustworthy or untrustworthy are they prioritizing their short-term interests with our well-being or they're prioritizing our well-being to protect their short-term interests we'll soon find out great leaders understand this and we've seen great leaders one of my favorite great leaders bob chapman ceo barry waymiller during the 2008 recession where companies like his were laying off people all over the place
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Bob Chapman made a public announcement to his company that says no one will get laid off. However, we're going to ask people to take four weeks of unpaid leave. He said, better we should all suffer a little than anyone should have to suffer a lot.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And so you start to see, it doesn't mean you can't try and save money, but doing it at the sacrifice of someone's livelihood is a last resort, not a first choice.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
We have to be very careful, which is this form of capitalism we have right now is not the capitalism that made America great. This is not the capitalism that Adam Smith wrote about. This is not the capitalism that Thomas Jefferson was enthralled with.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
This form of capitalism is relatively recent, and it's born out of the philosophies of an economist named Milton Friedman, and he theorized capitalism. that the responsibility of business is to maximize profit within the bounds of the rules. In other words, if you follow the law, maximize profit. What about ethics? That's a very low standard.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
We see CEOs dragged in front of Congress all the time for doing horrible things, right? Some drug company raises the price of an essential drug that they have the patent on 1,000%. And they always say the same thing. We broke no laws. No, you didn't. but you're an ass, right? Like we all know that, it's obvious. The ethical standard is pretty low, right?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And so this form of capitalism, this definition of the responsibility of business was embraced in the 1980s and 90s. And that's where you started to see the rise of things like mass layoffs. Do you know that mass layoffs on an annualized basis didn't exist in the United States prior to the 1980s? It was existential only.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Like the company's going out of business, we got a layoff, you know, 20% of the workforce. Now it's like, We missed our profits. We're profitable, just not as much as we wanted to, so you get to lose your job. That didn't exist. The concept of shareholder supremacy and short-termism, it's all relatively recent. And so we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Capitalism we like, this version of capitalism we don't like. And I think you're right, which is we talk about the future of work. I think the great irony is the future of work is actually to go back to a time before Milton Friedman. where capitalism was devoted to building great companies and taking care of customers. And if you did that, the shareholder would benefit.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Shareholder came third, not first.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
No, this is very intimidating, but let's get into it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
That's a good scenario. So some people have a high risk tolerance in the company. They're probably a minority. And most people have a lower risk tolerance. In other words, fear. And when a company or CEO announces a bold new initiative, what most people hear is, how is this going to affect me? Am I at risk? And the reason we get pushback or sabotage
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
for quote unquote bold new initiatives, it's not because people disagree, it's because they're afraid, right? People fear sudden change. And so bold initiatives have to be built, not announced. You don't want to make it like a, you know, where it's like a, wait for it, wait for it, ta-da! No, that's a very bad way to do bold initiatives. What you want to do is tell a story over a period of time.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Like, look how well we're doing here. This is very exciting. I think we're good at this. And you get to the point where everybody's starting to think, we could probably push this a little harder. And the day you announce it, everybody's like, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, totally. We've been kind of going down this road.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And so it might be bold relative to a few months ago, but it's not bold relative to yesterday. And I think that's really important. Because remember, the bold new initiative was born slowly. It wasn't like a bunch of executives sat in a room the day before and said, you know what we should do? Announce it tomorrow.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
What happened was it was months and somebody made an offhand comment and somebody goes, you know, I was thinking about what you said last night. That's really interesting. I wonder if we could dot, dot, dot. In other words, it took time to get to the bold initiative and then we just announce it to everybody. So you've got to bring people on the journey.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
That's how you do follow through for bold new initiatives.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Great news for the company. And the problem is when there's uncertainty, there's fear. And when there's fear and there's resistance, now you're accused of not being a team player. Now you're accused of not caring about the company. Now you're accused of being a bad employee. And it's none of those things. It's just fear. Fear and uncertainty is all it is.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And this is why a lot of change management is nonsense. You come in and do a deck about how important this change is. It's not bringing people along on the journey and letting them come to that conclusion themselves. It's announcing to people and then pretending that it won't be so bad. Being honest and being realistic, but bringing people on the journey are super, super important.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Let's define what work-life balance means, right? It doesn't mean I work a lot of hours and now I need to go do a bunch of yoga. Like the thing that makes me laugh all the time when companies say, you know, we work hard and play hard. I mean, both of those sound very unhealthy. Work smart, play always is what I say.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And so when we treat it like a scale and like we have to take deposits and credits on both sides, it doesn't really work. And it's not based on how hard you work. Working hard for something you don't believe in is called stress. Working hard for something you love is called passion. In both cases, you're working hard. Only in one of those does it feel worth it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Now, there's a difference between recharging your batteries and protecting your health. Like if you've been burning the candle on both ends, yes, you need a vacation. And a vacation means turning off your email, turning off your cell phone, right? Because if you're on email on vacation, you're just telecommuting from a beach. That's not a vacation.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And so absolutely, when we talk about the balance, which is like recharge your batteries. But for me, work-life balance is I feel safe at home. I feel like psychologically safe at home and I feel psychologically safe at work. And so my life feels in balance. I feel like the sacrifices I make on both sides are worth it. And it's never perfect.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
There's always going to be some sort of sacrifice somewhere. You can't please everybody all the time. But you're able to manage it and you feel supported at home and you feel supported at work. You feel you're in balance when you can say to your loved ones at home, hey, family. I'm going to take a business trip. I love you all, but I got to do this.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
I know I'm going to miss Friday night sushi night, but I love you all and I got to do this. And then at work, you say, hey, listen, my kid is super sick at home. I'm going to work from home today. This is the balancing. And at home, they go, go ahead, mom, dad, have a great business trip. Where at work, they go, totally understand. Go ahead and work from home today.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And you feel supported from the other. I think that's what balance is.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
It's not work hard player. Sometimes it gets out of balance. You know, so for example, if somebody works on a Saturday, right? All a leader has to do is say, hey, thank you so much for working on Saturday. Why don't you take a day of the week off so I can give you back that day from your weekend? Back in balance.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Okay. Number one, curiosity, right? I think very often in these circumstances, we leap to judgment. And it's hard because we're all judgmental bastards, right? Every single one of us, even the ones who say I'm not judgmental, I judge them. So we're all a little judgy and we have to work hard. It's a skill, just takes practice to try hard to replace the judgment with curiosity.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Thanks for having me.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So first we have to understand what belonging means to them. When somebody says, I don't feel like I belong here, what they're saying is, I don't feel psychologically safe here. Or they're saying, I'm not sure I share the values. Or they're saying, I don't feel seen or heard here. You know, all I know is something is not right.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And the problem is when we don't feel like something fits, even we, the ones who don't feel like we belong, sometimes we don't know what the reason is. So we lash out and we're judgy and we're accusatory that you did this and you, but really I'm just uncomfortable and I don't really know why myself. And so we want curiosity and communication on both sides.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So if somebody doesn't feel like they belong, what I want them to do is raise their hands and say, Can I have an uncomfortable conversation with you? I've been dealing with this for a little bit. I thought it was me. I thought I had a bad night's sleep, but it's been going on for a while. And can I just talk it out with you? Which is, I don't know if I belong here.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
