Ryen Russillo
Appearances
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Look, I'm not an insider. I think just there was a younger version of me egotistically, maybe a little insecure in the business where I was like, well, I heard. Then I got to know Woj. I got to know his daily sacrifice. And I was like, it's wrong of me to dip my toes into his world. Yep, stolen valor. Right, just because I have access, right? Like, I don't go on CNBC because I day trade.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Are you good at it? Here's what I'm telling you. If I put the right, if I had more screens, I'd be better. Yeah. But I'm hearing big time rumblings.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Just whoever you have a contact with in the league, because I've never talked to more teams than those 48 hours after that trade on Saturday night. Like I was hearing from guys I hadn't talked to in years.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
It still makes no sense, right? So, look, we've been in New Orleans all week. Every single thing I've gone to, all anybody wants to talk about is Luka.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Bobby Marks had to be like, he's not hacked. He's like, I need a third source to confirm this about the original tweet.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Right, because if it had sent until we joked on Saturday after it happened that Bronny would have been in it.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
He would have said yes.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I know that must have hurt.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You're just girthy, dude. You're not even fat.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
270 is not bad at all. On 6'7"? I'd be 270 if I could. Yeah. Right now, I'm not even 6'7".
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, but BMI, there was a new thing I read today. It was like, finally, you're like, oh, you think it might be a little outdated for jack people? Yeah. Scientists. Yeah. Muscle. But is it just he hated Luca? Yeah. It seems like it. I mean, I think everything is out. There's other conspiracy theories. And I love, you know, when somebody is really smart and they're really good at making a point.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And then everybody was like, hey, did you hear about this like casino thing and like the moving around? And then you're like, OK, Maybe. Maybe. Or, because it's so convincing, right? But I always have this issue with making this simple thing difficult. And I think those of us that do this for a living like to do that at times. And this guy wasn't even, I don't even think, a media member.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
But you're like, do you think they want to leave Dallas? Do you think they want to leave the Dallas market? And so we get a major league on our hands here? Like, of course they don't. They want the expansion teams. For Vegas. Yeah, but they want the money paid. When you expand, those two new owners have to write these massive checks.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I don't know if you've heard about this one. Of course I've heard about it. I've had it sent to me by people being like, checks out.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I like when somebody shares it with you like they got it in a source that no one else has already seen a hundred times.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Here's what I think is the funniest part about it. Is that I guess Niko wanted to keep it a secret because he was afraid people would get mad if they found out. I don't know. But he was like, don't tell anyone. Yeah, he thanked Palenka for keeping it quiet. And you're like, what did you think Palenka was going to do? Start telling other people?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
The other thing that I always think is insane with rebuilds in the NBA is we need everybody to be on the same timeline age-wise. So you go... So if, like, in theory, Ant were available, he's too young to play next to Kyrie. Now, granted, positionally, a fit center in AD and Kyrie.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
It's very clear that Nico's background in the guys that he's had relationships with, like he said, I don't do anything scary. I'm like, you did the single scariest transaction in the NBA two years ago by being the one team that's like, yeah, we'll trade stuff for Kyrie Irving. And it's worked out. And I think it's worked out because of that relationship.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Clearly, the AD relationship goes all the way back. The Palenka relationship goes back 20-plus years. You know, everybody's read all the same stuff about how, like, Niko was obsessed with Kobe, made it work. The Palenka-Kobe deal where Kobe's, like, telling Palenka, go start your own thing. I'm coming with you. Like, these guys have been...
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
um, you know, and not a weird way, but like collectively in bed in this basketball world for a really long time. But like at some point you have to have someone close to you that can, that can go, Hey, even if you don't love Luca, even if you love a D that, silence is not the play here.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You know, like, every time there's a big trade, and granted, it's more in the NBA than any other sports, but it used to happen in baseball when it was a more active trade deadline. But when the insider goes on TV, like, it just happened with De'Aaron Fox. Shams goes on, Windhorse goes on, whoever goes on, it's like, look.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
People around the league are starting to tell you Sacramento definitely looking at offers and maybe open for business on De'Aaron Fox. A lot of times that comes from the team. They want the guy to go on, advertise to the rest of the league that this guy is available. The idea that if it got out, it hurts their leverage is bullshit. This is unfathomable to so many different teams around the league.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
This should be an auction. It should be a public auction. It should be updated every fucking day. The Lakers, as Windhorse reported, saying that they went to Dallas and said, we can't give you the second first because we don't know if he'll sign an extension.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Then if you're Nico, you go, okay then, then you can walk away from acquiring Luka Doncic at 25 years old in a trade that is unprecedented historically.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You can say no to me. And instead, Nico was like, yeah, you're right.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Well, that's the other thing, is that I spend a lot of time, I mean, I don't really talk to anybody about it, but they're like, oh, look at this guy's numbers. I'm like, that guy's a loser. Oh, he had 30 points again? Cool. Do you watch all the other shit that he does wrong? This guy has a laundry list of losing plays inside of a basketball game.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Like, I know you're upset about the Zach Levine thing. No, I'm not upset. But, you know, he's played in, what, four playoff games in his career? So, like, we're sitting around. This league has a lot of dudes that put up huge, huge numbers, but they do it on their own terms. They don't pay attention to anything else. They've never even heard of an off-ball cut to save their lives.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
No. It sounds very mean. Well, Jordan Poole is, like, I joke that if he went to confession, he'd be like, what is this? because there's just no... No conscience. There's zero. I mean, he's the most dangerous player in the NBA. I love him. I love watching him play. It's actually not entertaining. No, it is. I can't imagine being a teammate. I'd want to get on the plane at one point.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Like, are you fucking serious, man? So anyway, the point is, is there's a lot of players that get a lot of pub that were like, well, he must be good because look at his line and look at all these things he's done. And they've done nothing. They've never sniffed anything. Maybe a playoff fluky run Luca with a team three years ago. That's third option was Reggie Bullock. Okay. Like,
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
That team made it to the Western Conference Finals. And then this team gets through OKC. It gets through Minnesota. And it plays, you know, it was a bad matchup against Boston. That Boston team was really, really good. But this guy was actually going on the playoff runs. Right.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
So all these other guys are like, I can think, you know, sometimes I think there's guys that are good that are on bad teams and other guys I think that are frauds. This guy's not a fraud.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, that's what he brings. Right. I mean, that was alarming. It was also weird because I think the Celtics knew because, I mean, it's pretty obvious by their approach. Like, we're going to just kill this guy. I'm out. The Celtics also had like five to seven guys with a ball in their hands that you actually have to worry about off the dribble, not just spot up guys.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
So you can make a target that you're hunting move more when you're as good as the Celtics are. So, those video clips, like, okay, fine, but I can do the same thing with a ton of other players that don't even sniff the first or second round. Right, right.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
That matchup was tough for them, but I think just team to team it was a tough matchup because it was like the first team. I mean, they had Tatum guarding their center while Tatum was playing point guard. And, like, I was at two of the games, and it was funny because Dallas at one point was like, oh, wait, maybe we can attack Tatum on the post.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And it's like, cool, you're going to run Gafford post-ups and take the ball out of Lucas' hands, take the ball out of Kyrie's hands. Like, you're playing right into what they want to do. But I think PFT, your point is just like, okay, you want to call him fat? Fine. You want to say he's not committed enough? Fine. You want to say he argues the refs?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Like, dude, pick a guy that doesn't argue with the refs. Like, it's always shocking when you go, oh, so-and-so doesn't argue all that much. I mean, sure. Okay, fine. All great stuff. Call other fucking teams. Right.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I think Ainge would have done like Tatum after he won an NBA championship with him.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I don't know. I mean, he never would tell you the truth or anything. I don't know if Boston could after just winning with Tatum, knowing that Tatum's always in shape, plays every game, plays defense. You just want a title. Their window is still open.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah. Max aura. Not your Max. Unattainable aura.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I love that discussion. I love that first take. Whose team is it? Yeah, whose team is that? Bronny. When Dwayne Wade spent like two years doing interviews and then like another 10 years after, he's like, well, the team didn't really click until I sacrificed.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
He's like, oh, you sacrificed against the guy who at the time is the best version we've ever seen of him. That's arguably like. Again, we know we're sitting here. He's number two probably all the time. There's definitely a clip that runs in two years, right? Luke is out of shape. He gets hurt again. There's questions about the extension. He's miserable.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
He actually doesn't like L.A., which would be shocking to me. I think he's probably going to hang out with all the hockey players and move to Manhattan Beach. But I – We know what it could be. I mean, maybe Dallas goes on. I really like this team when they were healthy this year was a good team. They had an awesome offseason. The trades were great for them.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
There is a version of events that can definitely happen. So remember how everybody thought this and Nico was right, whatever that could happen. I'm open to it.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Dude, how about Allie LaForse on the call of the Mavs Celtics game last night, like having a moment where she was like, you know, everybody just wants to remind you that Saturday night's home game for Dallas, like these people have families. Be responsible. Right. I know. And like, this is quite the message. Anyway, having said all those things, um,
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
you still will never be able to defend the process. Right, the process is bad. The execution of this is indefensible. But then I think about Luca, like, is this this wake-up call for him?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
A lot of taxes. 13.5% state.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, I think so, over a million, yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
This does remind me of Roman times, though.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Sula, where he was like... I thought you were talking about Jim. No, there's no friend that's ever served me, no enemy that's ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
That is powerful.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Just finished the trilogy. But I can't get the authors on. I wanted to do like a three-part thing. Were they dead? No, I did Pax. I did Rubicon. I did Storm Before the Storm. So I just wanted to, like, you know, what I do is I chart it out. And then I'm like, which years am I missing?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
No, actually, when I saw the memes, I felt a responsibility.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
do your research i was like you know what like a lot of people think this is funny yeah but it isn't and if you look at like the different forms of government like is it better to live under the guise of democracy with you know ultimately a dictatorship yeah you know which again speaks to bread and circus do you feel strongly about the the republic versus democracy debate um
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You know, I don't know, man. I think at some point, I mean, not to go full dictator on you, but I think at some point somebody has to make the final decision.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Well, cause I just think that, you know, there's a lot of stuff in history. You go through it and you're like, you think this is a collective.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah. World War II museum yesterday in new Orleans went by myself was shocked. It wasn't busier with people from the media. Some people like to party with booze and drugs and women. And I like to party with history.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, he was sending me a picture of like a... Just an airplane? I took like 20 pictures. No, there's an airplane. There were several airplanes. You bought it?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Well, thank you, Ryan. The shirt, and that's my dog tag.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, that's an MRE right there.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
At first I was afraid I was, I would die. And then I was afraid I wouldn't. Oh, that's good. Anonymous Soldier World War II.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Anyway, how about that Central Division?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I like that. We just did this the other day, the surprise list. So who's not a surprise? OKC's not a surprise. Boston's not a surprise. Cleveland's not a surprise. I think Denver's the fourth team. When Denver has Aaron Gordon and this version of Jamal Murray, even with a diminished bench, it's like you can't rule, especially, you know, look at the depth, the extra days off.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Depth isn't as big of an issue. Yeah. Michael Porter Jr. is hit or miss to me. I think I like him less and less, even though he's so important to what they do because of stretching the floor. Westbrook has been really good in these minutes because of the energy. I think he's finally kind of accepted who he is a little bit so he doesn't force the issue the way he would with some of the other guys.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I think he's more differential to Jokic than anyone he's ever been playing next to. The great thing about playing with Jokic is, dude, if you just keep moving and cutting, there's free baskets all over the place because he's going to find you. So I would put Denver in there because that's just how special I think Jokic is. Memphis? No, I'm not quite there yet. Houston? No, no.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I have a hard time believing Houston will win four series. The Knicks? I probably have the Knicks over Houston, even though I enjoy watching Houston the most. As the taping of this, Houston's really going through a weird stretch. They haven't had Van Vliet. They have these awesome clutch record numbers, but they have some awful clutch metrics, which is really weird how off the two things are.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And I wonder offensively if they would have enough. to keep up with some of the other high-profile teams. But one of the questions I have about OKC is, will there be a second scorer that is more reliable than the first version that we saw in Jalen Williams, which is totally understandable because it was the first time.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, the rebounding stuff has been an issue now for a while with them, but I worry more. Their defense is so good. They are so smart. They made Wemby look terrible. It was very early in the season, but if you hold the ball and you wait around, against OKC, they just swarm you. And everybody's bought in. The culture of that team is almost like an unobtainable thing in the NBA.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
So I'm impressed with all of it. I just want the second or maybe even another guy, which isn't going to happen now, someone to be that reliable.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
third creator in those minutes where maybe one of the other guys has subbed out or some of the things bogged down but now I'm like nitpicking like I'm nitpicking with yeah there's little things that I can nitpick with Cleveland but I thought the DeAndre Hunter trade addressed probably the biggest issue is that when they start a game against the Celtics like Struce is getting defensive minutes against Jalen Brown or Jason Tatum because they want Struce's spacing right the rest of the assignments you're like you know what do we do do we put Mobley on a wing and feel like we're wasting him because you kind of have to
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
if Boston doesn't want to play with double bigs like they do sometimes. So I'm really, really impressed with Cleveland. And even though Hunter's expensive as far as what they'll have to pay him and all the tax stuff, it's a no-brainer. Not that he's a lockdown guy, but it's just a way better defensive option. Because playoff series are crazy, man.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You can see a game one result and everybody sits there and be like, oh, This is over. And then game two with the same guys plays out an entirely different way. So at least they have an option as opposed to what they had before.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I think after that, it would be a surprise to me if the Houston Rockets won an NBA championship this year. It would be a surprise to me if Memphis won an NBA championship. The Lakers, yeah, I think it's a surprise. To me, this is a reset. I mean, Doncic becomes available. You stop worrying about how you match up in the 25 playoffs, and it's pretty clear. And even if they spent...
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You know, real assets on acquiring Mark Williams, he needs to be better. Now, Graney's only played like half the available games of his career, but the defensive numbers for him are atrocious. And when you watch him, the good sign might be, I just, like, do you not care? Like, I know it sounds crazy. I want guys to care all the time.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
But is it easier to fix it when it's like, hey, your effort sucks.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, you're playing with the Lakers now. You can hide in Charlotte on league pass, but you can't anymore. What about the Bucs? I hate just missing Giannis just because I think on the best nights, he's the second best player in the world. He's been even better this year. Last year he wins the MVP in a lot of seasons, if it's not for this epic run that Jokic is on.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You know, they've reinvented themselves a bit. Kuzma's probably got a little bit more juice to him than Middleton does at this point. I think Middleton defensively in some of the wing matchups worries him, but Kuzma doesn't necessarily solve those problems.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I mean, that team was such a mess, and the minutes were all over the place, and the priorities were different than Kuzma. Like, when Kuzma's been good, he's pretty good, man. He's not the most athletic guy. It's not like you're letting him initiate a ton of offense, like, off the dribble on his own.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And defensively, he can probably get caught in some stuff where he's not athletically matching, like, another guy that he's assigned to, but... I like him because I think they can just count on him more than they could Middleton at this point. Right. But I'm worried about, like, the Dame stuff at the top. I think Brook Lopez, like, it's kind of over, man. Yeah, it's getting up there. Yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
So the Giannis thing is terrific. And, you know, I just fucking love that guy. I love, like – You knew when it was the Wemby matchup earlier, you're like, oh, I can't wait to watch this game tonight because he's going to be like, I'm going to go right at this dude. And Wemby blocked him twice at the start of the first game. And Giannis is like, all right, now I'm even more pissed.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Where a lot of guys like with his profile be like, all right, I don't want to get embarrassed. I'm not going to do that again. Like he couldn't wait. So I always kind of like – I think I probably stubbornly have respect for Giannis so much that normally I would keep him live in this. But I think the reality is the NBA story is the way they go. Like their window is probably already closed.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, he's everything that I would want. Like all the stuff that we've talked about with Luka and the funny part, too, is like there's been way more rumblings about Giannis's fragile future in Milwaukee than Luke. I mean, you know, the Luka thing was like, maybe, you know, oh, 26, this team's clearing cap space. All right, fine. But this Giannis stuff has always been.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
this weird lingering like, Oh, they have to do this. This is why they did the Dame deal. You know, this is why they did the coach thing. And you know, who knows? And would he ever say, Hey, I'm at this side of 30. Like I'm out of here because it doesn't mean it's never going to happen. But like the American guys are usually the guys that do it.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
The international guys don't again, an international guy at some point who's a superstar is going to be like, get me out of here. Yeah. Go ahead.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Isn't it funny that, I mean, it's like, okay, well then he can't win. He can't win at all. I know. I know. That's what I'm saying.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Well, there's definitely truth to him liking his role with the Trailblazers all those years. Right. And whenever you talk to people out there, and granted, the regime has changed over, but it was, you know, is he ever going to get a little, like, annoyed with all this stuff? It's like, no, he likes being the main attraction. Right. Like, everything's sort of on his terms.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Not in like a – like, I think the OKC stuff with Westbrook was, like, absurd towards the end where everything was so on his terms and they had just lost Durant. I mean, you had Biggs just getting out of his way so he could get extra rebounds. The highest, like, usage rate in, like, modern history.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And you start to realize, like, he still gets rebounds other guards will never get because he's so incredibly gifted, athletic, and his determination, all that kind of stuff. But, like, everything started feeling so catered to Westbrook. You're like, is this actually – The recipe for success. Now, that team didn't have any success in the playoffs. Dames certainly had a couple moments.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
The OKC shot once Paul George was there. The Houston series. There's just a lot of stuff in there that I thought was a lot of fun. They had a Western Conference Finals run that I think is one of those that falls under the kind of fluky category.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
It was the year before.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
So... I totally get your point. And, like, there was always this Bradley Beal thing that's very similar. It's like, this guy's not asking out yet. And then people go, well, you know, he's a pretty content guy, and he's pretty close to, like, qualifying for the five-year max.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
So he may just get that, and then he's going to bounce, and that's exactly what happened. So... I don't think you're wrong. It just feels so fucking unfair. Right. It's hypocritical. I don't really want to say, oh, yeah, this guy actually was a loser the whole time. You know what's crazy?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Imagine if he had gotten his way and gone to Miami. I know. Like, do you think Butler would have been like, okay, I'll chill out now without the extension?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
The one you can get on Dame for, though, and this was starting to happen, and I remember the first time it was explained to me, they were like, this is just the transfer portal now because people don't care about getting to free agency to maximize their opportunities or leverage or all that stuff. They're just signing the extension and then saying, okay. And then saying, I want out.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, we've covered this. Yeah, and that sucks. That sucks. Yeah, and he had four years to go on his, the same way Durant had four years to go on his when he decided he wanted out of the Nets and they wouldn't trade him, they wouldn't fire everybody, and then they had to trade him to Phoenix anyway, and they ended up getting a haul and
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Honestly, looking back at that, it's an unbelievable deal for what the Nets were able to pull off for a guy that's unhappy within 18 months of every place that he's gone. I was kidding around the other day, but I was like, who's been happier at his peak basketball moments throughout his career, Kyrie or Durant?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I understand the sentiment behind it. The four-year extension not kicking in and then saying I want to be traded here and I only want to go to Miami. Right. I mean, that's not a blast.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, 12 finals run. Yeah, when he didn't get jaded by it.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Best starting five I've ever seen.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Making sure. I just thought you were going to argue. No, I know. I was thinking, I don't know. Dream team.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Oh, yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, Rip.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I love that. That's not even the worst one. Remember the Atlanta Hawks team with all those guys? Corver? Yeah, Corver and Joe Johnson. They're like, well, they're in first place.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
It's pronounced Josh Smith. Smith. He was my all-time, like, he's just going to chuck a few threes. I think he was on Detroit by then. He might have been, yeah. Maybe like 27% from three.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I like those guys. That's a valiant flea that dare eat his breakfast on the lip of a lion. Henry V.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
A lot. You know what people don't talk about enough is Shakespeare's depiction of Henry V is so fucked. I agree. I totally agree. Yeah, right?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
That's good. Yeah. Because it's like, oh, Billy Shakespeare, he couldn't get it wrong. Are you serious? Yeah. Have you ever fucking talked to writers?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, when he was just straight-up efficiency. I mean, granted, he got a bit of a gobbed complex and just saying France was his and it was his right. I would love to be arrogant enough. Like, we're here Super Bowl week, and there's some guys you're like, we need to fucking simmer down. Like, cool daytime ratings.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I look at Henry V, and I think... Imagine just being like, hey, this isn't me just being a dick. It is my birthright. France is mine, God told me. How do you run errands that day with that kind of idea of where you are in the world?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
There's really nothing you could say. Yeah. Like, hey, this sucks. We're in the woods still. We're digging ditches and guys have malaria and dudes are dying and we don't have any food and we might have to start eating the horses. And I haven't even seen a boob in two years. Like, this fucking sucks. And he's like, don't worry about it. God said we're going to. Yeah, we got it. God's got it.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
God did. Yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Well, he did marry the daughter of the Mad King, which was arranged. He did seem to like her, though.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Totally. Beyonce and Jay-Z. Yeah. You're like, Kate's, you know, good for Kate. I think Kate Middleton's approval rating is through the roof. Yeah. But I don't know, dude. Henry V? Yeah. I just think it's funny to look at maps. You guys don't ever look at maps. Oh, I love maps.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You're going to have to explain to me. You're talking about maps.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Isn't that trump.com where you just pull Greenland? That's ours. You bring it left. That shit's ours now.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Do you? Yeah. Why not? Does Greenland want Greenland? No. No. There is something to be said. Well, I don't know. This will probably bring up something else, but like... Go on. When you read Henry V, you're like, we do invade each other less. Yeah, yeah. That's a positive, and that never gets talked about.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I'm shocked about some of that stuff from...
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Agincourt in like late 1300s early 1400s and you're like you invaded France with 2,000 guys and some boats like what the fuck like yeah imagine getting like we're good yeah like we're going into the whole country and the numbers were like really limited and then they started like going nuts I mean granted you gotta go centuries beyond Napoleon just being like let's go for Russia like
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
But, yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm just more top of mind right now after the museum visit yesterday and everything. But, yeah, I don't know that that – back to the Henry V thing. Completely misjudged. Shakespeare fucked him.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I don't feel bad not knowing that.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I think, I mean, if you want to be like completely serious about all this stuff.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
What flavors do you think they had?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Chocolate and vanilla in 1945.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Japan's resources. were strained pretty quickly.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
First time they'd surrendered in 2,500 years. It's crazy.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Well, he was called the God Emperor. Yeah. Another guy. Probably read Henry V. Yeah, he did.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, I was watching the videos about it yesterday, but I don't know. I mean, this is where being the war historian, like you could say a fact, but I'm going to go, I didn't know that. I'm the war historian? I didn't know ice cream. No, I didn't know ice cream.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I'm supposed to know all of it. I'm supposed to know every maneuver from the runways to Manila, the Manila decision.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
It's so good that we can't even do anything now with it.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
We need to take a moment to understand how good that line was right there.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
That's even the capital of the Philippines.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
But when Oppenheimer came out and like, you know, some people just can't, you know, they send a tweet and it's like, oh, we're celebrating this now. Like, do you want to fucking do this? Do you want to do this? Do you want to do this? Are we going to do this? You want to talk about the coast of China? Yeah. You want to talk inland?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Dude, there's video. They didn't show the video, but there are stills of like practicing bayonet.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
work with live chinese prisoners so look history is littered with all of this stuff but like the artsy person that decides they're taking this stand without ever reading a fucking book or deciding that they're just going to ignore like i'm not saying necessarily like who's right but who put you in charge of saying who's wrong right yep is uh cooper flag the real deal
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I haven't watched enough of them.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
No, that's definitely not true. I don't have a ton of time for college hoops right now. I've watched, I don't know, two full games. Boston College seemed to not like him a couple weeks ago. They were letting him have it, elbowing him in the face.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, you're right. It just doesn't feel, you know what I mean? That he's a main guy, though, for me, I'm just going to have a hard time being anti. Like, would I hate Duncan Robinson? I couldn't do that, New Hampshire guy. Duncan Robinson's a good dude.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Cooper.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
That'd be the first white American drafted number one overall.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah. There haven't been any good ones that I've heard yet, I don't think. I haven't heard anything that's all that great. I would root for the New England guy no matter what. But we, look, the white guys have had a weird stretch in the NBA. There was a time when you were like, okay, who are the five white American guys? One through five.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And like dudes would get to four going, is it still Doug McDermott? Who we love. Shout out to Doug McDermott. Yes, Doug McDermott. This is, you know, Trump's back in office. Flag goes one. You know, you got to wonder.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
That's true. That woman in the Walmart ad with Busta Rhymes around Christmas when she dropped the verse at the end. Yep. So I don't know where we are on the pendulum. It's all happening.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, well... Yeah, but the thing is, the more you really dug into Zion when he was at Duke, not that it was breaking news because everybody knew he was going number one, but I think for me there was this whole other level of like, oh my God, this is going to be awesome.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And the thing is, once he played, he was that dominant of a player, and you didn't really have to do anything with him except just make sure there was a little bit of spacing for him, which they could have with this new version of the team, but whatever. I don't think he's talked about...
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Like, we're coming off a Wimbanyama deal where the buildup to that, even though Flag has been on everybody's radar here for a couple years, and I think that there's the other two guys that are kind of part of the conversation. Like, you'll hear every now and then of somebody.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
So I don't think it's this unanimous praise, but if I'm comparing to Wimbanyama, Wimbanyama is the most anticipated pick since LeBron. So it's been 20 years. Yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
uh this is not one i have not watched him enough i don't feel comfortable talking about it based on what i think and i think it's been assumed that he's the number one guy and for good reason because he's side the size and the athleticism and a little bit more of the vision where it's not just he's a straight scorer but i mean look you've watched him more than i have he's he's very good he's very very good uh and i also appreciate that you were like hey i didn't watch so i can't i can't give an expert opinion we're the opposite i think you agree pft he's probably the best prospect ever
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Do you think that's sort of part of that prideful nationalism that you're feeling right now?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
That is interesting.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
He's huge.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
They're twins?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I don't know. Yeah, I mean, that's going to be tough. That's going to be tough. You don't know anything about Cooper Flagg. Let's ask about his twin brother. Yeah. No, I didn't know. I just always feel like no matter what, you know, your mom's going like, hey, your path is different. And, you know, you're special in your own way.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And you're like, yeah, my brother's going to be the number one pick in the draft. Yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Um, trouble. How? So I can answer it properly.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I'm going to sound like somebody who loves the NBA and therefore is going to protect it, but I think what I would do, because you know me, is that I would defend something against what I think are bullshit arguments. One, the first ratings quarter that was destroyed by everybody went up against all of our election coverage, and the most important election of our time was the tease, I believe.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Democracy was at stake. Do you realize I've been alive for every one of the most important elections of our time? Yeah. That's fucking incredible. I'd be that lucky.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I was there. I was there for that. And I was like, shit. And then the next year and four years, excuse me, the next election, they were like, no, this is. And I was like, I'm on the hottest fucking streak of elections of anybody you've ever known. So I think that that was a little unfair.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I think the three-point thing, even though there's nights where I kind of feel that way, I also don't miss Mark Jackson post-ups that took 17 seconds. Yeah. I think whenever people start comparing all these clips of what it is today, what it is back then, like, yeah, every Jordan clip looks fucking awesome. You know what?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
There was also a million other games that Tuesday night that sucked and weren't as visually appealing as that clip. Why are we comparing that clip to a full slate of games on a Tuesday? Yeah. I also think that there's a very like I've talked about this before. It's the polling of one.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And it's not just one, but it's still a really small sample size of people who are like, I haven't watched it since they did that bubble woke shit. And it's like, OK, is that true? Like in that moment, you went group economics jersey, which, again, was stupid. But you went group economics jersey and you were like, that's it. I'm fucking out on these guys.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Right. That person exists, certainly, and that person loves telling you that they exist and they've done all of those things. But what I would argue is, did that make you change a channel or did you already change a channel and now you love pointing to that as the reason why you've already done something? Same thing happened with all the Kaepernick shit, right?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Right-wing people going like, I'm never watching that sport again. And remember there was a bit of a ratings dip and there was decline and right-wing media was all over it being like, see, see, see. All right, well... At some point, there's going to be some ebbs and flows of ratings and all that kind of stuff. So look, if you tell me, all right, Ryan, compare the finals to 10 years ago finals.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Well, am I comparing it to LeBron and Steph in that window? I mean, you know, we're also talking about LeBron and Kawhi. We're talking about Steph going up against LeBron in that one where everybody kind of got hurt in the entire series. So is that the best way to do it?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I'd also ask people, like, have you ever cared about sports or games or teams, you know, today the way you did 20 or 30 years ago? Right. But do you care about movies the same way? How many times did you go to the movie theater this year? How many times did you used to go? Is there an appointment viewing on television? Is there anything that's like the Sopranos? So many options. Right.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Like, remember the Sopranos? You stopped what you were doing. Oh, yeah. My TV went out. Right. You make sure your food was ready to go, whatever you were grabbing, like I'm sitting like nothing is disrupting this moment. I don't know those moments exist anymore. So I think the NBA has some things aesthetically about it that are concerning.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I think there's some ratings Intel that is is a small piece. that if it were to continue is alarming. But I also think there's just so many people that love dunking on that league for a variety of different reasons that I think it becomes really skewed coverage. I think the NHL is down 28%. Is it too woke? Like, of course not.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
It is. I mean, that's why they're going to 18 games. That's why they were like, you know, Christmas football family. No, it isn't. You're just like, fuck the NBA, which is within their rights to do. I think at one point we'll have NFL on every single night. I think that's what their goal is and that's what they'll look to do.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah. Nobody's lost money on a team in like 40 plus years. They want to add more teams because people want to get into the business. The television contract was reported to come in like 3 billion less than it actually did. So maybe maybe looking at traditional ratings.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Like, as much as you can go, oh, look at that, or look at that number, or this product sucks, or all these different things, I think the global part isn't discussed enough. I think the new consumer and the younger consumer, the idea of sitting down at 25 years old and watching a two-and-a-half-hour game start to finish is, like, absurd to them.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
So I think there's a lot of factors here, but I think, unfortunately, the loudest voice is usually the one that already hates the NBA telling you this league is dying, and I don't think that's true.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, right. I mean, you ask that guy to be like, are you going to Vegas still? And he'd be like, ugh. Right. No shit.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I can never tell if I'm like the best taste, like I should, I'm just stop. You have the best taste. Um, thanks guys. If I am the one you should listen to or the one you should listen to the least, because I'm watching no matter what, right? This is my job. I have a good job. I have a good life. I'm lucky to have the life that I have. Okay.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
But there are times where when I'm watching all these games, there's all these stoppages, and they add a challenge, and they have the timeout before the three minutes that everybody's figured out and all this stuff. The dramatic back-and-forth moment – and it's happened in football, too, where it's like, is that the game-winning touchdown? Oh, my God, it's the game-winning touchdown. Wait.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Let me wait for a review. And now I'm excited. But there's no way the excitement after the delay of what you think has happened and you're seeing the replay and getting confirmation – There's no way that excitement ever matched what we used to have in that moment where you were like, this is – like, oh, my God, it happened.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And basketball, as much as I love the NCAA tournament, like, there can be a score and scenario where you get maybe that possession, possession, possession moment. But it feels like it never happens anymore in basketball. And I think that's a – except they just are going to tell the TV partners, like, yeah, we'll figure out a way to get another stoppage in there.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You know, college football, like, we can't call it the two-minute warning, but we'll call it the two-minute timeout. It's pretty good, yeah. Because, you know, we're our own thing. It's like, no, we'll just call it the extra stop because ESPN just renewed the package. Yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I'm up for any of the, the Elam ending thing, no relation to Matt. I thought like at first, like a lot of people were like, Oh, well that'll change everything. Okay.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Like I would love to have those dramatic back and forth moments. Like I think baseball may actually provide the best drama tension because you can't disrupt it the way you disrupt these game winning football plays and all the basketball stuff. So when I say like, I can't tell if I'm the best or the worst, like I can be on game seven and, And I'll know, like, here we get another stop.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Here we get all this stuff. And, like, I start dicking around. I'm looking at my phone. Maybe I'm, like, looking up something, like, what is DeAndre Hunter shooting? You know, like, I'm sitting there. And then I look up, and, like, four plays have happened because I'd already kind of, like, removed myself from paying attention to the game.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
So I'm like, if I'm doing that, what the hell is somebody doing that doesn't do this for a living? Right. Yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I think Charlotte's actually in a pretty bad spot, even though they've done a good job. Because they've got to make a lamello decision.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You know, I mean, I looked it up the other day. His shots per 100 is the highest we've seen since Kobe Bryant's in 2006.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Well, I think the Hornets are in like a weird Atlanta Hawks spot where it's like we have this attraction and we have something we can put on billboards and we have something that gets the fans excited and sells jerseys and everything. Make money. Is this really going to be a guy? It's never going to work.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, I think it's a huge corporate thing.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I don't go anymore.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
It's San Francisco, I think. Oh, yeah. Well, with the no game week thing, I did the live show in Utah two years ago, and then I went, why am I working? There's no games. Right. I'm going to take some of this time off. So I went to Aspen last year. It's pretty nice. Yeah, I've heard. Very nice. It's rich. Yeah. A lot of rich people, PFT. How was the powder? Is that a cocaine joke? It was. It was.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Trying to fuck with me a little bit.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I don't know, man. We're not even on a course. It's kind of like a mini Super Bowl week, to be honest with you.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
It's unwatchable. I don't watch it. I mean, I can't even tell you the last time I watched an NBA All-Star game. I don't watch it. I think it's for kids. I think it's for kids. I think it's for corporate sponsorships. I think it's, like, whatever we deal with every night of, like, your options in New Orleans for Super Bowl week. It's like, I can go to this party. I can go to this dinner.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And, like, there's plenty of shit I can't even get into. But, like, if you go to the hotel lobby at the Four Seasons, you're like, cool, I'm going to see, like, 20 people I don't get to see unless I come to this every single year. So, to me, it's a mini version of that for NBA people.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
complaining about the game it's just not fixable it's it's not fixable because these guys do not give a shit there has always been something about basketball that bothered me is that if you're good it's like lame to try at times like the guy who's really good in a pickup game that almost thinks it's insulting to try against you and you're like this is way more insulting than you killing us you're really good and now you're pretending you don't care just in case
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
somebody were to cross you up or somebody were to stick a three in your face, like this is your never look uncool moment. That's why none of the guys do the dunk contest. That's why some of the guys don't do the three-point thing.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Why?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
But he's way better than all of us. I could see him being a not-try guy.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I can't imagine how good he is. I mean, if you're good enough to walk on, or was it an offer?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
He's big, too. I just saw him in the hallway.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Wow. God, you're all over these. I just made that one up.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, they're at the gates, and it's like, no way you're going to be right. No way you're going to be right. Like the trade and bead thing, I got killed for. You were right. I haven't brought this up yet because it's Super Bowl week. Thanks for not bringing it up. It's the first time ever.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Sulk.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, right. That's what it was. Percentage of games that he's actually played, percentage of Super Bowls that Brady played in during his career. Yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
It was his 400th game that he missed. Oh, yeah, yeah. So they put the graphic up. When he got to 400, dudes were making a graphic like it was an accomplishment. I've always been kind of protective of him, and I was out. Once he started fallibating the Olympics, I was like, are you fucking serious, dude? I got mad.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I was mad at home by myself because nobody wanted to come over and watch me watch the Olympics during the day. Like, hey, you said something about maybe getting a drink one time. I was like, do you want to watch them play Serbia? It's going to be a good game. I got so frustrated.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And look, I think Embiid played for Team USA because he gets a gold medal, adds to the legacy, because it's probably not that likely that he's winning a title at any point. There's arguments that I would hear about Harden's meltdowns, Simmons having an absolute meltdown in that Atlanta series, just being shot and thinking, like, who has Embiid been able to rely on? But...
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You know, whether it's like there was a situation this week, like not this week, this season. We're going through all the hell stuff. And by the way, when he had been playing during that stretch, he didn't look right. Okay. Even though he's putting up numbers, he doesn't look right. He doesn't move unless he has the basketball. So you hope he's hurt.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And he was hurt because that's why he shut it down again. The newest news about his knee. And then I just like, why were you guys in a hurry to even do this extension with him on top of everything else? You already owe him. But when he basically like sat out the Cleveland game and then played in the Charlotte game, I'm like, dude, I can't do it anymore with you. I can't do it anymore with you.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah. I do feel like we're getting closer to the sit-down with whoever it is at ESPN. It's like a countdown. Maybe it's Malika or something. And it's MB sitting there in the stool, and it was like, when did you know it was overview in Philadelphia?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And then it's like black and white footage of like yelling at the ref or him yelling at a reporter or the quote saying like, I've done so much for the city. If you were to say this story, like which course it's on, I don't know that redemption feels like the one that's more likely to land on.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, I know.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I'm trying to be sincere and think about, like, have you? Dick to dick. I don't know. There's some pledging shit I'm not sick about.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
It's not going to be good. What do you mean? They're going to beat somebody in the play-in? Yeah, I mean, that's not if they're all healthy and they're all ready to go.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Honestly, even with all the Embiid stuff, because he's the guy, he's supposed to be the franchise guy, there's a bit of me, too, that's just so sick of all the Embiid propaganda people over the years where it's like, you guys are being such dicks about the Jokic thing when Embiid was never better than him. He deserved to win the MVP. I'm fine with it.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I never thought Embiid was the better basketball player. If you voted for Jokic that year for MVP, I couldn't necessarily tell you you were wrong. Like sometimes I still kind of think about like, you know, did Embiid prioritize the MVP? And that's why you felt like you went in that direction. And Jokic kind of not giving a shit the last few weeks of the season. Was that the deciding factor?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You know, I don't know. That wasn't an easy vote. A lot of the years for me, I haven't had a vote that long. It hasn't been Something where I'm like, yep, perfect score. Totally right. Zero arguments against any of this stuff. But that wasn't even Joel's fault as much as it was the people around him pushing this thing where it wasn't like just sticking up for your guy.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
It was shitting on Jokic so much. And that really, really bothered me because I can't understand how anybody could spend their life in basketball and watch these two dudes play and think that it's the same thing. And I also think the Embiid foul hunting stuff that... Daryl loves because he loved it with Harden and all these guys. Oh, look at your true shooting. Look at your efficiency.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Like, look at all this stuff. Look at your points per 100 and all this. It's crazy. He doesn't play basketball naturally anymore. He's always thinking about, like, how can he get the contact? How can he fall? Like, there's a very choppy way. That he goes about it, but then it's like, oh, he had 34-12 again. He must be fucking awesome.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And I think that stuff is easier to pull off in the regular season. I think there are times, even though he had that 50 against the Knicks, there were times he was not comfortable with the basketball late. He still stinks when a double comes to him. So, yeah, I'm over it. And even with all that said... Paul George is Tobias Harris with better branding. Whoa.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
But like Paul George, I know he had a better January, but he needs to be a dude.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
while Embiid is out through all of this and instead he's totally comfortable getting his ISO 17 footer up because he's so talented and it's great and like all the shit that he can do but like there's there's no like consistent flow he just like where's the aggressiveness like it's you're being tasked with get them through this really tough stretch and he wanted nothing to do with it from what I saw
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, and then Maxie took like 25 shots a game, and I don't think his numbers are a true reflection of like – I don't think he's a declining player, obviously. He was just going for it.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Are you talking Hoosiers football right now?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I did see the final score. I've never seen a final score more, to be honest with you.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
The most impressive final score on the losing side in the history of fucking sports.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Did you see when he posted his own AP voting results where he had Indiana slash Penn State 4, Penn State slash Indiana 5?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You haven't seen that?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Um... The play-in is not something I'm in favor of, but I think back to kind of the ratings discussion, like March Madness right now is one of the best products in all sports, right? We agree. It translates over to the person that would never care about this.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And even though the regular season of college basketball has, I don't even know what the declining numbers are there, but I mean, it's just true. Like I don't watch a ton of it anymore, but when I do dabble, I can't believe how bad the product is. There's no continuity whatsoever.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Uh, that's great. That's great. But it's, there are, there are nights where you're like, are they going to score? No, it's bad basketball. What is going on here? I, I don't really know. You know, you can't team build for a lot of the programs, right? At least a lot of the ones on TV with the higher profile players.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And you know, I, I like the one and done stuff because I just think it's the right thing to do. I think not having to go to college at all would be the right thing to do. I just think it's wrong to tell people like, you can't just go pursue this because I don't know. Um, That's a whole different discussion.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
But college hoops, when I've watched it over the years, even though I liked it more than the NBA when I was younger, it's a tough watch. But at least they have this moment. And what you're seeing with what Silver is doing is the play-in was we have this moment.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
um the in-season tournament which is now the emirates cup that's a moment it actually wasn't very disruptive and some of those games this year were terrific so i think what you your goal is like baseball's goal is okay make fun of how long our season is we don't give a shit we're selling 162 game inventory six months of the year and it rates really really high in local markets and all the local market stuff like this is a product they can put on and pull a better number than reruns a fucking wheel of fortune maybe i don't know the fortune's pretty popular
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
But with college basketball, they have their moment. I think the baseball playoffs are incredible, but that might just be their moment. You're never going to be able to compete with what the NFL is.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
But because soccer, I think Silver is so influenced by a lot of the international soccer stuff, I think that they want to have these moments that they can sell and package in a different way as extra inventory. So I don't like the play-in. There's going to be teams that have no business being like, you just had this season you had, and now you get another chance of potentially getting the playoff.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Like in the times that Steph's been eliminated, you're like, cool. Yeah. Great.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And like, oh, yeah, that's bullshit. That's like when they talk about expanding the tournament. You just go, no, you don't need to do it. But then the coaches argue for it. And it's like, do you guys want to argue for it? So you can say like, oh, you know, like the bowl. I made the tournament four years in a row. Give me my extension. Bowl eligible the last five years. You're like, dude.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
What?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Johnny's are really good.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Johnny's are good. People knock the schedule. Maybe you can help me out with Patino a little bit because – Family goes way back on the father's side of the Providence ties. And when Rick was the head coach of that Providence Fires team, this is a little early for you guys, Pop Lewis, Billy Donovan. I had a t-shirt that said Rick Pitino for president. I think I was like nine.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah, he was gone. Went to the Knicks. Family despised him.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And then he left the Knicks, right? Kentucky worked out. Worked out pretty well. Went to Boston. Family despised him even more after that. And then... Louisville... you know, Louisville, then everything else that goes with it. A lot of stops. I know you guys have some history with it too, but I would be tempted because I'm excited potentially about like the St. John's right.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Cause the guy can coach. I mean, he's unbelievable, but I did the Celtics documentary for bill, uh,
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
in hbo and i came in and did the patino years and i wasn't nice so i feel guilty about being in the documentary and then being offered patino and being like let's talk saint john's oh but by the way like i wasn't sweet about your celtics run that's going to be in the documentary so me and big cat had a similar situation it's i think it was nastier than what i yeah we said some things about his penis yeah over the years yeah i never talked about his penis in the doc
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Are you guys even going to do this again right now, or do you feel like you've worked through it?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Maybe I start with that.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Wait, which party?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah. Who would, who would laugh at that response? I don't understand. Like, how could you be that like offended by it or entertained by the absurdity of my, it is very weird.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You know who I really like is Aaron Wiggins, Oklahoma city.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Now he's not a superstar, not even close, but does his job. And there'll be stretches with the thunder where I'm like, God, I think I really like Aaron Wiggins, not Andrew. He was traded.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Aaron Wiggins. Speaking of trades and where Wiggins is now, where the rookie from Miami, from Indiana, he's been terrific since he's been a regular part of the rotation. I've been really excited about Scoot's resurgence. Okay. Tough first year for my guy. He was very invested, had some takes that were watered regularly, not showing a lot of life. That's a great way to put it.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
There's still some limitations on the rim finishing and not being like, you know, it's like, oh, he's not Derrick Rose. You're like, well, this is the reason why we were so enthralled with Derrick Rose because he was Derrick Rose. But Scoot's been really good. Scoot's put together like a nice five, six weeks here. What else are you looking for?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Are you looking for, like, Isaiah Stewart, who I think would fight people? I appreciate that. I love what Cade has done this year. I actually think the Wizards with Koulibaly and Bub and even George a little bit. I guess you could throw Sar in there a little as the number two pick. Like, they stink, but they play really hard. There's, like, a few guys in that Wizards team. I love Bub. Yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
So I don't know that somebody's like, hey, what do you want to do tonight? Hey, I'm going to stay in because we're still listening to Wizards play with a lot of activity. So let's do that. Been really happy with Mobley, but I don't know if he'll hit like some of the – like Simmons was so crazy about what Mobley could do when he started comparing him to Duncan or KG.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Then you kind of are like, well, I like him, but I don't like him that much. And then you make – makes it feel like you're dissing a guy that you actually like. Like the strokes. Yeah. You like the Strokes big cat, but the way PFT talks about the Strokes, you're like, Jesus Christ, the run wasn't that long.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
So you're never having him back on.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I'm not a Strokes guy, Russillo. That would be kind of nasty. You guys could LSU me. Oh, yeah.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I did go to the museum by myself, so I don't know that you'd be totally wrong on that. Who would be most likely in the media to have joined me if I had said, hey, do you want to go to the World War II museum? Probably me. Yeah, or I'd probably be the second or third option. No, I would never ask you to go there because you wouldn't do it. I would. It wouldn't be cool enough for you.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Did you win?
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I bet last night, live odds. What? I was watching Celtics-Mavs before I had dinner last night, and Celtics were getting destroyed. And normally, I would be like, okay, well, they're not going to get killed this bad. Let me look at the live odds.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
No.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah. And it works out. He just wins every time. Well, it wouldn't work last night because it was like... Plus six and a half, minus six and a half when I looked at it, and I thought the number was too small even though they were down 20. So I was watching it, and I waited, and I waited, and I go, this might be just a mail-it-in night from these guys.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And I ended up laying it on the Mavs, and they got up 27 and then won by seven. Celtics won on a 14-0 run. So you covered. I covered, but from the point of like I'm so smart to a 14-0 run where you're like there's still four minutes in and all the backups are playing their ass off right now and Dallas has already shut it off mentally. I'm with Hank on that.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I think if you watch enough, I would look for live odds on the better team that's down. They're going to make the run. Let me see if they were minus seven before tonight. Now I'm getting them at plus three. I think I just have to do that with a certain amount of time left in the game. but I actually hedged myself last night. It just felt good to be back in it.
