Sarah Dalton

And they'll always describe aspects of talent. So when they talk about, I need a really good problem solver, or I need someone who's going to be the relational glue. in an organization that's otherwise really dissatisfied right now. Or they talk about someone who can put good processes in place. These are all illustrations of very specific talents that we can measure in people.

And they'll always describe aspects of talent. So when they talk about, I need a really good problem solver, or I need someone who's going to be the relational glue. in an organization that's otherwise really dissatisfied right now. Or they talk about someone who can put good processes in place. These are all illustrations of very specific talents that we can measure in people.

The difference is we put them through an assessment. We can ask way more questions in an assessment and get a much more reliable read of how people think and whether or not they have the talents that you might think they do in an interview, but they really don't. It's way too easy to fool someone in an interview where you've got no real experience with them.

The difference is we put them through an assessment. We can ask way more questions in an assessment and get a much more reliable read of how people think and whether or not they have the talents that you might think they do in an interview, but they really don't. It's way too easy to fool someone in an interview where you've got no real experience with them.

You're not exactly sure what questions to ask. So what I've got to do in my job is to wind people back and try and get them to hold back their own gut instincts and decision making about the candidates that they like and say, look, I know you might think this because you met them once or twice. But here's what the assessment results tell me about how they actually think.

You're not exactly sure what questions to ask. So what I've got to do in my job is to wind people back and try and get them to hold back their own gut instincts and decision making about the candidates that they like and say, look, I know you might think this because you met them once or twice. But here's what the assessment results tell me about how they actually think.

And here are the questions that you should be asking. It's a journey. It doesn't happen overnight. And they don't always listen to us. So they don't always take our advice. They don't always listen to us when we say, do not move forward. We just look at what happens. We're usually right. I was like, do you have a stack of I told you so cards? You do have a stack. We definitely have those.

And here are the questions that you should be asking. It's a journey. It doesn't happen overnight. And they don't always listen to us. So they don't always take our advice. They don't always listen to us when we say, do not move forward. We just look at what happens. We're usually right. I was like, do you have a stack of I told you so cards? You do have a stack. We definitely have those.

And that's, you know, that's what helps us tighten up some of our predictions and our understanding of what characteristics drive better performance in a role.

And that's, you know, that's what helps us tighten up some of our predictions and our understanding of what characteristics drive better performance in a role.

Okay, so let me shift gears and talk about the book, The Five Talents That Really Matter. How Great Leaders Drive Extraordinary Performance. And I think what's just so just catching already is we are definitely seeing an emerging emphasis on a different kind of leadership than probably existed, Barry, when you first started in your career.

Okay, so let me shift gears and talk about the book, The Five Talents That Really Matter. How Great Leaders Drive Extraordinary Performance. And I think what's just so just catching already is we are definitely seeing an emerging emphasis on a different kind of leadership than probably existed, Barry, when you first started in your career.

The way that people are really embracing this idea that, you know, leadership isn't just about climbing the corporate ladder. It's a lot of responsibility, not just to those north of them, but to the folks that they're leading and managing, etc. So tell us a little bit about how the book came to be and maybe give us a couple of nuggets to entice us there.

The way that people are really embracing this idea that, you know, leadership isn't just about climbing the corporate ladder. It's a lot of responsibility, not just to those north of them, but to the folks that they're leading and managing, etc. So tell us a little bit about how the book came to be and maybe give us a couple of nuggets to entice us there.

Sarah, did you want to chime in on this?

Sarah, did you want to chime in on this?

I mean, just to add to what Barry is already saying, the idea with the five talents that really matter is that there are unchanging elements of who people are that drive very good performance in leadership roles. As Barry said, not everyone will have them or people will have them to different degrees. So what we wanted to do with this book is give people a means of very...

I mean, just to add to what Barry is already saying, the idea with the five talents that really matter is that there are unchanging elements of who people are that drive very good performance in leadership roles. As Barry said, not everyone will have them or people will have them to different degrees. So what we wanted to do with this book is give people a means of very...

Give people a very clear language and a means of identifying the characteristics in themselves that might lend to more effective leadership and to help them think about where they spend their time if they're going to develop those.

Give people a very clear language and a means of identifying the characteristics in themselves that might lend to more effective leadership and to help them think about where they spend their time if they're going to develop those.