I'm struggling for these reasons. And this is the story I'm telling myself. And I'm afraid of this story because I don't know if it's true or not, but I'm going off of it. The person they're talking to from work doesn't correct them. They're trying to understand that. They're trying to see where they can help. They're trying to see what parts are true and what parts are not true.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
But the difficult part is sometimes, especially if you're dealing in a small business, an entrepreneurial venture, and the person you're talking to is the owner, it's so easy to get super defensive. And in almost all of these circumstances, what we see is a breakdown in communication.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And what ends up happening, the reason it gets escalated is because somebody handles the communication badly or somebody responds to the communication badly. And it's kind of like a fight with a loved one, right? Like the number of fights that I had with my girlfriend that went like this. Well, you started it. No, you started it. Well, here's the thing that you did that started it, okay?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And I remember I was having a fight with my girlfriend and I literally interrupted this fight as we were trying to tell each other who started this fight that we were both in. And I said, look, Here's what I know for a fact. One of us definitely started this. And I know we have a different opinion as to who, right? One of us definitely started this. But here's the other thing I know.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
In the mid-1980s, a philosopher and theologian by the name of Dr. James Karst defined these two types of games, finite games and infinite games. A finite game is defined as known players, fixed rules, and an agreed upon objective. Football, baseball. If there's a winner, necessarily there has to be a loser or losers. But more importantly, there's always a beginning, a middle, and an end.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
The other person definitely poured gasoline on it, right? So all I know is we are where we are because we contributed to where we are. So let's just start there. And you can say that at work too. You'd be like, I think that I have handled this badly. Can I have a do-over? And again, that goes right back to the beginning of our conversation of accountability.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
My wheelie bag, my words, my reaction, my defensiveness, my judgment before my curiosity made this worse. I recognize that. I am sorry. Can we start again? But I think belonging is a tricky one because sometimes it's really actually a belonging problem. And sometimes it's just a I'm not sure problem. And I'm looking to grasp to what it might be. And I sometimes latch on to belonging.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
But it might just be that I don't feel seen or heard. Or it might be that I just don't feel valued. It's one that requires unpacking.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Remember, it is human beings in a relationship with human beings. Right? Most people are good. There are a few bastards in the world, but most people are good, right? But what most people lack are human skills, right? Like cats don't have to work very hard to be cats. They're naturally good at being cats, right? Human beings, weirdly enough, are not born being good at human.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
We actually have to study and learn things like listening, how to have difficult conversations, how to resolve conflict, right? Like how to have an effective confrontation. We are not born with these skills. We have to practice and learn these skills in order to have better relationships. It takes a lot of work to be a good human being.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Well, I think it goes back to what we were saying before, right? Which is, you know, I think most people finish at the superficial, which is follow through and say the thing you're going to do. I mean, I fail to follow through on things all the time. And sometimes I'm embarrassed and ashamed. And so I hide it or I'm not upfront or I sort of hedge it and be like, well, I kind of did it, you know?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And what I've learned about follow through is that really it's about managing expectations. And it's okay to say no. It's okay to miss a deadline. It's okay to fail. As long as you give ample notice, and this is the important part, ask for help. And I think the missing part, which is so difficult and so vulnerable for a lot of people, which is I'm struggling here.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And sometimes we realize I don't have a process. Sometimes we realize I'm the wrong person. Sometimes we realize I said yes when I should have said no. Sometimes we realize I'm just stressed. I'm just overworked and I can't do it. Sometimes we realize I got stuff going on at home and I'm so distracted. Sometimes I got a bad night's sleep. There's so many reasons why we don't follow through.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
That what I have learned is that the better the communication and the more comfortable we get asking for help, the irony is you'll get all the credit for all the follow through.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Infinite games are different. Infinite games, there are known and unknown players. So you don't necessarily know who all the players are, and new players can join the game at any time. The rules are changeable, which means every player can play however they want. And the objective is to perpetuate the game, to stay in the game as long as possible.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So you're 100% right, which is the definition of a leader is the awesome responsibility. A leader accepts the awesome responsibility to see those around us rise, right? Now, a position of leadership and being a leader are not the same thing.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
You can have a position of leadership, which gives you rank and authority, but it doesn't mean we will follow you and it definitely doesn't mean we'll trust you. You and I both know many people who don't have a position of leadership, but they've made the choice to look after the person to the left of them and make the choice to look after the person to the right of them.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And we trust them and follow them anywhere. They are the leader. And so the first thing to do is be the leader you wish you had. And every great leader I've ever met, regardless of their position or rank, every single one of them considered themselves a student of leadership. None of them think of themselves as experts. And if you're a student of a leadership, that means you listen to podcasts.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
It means you read books. It means you read articles. It means you have conversations with your friends or your mentors about these topics constantly. You're constantly in a learning mode. And so if you want to be a leader, You've got to study and be the leader you wish you had. Take yourself on starting tomorrow. I could be a better listener. I need to learn how to be more curious.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
I need to learn how to better communicate. I need to learn how to have an effective confrontation. I need to learn how to have difficult conversations. You've got to take yourself on. Plenty, plenty of resources and very smart people out there who can help you.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
At the end of the day, it's what we want, right? When we don't have it, what we feel is lonely. And we know there's a loneliness epidemic right now. And you can't... It's hard. But we know that trust matters. We know that friends matter. We know that colleagues matter. We know that relationships matter.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And the more that we can say, I don't know, or I need help, the more that we can put ourselves out there. And the irony about trust is that you don't actually build trust by offering help. You build trust by asking for it. And the more that we can ask for help,
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
for difficult things or easy things, for work things or personal things, for things that there are clear answers to and for things that there are not clear answers to. The more that we can do that, the more that we build trust, the more that we feel like we belong, the more that we feel cared for, seen and heard and understood.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So we are players in infinite games every day of our lives, whether you know it or not. Nobody will win marriage. You'll never be number one in marriage. It doesn't exist, right? Nobody will ever win healthcare or education. You can come in first for the finite amount of time that you're in school where we agree upon the metrics called grades, but nobody wins education. Nobody wins career.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