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NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Okay. I have no investments in crypto. I've thought about it a little bit more recently, but I think everybody does. They're like, oh, it's at 100. Now it's at 106. Now I feel like a fucking loser. I had to get my brains beaten in a bunch of different times with trades for me to then become numb to the ups and downs or that stupid math that you do when you invest.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
We're like, if I had only done this and then I had this many shares, like I used to do all that shit when I was younger. Um, I've had some bad losses. I've had some nice wins. Uh, my wins have been bigger, like my takes, you know, my wins, you know, may not, you may not see how the path you get there and you're like, how the fuck's that going to work out?
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
But there's some, there's some losses I wish I could have back that ruined me emotionally for long stretches, but also when you're by yourself.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
and you day trade and you have a fucking horrible horrible stretch there's no one to tell you how insane you're being so you just accept your own demise it's like nico exactly it's just like nico he didn't have anybody to tell him he didn't have anybody to tell me like i remember i was on vacation once in hawaii with a date and i checked the pre-market to like three in the morning because i was so locked into it and i think i was down like half a million dollars because of just like this news and
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And I ran out onto the balcony and screamed, motherfucker, motherfucker, motherfucker, like a hundred times. And she came running out. She was like, did your father die? And I was like, no, it's worse. She's like, are you seriously setting your alarm to check the pre-market? So I was pretty into it there for a little while. Anyway, crypto... Tried to read everything I could.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Didn't understand in the beginning like everybody else. Now I fully understand it. The problem was throughout the entire time, the people I trust the absolute least were all the biggest people that were about crypto. So I missed the window or maybe the window still continues. I think the premise of it, its utility, all of those things make a ton of fucking sense.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
So I believe in it, except it has always scared the shit out of me.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I like real estate better. Some of you put your hands on. I think it's more fun.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Sopranos. It's free real estate. Even though people on the other side love touching a button and then it's done. Now I have it all. Whatever it says on the screen, I push a button and then I have it. I totally understand people are like, that's the only way I would want to do business. But
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I like real estate because I think it's a little like if I were to read all the materials and stocks and stuff and all the different options, I could read it all. I know that my full grasp of the understanding would be like, okay, so you now think like, I'm just do my own research. I don't need any help Schwab.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I just, I don't know that I've ever felt like truly comfortable going, Oh, I've read about all this thing. This technology makes sense. Like a lot of it feels like the winds can be common sense, but it's always common sense after the fact. at least with like different markets and real estate, I can go, this is a desirable place. I know what this house is.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I know because I've looked at this town so many different times or I know people that live here or whatever. So I just think that's an easier understanding, even if it's certainly not any kind of guarantee. I can't believe we're on this right now. Great job.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
The first 200 is where you fucking... That's the wax on, wax off phase in the movie.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Look, I love Chernow as much as any sports podcaster, probably in the country. I put myself, I'm a one seat of Ron Chernow fans. Okay. And I know when I dig in, I'm like, I've already read them all. I think Warbugs is the only one I haven't read. I'm like these first hundred, one eighty.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
tough sledding washington gets off to a burning start but he but you know like me these long-winded stories and answers i'm like i have to give you the prologue before i can give you the answer i'll get better one day i hope but no you won't i can't i don't want you to change yeah this is the best i can't the prologue is the best part i need to know what george was like as a rascalian
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I need to know what. And I think Chernow is the storyteller in the same case with Andrew Roberts and Napoleon. You've got to learn that Napoleon was an awkward, small dude, failed writer, maybe smelled, chicks didn't like him. No wonder he fucking ran a country and the world for a little bit there. What's more motivating than never having chicks like you?
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
He was. He's just tweeting away. B minus tweet, C plus stuff. Apparently, his writing sucked. Really?
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
All right.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Thunder over Boston.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
It would be seven. Thunder, get it at home.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Hank, what are your thoughts on that?
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Are you leaving tonight?
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Oh, you're out tonight?
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Is tonight the night? Yeah. Neil Young?
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You could do it if you wanted to. 10 a.m. Yeah, but I also... Perfect flight.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I can't imagine how hard you nap when you have kids.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
You know what the... It's got to be unbelievable. Yeah, and you turn your brain off.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
Do you ever wake up and go, I could see Hank's back there asleep. He might be in the night. He's on minute 90. I can't believe he was sleeping that whole time. Be honest. It doesn't mean you don't love your wife or your family, but do you ever have a moment where you're like, I don't want to go back?
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
This place can do it to you, but I think you guys have been here so many times, and I know we're wrapping up here.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And I love that you guys, I was like, those guys really like it. I'll check it out. But once you get, like, south of Poitras, all you have to do is, like, walk five minutes south of Canal. It's so cool. And you go, oh, this is why, like, these people that are, like, successful and, you know, Big Cat's known all these cats for a long time. And he's like, I got to introduce you to Russillo.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
And you see all these guys.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
No, I know. I mean, that was huge for me because I love chicken so much. But what I think is just so funny is like you'll meet all these people and then people think that New Orleans is only Canal Street and like bourbon. Yeah. And they go, dude, that place sucks. You're like, you know, there's other streets. There's other streets.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
I'm going to work my way south. Okay. All right. Which is uptown, ironically. I'm in.
Pardon My Take
NBA Preview With Ryen Russillo, USA Hockey Is The Best, NBA All Star Weekend + Who's Back Of The Week
All right. We'll see each other tonight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I guess I just wonder why Phoenix would flip the unprotected 2031 for these other pieces without some inclination of what's possible for him before the deadline. Unless it was just, hey, we're all in now. Like when you have Durant, you're all in. So is Beal better than mid-level players? Yes. He's really low on what the actual acquisition cost is because he's in control.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Because they have nothing and they're already all in with this group, I think the argument is that, well, what are we doing? We're going to hold on to assets in 2031. We have to find any possible way to upgrade this group because once you did the Durant trade, this is how you were operating.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I'd be fascinated to know what he would actually waive his no trade clause for. Because this is somebody who actually didn't go to Washington the entire time they lost. We kept waiting for that to happen. And then I remember hearing... He's probably just going to wait until he can get that five-year extension with them as the incumbent team. And he is okay with just kind of being there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And then I wonder if Beal goes, you think I'm upset about coming off the bench? You think I'm upset about taking 13 shots a game? Yeah. I like it here. I like Phoenix. My family likes Phoenix. Yeah, you can't. Yeah, yeah. You can't humiliate me. I'm good. I stayed with the Wizards for years on purpose.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It's also a great name, just to interrupt quickly, because after last night, I was like, will he have a man in his top 10?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
this is a compliment, but imagine when he's good. Right. Imagine when he can shoot threes. Right. And I don't know if he's, he's going to be like somebody you're really worried about, but there are things that he's doing. Like he was even the last, and again, you're right. It wasn't just about last night against Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You're looking at these rebounding numbers, but also, and I like it, even though it doesn't look great, like they're letting him get into kind of a pull-up jumper and it doesn't look very good, but, I like that they're allowing him or they would want him to make those mistakes because you're never going to develop any of that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You're never going to become the best version of yourself, the most well-rounded. If you're afraid to do that stuff in game, like it's the old Ben Simmons thing where it's like cool videos, bro, but you don't do any of those things that you show us in practice. Cause you just, you've eliminated those from your arsenal because you're just not comfortable doing
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And I love to see young players, especially somebody who is raw as him. And when you did the draft work on him, you're like, man, he's such an insane athlete. And this is why people draft guys like this. And then they get mad being like, oh, they just drafted the athlete.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And you're like, yeah, but this is the version of the best case scenario of if this guy ever figures it out with his gifts and the fact that he's a 1% athlete, I want him making some of those mistakes. I want him...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
pulling up off the dribble and maybe taking an ugly jumper right now, because the only way it's ever going to get better is when he's confident enough to actually apply some of this stuff in game. So it was when you sent me the list this morning, it was the first name I was looking for because, because the question is how high should he be? Right. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
The other thing about this trademark, it is just a hit list of guys I'm not a huge fan of. It really is. It's the Rosillo All-Stars. So Jimmy's the only one, if I knew he was bought in, I'd go, okay, let's do this. And you can figure out where he fits in because as much as they need Van Vliet you worry a little bit about loading up on a small primary guy throughout the course of the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You know, Brooks is so important to them, especially what he does defensively. And then Jalen is kind of like an every other night guy. And I thought he had turned the corner. You're giving him that? Yeah, I know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Okay, that's fine. Because as great as we are, as much fun as a man is and what he could potentially be, I still have a hard time believing you're running something for him with the ball in his hands to get you the bucket weight. I don't know that he's there yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I like the Cavs. I didn't think they were going to get off to like a 73 win pace. Yeah, it's starting to fade a little bit finally.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
No, because I think any of these lists, like the first thing I did when I got it was like, don't go, I can't believe you did this. Because whenever you have to do these lists, like good luck. Like whenever, even though when I did the top 100 that I then threw away, so I wasn't able to submit it for ringer.com. Like I had such a hard time with 11 through 30.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, because I'd go like, do I really think this guy is like a top 20 player? And you go like, okay, we'll come up with the 20 names ahead of him. And that's the weird part of the league ranking stuff. And granted, this is different because of age and contract and all that kind of stuff. But the names start to add up pretty quickly. I think maybe Matherin, just because I've loved...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I've loved what he's been able to do in big spots offensively.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Would you rather have Kobe White or Matherin? I mean, on your list, you'd rather have Kobe White.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Maybe there's somebody we can bump. I like Tari better than some of the names that you have in the top 85. Well, wait, hold that thought, because I have to explain.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I can see like, hey, what is he? And that's kind of the stuff we're talking about here with Thompson where I tend to, I don't want to say overvalue because I don't think I'm wrong about it, but I'm going to value the guys with the ball in their hands that can get me multiple points.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
like possessions like hey Cade like Cade Cunningham for me is somebody where you go hey fix this fix us right now yeah and clearly it's different with Detroit now that they've actually invested in spacing around him but we'll get to Cade when we get to him but like that's always going to be kind of like my default setting of can you get me a bucket or can you stop the other team from getting a bucket or really like it's that simple because that's where I still have some defense guys on this list that I'm like I really value the defense
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But I don't think it's a 50-50 split. It's not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You know I love percentages and splits. It might be 61-39 the more I think about it. See, what is wrong with you? It's early. 59-41? Giving us flat numbers like that? I was expecting like 63.5.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
This feels low, even if he hasn't been my favorite throughout all this. And I do wonder, too, when we were talking about the heat at the very top, what if Dame had gone there and it was the same situation with Butler? Because if Butler's not getting the contract, would Dame be going?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I just wonder if Dame at any point is going, this actually worked out better for me, despite the fact that Milwaukee, probably more based on health than anything, has been... when you bring in somebody like Dame to pair with Giannis with this. The Gordon one is tough, man, because Gordon with Denver is worth so much more to them than as soon as Gordon is away from Jokic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
He's just not going to be the same kind of player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So when you label this second apron thing, which I think you're absolutely right about like Przingis and Drew, and you wonder like after this version of the Celtics, if there's a second apron, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
transaction that happens there with boston depending on the season you mean in july you mean emphatically yes uh you mean next month don't you think gordon's a no because of basketball first and contract second if at all for yeah i don't i just think he plays too well with yokich and as long as as long as you have yokich you have a chance to win the title that contract's not prohibitive the murray contract's probably a little more problematic
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Levine should be behind him is my point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You're not wrong about that. I mean, the drop off from primary score to secondary like shot creation guy for Golden State is so significant. And that's why, you know, granted, yes, I love Steph, but when he has like bad games, they'll be this group. It's usually like LeBron weirdos.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You're like, oh, how come Steph never... I don't really love that content of somebody who's just done it the right way, has won multiple rings, first ballot, everything. It's like, can you guys shit on him for a couple weeks? You're like, you know what? I don't want to. And I'm not going to. He missed some shots. But what he is tasked with...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
to solve their problems offensively as the only guy, you know, other than the Schroeder acquisition. And I know like you could throw it right back in my face. Right, you could throw it right back in my face and be like, I thought you just started this podcast talking about you like bucket getters. And you're absolutely right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like there's moments with Levine where he looks like the most offensively talented player on the court. But there are just too many plays as a seasoned Levine watcher. There are too many plays in there that I think everybody misses. Yeah. where you're like, what were you doing here? Who were you helping do this? Why didn't you get back on defense here? And they're constant. He's flawed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
No, there's a lot with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I could just do it. I know. I thought about doing a version of something on my podcast where it was going to be one name, one game, where I just watch one player the entire time, like that Julius Randall heat game, where I just go, you know, I'm going to rewatch this and just watch Randall And it was when you really focus in the guy that you're like, how come this guy always has numbers?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And how come his teams are never that good? And how come he's so skilled? What else is happening around this? And you go, well, that's not good. And that's not good. And I talk about this stuff all the time with certain players. And I think Levine's the epitome of that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But at least we know at the highest level he's delivered.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But there are some scorers, when I think about their playoff resume, I'm like, so you've been doing this how many years and there's nothing significant? There's not a moment for me to look at and like, look, I'm with you. There's there's stuff with Jalen Brown and this year, the shooting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And but, you know, when when you're that young, like we've argued about Murray, when players who are like have had something really good in their past, have these like I even was stubborn about Kelvin Johnson. I'm like, is he just going to be terrible now? He's going to be terrible. And I feel like he turned the corner a little bit this season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Um, so even though the Jalen stuff, I would agree with you has been frustrating. At least we've seen that before. Like what, what are you throwing at me with Levine? You'd be like, remember, remember this series. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
They owe their pick this year, though, so they have to get into the lottery.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Eve's, I didn't expect this. I mean, he looks incredible. And he's so confident, too. There's no hesitation on him, his aggressiveness. I feel bad for the Pelicans front office. They're 12-35.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
They have done such a good job through the draft. Yeah. And they have just, you know, their main guys aren't healthy. So it's not a mystery.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I love Zoo. Okay. I think he fights his ass off all the time. There's some good rim protection stuff in there as well. I think he's a big part of why they win. I don't know if anybody will do this because I'm not going to do it, but I'd love to know the success rate of pocket passes because I think a few guys like did it a couple years ago. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And then everybody decided that when the big rolled and the two stayed with them, they were like, I'm going to do this sick look away bounce pass thing. and then it's going to hit somebody's feet or it's never going to work. I think the success rate on this pocket pass that every player is obsessed with off of two staying with them is so low.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But a lot of times, too, they're screwing the big by trying to even throw it to these guys. And Zoo, for the bigs that are out there, I'm like, I know what the play calls for and that you think this is the right move, but can the guy actually catch it? I'm a big Zoo fan, man. So I thought this was fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Jalen Brown, unfortunately, throws a lot of these. Like, hey, do you see limbs in the way of the pass? Yeah. Well, then don't make it. It's like, no, dude. Two stayed with me. Have to throw the pocket pass every time. Zoo number 60. James Harden, number 59.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. I like to have an open mind about a lot of things, but I think deep down my core, I know I probably already know which direction I'm going, but he just wanted the contract that he's not getting. So what, I mean, unless there was a promise, I mean, everybody knows Harden's not my favorite guy, but
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It feels like if Paolo's eight, Scotty Barnes shouldn't be 59 or 58. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, look, this is probably the wrong time to be ranking Scottie Barnes because it's getting worse. The efficiency stuff continues to decline over a four-year stretch. He's back under 30% from three. I think you always knew that he was a weird player, but in a good way because he could do so many different things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But yeah, you know, back to like the primary scoring thing, like I don't think he was ever going to be like a Cade. And even though Paolo, like people would get on him with his efficiency stuff, especially last year, like that was the big Paolo Scottie Barnes argument last year. It's like, yeah, but are you watching the shots that Paolo is tasked with taking? Right. All these other guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Please factor that in. Right. Like watch and see how difficult some of the shots are for this dude, because he's he's left with the ball to bail them out of every one of these possessions. So I think if you did like a four year thing of Scotty and, you know, again, it's your list. So I don't want to sit here and go through 10 straight guys. I'm happy to go to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
i kind of sided with harden on the end of the philly thing because why would he have taken the pay cut why would he have done everything he had done yeah and then it's like and i know philly's gonna say nothing was ever agreed upon you're totally wrong all right it's fine but he did something that didn't really make a ton of sense at the time to allow flexibility then he didn't get a deal so in that one i was like well
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but the thing is, I think his playmaking is actually pretty good. But it's just, we talked about Toronto this summer. It's like, look at who they're paying. Look how much they're paying all these guys. And there's nights where I like R.J. Barrett. But it feels like everybody's a slot up too high on a priority list for a basketball team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
If you were Lawrence Frank in Toronto called and offered Scottie Barnes for Norm Powell, you're not saying no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Do you think Miami would say no to Scottie Barnes for Tyler Hero? I do. Really?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
My fear is that because the numbers are down the way that they are and... You know what? Even if we didn't like Toronto, which we both didn't like Toronto this summer, and the record bears that, but you're right. There are some nights with them Or I'll go, oh, RJ's having a big night. And be like, oh, this is why they wanted Purtle back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But they've also had a really disjointed... They haven't had much consistency for long stretches this season of having a bunch of guys be available, too. Do you think the Celtics would trade Derek White for Scotty Burns? If Ainge were there, yeah. Because Ainge would just go, give me the potential talent ceiling. But you're taking on like 15 million extra a year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, well, then now we're talking second. Now you're second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, that's a different trade. See, I don't think there's any way. Here's whenever we're doing this exercise, right? Yeah. If right now is like the only time in the last couple of years that we would say Miami would turn down Scotty Barnes for Tyler Hero, is that when we're making a mistake?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Even though I'm not definitive either way, I can understand him being upset with this one. I mean, have you heard anything that you believe? That's probably the important second part. Have you heard anything that you believe that would let you think that Miami would have been in a hurry to extend somebody like Butler, who's 35 and misses a lot of games?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You want to run the numbers on it. It just, I was like, man. And maybe it's because I've been so used to the Paolo-Scotty argument. Like they're 50 slots apart on this one. And it's not like I want Scotty over Paolo, but...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, it wasn't very good this summer. And there was, there was a big piece on the athletic that spoke directly to that. And I know that like, as two guys that have caught the brunt of shit from Atlanta, I wouldn't even just say it's fans. It's like media members. It was like, Trey was their guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And then you're like, okay, did you see this piece where they basically said we need to be completely different with you? Yeah, that should matter. Right. And so you've seen it. You've seen it this year. You know, whether it's DeAndre being better in his role and Jalen taking on such a huge part of the offense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like, I think it was a little alarming that it took this many years for them to say, hey, Trey, you know what would be really cool is when you have the ball, throw it up ahead to see if there's an opportunity to attack. Like, kind of like... Yeah, use your teammates. You got four of them. You can use them at any time. It's not just in the half court.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
That line, you can give them the ball before you cross that line. No shit. And so, look, all that stuff was in there. And they were like, they need to reevaluate what this is. I mean, it's not like he's taken 12 shots a game as opposed to 20. He's only down like a couple shots there. The assist numbers are huge. There's also another piece. Like, I'm sorry that I'm just...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
reading it and I was sort of just laughing as I read all these quotes. It was like, you know, I don't need to just hang on to the basketball and wait for the assist play. I can pass it to someone else who then can move the ball around a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Right. So, um, I, you know, we both sneaky liked this roster for a while and I like it even more. I guess I'll never understand the Okongu thing of like, why every time I would watch it'd be like, so Clint's still the better player. option there. And then they made that change. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I don't, but I wasn't mad about it. I didn't go, this is outrageous. He doesn't play basketball. No. And I remember like last year when it was, I think it was, we already talked about it when we did the Denver show and I mentioned the Zach Lowe part of it. I wasn't being critical of Zach, but it was just this accepted thing because of who beat it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Don't send a DocuSign. I'll drive to you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I... I don't know what his value is, man. I just don't know that I'd want to be in business because why is it supposed to get better? And for all the shit that he's taken right now from missing games and the Denver history he's brought back up, I'd ask the people that are mad at him for not, did you watch when he was playing? And like, you can come at me with a box score and all that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
The guy doesn't move. Just go watch the Golden State game if you're wondering why. And he got his numbers. And he got his numbers, so you'll say, oh no, what are you guys talking about? No, watch the Golden State game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
If he's going to move that badly, my point is I don't even blame him for not playing. He was clearly marginalized when he was out there, and now people are mad that he's not playing anymore. And I kind of look at that stretch of going, well, if that's how bad it was going to look, then he actually needs to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
As frustrating as it is for everybody, he needs to be missing games to not look like that anymore because that's not going to work either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I don't even know how you would project to be like, yeah, no, it'll just be fine. The Olympics thing was clearly a huge priority to him. And I think part of it was you're not going to win a title, like, you know, win a gold. And, you know, he's had some big moments for him. But for somebody who just doesn't ever seem to be right, like, was that the best use of your time?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I'm a little worried because it kind of gets back to that thing of like, well, if you've shown us some really high level stuff, then I expect that you're going to get back to it a little bit. And he's 28. I would say there's some Keontae George possessions where everybody else is watching that I don't love. And then Sexton is talented enough to get his.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So now do they have like all these other dudes? And hell, when they bring in Sensabaugh, there's just a lot of guys that are like, it's go time. And is Lowry collateral because it feels like there's less opportunities for him to initiate? Or is that something that people have figured out with him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I still think that there is value for him. But I think it's a fair point in that last year it didn't matter. Whatever to the last dollar we can pay this guy is what he deserves and what he would get paid. And everybody else would be happy to give him that in a free agent world. And this season maybe makes you think of him as more expensive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
No, I don't think it's because here's an example that I would use. Like when we went back and looked at like Kaminga, right? You had Kaminga 83 and you had toughest omission, Tara Eason. I would look at like, okay, I've seen the ups and downs of the Kaminga thing for multiple seasons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So the idea that it's just going to turn this corner into something like really steady and that he could be a number two scoring option on an okay team. For $30 million a year? Yeah, that's now starting to feel like a bit of a reach with Kaminga. Where with Tari Eason, even though it's raw or whatever, like, He's out there just wreaking havoc on basketball games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And because I haven't really gotten to see the full-form version of Tara Eason, he would still be more valuable to me just based on the unknown. And then we know this game enough that the unknown always trumps the known. And that's why Castle is a hang-up. Even if it's not...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
like the best you know because whenever we see somebody young that's just good like what if you can do this what if you can do this i don't know if he's ever going to be able to shoot it consistently but i do know this the guy is what two years removed from high school and he goes at like 30 year old dudes like they stole from him he looks to kill guys so
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
That mentality and all of that, like having a dude out there that is completely unafraid this early. Like there's plenty of young guys you're like, okay, he's just uncomfortable and he needs to kind of get through this. There's none of that with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So even if the full arsenal of like all the offensive polish of even a guy like Vassell, I have no problem with him being this high because teams don't trade guys like that. I agree.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
No, I'm pretty sure I went over because it was such a massive jump.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think we would have seen this earlier from him, too. One, with health and just more opportunity.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
yeah it's starting to feel undeniable with him yeah now i i kind of just don't want some of these guys to get in his way because i think there's an awesome version of him that's just waiting to happen here and i i love him so if we ran a team we'd be calling griffin every 48 hours you're like i don't know maybe too many guys what about murphy josh hart i was shocked
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I might hang up on you and end the pod right now for having Bam in a group with Zion and LaMelo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It was the weird fan base.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I agree that I think there's a second team market for him just based on history. This is like Darko and Orlando giving up a lottery pick for him. It's like, well, this guy went really high. Do you remember this? I do, but wow, I didn't know it was that bad. No, it isn't because Zion's done more than Darko ever did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
that's a better one based on production because like the Zion thing was, was really good last year. And it's kind of like a little bit like the Embiid thing in that you go, well, if the market is this bad for this guy that I know I probably shouldn't be in business with, I'm still not going to trade him now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And then I think on the other side of it, not that this lasted very long, but the idea that because of the contract, like would they waive him and you go, no, no, no, wait a minute, wait a minute. There's a market. There's still a market based on like the second team going, like if it were Pierce and Antoine Walker, uh, you would be calling in to EEI being like, we should get Zion.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
That's the kind of structure of a team where you go, they don't really have that much hope and I'm going to be excited and it's going to be cool to have Zion in my favorite team's uniform.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Okay, but in a vacuum, like if you were running a team and let's... I wouldn't trade for them. Okay, but if somebody said you have to have one, like your owner calls, hey, I just bought the team. It's... It's Bezos. Bezos is like, we need to make a statement here early, Bill. Finally going to give you GM job. We're also going to have like behind the scenes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You think, you think hard knocks is all access. Yeah. We're going to be, we're going to be waking up with you. Okay. Right. 24 hour. Running a team. 24 hour VR. Right. So you need to trade for one of the two, LaMelo or Zion.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
which isn't even a great bet i thought the all-star voting thing was really interesting and then when i went to look at how it was happening when you sorted his position for available people to vote on he's the first option because he was leading everybody in scoring so i was like i wonder if that would happen i got to give tim mcmahon credit on this one because he was on with wind horse and bontemps and he was like well his style of play has been in preparation of the all-star game
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So he's a perfect fit. If he's named a starter, he ended up not being a starter. He should have been a starter based on what Mitchell Garland Brunson and all these guys have done. I think between the two, here's, here's the issue. Wasn't just the BAM issue. I think that Zion and LaMelo should be behind group G. I think they should just be behind it because if somebody offered LeBron,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You might be right about that. And I think there's there's a bunch of different things there that I like. I've never been special enough to compare myself with Jimmy Butler. Right. Like I and I'm not I'm not saying this because whatever our dynamic is, but your career, like I think at times you have been special enough to probably get away with it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Right. Because, I mean, even though you can't trade Trey Murphy for Zion, if Trey Murphy were offered for Zion, the team says, yeah, we'll turn the page on this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Okay. SEP and Rosella, she'll put me to sleep. That was such a sad day in my career. I was in the car driving home. Listen to Mad Dog. He said that? Yeah, he said it on the air. Mad Dog shit on Van Pelt and I. And I was like, I would leave ESPN right at four. I'd be driving to the gym. I would listen to a little Gottlieb. I'd check out what the dog was doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And Dog was like, that's my favorite show. Let me just sleep. There's no energy on that show. And I was just like, fuck. I was going to do another Eagles rejoin from Scottsdale. I was pissed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But, you know, if the rant were offered to the Pacers or Halliburton, would they just go, yep, no problem, and we'll just have Nembhard initiate everything?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
easy to ramp may just not be into it later on. All right. That's fine. I love, I love this group. Cause I think this is where it really starts getting hard. This is where all the years, all the tape for you, bill is showing up because Kyrie, this is maybe the highest he's been in a long time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Mic'd up. Just leadership pouring into your ears.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Right? Well, yeah, I think we're coming up on, what, two years of him being trained.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It would be a good 30 for 30. You know, the Jalen thing for Durant, you think Boston says no?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It just feels low for Jalen. And I think because of this year, he's getting dinged too much. So you put him in the 20s? Yeah, but I like the group that he's in because Sabonis is incredibly, like the stats with him every single time. I don't even know that I blame the guy from Turkey for voting him for MVP. Um, I know he wasn't from Greece or something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like he might've just pulled up and gone like, look at this plus minus shit. Like, are you kidding? Like that has to be the MVP. 15 rebounds a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Okay, but we were doing it before. So what was the Jalen deal? Five years what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, right. When the first quote came out, when this thing first got picked up, it was like Jimmy hasn't even started yet, which I was like, yeah, because we know the deal. You know, I think a lot of this stuff is like personal equity where like Tim Duncan ever had a problem with anything. I think we'd all immediately take Tim Duncan's side. I guess you just go, whoa, like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Because we were talking OG and Anobi. We didn't really get into it. There's part of me that will always think like you had to pay OG Ananobi five years to 12 fully guaranteed and give him a player option on the last year. And statistically, there's some stuff with him. You're like, how does but when you watch him, you appreciate him a little bit more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Certainly when he's been more available, which I think has been a fair knock on him in the past there. But you're right. It's still 75 million light of what you're paying Jalen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
That's alarming for anybody. Right, but the cap's going to go up at 65 million. As crazy as that number is, it's 65 million for him at 32. He's going to age well. And at that point, it's under 32% of the actual cap hit. I hope he ages well. I don't like the fact that he's fucking jacked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
He was a small forward. Is Kevin Willis first team all-time? Oh, yeah. Looks like he could play right now. That's always the Fred Lynn thing when he stops by Nesson once a year. It's mandatory. It's mandatory that anybody that ages well, he can be 104 and be like, that guy probably gets you six innings right now. Right. You just have to make him be skinny. It's just if you're skinny, they say it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Towns has been great for them. Completely won the trade. Still going to be a little bit worried about what the defensive alignment stuff might be. But when they're rolling offensively, it's just an awesome one through five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Nope. I don't think when, you know, as we get to the rest of the list that I've seen here, so there was nothing. I mean, I always could pick at anything. I guess I'm just kind of wondering, like, what is Ja right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Tim Duncan's upset about something. And with Butler, even though I think there's a, there's a version of the Chicago events where I would understand him. I thought the Wiggins towns thing at the time was funny. Cause I don't think he was wrong. Philadelphia decided to go with the young guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Really? He's missed 19 games this year. He played nine games last year. And we know last year was a mess for a bunch of different things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
He's definitely a... Because Memphis is on whatever priority. Like it's easily a top 10 team for me now because I just am like falling in love with Jaron Jackson in a new way. Like I always appreciated him. But now like this year I get like excited to kind of see like I wonder how they're going to use him I love Jaron Jackson. So there you go. And you're right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like there's nights where I go, oh, like, shit, Jaws and playing again tonight. And so when you look at his style of play, and I know he's talked about, like, I'm just not going to be doing the same type of stuff that he's in the second year of a five year deal for one hundred and ninety seven point two million. But it is that two major incidents.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
This is a lot like some of these other guys that we talk about, whether it's Trey's value to Atlanta specifically, LaMelo's value to Charlotte, New Orleans going, look, if Zion's not worth anything on the trade market, we might as well just ride this out again and see that if he's healthy because the best version of him, we can be a team that, I don't know if dangerous is the wrong word here, but you understand at least a path of if we have all of our guys and...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
we can get frustrated, we can get impatient, but so many of these teams just kind of default to patience that Ja's probably a hang-up on almost 90%. There's probably a few guys ahead of him that are hang-ups, but I also can see people making an argument that at 23, he's too high because of availability.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, and Maxie has missed a little time this year, but those are the two that I put next to each other. The contract's the same. Maxie's only on the first year, but it's five years 204, like I said, versus five years 197. Maxie played 60 games last year, 70 games the year before that. He's played 37 of 44 this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So every exit, there's some drama, but with this, there's another part of this that is just the reality of what's happening. This new CBA, when we first talked about it, you're like, man, this kind of looks like a hard cap. Yeah. This looks like there's really limited flexibility. I think another motivation behind some of this was that, hey, guess what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
His shooting numbers are down, but really that to me is a product of him going, okay, Embiid's out, and I'm just going to force the issue, and he's taking a million shots. He's taking more bad shots than he normally would. So I don't look at his declining shooting this year as this alarming thing. I think it was just the shot difficulty.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I mean, I could ding you because of the hand surgery, but based on everything you've read about it is that it's pretty straightforward.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
When he when he had the opportunity to talk about the trade market, he did the exact opposite, did the exact opposite. Bobby Marks brought it up when we had him on not that long ago. And it's like, this is what you want. This is what you want in the face of your franchise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
This is the person that looks at kind of this lifetime professional relationship of like, hey, what's the best way for me to handle this versus the worst way? And the worst way would be like Anthony Davis clearly did it because he learned it from watching LeBron.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I just don't think, I just think it's a ridiculous way to like operate as if the front office is sitting around and be like, Hey, do you guys want to be worse or better? Like, I don't know. What about you? Like, what do you want to do today? Ah, I don't know. Let's get lunch and then we'll think about it. And then it's like, Oh no. the player said he wants us to get better. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
If you have a four year extension about to kick in and you want to ask for a trade and you want to ask for a trade to like one team that's already pretty good. We're going to set up something that not only curbs spending, which is the primary motivation behind this, but we're also going to make it really hard for you guys to decide like, sorry, I'm just out of here now and you have to do this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, that, that does it. Yeah. Let's get fine. We weren't, we weren't going to do it. We actually wanted to be average, but now, and usually that means you're forcing the front office.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
If you have leverage, if you have an upcoming contract, you have all these different things, you're probably forcing the front office and ownership into doing something they don't think is the best thing to do long-term. And, you know, LeBron's never care about any of the draft picks anyway. So I think Davis is just basically saying the same stuff as him. So yeah, there are no lines thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
There's there's I don't know, you know, nothing's impossible, but I don't know if that day is ever going to come.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I just think he should be up, man. I'm a huge Booker fan, and I think it's been a bit like some of the stuff that we've seen. I think there's certain guys from an efficiency standpoint, we just talked about it with Maxie, where I can handle the efficiency being dinged a little when I feel like you are tasked with having to get your team out of so many bad possessions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And when I watch them, I think he's still... he's still the guy I trust the most on that team. So if that, I mean, let's run through it. Like, you think of Jalen Williams? Well, the Jalen Williams contract thing with OKC, I'm going to lose because of the flexibility and all that kind of stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, the contract, I can't win it. I'd rather have Booker just as a basketball player. I'd rather have Booker playing next to SGA right now than Jalen Williams. I don't even know how anybody would debate that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, when you look at who, they'll either attack, the other team will attack Wallace if it's a size thing, or they'll go at SGA because it's like the best of the options, you know, so you can avoid Dort or Caruso or even Wiggins, who I think is one of my favorite like underrated players in the entire league. I like them too. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And I think that a lot of star players, it's becoming a wake-up call. And when you're 35 and you miss a lot of games and your personal history is that it ends up in some sort of bullshit thing that's a distraction for the basketball team. Like, no kidding, there's not a great market for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I would trade him for Booker. You would? I would. I think this is where... I mean, we raved about him at the beginning, so I don't think anybody's going to, but he's 19% from three first career. Kawhi was 38% his rookie year. I think he was 38% his second year too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I look at Booker as a top 10 bucket getter, and we've seen it in the playoffs. We've seen it deeper in the playoffs. He's 28 years old, and he's a motherfucker in the best possible way. And not in a way that distracts him from the task at hand of the game, but I don't think he's afraid of anybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think when his, his level of like shot creation and scoring in huge moments is there's not 10 players in the league that are better than him at that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Right. But it's kind of the weight of like, how often would we have ever said no to Booker for Amin Thompson? And it's like every day except for the last 12.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
To carry this offense, um, back to the first part of this, to be able to do this, I still would like to know over under, if I said it at five and a half number of games, Monte Williams is watching the post Pistons taking the over the under, uh, way under, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You don't think he's watched six Pistons games? Just out of curiosity, you don't think he's checked in twice a month?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You would say no. Let's see. This becomes a Cavs thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I know the shooting number wasn't great. It's the only dude that I've seen be like, to your point, fuck him. Yeah, it's like, fuck them. I mean, I haven't seen that since Scoot in that international game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I don't know. Come on. They'd come over to my house and be like, is he sleeping? Uh...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I'm glad. I was afraid. I was afraid you were going to do Jaron Jackson in the 20s because you get in his case with the foul trouble and the rebounding.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
When you think about what he can do offensively and the different ways that you can use him, I've never been as big a fan of him as I am right now. I voted him as an all-star starter, and I know that wasn't popular. Did you? No way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, very few media members agreed with me, but there was still like when the votes came out, I was like, am I going to be the only one that did this? And I think there were seven of us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I was that on the fence. You know, we're all impressionable to a point too. And it just, I caught more and more of him during this. And then you back up and you look at the numbers and then you think about what he does defensively and all these different things. And I was like, I think it's close enough. And, um, you know, standings isn't necessarily my tiebreaker.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And I think that'll not be a tiebreaker when it comes to the MVP vote. If we stay on the same path, uh, and i you know i think i i think that durant like the default and lebron and all that kind of stuff like hey it's the all-star game it's about the stars and that's who fans want to see like i i wouldn't get mad about anybody doing that if it's close right yeah if it's close
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It's yeah, it's minus 4.6.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I don't know why they'd want to be in the Jimmy Butler business. I can't dispute the fact of whatever the trade market was for him versus now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Super impressed with them in person when they house the Celtics. I know people can point to the Celtics, what was it, five and seven? But I just hate how everybody just throws. Anytime any team loses, you're just like, oh, back to back, oh, look at this stretch. And I understand it, but the Lakers control that game from the jump. And it's very clear.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I thought they were really physical in a way that, was, was like inspiring. And not that I went outside and started, you know, fighting people, but I, that would've been awesome. Was well, I wasn't that upset. I wanted to get home and get something to eat cuz it was late.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But I think D'Angelo Russell just being removed from all of the possibilities and all the possessions and all the stuff that he does that may not show up like, oh, look at the shooting numbers. Like, oh, look at this. And he has a better net rating than LeBron, all these different things. It's like, yeah, man. It just there's just times where, you know, like, what the hell is he doing right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
it's it's diminished because you're like here we go again and it's all fresh and when it's actually happening and then you have to sit in their front office and your ownership and your coaches and go like like i like the memphis basketball part of it but then when you hear the quote being like don't send him to memphis like anywhere but memphis right so if you're
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And so their best spacing closing group was their worst defensive perimeter group. Yeah, they were kind of stuck. And I think removing that removes some of the stuff with them being stuck. And I, you know, it's weird with them because I kind of like them. But I also think like the standard is that when they're not a true title contender, they get so dismissed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And then we're just like, oh, they stink. It's like they don't they don't stink. Like there's seven guys there that I kind of like. But then I have to think about who am I picking them against in the playoffs in the first round? And that becomes more challenging.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
The other hope is that LeBron defensively is going to be a different version of himself in the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, it's terrible right now, and it has been.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I mean, there's just so many moments you can look at and be like, well, if he has to move, it'll be times where he'll help to where the help doesn't need to be there, but at least it looks like he's defending somebody, and it's like, okay, but now you just messed up the entire rotation of the stuff, and I get it. He's 40 years old, and that's why there was that weird stretch
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
like 10 games in or something where they were winning games and he was playing out of his mind and his intensity. I was like, what, what is this? Like, are you going to try to keep up this kind of pace? Like this doesn't make any sense. So that actually is a positive in that. I wonder why,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You gear it up, you have a little bit more of a break during the playoffs if you can see a more engaged version of him where defensively he's just trying to survive the season, play as many games as he can, help them be kind of a mid-seed team in the West.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I still think some of their best offensive possessions is when he's initiating it because it would make sense because he's so smart and he's still so good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
memphis and you're like hey we're pretty good we're not great but we're pretty good so yeah he raises our top five ceiling which i think a lot of teams just do like hey if these are the five guys are rolling out there to close the playoff game this is better than the five we have right now it makes sense but if you're like what if he opts in at 50 million and then he's 36 and we don't give him an extension so even though i there's not there's only one team right there's well you have to be desperate to do this
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Think about it, though. How much easier is to move when you know where you're moving as opposed to having to move in relationship to the other person moving where you have no idea where they're going. So when he knows everything that he's doing, it's still incredibly impressive. And so that window of when he played that hard,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Even though I was like, man, this dude is like, it was a bunch of games in a row. I was like, he's really going for it. I wonder if that's actually something to look at. We were like, okay, well, at least that had happened at some point this season, even from that time on. Yeah, I guess it's been a little bit better lately, but there was a stretch. We'll see.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I don't think so. Okay, good. And it's that stretch. It's that stretch last year. I think he's another guy that you have to factor in who was available around him. Orlando, statistically, so bad offensively. And it also speaks to losing Franz for that long on top of losing Paolo. Yeah. So I think there's a lot of people that could try to throw it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And he's had some dud of games, you know, some of the shooting numbers since he's come back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
What I love about him is that I know he can fill it up, but he also wants everybody to be involved. And that's why I loved him at Duke. It's why I've always argued for him is that, you know, the difference between Jalen Green can't see the way Paolo sees the game. And that's why I'm a Paolo fan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but it was going to happen in the Olympics leading up to it. After his run through the playoffs, he was like, I'm the number one option. It's like, or. Yeah. Or you're going to be watching.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Giannis is better. Stop. Sorry. You're going to be so happy right now. Giannis is better than Tatum. Tatum is the better value.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
No. Giannis turned 30 in December. Tatum... Oh, shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Tatum turns 27 in March. I didn't factor that in. So when you sent that, I was thinking maybe you were doing that on purpose because people were going to give you shit for the Tatum part of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Listen, even the great ones make mistakes. There's not been a day where I thought Tatum was better than Giannis. No, you're getting four extra years. And I'll tell you, Tatum this year, man... I think he's incredible. Couldn't agree more. The numbers may not scream it at you if you're not paying attention. but to see what he is doing to some of these defenses and what they're trying to do to him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And like Houston last night, the entire thing was Blitzen, double him, and he was still turning the corner on some of these traps. And it wasn't like he was scoring every single time, but there's not something that just goes, oh, wow, look at this jump, look at the shooting number, look at the scoring, because the shooting for the team is down, which is another part of the Celtics thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
This is the best Tatum's ever played. I've never, you know, much like I was talking about with Jaron Jackson, like this is the best I've ever felt about Tatum and the fact the age thing here is I think he actually should be ranked ahead of Giannis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
No, that's fine. Although there's an availability thing going on there where it's not. That's why he dropped.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So he's number one. They're like, no, we were calling about a three-way with Krejci.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Okay. I... I don't know where this Jokic thing is going to end up all time because like this... This stretch is...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
like so ridiculous and that's why when we were in denver i meant this like i hope he gets another one so that the simpletons are allowed to accept him into a higher tier and i know that sounds like shitty for me to say but i just get so tired of like when i look at how people rank stuff like do you really want to be this simple you just want to count stuff Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like that's all it ever is to you is that this guy was good because of this and this guy was bad because of that. Then what's the point of watching any of this stuff? Having a lot with college football, I thought this year too. And I really hope like Jokic gets the one that allows him to be talked about in the way that he deserves to be talked about because of what this stretch is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Westbrook, Westbrook. I was thinking about this the other day and I don't know if this is going to work, but like Westbrook's your buddy from home that just, you know, has it dialed in and everybody knows the routine. You know, the girls probably maybe liked him when he was in high school or whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But then if you bring him to like LA and you've been living in LA for a few years and you should be like, Hey, look, dude, just so you know, like, It's going to be a little harder out here. Yeah. And they're going to be competing with like different dudes. And like, it's up to you to accept the fact that like, you're not going to get into some places and people are going to big time you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And that if you recognize a guy from a TV show and you tell him that you're a big fan, he's not going to talk to you and he's going to walk away. And like, they're just going to smell the non LA on you and you'll have to adjust. And some people leave and never come back because they hated their experience. And I think Westbrook showed up to Denver being like, I do get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like I do, my hometown stuff might not work. I find Westbrook in this run funny because he can be almost too deferential where he'll like want to get it back to Jokic in a spot where it's not even like a great catch for Jokic because Westbrook doesn't want to do all the things that he's been criticized for doing in the past. Now, I still think
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
there's a version of this with the spacing with Gordon and Westbrook to close like a playoff game. Like, yeah, I'm allowing like, is that actually going to happen? But they needed him. They needed him. He was cheap. He was, and he's giving them like value minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Westbrook's really appreciated, though. He's appreciated more by players than he is by those of us that don't play. Because I think they look at what he did at his peak, and there is a respect for him that we probably don't understand as much. But you also realize with Westbrook, which version are we getting? Because the L.A. thing with the Lakers was a disaster.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And I think he resented so much of the dynamic there, which I can even see his...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
true but i mean it's not like he like his style of play was going to lead to oh this doesn't work like once again the players expect to be gms or sometimes i'm like do you not watch league pass like how do you not understand like how this is going to clog up some of the things that you'll want to do like but it doesn't explain the clippers thing last year how bad he was no because when it seemed like his career was over right the dallas playoff series when he decided to like prioritize just
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
being pissed off at everybody and taking himself out. Huge spots where you're like, what are you doing right now? He's a pissed off maniac. Yeah, right. You're getting us any buckets or anything? No. So now we can't even trust you to be out there. So you would think that it'd be easy for somebody to go, hey, look, all you have to do with Jokic is just cut, man. Be ready and cut.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And when you think he doesn't see you, he actually still sees you. So just cut.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And Yoko finds him every time. I still will worry, though, because there's times where you can see, like in a game, or if he has like an open look from three in the corner. And I know the corner numbers are really good, right? But... if he clanks it in a big spot, like the next time he may get that catch in the same look, you can see him just not want to, I've seen that happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So I don't know if there's numbers that would tell me that it's, it's true, not true, but I've seen him where it's just clear as day. Okay. He doesn't want to pull the trigger on this. And I don't know if it's like, hey, I just bricked the last one and this is a big spot. I don't know if it's him being deferential of like, hey, let me get it back to Jokic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I wonder with the Jokic-Murray two-man game in a playoff series when you have Gordon where you have that spacing decision that Minnesota always messes with where it's like, hey, put Rudy on Gordon because that way Rudy can freelance off of him. That gives Nas the Jokic matchup that Cat did so well with last year. Can you run the two-man game if Gordon and Westbrook are both on the other side?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And are you going to start dealing with some real spacing issues?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
That's the only thing that when I watch it, I go, I wonder what that'll look like then. But up until this point, it's been, to your point, for a team that we were like, where's the depth? Just his energy and even like a diminished version of Westbrook athletically when he starts going and he realizes he's going to get the ball back because Jokic is just that good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, it motivates you to be be like involved in all of this stuff. Like, hey, if I keep cutting, I get just all these easy baskets because I'm still so much quicker, even though it's later in his career.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, Wednesday and then a loaded football show on Friday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I just would be scared to death if I'm Dunleavy and I'm Lakoff and I'm going, okay, so we bring him in. Everything you said made sense, but his agent's like, okay, so what do you think about tacking on those two years for him? It's a no. And so if it's a no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
If he was 32, he doesn't play enough for me. It's a no. And you're right about the basketball part of it, whether it's them, whether it's Memphis, because it does raise your student. But if I have to sit there and be honest with the people that are in charge of my employment, right, if you're working on the front office side of this, answering to your owner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And going, yeah, let's just trust that it's going to work out with his track record. I wouldn't feel good about saying yes to that. I would just go like, look, it'd be one thing if he was younger and you go, hey, maybe the West isn't and it isn't as deep or doesn't feel as deep halfway through the season as we thought it would be this summer. OKC still looks like a monster.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I mean, we can run through every team and I could tell you concerns I have about all the contenders, but. It would have to be more of like a guarantee of what's possible. And even adding him doesn't like, what does it actually guarantee about what Golden State can do in the playoffs?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Let me throw something at you here, because you mentioned it with the Riley thing, and they felt really betrayed by Riley being upset when Butler was basically like, if I was playing, we'd beat Boston, we'd beat the Knicks. By the way, they weren't beating that Boston team last year or last playoffs with Butler. No chance. So it was kind of a crazy thing. And then I think about Riley's age.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
He's the same age as my dad. I'm like, imagine if my dad had to do a press conference about a player. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I went to go see Gillis and Bill Burr last night for the fire benefit. And Gillis had this whole routine of like, you know, Biden didn't really get enough credit. Like imagine, imagine if you had someone in your family who was 84, who had to like go out there and speak to the world. It actually could have been that much worse.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Now look, Riley, at no point do I think like what's going on with this guy. But he deserves like Riley's done enough in his basketball life to have this stance. And then when I think about like how other teams operate, everybody operates in absolute fear where they have to when their best player goes off, they have to find some way through PR to craft some way that they're supportive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But it's like, so what, so what happened? What if Riley had said nothing? The bottom line is that they didn't give him the contract extension. They probably be in the exact same place. So like, you can tell me that it was insulting or that that was the thing that I don't, when he didn't get the extension, when he felt like he was owed this, like why?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Cause you went to the finals two years ago, which was like really fluky. And what five years ago last year, which is, and he doesn't play, he doesn't play enough. And look, when he was playing this year, You could see, you're like, what's going on with him? Before this even got publicly bad, and it's like, so you want the extension, but you're going to mail it in for stretches?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
He's been really good. I want to back you up on that. Over the years, the text thread, when he has a very specific Wizards observation, it's usually always on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, that's what it sounds like. I mean, at some point here, we have to mention Colette Ware.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
That's fine. And when he finally got minutes that one game where he was really decisive and you could just see all the special stuff with him, that he is a really good athlete. And then when he was coming off the screen, it was actually a little bit like Bronny in that Bucks game where it's like, okay, well, if he's going to be decisive, I didn't ever expect to see this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And maybe it's being decisive. You can't just throw away all of Bronny's attempts and say, oh, they were down 30. Who cares if he's decisive? Because he was decisive earlier in the game. Yeah. Um, but Reed had that game where he went off and you could tell he was reading how they were playing him coming off the screen, where I think when you're a young player, you're not getting any minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You're not even like looking at that stuff. You're just going, all right, you know, what's the read and should I just get rid of this ball? Uh, he was really good with, with that. I also can see it as an email thing where young guard. Yeah. I'm just going to beat you up here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
yeah and they're fighting for playoff seating throughout all this mccain is 21 21 um yeah reads reads 21 this summer so you know a lot of these guys they come in a little bit older now but um Yeah, I think I'd still go Shepard just because of the shot making. But McCain, you're right. I mean, it was the only good story of the Sixers all year long.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Like, I guess I just don't feel like in March after the draft of saying the only guys that produce have to be ahead of all of the prospects that aren't even getting opportunities and just shuffling it based on shot attempts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think what's really interesting is how early the Dalton Connect story was. Are you kidding me? They got this guy at 17. And the fact that they traded him that soon is alarming. That they were like, we're good. Now, you could argue, hey, it was Mark Williams. Mark Williams version 2.0 has been better. We know the injury history with him. I could argue they should have still made the trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
and their need and thinking, okay, well, they've added Luka. Like there's a glaring need. Can you really make it through the playoffs with Jackson Hayes? But Jackson's life isn't entirely better now because you're playing with somebody like Luka. And it's just like, look, just show defensively, attack at the rim, run the floor all night. He doesn't rebound, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
The fact that he's turned into somebody who might be a backup for a long time, though, is a complete win considering how lost he had looked for multiple seasons. But I think back to the connect point is... those first few months and right. You know, he's a mess on defense and yes, he's older because of his, his college travels, but it's like, I can't believe this guy got him at 17.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Are we sitting here at the end of the year thinking he actually probably went based on the names you've already listed here. We hadn't even gotten to him that he kind of went in the range that you would still put him in today. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
The Klingon thing feels a little tough just because... When you look at Portland and the number of guys out there that want to shoot, Sharpe should be shooting. Simons is somebody that still bails them out of a lot of possessions. Denny's going to get his shots. Scoot isn't shooting. Nobody wants to be Chris Paul their second season of their career.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Banton had that stretch last year post-Boston where it was like, man, this guy can actually really score. He couldn't crack the rotation for Boston. And you'll watch him where I don't think anybody gets happier when the game clock is with the shot clock off. Banton's like, awesome. Now I don't have to pass this to anybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So Klingon's in a really tough spot as far as like, you know, he might be the sixth best option when he's playing on the court offensively for them. So it, it, look, I think the considering like it went from, could he go number one to then he goes seven, you know, being stuck behind eight and Rob Williams update. He's got three to four weeks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It's like, Oh, there is Portland. Get this guy. Yeah. I know what you're saying. Like, you'd like to see some higher, like, ceiling moments from him offensively. But I don't know that it's entirely fair to, like, go, oh, you know, this might. But maybe those guys are right. Because I hear it, too. Like, this is, you guys were nuts. He wasn't this good. This is why he went where he went.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And, you know, he's a rotational big that they took this high. You know, like, man, that'll suck.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
No, but unfortunately the scattering report tracks on him. You know, he had some okay months as far as shooting, but he's also shot at 11% from three. He shot at 15% from three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And in March, March, he's at 7%. Now he's, he's, he's not really taking them as much anymore. I actually think that's like one of the funniest things about young perimeter players. And they come in, they're like, Hey, you can't shoot. And it's like, well, Time to learn NBA games. And they just start taking threes because everybody just takes threes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And then you can see it get to some guys where you go, hey, maybe you shouldn't be taking even three a game. So the percentages are even worse now because he's taking even less of them. But I'm with you. I love the aggression. And that's what you saw before the draft. There is a no-nonsense part of him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Isaiah Stewart, I don't know if that's the best teammate for him to have or the worst teammate for him to have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But Detroit has spacing around Cade. And that's what's opened up Cade. They defend. They shoot. So the Holland minutes, I'll admit, I love... the aggression that drives the body size of like mixing it up with guys. And like, there's never a moment of him where he's like deferring at the rim. Like he's trying to go for it, but you know, there's no way he's closing with the Pistons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I would imagine in a playoff game. Cause he's just not going to provide any spacing. Like everybody imagined in a playoff series, how he would be defended. Like it just means there's another guy in Kate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Wait, he did as a rookie? Yeah. Oh, I was thinking Jimmy Butler. My bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Because I loved him so much at St. John's.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Kaishan George? A lot of size. A lot of size for a perimeter guy. Quentin Post. Could have like a 12-year career. Yeah, I mean, incredible. Incredible scouting job. And now he's the preferable pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I think he has a really nice handle-drive combination stuff with him, but Utah has another group of guys that all just think, you know, here we go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I mean, he just... You know when he's out there, so we'll at least give him that. But, you know, it's just a lot of running around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You know, the knock was he couldn't shoot. He shot it better in the first half of the season as he's played more minutes. He shot it worse, but strokes there. but I would say he... Yeah, I don't know. Look, you don't have to listen to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You can listen to scouts because whenever you first started watching him, I mean, if there was an end one mixtape and that's all you were allowed to look at, he's the number one pick in the draft. Okay? So... The more you watched him, and scouts are like, we've been waiting for this guy to shoot for years, and he's never really been able to shoot it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But it wasn't just the dunk that he had on the baseline of Luka last night. There was another play later in the game where it was just really smart, like that secondary cut, which again, if you're playing with Giddey, Giddey's one of those players, it's like if you just stay active in the possession, if you just keep thinking that there's an option for you, you're going to be rewarded.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And he had a cut off the left side on a giddy drive on the right side where he was rewarded for staying active. And at that point, too, the Lakers... Yeah, that whole team moves, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
They're 31 and 40.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I thought we did a role play of that where I was like, we're still in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Our pod got a little too white. We had a stretch there where I was like, dude, can you, do you guys want Doug McDermott? And I was like, yeah, I love Doug McDermott. Let's have him on. And they're like, you heard her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I'm telling you, man, things are changing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
That Best Buy ad with that rapper, that woman, the buster, and then they went to her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ,,,,,,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Nope. And the Suns, who we started last Sunday with after that Lakers loss, they smoked the Raptors. They beat your Bulls. And of all the Cavs' losses, that was the most alarming one. The Orlando one, again, still shocked that they came back in the fourth quarter when you're looking at Orlando's offense. The Clippers game, the Clippers played so well that you just go, okay, you know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Sacramento's weird, like whatever. Yeah, I don't know. Sacramento wasn't great. Like, I know they didn't have Darius Garland in that game, and they didn't have Mobley for the Orlando game, but... The Sacramento's down Sabonis. They're down Levine, which is kind of a hit or miss anyway. It's like, would you rather play them with Levine? So DeRozan was terrific at the end of that one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I thought the last Phoenix game was the one with Cleveland. We were like, what are you guys doing? You've just lost three in a row. And the effort, especially in that third quarter, the rebounding stuff, like if you go through it, like none of these stats mean anything because it's only four games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But the Cavs of all teams in this four-game stretch, they're 27th on defense, not who they are, 13th on offense, whatever. They're 29th out of 30 teams in rebounding this week, the Cavs. And granted, Zoo had 20 and Mobley had three. Zoo demolished them. Just killed him like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
That was one of those games where I wasn't watching it live, and I knew I wanted to go back, especially once they had lost. So I was like, okay, I want to watch this one tonight. And then it was like Durant had 19 in the third quarter. Like, what happened? So then it's like, okay, we'll make sure we get all this. And that was the smoothest – He looked like you were counting it up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And then at one point, I think it's 11 or 12 and be like, how is he going to get to 19? It's like, Oh, he's just going to make everything else to close out this third quarter. I did hear some of the defensive player stuff about Mobley in that one. And you can get into the switching against a Rosen where he got them twice. Um, And look, he got him once and then Mobley played the other one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And sometimes DeRozan is just going to make better shots than any kind of defense you can stretch in him. I guess Udonis was knocking him a little bit on the defensive player of the year thing, which just makes me think that Udonis is up there making sure people talk about Bam. But Mobley, Durant did not get 19 on Mobley in that third quarter, which I think is important.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But look, they were 56-10 when this thing started. They're 56-14. With two giant win streaks. Right. They were 18-3 against the West until this weird stretch. They go out West. It's almost April. Even without a deep playoff run with this group, this is not who they are. I don't know that you can point to this week if they lose to Boston and be like, oh, see, we knew. I think that's fair.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I think against DeRozan, And some of the minutes against Durant, like because I've talked about the Hunter trade too much, but I'll just say it one more time. At least there's an option for a big guy against the Jalen Brown Tatum, even Derek White. you know, Drew Holiday thing. Because that was four guys that you always felt like, hey, they're going to find somebody against Garland here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
A couple things. The Bulls were incredible last night. And the Lakers' defense is terrible, but it's the first game back with LeBron. Those games when he was out, their net rating was negative. Their offense was 21st. Their defense was 19th. They still went 3-4, I believe, is the record. But that was like an all-time game. I mean, Bezelis is so much fun. That baseline move he had on Luka was...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Like, no matter what you do, there's going to be a way to attack Garland. And if you're helping over that, now you're leaving Derek White or you're leaving Drew in the corner. Or now, you know, obviously Tatum kind of attacks Allen a lot in that last regular season game that they played against each other. So Hunter at least provided some kind of option.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So I think he has to be the fifth in that playoff series against Boston. And that's really the only one that matters. I think there's other games where maybe they'll want the spacing of Struis against a different team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
May not matter. You know, I don't know how Ty Jerome fits in closing minutes of a playoff game next to Mitchell and Garland already out there. It seems a bit redundant, so you may not need it. but I could see Strews closing or even Dean Wade, who's so good defensively, man, like constantly watching him get hunted because he's a white guy. It's like the Hauser thing. It's got a Hauser-itis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Except he's even taller than Hauser is. And, you know, he's another guy that provides you some kind of spacing. So if it's a bigger unit, so like, look, we've been over all these different rotation combos. I've talked about it too many times, but I'll admit on this West Coast swing, as I'm excited about the Hunter option for the Cavs, I also see him getting a little too upright.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I also look at him defensively going, am I giving him the benefit of the doubt of some defensive option against Boston? Just because he's tall. Exactly. Just because he's tall when in reality you can attack him too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't think it matters at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, of course.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but I mean, the standard that you're holding Cleveland to and saying this could be something that's alarming, then you're ignoring all the Knicks stuff. Unless, you know, look, not having Brunson clearly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
The Phoenix game was alarming. The Sacramento one, you're supposed to win that one after the two losses already, but it was actually a close game. Like it came down to the final few seconds in that one. It was an old school DeRozan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think they've been too good. They put together that absurd streak. We know who the players are. It feels like this is their time. Not saying in their time, because some of the playoff seasoning shit annoys me. Where OKC, it's like, well, they haven't done it yet. OK, well, maybe for OKC, their seasoning was just that Dallas series last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
was awesome. I mean, Giddey was close to a quadruple double, the first one since David Robinson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, because I feel like we've always heard it over and over again. It's like, oh, the Pistons had to lose to the Celtics, and the Bulls had to lose to the Pistons, and it's just like on and on and on as if it never. Like, Golden State was rather new. Maybe their San Antonio series in 14 was enough seasoning for them to get through everything in 15 and the Cavs' injuries.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But, you know, did Toronto have seasoning, or was it just a really good year, and then they had their injury luck?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I would expect, too, like even when you watch OKC, if teams try to trap SGA, and sometimes they'll save it, right? Yeah. Whoever they play, especially early on, they'll probably just sell out and be like, let's kind of do this. I trust that there's enough playmakers, shot makers, and options off of that trap
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
that even if you're slowing SGA down, you're selling out and sacrificing something else that usually in NBA games, if you do it too long, like you can't ever go into a game. You're like, this is what we're going to do. Cause then it's like, all right, seriously. No, but you can mix it up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It's been a good half-decade, a rocky start, but...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I have like 12 of them. You think we'll have time? I'm just kidding.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
No, I have three because I spent too much time on one, but I knew you'd probably have five. All right. So Houston takes Mobley number two instead of Jalen Green in the 21 draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. I think this is going to be your favorite one. I mean, I know you have ones that you've done. So let's do it. So I ran through a couple of scenarios. There's plenty of, you know, as, as the ripples go through the lake off the pebbles velocity here. Uh, so that would mean no Jalen green.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So, you know, we wouldn't be kind of stuck in this, what is Jalen Green riddle that's gone on for a really long time? And I think the nice way of talking about it is that I think he's still really important to their offense because he can, what he can get on his own. Like in today's NBA, him being able to get what he can on his own.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I still feel like I fell in love with him on those non-Shingun games at the end of the season last year. It was almost like exactly a year ago. I was like, this dude is figuring stuff out and it is a little weird and maybe worrisome about the Shingun part of it. Remember, Houston, so they take Mobley, too. So now there's not the green part of it. They took Shingun 16 that year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So if they take Mobley, too, they probably don't take Shingun. So he's not on the team. I don't like doing just whoever is good after the pick that you selected. Shingun means you would have gotten this guy. But look, there's a Trey Murphy conversation who goes 17.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Even if we talk about bad teams and not wanting to draft based on need, I have a hard time believing that a team would take Mobley, then take Shingun going, we're just going to roll into it. Although who knows, like maybe Mobley would be the best thing to play next to Shingun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Right. Because he was, it was a 22 first and a 23 first draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I got to tell you, I feel like I need to spend a weekend in a cabin somewhere and go back through all of the crazy, like, here's four or five first-rounders and just do a final tally. Maybe we need to do that on a slower day. It's like in August. I'll admit, there's just some I go, you've completely lost. Like, Marshawn Beauchamp? Like, what? What happened there? And I'll... Like, I'm sorry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Like, I know I'm supposed to know all of this stuff, but...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I'm on it all the time. There's just some of these deals that like once all the picks are done through, I think we might even be a couple years away from it all. But going through like what the cost, like two trades that felt like the exact same cost and the price that was paid are two entirely different worlds based on how the picks convey, didn't convey. Anyway, so staying with this theme here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Cause I think we liked him so much. It was on the path to stardom, but yeah, it's pretty clear. He's not going to be the worst player that plays minutes in the NBA and he might stick around for a little while.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You know, who knows what happens with Usman Garuba and Josh Christopher, because those are later first rounders as well. But I think the other side of this is, OK, so Jalen Green, not part of the equation. No shangoon. Maybe they take him. Maybe they put him next to Mobley. It's terrific. Who knows?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But then on the Cleveland side of it, does Cleveland sit there with Jalen Green going, we can't trade for Donovan Mitchell in twenty two?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Okay, okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, that's the thing, right? So there's two swaps in there. That's pretty good. Yeah, because I don't think teams would take a Jalen Green – and then go, let's do the Mitchell trade now too either. And they would have Darius Garland on the team already too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
When Murray was potentially the most annoying human being in the world during the bubble on the sideline. Right. Well, that was a weird couple of weeks. I like that he's no longer doing that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Man, watching the Lakers broadcast is really funny because you would have thought the Bulls were the two seed in the East. When Patrick Williams comes off a curl on the right side and hit that three of all people, you're like, okay, I mean, Chicago's just rolling. So back to your blueprint thing. You might be right. You might be right. I think when the Lakers went...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Is this a weird way of having the Celtics win it in 23?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
That's a good one because that Warriors team in 23, it was... 22. 22, excuse me. That was... That was like this story. But as it was happening, it's still kind of like, I can't believe this team's going to win the whole thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't know about that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
How about this? Does Memphis have playoff seasonings?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
No, like when you think about Memphis and who they've been, where they've been in the seating, where they've been in some regular season moments, and it feels like they're on the cusp of like, are we getting a Western Conference Finals appearance out of this team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
what, 18-3, and their defense was like a top three or four defense in the NBA. I was like, are they really this good? And now that they're leaking a bit defensively, LeBron in and out of it, you know, like now that he's back, let's judge them based on this. I always find this time of year, these last 10 to 12 games, this closing stretch of the season,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think there's even the moments this year when you look at the standings, you're like, you know, if Ja is right, do you love their closing five? Like what's going to happen? By the way, nobody. I think people obviously with Denver, which I think Denver has actually become a little overrated in this OKC conversation. More than a little. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And I even guilty of it, probably going back less than two months ago, I was like, hey, we still got to include Denver in that one. And then the more I just kept watching, I go, you know what? It needs to be the three teams. And then it's Denver, maybe in their own group that Lakers push, maybe put Lakers with the Nuggets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Houston, I think we all look at the offense going, what is that going to look like in crunch times of playoff games? But now with the Clippers resurgence, with the Timberwolves prior to those two losses. There's a lot of stuff in there where you get through a ton of teams before you ever get to Memphis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And you could argue that they've had playoff seasoning, but you could also argue that they haven't really had any, whether it be injuries or getting blasted out so soon with this group, also because of injuries.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Over Harden? You would trust Harden more than Ja in the playoffs?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but I mean, is not knowing what you're getting an improvement over what Harden has been for his playoff career.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Now, you're right. He's honestly due. Because even as I've talked up the Clippers a little bit, I purposely left out that part of it because I didn't want to be negative again. I do it far too often. I can't help myself. He is one of my sliding doors, though, so I guess I'm not going to be able to help myself one more episode here. But honestly, like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
If everybody were healthy with the Clippers and flying around, it's kind of the thing I used to do to Van Pelt. He would go, we don't do this enough. We don't do this. I'd be like, oh, really? Pick them. Then pick them. Pick them to win the series. Pick them to win the West. And he was like, I bullied him into it one time. He picked the team and then they lost. And he's like, you asshole.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And I was like, well, this concept of...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
anybody that talks for a living there's a lot of like transition into hey no one's really talking about this team but watching the Clippers be this awesome version of themselves again and that Cavs game and going through all the numbers and how everybody's making shots and Kawhi looking like Kawhi and Kawhi getting after Mitchell defensively in a couple huge possessions I was like holy shit and then I'm saying to myself like so you're gonna pick them you're gonna pick Harden to get to the Western Conference or you're gonna pick Kawhi to play for six straight weeks yeah
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But to finish the Denver thing, you think Murray healthy, they get the one in 22.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't want to say all of it is irrelevant, but I really feel like this is the time of the year where you can get tricked and it can be really misleading. And there can be just effort nights. You know, whether it was that San Antonio Knicks game a couple nights ago where Mama was insane. And the Knicks were trying, like you kept watching that game and being like, all right, enough of this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
There's you could do an entire like this Celtics stock. You could do maybe a 20 parter on all the what ifs with the nets over this because I went deep into the hardened contract stuff this morning and I did it last week and I was double checking with somebody on all the numbers of the extensions that he was turning down. Yeah. I like staying. Let's stay on on this side of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Which ring do you think is more important? Giannis getting that one or Jokic getting his in twenty three?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Like the Knicks are going to put together a run and then they're going to figure it out. You have Cleveland who's lost four in a row, which I don't know if we'll get to that with some of the Mitchell stuff. Oh, we will. Continue on the blueprint because, I mean, is OKC the blueprint to the Lakers or are they just a lot better than the Lakers?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think it is, but I'm not, I'm not lumping you in with everybody else. Cause my first thought was it was Jokic because we were talking about Jokic with all these MVPs and back in the conversation and Giannis, you know, unfortunately it feels like no matter what he does, he's just not as much of the conversation, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think one year I was looking back to my MVP voting because I was looking at some other voters who I'm just like, you want to talk agendas? This is such a joke. And I don't know if I'll have a vote again this year. I hope you have a vote. You put in the work. You watch the games. You should get a vote. Well, I appreciate you saying that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But I look at it as something when you get done with it, I don't know how you could ever be like, yeah, nailed it. Because whenever you try to slot in Giannis... I bet you if you averaged out my MVP voting years, I would have Giannis higher than whatever his average finish would be. And yet with Jokic... I think it's a different tier that he's chasing. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And I think he would get more shit without a ring than Giannis would.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It's a pretty simple formula. If we have... These conversations about you, the same thing with the quarterbacks, where it's like, OK, this guy is one of the four or five best quarterbacks with all these different things. When you lose in the playoffs, it's way worse than the 10th or 12th guy. And for Jokic, we're talking about like chasing top 10 in history.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't think we're talking about that anymore with Giannis. We probably were during that final stretch. I also think there'd be a part of this with Giannis. where it would become, can you win with this approach when it's like, well, dude, I'm so glad that he won because I see somebody that reads defenses really well. He stopped taking threes. I think he's a more efficient person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Right. He wants to kill everyone in the other uniform the entire time he's out there. And it just, it's a bit like the Garnett thing because he keeps losing in the playoffs. You have to start questioning him. And I think the only thing that was fair.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
If you were doing the full scope of it, it's like, look, as great as Garnett was, he probably couldn't have always been the number one scoring option to close out a tied playoff game because he was always probably a little bit more apprehensive offensively than I wish that he was. But to suggest that he was a loser because he was losing all the time, was wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I mean, those teams, you just go through it and you see who's like... I always like looking up who took the third most shots for this team. You're like Trenton Hassel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But I want to finish the point, though, only because it would crush me as a basketball fan to watch the way Giannis plays and with all of the great things that we just talked about, right? All of the great things that it would then lead to... there's something wrong with him if he didn't have the ring.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So I think you could make a really good argument for which guy would take more shit sans a ring here because Jokic is... like touching a totally different historic tier. I think Giannis is when it's all said and done, like, what is this guy going to be? Because the standard for him would be higher because of the way we're talking about him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Again, it feels a little dismissive of Giannis, but we're talking about like, Hey, top 10 of all time in this sport versus Giannis, who probably lands in the top 20. You know, I don't know. I mean, you know, this stuff better than I do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
They would get, it would be a good segment to do that too. Like we're just rank, we're just producing shows here right now is who are the most like go last 20 years, the most important rings. Like how important is Steph's fourth ring?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think Steph's fourth is more important than Jokic or Giannis's first or only.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I voted him second last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You were, I enjoyed it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. And I know that I went back and looked at it a bunch of times and I was like, you consistently have him higher than other people do. And look on some stuff I'm impossibly stubborn. I will not change my mind. I don't care what you have to say on this. I'm not stubborn. Like I, I might be wrong, but I just felt like
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't know if the list is very long of dudes that are more impactful this season again than that guy. So, you know, we'll see what happens this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I still think it has to be one of the three most horrifying things in basketball when Giannis has decided he's going to go to the... Well, that's the thing with the playoffs here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You know, I still would rather play, you know, there's an argument to be made because the Pacers are like a mirror version of you as the Knicks. It's like, who knows what happens in that free for all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't know. I just feel crazy picking the pace. I'd rather play Giannis than the Pacers, but I understand the part of it. And especially knowing the Knicks and who they are and going, Hey, the Pacers is going to run and not defend with us for seven games too. And then who knows what happens?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I'll just keep it with this off of the Nets thing, because I think it's a really good point, especially when those guys were playing and you were sorting the stats going to people. Because I think a little bit gets overstated in each season. We're like, hey, do you realize that this team is now on pace to be the greatest offensive all time?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Like Dallas had it a couple of years ago for this stretch. It's like, OK, but at no point do I look at this team. It's the rising tides thing as offenses get better and better every single year. But there was some net stuff that was happening with that group and they were winning all of those games. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
There was that stretch before the two threes that made it a 23 point game when JJ just was like, all right, enough of this. There was a stretch where LeBron was actually like, I was watching for that to be like, if he's just going to, hey, I'm going to get some cardio in. There was a stretch where you could tell on that one drive before it got to 23 points.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It's like, okay, he still thinks they have a chance in this thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
That's a little too harsh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Hey, just full transparency. Have you tried to get him on? No, I had him on a couple of years ago. You haven't requested him on recently? No. Last year? Why? Well, I thought maybe with the Celtics in the finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I know we're doing sliding doors, but we need to stay on this because there's a bunch of things that you said that I totally agree with. But I've also noticed the podcast that he's going on, Is he going on with podcasts knowing that sports guys that know the story a little bit better... Wouldn't hammer him on it. Right, right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Because it's like, hey, when you sold the team... Again, if the Mavs go for $4 billion in Dallas... It wasn't $4 billion.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But if the Celtics go for 6.1, the Mavs should have gone for higher. Yes. It's my point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
They own their arena.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And then which so many NBA teams and I just heard McMahon on with Windhorse and Bontemps on this. And he was talking about just the wording of the transition of the front office of like, OK, this group is buying it, but I am going to run this team. And there's all these very specific quotes about how. Cuban's going to keep running it. I don't know. Was that to a piece of the fan base?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Nobody believed it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
McMahon was using like quotes and they were all like, they all sound ridiculous. Listen, a year later of Cuban go, okay, this is how it's going to be handled. And then, you know, I'm going to run all these different things. And as I made fun of it in the moment on this podcast, and there were so many people around the NBA being like, why does he keep saying this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Like, this is definitely not going to happen. And it's exactly how it played out. So when the Celtics, Sale was announced, which I want to ask you more about. The first thing I thought about in that press release was I wonder what isn't true. Now, maybe they're telling the truth, maybe.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And I still think despite some of the blips that you're you're hammering Cuban here for, I think it's a it's a much better track record than a lot of the other options that you've had. But you'd look at long term ownership. There's no way you're giving Cuban a failing grade at owning the Mavs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Jalen Brunson signing with the Knicks is not in the first paragraph or whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Or the Mavs. There are some memes going around that are like a reminder of Mike Tirico's greatest lesson that he ever shared with me was the points you don't make make the points you do make that much stronger, which is still something I struggle with. But it's really good. If you have one point, sell it. But don't sell it with .567 points.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
that aren't really as strong and almost hurt the strength of one, two, three, and four to hammer home your point. So, hey, Luka's gone. So it was like the Mavs fumble. Have you seen this meme? So it's Luka, and then it's Brunson, and then it's Grimes, who single-handedly is like screwing up some of these lottery odds for the Sixers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But then it's Przingis, who, by the way, they couldn't wait to get the fuck out of there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Derrick Jones Jr. was over there. You're like, okay, well, I mean, you know, he's a nice player, but there's just some dudes in that picture where I'm like, actually, you're kind of ruining the point, but you just thought it would look better with seven players instead of just three. Do you believe the transition plan for the Celtics and WIC?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Because I could see where a group comes in and goes, WIC has been, again, I think on that short list, we know that he's cared. We know that I think he gets it in the way that fans would want your owner to get it. They have always spent money when they've had to spend money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
They're staring down the barrel of this massive tax bill, which I think would be sort of weird for WIC to go like, hey, now that you have to pay this bill, I would recommend not trading any of these players and keeping this window open.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't know what the- Or it was played the way it's supposed to be played. Is it when somebody writes you a check for billions that- Guess what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
If Luca is drafted by Atlanta and he stays with the Hawks, does that mean no Dyson Daniels? I didn't know you had a Luca one. So I had another Luca one with Atlanta. I don't know how different it really is. He's probably still on Atlanta. Trey is with Dallas. They likely don't have a finals run in 24. But I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
That one's not nearly as exciting as the Luca one that you did with everything else. So why don't you just share your last one that you think is great?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
An Ayton trade probably happens, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Dame's been better offensively this year. There's no comparison.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Let's stay... What if... They do the Miami deal. Does that mean Butler gets extended? Does it mean that Miami's still in the mix? Does it mean that Butler's happy? Does it mean that Golden State has no other option?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You don't think Miami wouldn't just like, hey, we'll just run it to pre-agency and see what's out there for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Well, having another like all NBA, not that Dame's making all NBA this year, but... having somebody like his, his shot making would certainly help him a lot easier.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think there's some assumptions in that though. Like what if Dame comes in, gets his 30, isn't playing defense and becomes a sun situation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. It's not Miami suns. Like you just assumed a lot about what they would be doing in the East.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
All right, fine. Then let's say it's Butler and Dame. With Bam, no hero. Is that a top six team in the East right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Is he still second row Joe to you guys?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I imagine Mitchell, Mitchell would have started getting loud. I think at some point, I don't think that was going to be up to just Utah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Does LaMelo... Does LaMelo... Does he actually look like a future Hall of Famer? 16, 17 a game? Wide open threes all the time? Yeah. He's passing over the top. Like, could LaMelo actually... I know he's a stat-filling guy, but would he look like a really nice... Turns into this amazing winning guy. Complimentary, fun, winning player?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I'm not ready to put Castle one. even though I know he's Rookie of the Year, and there's just a toughness and maturity to his game that feels like a really good bet as far as the floor. But I like what I've seen from Risa Shea, so I still think he's number one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I had Bob Myers on and talked about that pick after. And then was like, who would you have taken then? Because I was like, it's just Kaminga felt like the competition he was going up against. And he was like, well, who would you have taken? I go, it's totally unfair for me to say like after Franz has had to start to his career that, oh, you should have taken Franz.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So we came to some kind of agreement with that. But I think it's a lot like these conversations that guys will have and they go, okay, but if it's a lot like the Jalen Brown thing with Ainge, if with this body type and this kind of athleticism, is there enough there that we see that we can build on? that this could be like a really special perimeter player where you're taking him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
That's what I think breaks a lot of ties in these war rooms. And then we look back being like, how do those guys fuck that one up?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It was such a bad fit, though, with Embiid. It just didn't work. Can I give you the trades? Yeah, because they had to get... Well, this pick, by the way, that we talked about before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Tough one. Tough one, but it was ugly and you felt like at the time it was worth moving. They had to do something. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, which I think is to be expected. There are just nights where I see him in his activity. I think what you always worry about with somebody who's just still an unknown is, like, is he going to be overwhelmed by all this stuff, you know, physically? Is he just going to sit in the corner?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, right, because it's two transactions there where it's a negative because you're getting off of Kemba's disastrous thing, but you're including the pick to take him back. I'm just so glad that Al got that second act in Boston because it was this
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
deal where you know he's just not going to be appreciated the right way when he's signed at a max contract but it's so hard to sign any free agents like you should be thrilled especially at the time and age that Horford was at it's like you can get this guy like I hope he says yes to our max offer and then you know look the counting stats aren't going to be good enough for a lot of fans when it's Al Horford and then right for him to extend it this far like even a couple years ago I was like when is this thing going to be over like can you really ask to run him and
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
this way. And I mean, thank God for Horford because without him, I really wonder what they would look like to have, you know, have that kind of insurance against Przingis where you need, you need somebody who's really good to play all those games that, you know, Przingis is going to miss.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Um, not really. Not really. No, not with St. John's. Most anticipation I've had for St. John's at 25 years. Already told that story about St. John's last Sunday. I did not leave my apartment and leave guests behind this time around. I knew that shooting thing was probably going to really hurt him. I didn't expect that it was going to happen in the second game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
against Arkansas but Lewis was just really bad and you could even see at some point Eduford grab him be like you need to wake up you need to wake up so I think on the whole you need to look at it this way if you're a St.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
John's fan you've had nothing to be this excited about for a quarter century Patino is everything and that as advertised considering he's won everywhere he's gone so it's disappointing but they won the Big East they beat UConn twice they're back on the map They're likely only going to get better until Patino probably gets back into like, you know, who knows what job is open to him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Because, I mean, look, even when you did the draft tape of him, there was plenty of games you're like, is this guy just going to sit in the corner? Like, what the hell's going on here? And it's not like I was watching 20 full games of him before the draft, but... it was pretty clear early on that his, his comfort level was a little bit higher despite, you know, his physical disadvantages.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You never know because Patino will just take him. But if he's content and wants to stay in St. John's, I think that they'll be even better. So it was a really fun season for a program that... At some point during every year when I would watch them, I wouldn't really talk about it all that much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I just wanted to enjoy it as a fan because there's very few things that I still have in my life that are just about, hey, this is going to be a fan experience. I don't really have to talk about it. I'm not breaking down St. John's after a bunch of those games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It brought me so much joy this year to feel like you were a part of it again, the way I did when I was a kid, the way I was in college, the way I was in my 20s, that there's just too many positives for me to be too upset about losing to Arkansas. Because they also can't shoot. They were like 340s out of 364 teams. So you knew this game was coming. Again, I didn't think it'd be after one round.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And if he did, he'd be old and gray. I would imagine a lot of guys are going to be walking through that door, though. And if they had one, even a bench guy who was a five who could stretch the floor a little bit. I know Florida just escaped UConn today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Because I think he's one of the most crazy competitive people ever. I think there's another level to him that's even beyond the most competitive people that you know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But I don't know, man, I've just seen it too many times. I've seen it too many times with him where he's just like, okay, what's the next challenge? And I think that's just kind of the way he's wired. It doesn't even matter how old he is because the guy is, you know, arguably the greatest college basketball coach of his era. You know, I know there can be arguments made for other people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I mean, this guy went to Greece after Louisville and you were like, okay, we're never going to hear from this guy again. And then he shows up because Iona's like, we'll do it. Yeah. And then he went early cross in two years. He has St. John's as a two seat and winning the big East. So yeah, look, man, I would think there'd be a lot of people that would want to go there. The New York thing for St.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
John's has always been a little difficult because you'd always think this is automatic, but then for the longest time, the New York kids actually didn't want to go there. They wanted to go somewhere else. The setup wasn't necessarily that great. The NIL part of it, you know, you can get into the USC thing. Like why wouldn't
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
why wouldn't must be able to just get whoever he wanted to in LA and the marketability of LA and SC and all that stuff. And it's like, man, I actually think it's a little bit more complicated. I'd also argue the SC campus situation is, is better than maybe St. John's over the years, but I don't care. Like I'm not, I was bummed out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And I just think at that size and that kind of shot making there's a, that's the reason why that guy goes number one. And that's why even through a rookie season, there'd still be a lot of teams. It'd be like, give me the ceiling of that guy, not just his spot of ability, but off the dribble at that size.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
They lost, but I was so happy about this year that I'm going to let that part of it. I think there could be some kind of memo to Spike Lee though. Like we're good. We don't need you decked out in St. John's gear.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You don't get enough attention. The Knicks thing has been great for Spike.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
There's no way he was rooting for St. John's when he was playing Georgetown. Is my guess.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Which one am I doing? What time?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thursday. Thursday. What time is the theater open?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I got so nervous when somebody sent me the itinerary and they're like, they want me to do the town again. I go, I'm not doing that. No, no, no. I'm never doing the town again. We're doing Good Will Hunting on Thursday. I was on the rewatchables this week. So I got that coming up in the schedule.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I was in the car too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And yeah, I mean, it's overused, but he appears to get it in a way that you hope when you're drafting somebody this high, like, okay, like, You know, there's certain guys that come in and immediately, you know, like, oh, and I don't have any of those concerns when I watch him. So I don't like even if Castle would probably be the popular pick and maybe everybody's right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Do you understand the ceiling part of it for his size and shooting?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Well, you're probably driving home thinking Bozellas last night. Am I right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I guess that's the SAR part of it is he's just getting so many more opportunities because they don't care. But for the last four months, he shot it really well from three and he takes those threes. I do worry a little bit at times when I've watched the Wizards where if it's a close game, you know, I don't know that they really care.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And I'm like, Hey, SAR is going to get into his bag and pull up. Right. But he also might think like, if I don't shoot it, Jordan pool's just going to shoot it. So I might as well do this. So, you know, I think always the fear is whenever you're drafting kind of these unknowns and even research, when we were doing the draft, I was like, this is just crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
When you think about this draft, like somebody like this is going number one overall, but then it was, you know, right back to the argument of SAR or Reed Shepard, who can't even get minutes with Houston right now, who I think of Reed were playing somewhere that didn't care about, we would probably still be leaning Shepard third.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, yeah, or, you know, whatever team. Like, Veselas is just not going to have... Veselas is just not going to have the opportunities that Saar has. And Saar's rebounding, three-point shooting, like I've talked about. He's really only had one bad month with all of this. You know, it wasn't a great start, but you could say the same thing for Risa Shea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I mean, Risa Shea's shot really, really well now the entire second half of the season. So I'll still go Saar third because... Just at that size and that shooting and how much I personally think that you're a completely different team when you have a five-out center, when you have somebody that can stretch the floor a couple years down the road projecting what you can do in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think it just opens a lot of stuff up. As much as we all like what the Clippers have done that went against the Cavs, I kind of get back to as great as Zoo is and we all appreciate him, does it kind of limit your looks when you don't have a guy that can stretch at the five? And Sar is... That is the hope is that they drafted somebody like that that can play defense. He runs really well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I mean, he runs the floor all night long. And I think that was that's why that guy went to even if it was really choppy watching him. He took the shots, which I guess is good. But now he's hitting them enough to justify like four to five attempts a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So it changed the title. It used to be this thing where the NBA withdrawal date was so much later than the NCAA one. Yeah. And it was done on purpose because the coaches would just vote on it and say, we want to know ahead of time. And then I think they changed it where either it's the same date or it aligns. I think the unknown part of it, like if it were a franchise, you go, absolutely not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I want nothing to do with this. Um, Maybe, but you have new ownership in Charlotte. You have a wing of running things with the Wizards. So there's at least things that you feel like, hey, the guy's making these decisions. It's different than what it was before. So even though these teams aren't exactly... So if you hated one of those scenarios that much...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
would you actually delay it for NIL money that still would probably be close to what your rookie scale would be as a first? Again, I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
No, I mean, I was looking at it this morning where I was like, which team, if we're just being honest, be like, they don't deserve him. Like how you used to get mad when Cleveland, you just said Philly. Philly. Philly is the answer. It's the only answer. They don't deserve him. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, because you did a Cleveland rant. I think it was the third time they had won the lottery and you were on TV. Oh, on TV.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
The most positive thing that you can say about him is that he's actually not going to need the ball to impact games immediately.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So whenever you think about a draft pick that could be the face of your franchise, I mean, because if we're talking like best case scenarios and him being this prospect that we've all been hearing about, even though there was a chance, I think there was conversation beginning of the year of like, could the Rutgers guys surpass him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And then the year plays out and you're just like, okay, well there's obviously everybody's on the same page. Now there's no question that he's the number one guy, but, Your Tatum thing, at least now, I think actually rings true because you're like, hey, Tatum's playing point guard for this team. And Flagg initiates so much of their offense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But he also, one of the things I loved about Paolo is that Paolo could have taken every shot and been justified when Duke was in those tight games, but Paolo still wanted to set up other people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
He had what I think is like star quality shot making stuff, but yet a deferential thing that actually works well with other talented players where I think young guys have to get to a point where like, hey, you just can't Like, cool scoring, bro, but you can't just do all of this on yourself and ignore everything else that's going around you. Cooper cannot take shots and impact the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
His passing is insane. His instincts are great. His footwork, all the athleticism, the body control, and the shooting ended up being even better, I think, than people thought this year. So he's really like a plug-and-play guy. I guess the only knock would be almost like the Wimbinyama thing where you go, okay, in five years, is Wimbinyama, like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
figuring out a way to score on his own in the Western Conference Finals. I think clearly, you know, that's like being really hard on Wimbanyama. And I think with Cooper, because if you're going to be one of these, there's not 10 guys in the league that probably fit this standard. I don't know how many you think there are, but... OK, we have a real dude. We're actually like in this not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Hey, every year we have a chance to win a title, but we're at least like we look like a conference finals team because that's the hope when you get one of these guys. And is he somebody that can score in all those busted up possessions? And that would be maybe the only thing where you go ceiling wise, like he projects to maybe do that. But that's what will make the difference.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Are you saying MJ and Magic, could they have been better had they lost their title games?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
We're saying two different things, though. We're saying two different things on the Cooper, how this sticks to him. I'm looking at it as he's going to be at the gas station in Maine when he's 60. And some guy's going to come up to him and say, I can't believe you lost that game as if he hasn't heard it his entire life.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
When I was watching him and like, I think, I don't know if I was reading this correctly, but when Shire had him in the timeout and they were getting ready to inbound, I think he said to some, like, it's your time, right? Like, go, like, go make it happen. Yeah. And how different now, granted, they still have to be Florida, which is, you know, a really good college basketball team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So maybe we're assuming a lot. But he's going to be reminded of this probably every day in some fashion for the rest of his life. And it's going to be brutal. And you're right. I think the thing that we're separate on is that it's not going to stick to him as if it's a knock on who he is as a player. And he's, you know, he has this great NBA career. None of this is really going to matter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Plenty of guys have lost, they've lost, but this was just such a dramatic loss to blow it this way. And to have somebody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Is this the Memphis, Kansas one? When they don't make their free throws?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
older, not jump off the screen, that's your athleticism. So I think that's where I look back at some of the mocks and there was one in the beginning of this month where he wasn't even a second round pick. Right. And that's where again, late to this, but the Tennessee SEC tournament game, I was like, holy shit, you know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And then he's basically been that the entire time we talked about the Texas Tech shot. But what he can do, I'm not comparing him to Steph, okay? But what makes Steph a great shooter is that Steph can have a bad foundation, that Steph can change the release of it, even though it all kind of comes back. You know, it's almost like a Dirk thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
If you looked at Dirk's foundation, you would never say, hey, do what that guy's doing. but everything was always adjusted for whatever the release was going to be. So there's some guys that are just catch and shoot. They can never move.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
They develop the muscle memory enough that if they catch and shoot in a certain spot, they put up like a really good number, but I don't know that it makes you a well-rounded shooter. And what we see with Clayton is that he can be that, that corner three that he hit from the left side or excuse me, it was the right side. So right corner,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
He's adjusting all of his like arm and release point to get away from the contest. And then it's natural. He also had a drive in the left side where he had read it and he knew what was going to happen and he knew he was going to get fouled. So he's preparing himself to even throw the ball up at the rim. And it wasn't even an and one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But there's just stuff with him that even if he's not off the page, or I should say off the charts athletically compared to some of the other guys, he seems to keep getting past everybody the entire time. And there's some players when you're doing the draft, you're like, I don't know if he's the most dynamic or the most quick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And it's like, okay, but he just keeps getting past everybody every single time. And his pace and his comfort in the biggest moments... I haven't done it, but I guess I'd have a hard time believing that there's 30 guys that go ahead of him, even at the age.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Just to add to it, though, because I've been doing it now where like on FanDuel, I hedged it with a Florida-Houston, Florida over Houston plus 750 title. So I was like, I love Duke. I love them in this game. And then you're sitting here going, I still don't feel like I was wrong. There's plenty of games where you're like, I'm just wrong on this one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So yeah, I got a little title game insurance, so we'll see how it goes. But doubting Houston is a dangerous sport right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I still can't believe they lost it the next day that I'm sitting here. I know you and I both bet it, and I don't bet a ton of games, but when I saw the line come out and I had watched, you know, look, I'm certainly far from an expert on college basketball, but I just thought based on the size...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I'm not. I think it's the hardest award to vote on, to be honest with you. With no Wendy? Well, yeah. I mean, he was just going to win it. But there's a lot of stuff that Draymond does do that is really important that may not show up. His switchability, that stuff's crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Defensive player of the year, clearly watching all year, I have thoughts, but I definitely make the rounds with coaches, assistant coaches.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Uh, and then the numbers, when you start looking at some of the matchup stuff, which, you know, at times I think can be packaged to be a little misleading. Um, but it's, it's a Dortmobile thing for me right now, but I'm going to make the calls and, and figure it out. But I, I just think it's such a hard thing to vote for.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
advantage that do CAD and three lottery picks, you know, like, okay, four isn't, isn't that bad of a number in the whole game. I'm like, you should have bet more. You should have bet more. Like you were so right about this, you know, and anybody that, you know, gambles enough, you just have games where you go, wow, I saw this the worst possible way. And immediately, you know, you're fucked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I mean, Unicorn is like... Who was the OG Unicorn?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Hey, I saw something the other day. They're trying to say you could bench 500 pounds. Did you find that in any of your research? That would be really impressive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
No chat? Didn't play enough? Not eligible? What do you need, 35 games?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