I'm going to sound like a broken record. I think great companies recognize that 100% of customers are people, 100% of employees are people, 100% of investors are people. And if you don't understand people, you don't understand business.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And definitely no such thing as winning business. But if we listen to the language of so many people, it becomes very clear that they don't know the game they're playing in. You hear so many people talk about being number one, being the best, beating their competition. Based on what? based upon what agreed upon objectives, metrics, and timeframes.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And this is a problem, because when we play with a finite mindset in an infinite game, when we play to win in a game that has no finish line, there are some very predictable and consistent outcomes. The big ones are the decline of trust, the decline of cooperation, and the decline of innovation.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Exactly. All I have to say is how's that working out for you?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So, I mean, everybody knows how to do this stuff, right? This is the funny thing about trust. First of all, let's be crystal clear. Trust is a feeling. You can't order someone to trust you. It doesn't work. You can't instruct someone, tell someone, you can trust me, trust me. It doesn't work that way.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
A trust is a feeling, and that feeling is produced naturally when, as human beings, we recognize that the people who are trying to build our trust are open and honest with us, that they consider our needs, our feelings, our desires, that they wouldn't sacrifice us to protect their own short-term selfish interests. We know how to do this. We know how to make friends.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
We know how to build relationships. You know, if people keep secrets, if people are shady, if people aren't upfront, if people don't take accountability, you're allowed to screw up. You just have to say sorry and admit the thing that you did that made somebody suffer or feel a certain way. And if we do this, we build trust. Some people are willing to give trust sooner than others.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
There's no right speed to do it. Some are quick, some are slow, but we have to be consistent in doing all of these very normal human things in order to build trust. It's always funny to me that people think that it's different at work than it is in any other kind of relationship.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And look, I understand that all of these relationship dynamics are not the same. There's the formal hierarchy in a work relationship. I would say there's not necessarily a formal hierarchy in personal relationships, but it depends on your relationship. Sometimes there's definitely a boss in that relationship.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Exactly. There are rules. But the point is, even though the places in which the relationships exist and the dynamics may be different, it's still human beings attempting to feel psychologically safe with other human beings.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
I mean, I love the way you phrased that, which is, you know, how can a leader be consistent and follow through? The answer is be consistent and follow through. What's important to acknowledge when we talk about consistency is really there's two dynamics. There's intensity and there's consistency, right? Intensity tends to be just that short, easily measured, you know, fixed in time consistency.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So let's go to the dentist. I can make an appointment to go to the dentist. I know I have to go twice a year. I know pretty much what's going to happen. And it's an intense experience, and it's a beginning, the middle, and its end, and it's over. And to be healthy, to have healthy teeth and healthy gums, you have to go to the dentist twice a year, right?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
But if that's all you did, all your teeth would fall out. The intensity is not enough. The consistency is what keeps your teeth healthy. You have to brush your teeth every single day for two minutes in the morning and two minutes in the evening. Now, what does brushing your teeth for two minutes do? It does absolutely nothing unless you do it all the time.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
But what if I'm tired and I don't feel like brushing my teeth and I wanna go to bed? Can I do that? Yes, you can. Well, how many nights can I take off? I don't know and neither does any dentist. And so it's the same in human dynamics. You can't repair trust with intensity alone. Like you can't screw up and violate someone's trust and then simply buy them flowers and everything's good.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
You can't simply get down and say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and everything's fine. Those are intense experiences. You still may need to do those things, but it's the little things that by themselves actually do very little, but done over time, demonstrate that you can repair any kind of broken trust if you need to.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So for example, you take any kind of relationship, let's take a business, really a work relationship where you're kind of shady and don't tell somebody about a client because you want to get the commission and you guys share all the time and this one time you didn't because you got a little greedy that month, right? And your friend is like, WTF, we share everything.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And we know that sometimes I win a little more and sometimes you win a little more, but we help each other out and it all evens out in the wash. WTF, like now you're just putting yourself ahead of me. I can't trust you anymore, right? and sending them one client that month doesn't fix it. It's gonna have to be A, going back to the way it was, and you're gonna have to amp it up a little bit.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
You're gonna have to sort of even be more vulnerable and show even more stuff and give away even more to rebuild that trust and then do it consistently. And it may take a week, it may take a month, it may take longer. There's no right amount of time for trust to be restored for a couple of reasons. One is, depends on the violation, But it also depends on the other person.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
That person may have had this happen every single time, so now they just don't trust anybody. And to have these honest conversations, what can I do to restore trust? What specifically do you need from me to restore trust? You have to have that conversation. It's an uncomfortable conversation. You can't be defensive. Sometimes the person knows and sometimes the person doesn't know.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And we take accountability. I screwed up. I am sorry. I got greedy. And you're absolutely right. I violated the trust that you and I had built. And if I were in your position, I would feel the same way. I did that. You can't be like, well, I had a busy month and I've got bills. Excuses don't work. Accountability works. That's the first step in rebuilding trust is accountability.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Saying you're sorry doesn't mean you're wrong. Saying you're sorry means you recognize that your words or your actions cause some sort of negative effect in somebody else's life, even if it's just hurting their feelings, right? The minute you add the word but after I'm sorry, literally, grammatically, what but does is it negates the thing before it. I'm sorry, but literally means I'm not sorry.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Sorry with an excuse like, sorry, but you know what that's, you know, it's like what's going on. No. And the analogy I give is if you're in the airport with your wheelie bag heading to the gate, you accidentally run over someone's foot. You're going to turn around to them and you're going to be like, I'm so sorry. Why? Because it's your wheelie bag. Clearly, you didn't do it on purpose. Right.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
But it's your wheelie bag. Now, can you imagine if you ran over someone's foot and you just stood there and they look at you and go, you ran over my foot and you say, I didn't do it on purpose. A fight would ensue. Right. And so all we're saying is, is that your words and your actions are the wheelie bag. It's okay if you didn't intend it. It happened.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And so you have to take accountability for your words and your actions, even if you didn't intend it. That's just called, you know, sort of normal functioning society. Just like you would immediately apologize for your wheelie bag, you immediately have to apologize for your words and actions if they cause someone discomfort or pain.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And it's so common, right? People like, you know, when people like, why didn't you apologize? Like, well, I didn't mean to do it. I understand that, but you still did it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So follow through is about expectations, right?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So we set expectations and are we fulfilling those expectations? Yes. and follow through the ability to fulfill the expectations that you set are some of the steps that you take to build trust. Also being clear about when you can't follow through. So the thing that I struggle with the most my personal life and my professional life, which is I'm trying to make it work for everybody.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