If they have a playoff run and he plays as well as I think he's going to play, there's going to be some real chat conversations. I don't know if they'll get as absurd as DeAndre Ayton potentially being a top 15 player in the Suns finals run of a few years ago. That seems inaccurate with further information.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But the rim protection numbers, the fact that he can play five out, the fact that he goes coast to coast the other night against Detroit and then three point shooting. Yeah. So I, I just, Hey, just telling the world, prepare yourself for some big time chat projections. If OKC pulls this off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But just an aside, a man's like four of these for me. And then I had to figure out how to whittle it down. So I don't think a man's a bad choice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And on this one, I sat there the whole time being like, I'm so smart. I'm so smart. I would say there was two moments that hinted at what was going to happen. That barrage of threes at the end of the first half kept Houston in it. So they did good. Despite being outplayed in the first 20 minutes, they went at halftime feeling good about themselves.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Not that this team necessarily needed the confidence boost, but being the dogs, but they're a super aggressive team with a lot of confidence. And then really, I think Cryer... And those guys, like the two guards just hitting threes, you're like, how is this game not 20? How is it not 25 points?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And then I think once you saw that Zion James just could not, he was not comfortable inbounding the ball. And they kept going to this same flashing thing to the corner where they were running the inbounds catch to the corner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. ,,,,,,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I guess I was shocked. And some people even said, like, after James hit his head. But it was very clear he was freaking out trying to inbounds it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
,,,,,,, We didn't want to give him up. Right, right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And Shire was just fine with it, I guess. I know. Then it actually happens, and then you have the foul on Cooper. But look, this team was up. They gave up a 9-0 run with 35 seconds. They didn't hit a field goal for, like, the last... What, 10?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I was like, that guy doesn't like passing. That's a really good one. He really doesn't. But then his assist percentage number on the advanced stuff was so much higher than I thought it would be. I was like, all right, that's not. The numbers don't back up the eyes on that. But I'm just telling you that guy's not. He's thinking shoot first. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
If you've watched enough Portland, which some of us like watching Portland play. So then I looked at top 15 in field goal attempts, not per game, just raw field goal attempt total. I did the same. Jalen Green's fourth. He's taking the fourth most shots this season in the league. Is that true? Yeah. Jalen was awesome the other night against OKC. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
They need him. But if you go by the 1,394 shots, that's, again, 1,394 shots this year. So I looked at it. I was like, all right, let's say top 15 shot attempt guys total on the season this He's the only one under 300 assists. DeRozan is the only one close to him at 316, and Jalen's at like 260-something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Now, you could also say, hey, scale it out to 16 field goal attempts, and then Jaron Jackson Jr., who I love. But then I go, okay, but nobody's giving it to Jaron Jackson Jr. saying, all right, now set up the offense. Maybe we don't have a black hole.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I was surprised. But what are you asked to do? But when you start getting into like 7% assist ratio, like Jordan Clarkson had some years. You're like, man. Not a lot of playmaking there. So some of it feels a little bit like, okay, but once the ball is passed to me, meaning you and I, what do you morons expect me to do? You realize how I fit into our offense?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I'm not getting the ball to set it back up. So I think it has to be on somebody who you're still expecting to maybe make a few plays here and there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Actually, if you were playing 36 minutes a game, I feel like any rookie playing 36 minutes a game is probably in the running for rookie of the year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And I kept thinking like, Of all the times that I'll admit the disconnect of me never playing in any game that ever mattered in this sport that I'm in love with and is basically my career, And then somebody who did play is capable of suggesting that because one guy gets triple doubles, it's the same as the other guy getting triple doubles. I just... It makes my head explode.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Okay, I can't... I still don't have an answer as to how it even happened. So Perk's been on a bit of a heater. He had SGA and the Defensive Player of the Year conversation the other night when they were talking MVP. Oh, no. Yeah, it was like, why is SGA... not being mentioned for defensive player of the year. And I thought like, well, cause it's March and we know that he isn't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And he's actually, if Wallace isn't on the floor, like the one guy, not to say that he's a bad defensive player, but he's, he's not even like one of the three or four best defensive players on his own team. Although he's gotten defensive, all defensive team votes. I think it was a couple of years ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
He's a good defensive player, but yeah, he's got, he's on the same team with Dort and Caruso and Wallace. Right. So yeah, That made me like I had a relapse on the Jokic Westbrook thing when I was watching that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And so then I saw the Marcus Morris stuff with Jokic and I was like, you know, first takes probably sitting there going, is there anybody that we can find that's kind of in the mix, played, not playing? Maybe we can figure out if he fits in to what we're doing. But like back different background than Jokic. Like, is there anybody available who could come on and just shit on Jokic a little bit?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Right, it's his brother. But is there anybody that would fit into what we're doing here? And it's like, I've got the guy. I've got the guy. And they must have been high-fiving him, being like, you fit in perfectly to what we're doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Could you say not top 50? That was really good. Because when I saw the clip, it was like, no way. Marcus Morris kind of shit on Jokic a little.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I'm going to blame myself for this one, but I wrote out a Tumani Kamara open that I didn't do on my pod.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. I probably would have led with the guest on the tweet of that episode. Kamara. Underrated?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
You know what? Off of that, though, I think we could bring it back to the Luca thing that we haven't even brought up yet, is that when it happened, all we were doing with whatever contacts you had was like, did you know he was available? And it was like, no, no. Did you hear this? No, no, he wasn't. He wasn't or whatever. And then it like took a couple of weeks. No calls.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It took a couple of weeks for us to be fed the idea that he was offered for Ant and that he was offered for Giannis. And then it became, again, it depends on who you believe, because I don't know that any of this stuff was officially reported. But the sense you got from it, I think you and I would agree.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So I'm assuming a bit here where it was like, yeah, a team called us about a trade, but they didn't say he was available.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
We had bad years for this. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I just gave you that timeline. What's been going on. Let's see. I'll go Chet ceiling. But if you want to ding him for not playing what he's at 29 games and Reeves has had to really carry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
There's such a recency bias with awards. I think Jimmy Butler needs to be recognized here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It started in the playoffs last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
He was slow, though, in that Lakers game. And it was something that maybe I wouldn't notice as much if I wasn't there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I've learned to love Shaq. I didn't really appreciate him when I was younger. I guess I did from a basketball sense, but I was never necessarily rooting for him. I think at that point, once he was at the Lakers, I was certainly more into my Commonwealth phase. So it wasn't likely that I was going to root for him. So I've learned to love him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
he feels incredibly sincere, you know, somebody that's a public figure, his honesty, the way he's talked about stuff. But I mean, just, I'd say you think you're better than me would be Shaq against anyone that's currently playing. Like he just can't help himself and we'll have these games that are just incredible performances. And then somehow the conversation just pivots back to that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
They couldn't guard him. And if I were a producer, I'd go, dude, you have figured it out. You're great on this show. It was a really tough show to come into. You know, in the beginning, I thought with Shaq that first year is bad. Yeah. Is this going to work? Is he looking at those other two guys being like, I was a better player than you. So I should be a bigger star than you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But it's like, hey, Charles, it's just the star of the show. And then everybody kind of plays off of that. And for whatever reason, it almost feels so important that they developed him. He's done a great job developing himself on television. Everybody behind the scenes, it's really important that he's there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And I would say to him, if I were on the show, just be cautious of playing the same note over and over again. Especially when you have a night in the NBA that should be celebrated.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
No, the guards killed him. And yeah, it's one field goal, that Cooper three with the last 10 and a half minutes. So that's really the headline. We can talk about a call or inbounding. It's like, how does Duke go 10 and a half minutes with only one made field goal throughout of it? I think there's also different discussions. They don't double Cooper on the last play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I'm saving Ingram for something else. That's totally fine. Um, marketing surprise. You would nominate, although it's a bit alarming, but I think that team had just so many on ball guys that were young and they were like, we want to lose anyway, so we're not going to worry about it. Uh, the Patrick Williams one sneaky deserves like a lot of credit here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. And he's just, He had a dunk that the other night and I was like, this is awesome. They're also down 30, I think, to Oklahoma City within minutes of the game. But the Embiid and the Embiid timeline of it is really why there shouldn't be anybody else receiving votes for this one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I have a really soft spot for Andre Blatch. We used to talk about him all the time when Van Pelt and I did Wizards Daily, because if you go back to those Blatch years, that group, and then I followed Blatch on Twitter. The Blatch years? That was your first book. Yeah, I didn't get... I mean, I still have to pay the advance back, but...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
They had a thing where they would be on the road and I think one guy on the team complained about having to pay a cover charge going to a club. They were just constantly sharing with you everything you could assume about where their heads were at that season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So Blatch's profile pic was incredible. So I followed him immediately. And then every now and then he would just drop these gems and then like they'd had a bad losing streak again. And I felt bad for him because he was like just walking around trying to figure it out. It was like late at night. The other thing, I don't know if this could ever be a category. I don't know if it's a segment.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But it could be horniest guy on Twitter because I'll tell you with the for you feed, you know, look, if you see somebody cute, you might look at a profile picture. Right. And then next thing you know, you're like, hey, this guy likes cute girls, which I think makes makes, you know, checks a lot of boxes for a lot of American males out there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So then you'll see like a picture and you'll go, oh, this guy follows her. And then if I'm being honest, I've kept track of it a little bit. Oh, I'll go. There's a few dudes that are not afraid to hit that follow button. And it just does circle back to the wizard. So I would like to have you keep it Andre Blatch forever just because I like talking about him. I made a great case.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
If he hits that shot, does everybody go, hey, Houston, how do you play that straight up when you know that the ball is going to him? That didn't hurt him. There was also the debate of after the technical free throw by Knipple, Houston played it straight up. And my thing is always at home, it's kids, although some of the guys are a little bit older now. But I would foul.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
We'll see. He's your guy. I understand. We've been through this before. Okay? We know how it works. He's your guy. He's given you a lot of special moments. So you're going to defend his guy. But I would say to the Memphis fans that are confused on why Jot would be fined versus other players doing the same salute, like...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
All you have to do is go through the timeline and all the stuff and the Jalen Rose interview and all the things that he had to go through, which, again, he brought on himself. And it's fine. Like, I'm not watching him going, oh, I don't like this guy because all this shit in the past.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But it's fairly common sense that you end up being punished based on how often you kind of fall into this category.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So Detroit's the only team in a full season to triple their win total. So 14 and 68 last year. And I probably said too many times last season going as bad as they are. How are they worse than Washington roster wise? Like this team has so many other things that I like about it versus what the Wizards had. And they still ended up finishing behind them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
which speaks to the money thing which you may never get a chance to change that at work because it's not just going to be on record it is about a dude who took a job who apparently had no interest in learning about his own players like it isn't a it's a comical and they're still taking shots at him a year later anyone associated with that team is still pretty bummed out about how he approached the job last season
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. For a variety of ways. There's a technical thing historically on tripling your win total because the Bobcats in 2012 finished at seven and fifty nine and then went twenty one and sixty one the next year. But remember, that was a shorter season. Yeah. So they had less games to play, less chances. There's not a Bob. Are you going to do a Bobcats documentary or would that be straight to?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Is anybody going to do that? Have you been probably one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Seems right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I would delay the game out as much as possible because I would expect the younger guys to just miss free throws. And Houston plays it straight up, which I think We could debate it, and granted, people will just play the results and say, hey, it's smart now. But in that moment, maybe Samson's going, hey, these guys have been tight for a half an hour. So let's not foul them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Without knowing the nominees, I had Beal and that you're dealing with somebody who seems totally happy just going, I don't care. Yeah. And that's dangerous.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Do you think there's any scenario where he goes, all right, I know you don't want me to be here and you guys brought me off the bench for this stretch and this hasn't been a good season. I mean, I don't know. I mean, what's the market for him on top of everything else? Does that fix their problems? Probably not because he's at this point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
By the way, when he also was out for that stretch, there was this kind of tease Phoenix moment where they were... I liked the way they were playing again for like 10 days or something like that. Yeah, and then they got killed and Durant got hurt and the moment was over.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Off-arm drives from the offensive player. It's, you know, this isn't my big rant like last year where I just kind of lost my mind on that podcast, but I think we're all better for it. But this is just, there's certain players, it's kind of the PJ Washington where guys are hitting the hole like a running back. and they have that forearm locked out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Davion Mitchell had one the other night where he drove and hit a defender so hard and then got the shot up, and there was a little bit of contact coming back towards him. And Davion looked at the refs like, are you guys kidding me? He touched me. And you're like, dude, you're mad? You off-armed this guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Let's let them run the clock out. They're going to run it down. They're not going to get a great look. And if we play them straight up, at this point, maybe it's better than... Because they would have been down six points. If they foul, who knows? He makes it two. Then it's probably over.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So I think there's a little cleaning up that has to be done on how aggressive the off-arm is of the ball handler on drives.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
If you care about your field goal percentage that much that you end up seven to 15 instead of seven to 16, don't ask for the fucking ball on the inbounds. How about one of the guys who doesn't care? Right. That's what drives me crazy. He's like, so now you're going to pretend that you didn't get the shot off in time because you didn't want to hurt your field goal percentage.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Stop getting the ball in the inbounds. Let the other guys that don't care and understand like as absurd as the shot is that they're not more worried about a couple percentage points.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I'm cool with that. I don't know that we're ever going to get shorter reviews. We might pretend we are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, he had a push shot the other night. It was a couple weeks ago where it was pretty ugly coming out, but then it went in. And then based on the confidence from that first one going in, he had hit back-to-back shots within a few minutes of each other, which I think has to be one of the highest output. Moments we've had in a rotation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I thought it was that until last night playing Dallas to Anthony Davis is on the left side. He has a primary defender on him. Simmons is the low man and Simmons rotated to double Anthony Davis and then communicated in a way that you don't see where it was almost like, hey, you see Davis over there. This is like, wow, the clock is going. I'm going to now go over here and double team him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But to decide to play them straight up, which goes against everything I'm saying, but maybe even in the moment, it's like why some of these coaching philosophies don't apply to every single game because things are playing out differently. Houston, look, in the Tennessee game, Most teams, I think, would have blown that lead to Tennessee.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So you've got to slide over if somebody cuts behind me. And everybody's like, great. That's awesome. And then Davis ran. So I thought it was great communication, even if it felt a little slower than what I'm used to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I mean, if you're just going Jimmy, but like any great drama, he's got that kind of redemptive arc right now, as annoying as that may be. And I would expect Miami fans should be annoyed. I guess it's hard to pretend that you're in, but I'll never understand lacing them up, going to play basketball. And then going, I don't care if I look bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I can't imagine having that inside of you where you would go, well, that guy scored on me because I don't care. Or I didn't try to help us win because I don't care. And I'm just not going to... I'm just not really going to play that hard. I've already made my money or whatever. Like...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
You'd think some of that stuff, like at least with all the bullshit that Durant has gone through, where some of it I think is unfair, some of it is certainly fair, and he's brought it on himself, so I'm not absolving of blame here, but it's been a pretty soap opera-ish second half of Durant's career. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Because Tennessee was one of these teams, when you watch that first half against Kentucky, where you go, oh my God, this is overwhelming. The energy, the effort, how hard these guys play. And Houston's the same thing. And Houston's like, fine, you guys want to do this with us? We'll do it. So...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But there's never been a moment where I've seen him going through all of his stuff where I haven't... I've never questioned how much he wanted to play basketball. I think once he finally gets out there, he wants to beat you the entire time. And look, there's 450, 500-plus players over the course of a season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
There's going to be a couple guys that actually don't really love basketball and don't really care. But I can't imagine actually being really good. Beal's an incredibly talented player. We all know how good Jimmy can be. It'll... forever blow my mind that somebody has that ability. And maybe that's just a disconnect of them looking at it as a job.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And I'm still just in love with the game of going like, I don't care if I look bad in front of all these people that came to see me tonight because I'm getting paid and I don't care. So my tiebreaker would be Beal because... Yeah, I think that's the right answer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I don't know what Beal's excuse is. And look, the metrics are the worst he's been at since his third year in the league. The last time he's played, I think, more than 60 games is 2018-19. So even when the trade was made and we understand how talented he is, because I remember I had said, like, if you go through this, this guy's missing like 20-25% of the season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And there was some pushback because I was using total games on the shortened seasons. It's like, OK, but you're still you're making an excuse for a guy that doesn't seem like he's available enough. He just doesn't on top of everything else. Yes. Again, you know, if you're Phoenix with the effort that you get from him on certain nights, you'd almost rather him not be available.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I don't want to, like, look, my least favorite thing ever is when the topic in the pre-show meeting is, did Duke blow it or did Houston win it? And it's just stupid. TV shows do it all the time. Duke clearly blew this, but it's also ignoring the fact that this is who Houston is. This is a team that was down six with 10 seconds to go against Kansas and forces a double overtime game. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Sounds like somebody's leaning Jokic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Pretty bad one. This isn't I can't believe I called her. It's like I can't believe I married a cocktail waitress in Thailand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But I at least think you should bring up Masai. Because Masai is now... Oh, with all the extensions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Right. So Masai's sight unseen with Ingram gave him three years, $120 million guaranteed. And you could say he hasn't played a game for him yet in sight unseen. Obviously, he knows what he's doing. Look at the free agent thing that we teased earlier. Like, maybe there's a number out there for Ingram that's higher than we could imagine, which is usually the lesson that we hear.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Or I should say experience every time we start going like, oh, why is that guy going to make that much money? And then he gets signed to it. But... it's Scottie Barnes, Ingram, quickly, R.J. Barrett, and Pirtle next year for a combined $156.4 million.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Maybe with Dark, who knows? I mean, they've outperformed everything you could possibly imagine in the second half of the year. So maybe they're just developing all they got. Maybe they'll be the deepest team in the league next year. It's just an expensive five. It's an expensive five for that five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
They believe it all the time. And so I want to credit him for that, but I still cannot believe that a team like Duke, that's this good, that this talented couldn't figure out the inbounding thing. Cause James was rattled those last four or five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I'm just advanced scouting Yoko Chait. There was a fly in front of me for those watching on the clip. I'm advanced scouting it because if he loses in the first round, then it's going to be like, can we get Marcus Morris back in here?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I don't know what's going to happen in the West. Okay. Other than I think OKC is going to beat all of these teams. And I'd be really, really surprised if they're not representing the West. I think they're that good. Me as well. And they have all of these options and it's hard to find like a flaw with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
What would you say that is?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Honestly, I think it's going to hang on him. I think the people are going to ask him about this game for the rest of his life. Really? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, this is awful, man. This is all time. Like, I know what you're saying. Like, oh, I remember in the tournament, but whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I think this was so big on this stage for a Duke team that so many people dislike, but yet here he is, and I'm watching him in this game going, I don't know where the flaw is. Where's the flaw? Right. The more you watched him, and I know we're late to this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Considering how all-in they went on the Kawhi stuff and how he hasn't been healthy at the end of the playoffs or the end of the year for a bunch of seasons in a row. The Paul George part of it and then what you've given up and then watching SGA become... I mean, there's just a lot of shit here where you go, man... Imagine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Imagine if they had some moment of like a 2-2 series in the Western Conference Finals where you go, you know, those guys, Lawrence Frank and the crew, the strategy was the right strategy and it couldn't have gone worse.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But yet, is there this redemptive arc where they repaired it on the fly and let Paul George just walk because they knew better than anybody else, although they still did offer the three years. Is there some part of this where... We're being brought into game five, and somebody's written a Wright-Thompson essay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
The turn by Nuggets fans on Westbrook here is amazing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
This is what I've thought the entire time because Westbrook, has been more accepting of this role with them than at any other point. But there may have been, even for somebody as stubborn as he is with his approach to basketball, like maybe even he had a realization of going, I need to change this a little bit. And when you're playing in the same minutes, the same lineup as Jokic,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
You can see him almost in a hurry to get him the ball back that could lead to some of those other problems. But on the year, considering how bad they needed somebody to play these kind of minutes, a guy that was never really going to question his own value, the ego of a player that you kind of need as a foundation to even play in this league,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
they needed... Like, it's been a win because of how limited their options were. It's like, okay, well, we're going to get this guy cheap because he's been on six teams here in a very short amount of time because he hasn't fit in and maybe hasn't accepted what he needed to be. So I think there was an acceptance part from Westbrook here that was admirable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But I think anybody that kind of knew where his limitations were, you were like, is he actually going to close? And I'm with you. And it's not just the mistakes in that Minnesota game. There's just a lot of times where... You're like, what's the spacing going to look like? Is that going to screw up some of the other stuff they're going to do?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I also think there's something with Westbrook too, depending on the matchup, like it's going to be, if I get to play the Lakers, I'm going to prove to them that they're morons. If I get to play against the Clippers, I'm going to, there's a revenge factor with like four of these teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I don't know off the top of my head. I mean, he's played... Who would your guess be? I'll just tell you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
If you were scouting him, you would be in the room? No, I'll let him flag.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
No, he's been really important throughout this season because of their lack of options. And so it has worked out, but the hesitation I always had with it was, Let's see what happens here in the playoffs. Cause I think this could be the kind of thing where the game log now, who knows, maybe it could be game and score and foul of trouble, all that kind of stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But like, if we're talking real close games, the first round for Denver.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
He's not out there in the last 10 minutes. You look at some of those game logs and it's like, okay, 19 minutes, 15 minutes. And then you're like, Oh, like, so who's your white chocolate was a problem guy. I would say if you took Isaiah Stewart clips from today and then ran them and said that this was the 90s were like, then everybody would just say, oh, Steph would have just had 12.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
That's good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
My least favorite con. The Stewart pulling down Giannis from behind play is indefensible. That's fucking nasty, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I don't know what age that the red cheeks thing goes away. He's awesome, by the way. I think he's even better than maybe we realize. Maybe get him the ball a few more times last night. But You get older, everybody looks younger. There's a weird thing that happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I don't know what it is with the science of it, but if you look at fraternity composites when you're in college, all of the guys from the old pictures look like... You're like, how come that guy was 40 and he was in college? That's just dudes looked older And then when you're older and then you're watching college hoops, like every year, guys just look younger and younger and younger.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So I don't think he's on the Mount Rushmore of Duke face. I think that's early Cherokee Parks, maybe a little Quinn Snyder in there, maybe Grayson Allen, maybe Danny Ferry. So I don't know if Knipple can make that, but there's just a face. And it's not the same thing as Shamit face, but I'm just projecting him maybe to be there one day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And it doesn't even mean that, you know, you can be good looking and have Shamit face.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It's really the only winner, but I would offer up Ant if I had to offer up somebody else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
If you can't have Jokic, they go with Ant. Even the Sixers closed the other night. It was awesome. The shots that he was hitting in the double overtime win against Denver, I don't know what it is about the threes when they matter the most.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It's almost like a pitcher who cranks, and it's not what he's doing, but it's like the shot goes in with more velocity than it's supposed to on the ones that really matter. There's a crispness to his shot and his athleticism and the way that it goes in that's visually appealing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
That's where whenever I hear anybody just knocking him, I lose my mind because you go, he's in control of everything that's happening. Like everything that's happening. And then the understanding, I forget what the number was. I don't know if it was hardened to Zubat for number one, but it was like who has the most field goals that are assisted or something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And like Christian Brown is number two in the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Christian Brown, clearly because Denver hasn't done a good job with this roster, maximizing it. Maybe the way others should. I also wonder if Jokic were different, would there have already been some other star player that went through AAU with Jokic and goes, hey, I'm going to come up there and play with Denver?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Because it's getting alarming because of the rings rule for Jokic, where it's like, are we going to be allowed to appreciate him? I know we've already touched on some of this other stuff, but... He's just orchestrating all of it that's happening, and he doesn't want to shoot 30 times. He doesn't want to pull up from three as much as he did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It almost feels like Nash, where Nash would have these games. You're like, how come you're not shooting more? Like, what's going on? And it's just the way he's wired to play basketball is still somebody that wants all of it to kind of connect and work together. And that's why I can't fathom why guys who played can watch these games and then find a way to shit on it. But you know, whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I mean, this kind of normal now with the former player stuff, but yeah, look really good. Not top 20, 22 to 20. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, we got Lakers Thunder here. Are you watching the studio yet on Apple?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Are we saying two different things, though? Because I don't, I mean, yeah, I don't know that you're going to be having Kevin Harlan on a Thursday night TNT broadcast four nights from now going, well, 30 from Cooper, but they blew that game to Houston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
No, I guess I'm still shocked that you thought he sucked the last two minutes. I'm gonna have to go back and watch the tape again. You have to watch it. I think giving up a rebound or getting caught in rotation and somebody hitting a three, like that's basketball. I don't know what that means.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
You watched it a couple of times? I did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I don't know. Look, I think they ran down the clock too long on the knipple miss. I think that Proctor missed the free throw. I think Sion couldn't inbound the basketball, and then he turned it over. I think the three that made it... The sharp three that made it 67-64, that's a free-for-all. And... you know, it's, it's kind of like, wait a minute, the sharp three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I think maybe I'm thinking about the other three. There's another three in here off the tip where it's a complete free for all. And I don't even know how, like anybody, you know, it's kind of like one of those offensive rebound threes where you're just like, everybody's so scattered the whole time. Um, I was surprised. Did Rick Buecher try to argue that Flagg was fouled on the rebound?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
He was kind of saying, we don't know what his... I think he went with a mystery third arm defense. Classic Rick Buecher. I haven't seen the Rick Buecher. You could see his hand, and I didn't want to like... You know how it is when you're tweeting out stuff and you go, well, did you not factor in Sri Lanka's GDP in the tariff? Then you're like, I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I just look, they screwed up so many different times. It's not about that call, but I can't believe an official in that moment is like, I think I'm kind of ready to call something on this box out. Like I think I'm ready.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, that's what's always left out when it's like, well, look at the rookie scale stuff for the NBA guys and look at what you could make and who knows what the NIL stuff. But I always think the NIL stuff, although lucrative, is can be really misleading. Like contracts just get announced like a lot of NFL stuff. It's like Russell Wilson, 21 and a half million or like or 10, you know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So I think the NIL stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, right. That's a really good one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It's exactly your point. The agent, the family, everybody else is like start the clock for the rookie max extension.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka Gets Traded to the Lakers… What??? | With Ryen Russillo and Rob Mahoney
When you move from prohibition to legalization, it takes time to significantly reduce the size of the illegal market.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He shot over 31% one time out of the last five years. I mean, you really want to compare him to Jalen Brown. Like, you think you're hurting my feelings, but you're not. Yeah, that's it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Jalen was 31, 40% in his second year from three. I mean, look, what I would say is the point is at 27, guys change.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
What do you mean by really good? Give us what you think the ceiling version of this group is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I've been a little harsh here, but every now and then I have to be honest with the thoughts I have from five months on the couch. And if I look at the job part of it, his third year in, he's seventh in MVP. He's 22 years old. It's the only year he shot it well from three. He was 34% his rookie year. He was 30% his second year. Then he was 34%. And from three since then, 31.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Granted, you could throw away 23, 24. He played nine games, so he was under 30%. But this year, 44 games. He's 29% again from three, and he's never played more than 67 games in a series. That was his rookie year. It's 63-57. Yeah, in a season, you're right. And then this year, it's 44. My issue is this. It's a couple of things, and I'll make them quick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
When he got into trouble, and this is, again, me only reading everything else everybody else read, so it's not like anybody talked to me about it, so maybe the NBA had more information. I thought it was an excessive... punishment. Okay. As dumb as it was, whether he did, I did too. I was saying at the time, I actually think this is pretty excessive in the NBA is like trying to set an example here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So you have this shoe deal, you have the max contract. I mean, he's getting paid major guaranteed money the rest of the way. Like this guy's about to be, he's on the cusp of like being one of the faces of the franchise. And I think everybody felt really good about it because he was so goddamn fun to watch. And when he did the interview with Jalen Rose, I was like, Oh yeah, That scared me, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It scared me because there was like, oh, you actually think everybody else is the stupid one here? And so as I continue to watch which direction it's gone, four straight years of the advanced stuff going in the wrong direction, and when I've watched them this year, and maybe, look, you know this team a hundred times better than I do, and the frustrations with the offense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But I also felt like his play led to more frustration where it was just this high barreling, like, let me in the half court, them trying to figure out a way to get him free led to him just being like, I'm going to I'm just going to barrel into dudes and then I'm going to bitch and I'm not going to get back in a defense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And when you start doing that kind of stuff and you're distracted with the game, even though I know a lot of guys complain, I just found it like unlikable. And I'm sitting there thinking, if this is the face of your franchise now at twenty five, I do think you have major problems in a way that I was hopeful for him three years ago. I am not today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Great veteran leadership.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, but I'm just saying, like, if you're going to Marcus Smart to solve your locker room problems, you made a mistake. Derrick Rose is a different conversation because I think people love Derrick Rose. And I think Derrick is like awesome. And everybody loves that, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, you can't. That's not a title team because there's a problem. And it's interesting that you talked about Taylor's relationship with John. Again, Verno knows this stuff way better than you or I do. So I'm deferring to you on this. But like knowing how Zach is and how, by the way, he's been awesome. Like if you just go through all the transactions, like he's generally been really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He's kind of ahead of people on some stuff. There's so many players on this roster that I do like. Like I like Aldama this year. I always liked Bane. I fell in love with Triple J this year just because I feel like he took it to another level of just All of his offensive stuff. I think the ED thing's pretty much the way I thought it would go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And, you know, there's been some nice players here or there. You know, Vince has been hurt. Gigi's been hurt. Shot selection's an issue with those dudes. But there might be something. Like, if I go through the roster, there's a lot of stuff that I like that the front office has done. But if they're as analytical about it as people suggest...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
then how is Ja as a high usage, no defense, hurt a lot, can't make threes for four years, how is that even... It's like when Daryl was running Houston and he traded for Russell Westbrook. And you go, the only reason he did this is because of Harden. Because there's no way... Ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
There's never been a day in Daryl Morey's life where he looked at the Russell Westbrook profile and was like, I want to sign up for some of that. So I think Ja and Verno, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like it's a little bit like I'm not comparing him to LaMelo. I'm not comparing him to Trey because Ja at his best was in the conversation for one of the most impactful players.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Like kind of, you know, again, that third season, what we thought he could do, even though Trey's put up the numbers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But I would be worried that the decision about Ja would be about what a huge star he is in your hometown and how important that is that, all right, maybe if we're not winning the West, at least we have something that everybody's excited about and everybody's buying the jerseys because I think he falls into that category.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
They only lost by nine, but they got in it. They got back in it in the fourth quarter. They were down 25.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It's kind of crazy because it's really only one bad year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He's that much fun. I mean, when he is right, it's one of the most fun things in the NBA. But... I, I can only share like personally, like how I felt watching. And I, over the course of this season, I went from hopeful to, I kind of couldn't stand it anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
that's not every night you caught him on a good night maybe i just caught him on a good night you did because he's he's been back to pretty much normal now he's all over the place once he got back in his shape he was more that was the funniest thing about him when he came back with the lakers he was just so exhausted he didn't have time to complain about anything
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So you understand, and the listeners understand, this isn't about me talking about off-the-court stuff. I mean, I'm sorry, but I think there's a lot of guys that are probably really immature that we never hear anything about, and they're some of our favorite basketball players. So I'm not even really putting this into it. What I'm saying is, I think there's...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Again, because of who he was in that third season, I understand how he sees himself, right? He should. I'd rather have a guy who's confident out there than second guessing himself. But the more I've watched this year, when I think about like, hey, it's another year where he can't hit any shots. It's another year when it's the wrong night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He's just flailing into the paint, hoping somebody fixes it for him. And there's just a lot of possessions that I don't love. I go, all right, well, if this team's in the playoffs, like I'll tell you right now, I don't care which year you pick them to be the two seed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I bet you if you went through it, I think all seven other teams, one through eight, would want to play Memphis in the first round this year, at least this year's team. I don't know that anybody's ever been scared of them. Maybe you take offense to that in 22. You might be right because that was a pretty good team. But...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It made all the offseason stuff make sense. When you blast out a guy's entire assistant staff and don't really consult him to bring in the new assistants and then run an offense that I don't think he wanted to run, that they won too many games for them to do something ultimately that they really wanted to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It's just going for this young group that is right now supposed to be scaring some teams. It is going in a direction I did not think it was going to go to when 22 finished out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And for them to do this when everybody thinks he's a pretty good coach and considering the injuries, for them to do this, this means they've wanted to fire him for over a year is my outside take.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, right now, I mean, that group for the two seed is Golden State, Minnesota, and the Clippers. Nobody's going to pick Houston against them except people from Houston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
There's an argument if Kawhi is healthy that they should be, they should have the second shortest odds of any team in the West and make the Western Conference Finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, he's a big wing. He's listed at 6'4". So 6'2", short dude.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He was shorter than SGA. I love it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You're going to need him to close some playoff games. So, you know, this is your guy and you're going to have to let him make his mistakes. And then also the nights where no one can stay in front of him. And you just hope that there's enough spacing around it. And that's where Emei is going to have the Shingun situation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He's probably not going to want to close double big and clog up some of that stuff because that's all he's going to run. They're going to run some pick and roll for green. And, you know, last year, you're right. I mean, to remind everybody, when Shingun was out and hurt, that's when I felt like the light bulb went off for Jalen Green because it wasn't just the scoring and the efficiency.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It was the playmaking. It was understanding the help and all that stuff. And now this year, you know, it's been kind of up and down. It's been better lately. I think the key for them is that even with Van Vliet and the numbers where, you know, they had some – there's some numbers out there that are strange with clutch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I haven't looked at it in a couple weeks, but Oklahoma City had one of the worst clutch defensive numbers in the league. And then you go, okay, what does that mean? Do they get tight defensively? Like they said, they're just not good enough. They're not old enough to play good defense. It probably just means that that's what the numbers are. It doesn't mean anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And the same could be said for Houston's offense, where when you looked at their clutch closing numbers, you just went, well, this actually, this is what it looks like, except they had a really good record. Like when you watch them in some of those moments against a good team, you're like, what is it here that I like? Is it a Van Vliet Hail Mary?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, or do I want Jalen Green going, I'm going to take off, and I have no idea what's going to happen on the way there. But look, with Van Vliet, they're 38-17. And so part of it, believe it or not, thinking because of his stature, he's going to get targeted, the deflections and all the stuff that he's always done going back to Toronto, he's just better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He impacts them in those moments because he's just somebody who's a lot more trusted, who's played a lot longer. So I love watching Houston. It's just going to be hard for me to pick them. against one of those veteran teams because Golden State feels like a new version of it. With Kawhi, it's a new version of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Although, as soon as you want to throw at me Harden being like, wait, Russillo, you're picking Harden to make sure this team gets to the West? Well, it would be Zu, it would be Norman Powell, who is terrific again today. And again, it's healthy Kawhi with all that stuff. And then on top of that, Minnesota. Minnesota just feels better now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Even with those Pacers losses that were kind of crazy because Obi Toppin didn't miss any shots against them for a little while.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
The Minnesota part, which makes me like – they're 11-3 in their last 14. If you go through the March numbers, DiVincenzo's – it's a real thing now. He's hit threes. This is the best I've probably felt about Jaden McDaniels offensively because it's not just the shooting, which has been great in March. But there's a lot of times with him I was like, I have no idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
If you get zero or 18, totally, like the odds would be even on both of them. And – A lot of series, too, if like you want to do this, because I know we're probably going to do this with a pacer. So I don't know if we're doing it now. But if you're looking at series and being like, how often will this team have the best player?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And there's some series and there's some matchups where it feels like Minnesota is going to have the best player. And that Denver game, it was before taping. I was super fired up. I was going to open my show with it because I felt like, all right, let's see what Minnesota has there. and there's certainly fluky results. You're like, what happened there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
That game felt like this is going to matter tonight. And for Minnesota to beat them by 20 in the way that they did, it has me where we've all just assumed like, hey, it's the three teams with OKC, Cleveland, and Boston, and then Denver has to get the benefit of the doubt because they have the best player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
With Jokic, which is where I've been for most of the season, I'm really worried about Christian Brown fighting against SGA. and fighting against Ant and being the primary guy. Maybe they'll throw Peyton Watson at them as some size thing, but Peyton Watson's best defensive stuff to me is at the rim, helping.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Look, if he was that great on the ball, then they wouldn't be playing Christian Brown so many minutes against these dudes as the primary defender. Nothing against him, but he's fighting for his life against these dudes. That's the thing that I've seen from him in some of these more high-profile matchups. So,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Sure, there's some weird results we have every night throughout an NBA season, but that game in particular felt like something and a bit of a reminder. And now the fact that they have all of this outside shooting working for them, Minnesota is, and it's not that they were bad. It was that we went into this year thinking, can this team win a title?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And it hadn't looked like they had any chance for months and months. And I'm not necessarily putting them in that group, but it's now the best that I've felt about them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, no. But I think Finch will look at it. No, but there's certain coaches, like we were talking about Emei there a bit. You know what he's going to do? He's going to look at how the last five minutes are going in a playoff game, and he's not going to give a shit about anybody's feelings. And if it's Amin Thompson out there instead of Jalen Green because he likes it, then fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
If it means Benzing Shingun, fine. He'll do it. And I think Finch will do some stuff here too, whether it's a weird Gobert night or a Randall night where it's not working out, where they can –
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Oh, no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Hey, the Lakers, the Lakers that night where they beat them, where they just packed the paint and they were like, let's have guys keep one foot in the line. When it was like weak side going, if there's two over there, we don't care. And even if Aaron Gordon shooting 40%, we don't care. We're ignoring him. We're ignoring Westbrook. We're ignoring Watson. We're ignoring, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And certainly Brown, even though like, you know, there's some nice numbers there from Brown, who I think a lot of it can be influenced by Jokic. And so if you're running that two man thing and you don't really care, like I'll never forget watching that Golden State series against Houston in 18. And you're like, wait, Houston, could they win this? And I loved it. They were so aggressive in that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
They just said, we're guarding three people and we do not give a shit about the other two. We're guarding three with five. And that's the best part about the playoffs. And honestly, to your point, Bill, like when you watch Houston or you watch Minnesota or all these different things, I wouldn't trust anybody that tells me they know what's going to happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And they know definitively, like, this is what Houston can do or what they're not, what they could do, but what they're going to do. because there have been... We thought we knew it. Of course, we were surprised by sports all the time, but we thought it felt pretty clear going into this season of like, this is kind of how deep the West is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And instead, it's just OKC with these coin toss teams, depending on the week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Good luck. By the way, though, good luck getting a starter, like a starting five NBA guy. Be like, hey, you're picking up 94 tonight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Sure. But in regular season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And they got to play small against you guys, too. That's the other thing. They love being like, seriously, we playing Jackson 15 minutes tonight. We can go with Rui. Like, I think that's the preference. And that will be when we see these matchups once the season's over, you know, we get to play and stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
That's going to be a huge part of like the Lakers path for me to be like, how long can they go small? Right. And who's going to push them hard? I think they'll go small against Denver too. I think it's going to be on Rui just to be like, look, we know he's stopping him, but you're just going to stay in front of him and he's going to get his numbers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But at least he's, look, I don't want to say contained, but I thought Rui fought really hard in that game against them when they were matched up. So credit to Rui Hachimura.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I'm telling you right now, you guys are going to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, this pod will come out. You'll win. Jaws is going to have a great night. And there's going to be like an immediate, like in the moment, like, oh, my God. And then he'll get traded to Atlanta in two years. And then you guys will be like, Ursula was right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Clayton Jr. of Florida. The shot that he hit, the three, where he ended up taking it out from the paint, sprinted to the three-point line, and then turned around, won. Not only had the Stones take it, but make it. Look, I'm late to college basketball. Because of St. John's, I was watching more this year. Free time. I'm not going to be watching it instead of NBA. We already know my deal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But I really got into all the conference championship stuff when they played against Tennessee in the SEC tournament. I texted the team and I said, hey, I just looked at ESPN.com. I understand Clayton Jr., the argument against him, but he's not even a second round pick. And they're like, no, he's a pro. He's a pro. He is an absolute beast. beast of a player as far as just the confidence.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So Walter Clayton Jr. was at Iona, goes home to Florida, and now the Gators are in the Final Four. That shot that he hit in that game and that comeback against Tech And that was that was big time stuff. And look, he had a couple of the shots earlier. How had some big threes as well. So I think that comeback when it looked like it was over with only a couple minutes to go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I've loved watching this tournament. I know, you know, look, the next three games in Elite Eight weren't really exciting, but this has been I've watched a ton of this tournament.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He's older. He's been around. So that doesn't help. He's 6'3 as a guard. He's not necessarily the most athletic dude, but he just, I love the way that guy plays basketball and it's not just that shot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Do you want a little timeline of it? So DiVincenzo pushes Stewart on a rebound. go to a dead ball, Stewart walks directly at him, bumps DiVincenzo, and you're like, that seems a bit excessive. Then, DiVincenzo, moments later, when we get back to action, off a miss, barrels in to Fontecchio, And Stewart doesn't like it, stands over DiVincenzo, grabs the ball away from him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
DiVincenzo probably said something, but he was sitting on the ground. As soon as he goes to get up, he shoves DiVincenzo, right? Yeah. Gets the technical.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I don't know. He's third in text, though. I was surprised. It seems low. Yeah. Ant's number one, actually. So then we have Ron Holland, who is just a young apprentice Jedi to Isaiah Stewart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I don't know that anybody said it before you of like, look, local people that are on the Pistons are all over it, but Holland has a switch. And so he got knocked down on a screen again, which was that whole Bickerstaff game when he freaked out and said, we're not going to be disrespected.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I think he is a bit of like the head of the snake thing where it's, he's so hot the entire game that some of the other guys pick up on that. So Holland gets knocked down. Then the next time he has the ball, he drives it Nazarene and hits a really nice floater baseline over him. Okay. So then they come down the other way. Nas wants to take it Holland. And I was like, man, this is fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
That was a fun fucking Sunday afternoon game for us out West here. And Nas totally overreacted to the Holland part of it. So then he starts going at it. DiVincenzo, third man under the ring. Holland pushes him off. DiVincenzo goes for the massive like neck push down. And all I'm watching is there's a scrum right in the baseline courtside seats, Bill.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, they're like... I don't know if I should say my least favorite team, but I have to get all the way to Dallas before I'm as not as excited about another team. And depending on how the scene goes... In the West, you mean? Yeah, if you look at the West and you say, you know, what's the best case scenario? Because it's just crazy that it feels like not that long ago...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
All I'm waiting for is who's going to punch Gobert. because it's this extra target. It's like there's a skyline, and then there's Gobert. Who built that? Like, oh, this Japanese guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But the problem was that Stew was already like, I still need to mess up DiVincenzo, but Sasser was trying to get to him. And it looked like DiVincenzo was on a ride at some point. I would say this. For a Pistons team, and I think we touched on it in the very beginning, This team's like, I know we're going to do this others group, but they were nine and 15. They're 33 and 17 since that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So over 50 games, they're 33 and 17. Their net rating bill over these last 50 games is fourth best in the NBA. So yes, Isaiah Stewart is looking for a fight all the time. You really, I think every team needs one guy like this. If you have two, it could be an issue with Holland.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, you love having the one, though. Yeah, so I could tell you there's some... Stewart completely overreacted. Nas overreacted on his part of it. But damn it, this team has sucked. And so if this is part of it, I couldn't believe it when I saw fourth best net rating in the NBA over the last 50 games. Then let the boys watch, you know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
This was before today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And you have to almost throw out every Dallas stat prior to the acquisition of Gafford and P.J. Washington.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, I think this was always the idea of Beasley. I was always shocked. A team would bring him in and be like, oh, we need him for his spacing. It's 3 and D. Where's the 3 and D part? And I know that the shooting numbers will tell you that over the years, but I just never felt like I ever trusted him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
This is a team that was a two-seed back-to-back seasons. And you're like, man, what could this team do? And this makes sense. And we're all excited about John. They've got all these nice young players. And you're like, okay, these playoff losses, these are their... We've talked about this a lot the last couple of weeks. These are their seasoning seasons. And then they have their injury issues.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You know, there's certain guys, I can't even write it down and say that this is true, but there's guys that I know, like Andrew Wiggins is hitting the three in the corner with four minutes left. He's not hitting the corner three with two minutes left. And there's a bunch of guys, like Beasley has been so huge for them, spacing alone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I mean, when you start sorting out what their numbers are, they're seventh in offense in the last 50. They're fourth in defense the last 50. They're ninth in shooting. They're also playing a million guys, which I don't know what that means for them in the playoffs. But in March, they played 11 players, 13 or more minutes, which we've already touched on with the Pistons. But I am with you in that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You've got to throw away the first couple months because it was new. By the way, Cade, as I keep saying, by the way, here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, Cade's missed four straight with an injury that shouldn't be that big of a deal. But the Pacers, if you want to do the 51 games with them, because I was doing it like, all right, what's your low point record-wise, right? And then what are you since then? So the Pacers, at one point, We're below .500.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I guess I don't have the record stuff in front of me, but they are 34-17 since December 5th, the same number. I guess now the Pistons are 33-18. Some of their ranking stuff isn't actually as impressive as Detroit's is, but that expanded standing stuff that I always like looking at, like how do you do against those teams over .500,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Other than Cleveland and Boston, who have really good records, if you look at the East, the Pacers are 16-15. The Knicks are 12-18. Detroit's 10-20. Milwaukee's 11-20. This has been a really good team since that stretch as well, but the wins against the 500 teams tells us the Pacers are better, but I still think it's open for discussion, which I'm now going to pivot it back to you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Do you like one team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And remember, Hardaway was just out of the rotation last year, too, and at times, you can't roll him out there, just see what happens. They weren't done with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And then when you watch them this year... They still had a decent enough record. Even 11-14 isn't really that bad, but when you look at, as Verno says, the record against any of the good teams, if you look at where they stand in the West in the expanded standings, they're 11-21 against teams that are 500 or better. Oof. You know, Golden State's 500. Minnesota's 14 and 20.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Okay. Uh, just for the record, I think game three hard away played like 19 minutes and missed every single shot, but they got killed in the third quarter. Um, I don't know the answer yet to who I like more between Detroit and the Pacers, because that Pacers record against 500 or better, I think, is a very telling thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It's one of the most important things I look at when I'm getting ready for the playoffs and be like, hey, are you actually beating any of these good teams? I mean, this is a perfect second part of like the Memphis like, OK, what's your seed? Oh, you have the worst record against 500 or better teams of the top eight teams in the West. Like that's something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Right. The Halliburton part. Remember last year, pre-All-Star, his splits, 22-4-12 shooting splits, 49-40% from three. After the All-Star break, you're like, oh, what happened to this guy? Now he's dealing with a bunch of different injuries, 17 points, four boards, 10 assists, the shooting splits. went down to 45 and 30. That's in 26 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Pre-All-Star this year, 18, three and a half, eight and a half assists a game, shooting splits, 45, 37% from three. And you're like, this is a really long stretch of Halliburton not being the All-NBA guy. Almost an entire year. Right. Granted, it's only 15 games, but since the All-Star break, he's 22 a game, almost four boards, 11 assists, 54 and 45% shooting splits.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And so that, again, it's only 15 games. It's a reminder of this dude that we got so incredibly excited about. It was so bad during that long year, we almost did a pod of, was everyone wrong about the Sabonis trade? You know, kidding around, but it's just how many times we kind of litigated a bunch of different trades that have happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But even with that, there have been times where I go, do they... Maybe it was prior to the All-Star break, but I'd be like, do they trust Nembhard a little bit more? That's not the case right now because Halliburton's breaking the paint. He's just flying around. He's doing all the stuff that we fell in love with when he was in college. You're like, this guy just sees the game in a different way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