So five friends say to me, are you free on Saturday? I don't want to say no to anybody. So I make five plans. You're from nine to 11. You're from 1130, right? And of course, that's not how it works. I end up running late. There ends up being traffic. I end up missing one. I end up pushing the others. And now I've got three pissed off people, right? In other words, my follow through suck there.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And so sometimes the discipline to manage expectations is to simply say, I cannot do that. I won't agree to it. So can I see you Saturday? No. No, because I will let you down. The odds are too high. Or, hey, Simon, will you do my taxes for me? No, no, I will not. It will not go well. You will go to jail if I do your taxes. Right.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And so I think follow through is only partially the execution, which is the obvious part. Do the thing you say you're going to do. but it's also managing expectations and giving people heads up before you let them down. Because part of follow-through is not just the actual doing of it. It's letting people know that they need a backup plan.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Like, hey, I know I said I could do this for you by Thursday. It's Tuesday now. I can already see I'm not going to get to it. I would argue that that's a successful follow-through because you can work with somebody or allow them to figure out a backup plan. So communication... an expectation setting, I think helps people follow through more or not just simply fulfilling the actions.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
Because I'd rather somebody tell me they're not going to do a good job than do a half-assed job, but hey, I did it on time, quote unquote.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
I followed through. I'm like, yeah, technically, yes. Technically, yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How To Be the Kind of Leader People Trust With Simon Sinek
And sometimes, look, we're all guilty of it. Like, hey, at the end of this year, you're definitely going to get a raise, but the numbers aren't working out. We can't afford a raise. And I said, I know I said I'd give you a raise and I feel awful, but let me show you the numbers.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
That's such a layered question. So this is the most common question I get, by the way. I'm in middle management. And by the way, middle management is the most difficult job in the world because you have to be tactical and strategic. Because you're going down and up. You're going down and up. You have to do a job and also lead others doing a job.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You're in a position where you have had not a lot of practice leading as well. So you're learning on the job.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You can't reach the CEO. And the anger above you when they're frustrated with the people. And it's just, it's the worst place. And that's where most things die. Which is – I've gone to companies where the senior leadership is incredible. They're wonderful. People focus, blah, blah, blah. And then you go to the front lines and you're like, this is an awful place. Something happens in the middle.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
There's a class of people who are the angry smart people who are angry – and by the way, I think they hate people like me and Trevor too – Well, I'll speak for me. There's this angry smart person who are absolutely smarter than the people above them. But what they don't understand is that intelligence alone and book smarts is not the thing that puts you in a leadership position.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Understanding people, understanding politics, understand how to navigate, having EQ, these are necessary skills as well. And when they compare intelligence to intelligence, they'll always come up higher because
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Right. And in those cases, it's like the only common factor in all of their frustration with all the people they've worked for is them. So either everyone's an idiot.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Or maybe there's a skill set that those people who are advancing or mastering that they're ignoring. It's also the incentive structures. Most organizations tend to overemphasize performance results above leadership capacity. Doing the job and leading others who do the job are not the same thing. You can be a great salesperson. That doesn't make you a great sales manager.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But we tend to promote great salespeople into the position of sales manager where you lead people who do the job you used to do.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
different skill sets and so we don't promote very well and so that's another reason which these people may be better leaders but they're being overlooked because of what are the incentive structures inside the organization and then ultimately the incentive structures above them as well which is the senior leaders are incentivized not to make the company better at least in a public company they're incentivized to make the stock price better and so they're going to promote the people who do that
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And the focus shouldn't be on the boss. You can't control people you can't control. Like no number of anonymously sent books to your boss will change the way that they lead. Although I urge people to keep trying.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Keep trying. It's not going to work, but keep trying. My advice is always the same, which is worry about the things you can control. Be the leader you wish you had, right? And so how do you help the people for whom you're responsible? How do you help them rise? How do you help them build confidence? How do you help them build the skill sets?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
To the people to the left of you and to the right of you, even the person above you, that's a human being too. And we don't know the stresses that they're dealing with. And to have empathy for your boss who might have just yelled at you. to go into their office afterwards and say, are you okay? And truly become the leader you wish you had.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Because what I've learned is, especially if you would adopt an infinite mindset, which is if you let go of that things have to happen by a certain time, what will happen is that influence, that'll be a really well-led group. And generally their performance will go up because they're well-led. And senior management will either just leave them alone because the The numbers are good.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Or if they're curious, they'll say, what are you doing? And what will end up happening is one of those people will get promoted out. They'll take everything they've learned from that great leader. And that will infect another group. And before you know it, the tail wags the dog.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But oral history is a recounting where gossip is laced with judgment.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Let's bring it down a few thousand feet, right? So I think venting is important. So you leave work that day, you pick up the phone, you're like... And you just get it all out. You say all the stupid things and you just need to get it out. It's a venting, right? I think that's good. I think venting is very healthy. Okay. Okay. Venting is healthy. It's like any tension in any relationship.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Sometimes you just need to say it and then you're fine. Okay. So I think venting at work is very important.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Okay. But you can vent about work to other people.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I mean, or you can vent at work about your husband. I mean, like you vent about your kids.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And you have to have emotional professionalism. You know, you can't vent about your boss to somebody who works for you. Because your voice carries, carries influence. Okay. Right? And then you're going to start muddying the waters. But you can vent to somebody you're friends with at work and they know you're just venting and it doesn't affect their opinion about the person you're talking to.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And before you move on, why is venting good? Because I think it releases tension. Because I think if you keep the tension in, it builds, it builds, it builds. And you start forming a narrative about a person that they're dumb, they're stupid, and you start treating them that way.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So gossip, I think, is perpetuating narratives that may or may not be true.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Gossip can destroy a culture.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But it is gossip. I mean, it's not journalism. No, no, no, but wait, wait. Gossip is... That's helpful. But I think when you start spreading ideas about a person that are unresearched, unverified... or that you wouldn't say to that person, it can be very dangerous. I know a company that gossip is a firing offense because it's so destructive.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And when they think about gossip, they're talking about spreading rumors about a person, even if you think it's true.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Oh, this is an interesting idea.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
This is very interesting. I think we need another word here.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I don't know if that's the right word. I think we need another word here because I think you and I are talking about different things.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Because I agree with you and I wouldn't classify that stuff as gossip.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You can't prove that he's a bully. But by the way, gossip spreads much quicker and easier in virtual. Like when you're in an office and you interact with people and somebody's really nice on a daily basis or he says hi and somebody goes, that person is... like the worst person in the world to work with. And they're like, they're really nice.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But when we're separated from each other, what I've learned, what I've found is that false narratives about somebody swirl way quicker.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I love how we're all having a conversation about the office, like from our corporate jobs. Yeah, but we've all been in offices.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I know that's working in an office. That's going to an office and then leaving.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So we did this in our company because I was very public about it with the whole team, which is, I said, from now on, when somebody says something about someone's intentions or labels their character... It is everyone's responsibility in that meeting to interrupt that train of thought and raise the question. So, for example, that guy's so lazy, right? Oh, my God, he's so lazy.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
All that's needed is for anybody in the room to say could be lazy or could be stressed or has some stuff going on at home or we've put them in a job they don't know how to do it and so they're freaking out. Like to just add to a list of other possibilities that it could be that's getting the results that we're getting. Lazy is absolutely on the list.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And it's just giving people grace that we're not judging why they're performing the way they are or why they are the way they are. So I'll give you another example. I went for a walk with a friend of mine. She wanted some advice. And the conversation started like this. My boss is a horrible person. And I immediately interrupted and said, oh, my God, does she kick her dog and abuse her children?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
She said, no. I said, okay, so we don't know that she's a horrible person. We know that she's a horrible boss. Those are two very, very different things. And I think that's the problem. When we label someone's behavior or skill set versus labeling their character, and when we label their character, it's insidious and dangerous, and that's when it gets toxic.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Thank you. Where are you based? Here. Oh, you're based in LA? Yeah, yeah. I'm a New Yorker, but I'm here now.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And that's a good example of the swirl of gossip. That's what I mean. It can destroy someone's character, and this is where I think these things get dangerous. But you're 100% right, which is the office is a little petri dish, and everything that we learn at work is applicable. The best organizations are values-based, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
That's, yeah. So that's, go on.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
No, I... Make him come. My sister and her family moved here in the middle of 2019. My sister and I are very close, and we work together. And so to help her ease into living in L.A., I got a place here and started doing the bi-coastal thing. But, you know, COVID was kind of a magical gift.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So you are highlighting the very problem with modern capitalism, right? The capitalism that we have today is not Adam Smith capitalism. That's not the capitalism we have today. We have a bastardized form of capitalism influenced by an economist from the late 70s named Milton Friedman.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The Adam Smith version of capitalism was that the baker selfishly wants to make the best bread so that they can sell more bread than all the other bakers. And the butcher selfishly wants to make the best meat so he can sell more than all the other butchers. And the dairy farmer wants to make the best butter so that he can sell more. And what you get is the best sandwich.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
What we as the customer get is the best sandwich, right? So the selfish behavior of wanting to be better than their others benefits the customer, right? Yeah. And in the late 1970s, Milton Friedman wrote an op-ed in the New York Times where he basically proposed a new definition of business. He actually called it the responsibility of business.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The responsibility of business was to maximize profit within the bounds of the rules. Forget about ethics. Maximize profits within the bounds of the rules, right? Okay. Ethics are a higher standard than the rules. And you see it all the time. Companies did some horrifically unethical things. A patent to an essential drug, and they raised the price 1,500%. It's within the rules.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And they all say the same thing. We broke no laws. Yeah. Which is true, right? Horrible, but not illegal, right? And so in the late 70s and early 80s, a lot of the ruling classes, the CEO classes, heard this definition and went, Yeah, baby. Right? And they embraced Friedman's definition of capitalism or business, the responsibility to business, and they sort of doubled down on it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And you started – it gave rise to some entirely new behaviors and entirely new CEOs. This was just from this op-ed? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, it became a popular thing. Wow, Milton.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Well done, Milton. I don't like Milton Friedman, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
There we go. Can't speak about his character, but I don't like the work he put out there. And so you started to see these new behaviors arise. So, for example, the use of mass layoffs to balance the books.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
on an annualized basis, right? Did not exist in the United States prior to the 1980s. It didn't exist. Layoffs, mass layoffs were used for existential reasons. Like, oh my God, the company's going bankrupt. We have to cut 10% of our workforce. Now it's like, we're profitable, we're just not as profitable as we promised. You lose your job, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
That started in the early 1980s, and it started to gain popularity. And then it gave rise to an entirely new type of CEO like Jack Welch, who was the CEO of GE. And he was like the poster child of Miltonian economics, where you started to see the shareholder being prioritized over the customer and the employee. You started to see shorter-term time horizons.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You started to see an emphasis on growth. price of stock versus is this good for the company's long-term value. You started to see long-term greed being replaced by short-term greed. I don't have an issue with long-term greed, but short-term greed is a problem. And the use of human beings' livelihoods to maximize shareholder value.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And this was all because of this Miltonian-influenced Jack Welch poster child that is the standard of how businesses are led today. There's nothing wrong with capitalism. There's a huge problem with this version of capitalism. And you can see what's happening. There's a rise of populist movements across the West and the capitalist societies.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
My niece and nephew were kids that I used to see, you know, a couple times a month when I'd drive up to the suburbs and spend a few hours at their house. And then when we went into lockdown, we were having family dinner every single night.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I don't care if you're on the left and right, Bernie or Trump, it doesn't matter. And they're complaining about the same thing, which is the very small percentage of the elite are getting richer. And everybody else is being left behind. And when you have a huge delta between those who have and those who don't, what you get is revolution.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The middle class is drying up and people are not investing in the stock market anymore. The whole stock market exists so that the average working American can share in the wealth of a nation. That's why we have a stock market. That's what Alexander Hamilton imagined, right? And the... But that's not what we have anymore. It's become a game for a few so they can command more wealth.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And just to put one final sort of cap on it, If you go back to the anthropology of leadership, like if we go back, you know, 50,000 years, whatever you want to do, where we lived in tribes that were never bigger than about 150, 200 people, human beings evolved into naturally hierarchical animals.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
We're constantly assessing and judging who's alpha, depending on whatever the standards are for that group. Who's alpha? And we treat our alphas differently, right? You know this. As soon as you started getting some fame, you're better looking and all your jokes are funnier, right? If you leave your jacket in another room, somebody goes and gets your jacket for you.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
If you're junior and you leave a jacket in the other room, you get your own jacket, right? That's just how it works. And so what we did was we assessed our alphas and we stepped back and we allowed our alphas to get first choice of meat and first choice of mate. Except the group is not stupid. We don't give first choice of meat and first choice of mate to our alphas for nothing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