They clearly have a Neesmith-Matherin decision. I think that they like Matherin better. And the funny thing is with Neesmith coming back, because they had all of these injuries that really held back their depth, I would think that Neesmith would be the primary defender unlike the other stud, and it looks like they may like Nembhard better. I don't know what that means.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
The center rotation problem. So if I said, hey, I like the Pacers because of the record, and then you go, okay, but... The Pacers, defensively, the numbers are a little bit better than you would think because they were a disaster last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
They're better, but then it's a bit like the Knicks where you go, okay, I've got these other defenders that maybe give me a chance, but if it's Turner, who's been in decline... as the back line of the defense. And then, I mean, they've had to play Thomas Bryant 15 minutes a game in March. He's got a massive negative net rating. They've even played Tony Bradley like five minutes a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So it's still marginally better. The Clippers with their stuff are 14 and 22. You got to get to Sacramento, who's the 10 seed right now, to have something that resembles how bad Memphis' record is against those teams. So, you know, look, is it Jenkins? No. You know, Jotz supposedly in that piece from The Athletic talked about how he didn't like the offense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So like the center part They don't really have any other option at all unless they want to go Siakam and play small in a certain matchup. But again, back to my Knicks comp here. It's like this fun team we all really like, but it's like, do I really take them seriously enough when it feels like the head of the snake in Halliburton can be hunted and then your center is somebody that...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
people feel like, you know what, we're probably going to have a really good chance attacking them over the course of a series. And I know Pacers fans get really upset of us maybe nationally being dismissive. It's like, hey, we made the Eastern Conference Finals last year. Well, let's go through it, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I mean, Milwaukee had the injuries, the Knicks had the injuries, and it was a fun four games against Boston. Those were really fun games. but it's always going to fall into the category of kind of like Atlanta's Eastern Conference Finals and Portland's Western Conference Finals. Like, congrats on getting that far, but no one expected it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Right, but if they win game one, then Boston's going to, they're just going to, the series is going to feel different.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I mean, the irony of this is that the Finnish guy now that's the new head coach, This was part of the offense that he brought from Europe. And I know when the NBA thinks, where do we go for head coaching? It's like, let's start in Finland. But I think LaRoche, the other guy who was let go with Jenkins, he was big on this offense too. Here's what I know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You can run whatever fucking offense you want with this team. I know exactly what it's going to look like in the last couple minutes. And I'll be honest, this is like the first season with Ja where I go, I think I'm out. I'm not all the way out right now. I don't want to make that official statement because he's still young enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But when he's the face of your franchise and leader, like, look, man, Verno texted me a single-tier emoji on a face after I did an Open a couple years ago. It's the Whoop That Trick game where they beat the Golden State Warriors. They're down 3-1. They won by 39 points. I think Recency Bill had a take that you can't win an NBA championship having that kind of loss in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Recency Bill came out big that day. Right, right. And... I know it was fun, and it's probably a memory a lot of Memphis fans will have because that was a lot of fun for everybody that night. Ja, by the way, didn't play in that game, if anybody needs that reminder. And look, it's going to be a little mean, but my initial thought watching that game was these guys are losers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
,,,,,, Uh, look, if Colorado state doesn't give up the queen game winner, then I don't know if the headlines are different, but since it's all blue bloods, not necessarily blue bloods, but like the power for conferences now, and it's 16 for 16. And then it's all chalk all the way. Like this was an historic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
If you looked at some of the Ken Palm stuff, the top four seeds going into this tournament, their combined, whatever his ranking system is, it was the, the highest four quality teams you'd had in tournament history for one seeds since they had expanded this thing. Um, and not to 68, like we're going back almost 40 years. So we knew on paper it was going to be really good. And, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You know, the way the Duke-Bama game played out, like, Bama was a really good basketball team. They couldn't... It wasn't shooting variants and not making threes. There was no good shots available for them for 40 minutes. Like, what Duke did to those dudes? A good, a really good basketball team in Alabama that felt like they were in the mix or the same tier as a Florida or an Auburn.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And I wanted them to get their asses handed to them in game six. And they did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You know, look, you're going to dig them a little bit because Auburn looked like the best team all season long and everybody fell in love with Florida as they won the SEC championship bill. But to watch Alabama...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
go the whole game being like i guess i'll just shoot it from here again because we can't get past the perimeter guys we're never getting into the paint we can't post it up against these guys even if we get a screening we get some angle malawatch is coming over here this dude started playing basketball four years ago and he's seven foot two and he's altering every shot at the rim um
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, look, I I've loved watching this tournament, even if it hasn't been the buzzer beater and the drama stuff. So and I need more than I always say this kind of stuff, but like I need more than one year results. Just say this is now the new normal. Now, it's very clear the mid-major programs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
The strength that they had, the advantage that they had against some of the other higher-profile programs was that they had continuity, that a lot of their guys were playing together multiple years, maybe even a little bit older, and sticking around. We ignore that in basketball far too often. It's the same thing in the NBA. Like, have these guys actually played together for a long time?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Like, that's a massive advantage that I feel like is never, ever talked about. Or at least we've diminished the importance of that continuity. And so maybe this is the first year of the new normal, but I would need it to be like this. And in a single elimination, like, we're definitely going to have Cinderella teams again. We're just going to have weird scores that'll happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It just didn't happen this year. And the top of the field, as we knew going in, was historic anyway, and it's played out that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You know what? Perfect transition. Because then in the next year, they lose to the Lakers. They lose in six. They lose by 40 points in game six. And everyone blamed Dylan Brooks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, Tech almost won. I mean, it's going to be tough for Tech fans today going, you kind of blew that one. But again, we've already been talking about the Gators and the shot making. They just, everybody between Houck and Clayton Jr., they hit every one of those threes when they needed to, and then they missed the front end of the one-on-ones on the other side twice. But Tech...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
was looking like they were going to run away with that game with post-ups, old school post-ups. Somebody, somebody was sitting on a couch. A young man listening to us right now was on the couch with his father, maybe even his grandfather. And he was like, that guy reminds me of Adrian Dantley. Although Adrian Daly probably had a little bit more face up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Like I could have just gone real old school post-up guy. Uh, and I don't want to use McHale here, but they got back into it because Florida could not handle the big guy Williams, I think from, from tech who just was destroying them. And it was space.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, right, because you could see Florida's like, we don't want to double here, and then they finally had a guy overplay his shoulder so much that it kind of screwed him up a little bit. Yeah, look, man, even Tennessee, what Tennessee did to Kentucky in that first half was horrifying. It was, I mean, the energy, the effort.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I think because as NBA guys, whenever I dig into the college stuff, there's this abruptness, this shock part of like, oh, my God, like who's actually going to score? Like, do they have like we're just so used to the NBA now. It's weird if there's two guys that aren't offensive threats on the ball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And in college, you might have lineups where it's always three guys that aren't really a threat with the basketball. And they play so damn hard, especially in these tournaments, they're just going to play harder than anything you're going to see in the regular season in the NBA, for the most part, which would only make sense. I don't even think it's a criticism of the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It's just the reality of it. That once you get past, like, what the hell are they doing? Is anyone ever going to score? That's a terrible shot. Or where are the shot makers? Like Lanier, I know Tennessee gets eliminated today, but that guy's like one of the... just pure shot makers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
right well dylan brooks brought it on himself a lot too like that was this that was the off season of where it was like get ready to learn china buddy and it was like you know i'm saying that wrong on purpose but you know he was like i'm gonna be the bully with lebron and then no no he said i poke bears right but i'm just saying he wanted to be the bully in the series against lebron and then he didn't want to do a media availability what twice after like two of the losses right so
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I watched all season in college hoops, like, damn, like this guy's getting into this kind of stuff as a college player. And so you have Tennessee just swallow up Kentucky. And then they go up against Houston where you're like, I don't know, like, are a couple of guys going to get their careers going to end in this game? Because you know how physical it's going to be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And granted it was 29 to eight with three 38 to go in the first half. And Houston was, basically reminds Tennessee, like you think what you did against Kentucky, you're going to be able to do against us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And the Kentucky even has, or excuse me, I think Tennessee had the ball down 10 making this run and they played so hard to close this game, which is a credit to Rick Barnes and everybody with Tennessee. So I'm going to say nice about something about the team that lost here. I don't know how many other teams in college basketball are able to hold off the effort that Tennessee was playing with.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And yet Houston was able to get it back up to 20 because there was about this six or eight minute stretch where I'm like, is Tennessee going to find a way to actually get back in this game? And if you can appreciate the effort and obviously the pageantry, which we've always talked about in the past, it helps you get over
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
some of the moments where there's just such a gap between the shot making ability and you know how clunky the college game can look at times because a lot of it times like these guys are busting their asses every single rebound is a wrestling match I think the shot making is I just wonder if basketball is just going to another level as we're watching it just at all levels like you watch some of the drives and the finishes that the college guys have
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Now, wait, if you're missing Bobby Hurley, do you feel like you didn't spend enough time with Steven Ashworth this year or Creighton?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So I did a little exercise. I was going to save it for my pod, but I'll do it now. The Cooper stuff. Now that I feel I'm caught up on him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I asked... I asked, I think it was, I don't think I got 10 responses. So maybe I'm not as cool as I thought. I think I sent out 10 texts to NBA teams being like Zion coming out, Cooper coming out. So I have eight responses. What do you think the vote is for Cooper or Zion?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, we can't do that. It's a little hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube because we have all the Zion information, but go back to when Zion was coming out. What's the number one pick? What's the question?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
If they were both coming out with only the one Duke year behind them, how would you rank Cooper Flagg and Zion Williamson?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
5-3 in favor of Cooper. So, not the most scientific polling. I don't know. Interesting, though. But it doesn't represent, it's just, you know, you could have five guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, right. Because I mean, you know, clearly when Yama was generational, but not a college background. Right. Doesn't count.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Hey, look, and Brooks has proven he was worth the contract. My overall thing with this team, Verno, is that it went from this really likable underdog, we don't give a shit, this is who we are, you know the Grizzlies' identity, to... You guys haven't done shit in like four years. And I know injuries are part of the story. And it's like, I'll watch some of these games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, I mean, he's definitely there's way more anticipation for him than there were Anthony Edwards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I don't know if it's because I grew up such a passionate hater of Duke. And then once I started working in the business, I just started respecting it a lot more. And the weird thing was that Zion year, I found myself doing the impossible and like not hating Duke and wanting I wanted him to advance, which is I don't think it's ever happened. And, you know, it's a it's a big East ACC thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It's very natural to fans. I mean, I know you're sick of hearing it. But when they're killing Alabama and then they start sharing the notebook and it's like, hey, you lost last year in the Elite Eight, NC State, and John Shire's like, I had to examine, re-examine the entire program top down. And we needed to re-emphasize these things and we needed to build this team in a certain way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And I'm listening to all of it. It all sounds incredible. But I also think that people have a habit of, in certain industries...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
making their job seem like it's more challenging than it is or complicated perhaps is the right way to say it because we all know coaching this kind of program is complicated for everybody it's going to just wear you out but i'm sitting there i'm in my hotel room and i'm listening to all this stuff is they're killing alabama and i'm thinking like so you had to have a philosophical adjustment to want to bring in three lottery picks yeah is that the whole goal every year
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah. You know, we examined everything. We did the work. We triple checked everything. And we thought, hey, we have a chance to have three lottery picks. They're all huge.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Should we do that? Phil, does it match our new philosophy? And it's like, you know, I bet it does. I looked at the mirror.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Now it's like, let's soup up the barrels? I have no education on it, so let's start there. But I found it a little weird that I didn't know that you could just make your own bats now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It's like, dude, you guys carry yourselves like you've done something in this league. They do not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Did you see Nestor came in and gave up three home runs on three straight pitches? Yeah. Torpedo bats or did they hate him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
What could you have named it to prevent the pushback, though? Something less hostile, the human bat? Like big barrel bat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Josh is insufferable right now, Chris. He's insufferable to watch right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, dude, we've talked about Stephen A. How many weeks on this pod?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I didn't. I think some quotes, like anything with me, I thought some of the quotes made sense. I thought some of the quotes were ridiculous. And I'm sick of talking about them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I read Tim McMahon's Wonder Boy Luca book. How was it? Which I really enjoyed, and I enjoyed having him on. It was a sports book. It was like 380 pages. I was like, oh, right, Tim. Here we go. This guy's not sending out a little pamphlet with Luca on the cover. No mail-ins for Tim. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I was like, because, you know, some of these sports books, I don't like reading them that much anymore just because in my free time, I don't want to do more sports. Yeah. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And she was awesome. She was so nice. And then I was telling her because she lived in Maine and I was telling her, you know, what we did for work. And I was like, well, I'm pretty aware. I know what you do for work. Because I was like, do I play it that I don't know who she is or do I say, hey, I know who you are. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And I said, hey, look, I'm not going to pretend that I don't know who you are because I figured it out. And then we were talking about Maine and I was talking about Martha's Vineyard and I was talking about Vermont. And then she was like, I don't really know that much about basketball. I said, well, funny enough, I'm like this guy right here. And it was during the Duke Alabama game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I was like, this guy's from Maine and he's the best player in college basketball and he's going to be the number one pick in the draft. And she was like, that can't be normal that he's from Maine. And I said, look, you're already on your way. So, but yeah, really nice. Like not, you know, she's a huge movie star and she was like totally friendly, normal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And then I was like, Hey, I got to get back to the game headphones. And she's like, you headphones there. But she was ready. She was like, I'm going to watch a movie. She's like, we'll check back in in a couple hours. And I was like, deal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I have a pump cassette tape that I was wondering if I could get autographed. So you had phones there. That's a really interesting move. Yeah, see, now that's going to be the part. I didn't really realize that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
What's your best famous person encounter on a cross country flight back to LA? Cause you never know. Like when you're, when you're leaving another major city and you're on that direct, that big boy flight, maybe you're sitting up close, a little closer to the guys driving the plane.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
2003?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Look, I'm going to give you credit here because you would find a way to get past the awkwardness. Because like you, let's not kid ourselves. You've been in this role.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I don't know. I've seen you. I've seen you in settings where I was kind of shocked at how... How I could navigate stuff? Yeah, how cool you navigate, like, different stuff. And I remember even asked. It was, like, another director. I was like, he's just going to sit over with those guys the rest of the night? And the guy was like, I've never seen anybody like Bill.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Like, Bill can hang out with those guys. He can hang out with those guys. And, like, look, we're talking... different backgrounds. I think it was the documentary. Was it, was it the juice world documentary? And I was, I was like, he's just going to hang out with those guys all night. I was like, that's, and it was like, yeah, man, Bill, Bill can just, he just can move. He can move.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And he navigates all this stuff really well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
That's amazing. Yeah. So she then she then told you that he was texting her like I understand him. He was texting her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You're literally text. You're telling the one person that you shouldn't. I mean, other than the people making the decision, but if they had already offered. So I guess there's I'm trying to think where you were ranked on the worst possible people in the world to have that information. So I guess there's probably like four decision makers there. Right. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, because I remember, I remember you being really excited in support of that signing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
i uh i'll be honest any encounter i had with rick in person was fun yeah he's a good guy i really ended up liking him i ran into him a couple different times and he was like incredibly cool to me um and the first time like i was a complete nobody yeah so he had he had no reason but i think he thought i think he might have thought i was somebody else maybe that's why he liked me but um
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
That's really, really funny. Didn't they put him on SportsCenter too? Wasn't that part of the thing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
The best is that she told you that then she was telling her stop talking to him. I think he was yelling at her in text. I would have been like, you can't, you got to stop. And then she was like, well, now it's too late. I'll never forget like in my stretch of like the skipper meetings that I would have, you know, like when you were lucky enough every now and then.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And he was, when you had your first skipper meeting, As an on-air person, you were like, oh, okay. Now I know why this guy's in charge. Because he fucking kills it in those meetings. He's just so good. It's not even that he's just folksy. He's making all these points and you're kind of like, I thought this before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And then now I left and I totally get why you did that and why you did this and why you did all these things. Because then he'd also like try to make you feel like you were in on something he wasn't telling anybody else. He'd be like, I was watching SportsCenter the other day and I saw someone on and I didn't know their name. I didn't know their background, Ryan. And I thought, that's bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I'm here every day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And I was like, I do not know this person. That's not something that should happen on television. So when the Riley thing, because there's a lot of people that are pissed off because Riley that always felt like, hey, is somebody who doesn't work here? Let's pay them way more money than somebody who doesn't work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Right, and I didn't even bring it up. It was almost as if he was just like, I'm going to let Ryan have this piece of information, and then if he's ever at a cocktail party with somebody, again, I never went to any of that stuff, but like, you know, like, well, Rick Riley was a great signing, because he was like, we spent a few million dollars, we destroyed Sports Illustrated.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, it's also like, yeah, because print killed it in every other avenue. Yeah. So was that a Rick Riley thing or was it a print thing? But it wasn't even whether or not Skipper was right. The lesson was...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Sharing your strategy in a very clever way where you would gain allies for a decision at the time that was very controversial internally because on-air people are maybe the pettiest people ever. And if somebody comes in from the outside and he was going to surpass so many different people salary-wise, people were just going to be pissed because that's what happens. Well, I was one of them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, no, I know. I remember.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Uh, yeah, no, thanks for having me. The Goodwill hunting thing was awesome. It was, you guys are so good. You shouldn't see our, ah, you fit in great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, I was really good on the pod. I'm not being humble. I'm just saying you three are also very good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Is that what he's going to learn to shoot?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You can have an OG game. Hart can go off. Brunson's still going to be the focal point on all this stuff. He's a stretch five, which I think is almost mandatory if you're trying to be a title contender. But we know their defensive numbers are not good. We know what they are against those other top teams. And today wasn't really close, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Did it feel like it was anything that was happening to them? Because Brunson got off to a really slow start, and then those guys go nuts. I mean, what was it, 38 points in the third quarter?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Because Brunson got coronet a couple times. And then I thought there was another time where it was like the same movement where they're going to get Brunson down the left side. And they brought Tatum over as like a third defender. And just were like, fine. So I thought there was these little moments in there that kind of back up what you're saying. So go ahead.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
No, my thing with Tatum has been pretty consistent that as much as I loved him, and I think I appreciate him, that there was never going to be a time where that guy's the best player in the world. That seems like an impossible goal to accomplish.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, he's... Look, this is the most I've ever appreciated him. Me too. His passing... The way he beasts guys, like a team the other day, we were just kind of like bullshit because Goldsberry and I had done constructing our most complimentary starting five of today's players, right? Yeah. And I just, I put Tatum on it because I felt like he provides so much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I mean, he's basically playing point guard at this size. And I don't know that that gets talked about a lot nationally.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Right, which is what he did in the NBA Finals. Now, granted, the game's different, so it's not like he's down in the post against Moses Malone for 40 post-ups a game. But he was a center on defense. and he's playing point guard. And, you know, maybe somebody else brings the ball up, but then they bring it back to him, and it's his decision-making.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And so, you know, maybe there's some output stuff that doesn't line up with the SGAs or the nights where Ant goes fucking crazy, you know, which is just so much fun to watch. Like, Ant having one of those nights is probably still my favorite thing other than just a reminiscent Curry flamethrower game. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Honestly, I'm probably... I would tell you, like, there's certain moments with Ant that I probably still like more than any other single player in the league. But... Tatum just has more options around him. I still would say Boston at its peak has more options offensively than even Oklahoma City does. I don't know if there would be much of an argument there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So even though you're not getting that peak output that would maybe put him in the belt conversation, I am so happy with his approach. that it's, I'll take this. His assist ratio on the advanced stuff has never been better. You know, a lot of the advanced metrics are like peak for him, but there's also, it's not just a counting thing. It's not even the metrics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
There's just an eye test thing with him where how steady he is. Like he had a baseline drive on OG where he went right into him and moved him off the spot and got the free throws. And I'm like, how many other guys 20 plus feet away would have the balls to drive at OG and look like the stronger player? So yeah, I've never been more in love with his game than what I've seen this season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You really think it's... Well, I think you've already answered that it's kind of a closed case, but... I mean, at any point, do you think, I mean, I guess he's got a couple years to go, but is he going to surpass SGA?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but, I mean, aren't they, are they 12-3, 11-4 in the last 15? I mean, I know it was 12-4. Yeah, but I'm talking about, like, the stuff they were doing last year where they were just, like, ripping people's heads off for three straight weeks. Yeah, they're 10-2 in their last 12. Yeah. This kind of feels like it, other than the start. Maybe we're in the middle of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
They also had that, I don't know, what is it, seven-game stretch there in November. So the weird thing was just a couple games against lesser opponents, a Toronto game. They could have lost a New Orleans game. And the standard for them is so much higher. But that first quarter was so impressive overall.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
that, you know, I was just a nice little reminder, I think on a national stage for everybody of like, this is what this team is capable of. And I don't know that there's anybody else. I've granted you talk about the OKC defense, which I'm sure we'll get to a little bit later today. Might be the tiebreaker for a lot of different people, but those first 12 minutes were just awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I agree. And it's the defensive numbers. Like you mentioned it. If you go back the last 15, that's the number one defense in the league. They're 12 and three is the best record over the last 15. Do you understand that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, I think having some of the pieces... I thought Rui played his ass off last night, both. I mean, you can look at the points, but it was what he was doing defensively. Now, granted, Vando comes in and just hacks the shit out of Jokic, but it's like they're not going to call all of these, although they tried to call all of them on Vanderbilt because he didn't play a ton of minutes. But...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You know, the Cam Reddish thing seems over. The Dalton Connect minutes are limited if you start looking at these things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So I think we gave Vincent being healthy with Vando being healthy with them liking this Rui center matchup stuff because they're basically forced to figure this out because the Jackson Hayes minutes usually aren't that great because the longer he's out there, the longer there's going to be something that happens. Yeah. And specific to last night, Bill, I loved that game. OK, me too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I thought it was really impressive because we look at the playoff and you go bracket wise, like how far can L.A. go as well? They're going to run into Denver again. So that's not going to work. And last night's one result. But I thought this coaching staff showed the difference where it's always about the roster for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But there are little times like Kenny Atkinson this year with Cleveland, like clearly there's something better with this, with his approach to basketball. I think JJ and the staff did such a fantastic job of last night's preparation. the possessions when you really looked at what they were doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
There's these non-spacing lineups that Denver runs out there outside of Jokic where the Lakers are like, if this is what you're going to run out, we are not going to pay attention to Aaron Gordon. We're not going to care about Westbrook. They had a play, and I'll finish here, but LeBron was on Jokic kind of in the paint, left side. Dalton is in the dunker spot, ignoring Aaron Gordon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He's basically under the rim. The other two wing players to the right the Lakers defenders are in the paint. So that's four players in the paint against Jokic. The only one that was providing any spacing was Michael Porter Jr. At the top of the key and Rui was defending him, but Rui was only a foot beyond the free throw line.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And you saw possession after possession where you could see the Lakers, like specifically the way they prepped that game last night. I think that's a credit to JJ and the staff going, we've got to come up with something new. That's Jokic specific and, And it worked in, you know, really wasn't much of a game on top of all the Lucas stuff that I know you want to get to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So are you in? Are they your fifth team? Are they the first team outside of your tier one playoffs? Like title contenders?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Campaign was nice, though, that first shift. He was. He made three in a row. That's probably the best thing ever for a Knicks opponent. Be like, hey, don't forget, like, tight game second half. Campaign made three in a row in the first half, so that's good for us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, he has been good. I think some of the worst anti-LeBron content that I've ever seen was Luka's stat lines those first three games with LeBron. Like, I get it. If you hate LeBron, you hate LeBron. But come up with better evidence than that. Because I went to Luka's first game that he had played in like two months. I went to Crypto that night to watch him play against Utah. And...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He was so tired, like four times up and down the court. I'm like, oh man, I'm like, he's so tired. Like he doesn't even, you know, he hasn't been complaining. He's on a new team. Like you haven't seen him. And it was kind of funny. Like obviously last night's the best that he's looked with the Lakers. That first half was incredible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
The way he was kind of getting into a shot, not like basketball is funny, man. you can be this incredible player. Here we are talking about somebody who has a chance to be the best player in the world. And it's like, I'm, I'm new here. So I'm just trying to fit in for a little bit. Yeah. And if, if you're a coach and you're, it's Luca, you're like, don't be trying to fit in to just do what you do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And then we'll figure it out around you. And just because the stats were bad and then they had the weird breaks, like all that stuff was so stupid. He was great last night. It was funny too. Cause he, he made a play and then he cycled out of the three point line was wide open and he didn't get the ball back. And it's the first time I've seen him pissed with the Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And he put his hands up like, you idiots. Like, what are you doing? And I'm going, this is great. That's what you want out of this dude. You want him pissed that he didn't get the ball back. So I'm shocked the defensive numbers are that good the last 15 years. It's been a big part of this turnaround. They finally beat Denver, so I'm not ready to say that they've solved Denver.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You know, there's just going to be some spacing stuff in the playoffs where if it's Westbrook or if it's Brown, and I think even Michael Porter Jr. 's like such a coin toss game. Gordon is a matchup specific guy, but they're going to ignore him even though he's shooting like over 40% from three. They just did a great job of loading up on all this stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But look, man, you're closing group in a tight playoff game if the three perimeter dudes are LeBron. Luka and Reeves, I have a hard time believing that defense is going to be just living on stops, though, in the playoffs. Right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I would say if over 50% of your tweets are about LeBron or Jordan, then you should just be banned from the platform.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I don't know. That sounds great. Thanks. What is it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Weren't they below 500, too?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It feels like the Knicks are on the Lakers' line of this, though, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Okay, but here's something that I like about the Lakers because I think this is always an important thing. Because I think guys play more often now, because this could get really misleading sometimes. You're looking at matchups against the better teams. You're like, okay, who was there? Even when I go through those Knicks seven games, it's basically everybody played in those games for the Knicks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I think OG missed one. There's different times where you go head-to-head and you're looking at it and getting ready for the playoffs. How do they do against each other? You're like, all these guys missed these games. Again, like I said, it's been a little bit better. The Lakers are one of three teams in the West with a winning record against teams 500 or better. So clearly OKC is 20 and nine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
The Rockets are 20 and 15 and the Lakers are 15 and 12. And I think that's important. Memphis is under 500. Denver's under 500. The Clippers are under 500. Minnesota's under 500. So again, like I said, only three teams. The rest of them are all under 500. I think for me on the Lakers part of it is we're totally aligned on the Luca thing. Like, give me a break.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Like this guy at this age with his track record and because he hasn't played in two months. So you're like if you were watching these early games going, what's wrong? So this is what you think it's going to be now. You just think this is going to be like, it's going to be a mess. You know how absurd that is. So it's we're not even at peak Luca. They're putting together this performance.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
They have this defensive profile the last month or so. But, you know, bracket it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I'm great. A lot of reading, a lot of history, the beginning of civilization. If you have any questions, we'll get to them maybe after the basketball. I'm ready.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
four or five they're playing houston you're probably picking the lakers because you trust their offense more than you trust houston's offense right okay then then guess what's waiting for them on the other line sadly i sadly i did this and as you know i hate the lakers and this made me sad okay but how i mean by serious i was like oh my god they're gonna fucking make the western finals so they're beating oklahoma city in a one four matchup you're crazy
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Right. And then you think they're going to beat Oklahoma City?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, I want to see more of the Chet stuff, but defensively, the Chet stuff has been really good. It's not the same as the Luka thing, but we're looking at Chet missing three months and then trying to come back. He's not taking a ton of shots. I can't wait to see what that guy looks like and what this team looks like. They still have a massive issue with certain matchups and bigs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Normally, I would say, what are you going to do against Jokic? Do you really think you're going to survive seven games against... Rui was great last night. But let's not lose our minds about who this team is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
No, I'm on this huge Susan Wise Bauer kick. But again, I think we should table it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It isn't a very long list. I mean, Pat Bev really went for it last night. I think he tweeted out they have the best one through four in the NBA. And I was like, who's the fourth? It was like Rui. I'm like, all right. I think you're forgetting about Boston. And then OKC with Chet. I think there's a lot of guys that you could pick from there that would be in the conversation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But as far as like number three guys with Reeves, I mean, is it Derek White?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Is Mobley Mobley? It's just a completely different kind of player. Like I'd rather have Mobley than Reeves, but offensively like initiating your own stuff. It's not even a conversation. Reeves is so good at it. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I wasn't shocked. Yeah, but the other starters are Dorian Finney-Smith, who, by the way, we hadn't even mentioned yet for the defensive part of what they've done. Huge. Getting D'Angelo Russell away from this basketball team. I try to tell you guys, Lakers fans, I know, I get it. He makes a couple threes and points, and you guys are super into that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But getting him away from this group has also been a big transition from who they are right now. I feel bad we didn't even mention Dorian Finney-Smith at this point. I mean, he made one shot last night, and he was a plus 20.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Why?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I know. I just don't think Philly was ready for the Keon Johnson-Watford two-man game to close. They had no scattering report on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I tried to turn that game off like four different times last night. Yeah, you couldn't. I hate watching the Sixers play basketball. Yeah. They are disgusting. Okay? I can't. But I can't turn it off. And then I was like, that's close. And I'm like, look at Brooklyn. Look at this team. No, they can't stop. Now they're ahead of them. They're ahead of them in the standings in the East. They flipped it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Exactly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
What's his F per 100? Do you know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
His life looks a lot easier having somebody like Jimmy Butler out there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And the shooting numbers would back it up. The three point shooting would back it up. Even watching the beginning of today's game, even though it wasn't just super aggressive, like having Butler just be somebody else that people are worried about. And of course, they ran some other play where it's like Curry's the lead block on the cut.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So everybody freaks out and then Butler kind of slips a screen and then he's the second cutter behind it and he's wide open. in a way that, you know, he's probably like, this must be, I just can't imagine playing basketball for a living and then getting the chance. Like, no wonder everybody's in a good mood. So like, this is what happens. Like when he moves, all of this other shit happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And then now my life is like this much easier. Although I do have to point out on a couple of broadcasts, like our memories can't be this short. Like Butler has a nice game. He's super aggressive. I mean, he was taking 10 shots a game for Miami. It was the lowest field goal. Not going to foul on at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, no, he was actually still was like not he's he's one of the most like hyper free throw rate guys in the league because he pump fakes at the rim and guys just go for it all the time. So like if you played him in a series, you go, you guys going to stay down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
against him now he's shooting a million free throws but he's just more aggressive now you can tell he's taking 13 shots a game again the shot count goes down because he's taking so many free throws right but he for all the stuff that he talked about in miami like they took my joy from me like he broke up with a quarterback uh you're just going like we just saw this guy
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
destroy his value around the league. And he makes a couple of cuts and hit some free throws. And it's like, man, golden state, like, you know, everybody who's golden state is probably still scared to death of like what the longterm thing could be here. But in the short term, it's, it's awesome to see, you know, some of these possessions late in games where you could just see step being like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I'm running around, I get the ball, I'm trapped, I throw it to somebody else, and I don't even want to take some of these shots. And then you have people being like, oh, his shooting is dipping. It's like, well, no shit. So I think his life is going to be a lot easier now. I still don't even think they're in the Lakers class, though. Do you have them in the Lakers class?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It reminds me a bit of when Brian Heideck was cast as the pool guy in Melrose Place, and he was like, look, I'm just happy to be here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Heideck. Who's that? Brian Heideck? Yeah, he played the pool guy in Melrose Place. It just reminds me a lot of that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Google it. Right. Hi, Nick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Late bloomer list? Is there any hope for a healthy Orlando?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Their offense in their last month, they're the third or fourth worst offense in the NBA. And boy, when it's bad on offense for the Magic, I'm surprised it was that high, that they were only 27.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
How many people do you think right now know what seed Detroit is?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You want to do a little Clippers profile or do you want to save it? Want to take a break? Yeah, let's take a break.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, I'm glad. I don't think we spent enough time on Minnesota because I think we did 10 seconds on it. And I know they lost in the Houston game. That was just kind of a frustrating game. They didn't have Rudy, but sometimes is that play to their strength now when you look at some of the declining Rudy stuff?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But then that also means Houston can go small because even Houston against Utah last night, they lost because Utah's size bothered Houston. And granted, Houston's kind of rotating some guys in and out, so they're not playing with like the full cast of guys. So, look, sometimes you're just going to lose to Utah when George decides to go all first team NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But let's just say, OK, open, like open to the idea. Like, I feel a little bit better about Minnesota maybe than I did because in the beginning of the year when it was frustrating, it was like this team's healthy and these other teams are hurt and they're losing to these teams. Um, but there's just a Randall stretch here where it's like, man, this, they might just be better without this guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He doesn't care. I mean, I'm sure he understands it. In the brief time that I had access to him, we were at ESPN together. He's so smart about basketball. Like, I think I left the room just going, do I know anything?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And they haven't had DiVincenzo for a month either. You're going to go might for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's good for 20. And it's like, okay, but there's just a lot of other stuff that we need from him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
25, 28.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
No, they've done a good job. Like Terrence Shannon's been playing well. Clark, this other young players coming in, he's been good for him defensively. And, um, yeah, like I'm not disagreeing with any of that stuff. I just think there's certain dudes that maybe I defend because I like them, but I think I like and dislike players for very valid reasons. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And for the high-volume stuff with him, I think the ball just ends up back in his hands. And he's getting trapped, he's getting a ton of attention, and it's up to you to figure all that stuff out. I mean, he had a play against Houston where he split the screen, and it was...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, because, I mean, I've told this story before, but we were watching a game together. And then it was an inbounds. It was a simple inbounds play. And I just went, what? And they ran through like seven different things that you could do defending this inbound. And I just was like, Jesus. And look, this is what everybody says about him. We know that he's brilliant, but yeah, he doesn't care.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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it was two defenders that came with him and he just split it in a way where I just couldn't believe and believe like it was physically possible. And then he almost throws it down from there. And so because he's capable of doing some of that stuff, I don't know that he wants to take those shots. Like some other players, like again, you just go through the list of guys I don't necessarily like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think they're totally fine being like, cool.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Per 100, he's like 2006 Kobe. Yeah, like we haven't seen somebody take that many shots per 100 possessions. That guy should be in the all-star game. He should be. Well, the other reason he got so many all-star votes is somebody pointed out to me after the fact, and they're like, do you realize like if you...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, the voting was still open, but if you went to the voting tab, it was done by points per game. So he was like the first option when you went to the page to vote as a fan. Also, he's popular.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We are going to have a lottery ones as well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I really, really enjoyed it. That was one of those deals where it's like, whatever I'm doing tonight, I'm watching Minnesota and Houston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Are you serious?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Do you remember him in that Lakers series? Where people thought his career was over?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, he did it to LeBron in a way, but LeBron was just not going to fall for it. But the thing that turned everybody off... Yeah, LeBron was way older and smarter. Right, and then Brooks couldn't make a shot, and then he didn't do a media availability, and it was like, what? Yeah, I didn't like that either. Nobody liked it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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it was an awful lake. It was like, people were going, get ready to learn China, buddy type of stuff. Yeah. I mean, he was a China meme dude. And then all of a sudden he gets a huge contract from Houston and to Houston's credit, like they desperately need him. And yeah, you know, I, what I liked about that game is this amend Thompson, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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progression is like nightly man you have to watch him every night to see it and you know you and i were talking about him we did that pod for the trade value thing i was like yeah doing this at the worst possible time because you're gonna lose your shit about thompson but i feel good about i thought we were properly careful while also respecting the moment where was he again he was like 19 Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I think when you looked at the earlier part of this week, because New York, we know the record against the top three teams, Boston, OKC. In Cleveland, they're 0-7 now. But they played in Chicago on Thursday, and it was an overtime game. And here are the minutes. Precious, 46. McHale, 44. Cat, 43. Brunson, 38. McBride played 42. And then he played three other guys, 17 minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I had said something and I remember I was pissed when we did it. I wasn't like mad. I wasn't like mad the next day type of mad. But I was like, you know, are you still going to run like pick and roll for him in a late possession? And you were like, well, they did on the game winner. And I was kind of like, I didn't want to get into it with you. I was like, there's four seconds left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They inbounded it to him and he uses athleticism and he hits the game winner against Boston. The stuff he was doing against Minnesota and even some stuff that I saw last night against Utah, like the drive and kick stuff that he's showing now. Granted, we know he can't shoot yet, which is the funniest thing about how much we all love watching him play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The joke is he's not even good yet, and it's this much fun. But he hit a shot because Utah just didn't respect him. He hit a shot late last night where it was like, I'm catch and shoot three. I'm not even going to dick around with this. I'm getting this shot up. I'm going to make you try to come out here a little bit more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There's more and more ball handling with him where they trust him, where there could be this amend Thompson reward of these Van Vliet minutes as disrupted as they can be because clearly they need him to organize them on offense, even though they have all these clutch wins, but all their clutch numbers stink, which is one of the weirdest profiles. Well, then nobody can create a good shot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But he kind of does know that there were these kickouts in that Minnesota game where it was a very clear, like, when he takes off, he's going, if I don't have this, I know where to kick it out. And it's also just awesome having Jabari back as, you know, the stretch option because, you know, it gives you some more flexibility with Shingun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Because I'll admit, there's some, as I can't say it, some Shingun nights where, where I'm like, what's up with him? Are you there at all with that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, and Adams at this point is kind of... Do you know how old Steven Adams is? Isn't he like 28? It's like some crazy number. Yeah, he's 31. Right. But he's been in the league for 25 years? Yeah, I don't think he should be this bad. So having Jabari back is really important for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I was looking at some of that schedule stuff in the expanded schedule where if you look at games against teams 500 or more, which we've already gone through in the record stuff, but Denver's played 26 games against teams with that, and Houston's played 35. So scheduling-wise, they've been a little unlucky.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But then when you look at the remaining schedule stuff, I mean, it's the top three most difficult remaining schedules. It's Phoenix, Denver, and L.A. Houston's like down at 18. So it should, because of that number in the record I told you about, it should even out. Like, I can't wait to see what L.A. does. Yeah. Torrey missed the game. So, you know, I'm not putting a ton into the Utah loss.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I put way more into the Minnesota win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So they go into that Cleveland game fresh off of that. Where Cleveland, I think, was coming off a back-to-back. And you could see within that game, you're like, they're toast. Boston had the extra rest day. New York had the rest. So, you know, that third quarter was awesome because Brunson and Cat are awesome. But, like, I couldn't believe he put Cat back in after he left with the lift.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Give it to us. There's no other word. Body language, Bill.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, it's not Bud's fault that people can't come over to help on cuts. And Durant had a bunch of those. Swiping late, out of position. And if you don't believe me, I think Van Gundy was on the broadcast of that one too, being like, what? It was tough. What are you doing? And Durant puts up these numbers, but I mean, there's some stuff here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And look, the worst thing Durant did was tweet that the NHL has loyalty and doesn't trade his players, which is still one of the dumbest tweets I've ever seen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, it was during the whole stretch where it's like, why don't you watch something else? And you're like, all right, dude. When you look at their whole thing here, I don't know. Rebound is usually a number where you see rebounding decline. It kind of speaks to effort and all that kind of stuff. I mean, he's under five rebounds a game in February.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The crazy thing is some of the other numbers are nuts because the guy can't miss a shot right now. The shooting splits are incredible. Right. Free throw attempts are down the last couple months. I don't know if this is part of this little decline here with him, but he still gets his numbers because the guy is so brilliant offensively. It's kind of up to you, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's kind of up to you to be a part of the solution here. They've tried some different things. And they're just not very good, even when they're winning games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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After he twisted his ankle. They were down 18. It's like, do you want to get stuck with some Tatum isos? Yeah, with two minutes to go, let's do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't think he's wanted to be there, man, going back to last summer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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No, I don't think. I think there was pretty strong indications that if he could have gotten his preference to go somewhere else this summer, he would have done it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You don't think so? You didn't hear anything?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Um, I don't really enjoy them. I looked at it last year. Remember, we kept waiting. Hey, I don't care about any of the stats. And the fourth quarter stuff didn't make any sense. It was so bad, it had to be an anomaly. And that part of it's been fixed a little bit. But even with last year's injuries and guys missing games, they were 38-28 through 56. They're 27-29 now after an 8-1 start.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They're bottom third in offense and defense the last month. Katie's only missed 13. Booker's only missed three. The Beal bench thing, it doesn't matter because I don't think that dude cares at all. You know, I really, I just don't. So they're just, you know, they needed those three guys to be just top level, not to sound like a soccer analyst, and they've rarely gotten that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Although Dallas in the running.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I've done this assignment. If you go through every ownership transition, the new owners fuck up so bad within the first 12 to 18 months. Like even Cuban, when he brought it in and I never forget him being on with Dan Patrick talking about acquiring Rafe LaFrance. And I remember thinking like, what the hell is he doing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then Cuban just so good after 10 minutes of Dan Patrick, I was like, oh, I guess getting Rafe LaFrance is a good idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I would be so determined if I owned a team to not screw up in the first 18 months. I would just be like, say no to everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, the fact that he changed course so quickly after he'd already started like, you know, it's like digging a hole for a house and going, you know what? It should be over here now. No, you can't. I mean, even then, eventually you'd have a house at the end of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, but the problem is there's no single piece that's as damp. I mean, I guess you could get into the Tatum and the draft picks and all that kind of stuff, but Tatum wasn't playing for that franchise and having everybody fall in love with them over the course of seven years. I saw a quote the other day on the Luka trade where somebody had said, we had underestimated the reaction to this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Multiple people said that. What did you think was going to happen? And it just sucks even worse because AD gets hurt immediately. But the other thing that I love too about this, and I'm going to make this joke throughout the rest of my career, is this stupid fucking timeline people do and talk about and how married they are to the age timeline of NBA rosters. Like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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we need somebody on this timeline it's like so if cooper flag if you had like the number one pick would he be too young to put with kairi and ad now like he's not on our timeline yeah right like as if every rebuilding team everybody has to be between 18 and 22 and then any team that's like going for a championship it's like this guy's 25 and good what the fuck are you guys doing it's way too much of a gap with the rest of our timeline and all this stuff so
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Or when I thought you nailed it when you were tweeting out about that really good feature with the owner who's, what is he, the son-in-law? Married into the family. Patrick, is it Dumont?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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No, I go on Instagram and constantly like single daughters of NFL ownership, their pictures. I'm like, oh, killing it. Nothing creepy, just really tasteful stuff. Be like, oh, it's such a great sweater. That party looks awesome. Yeah. Oh, my God. You guys, that's so great that you guys reach out to the community like that. Keep doing you. He went through all of these players.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Clearly, Niko had gotten to Patrick. It was basically to be on brand here. The messaging should be like, we here at the Dallas Mavericks want people that are fully committed. And clearly, look, it's no secret on the Luka thing. He wasn't committed enough. I'm not going to make the argument that he was and was misunderstood.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But you can't then run through all the list of players and be like, Kobe and Shaq. When Shaq himself would admit that I could have done a better job, and that was the whole reason of the Kobe-Shaq divorce, is that Kobe fills line to him being like, your 10 is unattainable for everybody else. Your 10 is their 7, and they don't understand that there's a higher number. That's your gift.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That's what makes you you. So holding everybody else to that standard is completely pointless. All you're going to be doing is wasting your time. So getting on Shaq's case, because he's not going to approach the offseason the way you are, that's unsolvable, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And so when he went through the list of players that he admired because of their work ethic and their conditioning and all that stuff, and as much as we all love Shaq, he'd be the first to admit that he didn't take it serious enough while he played. So it was an awful quote. He wouldn't have been in my top 700 list for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Did he, did he say that to you? He didn't. What did he say to you? What's the most meaningful thing that he ever said to you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. I didn't realize that until recently. And he didn't say he recommended game change the book, which I did enjoy that summer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's a good book.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Let me ask you a Philly question off of what we just did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Does anyone actually make a baked... I've never even seen one. It's the most referenced food item that I don't even think exists. Never seen it on a menu. I've never seen a presentation. I've never seen anybody order one. I think it's fake.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So you're shutting everybody down?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
There's no point. Why is this NBA thing going to look better this year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
If I were a CEO of a company and I wanted to short my own stock, but I couldn't just say it outright, I would hire Paul George to run PR.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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See, the problem with it was is that on one hand, you have Daryl pulling a rabbit out of his hat in a way that very few GMs can. You know, whether it's having a top five player in the world when he's healthy in Embiid, because that's what he was. I mean, but, you know, even if you don't like him now and I don't like him now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Um, you have a guy who's going to make multiple all-star teams, most likely in maxi. You hit what? 21st pick. And then all these other little things and you delay the maxi extension.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You figure out a way to move Harden out because you knew after that playoff series, it's like, I don't really want to extend this guy to whatever was talked about and how many different versions of that story you've heard. And then you have this cap space that almost never works out for anybody. And then you have this rare instance where the, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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In this case, the Clippers, the incumbent team, decide they're okay losing the asset for nothing and not giving this player who's all NBA level a fourth year. Like everybody just gives him the fourth year. Like, why are you not giving the fourth year? So you have this one team that's deciding to not give the fourth year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And it's not like they weren't going to pay him a ton of money in the three years, but they're not going to give him the fourth year. Like, who cares? Just do the fourth year. You'll figure it out later. It's better than just letting him walk. And they let him walk. So now you can use this cap space on a guy who in theory is all NBA, even if we would say that he feels like with all of his talent,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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like at the end of it, Paul George is probably going to be kind of a disappointing player for his, for his career. And now he's even worse. Like when they've needed him, when other guys have been out and you've needed him to be this alpha, he's just incapable of it. And then on top.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So like, it's all of this credit on top of, to your point, like is George personality wise, the guy that fits into Philadelphia and knowing what the standard is and knowing what the expectations are. And it's been, is it more disappointing than Phoenix?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We've spent so many years, though, talking about guys not playing with effort, effort, culture. All that stuff came up big time this past week with the Four Nations Tournament, how great that was. And I spent some time talking about just like, look, the sports are a little bit different. But I think the NBA is a much better place than when you go back five years ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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If Melo had been in the East, I think he probably... If you go through all the Melo playoff stuff, for the most part, every time he lost to a team, it was a team they were supposed to lose to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That's fine. In that series. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, there's nothing. He doesn't even have a moment. That used to be my Vince Carter argument was like, where's the playoff moment? Because for the longest time, and I know you'll be right down the middle on this one, people were actually trying to argue like Paul Pierce against Vince Carter before the 08 title. And you would just go, come on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There's a level to like, you've got to have some kind of playoff moment. And for Vince, for the longest time, he didn't have anything. I mean, it might have taken all the way until he hit a corner three for Dallas. So... Maybe it's just because Paul George at one point was in this conversation of like, could this guy be the best player in the league?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And, you know, I guess you could do the same thing with Mello because early on, that's kind of how you looked at Mello. And then the playoff part of it, I can't sit here and defend it because it's generally really disappointing. But I think for George and some of those Pacers years, you were like, is this guy? And then it took forever for him to have like a playoff series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You felt like you could trust him. And that, that was like Harden-esque, you know, for him, it was like, what is going on? And then they had, they had lost Kawhi. They had that Utah series where Utah, I think had that really good record in that two-year window. They, you know, they kind of got Gobert stuck in a spot where he's trying to defend everybody. So he was really, really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It was like, okay, well that's like, finally, like there's something there to kind of point to there a little bit, but. And he just needs to be, I mean, we're back to the beginning of this whole thing. He is incredibly disappointed, but he's so bad right now that I can't believe he's doing podcasts. You tell him to take a break. I would just be so embarrassed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Obviously that's not going to happen, but I would be embarrassed. Being a dude who comes in with the four-year max and like, hey, we need you to be the guy throughout all this Embiid stuff. And Maxie's numbers aren't as good because I think Maxie was pressing and trying to go like, all right, I guess I'm going to take 25 shots and I have to raise the risk of what some of my shots are here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I mean, it depends on which snapshot you want to take of like, man, these guys miss a lot of games. And again, a lot of that stuff was team mandates. So I don't know that any of it like I know that actually the answer to it. None of us loved it. So I do feel guilty with what I think is Tibbs approach that, you know, when you're on his team, like this is what we do. Like, this is what we do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Is there any part of this that you would disagree with? Because even if he's older and all this different stuff, like, man, year one, this is what it looks like? It's just so frustrating.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, but you know what, dude? I'm sorry. I'm actually going to re-push back on your pushback.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, right. Because if you look at the Thunder during those post-Durant seasons, they're getting blasted out in the first round. They lost to Portland in five games the year he was third in MVP voting. You know, and he has one of those horrible, horrible game sevens where you don't even notice that he's out there. And like, look, we've made this joke before. You know, it's a really simple test.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like, do I forget you're out on the court? Paul George should never be somebody with his skills, with that contract, with Philly's injuries this year, where you forget that he's on the court in the fourth quarter. And it happens all the time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Let me just finish this Clippers point, though. Oh, please do. Because, you know, their defensive profile is incredible. Lawrence Frank in this front office, they deserve all the credit in the world for doing something that I just don't think a lot of teams would have done. Most teams would have given Paul George the fourth year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And to your point, like maybe that tells you something if they were so adamant of not doing it. But then again, it's like, well, it wasn't like he was going to play for free on the other three years. But I just laugh when I think about the Clippers transactions this year, because it's almost like, hey, who are all the players are still doesn't like, let's bring them in. The hardened one they need.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
They need his usage, the highest usage that we've seen from him in five years. But it's not just that. I mean, they have brought in Kevin Porter Jr., who they moved on from, who, you know, you want to talk about playing your own game when you're out there on top of all the other shit you can get into with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
This is how hard we play. And this is this is the approach. And it seems like the players don't mind. It's just funny when they do those player surveys. It's like, which coach would you least want to play for?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Bones who couldn't make it work with Jokic like if there's hey man all you had to do was cut all you had to do was cut and you would have got second contract it would have worked out Mo Bamba who is going to just forever trick teams they brought in Kai Jones And then they were like, while we're at it, let's add Ben Simmons. This is an absolute anti-Rosillo heater of roster movement.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And they're pretty good. I kind of like the Ben Simmons move.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I tell you, that guy is like, all right, this Brooklyn thing's over. And then, you know, I just love that it was actually like a story of like, ooh, we're on Ben Simmons' buyout watch. And it's like, of course he gets to go to LA. Of course he does.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And if you want to make all your off-season videos, make them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Awesome question. Awesome question. Yeah, he's still young enough, but I've been worried this year. You?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
No, it isn't. And I do wonder if it's kind of like the, the disruptive pattern for him. Like, Hey, he's back. He's not back, but I know they'll rest them sometimes in there as well. It just, it feels like a 25. Like I'm not there yet, but watch. I'd like to. Yeah. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Jaw was really good against Orlando because Orlando never changes defense the entire time. So that was good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Right now. Are you suggesting a seasonal friskiness update ranking?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Last 28, I'll say 18 and 10.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Don't dunk the other night. What was it? Just... He almost got, like, horizontal to the ground. Like, at rim level. I don't know what was going on. Because I was watching... I forget which show I watched. Again, sports consultants available per diem. I guess you should say pro rata. But... There was a show the other day I was watching where they were showing like something from track and field.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
There was a track and field meet and they were showing the high jumper and he was like jumping over the thing where he would like there was no Fosbury flop. He just jumped over it. Oh, my God. Really? Yeah. So there was no one apparently on the set that would have been like, hey, you realize no one would ever do I jump this way. Yeah. And they didn't do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And if you had had Dern out there, he'd be like, this is how you do it. Because it looked like he was trying to high jump the rim when he hit this dunk. I'm so happy. I think scholars will look back at the Zach Cram, Cade Cunningham tablets as the turning point of his career. Because Zach did a piece that was like lit him up. Like, hey, this is who this dude is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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An incredibly high volume, inefficient dude. who may not have one go-to thing that's all that great. And it feels like from that point on, he became the player we all thought he could be. So I think the tablets will be a turning point on his... Interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It's amazing what shooting can do when you have a guy who's going to have the ball in his hands as much as Cade. Because I've watched an Orlando game recently, and we all love Paolo. I think that's established. And whenever I watch him, I just think of like, there's just not enough spacing. Because Suggs is out. This is too hard. It's...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Like if there was ever a team that would love a prime stretch five per Zingas to balance out all the other stuff the guys could do. And it's not like they had this massive overhaul this offseason because all the young assets essentially are still there. Although Killian, how about his possessions and passing the other night? Was KFC wrong or just early?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Killian back in the league. Just the simplicity of a little bit more spacing. You know, it's what every team, maybe there's just not enough shooting to go around, but every team should aspire to do that because it's just different. Your job is different now as his primary ball handler when there's just some people that you have to worry about.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And look, last night's Denver game is a perfect example. The Lakers did not worry about any of those other guys all night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You realize, though, this top, they have the sixth-worst record right now. Imagine if they tank and they end up with the seventh pick and it goes to OKC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, and everybody lost their minds because they didn't want to be a 10 seed when it was like actually smart for them. I was just one of them. Right here. Yeah, I'm looking right at you. I was talking about you. Right here. Who gives a shit? Are you still bothered? Do you ever drive around? Are you going down Sunset? You're like, I'll tell you what, though. Fucking Mavs a couple years ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Have you done zero times?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I think the criticism was outsized for what they actually were doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And I don't know how they're going to fuck up, but they seem pretty happy where they are. Or then they'll run a play where Keontae George in that Lakers game that I was at. I almost tweeted it out. Like, will you remember where you were when they came out of a timeout and Keontae George threw up a left-handed floater in the lane? I think it was actually a left-handed jumper.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Maybe it wasn't out of a timeout. There was another play out of a timeout where I think they turned the ball over immediately. They have a lot of on-ball guys with confidence. I will say that about the Utah Jazz. But who do you want to have win? If you could go right now, win. Because, I mean, if you think Scoot and Cooper flag the next 10 years over under three and a half titles.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There's it's still breathing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I'll probably like them better than the Clippers. When they have everybody? Yeah, I might even like them better than Houston. Here's the thing. I liked the healthy them. I thought they were better this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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before all this trade stuff like they were always a team that i had to say don't don't lose sight of them with all of this lucas stuff like i think denver paid this weird aaron gordon price where people were looking at what they were doing or what they weren't doing and you go i don't really care like if aaron gordon's gonna miss this many games he's so important to what they do let's see what they look like when they get him back and clearly lucas even beyond that and 80s even beyond that for aaron gordon on that part of it
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So I, I think you still have to keep it open for them, even though, I mean, imagine having three centers like this that you would feel so good about. None of them are playing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I don't think it's going to be. You think it's going to be San Antonio in the 10?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I think it's Sacramento. I mean, at least with Sacramento, I kind of know what I'm getting. You know, I know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You're right, and it's not just today. I thought Boston came out with a great, just an awesome approach, just pushing the ball in transition. That's when they're starting five with those five guys playing, and you're going, okay, this almost looks unfair. Jalen Brown was awful. I know he has points. So bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
No, I care about you sending me a deep dive thing that you've been just YouTubing it out like a high school kid with no friends. You want to do that really quick? I do, because I have one for you, because you gave me the assignment. Mine will be quick, but I know you really want to do this, so go for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I'm not. I mean, I'm, you know, look, who doesn't love a little Fleetwood Mac in the background, but go for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, that must have made him want to get back together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You just couldn't understand what his approach to the game was today, even though if you just box score, you'd be like, what are you guys talking about? It got better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
That's evidence. That's usually good evidence. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I think that's time well spent. Thank you. That's good, because I'll get into a band, whether it's new or something I want to revisit, and I'll be like, all right, I'm going to read about Dwayne Allman for an hour. So I actually do kind of like this stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Anyway, because I'll go through some like talking heads phases. I love them. And I like them so much that, you know, again, it's I'm not going to get to experience it the way people get to experience when it first happened. But I always think like I'm having less Claypool of Primus on at some point here soon, who's generally considered one of the best players of all time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So, you know, you're down 27. I mean, we could talk minutes because you're right about the minutes part of it. But to get it from 27 to four is exhausting. Yeah. Right. On top of whatever Tibbs is doing in the sub pattern. And then Boston, you know, the the only blemish on the entire like two year resume of this team is that you'll go. Are you guys shooting the other team into this game right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And in the beginning with Primus, you were just like, what the fuck is this? And I'm, I'm so fascinated to think of like what it was like when Les Claypool was like, well, I want to make the bass, the feature thing, and I'm going to sing these songs and they're going to be a little different. And my voice is probably not the most traditional rock star kind of voice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But then once you kind of buy into the whole thing, you just appreciate how great the music is and how great he is. But I can't imagine how many people told him in the beginning, like, are you kidding? This isn't going to work. And when I think about the talking heads, like I just imagine was New York so cool. Cause I read that. Please kill me. Punk book about just punk. And I read that city.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. And I, I'm glad I read it. And I'm also like, it was so disgusting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
that I couldn't you know what I mean like I'm gonna get through this it was so gross in so many spots and I certainly don't feel like a prude but after a while you're like alright I got it it was a weird time wait can I read you Silver Springs lyrics really quick and then you go to your deep dive yeah but you have to sing it just a couple samplings no I'm not singing time cast a spell on you but you won't forget me I know I could have loved you but you would not let me
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
She screams you man whore, I think, too, in there. No? I don't remember that part. Okay. Yeah, so I referenced her, I think, at the very top. I'm reading all three volumes of Susan Wise Bower's. The first one's The History of the Ancient World. And I just love it. She's a complete pragmatist about things. And I'm going through some of the early Egyptian dynasties.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And so I just finished the chapters on the pyramids. And I... don't understand why people love conspiracy so much. I know it was conspiracy bill. This may be offensive to you, but usually there's a very simple, the, the Occam's razor, you know, what's the simplest explanation? Be like, that's probably what it is. So there was another author, um, a Swiss author named Eric Von Dyn, Dynikin, Dynikin,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
who wrote this book about how aliens essentially built the pyramids. And he wrote this book in the 60s and it did really well. And then, you know, you always kind of wondered, like, what the hell is going on over there in Egypt? And if I had a kid and I couldn't answer that, I, you know, again, it's probably why I'm not a parent. You don't have a kid? No, but I feel like ill-equipped.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
If I had had a kid, it was like, what's up with the pyramids? I go, you know, shit. he's got me. I haven't done a ton of research and I want to just go based on the Swiss authors thing from the 1960s. But Susan's explanation of it, like after you read literally two pages, Bill, about the history of like how the pyramids get started, like, One small, it's six levels up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So the next guy's like, well, mine's going to be seven. And then the next guy's like, well, I'm going to do like eight, but then that one doesn't get finished. Then another one doesn't get finished. Then there's another one called the bent pyramid where, uh, They're just kind of like moving them further away from everywhere after the previous one was built, by the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Like what the hell is going on? And a lot of that happened in the third quarter. But like back to your original point. Did you have an open mind before today about the Knicks being in that one line? Right. Okay. Because let's run through the resume. It's 0-7 now against the three teams in Boston, Cleveland, and OKC. And it's also not close.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And that's called the bent pyramid because they realize halfway through construction that their angles are off and it's going to be too steep and that it's not going to hold up. So they have to like flatten it out a little bit. So there is physical visual evidence to this day of what would be kind of man's attempt at building these great works. And she just goes like, look, this one was small.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Then they tried to build this one. It didn't really work. This one was unfinished. And then this one's like really screwed up. And yeah, they've done a good job with the corners and it's a massive undertaking. But they just basically asked their citizens based on the Pharaoh's power of like, no, this is what we're doing, dude.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Like we're building it and we're moving these stones around and it can take forever. But we're going to leave you some water and maybe like a sarong or something. And then they master. Like any civilization, they become better at building these things. And all it took was like a couple pages for me to go, okay, well, that's the answer. Like, that's it. So now you're set. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So I'm going to have a kid is my point because now I can answer that question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
That's a really good, it's exactly, well, it's not exactly because I don't think anybody's ever accused despite some of the weird Vegas stuff of ever being built by aliens. But like, Yeah. Right. It's like, OK, now we've really got this thing locked in because we've been trying to build these things for years and years. And you go, oh, wow. All right. Yeah, that actually makes a ton of sense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
That'll never happen. No. They'll still mess up some pyramids. They'll probably still mess up some trades. It's 2025 and Luka just got traded. That should have been a 1975 trade. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
In those seven games, they're losing by an average of 20 points. And they're down big.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I think because they get older, and I'm going through this a little bit with my dad, where he'll complain about something sports-related, and I just go, what are you talking about, man? Do you not watch? Does your father not watch enough other games? Will he watch other NBA games that are non-Seltzers? No.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
These are blowout games. And they've allowed 125 points per game against those three teams in those seven games. So the data... Like, I really enjoy them. I think they're fun. I can't wait to see what happens with them in the playoffs. But... as great as cat has been, you can see against big wings and what Tatum's looking for.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, that's what it's like. I think it's a common thing with guys past a certain age is they're just so much older. They're selfish. They're incredibly selfish about what they want from their sports teams. Yeah. I don't know if it's a counting down the years. I'm not trying to be like morbid about this, but it's possible. it like my father can be so incredibly difficult.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Like I went to a sporting event with him. And now, meanwhile, the guy hasn't had to pay for a ticket because I've helped him, you know, which I'm happy to do as a payback for all the years that he took me to all the games growing up. But, Like if the Celtics get up big, he'll want the other team to make a run for his soul. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And I'll just be like, Hey, you can't, you can't fucking be doing that. All right. Like you can't, you can't be rooting on the other team for this five minute window. And he's like, I only get to a couple of these a year. It's like, well, you know what? You didn't pay for anything. The seat is awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And you need to not root for the Cavs for six minutes just so you get not only a win, but a close one. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
None.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Home row splits. These guys don't care.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, see, that's always like the funny thing with, you know, we're terrible because we live it, but Your dad, and I don't even mean your dad or my dad, but everybody listening to this right now, like your dad's advanced scouting is if the guy had two doubles in like a three-game series once.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Was there any part of you that immediately looked up Bregman's deal and then compared it to the average annual salary of Mookie Betts?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, I'm all over... Baseball America again. I renewed my subscription. It had been a few years. The Prospects? Yeah, Big Farm. I mean, that was my lunch reading for years and years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Like Tatum had a couple, like end of the first half, he had two switches into cat where he drives right on. Right. Yeah. And, and I think one work, one didn't, they weren't like, one was a really tough make. The other was a decent look. And then that play at the very end when he hits the three, he knew like Cat was like, I don't want to run up because this guy's like attacking the shit out of me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. The Bregman thing pissed me off just because I can't think of any transaction without Mookie. I'm surprised. I would say 38-year-old Bill probably have 7,500 words on the Mookie Luca thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
No, there was a lot of preparation on the Mookie thing. And I know it's not fair to do average annual salary because the Bregman thing can be a one-year deal. But one of the things about these commitments for these position players that historically have been so bad in baseball, with him, you figure he was going to age right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And you just go like, look, what his deal will be in seven years, average annual salary, compared to what you're signing for now and then what it will be as salaries keep going up. Um, although, you know, that's another topic that we could probably spend a lot of time on. Cause I thought that ESPN baseball news was crazy. Like it was like, wow, you guys are actually opting out of live rights.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You're going to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And if they're doing it, they're 60 years old. Do you remember when you used to do it? Because I did it religiously. It didn't matter who was playing. It was Sunday Night Baseball and I couldn't wait. Yeah, days are over.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
That'd be good to get some Celtics content in the pod. Fire it up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Good to see you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Tatum comes off the screen knowing he's pulling up because Cat is so far away from him. And that's just what they're going to do. And you're right. Like maybe Mitchell Robinson helps. Of course, he'll help if he's healthy. But solving this seems like a massive ask of that guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
They were so lucky with the injuries last year, and then facing a Dallas team that wasn't going to be able to exploit some of the weaknesses to the point where they didn't even really need Porzingis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So the whole design of this Celtics team, the whole reason why you move the assets you do at the time, and then remember the contractual obligation to Porzingis, because even if you liked him in that Washington season where he's pretty good, you're like, man, that is a leap. That's a leap of faith, but they had to do it to get him to opt out. So...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Look, when they're right, that first quarter, you're right. I don't know what it looked like in person, so I'll defer to you here. But that first quarter was just a nice little reminder. And they've been on a really good run here, by the way, too, after that weird 500 play stretch, which basically is going to happen to anybody in today's NBA. But that first quarter, I was like, man, is this nasty?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And they just do a great job. And here's the most important stat. Like, I'll ask it. What do you think the most important stat from today's box score was in this game? What was it, rebounds? Brunson, zero free throw attempts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I actually have to put him... The reviewed play or the inbounds when he was coming right to left?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He didn't even get any free throws, though. I mean, this is a low free throw attempt game. I think at the end of the third quarter, there were 16 total. Or I think Cornette then took a couple. They were letting them play. Especially on the Towns drives, they were letting them play. Yeah, but see, Towns... You know, it's it's amazing how productive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I don't know if there's anything in the NBA that I dislike more from start to finish that's more productive than his drives. And I think they're better this year than they even were at Minnesota. Slinging them up. The Minnesota tries are like, what are you doing? And he's been so good. This is the perfect role for him because there's all these other guys. You can have a McHale game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
No, I think my favorite stat, too, for Steph is that he was 22 shots a game in February, and now he's 17. And it's because... It's scoring more. Right. He doesn't want to shoot 22 times a game. Yeah. And there's some guys that'll never understand not wanting to shoot 20 times a game. And he could shoot 25 if he wanted to, and he'd probably be justified.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
But you can just tell when they were really... just grinding offensively, it was like, all right, you're running this first thing. Steph is cut off. He's coming around the back. Oh, he's coming this way. Oh, now he's coming around. So at least with Butler, you have to respect him even if you're not being as aggressive. And it was funny because I was looking at his numbers against Wiggins' numbers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And just the points per game are about the same. But the rebounding, the assist stuff with him, and Butler's metrics have always been really good this year because he's still getting such a ridiculous free throw rate because we've covered it. I mean, he's just going to get you once he seals you at the rim. But you're right. I think last night Moody was getting into guys defensively.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I just think there's a ceiling on what they'll be able to do. I'm surprised you would think the OKC series would be competitive because what they're unveiling with this Chet Hartenstein thing, Thank you. Maybe I'm trying to talk myself into it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I can't wait for Milwaukee's week, like going into the night and everything. Like I'm really excited about the Bucs for the next week. looking at that schedule. Yeah. Okay, but back to the original point, though. Are you playing the results on the Butler fit and also playing the results on the current Durant fit?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Where there's a, is there still a version of Durant where say, you know, the reason I always look at Houston is if Houston goes, okay, look, we've done a really good job here. We built probably as deep an asset chest as they're in the league, you know, maybe outside of depending on what you think of OKC in the high end. I think everybody understands what I'm trying to say here. Options, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Option depth. I'm like, oh, if we did this and this for this guy. Could you see... The Durant happiness thing is real.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I guess I could play Jabari. No, they're going like Jabari-Adam-Shangoon right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Okay, so let's go back to this. Is Booker kind of the Pierce phase guy? for Danny Ainge, say 2005, 2007 stretch, where Pierce is 28, 29. Remember, that's the only real stretch of Pierce's career with Boston where he didn't play, right? Because they were like, all right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
At that point of their careers. Right. So the Pierce year you're talking about is the 06 year. You're right. I mean, he's 27 a game, 27, 7 and 5. You know, he's taken 18 shots a game, which actually isn't even the high because he took a lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but he took 20 shots a game when he was 25. But granted, that Boston team. Yeah. you know, was six over 500. So that was kind of like the Jim O'Brien was like, you guys can do whatever you want. Yeah. Do whatever you guys want on offense as long as you guys play defense. And so I just know you're right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
So what was the point that Ainge always made? Cause you know, again, I was doing TV back then. I had a good relationship with him. I would ask him whether he was on the air with us or the times I would run into him with wall fam and just bullshit. And it was always cool that he would do it with me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And I was kind of in the mindset of like a younger guy that we always want everybody to hit the reset button. Like two years of not going in the right direction. We're like, yep, get rid of everybody. Hit the reset button. We all do it in the media. We do it as fans constantly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I don't want to do that. This is why this is good, because then angel just go. I want more players like Paul Pierce. Paul Pierce is he wouldn't swear, obviously, because it's Danny. But he's like, Paul Pierce is awesome. It is my job to build around Pierce. And it's basically the exact same age range that we're talking about with Booker. So there's one crucial difference.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I know what it is, but go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
So if Booker tells you, you're Ishby, and Booker's like, look, I get it. There's no... wiggle room here. And that's the biggest difference between the Pierce Booker comp that we're coming up with here is that there were at least outs. There was stuff on the horizon and with Phoenix and the new second and all of the stuff, the restrictions, it's far more restrictive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
This current situation, if Booker goes to you, you're Ishby is like, you know what? I know this, but I don't want to go anywhere. What do you do?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I would tell you that Reeves Camp really appreciates you bringing this up probably every six weeks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Grant Williams is hurt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Clearly the Spurs could not have thought he was going to be this good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, if you want to tell me there's some misses in there. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
He's an asset. The biggest thing to you is make him the offer so that LA has to match him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Odds are. Yeah. Yeah, I felt like the public stuff about ownership being like, you know, weren't sure about this one. Ridiculous. I mean... It's ridiculous. These owners run these teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
The number of trades they want to do, don't... Just over the years, you're like, what happened with that? And it's like, oh, the owner. Like, what are you... I remember how long it took me to finally just accept that... The owners are, they don't let somebody just go, yeah, what'd you guys do today?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
You know those.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Because like when Gaston, before Wick and the guys had bought Celtics, which is honestly one of the greatest things that could have happened. Yeah. Gaston would apparently just say, here's the number. And if it's a dollar over, it's coming out of your pocket. And that was it. Like as hands off as you could possibly be as an owner. But is that awesome?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Or does that actually suck that you can't go to your owner and say, hey, we have this on the table. And here's, you know, we can... Work with this, you know, if you allow us this and then maybe next year we cut it back down here, you know, I don't know if being that rigid, at least you kind of know where you stand and what your parameters are for a team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
But I specific to the Embiid thing and I like Josh Harris a lot, but you're not you can't tell me like you didn't want to do it. And. Daryl and the staff convinced you to do it. And Josh has been around sports.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, that one, that one I'm going to have a hard time believing because then it spins it back on a Daryl. And, you know, the difference between your relationship with Daryl and mine is pretty wide, but I think I'm always fair about it because I think he's really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
It's been a rough year. It does seem like it's one of those dumb cultural things
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
organizational like we pay Paul George 200 million we max maxi out at his number and he was nice enough to wait so like let's get everybody on the same financial timeline and you're just thinking to yourself and clearly like the announcement of it being that close to the start of the season means that they probably had already come to some kind of general agreement maybe before the Olympics even happened and
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
But the way we're seeing it is like this many weeks after you saw him laboring during the Olympics and you don't even have to do this extension and you've got it under player control.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Why would you be in a hurry to hand this guy that kind of money? But I think it comes back to a lot of that stuff. It's like if you're going to pay these other guys and what he means to the city and all that different stuff. I think the Embiid part that's a little curious is that I don't know that he's actually a blast day to day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And it doesn't really get talked about a ton, which, you know, good for him. And I know there was the part of it where it kind of leaked out last year and then he was upset that he was late to stuff and that people were talking about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
But I have a feeling like It's it's like a lot of organizations where if you have one of these guys when he's right, it's a top five player in the world. You do whatever he wants, but you just hope that him doing whatever he wants is in line with you trying to win as many games as you possibly can. And I'm not even really, you know. I'm trying to be fair about this whole thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Cause it's not like an Embiid only situation. Cause we always hear about this kind of stuff, but it's just, it felt like there was a lot of things that probably could have told everybody involved. Like, do we want to wait on this? Maybe just a year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
At one point, Wisconsin had outscored Phoenix through like 24 minutes of real basketball. I was keeping track of it. And rarely will I ever be at home going, when does Atlanta-Brooklyn start? Cause that's, that's where I was with, with them. And I know they kind of pretended it was close bill. They fuck up on defense so many times that I can't even, sometimes I can't figure out who was wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Wow. So you're coming off the Wizards game last night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Like I have too many suspects. Yeah. Like I'll have these plays written down and be like, what happened on that one? And then at the very end, there's a, I think it's a Dorian Finney Smith three where it looked like youth league basketball where three guys were on Luca. And, you know, they don't, I just, I hate watching them. I've obviously expressed that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
We don't need to spend a lot of time on this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
They hate playing together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
It should never be this bad. It should never be this bad. Like as bad as they are, people can make fun of it or whatever. It's ridiculous. They're this bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
a in
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I don't know. I mean, it's... It was a weird part of the schedule. It was going to be really tough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, the video started going around him at the high school game, and people were checking the depth of the thigh separation. I loved it. Yeah, like that's a sturdy stance, and his groin's probably in the middle. But then if he goes to the workout this morning, then it all kind of makes sense. It's like, well, yeah, I felt good last night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I can't believe Orlando won. You want to talk about a game where I'm like, when's this going to be over?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
You've always been a huge streak guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
That Mitchell dunk today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Well, then I was just expecting Orlando to lose because they have become unwatchable on offense, and I think it's turned into bad habit Paolo where I give him a pass, but I think he knows how screwed they are most nights. So he goes 6-22 tonight. I thought his decisions based on some of the switching matchups that he had, I was like, why are you going to that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
But ultimately, Anthony Black hits two corner threes late, and you get a ball game, Orlando. So this team is 32-37. The offense, when they're bad, I know we've covered it before, but they shot 42% from three today. Cleveland shot 25, and it still came down to the last few seconds of the game. Right. So beautiful.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I think it's amazing to think of these two teams going to a Game 7 first-round series last year, and then... just the rocket ship distance that Cleveland has gone from them. We can get to the injury stuff with the record and the time Paulo's missed and the time Franz has missed and that Suggs, you know, looking at the on-off stuff and how important he's been.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
But they still shouldn't, since they've had everybody back during this stretch, they still shouldn't be this bad offensively. So this is a team I'm frustrated with that's different. Like Phoenix, I resent the time I've spent with them. I still enjoy Paolo and Franz when it's right so much. But yeah, I'm not telling any Magic fan that's watched this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I mean, you've watched your team go for stretches where you're worried if they're ever going to score again in the game. That's how bad it can get.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
It was tough. Yeah, it was tough having this game up with Michigan and Wisconsin, too. That game, you were like, when is there going to be a good shot? They interviewed the guard from Michigan, and he's out there just strutting. I think he was two for seven. Hey, can I ask, though, a quick clarification? Did you take something from this Cleveland loss that infected your playoff brain?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I don't get it. Last year, remember they had that ridiculous fourth quarter point differential that was so absurd. It was so bad. It was historically bad, and it still didn't really make any sense because you're like, well, it can't actually be that bad. And then there was an injury part of it where you could point to how often have you had the three guys there –
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Well, Mobley didn't play, which we should have already mentioned.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Curry and Poole.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Did this take a lot of time to research this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And they were so mad about the year before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Well, I have to come up with something else. I don't think Mobley's going to be somebody that you're running late possessions for and having everybody space off of him. His passing is really good, but it might just be an adaptability, which is the same thing with OKC. You're pretty sure you know what boss is going to run out there based on every matchup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
They're probably going to run the same thing. With OKC and Cleveland, I think the fun part is knowing that they can mix and match a little bit. And when he closed with that Cleveland lineup, he went Hunter, Mobley, and the two guards. I liked it. I love it. I know it's kind of funny. I'll never forget when... Golden State beat Dirk and that Dallas team in the first round, right? We believe.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And this year you can't point to any of that stuff. And it's like, look, I actually probably watch them more than I should because I'm still amazed. And I'm not talking about them not being like a four seat or whatever, but this team sucks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And everybody on TV was killing the Mavs for adjusting. It's like, you're the one seed. You're supposed to make them adjust to you. And I always thought it was like the dumbest thing. I thought it was like so stubborn. So what are you supposed to do? Like, Just get annihilated every quarter? Yeah. We're the one seed. We're not subbing bad matchups out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
We built this record through six months of hard work and stubbornness. So, you know, I know what you're saying. Could you see this all-time... Do they complement each other enough through four rounds? I just love that team, and I don't like the default, well, the Celtics have been through the wars and Cleveland hasn't, so that's why Cleveland can't beat them. I don't... I don't see it that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
We'll see how I feel when they're playing each other. I certainly could change my mind on this, but I just feel like league-wide, it's the most open-mindedness I've had about those three teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
So you have Boston third out of the team hierarchy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
They have nine guys, man, that I really like. Yeah. That I understand what all nine guys are supposed to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And even when they had that winning streak, which we've talked about in the past, they had that stretch, but they'd lost to Charlotte, and they barely beat Charlotte, and they had a weird Wizards game that they almost blew, and they were putting together a decent record. And even then, I'm like, I don't like this team at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, because there's no Boston in the West, which is why the FanDuel odds... I think it's still plus 185, plus 185, Boston, OKC. And then since we talked about Cleveland the first time a couple weeks ago, it's gone from plus 700 to plus 500. That's simply because there's just another team. And as we keep talking about this West, good luck figuring out how those standards are going to go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And I think it was great to bring up some of the Denver thing, because I would imagine people are going to start getting on that a little bit more, where there's just default of Jokic, he'll figure it out. It's like, man, but... Again, I don't know that it's ever fair to really judge him unless you get a nice runway of Aaron Gordon games because I think he's just incredibly important.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
He might be – well, I can't say he's the second most important guy because of Jamal, but he's definitely the third most important player on a team here that you still have expectations for. But couldn't you look at the history too on some of the point differential stuff, the defensive differential stuff? Yeah. OKC and actually Cleveland have these similar profiles where –
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Because I did the Cleveland thing a couple weeks ago when I did that disastrous 15 teams in 45 minutes with the East. It was supposed to be 15. But I just kept trying to find something on offense that Cleveland was bad at statistically. Like, hey, catch and shoot this. Pick and roll ball handler this. Pick and roll man this. Every single number.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
The only one I found was like 15th in the NBA out of all the different things you could sort and try to figure out what it was because everything else was like first or second. They're just that good. But it's also happening on the point differential thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
When you look at that, it comes up, speaking to the Boston number that you're talking about last year, it's like, hey, these teams, when they have this, they'll win a title. And we have two kind of at the same time, right? Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And I think a lot of it's just the defensive effort, the lack of competitiveness, the point of attack defense. Whatever their help rules are, they don't know what they are. They don't care to know what they are. They're just an absolute mess. And you're right. People can point to this and be like, oh, this is why you shouldn't do this. You shouldn't do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
This would be a wine bottle season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, they had to play, what, Przingis 32 minutes last night because they held off that late Brooklyn rally. And I want to watch that game because I was really into the schedule last night just because the, you know, not just because the Sunday pod. There was just a lot of different stuff. I want to see what Przingis looked like coming back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And then they ended up having to leave him out there for a good chunk of it. But. Yeah, man, I can totally see a version of this, too, as much as I love Cleveland. And I think it's kind of surprising that both of us are kind of leaning towards, we feel like we pick them right now against Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
That the funny, like, and I still don't know what I'm actually going to think when they're facing each other, right? How they're going to look through the first couple rounds of playoffs. Like, I can totally see myself changing my mind on it. I just don't know how you watch Cleveland these last couple months and be like, no, I'll pick somebody else. Right. But I think I know what'll happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
It'll be... hey, the guards still got stuck between, you know, whatever version of Drew you're going to see. You hope that's a bit ramped up in the playoffs or it would be by then. He'd just be better because I think it's kind of hit or miss right now. Yeah. But it's,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
hey, look, those four perimeter guys out there with a spacing big that took away whatever big they wanted to keep out there, or the times where Tatum gets on Allen and he's actually beating Allen off the dribble, it's like, hey, cool DeAndre Hunter trade, but they still got caught up in way too many mismatches on the perimeter, and those guys were just too small.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
There were too many times where it was Garland and Mitchell having to go up against... these other dudes with the ball in their hands, which is why I would have never, ever picked him. And I think that maybe I'm overrating the Hunter part of it, but that would be what it is. You're not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
John's awesome, by the way, so I should have made that. He's one of my favorites.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Teams are never going to say, oh, you know what we're going to do? Not bring in stars because of what happened at Phoenix. But this is so bad. I actually do think it's more than just when the Nets were messed up, those guys didn't really play or they were hurt. Yeah, it was Durant, Kyrie and obviously Harden. And then, you know, the Simmons part of it's a different factor altogether.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I know that you can go back to the Knicks series stuff or some times where I think it's being a little too critical. You're trying to have me come up with an answer. I can point to a series a couple years ago. But this dude, he's played in 54 playoff games. He's never played in more than 11, and that was actually that first year when they beat the Oklahoma City Thunder in the first round.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
They lost to the Rockets the second round. Who are you talking about? Mitchell. He's played 54 playoff games. The guy averaged 28 a game in the playoffs. I mean, he averaged 36 a game the third year he was with Utah in the playoffs when they had that awesome Phoenix series. We both think he could be the best guy in a title team. Denver. I always say Phoenix. Yeah, it was the Denver series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I think I don't have anything negative to say. I don't have anything negative to say about any of those teams. I don't know how. I have no idea of sitting here, not being around either team's day-to-day, of understanding the pride of the champ versus the hunger of the challenger. I don't know how anybody could come up with it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
That's why I picked OKC in the summer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
But I I watch in amazement. But I'm I think I'm done after today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. I think I'd have to see. I'm with you, but I think you'd have to see just maybe two straight months of it. Fair. Fair. Ron Holland is not on this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
No, but that whole Pistons thing last night, it kind of started with him. Yeah. Which I know no one's going to believe me on. Do you want to do two minutes on the Pistons? Please.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I was so excited to watch that game last night, OKC in Detroit. And, you know, Cade was struggling a bit. And it's OKC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And so there was a play where Dort was going to set a screen and Haaland embellished it. And... Holland got the call. He got the foul on door. Yeah. So now you're like, door, it's going to be looking for it. Yeah. So not that far after there was also a play earlier where it looked like Jamie Williams and Isaiah Stewart went to kill each other in the paint with just elbow box out shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
So that, so like whenever I see an Isaiah Stewart altercation, I rewind for possessions to try to find what's happened. He's like lamb beer. Yeah. It's like the seeds to the altercation. Yeah, anybody that's ever watched Hoops, you just know, okay, wait a minute. If I'm late on a game, something else already happened. Let me go back and check this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Although Plumlee and Adams had a good one the other night. The funny thing is Adams is in the middle of an assault with a seven-footer, and he's smiling the whole time. So I can't tell what's scarier, that Plumlee wanted to go and his forehead was bleeding, or that Adams was completely unfazed and is laughing about it two seconds later. That might be more horrifying.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
But remember how mad I got at him during that OKC Houston playoff series? And that had a lot to do with Chris Paul going up against Harden. And I was so upset that P.J. Tucker's playing center. And I'm like, how can Steven Adams not? And I was like, I'm questioning his toughness. And it was like the lead on the 6 o'clock news in Auckland. I remember that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Right. I was like, how can he be the scariest guy? And then when he gets an offensive rebound, he can't just turn around from two feet out with a 6'7 center behind him. So is there part of that going to the equation? Probably not. He might be so good at altercations, the physical part of it, that it bores him. And that's why he was laughing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Although, again, it's still another seven-footer and an athletic guy in Plumlee. But anyway, back to this. So Stewart and Jalen Williams, too, have a thing. Holland sells the call. Dort then gets him right back where he embellishes it. Then he gets the call. Then you have the Dort groin thing where he actually stepped on SGA's ankle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
So at this point, Bickerstaff is really mad about the Holland thing. Whereas any coach or any competitor, he's completely ignoring that his guy got one just a couple possessions ago. All right? Yeah. Then they review it because Stewart actually threw Jalen Williams two out of the way on a box out. But then they didn't care about it, that it wasn't a hostile act.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And then obviously the Dort part wasn't a hostile act. And Bickerstaff was upset about the Holland part of that call. He was also upset because he said all this in the presser. He was I could watch it. I could see like him just he was getting to a point. Well, you know what? He was really he was also getting to a point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
where he was only seeing the shit that was happening to his team, which is the most human nature thing ever. I don't know why Chad got thrown out. I was watching Cade. Chad is not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I don't know why Cade got thrown out. I watched it. It seemed like he got his technical and then kind of wouldn't let it go. But I don't know what he was like. Clearly, it was enough that the rest were over it. And at that point, I think another thing I've spent too long on this SGA is so incredibly frustrating. And yes, there's that layer of bullshit with him. That's not as bad as the other guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
All bullshit. All NBA for he's not. He may be second team. But it just gets so frustrating that it's this boiling point. And the bigger staff is just like, basically I'm going to stick up for my guys here tonight. But I thought he was also ignoring some of the stuff that was going their way too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but Draymond actually doesn't get thrown out. Like if Draymond was doing what Cade was doing last night, I don't know why the hell I called him Chad. It's going to bug me for the rest of the night. Draymond doesn't get thrown out. He's allowed to do whatever he wants.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
He had two moves last night where I was surprised that he did them because he had this spin dribble back into the paint where he was still totally in control. And that was always the first thing with him, just watching. It wasn't that he was Westbrook-like bounce. It wasn't that it was the D-Rose change of direction with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
It's just that he's this figure skater out in the court with the ball just attached to him. Full speed stop.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
He had two moves that I don't remember seeing him have before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I know bigger staff also pointed to, you know, how mad he was that they didn't review. And it was like a respect thing. Like, Hey, they're disrespecting us. And I get where he's coming from, but I mean, Detroit also fouls, I think the fifth highest rate of any team in the league this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And there were possessions at the end with Thompson getting in the mix and, and Schroeder getting in the mix where I couldn't believe they actually weren't calling fouls. Like I'll watch some guys with SGA 30 feet away from the hoop. And you know, Thompson comes in and, And you're like, why are you sticking your arms inside of his arm? He's just going to get you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I mean, shit, if he was doing that to Dame, Dame would have just pulled up and then got pissed at the ref being like, you didn't think I was really trying to shoot from 38 feet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
When we had Ty Jerome on and I was talking about him getting calls, right? Yeah. And we started talking about like the working of the officials and everything. And he just basically said what you would expect of anybody when they're out there is they kind of lose their minds. It's like being a high school kid in the woods and the cops show up and they're like, what are you doing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And you go, nothing, you know, like as if the cops like, oh, okay, we'll leave then, you know? And Your first thing when you watch these guys spaz out about the calls and, you know, look, I don't really love it, but I also kind of just have to accept what it is. And Ty was just going, dude, I can't help myself sometimes. He's like, I can't help myself. Like he's like, I'll bitch and I'll complain.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
He goes, and then I'll see it. I'll feel bad. But like in that moment, I don't even realize what I'm doing. Yeah. And I, I just don't know. Like if I were a coach, it was kind of funny too. Cause we had Will Hardy on. I was like, did you have a moment where you were like, Hey, I'm a head coach. Like I get to you. I should argue one of these calls soon because some of these guys can't stop.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
They can't. There's nothing that's not their possession. There's never a moment like they cannot, like whatever it is, that competitive moment when you're in there. So I would think it'd be such a waste of energy to just keep working the officials the entire time, but I don't think they can do it. Like I'll give you one other example. The second time UConn played St. John's this year,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Danny Hurley, who's just a maniac the entire game, there was some kind of tie-up, and I think it was a possession, but it was possession UConn, and they were going to inbound it from the side, and he argued that they were inbounding it from the wrong spot, but that would have meant his team was inbounding on their own end at the baseline, which is a way harder inbounds.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
You would never prefer to be inbounding it from the baseline corner. It's just a harder place to inbound it, and yet...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
danny was he couldn't pass up the argument he was right so i don't have i don't know if i have this right but like i want to ask him were you so incensed in that moment that they were wrong that you actually argued something that was like a negative for you guys on the inbounds and that's what i think we watch we watch these guys and they only see when it's happening to them they think they're getting screwed for two and a half hours and i like to try to accept the human nature part of it but sometimes you're just like dude you're
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
you're not paying any attention to the stuff that's actually going your way. But against SGA, no one ever gets done with one of those games because he is pushing off. He is grabbing with the arms.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Again, I don't think it's as bad as like the first round draft picks, the guys that bullshit their way through a game who, you know, like there's certain players, if everybody played that way, the ratings would be zero. But I don't know that anybody, I don't think a coach can actually watch a game and go, you know, we've gotten a few calls here tonight. I don't think they can do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I don't know if I'd say the Leafs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Because he's a former player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Reddick, with him, you're like, are you going to cry? Because he gets so incredibly intense, which is not surprising because Reddick was the kind of guy in first take when it started going in a direction he didn't want. He wasn't going to be like, hey, let's just all have fun. We're on TV. He's like, you're a fucking moron and you shouldn't be on TV. You're like, fuck this shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Let's go to commercial. Fuck you. No, that's a good question. Because like, Doc, I remember you can ask him about this next time you have him on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Okay, but the thing was with Doc, and he would admit it. I asked him once, I was like, do you ever think about how much you work the refs? He's like, I complain too much. He's like, I complain way too much. And it's from the initial tip. It's just on. And when those Clippers teams had Chris Paul, Blake, DeAndre Jordan, and then Austin Rivers was like, fuck it, I'm in the mix.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Those guys just hammered refs the entire time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
That's where I'm like... I understand the working the refs, like you can't just be quiet the whole time. But I think there's this element of like you've expended so much energy into this. And now every one of your players is thinking about the refs because our guy, our head coach, all he's doing is thinking about the refs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And there's a point of absolute diminishing returns where it just may come back to like the guy cannot help himself. There's too many guys that can't help themselves. I would think the best way to go about it is to like lay out. Like Stevens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Tatum's approval rating right now has never been... It's crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I do. I do. You know, today was a bad shooting game, you know, but I also watched him in so many of these stretches in the fourth quarter where he starts the fourth by himself with whatever role guys they're trying to mix and match with him and whatever his efficiency is supposed to be in those moments. I mean, it's just shot to hell because there's no spacing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
That was another one who had it. Richard Jefferson had that story that he had on the broadcast. And by the way, shout out to Richard. I think he's been really fun on the ESPN call, but he had this story where Kobe was going up and then everybody was complaining and they were like, he was passing. He wasn't shooting. It should be side out. It shouldn't be free throws.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And Kobe was like, I haven't passed all night. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
How crazy is this banana? You want to just, you know what? The other part of this is this, these are the names that we have. When you talk about the, uh, the, the league and the lack of the big three stuff that we were always so used to there for a while. Um, Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Paul George. He's pretty deep these days. Still in the mix. Yeah. The league is deep, but I'm just saying, I think for this to be the group... Is Mobley, so Mobley's two to Mitchell, so that means Garland's three? Then I think it's Garland. Garland's three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I'd say Garland ahead of Chet just because he's done it all season long. Garland one, Holmgren two, Derek White three? Would you rather have Mikael Bridges or Derek White? I'd rather have Derek White. Suggs doesn't count. Nope, he's out for the year. Brady Dick?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Reeves is definitely in the mix.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Dude, I don't know. I might put Jaden over him now. I'm loving what I'm seeing from Jaden lately.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Like, remember when Ryan Dunn hit threes for a couple weeks, and everybody was like, how did this guy, how did he last so late? And then everybody's like, because he can't shoot. And guess what? He can't shoot. The Nick Richards thing, moving out, Nurkic is supposed to help a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I mean, we've covered all the stuff where I felt like with their restrictions, they actually did a really good job on the margins of all of this stuff. I mean, you can sit here and keep blaming Beal for all of it, but at some point, like, Booker and Durant just have to move on from the fact that Beal's not available. He's not competitive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
You know, I don't know that he's as prideful as you need to be from a guy that's getting paid that much money. And maybe we had all the hints when he was with the Wizards. And it's funny, we get on these guys' cases about asking out of situations sometimes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And not every case is the same, so I don't think you should be married to every player is wrong or every player is right, which, you know, other people, you can find them doing that. But should we have known when Beal was like, oh, I'm good in Washington? Yeah. Right. This is great. Was that the all-time clue?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't know. Because, you know, Ishbia's quotes, I understand where he's coming from. But you can't just grit your teeth and be better in the NBA. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, the year they got them, 66, 67 season. Loaded Sixers team, yeah. Yeah, they had 68 wins. So I remember growing up, and again, it was all just kind of legend, right? Before you had access, maybe somebody would buy you a book and you'd go back and read some of this stuff, but... It was always, oh, Wilt didn't have the same guys, didn't have the same guys.
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And then you're like, well, they won 68 games one year. And then they won 62 the next year when everybody thought Boston was done. And then Boston beats them in the playoffs again. So I don't ever know what to do with Wilt because all the numbers look make-believe. But it would feel incredibly dismissive to look at Russell's size and go, he would just be this rotational guy that...
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would, you know, match up in a, he'd be your small ball five center. You know, it just, it seems wrong. And maybe there's just no point in even doing it. Cause it's, that's probably the answer.
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I think what I like the most is the last title that they got against the Lakers. Yeah. Like that one where people think it's kind of over. And I also loved in the doc where it was just very classic. And this is another example of things never change is that post red stepping down. They make Bill Russell play or coach.