There's a deep-seated social contract that when danger threatens the tribe, we expect the person who's actually stronger, actually smarter, actually better fed to confront the danger to protect the tribe. That's why we give you all the perks. You don't get the perks for free. They come at a cost. And so that's the deep-seated social contract. We have no problem with CEOs making more money than us.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yeah, yeah. I got very, very close with those kids. And I love living in L.A. for them. And when they're not here, I'm very bored. You do a lot of work.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Where it broke the contract and why you get the anger is not the disparity. It's when we started to see the people who are in alpha positions, when danger threatened the tribe, the economy took a little shake, whatever it is, that they would sooner sacrifice the people to protect their own interests rather than sacrifice their interests for the short term to protect the people.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And that's why we're getting the populist reaction. That's what it is. It's the people saying, you have violated your... Right. And so we're coming for you with pitchforks.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So the reaction isn't throw out capitalism and democracy. The answer is throw out this form of capitalism. Go back.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The ones who don't agree with me don't call me. Have you ever changed the CEO's mind? The problem is not their mind. The problem is their incentive structure. Like I remember I was working with a CEO and gave him some counsel on sort of how to organize things better. And he was really honest. He's like, I totally agree with everything you're telling me. And your insights are spot on.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And I completely agree. And I'm going to implement none of it. Because if I do it your way, I won't get my bonus. He was just very blunt with me. Damn. And so, but there are good leaders who are taking risks to fight the machine. There's also a younger generation of leaders that are coming up. The newer companies, the newer CEOs are raising these questions.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And you start to hear things like triple bottom line and you start to hear these things. But you're 100% right. You know, the number of, look, the fact that I've forgotten all the businesses that come together. I've forgotten what they're called. But a few years ago, they put out a statement saying purpose really matters in business.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But when I started, if you talk about purpose at work, you were just a weird-ass hippie. And every company has a purpose statement on their website, even if they don't follow it, even if it's just because they have to. But that's at least progress.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Is that all this is for your transaction?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I think, and I'm actually, it's funny you say that. People are very surprised by how close my sister and I are. They say, you know, what's it like working with your sister? Is that okay? As if it's some sort of disaster.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And for them, I think they feel it would be. And I don't want to work with anybody else but my sister. And I talk a thousand times a day and we bounce between work and personal stuff. Yeah. And to answer your question, I don't know if there's a formula. I think one of the things that made us close as we grew up living all over the world. Ah, so you were your only contact.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
How do you define the value and the purpose? So we're conflating a bunch of things here, right? I don't think any of that's purpose either. That stuff is superficial and it's trappings. And none of that stuff makes for quote unquote culture either. Yeah. So just go back a few years.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So there was a time not that long ago where you're right, where you went to work simply to make the money to pay for your stuff. And you were friends with your neighbors and you had a sense of tribe with your neighbors. And you got some sort of belonging or community or moral guidance from church. And you had bowling on Saturdays and you had the tournaments on Thursday nights.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And we had these things.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Sunday dinners and all these traditions and institutions. The bowling clubs, the bowling leagues went away. Church attendance is down. We're not really friends with our neighbors. But we still have desire for all these things. And so a lot of pressure was put on work to give me these things that I used to get outside of work. So it's not all work trying to force these things on you.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So we were the only common friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Some of it was the changing world around us. And we are demanding of our offices to give it to us because we're not getting it anywhere else.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And that's totally fine.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And that's totally fine, by the way. Yeah. And that's totally fine. But when I talk about purpose at work, right, I'm not talking about something spiritual or anything like that. When we talk about vision, whether it's vision – the best companies sound like – they sound like social movements. Yeah. Which is scary to me because I don't... It's cultish.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And by the way, but hold on. But you're conflating so... There's a swirl of stuff going on here. I think Ben clarifies the meaning. So you're right. It is cultish.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And... That's not necessarily a bad thing because it means I believe there's a shared set of values. I feel like I belong. I feel like I found my tribe, right? The company actually does obey its values and would sacrifice its short-term money to uphold its values. Those are good companies. And when you say, oh, they'll just fire you, the bad companies will. Trust me. I'm with you on the tech.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
They say all the right things. They put the values on the wall, but it's all a punchline and they don't use them to make decisions. So you're 100 percent right there. But I'll take you to see some companies where they are treated right. They don't get fired simply because the company is struggling. And they are hired slowly because they try and choose people who believe in the same values.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Who are cultural contributors rather than cultural fits, right? Which is I like it here. I want to give to the people to the left and right of me because they give to me. And they have a psychological safety when they come to work. They feel like someone's got their back. I guess what I object to… And those are beautiful things.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
That's what I think about. If I offered you more money to go have the exact same job with a different person, Would you take it immediately?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
How old are your kids?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But you're not following your own rules.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But sometimes it does.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I don't. I hear you. Yeah. I just appreciate the irony of the thing you're railing against is the thing that you fully embraced, which is if I offered you more, you said it's just a place to make money.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
To serve my family and I would get my community somewhere else. But if I offered you more money to work for somebody else.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But if I gave you more money to go somewhere else, you wouldn't want to. You'd want to stay here because you quote unquote like it here. And you feel on some occasions that you actually are contributing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So there's a, if you care about this stuff.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Like the messages you're spreading and especially on the daily show, you know, the stuff that you're putting out there in some way, shape or form was informing people and helping people understand the world and make sense of the world. That was the thing you were contributing to and it gave the work meaning. You didn't just come to work and be like, oh, I've got to work and write again.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You're like, no, this is – I'm enjoying this because I feel like I'm advancing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So I'm bilingual. I speak English and American.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So, you know, like kids who have French parents, you know, they'll like just start speaking French to their parents. They go between English, French, English, French. Well, I do that. Like when I talk to my parents or when I talk to my friends in England, I have an English accent. I use English vocabulary. When I talk to my American friends, I speak American. So I bounce between the two.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So, by the way, I think you and I agree more than not, which is just my attitude is like... The world is the way it is. And if we're going to go to work, then work should at least feel like I'm contributing. And I want to go home at the end of the day, like, you know, if you work hard for something you believe in, it's passion. If you work hard for something you don't believe in, it's stress.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And I would rather people, even if they work really hard, to be like, you know what? The sacrifice was worth it because I feel like my work has some value in the world. It meant something. When it's done right, it's gorgeous. But the problem is, and you said it, superficially people say the same words, talk about the same values. The difference is they're not actually living them or doing them.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
To go to your point about the why, a why is fundamentally an origin story. That's all it is. And a why does not change. You have one why your whole life. And that's it. Because you are the sum total of how you were raised. You have won why your whole life? You've won why your whole life.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Now I'm going to be fighting with you before we go. Wait, what? Yes. Tell me more. Oh, and now we're out of time. You have one why. You have one why your entire life, because you are the product of how you were raised. Okay. That's, I mean, you're not gonna, like, you are who you are. Okay. And there's nothing that can happen in your life that will make you not who you are.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
My sister is 100% American, can't even fake an English accent. That's so interesting. They found these feral kids in India. And they found that there's a critical age for language. If they brought their kids back into society between the ages of 8 to 10, they could learn syntax and language and they could be fully integrated back into society. But if it was later than that...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Now, you can pretend you're someone different. We would call you inauthentic. And when I uncover a why, literally all I'm doing is going backwards, discover the patterns of what made you who you are. And then I'm trying to put words on them. And it's the same for a company. Walt Disney, when it does things right, is fundamentally the origin story of Walt Disney's vision of the world.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
This escape from the stressful lives that we have to go into this magical place and we can leave reality for a moment. That's literally what it says in the plaque outside Disneyland, you know? And that's all, if you look at the beginnings of things. We can do a little, let's have a little fun. I've been having fun, just for the record.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I've only been having fun. Tell me something specific that you've worked on in your entire career. It does not have to have been commercially successful.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But something specific that you worked on in your career that you loved being a part of. And if every project was like this one thing, you'd be the happiest person alive. Something specific.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Okay. Tell me of all of the amazing things you've done in this remarkable career of yours, what was it about the White House Correspondents' Dinner that stands out that you want to bring it up now?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So you've had those experiences in other jobs. When you were at The Daily Show, you could fill the writer's room with whatever you wanted. I mean, you had a boss, but kind of.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So if everything in your life was like that, game on. Game on. Okay. Tell me an early specific happy childhood memory, something I can relive with you. An early, specific… Happy childhood memory.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The kids could only do like when you see like chimps learning to speak. It's like word association. Banana hungry. You know, they couldn't learn syntax. And so I think it also applies to accents. My sister was younger when we came to America, fully American, where I was sort of on that cusp. And so I had an English accent living here for years before I kind of lost it. But I'm still bilingual.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Forties two. Okay. No, no, I'm being serious though. When you're, you know, a child, like under, you know, in school, like an early childhood memory.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Because I think your memories at different ages are very... Yeah, definitely early specific childhood memories.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
This is something, a specific time, not just a thing you did regularly? No, no, no. This is one specific one.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And of all the amazing things you had happen in this magical childhood that you've talked about, what specifically was it about this one thing that stands out so much that you want to talk about it now?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So now what I'm doing is I'm looking for the connection between those things and saying, okay, that's the common factor, right? You're the first person I've ever talked to ever, and I've done hundreds of these, who said, I'm telling you the same story. I can hear that they're the same story, but...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But you're the first person who can hear it, who's able to... Oh, yeah, I'm always cognizant of these things. So just to pay that compliment that you're living outside your own head. But this is the thing, which is where you find great joy is when you can bring the right people together to do something that matters and have a...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
a ton of fun doing it yes okay and that's sort of your purpose in life which is to bring people together to do something bigger than themselves and have a good time doing it right and if everything you do in your life you can is that is that is that yeah the merry-go-round we go to call it merry-go-round yeah and everything in your life is like that roundabout you that is what a game on is yeah and so the opportunity for you
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
is to remind yourself of that, right? So whether you get a Lego merry-go-round or a picture of a merry-go-round or just that merry-go-round. Oh, this is, I like sentimental things. The merry-go-round is, it's your talisman. It's the thing that reminds you of why you get out of bed today. All you want to do in life is work tirelessly to create the merry-go-round, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And the thing is, is because you have vision, we're going to make this thing fly. Yeah. Okay, so... People go, huh? And you go, you, you, you, and you. Yeah. Okay? And now they're all coming in and you're having a blast. And whether it succeeds or fails, it didn't fly. It did not fly. It did not fly. It did not. It did not fly. So it actually failed, if we're really honest with ourselves.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But it didn't matter because it was the joy of the together and the fun, even with the vision, that made it worth it. It was the exact same thing for the correspondence dinner. You'd never said at any point – and I freaking nailed it. No, that's not the point. Right? The point wasn't the result. No. The point was the people coming together.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Everybody- Has. Yes. And it doesn't have to be a happily childhood memory. So I did this with somebody a few years ago. And I said, tell me an early childhood memory. And they said, I had a horrible childhood. Yes. I said, well, tell me any memory. And they said, I had a very, very alcoholic, abusive father. And he would go on these drunken rampages. And I remember hiding in the closet.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
and I wrapped my sister underneath me to protect her from my father. And, you know, we're both crying as she's telling this story. She's a protector. She wakes up every day to protect those who can't protect themselves. I can bring myself to tears talking about it, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And she was struck by this pattern that she's at her natural best and she finds peace when she's able to offer protection to others from whatever it is. And so these patterns exist for everyone. They're not the same as yours. And whenever somebody hears that pattern, the result is goosebumps, some sort of emotional response.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
We're confusing struggle and joy. Yeah. So I went to Kenya this year and we went into the Mara and, you know, to the poor neighborhoods and we got to meet some remarkable, remarkable human beings. And I started to... realize that we from the West come in. I mean, it's like your story. Yeah. You know, it's like, we have it so good. Yeah. You have nothing. You live in a mud hut.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
How can you be happy? You know, I'll show you happiness. Come look at my house with all my stuff. Right? And all they do is smile. And you look at the children and say, they have nothing, they have no toys, and they've got a tire and a stick, and they're laughing. And there's data on this, that children that have more toys actually don't have as good imaginations.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So she knows four languages.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yes, he's got a tire and a stick, and he's got an active imagination. And those kids, those boys and girls, all they do is smile and play. And I met these remarkable people who absolutely their life is difficult. And the walking four hours to sell. Right, yeah, yeah. It is absolutely a life of hardship. But they are happy. And they have joy in life. And they look after each other.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And it's everything you said. When somebody needs a house, we help them build a house. And the sense of community they have. And it made me realize that we in the West are addicted to money. And we look at other people who don't have our addiction and we feel sorry for them because they don't have our high. Like it's a heroin addict feeling sorry for all the people who don't have a heroin high.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And they're looking at us going, you're a heroin addict. Yeah. But it feels so good to be on heroin, right? And that's us in the West. We're all so intoxicated with what the money feels like. We've forgotten about community. We've forgotten about sacrifice. We've forgotten about giving. We've forgotten about helping. We've forgotten about imagination. And I went in thinking, what can I give?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And I came out saying, what must I learn? I love that.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yes, yes. And the answer is service. Oh, damn. I have a friend who was struggling. She knows what I do, and she came to me and said, I need your help. I said, okay. So we got together every Wednesday for 90 minutes, and she told me what she was going through, and her marriage was falling apart, and her career wasn't going the right way, and her kids were driving her crazy.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