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And so if you do something different and it doesn't work, it's way worse than just doing it the same and not having it work. So then it's a Russell thing. And then it totally works out. And then as Russell wins a title, there's a press conference two days after. And someone asks Red, like, hey, what did you actually think about the coaching? And the tone of it is they won.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And Red's just like sitting there. And I think the access, all the different historical stuff that you guys have put into this, and I know there's so many people involved in this project, but of all of the projects, I think it's just good to remind people of what that run was and for it to be partnered with your platform and with HBO.
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People are going to think I'm kissing your ass here, but I just think it's the truth. The same way The Last Dance, it was just nice little reminders. And when we didn't have games during COVID and we were watching those Bulls series and you and I were going through them, I'm really glad that I did it because it helped me have a completely different level of appreciation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And it was the first time I was watching the Bulls as somebody that just talks about basketball, not just a guy in college that was pissed that Jordan was winning all the time. I didn't really appreciate Jordan enough because I certainly wasn't a Bulls fan. And again, I wanted Barkley to beat him so bad in 93.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So to watch this, and I've seen a lot of this stuff, but to see it and then the added depth and how long this is going to go on, I do think that if you think of the worthy things of the 20th century that are worth reminding people of, 11 titles in 13 fucking years is a pretty good start.
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It's a lot of meat there. What is it like for you personally to be able to produce something like this? That's basically your favorite thing in your life.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Somebody will do it. First of all, somebody will do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I loved Cousy admitting he'd never sniffed or snorted or shot up. He's like, Bob Cousy sitting there north of 90 going, I never considered myself hot. They show some campaign of him and Frank Gifford. Right, where they were like supposed to be these heartthrobs. Yeah, Gifford, a looker. Great job by him. He's like, I did drink beers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We did drink a lot of beers because, you know, in season, you didn't want to be drinking the hard stuff and have somebody go, why are you drinking that? You're an athlete. He's like, but I never sniffed and I never injected or I never shot. And it was just the thing. It's always like the couple chances I ever had any access to stuff when I was still living in Boston.
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There's just like it's not even my generation. I don't even know if it's your generation. I think it's our father's generation of like the reverence. And the holy fuck. And, you know, it meant a lot to me and I certainly appreciate it more now having the Celtics Comcast station just invite me to be a part of that studio stuff. And I remember how much it meant to my father when...
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He's like, you're sitting on a desk with Tommy Heinsohn. Like, you're sitting next to Tommy Heinsohn kind of arguing about what just happened in a playoff game. And I'm kind of like, you know, Tommy was a little tough to me at first because he was like, who's this guy? And then he was a big teddy bear. And we were great. And he was so awesome to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And, you know, maybe this doesn't resonate with anyone outside of the New England area or whatever. But, like, these dudes were gods to our fathers. And... At least the accomplishment, you know, it matches it. Like, how else would you have ever thought?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like, think about these guys as you have so many of the people in the dock going, you just went into every summer assuming the Celtics are going to win the world championship. It just, it was expected.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I mean, honestly, it sounds like my dad might've grabbed you. Cause that's, And look, my father played and, you know, he was, he was a big guy and he used to, for these high school all-star teams he was on, they used to have those barnstorming things for the athletes in the off season. Right. So Will actually told my father, he was like, Hey, cause he was, my father was always the tallest.
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And he was like, Hey, do you, uh, how many points you score? You know, he'd be like 16 or whatever. Yeah. He's like, he goes, when the guards, when the guards go down the court, do you run after him? And he was like, well, you know, he's like, never stop running. He goes, it's extra eight points a night. Like, don't. He goes, wow. He's like the guards, they always miss the layups.
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He's like, so when a guy gets out on the fast break, but it's one-on-one or it's two-on-two, you always run. He goes, it's just extra points. Like, and Wilt wasn't even thinking of, like, it's winning. It was...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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it's extra points right um you know i don't know if it's a thing where you know our our influences are so celtics heavy based on what our families grew up rooting for but the wilt russell thing to them is like embarrassing and yet you pull a basketball reference and it would seem embarrassing to think that russell was better than will so um you know i can only defer to kind of like
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And look, I'm not even going to say I can defer to it. I can read everything. Montville's most recent book that really got into that finals and the part where the comeback happens. There's just a generation of people that would look at Wilt as this guy that you actually wouldn't trust despite the resume.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And it's just hard when you're not living it every day today and you're only going by other accounts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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All right. So I wrote some things down. So if we're just in it now, let's get to it. Because, you know, last year we were watching Dallas and the Clippers play in that playoff series and we were talking and it was kind of like a fun series, but it was also weird. And it was just, you didn't really know what to expect. Kawhi goes down and, you know, Dallas gets through it or whatever. And then,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. I love the dynamic of that book because you have Bobby Knight who thinks like Feinstein's in on it with him. Right. Right. He's like, yeah, you know, this guy's just like, you know, a big fan. Um, but he's young and he's ready to kind of make a name for himself. And then Bobby Knight looks at it as a complete betrayal, but it was like, well, what did you like?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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However that was accepted or what the understanding was, it was two personalities where it actually made sense that after that book came out, like everybody was pissed, but it put John on the map. And I definitely enjoyed, like he had a, trying to remember, um, I think the open inside the ropes at Bethpage Black on the 0-2 U.S. Open, I love that one. The punch is awesome.
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Yeah. I mean, I kind of kept going back to him. Like, he was one of those guys that just was benefit of the doubt for a really long time because of his season on the brink. Yeah. It predates Friday Night Lights, right? Yes. It was one of those things where you couldn't believe you were getting this kind of information because we just never got any of it. We never got any of that kind of stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And Knight was really the number one guy as far as if you could ever spend a season with the coach and getting to know him, he'd be the first choice. And I think because John was so much younger, I believe is the way the story goes, that Knight just was like, oh, whatever. Yeah, he can hang around because he's not established.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You've got all these guys out there where it's like clearly you would do anything to get Kawhi and then you double down on all of it to get Paul George because Paul George gets you Kawhi. And, you know, we've been over with Lawrence Frank and Balmer and like in the moment, you'd be like, hey, we can get Kawhi if we move in for Paul George. It's like, all right, done. You know, what are we doing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I mean, you know... Bobby Knight was, was this guy that again, at the beginning of the generational stuff that we're talking about with the Celtics is like everybody's dad would have wanted their son to play for Bobby Knight, which probably surprises a lot of younger people who are listening right now. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like Bobby Knight's where you would want your son to go play because he would turn you into a man. And I would argue the more it continued, like Knight was, he was a great coach, but he was also a fucking bully and I hate bullies. and it started to cross a line there.
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But it's just absurd to think of how he... It was just so strained that Indiana was basically trying to figure out any way that they could move on from the guy. But it's pretty clear, even though John was with the Washington Post, I think the story goes, and I'm looking it up as we're kind of on the fly, because the book came out in 86, right? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I remember my father never being able to put it down. I mean, Feinstein was doing like a story on him and it was the week that he threw the chair. Yeah. And Feinstein didn't kill him. So it makes me think that maybe Knight was like, oh, I'll give this guy access and he's like an ally. And John was hoping to become like an author and get bigger book deals and everything. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I think knowing John, not that I had a lot to deal with him because there wasn't I don't know how much you dealt with him with your overlap at ESPN because it wasn't like he was coming up to Bristol doing a ton. He would come on to promote a book.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I helped him promote a book with Red, actually, the Red Auerbach book that he did, which was the worst time promotion of any book ever because Red came up to the Kowloon and Saugus and John. The Kowloon? Yeah, but it was the day after the Red Sox won the World Series in 2004. So we had planned this all out. Actually, Eddie Anelman planned it out, and then he went to Hawaii.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then they make the hardened deal and they're like the only team that's going to pay him. Maybe. I hated it. On the Dallas side. Okay. But on the Dallas side, you have the Kyrie bet, which at the time. Hated that too. Right. You're going, what are these guys doing? You want to talk about breadcrumbs to clues for Nico Harrison later on. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So then Eddie wasn't on the air at the local station when the Red Sox broke the curse of eight decades. And then they were like, hey, we got to put you guys on. And we were like, okay, no problem. They're like, if it's a sweep, it's going to be the day after. And then people were calling in going like, are you guys the dumbest radio station ever? And it was like, yes. The answer is yes. Yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The answer is yes. But it sucked because Red's there in person. And, you know, it's Red. Like two years before he died. Right. And so John is really thankful at the time because we're promoting the book. And the book was fun. It was a little different. It was kind of like this lunch thing that he would tell these different stories, but whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's like, Bobby Knight has been hired. Oh, Bobby Knight has now been fired. I wouldn't say he was the easiest ESPN employee they've ever had either. No, I don't think he was. But, you know, there was sort of some grandfather status there. And they kept putting him on TV. And look, I mean, you know, Bobby was, he was like the best for his era. But you're right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like it was, he couldn't fathom seeing the sport evolve. the way that it would. And I think there's something to be said of being like, hey, when everything's even, I'm going to be better than anybody else I'm going up against as a coach. And for a really long time, you could definitely make that claim with Knight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The Johnnies, baby. We're back. It's pretty funny. I was... thinking about St. John's. I grew up a big St. John's fan, as a lot of people know. So, two seed going up against Omaha.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, that's the bigger reason. The last time I cared this much... They were the two seed against Gonzaga, and they lost in the second round. I think it was Santangelo went crazy. And at the time, I was not in the business. I was just a 24-year-old kid, super fired up. I cared about this more than I cared about the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Who also after the Luca trade said that they don't do scary transactions. It's like you actually did the scariest transaction that you could have done in the league at the time. And it's been awesome. Kyrie's been awesome for them. It sucks. He's hurt. Cause it's just been fun to see him be kind of happy as a basketball player again. Anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And my buddy and his girlfriend and my girlfriend, we were like the Gatsby's and they were like, Hey, we're going to come over and watch the game. And I was like, this is a terrible idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I had like a studio and I, you know, you know, when you're, you move into a studio apartment with no actual bedroom and the mattress is still there and you're like, when that's kind of the place I was at in my life. And so my buddy kind of knew that, And then his girlfriend was foreign. And I think the reason I said yes is because the girl I was dating was a teacher.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So it would have made sense that next game would have been like maybe the Saturday or whatever. So I was like, OK, I guess like I have to do this because you can't see each other during the week all that much, which I actually was great for me. So I was so fucking mad. about that game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Because I love that team so much in 99, the run that they made, the regional final against Ohio State, which, by the way, I watched that in Jamaica, and I was at a table. I told everybody just to leave me alone for a little bit, and then a busload of Ohio State fans showed up to the grill and cheering on Ohio State as St. John's lost the regional final.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So I had a terrible time that time, so then I was just going to watch it alone. Anyway, Gonzaga beats them, St. John's loses, and I was so mad, Bill. I was so mad I left my own apartment and had to walk down the street. I had to go for a walk down Church Street by myself. And then the German girl was like, I think in her accent was like, I think you take sports too seriously.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I was like, yeah, but now is not the time. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, my buddy thought I was kind of being a loser, but he understood.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So the point is, is that we were talking about that series. I'm like, this series is an example of why GMs are just like, yeah, I know what all you guys are saying, but in the playoffs, we need dudes that are at that level that can find a way to get buckets. And I think the Jimmy Butler lesson is another reminder of think about his market. Think about how much we talk about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, right. Just like you guys decided to defend a peninsula in the ocean.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, it wasn't in no form at like 24 years old. It's not rational in any way. Right. There's no way that I'd be like, one, my apartment was disgusting. Yeah. But again, we're all young, right? So we're young enough to think like it would still be normal. And meanwhile, like his girlfriend, my girlfriend kind of knew, but she didn't really love that version of me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But again, she was actually kind of a sweetheart and like just she gave me a lot of rope. And looking back, it was like, man, I was such a dick. But... his girlfriend was annoying the shit out of me. Cause she would be like, do you have any more Chardonnay? You know? And I'm like, are you trying to focus on the game? Like, is this guy going to miss a three? Yeah. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like, and there's like one couch. There's not a lot of room again. It's a studio. So I don't even know if it was 200 square feet and I'm sitting there and I cared about the outcome of that game. Probably as much as like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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maybe the suns bulls in 93 um well some of those a's series with the socks you kind of knew they weren't going to get it done so it wasn't like this massive the dave stewart era dave stewart yeah but maybe maybe the comeback against the angels in 86 like i'm just trying to think of like the outcomes of games that i cared about that much because it was like the very end of my run of not being in the business and being desensitized to it a little bit
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But it was the worst possible setup. And then I was convinced the only reason why St. John's was losing is because I allowed this to happen. So that's on me, really.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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FaceTime twice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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All of us that aren't working in leagues. And then all of a sudden it's like golden States. Like, yeah, we'll do something for it. They didn't give up a ton, but then we'll also throw a hundred million at this guy. And it's worked and it's been great. But I think there are constant reminders as we talk about Durant for however down we can think everyone is on one of these players.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Everybody loves Florida. They're on it now. That Clayton Jr. kid, the kid that was at Iona that apparently Patino was trying to get to go to St. John's, he was damn near perfect in the Alabama win. He was really good again today. He's a real point guard. I don't even know if he's on the draft list or whatever. And then they've got two huge guys they can go to. They can play defense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They can throw a lot of size at you. And they kind of ran away from Tennessee. Tennessee had a lot of foul trouble today. Look, I think St. John's has seven to eight guys where you all feel like they bring something to the table. The knock on them is they're not going to be able to shoot it enough to win six games. 29-1 on FanDuel. So is Florida's favorite?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Duke's the favorite because apparently Flag is coming back?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I don't really look. I started watching the last. I've been watching St. John's now pretty regularly. But, you know, I watched all the conference tournament stuff, but I could barely get through that. I don't even try.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I don't really have anything. Anybody that's been watching all season long, I'm not going to offer them anything. But I did enjoy watching this week. I enjoyed watching Florida a lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
What's that? You ran on flag. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, it just sucks you got hurt. But watching, I think it was the last regular season North Carolina game, and I watched the BC game where it looked like everybody in BC wanted to punch him in the face, which was a good sign because flag responded well to it. Yeah, but it's not like I'm not your guy to ask anything of.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I know what the Johnnies look like. That's about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Oh no, no. I was, I mean, who wasn't in on that? How could you even call yourself an American back then and not be excited about it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
These guys that are all going to go to the Hall of Fame. And granted, there's an age where it's no longer worth it. But Durant's still probably in the window where another team goes, you know what? Maybe we're a 48 to 52 win team, but we're probably not beating anybody in the second round. Definitely not in the third round. So does Durant increase our ceiling despite his injury history?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Does the wheelchair race scene not hit as hard?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I'm watching it. I am on it. I needed something after the Ruby Frankie documentary, which I would suggest maybe not watching.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And I think the unhappiness history is the bigger point that you bring up. So I'm with you, but I think these guys constantly remind us that the pursuit of these players, as tarnished as they can be at some point, even at their lowest lows of approval, there's still a market for them, right? Haven't we learned this lesson enough yet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And also once Butler knew he wasn't going to get his way to the last day, then he's like, all right, now I'll go here if we do the extra year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And who knows if he would have been happy? We already have his answer. He wouldn't have been. Yeah, right. Because he clearly didn't want to go there. Right. So even if he had said yes, I mean, I guess if you're playing it out some alternate universe where he's excited, let's do this again. But I don't think that's who he was going to be. And I'm with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Like the Butler passing part of it, somebody that you just trust in some of these big spots. You know, Kerr's talked about just how smart he is and how good he is in the assist turnover stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I couldn't believe when it was, what, 89-85. I'm like, how is Denver still in this game? Right. Getting nothing from Jokic for two quarters. Right. And then Aaron Gordon, who's out. And if you look at the numbers for them when Aaron Gordon's out, I think they're 14-11 now, if you include today's game. And I think they're 26-12 with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Those numbers could be off by a game here or there, because sometimes it's a little misleading to look it up. But... When you think about the switches, they were attacking Jokic, and that's something you're still going to want to do. I always wonder if we would look at Jokic a little bit different defensively as if he were an issue for them if they didn't have the title already.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I know I'd probably look at it and go, hey, he's at least positioned right, but at least it's somebody you can think of attacking. And then if it's not going to be beating Christian Brown off the dribble, which you can do without the screen, you can switch into Murray. Westbrook's kind of hit or miss.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There's just a bunch of stuff that you can attack out there, and a lot of it changes when Aaron Gordon's not in the game. Not that Gordon would be defending him one-on-one like 30 feet away, but I think the way you described his different ways of getting into his offense...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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is is the other part the shot attempt is still available later for him with all the stuff that he does then a lot of high volume scores because yeah he can kind of slow it all down It's not like Luka, but it's almost the same thing where you don't really speed them up. They play with this incredible pace.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And whatever is flying around them, they're still completely in control of all of their options. And at his size, and then to be able to pull up from mid-range, even those zone possessions where it felt like Malone was slowing them down and clogging it up a little bit, which I love when teams do. Like, hey, something's not working. Why don't you throw some zone out and make them think about it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Now, some of these teams fall apart when they face a zone. But ultimately, the more you keep doing it, especially with a team like the Thunder where everybody's good with the ball in their hands. They should be able to figure it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So if you're talking Celtics part of it, they're clearly going to have better matchups against SGA, and they're going to have a better rim protector if Porzingis is playing. If you have four different perimeter guys that you can throw at them, that's great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. Yeah. And size, too, on top of everything else, because Denver doesn't really have any perimeter size other than Porter Jr. Again, Porter Jr. and Gordon against him. That's probably guys that are too big. So it's really coming off of the corners.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I think part I don't like the assumptions like what if OKC doesn't hit those open corner threes as everybody helps off of the corners to go to SGA. You're like, all right, well, welcome to the league. Yeah, but at least they have like Wallace hit one. I think he was one for four. Dort hit a couple. Caruso had one late. I like OKC's chances if those are the corner guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Isaiah Joe, throw him in there. That's the way the team is built. So, yeah, there's not somebody else necessarily at like SGA's level as a two guard or a two option, I should say. And no one really has like another MVP waiting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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like that so it's not really a fair criticism of OKC but I've heard that talked about as like what happens with those secondary shooters in a tight playoff game and I'm just like well that's that's kind of the league so I don't know why I'd be specific to them I mentioned the three different ways it seems like he scores I should have mentioned the fourth way too which is this team's just a really good transition team
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Something else to add, though, about this team. Your Kobe thing with SGA. SGA is totally fine getting rid of the ball. Right. So that's another part of it where, you know, if he's out there and he's going like I still may be alive in this possession. I do think some teams get used to their number one scoring option once they're past a certain moment of just being OK.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Now I'm not really in the play. I'm not going to cut. I'm not going to relocate a perimeter. Uh, these, these guys feel really, really connected maybe because they all came up together and because they're young and last year felt like, wow, they're already this good. Uh, I think there's, I think there's a personality to this team that also, you know, makes me like them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
This helps, you know, national broadcast head to head. Jokic has the great first quarter is not enough of a factor. SGA closes it out. I imagine more people are probably paying attention to today's slate of games than maybe a late Friday overtime win against Phoenix where he goes 30-20-20 in a Jokic's 7th-15-15-15 game this season, which is the most, I think, since Oscar Robertson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Did you see the stat?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, the momentum part for SGA with voters, my guess would be SGA is going to win it because of how good the team is, because of a head-to-head. Look, they go back at it again tomorrow night. Right, Joker could be awesome tomorrow night. I've never once thought SGA was better than Jokic. I still think Jokic is the best player in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So if it's close at the end of the year, I'm going to remember that if I still have a vote. We can get into some of the advanced stuff, and depending on the day you sort it, it's SGA or Jokic. And it's really, really close with all that stuff. I think there's always a part of it, too, of like if Jokic took more shots. Would we be more enamored with his scoring output?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But it's just not the way he's going to play. I also think OKC is just a better basketball team. So, yeah, I'm still leaning Jokic. And I want to remind myself of that. If it's close, who do you think is the best player? I don't know that... Even with this season, and what SGA's done, I'll ever actually think that he's better than Jokic. And that will factor into my voting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I wonder if Jokic, depending on seeding and all that kind of stuff with the West, it will kind of matter. You think for Denver with their home court, it should kind of matter. But I think Jokic cost himself one in the Embiid MVP season because towards the end of it, it just seemed like he didn't care about it as much. So I wonder if that'll happen again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I'm sure it will. You know, I even saying some of the stuff I've said already, but if somebody says like, you need to explain that to me, I would just go, no, I don't. You need to explain Jokic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It'd be one thing, too, of like Jokic was having a down season at SGA. There's just a huge gap between the stats. And then you kind of start leaning towards, okay, well, this guy's had such a better season that I can't actually... Because I think there's some Curry stuff with LeBron where I don't know that anybody thought Curry was actually better than LeBron. He was just having...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Those seasons and part of the story, which I think is always a huge part with voters because voters like stories, is that when it's new and it's kind of this next level of accomplishment, at least for the regular season, because that's what the award is, that player is going to have a ton of momentum. So I'm with you. I'd be surprised if SGA doesn't win it. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Okay, great. And I'm glad that you asked because I like watching alone. It's a good fall asleep show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It's just like ocean sounds. And there was a guy in the most recent one who checked out after one night and I felt like there should be some kind of fine music. He checked that after one night? Yeah, one night. He was like, I'm out. I'm tapping out. He really missed his family. So I think I'd be geared towards doing better because I would have no one to miss.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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it's just incredible that this guy is doing what he's doing and, uh, at this age, you know, you start thinking, okay, how much more does he have? And that was probably a couple of years ago. Yeah. And you're thinking out, you know, remember that year he was lightened up from three from the regular season, which he's done a couple of times. And then in the playoffs, it was just kind of over.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think it's just really fitting to considering he was such a huge free agent signing. And then I think a lot of fans were like, I thought this guy was like a max player and how come he's not like doing more of these things. And you're just going, well, there's, there's just more to it than just the scoring for Horford's being positioned the right way. It's,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
it's a guy you want on your basketball team. And then he goes to Philly, he gets flipped to OKC, speaking of that pick, he gets basically sat down because OKC's rebuilding. And then he comes back to Boston and he's a huge, huge, the luxury of having an Al Horford to step in when Porzingis isn't available is incredible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And it was very clear that Boston had their hunting strategy, because we talked about that hunt-happy approach to basketball that, look, is a big part of everything that you're watching every night. But the Lakers, like, let's kill Al Horford tonight. Okay. So I don't know if you saw the numbers afterwards of tracking. Bontemps had it on ESPN.com. They targeted Horford 23 times last night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. According to Second Spectrum, the second most isolations against any player in a single game since the player tracking started in 2013, 2014. Wow. He allowed 0.39 points per direct play, the second best efficiency by any player to defend at least 15 isolations in a game the last 12 seasons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
The Lakers deciding what we like here is attacking Al and watching Al spread out one-on-one, 25 feet away from the basket, getting down into a stance and fighting through every one of these hunting switches consistently.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like I lost track of other stuff that was happening in the game because I was having, you know, you never noticed like something in a game and you go, Hey, I got to start watching the game. Yeah. You're focused. I couldn't stop watching him and just like out. I couldn't, I was so impressed with him that he held up that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then I thought, okay, are they going to get like, are they just wearing him out to the point where this is going to become a real problem later on? And look, they got the huge lead. Lakers make a big comeback there, but Horford was a story.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But I would get so upset about how skinny I would be coming out of it that I would never ever do it. Not that I would do well anyway. Like, I might have a decent fort. But when I was thinking about it, I was like, you did all this, like... build up and I've, I've done this. I've trained, I've been in the Outback. I've, you know, they're in Tasmania, so it's definitely challenging.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think leading into this, to be fair, the Lakers have that overtime win against the Knicks, which was an awesome game on Thursday. They had been home since the last week of February. So they started a homestand. I think they would have been home from Denver probably the 23rd of February if they didn't come back. So it's their first time they're on the road. That game's March 8th.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Boston sat a bunch of guys against Philly. Boston should have been up for that game, should have been better rested. And when the line came out, it was like five and a half. I remember thinking, I don't know, this might be a spot. I guess the Lakers part of it has been really hard for me because... I can't believe they're this good defensively. And they've won all of these games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And then he was done after one night. And then I thought, is that the best thing ever to get over? Like a fight with your wife is you sign up for a loan and then you say you've missed them so badly. You tap out after just one night. It's probably the best relationship repair move possible. So maybe he's actually playing the game ahead of everybody else. Castaway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And the one thing that you thought when they added Luka, you go, okay, well, how's that perimeter going to hold up defensively? And then LeBron cranks it back up after having stretches this season where it looked like he was a liability defensively. But you'd imagine you've got to give him the benefit of the doubt in a playoff series. But I'm with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I went to, as we talked about last week, a bunch of Lakers games in a pretty quick amount of time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I know. It's you, Diane Cannon, and Lou Adler. Just go to the Laker games. One day. One day, Bill. But watching LeBron's shot making, this is not why you're listening to the pod. Like, here's a little say that LeBron's good at basketball. But the shot making in the angle stuff and these fadeaways that he's incorporated, where you expect it to go in every single time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like, I can't believe how often he's making these shots, the takeoff and the starting point of it. Like, that's going to go in? Yeah. So, you know, whether we're talking all NBA stuff and then you look at like the points per possession and what he's done and his life should be easier.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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His life should be easier now with Luca, where I think, you know, there's a version of it going back to peak Miami LeBron. where you just never wanted the ball out of his hands, even though Wade is an incredible player and what he would offer in here. I think the Luka part of it makes his life a little bit easier.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So I don't put a ton of stock in last night's game because I think the way it was set up, you would expect Boston was going to win that one. Well, so they dialed up the minutes. I mean, they went for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I was going to ask you this about the Boston part of it. Yeah. So the Bob Ryan thing is really funny, right? Yeah. It's really funny. And clearly, you watch him a ton. I watch them a lot. And I started to have the same feelings again, where it's like, why are you guys waiting so late to go into your offense? Now it's shut down. Now it's Jalen Brown pulling up from this 15, 17 foot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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These are tough shots. And honestly, it feels like Jalen makes more of them than I expected. He was really good last night for most of the game. But there's just a lot of those shots. You're like, that's what you guys are going to settle with? Four people watching. And I think I did it when I did my horrible 15 teams in 15 minutes. It took 40 minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Because the whole gag is that it's supposed to be 30 teams in 30 minutes. And I try really hard to keep it to 30 minutes. And I think I did an hour. So I'll try to fix that next year. But every time you start going through this Boston stuff, you're like, OK, well, let me look at the offense. All right. Top five offense. Let me look up the clutch offense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
OK, it's third in the NBA behind Cleveland and Denver. So do you think you watch the Celtics too much and you take it more personally when they get bogged down into bad offensive sets, when they have a lead or it seems like they're settling, they take too late to get into stuff, maybe get a little hunt happy when there's really no number that tells you it's that much of a flaw?
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Like I understand the bugs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Do you think it has anything to do with Przingis in and out, though? Or you get into a flow? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Some people know when they know they're just out, but then you have to watch, you watch the people after like 24 hours going, what'd you think it was going to be? Yeah, it's going to be really hard. And there's not a grocery store. Like, figure it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, I wrote down, Katie, there's so many names that I had to write down where I think we've had other years where you're like, I think it's like 17 for 15, and then there's the line, and you knew. The LeBron push would have been interesting if you wanted to put Tatum at guard. Right. Now, would you have agreed with that?
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Now it's kind of taking care of itself because a groin injury, especially being older, already with a one to two week thing, like you hope this doesn't linger, that it changes because I really want to see what LA can do. Like I'm excited about them now. being raised to a level of actually having expectations where I don't really think I had that many expectations for him a couple months ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But you could if you wanted to do that, because Tatum basically plays point guard. So I don't think it'd be that much of a stretch, even though he's not going to be listed as a guard with Drew and Derek White out there and even Jalen Brown. So forget that. I think you're right with Mitchell rewarding Cleveland. He's the best player. So I think the LeBron thing kind of takes care of itself.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I'm not even saying I was, I just thought at least like being creative. What was the other argument? If we wanted to try to play around with the idea that it wasn't like set in stone first team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's at 58 games, though, so it'll be interesting. He's got seven left, right? Yeah, he's going to get seven more out of the, I don't know how many more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. I would say, though... I get the Ant thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
They're the same record. I mean, Minnesota has one more win. They both have 29 losses. So I think you could probably, if you really wanted to push and say, well, Ant's doing it 36-29 with this team... In the West, I had Cade third team. Okay. But I think Brunson, it seems like we're both. I think it's kind of interesting that both of us start with Brunson and then it's the other spot.
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Yeah, see, I'd be toast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, but I think, you know, look, what he's done over the full course of the season has been pretty remarkable, especially if you're going by traditional center. He's actually played center 54 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
So were you doing four, are you doing three forwards and two guards then second team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
At least like I wrote the name down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, I watched it after the Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
You just kind of expected Golden State's going to put together a few nice possessions here, and it's going to be a wrap, and it just wasn't. I mean, Draymond Green hitting a three of all people kind of closed the game out. Comfortable three. They made it really hard on Golden State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Those possessions towards the last, I don't know, six minutes or so of the fourth quarter, and this Beasley story's been unbelievable. Unbelievable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
all those guys want to get into it with you and that's why i feel like big stew was left out it was a massive overreaction getting upset with steph feeling himself a little bit yeah he was in front of their bench but it wasn't he was falling down on the guys but stewart doesn't care and teams need guys like that he's gone after steph and lebron in his career and that has to be the only person
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I hope there's not like a magic appreciation night for the next time the Pistons play the Lakers. Just walk right up to them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
We're solo sun alone. I won't though, I won't, because I'd be like 185 coming out of it and I'd never be the same.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
You could be asking a lot of Looney against OKC because you'd have to go back to that. And they've liked using Quinton Post here just to space it out. That makes sense. Because last night... Big air ball last night. Yeah. It's interesting, though. Looking around the league, you're seeing teams go with some of this double big stuff. Boston's been doing a little bit more when Przingis is playing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Oklahoma City basically admitted, hey, the rest of this year, we're kind of experimenting with what we have here. And there'll be times where I think, okay, they're going to split Chet and Hart up again, and then they bring them both out. And that speaks to just, you want to talk about an organization that's okay night to night going, let's see what we have and what these combinations look like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And have we found something with this double big? Houston's been doing it. where it's a little bit different depending on how you want to describe it with Shingun or Jabari, but they've been doing Steven Adams with Jabari. There's been some of these teams that have tried some of this double big stuff, but then I've also watched nights where teams are just closing it out really, really small.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And I don't know if some of these teams that would prefer to close small are going to run into something in a playoff matchup where it's just too much, like where P.J. Tucker was trying to play center for the Rockets. I don't know if it'll be that extreme.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Okay. That's great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I'd light the entire island on fire within 24 hours. I think that's the best chance of me being noticed. I've thought about it. I think that's the only move.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Right, but they're just gone. Whereas now with the Mavs, they're still here. And I'm so glad you brought up that Cuban quote. He has been on a bender of quotes the last couple of years. There's just no way that you were like, you know what? The number one priority is my offspring avoiding criticism, being faced with the task of something like this. At least he had said, make a better deal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Like finally he said what everybody else had said.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
collectively agreed to here because whenever that trade i mean like i still haven't gotten over it you just see people on tv like hey people are acting like anthony no one's acting like anthony davis is bad we can't believe this trade happened is the only point in the way that it that it happened which we've already covered a million different times um so i was glad to hear cuban say that just do a better deal we still don't know why cuban sold
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But it wasn't covered that way to Curtis's point. It's crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, I'm not saying it's going to work, but... I just, I think in those first couple of days is your only chance of being noticed or say the first week or whatever. So if you, yeah, you got like a 10 day window. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think it's a win for LeBron, though. I think it's a win for LeBron in that moment because it looks cool. It does.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah. See, I think he's a pretty theatrical guy. Yeah. And it was a moment to kind of look like this whole thing gets really, really weird because if somebody's like, hey, that's just a father carrying around his son, like you don't tell somebody that they're wrong about it. But the reason why the rules for this have changed is that ultimately once Ronnie has an NBA uniform on,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
This is this is what we do. And we're going to talk about it. And he's going to get way more criticism than somebody else who's not playing because of the lead up and that it felt like the most important thing was to show the power of clutch. People get this guy a guaranteed contract for three years because I think the fourth year is an option. So it's a big win. Look what we can do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
We pulled this off and. And all this stuff. And it's kind of celebrated by the Lakers. Like, look at this. We're going to make history. They were smart. Get it over with. Have him play with his father immediately. I think there's elements of it where you can go, OK, I understand that part of it. But they I think they misunderstood that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
how nasty it was going to get if he continued to look like the player that those of us that did the draft tape for his USC thing, where it just felt like he never really stood out. But you remember the selling point of Brawny was that he was a glue guy. Like, well, who takes glue guys in the draft?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Okay, but I don't know, Curtis, if you're probably a little bit more tuned into it than I am, but do you feel like Stephen A had crossed a line that deserved that showdown, that stare down with LeBron?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
What I loved, though, was the lead up to it. And then he was drafted. And then you had people on TV all of a sudden.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, but they were pro-nepotism. They were just like, this is a good thing. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And I just always felt like it was a really simple explanation. Because this one gets a uniform. This is different than going to the back and being in charge of travel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I've argued now for years where I felt like I finally figured it out, is that the audience gets what we want. So I think the audience actually does like this stuff. I had more friends ask me about whose side I was on between LeBron and Stephen A than any other basketball question I've been asked by my friends this entire season. So I think it is a win for ESPN.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think it's a win for Stephen A. I mean, you can get into whether or not somebody should be doing this on TV. Remember four years ago when he went at Durant and looked at the camera? He was like, give me the solo shot. I was like, you don't want to go at me. And I remember watching it going, would I ever, would I ever be at a position where I was threatening somebody else on TV?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, I can imagine if you were the new husband and if Helen Hunt were like, look, you know, he's kind of my soulmate and I owe it to him. And then just years later, you just, you just put in hours that irks just constantly drinking and guys would be like, he's, he's the guy he's the, and then he just kind of turns and goes, what are you supposed to do? You know, like bad, bad beat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I don't know that I'd ever really want to be that way. But I mean, this is all, whether it's good or bad, it's all a win. It's all a win for Stephen A. We spent 20 minutes talking about him and this is exactly what he would want. So that's what I think. I think that's how you keep score of this. Yeah. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
If you had said, hey, do you think this will happen one day?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
right like no what like how would perkins ever be relevant enough for somebody to be doing an impersonation of him in saturday night live so there you go that's the win for him so i i think all of these things are wins not that you know hey all pr is good pr because i think i'd push back on a few stories uh from famous people like i don't know if that's good i don't know if that's going to help that person yeah the tnt countdown deal like tnt gets to be a show
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
There can be plenty of shows that I like or don't like on certain nights. If I want to sit here and bash TNT, I could and go, you mean the show that in this in this world where the NBA is trying to figure out where it fits in and all the criticisms of it and the projections of different ratings arguments that I think some are valid and a lot are terrible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
where you have all of these players from previous eras just shitting on the product all the time. But then that's why everybody kind of loves the show. But at least they're allowed to be a show when they're done with the second game on Thursday night. Those guys hang out all night and it's loose and they get to be a real studio show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And when I look at what ESPN asks of its on air people, I don't even think it's a fair fight. Even if you don't like anyone that's on ESPN, which I wouldn't say, that's my position. There's some people where I'm like, okay, you know what? I like where this person's coming from. All right, this one, I probably know what I'm going to get here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I don't watch a ton of them because I have to watch so many games that I don't want to spend extra time watching studio stuff. When the second TNT game's over, I'll probably go and watch another game that I wasn't really watching that closely. But whenever anything's compared to TNT, I don't know that people in television... Well, people on television should understand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I don't know that we talk about enough of like the room that they're given to be the show that everybody else wants to emulate, but never lets their people on air have the same opportunity and same structure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, but, I mean, it's also a group on TNT who takes pride in not knowing who any of the players are. So, like, spare me the fucking deep dives, guys. Like, how come you're not talking about who's better in half court? How come you're not talking about switches more? I mean, those guys don't talk about any of that stuff. So, I don't... And honestly, I don't know that anybody really wants it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Hasn't everybody tried this? Haven't all of us that are like basketball and football nerds, haven't we always talked about how much we would love the idea of all these matchup shows and these deep dive stuff and film study and let's show it? Like we've talked about it. Nobody ever wants to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And when they had it on the NFL, when I used to watch that before the countdown show back when I was a kid and Sal Powell and those guys, I loved it. I love it. And check this out. Third and seven. The interior feet of Hunt at 22 are too far inside the hashes. And Neil O'Donnell knows he has the go route to the outside.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
So, you know, maybe I was a moron and just thought it was all brilliant shit, but I liked it. And there's nobody does it. No, I mean, there's people on YouTube doing it and some breakdown. So I don't know if their numbers are really good. Maybe there's some people out there that are doing some really good stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But as far as like brand name networks giving you that, is it because everybody in TV is stupid or is it because people are going to tune in or click on the tab of Stephen A responds to the brawny disagreement? Well, everybody's clicking on the last thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I also think that ESPN actually, and maybe you'll be surprised, they get so much... unwarranted shit just because they're the one partner that has all of these other slots to fill. Yeah. If TNT didn't have charmed reruns. Okay. And bones, uh, And they had the next guy coming on to talk about something. You know, same thing with like CBS and NFL and the network partners.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
If those channels were actually just 24-hour sports stuff, then you would find more stuff that you would have a problem with. Look, I don't I don't love all the coverage that I see. It's not for me. That's fine. I know I'm not I'm not really the person any of that stuff is targeted towards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But I think that's always lost in that there's so many more things to criticize with ESPN because there's just so much more real estate compared to all of these other partners.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And the fact that it's on so late, too, I think leads to the goofiness. You've been there all day. You've gone through the two games. And then you're on those long stretches. And that whole postgame is on so late. I think it actually is an advantage because it just gets so loose. Because it's almost like none of them want to be there. But, you know, Bill, I think you're right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Like, Barkley has been... has been on this thing for a couple of years now. Like I might do this. I might do this. I might quit. They're going to shut down. And then you were kind of like, wait, are they not going to be on the air and 24, 25? And then you looked it up. Nope. They're still going to be on. So I'm like, why are they talking about it this way?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And then as soon as it transitions over Barkley's Barkley's going to make fun of ESPN within 30 seconds of them going on the air. Okay. And since it's going to be licensed or however, I don't know what the structure is in comparison to some of the other stuff, Curtis, you would know better than I would. is the understanding of just keep doing your own thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And that might be the ESPN model and that they're not really going to worry about it the way they would worry about a studio show in the past. Because who could ever, who could ever on the TV side of ESPN show up to those guys and be like, love what you've been doing. Here are some tweaks. Don't even, I don't even know if anybody would bother doing something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
That was the marquee sports center. I remember they used to offer it to Scott all the time. And Scott would just say, I'm a games guy. I'm a games guy. I want to watch the games in the studio with the staff. I want to figure out how we want to talk about the games once the games are over. I don't want to do the six. And they wanted him to do the six all the time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And he was turning down what was thought at the time, like the marquee slot. When's the last time you turned on the six o'clock sports center?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I don't, I don't remember the last time. Well, they're not already on obviously because it's six o'clock East coast, but I'm, I'm gearing up for the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I'm waiting or I'm waiting until the last possible moment to turn on the TV, knowing that the TV is going to be out of my house for the next six hours. Uh, I think you're right about the Kornheiser-Wilbon thing being early. Would they want to do it? I also think a huge advantage they have over every other show is if they launch that show brand new tomorrow, would it have any traction at all?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Because it's almost like radio where it's so habit forming that there's such an older generation of people that have been watching that show for 20 plus years. Because I'll hear people talk about it like, hey, this is the only show I trust anymore. This is the only thing. There's all of this equity with that show, this buy-in for the show. And again, I'm the wrong person here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But when I catch it, there's never something where I go, oh, I hadn't thought of that NBA angle. Well, you're coming for the two guys. Right. It's because of their chemistry. It's because of their personality. But I don't expect Kornheiser to say something about the Oklahoma City Thunder that I never would have thought of. Because I doubt he's staying up late watching Thunder games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
So there's this buy-in with those two because of their personality, but also the habit-forming thing that you have with radio. And that's what I think is so different about that show. It's almost like this audio product that... benefited from being in one of the best slots that you could have because it was leading to the six o'clock that used to matter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And, you know, Curtis knows this, but one of the biggest things with audio is just habit. Like, why are you listening to that show? I don't know. I just like it on in the background. Oh, I throw it on in the car. And then you might not even like the person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I had a matter, though. Sorry, I actually just want to ask her like people in my position can get really entitled about this stuff. I'm never going to work there again, but just that all of these landing spots exist for different people. You're like, how can they get rid of this? How could they get rid of all these shows? How are you getting rid of around the horn?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, I don't know why it's not fun because I think they're a lot of fun to watch. Just their aggressiveness. You look at the blocks. They have 14 blocks in today's game. San Antonio leads the league with six blocks per game. So there's just things that I've always noticed against Oklahoma City. If you screw around, if you wait around, you're just going to be in trouble.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
You know, why wouldn't they have done this? Why wouldn't they? Do you think ESPN ultimately got to the point? It's like, OK, first take, we get a half a million viewers. We actually kind of own this slot here. There's not there's like there's a ton of competition midday in sports from anybody else. Obviously, Fox tried to do that at some point that hasn't worked out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Do you think the right answer, even though on air people would never want to hear it, is that why do you have all of these resources and do a bunch of shows that for the most part, like there's not many of these shows are like killing it with the ratings.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Now that they've rolled out this double big thing they're doing with Chet, experimenting with that, and then they bring Chet back in. Watching Phoenix play against Denver in comparison to watching Oakley's seat, it was, hey, do you want to sit up here, Jokic? Do you want to get a catch here? Do you want to be able to just turn and face the defense without any kind of pressure on you whatsoever?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I used to watch the MLB trade deadline stuff. Like I had a job in a front office. I would, I worked at night, so I wasn't really taking a day off or disrupting my normal routine, but I would sit there with a notepad and I would have my scouting books that I bought from borders and I have baseball America ready to go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And I would just sit there being like, Oh my God, that's that lefty who, you know, he was just incredible against the Cardinals gave him up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Did you see a split to Chattanooga? This is incredible. I love those shows. And I love that you had a moment where you got to feel it in real time. But I just wonder if anybody's going to that anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
If they're thinking I need to throw on a studio show, like I still love the NBA trade deadline stuff because it's my every day, but I don't, I don't know if I would go to it with the same anticipation. And look, it's funny. gammons could make up 25 years ago and i was entertained i was all in i'm like you know we've already talked about my attraction to diamond notes in the past but
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I just wonder if it moves too fast now where the value of the Woj stuff and the Sham stuff was making sure you had their Twitter feed. Like, I wonder if Elon, although Elon's been busy, should he actually suspend Insider's accounts that are only reporting breaking news a minute after somebody else has? Because I've noticed a lot of that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Is it worth it just to stay in the game to be like, I didn't break this. Fuck it. Sources confirm. And then, like... has that replaced the immediacy, the need, you know, it would be great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It'd be great if there were three or four people out there that I felt like I trusted to put the work in, maybe a Zach Lowe, obviously a wind horse with all of his sources, somebody that's good at both the information and being good in a studio and stuff. Like I still love that stuff. And I would watch that stuff. I'm not taping with you during the trade deadline, but,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Will we miss it, though? Because I've thought about that with podcasting and radio. I did some interview where I thought, well, look, the Luca trade is a perfect example. Luca trade happens. Bill and I were with Mahoney 10 minutes later. So we're replacing the live part of it. But I do wonder... if there's, and I think I'm wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And Jokic was great in the first quarter. I don't know how much the elbow injury played into him missing his free throws on top of everything else. But there's just not a lot of room. There's not a lot of time. and you just cannot screw around against the Thunder. So I don't know why it wouldn't be fun because SGA, okay, is he not as fun as Ant? All right, fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think I'm wrong to wonder if there's ever a moment moving forward where people go, you know what I kind of miss is just knowing this show was live and they were acting in the moment because I think it's all replaced.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But see, I like that you brought up the wind horse thing because at that point you're thinking, all right, who could actually be on TV that I would want to hear from, okay, that I know is going to have something that I don't know? Not that you or I are at the same level of reporters or whatever, but I think we're probably pretty good on it, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
If Luca gets traded, you and I are going to be able to explore this space.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
The beauty of a Windhorst, which seems to be where all of this is moving away from, is that I know in those few minutes he's going to kill it. And he's going to have something the rest of us don't have. And he also had that rant
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
During the playoffs last year, which he also said after he did the rant, nobody actually came to him to be like, hey, you're taking you would have thought somebody would have gone, hey, leave our guy alone. Even if Windhorse was right, which it was. And so Windhorse had all of these awesome moments in that spot that I fear we're going to lose forever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Like his approval rating would he, after that, it was like, everybody's like, I love this guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But I mean, this guy's on an absolute tear.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
The final thing I would say as we kind of go through this is that I've always said, I just think we have a hard time with new. We have a really hard time with new, maybe even more so in the NBA. Like when's the last time something was new, a team that hadn't won a championship players that hadn't won a championship where you thought, you know what, I'm all in on this team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Have I ever gone to it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
No, we never did it. Ever? McShay was trying to get me to go and do it, like, kind of before I think he had done his own thing. I think last year he'd asked me, hey, do you have any interest? But it just, it hits at a really bad time. Like, it's just when the basketball cranks up. I mean, I'm pretty sick of football at that point. Yeah. And so I think from... Needed to decompress.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, I think from a networking standpoint, it's really great if you have anything going on in the media because everybody's just kind of around. You're making a lot of contacts and everything. But... I don't know, man. I can get a little selfish about my schedule.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
That's pretty cool. I put Bill on a thread with my college roommate, which is incredible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Every time there's a text, I'm excited about it. It's great. Because the Boston guys, because he's not from Boston, but the Boston guys are like... Bill's on a thread with you and Walsh. I went, yeah. Like, how did that happen? I go, yeah, it's, it's rarefied, rarefied air with all this stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Cause for me, it's been a long time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He'd probably struggle a little bit. I think if you just dropped him in the time machine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, I think they go under the screens 33% first career from the floor. But I don't know if it's because of the Holy Cross thing because of my family. Obviously, you went to Holy Cross, but there was a version of events where I was going to go there. My family on my father's side loves Holy Cross. So there's just this absolute admiration for Koozie. Veneration.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, it's just, you know, there was this wasn't a bad word spoken about Bob Cousy my entire upbringing. Right. And so then once you get Internet access and you start digging through it, you're like, what? What the fuck is this? But that's where I think this is becomes a real mistake. His rookie year was 75 fucking years ago. OK, so like the game was a little different. But they ran up and down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