She wasn't having a good time. And every Wednesday, I'd give her some counsel and some advice, and she'd feel great. And that'd last for about two days. And then she'd go back, and then she'd come back next Wednesday, and she'd feel great. And you see this pattern. This went on for months. And I finally sort of remembered my own work. And I remembered, you know, sort of my own work in service.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And, like, I looked into Alcoholics Anonymous. You know, the 12-step program, the first step is admitting you have a problem. And if you master 11 steps... but not the 12th, you're going to succumb to the disease. But if you master the 12th, you're more likely to beat the disease. The 12th step is to help another alcoholic.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
It's service. That's the 12th step. So I said to her, I did a little social experiment on us. I said, every week we get together and I help you. And I'm realizing I need help too. I trust you more than anybody. You're my best friend. I love you. And I need coaching too. And I was being deadly serious. It wasn't a game. And can we split our time? 45 for me, 45 for you. She said, absolutely.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So the next week we got together and we spent 90 minutes talking about me. And she gave me advice and she gave me counsel. And the next week we got together and just by accident, it's not like we planned it this way, we spent 90 minutes talking about me. Within about two months, her life was back on track and she was golden.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So what I recommend to people who are struggling with whatever it is, I can't find love, I can't find happiness, I can't find a job, I can't find whatever it is I'm looking for. Find someone who's struggling with the same thing and help them find the thing they're looking for. And by the way, it reinforces everything that we've been talking about this whole time, which is community is the thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But when we're selfishly minded, we don't build community. Yeah. And if you look at all of those places that we have all visited that we love that have community, everything is about service. That's all it is. Well, I don't have the time. I don't have the energy. That's where the sacrifice comes from. We find a way to find the energy to help you build your house even though I got my own struggles.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And the joy of giving time and energy, non-redeemable commodities, unlike money. You make more money.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
uh to someone to see the benefit that they derive has an impact on human beings that is hard to calculate a fulfillment that you get that is only can only be described as joy and the reason is because that is the biology of how we're designed that is mother nature's desperate attempt to get the species to survive and we will only survive if we help each other that's why it feels so good
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And that's what purpose is. Purpose for me, the deepest meaning of purpose for me is it's the opportunity to serve those who serve others.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
People describe you the same way. You know that.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I don't think that's fair. No, he's so chaotic. I don't think I'm pure chaos. I mean... The thing that we enjoy about each other when we talk is we both enjoy chaos and finding the patterns in chaos. Yes, exactly. And I think that's what creativity is. I think creativity is the ability to find order in chaos. And I love chaos because chaos is where all the magic happens.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Otherwise, everything's linear.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So, I mean, the simple answer is yes. I am absolutely, absolutely fascinated by the world order. This is not something we're going to solve in a podcast.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
We will. We've got like 50 something odd minutes. Perfect. Most world orders I can solve in 30. So I just, I find this, the world order just absolutely fascinating. And trying to understand how we got here as well, where we went from the Cold War, or Cold War 1.0, where it was very neat. It was very neatly organized. You had democracy and capitalists on one side and communists on the other side.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And it was very clearly delineated that if you were a communist, we weren't your friends, and that was it. All the communists were on one team, and all the democracies and capitalists or those who aspired to be were on the other team. Play. It's very, very simple. And both were reasonably rational and played by very similar rules. Well, that doesn't exist anymore.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And we now have ideologies mixed together. Our adversaries are also our trading partners. It's a complete mess and continues to get messier. And I'm absolutely fascinated by how our leaders don't really understand – the world that we're operating in and how we got here. And yet they're attempting to make decisions to manage it or lead it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So this is great because... All of your listeners are tuned in for this.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I think your assessment is pretty spot on. Damn, we're in trouble. But like when I work with government or I work with military, like I'm constantly amazed at how much they know and simultaneously amazed at how little they know. And that's true for government and military. Those things live in this strange paradox.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And it's constantly amazing to me how good they are and how bad they are simultaneously. There are multiple reasons for that. One is – and it's the same in the corporate world, which is how we promote – There are tactical people and there are strategic people. Nobody's purely one or the other. You know, tactical people sort of know how to get things done. They're in the weeds.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
They can see the details. And the strategic people, a little more blue sky, can see sort of far off horizons. You know, the best strategic people aren't the best at tactics and the best tactical people aren't the good at strategy.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
What I found is fascinating, especially when you get to the higher echelons of government or military, which is the really great strategic thinkers know that they are bad at tactical thinking and surround themselves with good tactical thinkers. Okay. Mm-hmm. The really great tactical thinkers who find themselves in high-level positions think they're great at strategy.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And they don't even understand it. Think of it like marketing. Marketing is a little more ethereal. It's a little more blue sky-ish. Finance, a little more detailed, a little more in the weeds, right? Marketers know that they're bad at finance. Finance people think they're good marketers. Okay.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Where marketing people are like, you should probably get somebody in finance to look at that. I don't understand. Right? And so what ends up happening is the tactical people, if they get promoted into strategic jobs, they think they understand it. But they don't. And it's not that they don't understand. It's that their view is just too shallow. They're operating only with what they can see.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And they're not very good at making decisions based on what they can't see or very long term. They don't understand, like, if you pull lever A... then these things might happen. They just like, pull lever A, get this. And you're like, yes, and this will be the response to that. There's not that way of thinking. And I think strategy in general is one of those very misunderstood things.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
It's hard, it's amorphous, and it's sort of in the clouds. But you're 100% right. I think that would be my assessment, too. It's amazing that the decisions are being made by people who don't fully understand the nuance.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And simultaneously, there are people there whose minds will blow you away how much they understand and how smart they are and how they understand nuance better than... Actually, no, no, I appreciate that. It's the duality that's so confusing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I actually do. Because I think of myself as an idiot. And I mean this honestly.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Which means I'm an idiot.