They shot it immediately. And he was the best point guard of his generation for a really long time. If you want to get into the Oscar Robertson stats thing and all that kind of stuff. And yes, the team was always better. And there was just a different element of what sports were back then because they were able to keep the team together. And Red was just better than everybody else. I just...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think it's entirely unfair to look at his shooting splits and the fact that he dribbled with one hand and then dump all over the guy when his rookie year was 1950-51. I mean, can we, can we, is that okay?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Will we see it again, Rossella? I just don't know that you can survive having somebody that you can just ignore. Whether it's a big... I mean, you can have a non-shooting center, but it puts you at a disadvantage. You could have a non-shooting point guard, but it just puts you at a disadvantage. So I think you're just looking for shooting at all five positions the entire time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Rondo, at his best, was... Was terrific, but he still was thinking, you know, kind of went under the screen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I also thought there was something with Rondo that that took away. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I don't want to turn this into a Rondo criticism, but when he would scream for the outlet every single time, I think there were times where it was like he wanted to be in charge of the possession. He's drive some of the other guys crazy. He's like the guy who has wanted to drive on the cross country trip. Yeah, that's fine. Go ahead. You can drive. I'll be back here studying. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think the Koozie, I think guys that get really nasty about Koozie, I just want to be like, can you pick something else to be upset about?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But, uh, I was thinking about that though, when, when I was, you know, look, cause he was just such a legend from the area that we're from. So maybe people aren't really understanding it, but when they used to be on the broadcast, uh, they would kill players, okay? Kill players. Could not care less. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And if there was an opposing guy that stunk and had a big... I remember there was this guy for the Nets who like went for 30 or something against the Celtics and Kuzi would just be like, I've never seen this. You know, he...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
i can't even do the accent it's so it's so tough but it was just like this guy's never done anything his whole life like what is this and it was kind of funny like coming off of last week about the positive negative stuff of it there is no broadcast you could talk studio shows and you know whatever we saw from first take at different times and in the nastiness that he can get to and be like how different is this from other times the broadcasts
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
you are not going to hear anyone criticized in an NBA broadcast, especially a national broadcast. But even the home broadcasts are just so positive about the home team, they don't really have that much time to even be negative. I mean, look, the fouls, it's all homerism. We get it. Back then, they would just destroy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Like, it almost, you'd look forward to a koozie game because it was going to be so unhinged and funny.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think the Walton stuff, though, was just the theatrics of it. that maybe didn't play as well on a weekend afternoon where i just remember there would be like a turnover and be like that's gonna be the worst that's terrible the worst pass of poo richardson's career poo richardson you just be like i don't know it's 67 64 a lot of time left in this one
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I just think Van Gundy was the best to have done it on the NBA. And I thought there was a huge gap after him because even no matter what was happening, people got really annoyed with the Breen, Mark Jackson, Van Gundy thing because people were like, oh, it's like a podcast or whatever. But sometimes... Within the game, it's okay to stay with a talking point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
The real chemistry is knowing when Breen needs the room to do play-by-play to get you through the stuff that matters, but then finding a way to circle back to the talking point. And then if you've got a blowout with that group, then again, it turns into, oh, they're doing a podcast again. Um, and maybe it was a little too negative on the NBA stuff, but at least I felt like it was authentic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And then Van Gundy would have a moment that he would pick up that nobody else would pick up. He would, he would just pick up these little things that was happening within the game. It just meant that he knew every little detail of why is this guy, why is he coming in here?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Sub here, like Van Gundy would give you a couple of those moments that I just don't know that anybody else has given you enough consistently. I really like Richard. I know it's tough because he's coming into an already established thing with Doris and Breen, but, um, I don't know. I think they'll be fine. I really do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I know three-person's hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
The guys today are great, by the way. Passion and Legs are terrific.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Legs has a lot of moments in games where he is on it. Like, he is seeing some of the stuff that I'm talking about. There was a game... I forget. I think it might've been a Phoenix game or something, but he basically had figured out like this coverage isn't working. He goes, look for them to bring two on this next one and try to meet him on the catch. And he just, he predicted the future.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It was perfect. And the next possession of the thing that the team was running on the catch, the other team brought two defenders. And I just, I just think that's really important stuff. Like just give me a couple of those, you know, just a couple of game that,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
tells me that you know because you played or because you coach or you've spent your life in the sport there's going to be a couple moments that i may not be picking up on all this stuff because i think even tv sometimes at home i can find myself like losing track of some of the stuff you're like oh i didn't realize that they they haven't contested or this is the guy that they're ignoring as you're trying to keep track of all the stuff that's happening in the game the big moment stuff i
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think you're right. I think football needs it a little bit more. That overhead shot of a stadium, 100,000 people, people losing their minds. I think that's why Musburger lasted as long as he did. I think Brent would be the first. He even admitted it in some of the interviews. He's like, I stick to last names. He almost wanted to find a way to be more efficient and limit the bad shots. But...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
When it was Saturday night and it was a big college football matchup and you heard Musburger bring you in, it just sounded right, even if he might screw up a third down. Because I think there's some football guys that if I'm really paying attention, I'm like, is this guy screwing up all the time or whatever? But I don't know that we care.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think part of it is, is it a voice that I feel familiar with? And it's hard to become that. You just have to keep getting all those opportunities. But I think that's a big reason why they went back to Musburger later in his life, because it felt right when that camera shot opened up and the first voice we heard was his.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah. Rosilla, what do you care about this week? Did your dad text you that they could, he could kind of understand why they traded Luca after watching him up and down the court.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I love how dumb we all are. Like, he couldn't just go, oh, I didn't know they were going to pay me this. Yeah, let's go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But instead, they have to craft something. Like, as if he was sitting around being like, you know, really love this place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I mean, the spikes every year, it's gone up like seven, eight. It went up 14% one year and 24. It went up 13% against the previous year. So the salary cap for 2025 is 279. In 2015, it was 143. So the cap has almost doubled in 10 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And so every time you're structuring these contracts, and by the way, there's another lesson in there too, is like, why are you waiting to do any extension with anybody like a Jamar Chase or like a Micah Parsons? Like, get it over with. Do your quarterback early.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
So a lot of the times too, when you see the quarterback numbers come out and you're like, that guy's getting paid that much and it's that guaranteed, you go, dude, year four of this deal is It's going to look like a steal based on percentage of the salary cap. So we talked about some of the NFL NBA part of it. I don't know that that's ever addressed enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
You can't really be in cap hell anymore in the NFL.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I'm not saying it's impossible, but if you were to look at these projections and where the cap is ultimately going in the NFL, there's just more leeway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
On top of the other cap rule with the NFL that I don't know that anybody ever really talks about, like carrying over some of that cap space, which we've always talked about with the NBA, because the NBA cap thing that I hate is that depending on when your rookies are due their extensions, you can have this cap room window
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
and then you have to spend it on somebody that you probably don't want to, and then it ends up that everybody's spending way too much on a free agent signing, the non-tier one guys, just because you're hoping somebody takes your cap space because all that cap space disappears just because the rookies have a raise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
In the NFL, sure, there's part of that with the quarterback, or maybe you nail it with an all-pro guy who's a non-quarterback and some of that stuff, but looking at how much this cap has taken off, it fixes a lot of problems for teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
17 years? Can you imagine if NBA GMs are allowed to do that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, because I think when you look at his three-point shooting, even though he didn't hit any today, it didn't really matter. That was maybe the final piece of him being this unstoppable scorer. But he's... You're right, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Whenever you think about the polarizing part of who we talk about, whether it's the Lakers being at the top, you know there's just going to be a lot of people that don't like the Lakers. There's obviously going to be a lot of people that don't like Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Maybe Cleveland falls in this category a little bit, but maybe there's a little bit more hesitation on what Mitchell is, even though what I would always defend with Mitchell is say what you want about some of the playoff exits. At least you know that his ceiling is these legendary playoff performances where he can just go for 45 and take over a game. And he has zero fear with Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Did you know he passed Jordan, by the way, for most points per game against the Celtics in franchise history? Seriously? Yeah. He's ahead of Jordan now. Wow. With that game, with that comeback. Jesus. Two Fridays ago. Yeah. So I think you're right because there's nothing to hate. If anything, people be like they might be a little boring. Yeah. Which is maybe part of the problem.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Right. I do not find them boring. I mean, think about how deep this team is. Granted, it's one game, but they shut everybody down, right, for this game. And, you know, I don't know if they did it strategically knowing they had Denver back-to-backs here. Maybe everybody was due. They play...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Jalen Williams, the Arkansas Jalen Williams, Usman Jang, Kenrich Williams, Isaiah Joe, Aaron Wiggins goes for 30. All those guys played 30 minutes. You know, Brandon Carlson's playing 14. And they beat Portland by 20. So this team, it's probably the worst if there was an expansion draft. Presley would be like, God damn it. Yeah, you're right. I'm so impressed with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
If you look at them night to night, they seem to kind of figure out what you're trying to do. Even the zone possessions, they did a good job against SGA slowing him down a little bit. Eventually, great players are going to kind of figure out your zone. Denver has really no perimeter matchup for SGA on top of everything else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Maybe the SGA free throw things upset people, but he's number one in drives. He's averaging 21 drives per game, 15 points per game off those drives, which is three more than Zion, who has great drive numbers considering his minute totals. And there's plenty of guys that hunt free throws that I can get frustrated with over the course of the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I don't even know that I find him as frustrating as some of the other people. I just think he's that hard to defend because of the size. So it really comes down to the number two guy. Is there a number two guy that you trust enough in the playoffs for them to get through four rounds? And I think there's still enough people out there that maybe doubt if Jalen Williams is that guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But nobody's going to do that. There's 30 of these.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
So you would disagree with my tweet about this being the second worst thing a front office has done, unless you'll allow me the...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
the leniency that i'm including ownership in that because you're right i mean nobody nobody goes as an owner like there's so much stuff that happens with ownership making the final calls and these things i think even sometimes i'll forget that not that i don't know it but i'd like that you're reminding us of it because it's never happening without him saying yes okay i'm in
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It's three years, $192.9 million. He has a player option in three years for $70 million. He's out for the season. And then when you start hearing about breaking a bone in the leg to help recovery, and I think there was a lot of stuff that was kind of nasty about this where, I forget who it was, but basically laid out all the options for the 76ers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Then it got turned into the 76ers looking into the retirement exemption if he can't play again. It's like, look, we're not even there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Right. My point of the entire extension was I remember when it happened. All I could think of was you have him... I know there was all the Knicks stuff, but you have somebody who's basically missed half of their career. Yeah. And you haven't really done anything with him. We know what the playoff regular season splits are. You made the second round twice. Right. So... What's the rush?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Well, you know, Luke is on the Lakers now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I'm Mr. Laker right now. Yeah, you're just going, you know, just seeing him progressively get better and better, which I know is shocking to some that he had missed two months. A big guy who weighs 270 didn't look super crisp right out of the gates. Yeah. And just seeing his progression, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
continue and the comfort and what comes with him being comfortable like as soon as he starts yelling and getting pissed off you're like okay this is this is heading in the right direction that's why i thought that first game that he played against utah was so funny because he was so tired yeah he didn't have time for any of that stuff and i think a lot of basketball players even the greatest ones
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
they'll try to just find a way to fit in a little bit. And with Luca, it's like, no, don't try to fit in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Just go ahead and play your style, which I know we're going to do some Lakers stuff because I saw your clip this week and I'm with you that the biggest compliment is that now I don't even know what the ceiling is on the possibility for this team, which I think a lot of us thought when this trade happened, it's like, okay, that might ruin 25, but it makes all the sense in the world because now you get to reset your franchise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And now I think that conversation has shifted quite a bit here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Like he's as active as he's been in a couple of years, but the defensive stuff that LeBron is doing, cause I think it's totally fair. We're, When they're bad defensively, a lot of it, you know, there's stuff that I know that we'll get into, and I don't know how much rotational Lakers stuff you want to talk about between now and where they were, they were a bad defensive team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But, you know, he's had ups and downs, but they're, I mean, this group where you went Luka, Reeves, LeBron on the perimeter, now no AD behind it, like how good can they be defensively? And they've been incredible defensively. And I'm actually going to give a little credit here because Greg St.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Jean, who's the son of Gary, the longtime Warriors exec, he was with the Lakers when LeBron was there before. Then he was at Dallas with Luka. Then he comes back on a JJ staff. And I know him a little bit, so certainly I'm biased. Be like, hey, you doing anything tonight? And he'll be like, I'm installing our entry passes against the Utah Jazz.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And it's like, all right, he's just one of those guys. He'll be a head coach at some point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, we're working on a lot of side-out-of-bounds stuff today. Yeah. I think his relationship with the players, like in the fact that these two superstars, you know, been there. I think JJ has a lot to do with it. They're just so much more prepared as a basketball team. And there was also stuff like at one point when the record wasn't that much better. We're like, oh, JJ read it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Because let's face it, like most people were rooting against JJ being successful because of the background. But NBA head coaching paths are...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
are very non-traditional okay i mean this has been going on for 20 plus i don't even know maybe even longer than that you would know better than i would how many times you're like okay i guess they're just going to make that guy head coach and i remember when the records are similar there was a bit like oh well this isn't any better than darvin ham and you watch them now and how prepared they are and whether it was the denver game we were talking about just a week ago this team has has figured some stuff out on den on defense that i just didn't think was possible
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
The crazy thing about the Suns group is normally you could point to lack of rotational consistency last year, and yet they still hadn't. You look at last year's season, And you thought last year was a disappointment because you just go, imagine if they had all three guys. They were the sixth seed, weren't they? They were like 47, 48 wins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
You have this quirky clutch stat that doesn't even make any sense of how bad they were offensively. And you're just like, well, there's no way that'll happen again. And then when I was looking at it for my show, you look at the three dudes and you're getting this elite shot making this incredible output.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It's almost like 80 points per game, I think, in February when I did the numbers for those guys. And then it's like, yeah, but everything else. Like, does it work? I know Bull Bull's had a really nice run here, but let me actually Laker minute rotation you. Scattering report. If he has a clean look on the catching three, he's probably going to reset himself and move. All right. Long.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Long length. Which is one of my favorite things I've ever seen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
In November, the Lakers were 25th on defense. They were 8-6 that month. They were 25th on defense, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. You're looking at it going, probably going to be their thing. They're just not going to be very good defensively. Why would that be? Well, D'Angelo Russell for that month, 26 minutes a game. Cam Reddish, 21 minutes a game. He's making threes, but he's playing 26 minutes per game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I don't know. I was looking at some old pictures of myself. Well, I usually break this out a couple of times a year and I did it when I got my license picture taken last summer. And the picture of my license is just horrifying. And so for whatever reason, I don't know. I just I used to do when I was in my 20s. I usually do do it every now and then. So we're we're back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
You look at where they're at now in their last 10, and then if I give you their number two defense in the NBA behind your Detroit Pistons, who are just their own story.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
When you shoot it well and you play defense, you're going to win a bunch of games. So the February minutes, look at the breakdown. So you're replacing D'Angelo Russell 26 minutes a game, depending on the month. Again, I'm just using November. In February, Dorian Finney-Smith, 30 minutes a game. Vando, who just hacks the shit out of everybody, but he's in there for 15 minutes fighting his ass off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Dalton's only playing 13 minutes a game. He's also not shooting great in February. Then Jordan Goodwin comes in and wreaks havoc on everybody. And LeBron's had the second or kind of tied for second best defensive rating of any of the main regulars. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
That's the point. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Do you want to do some reckless speculation?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I just wonder if there's a playoff exit from Houston that motivates them to go, okay, look, we have... A one-timer? Houston has done a really good job here. I don't know who I'm picking them against in the playoffs. Again, we could sit here and go through all the seeding stuff, but I feel like we'd just be changing it every couple days.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I wonder if there's a Houston exit where they went, you know what? Like we can't pay all these guys. We don't even have minutes for all of these guys that we've hit on. Yeah. And it does feel like, you know, you talk about the two timeline thing that it's just hard. It's really hard to thread that needle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And you go, is the two timeline Brooks Van Vliet with the young guys or is the two timeline Jalen Green and Shingun with a men Thompson emerging? You know, is that, is there any version where, Green and Shingun are totally fine realizing that like Thompson might be the best player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I like the Luca Milwaukee, Minnesota one. There's more, there's more reporting on the Minnesota stuff, but like a couple of times that I had heard was like, yeah, they called, but weren't offering Luca.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Even if I hated you, I would have to admit that you're right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Honestly, if you went clean shaven, you're just getting ahead of where this is all going. That's a couple of years because there's going to be a stretch like anything that's whether it's fashion or hairstyles. I mean, this is not insightful. It's all cyclical. But there's going to be a stretch years from now where you're like, what the hell was going on?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I just have a followup. I mean, why, why would you make that claim? Why would I make that? Why would you say? Because I don't know if I agree with you. I need convincing on this because my whole point is no one's ever had more access to hate, which I've talked about a lot. And I think a lot of these players just consistently think that they're hated all the time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think anybody that does anything that is publicly consumed is
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Sell me on the point of those decades being more negative towards their stars.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Everyone just had a beard like everybody just had a beard. I remember being so early to the beard that I showed up to the national championship game with it when it was Oregon Auburn. And Todd McShay and Jesse Palmer on the sideline being like, you, you didn't shave. And I'm like, I'm at a football game. I'm not even on TV. And they're like, yeah, but dude, like you look terrible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There was so much. We've definitely progressed with you go all the way back to the strike in the NFL in the early 80s. Right. And how much society there wasn't one person going. You realize you're arguing for the owners to make more money. And that's what always pisses me off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's like, okay, you want to look at these players and look at their salaries and say that they're selfish and they're entitled and all this shit. But ultimately, what you're saying, when you hope they get paid less or lose at the collective bargaining agreement table, you're hoping these owners make more money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, look, I know enough about those timelines. Like, I just remember, you know, when Jordan scored all the points against the Celtics and then lost, and you'd be playing a Little League baseball tournament, and every coach is sitting there in his bike shorts, you know, shitting on Jordan. Now, granted, growing up in New England was the wrong place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Because all these guys are going home to worship their Larry Bird altar. Maybe you should add 68. Yeah, right. The collective, yeah, cool scoring, bro. But the lack of respect for who Jordan was because he was losing to these older, more superior, battle-tested, well-rounded basketball teams. Jordan would have had a very...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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People would have destroyed him if he played now through the first seven years of his career without winning anything. Because it's like, if you're the best, you have that kind of attention on you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But here's the thing. We don't even do it with baseball anymore. So like that's... Because I was thinking about this face of the league stuff. Yeah, I want to get to that too. Right. Like LeBron, when you are... As great as you are, unfortunately, part of that deal is you're held to the standard where everything is dissected.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And Ant got a little taste of that because Ant was coming up, approval rating through the roof. He's so much fun. He starts talking a little shit. And then they get eliminated. They get eliminated on May 30th, right? I looked it up. And then he had the receipts commercial on May 31st. Like they had that one ready to go. where you're showing like how much this is impacting players.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I know Silver talked about this years ago where he just said, look, we have a league where our stars, and I'm paraphrasing here, so I hope I'm not too removed from the tone of what he was saying, but I think I have it. And then it was like, you kind of have a bunch of guys at the top that are pretty miserable. Like a lot of players that are really miserable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Right. So, you know, Ant has had probably this shift because the Olympics didn't go the way he thought it would go. I mean, he wasn't even out on the floor for some of that stuff. He didn't look super comfortable after talking a lot of shit. And again, I don't look at it and go like, oh, man, now I have to reevaluate what I think about you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But Ant is very predictably going to have if he doesn't have some kind of playoff success here in the next couple of years, it's going to turn back to everything you just said in your timeline of like, hey, I thought this was supposed to be the guy. You hope you're one of those guys in this sport. Because I was thinking about Ant relationship. Has anybody ever talked about De'Aaron Fox?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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De'Aaron Fox is a really good player. Makes a lot of sense for the Spurs. I think it's a bit like the Donovan Mitchell thing. Where it's like, yeah, it's not perfect, but he's really good. And if we keep waiting around on what this magical acquisition will be, then we might be waiting forever. But De'Aaron Fox has never talked about that. So there's this group outside of these...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't know, seven to eight players we obsess about every single season. There's this group that's not even part of that. And again, baseball, the sport, we don't even have any of those dudes anymore right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Basketball is just way more personal than the other two sports are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Don't you think? Doesn't it feel like the attachment? I mean, sure, we could pick a bunch of quarterbacks that are as big of stars as any NBA players.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't think I've, I've allowed you to go for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That was really the home run PED phase of beards. We were like, Luis Gonzalez has how many home runs? It's the early 2000s. Yeah, because then it's a bit like the arm sleeve thing. Like the early arm sleeve tack guy, you're like, all right, I probably don't want to mess with that guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He has the belt. He had the belt there for a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Just so you get the most attention. I think we know it without defining it. You think Steph's the face of the league over LeBron?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't know, man. I mean, you could point to all those individuals. It's really a talking point, okay? And I think what happens is there's this cycle of Ant going, I don't necessarily want it. Because then it's like, what are you supposed to do? What does he want?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Don't you also have to be the best player, though? Because even if Tatum... I mean, that's a lot of work to do, by the way, for Tatum just, hey, let's add two more titles to this. As great as he is, he wasn't very good today, which I know we'll get to later, but I don't know that he would ever be... To face the league, because I've never thought of him as the best player in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
At least with Steph, there were seasons where I thought he played better than LeBron. I never thought he was actually a better basketball player than LeBron. So to be face of the league, you also have to be at some point, because I know you've done this in the past with your belt hole. It's just a really good way to look at the league. Like who has the belt? Who had the belt then?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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How many belt transfers are we talking about? Jokic just had the belt for a really long stretch, which is really hard to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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What did you think of LeBron's quote?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Basically, it was like, I didn't ask for it. And then it pivoted into everybody that covers the league just shits on it, essentially, that we're all too negative.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You know, it's like somebody who's really friendly, but they blink a lot and just go, I might want to stay away from him. So overblinking is a fair thing for you a little bit? Yes. Certain size, a guy that blinks a lot, want nothing to do with it. Never thought about that tip. No, it's a good tip. Yeah. It's a good tip for everybody. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But I do wonder though, like the negativity thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like I'll have pods where I'll think, are you harping on the same stuff? Yes. Um, but again, if we're doing a basketball pod and like whatever the headline was that week, like you're going to stay topical, you're going to play the hits, but there'll be certain players. I'm like, there's just nothing else for you to say anymore. Like it's established how you feel. There's nothing new.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Right? Like I've liked to rant for such a long time, but this past year plus, uh, And not to bring up the hockey tweet like a third time, but he's just like, how could you possibly think that that's a good point? How could you think just basically telling everybody fuck off when it's like, man, you're the one. And that's also like part of it, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's like this league is so different with how powerful the players are that. you know, did you think you were going to get no criticism signing contracts and then asking out before an extension and I kicked in?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, it's like, okay, the window is finally shifted. Like, you are outside of the football shadow. So, like, own this week. And it's like, nope.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Not only are we not going to own the week, we're going to embarrass the league again. And I don't care about that week. I haven't cared about it for years. I think I've watched the game once in the last 15. This is not new that the players don't necessarily care, but they're not making the most of our opportunities. I think all of us are more negative than we are positive, okay? I think that...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
So anyway, I think the sleeve, the sleeve thing turned into, I just felt like there should have been some prerequisite. Like you're going to get double sleeves. You're getting arm sleeves. You know, now I don't. And so I think the beard was some kind of transition off of that. I likely will never be clean shaven. Like I cannot even remember the last time just full up lather.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think it's going to be low. I mean, the way you're leading this, I have to pick a massive split on it. So I'll say 80% negative.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, getting a fan removed. And then it becomes, because the player has the power to have that happen now. Yeah. And it'll become kind of like a topic. And then, you know, if it's a really slow day, you know, you'll discuss like, what, what does this mean? Yeah. And I think there's some players that actually like look for it a little bit more than other players. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And you realize like this thing that is definitely an improvement to the experience for the player, a massive, because you're completely right about that. Like going to some of these crowds, going to baseball stadiums, going back to Foxborough in the day. I mean, just, you wouldn't even want to bring a kid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The bleachers used to be about how drunk were you going to get and how many fights were there going to be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Right. So then when a player has a fan removed, then it becomes kind of this think piece of the dynamic of respect and all these different things. Like, what can you have happen? And you're like, yeah, but... no one was ever removed in the past. So it actually happened at a much greater rate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't even have shaving cream at my house.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The players call way too much shit for that, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Absolutely. I'm not saying like that's going to be the worst experience, especially you don't have the budget to go to more than one game a year. And then you bring your kid and he's all fired up. He's got the jersey on and they're not playing. I think there were certain teams like I really think what the Spurs did. in a very Belichick way to just be like, Hey, you know what? TNT Thursday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And remember, remember the ABC game, how bad it got there for a while where you were like, are you guys seriously serious? like giving the league and your television partner this much of a fuck you just, Hey, we're just going to sit everybody. Yeah. And I understand like what the science, and by the way, the science has proven very little because it's not like we go into the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like every playoff story is littered with like two or three major injuries. So I'm not sure. I'm not expecting that everybody was just going to be healthy all the time, but I don't know if that's had the positive impact that everybody thought it would be when they wrote about it for nonstop for years, wrote about it nonstop for years. But that, That's part of it. I don't know, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I guess sometimes I wonder, you know, clearly with this pod, we've got a large audience. Sometimes I feel like I'm too negative. And instead of like having LeBron give this quote or some of it, like, look, with his quotes, I don't love all of them. All right. But he's been giving us quotes for two plus decades.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So which public figure would I ever be like, you know what, everything he said for 20 plus years, I've liked everything he said that that person doesn't exist. It's impossible to have the Chalamet approval rating after the two decade plus run for LeBron. But when I started thinking about like just negativity, him saying everyone is too negative. Well, no, that's not the case.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But then I'll know like of all the games that I watch, especially when it's on like the national broadcast and like Bronny comes into a game and then the broadcasters start talking about like how hard he works. You're like, dude, he's got an NBA uniform on and he's not good and he shouldn't be out there. And this whole thing's kind of a joke. So let's evaluate it that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But there will be no like that won't happen. So it actually strengthens your point. Whenever those broadcasts like that's when I feel like, am I being negative or am I being like just a basketball fan that's frustrated? with the way that the national broadcast is discussing a game or discussing certain players when you just go, Hey, this person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And again, maybe I shouldn't even use Ronnie, but that was just one that jumped out. It's like, you guys are going to do four minutes on like the positives here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's just... Are we supposed to be positive about Embiid? Are we supposed to be positive?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I just like calling out the bullshit because I think there's a lot of it, whether it's another media members quote, because then there's some guys that are just only positive. And I think, are you just this much of an ass kisser? Like what, do you think you're going to hang out with these guys?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You know, is he going to be able to like the next time they have a, they rent a boat, they're going to invite you like what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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fuck are you doing and so I know I'd never be that guy but you know kind of your point about like Philly or even the Durant part like I think I've I mean I didn't even really get on his case during the Golden State thing because I thought he wanted to get away from Westbrook and he wanted to play perfect basketball and he wanted to he wanted to like you know back to the joy topic he wanted to experience like absolute pure basketball joy
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But when you have a four year extension and you want marks and Nash and everybody fired before it even kicks in and then you come back and play and then you ask out and now you've put together a season, I would say more so this year than last year. But I mean, they got killed against Minnesota. Like that's when the Suns died. And I was dumb enough to think that they weren't dead yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And they were already dead, but they just had another season in this season. So. What does Durant expect? Did he expect that people are going to be like, man, he's still getting you like twenty nine thirty every single night? Because if you look at the little stuff in between, it doesn't always show it. This is not a locked in group. This is a group that seems to be really down on each other.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I thought the coach Bud stuff admitting that he had told Booker to tone it down. Like I, I just wondered, I was like, man, I wonder if that'll be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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the sideburns thing is again just the cycle of let me see how low i can bring these down and it was fine and then everybody was like all right get rid of these but i remember the first moment i mean i couldn't even shave like who am i kidding but the first moment guys in junior high for like travel basketball you know there'd be a couple early bloomers if you know what i'm talking about and you're just like what the hell is this guy doing he's got a shaving kit
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So you really disagreed with Arenas' point. I think that's fair to say.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's just the rate, man. It's the rate of it. And I do not understand. I couldn't believe the first time a coach told me, he's like, yeah, players come in and check their mentions at halftime. You didn't know that? And I'm thinking like, what a ridiculous, but then I thought, okay, well, every single ESPN host, as soon as you go to break, does the exact same thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That always, I could never believe that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Maybe somebody will say I look ugly. Hey, I'm guilty of it. I used to do it. And then I stopped because I realized you were coming back from break, like talking to one person. You're arguing with Motorcycle69. Every single guy did it. Every one of us. And it made all of us worst hosts because... You know, you're you were distracted. You were talking to this one person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
You were focusing on the one negative because nobody was going to be like, hey, you know what? Really good job making a point and a really solid conclusion. No notes. Can't pick holes because I mean, everybody's favorite hobby now. Like even if I do a monologue on something for 10, 15 minutes, usually 15 means it's too long. I was like, oh, did you think about this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like, well, I could have done 30 left out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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like that is everyone's favorite hobby right now at least for what we do is that well here's the point that you didn't make and then a lot of times it'll be so obvious it's like well i didn't even point that out because i don't even know why anybody would even bring it up and what we do isn't even fucking cool so when i think about players basically doing the exact same thing elected officials do the exact same thing i remember i got into it with van pelt that was like why are you arguing with somebody right now you're broadcasting the fucking masters you were broadcasting the you're on like the seventh hole and you know he
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I realized like kind of no one can help themselves to different degrees. And what I like about our age group is that we know what it was like before this. And we certainly are in it deep now for years and years. So we've experienced both of it. Imagine being a 20 something basketball player. So like you're always going to be more impacted by the negativity, the access to it, the rate of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think it just fucks a lot of guys up. So it's hard to tell players you're wrong about the negativity when it's all they've ever experienced. They're not going to do what you did because they weren't around when you did it. They're not going to go back and read Sports Illustrated articles from the 70s and go, you know what? I have greater perspective on this. I don't have it too bad right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So I don't think anything LeBron said was necessarily wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. Yeah, the X player thing...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And like, is this guy from Willimantic? Like what's going on? And so then dudes who couldn't even shave me being one of them, you just felt left out. So guys started shaving their sideburns up as high as possible. Right. That was really, I didn't like. Yeah. I hope that never comes back. But yeah, there was also there was just a lot of chin shit in the early 2000s out of boredom.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That was so good. That clip was so good with those guys because Max respects them. And look, Barnes is a wild card. And Steven Jackson, I think people would say is a real one. So that was, I'm totally with you. I mean, look, if you want to talk ex-players, I don't know if I trust anybody more than Jeff Teague right now. Jeff Teague's been great. Every Jeff Teague breakout is incredible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. It doesn't happen without... We don't decide. No, and there was that push to try to figure out who the post-Jordan guy was, and that void did go on forever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It was the Kobe All-Star game where it just was going to be too early for Kobe to take that on after some of these other misses, and Iverson didn't have the playoff success other than the finals run, but the team just wasn't good enough for this to be like, oh, this is phase one of this sustainable thing with the Sixers. It was kind of just this...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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remarkable defensive run with an offense built around one guy just hopefully going crazy enough to get you some playoff wins so I think the lesson in that is that that face never like that face storyline never developed like that person did not present themselves and whatever that void was it didn't mean the league was just going to swallow itself up and cease to exist and I mean we can get in some of the rating stuff the popularity whatever which I there's one piece though which is different there's a personality piece that I feel like
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I thought during the broadcast today that was really interesting because it then turned to another face-to-league conversation and Doris was talking about Tatum and essentially saying, if you're that person, then you shouldn't even have to address it. And I love that Breen was like, okay, but he was asked about it. While there was also a game...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
where there was an ad that started with Tatum in a press conference in the commercial where the reporter, again, it's an actress going, you're on top of the basketball world right now. And you're like, okay, he's got the title and he's the best player on a title team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I think you're rounding up a bit on like what's possible for him because I know we're going to get to Cleveland and all this other stuff. But I liked it. Breen was like, okay, but of all the superstars, Like, this guy is incredibly polite, and he also plays, like, every single game. So, yeah, I think there's a personality thing. Yeah, there's a personality disconnect.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like, Iverson was the coolest thing ever, all right? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, but he kind of lost me a bit there towards the end of the Philly stuff because it's just... Mid-2000s on, we're not awesome. Yeah, there's an approach to... Like, if you're setting the tone as the best player on a team and then you're taking off and doing your own thing all the time and just can't be bothered... Like, I don't know how that's good for the team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And I don't know how that's good for yourself. So once we had access to a little bit more of that stuff, I think that's also something else too, is like guys used to be able to hide. Guys would be able to hide. We didn't know what was going on with them. We know what's going on with these guys literally every single fucking minute. So the relationship is so much more intimate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And when it is that more intimate, then you're much more likely to find things that you don't like about some of these dudes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Think about how many people impress you in the first five minutes and then ultimately let you down. Like, if you think about your professional career, the number of people that once you had more exposure to them, I mean, I know that's the case for me, so I don't want to speak for you, but then you were like, oh, man, I had high hopes for this person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
That's why now, seriously, if somebody nails it with me in the first five to 10 minutes, I'm more worried. You're suspicious. Yeah. I'm like, you were so good in the first five to 10 minutes. I thought, now I'm like, what's wrong with this person?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
What is her favorite podcast?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I can't imagine though, not wanting to be the face. How could you be a pro athlete?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I was not surprised by that part of the quote, but whatever. I like that he's candid, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I know that I care a lot about what we talk about on this, what I've talked about on my pods and the shows in the past. I mean, I really, I mean, I really cared about putting a lot of thought into what my opinions were going to be. And yet I always knew like, Oh, you don't, Like, do you know what the help rules are? Do you know what all the terminology is? Second April? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The white beard call is right though, because now I'm at the point where if I let it go, it's patchy in areas where it's not colored. And then I have buddies that are dying their beards. And then I, all I can think about is Richard Kimball. And I just think like, I don't know, man, like I might, I might want to like at this point,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, no, that kind of stuff. I used to really, then I realized it's like, you're spending way too much time on this. Like I would, I would study the CBA pretty religiously because I wanted to have it like down and I used to have it down and now I'm like, I think I'll be okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, because I felt like, you know, there's always the like unintended consequences thing that is just hard to factor in. I was thinking about this the other day, like the timeout for three minutes to go where you lose the timeout because it was like, hey, here's Silver and the competition committee. I don't even know if that's what they call it. It's what the NFL does.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But they decided, yeah, there's too many timeouts at the end of games. Like, let's take a timeout away from them. Okay, what's happening? Yeah, no kidding. Everybody just calls it now. So you could come out of commercial break. One possession of the other team looks up and goes, oh, we're going to lose this time out anyway. Yeah. So let's make sure we take it now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And so we're not getting any time back because the unintended consequence was that you ended up with coaches going, I'll take it before I lose it. So now my solution would be just give them one less time out. Um, and then you'll be fine. And back to the original plan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Anyway, the reason I use that as an example is that whenever you're on the fly trying to read his CBA and the highlights from the whole thing, like we were kind of going, this feels like a hard cap. And I was almost scared a little bit to go, is it a hard cap? Like, is, is this going to be a hard cap? Um, but yeah, back to the original thing. Like, look, man, I, I do put a lot of thought into this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I, um, always wondered if I could get to an age where I'd be like, you think at this age you'll just go like, ah, fuck it. I watched the fourth quarter. I'm good. I haven't read anything. There's definitely ways to cheat. Yeah. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then I think about the guys that played and I think about the coaches and a lot of the people that work in our industry, you know, whether it's, you know, it's, it's not perfect parallel to it, but there's so many players that I'll listen to and go, okay, wait, you have a problem with me and I didn't play. Like, have you heard your shit? have you heard how dumb all your arguments?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I mean, there's one person in particular that I'm thinking of right now. Like if I really wanted to do a 10 minute monologue, destroying this person's takes and how fucked they are. And I don't know what the motives are behind him, but like I could, but I really don't want to get in a fight with anybody about that kind of stuff. But that's, it almost brings me back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's, it's like being a screenwriter where you get really discouraged and then you're like, holy shit, they greenlit that. Let's open up the laptop. Uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't know that you're necessarily hiding your age, but there are definitely dudes that when they go full beard now, I mean, even though you've got this salt and pepper thing, you're going way more salt than pepper. Yeah. And you've aged yourself so much. So, you know, I don't I remember when Cowherd's contract was up. I think he had red hair and I was like, well, he joined FS1.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That's the only thing. I love them. I absolutely love them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, the only thing I would say, and it's not fair, and it's probably because I watch them too much, but I think they get almost too hunt happy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I get it. Expose the weakness. Find the bad matchup. You have these two incredible on-ball wings. You have a third guy in Derek White who can do some of that stuff too. When it is clicking on offense, the offensive numbers are outrageous. They're terrific. Who am I to sit here and criticize any of this stuff? I criticized some of it last year. It did not matter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But they can get so hunt happy that I wonder in the way basketball is connected that if other players are just watching somebody hunt the entire time, at least they take turns with it. Some teams will just have their main ball handler hunt the entire time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And it's a minor thing that I notice, but I'm probably too critical of it because there's no offensive number that tells you, oh, yeah, like, uh-oh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They have lineups that they run out there where, and maybe it's a regular season thing. Look, no Aaron Gordon today, who's their best defensive player and has been shooting it well from three, but he's still somebody that I think teams are going to test and
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Um, but you know, so it's not entirely fair because Gordon's missed a couple of games here, but they had a lineup where it was Michael Porter jr. Surrounded by Westbrook Brown, who was great today. But I mean, what was his shot total? Like if you go into a game 22, he took 22 shots.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So if you're sitting there prepping out what you want to do against Denver, you're like, Hey, if Christian Brown takes 22 shots, it's probably a win for us today. Right? So it's Michael Porter Jr.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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who I think is, you know, if you dig into his advanced stuff, he's not the same guy that he was the first couple of years on the scene, even though defensively he was such a disaster then that Malone didn't really even trust him. I wouldn't say he's a plus, but I think he's a total coin toss guy. If he had 21 or he had three, I wouldn't be surprised.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I also think he plays a little soft, but back to this lineup. So it's Porter Jr., Westbrook, Brown, DeAndre Jordan, and Strother. And when you're looking at some of the three-point shooting against these guys, like Westbrook's going to be open. And when he hit his first three, I thought that was a bad sign for Denver with this stuff. You can also see Westbrook decide he's not comfortable shooting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You can also see Westbrook, you know, it's great that he's probably understood his role better here than a lot of the other places as he's tried to become a role player. Like I'd say, what, this is stop three as a role player because Washington, he still was clearly the guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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you'll see him be in a hurry to force it back to Jokic, which is showing him being deferential in a way that we weren't used to with so many of the prime Westbrook years. But I think it can also mess them up a little bit. So whether it was the Lakers matchup or the Boston matchup today, again, without Gordon, isn't entirely fair.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I know you weren't expecting this long, so I'm not going to go this long on the other ones, but I've talked about it being four teams because of the respect for Jokic and Denver was fourth in the FanDuel title odds. It's those three and Denver's in a sliver tier by themselves because I just don't think they're as good as Oklahoma City, Cleveland, or Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I don't see how they are going to be as good as those three teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I had a really hard time having that ball patch in my head. It was just brutal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They were two for 11 on their first 11 wide open threes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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On the game, they got it back to 34%, but they're last in the NBA in points from the three. So their percentage of points, however many they score a game, they have the last or the lowest total of points via the three-pointer of anyone. And so then they come to a game like today. That was going to be really weird if Boston had blown this because approach-wise, hey, here's the plan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Here's what we want to have happen. It's exactly what you would hope to do to Denver. Like, yeah, great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The high camera shot. Yeah, I mean, if I see John Barry to this day, it might be on. Oh, he mentioned it? My buddies wanted to kill John Barry. Did he make a joke about it? He talked about it the entire fourth quarter apparently. I can't even go back and watch the tape. It's too traumatic. Wow. I wonder if that's on the YouTubes. Oh, it's all over the place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It'll be interesting if Shea gets his points, Jalen Williams gets his points. Chet, as you'd expect, taking a little time. I thought he was so great in that Brooklyn game when they gave up, what, 76 points to the Nets of all teams with this kind of defense, this historic differential defense based on the league averages. But it might just be, does Isaiah Joe Dort Caruso, Aaron Wiggins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I've joked about him being one of my favorite players, but as far as a role guy and stepping up and then what he did in February, every time I watch a Thunder game, I'm always like, man, there's Aaron Wiggins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I, too, am fond of Ty Jerome. We have him on the pod coming up this week, by the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There was a moment when Ty Jerome was playing and trying to figure out where his basketball life was going to go. Van Gundy was on the broadcast. And this is when I knew. And again, anybody that watched him in college, he's very different in that the play is open. There are options open on his plays. that are longer, if that makes sense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's almost like a quarterback watching routes develop and he finds a way to give the receivers the extra beat to do whatever they need to do so that you're still defending more shit than you want to defend with Jerome. And that's why he screws up so many of these defenses because you're like... there's no way this is going to work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And it's a lot of that Nash wrong foot thing, or it's the takeoff to pass where guys started. Remember like almost running out of the way of Nash's drives. It actually opened up things for Nash because people were closing out and so freaked about his passing skills. And Jerome has these runners where everything is kind of wrong. And then you don't really know what's supposed to happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Anyway, Van Gundy was on a broadcast and it was almost like your grandfather watching Christina Hendricks on an episode of Mad Men for the first time. Like just this erotic, slightly, like the way Van Gundy talked about Ty Jerome's game, it was like he needed a breath. Like he needed a moment. Yeah. And it makes all the sense in the world.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So my friends, I'm talking about, again, Massachusetts friends that aren't exactly the most supportive people. Scholars have argued. They don't even argue about it. And so they were like, hey, what the fuck is up with John Barry? And I went, I don't know. Is that beef? I just got done with the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like Cleveland, when they came back, what was really interesting about their game, they went to 10 guys, I think 14 minutes into the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They were at 10 guys. The Friday night game you're talking about. Right. depending, maybe you take a coral off the table, shot selection, some of that stuff. Let's say nine. Nine of the guys for Cleveland now are really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Even when they were arguably the greatest team we've ever seen, they turned the ball over.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They played better defense than everybody, too, on top of being unguardable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I've watched him a lot. The last, I don't know, 10 plus days, I watched the Clippers loss. I watched the Phoenix win. I watched the Phoenix win in overtime. The Knicks lost, which could have gone either way. And they lose to San Antonio. But Ja didn't play last night, right? I don't think Ja or Bane played. That's right. Yeah, because Bane was in a sick, sick hoodie. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I want to be fair about Memphis, you know, because I think that the most dismissive thing you could say is, hey, they've never done shit. Because I hear it a lot. Like, if I talk to teams, like, hey, who do you like? Who do you not like? What would you think about this matchup? Whatever. There's a lot of never done shit. About a million different teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Because you know what it's really hard to do? Win. It's hard to actually do shit. Like, you could even... I don't even know how Wynn Horst... Again, it's not a criticism of Windhorse, but I was a little shocked at how often he was talking about how disrespected the Thunder were. Whereas once they get into the playoffs, that a lot of this stuff isn't going to work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And that one, I don't quite understand. I don't think it's even fair to judge the Thunder as some finished product. Did he say that about this season's Thunder? He said about, I mean, do I have to bring up the quote? Because I brought it up with Slater. I brought it up with Slater this week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I'm sitting here trying to ISO against Hunger Games, and I got the secretary of education telling me to calm down a little bit. And then I had to sub myself in. Which Hunger Games person? Was it a Josh or something?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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where he was basically saying, again, it's not like he's pulling the entire league, but it's like a player thing. There's just players that look at the Thunder, look at their regular season success. Now, last year, you could point to it and go, hey, look at their health and look at their available guys. They had basically played.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Sacramento had one of those seasons where it's like, okay, you basically ceilinged out this entire time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't understand. Why wouldn't Shea? Shea's just going to be as good. Maybe he has a couple games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So which team has not won that people were like, hey, that team's going to get it done?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Are you ready to pick them over Boston in a series?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Did you see what else they did too? They sat Allen to close.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, but think about that sentence. Did you think you would be saying that, I think Boston could beat Cleveland two months ago?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, I pushed him pretty hard at one point because I just wasn't playing well. I'd actually had like a crack in my leg and Um, you know, whatever. Now I'm making excuses.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So Mitchell, this season in three games against Boston, is averaging 36, 7, and 4 on 50 and 38%. Feels even better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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First of all, he's just that good. The best version of him. He also rejects the screen in that Dwayne Wade way where I think when you're really good at that, because I just don't know that there's enough guys that understand when you turn the screen down and you go the other way. He also splits it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Again, I'm not trying to compare him to Kobe because Kobe would split screens in ways you were just like, oh my God.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, it's probably not Hauser. As good as Hauser holds up, that was one of the things that I was looking at the last few days with Boston where every one of these Hauser minutes or every one of these curl handoffs where you're getting Cornette trying to figure out which side of the paint he's going to try to Contest a shot on like those are Porzingis and drew minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So even if drew doesn't end up on him, you're now switching into whatever version of this was. And now pre Deandre Hunter, I didn't care what Mitchell did. I didn't care about what the regular season stuff. And again, it had gone Boston's way. So you could at least point to that as evidence of,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But there was always a bad matchup waiting for Cleveland, whether it was finding Garland or Strews having to start on Jalen Brown or, you know, Allen is on Tatum. They clearly like bringing Allen all the way out away from the rim. And then if the Mobley lineup is out there with Allen trying to keep him pinned to a three point shooter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I didn't play Russell Westbrook. I didn't look, I shouldn't, I was not a celebrity. Um, ESPN was usually pretty good about trying to get somebody on air involved in some of that stuff. I liked it. A little cross promotion. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So like basically you can't have Allen or Mobley ever freelance to the rim. And I actually think in the matchups where Tatum had Allen, like he did a really good job with it because if he wasn't going to be able to finish at the rim, he kind of knew. And he had a massive game there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But now that they have these Hunter minutes and they closed with Mobley, Hunter, and then the guards because Garland played and had his moments even though he's been hunted. And then you have... So Cleveland now has put together spacing options and the Hunter part of it, even though it was expensive, I love that they did this because...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Now it's like, look, nobody's stopping Tatum necessarily, but at least you have somebody size-wise who has a defensive thing to him. It's a chore to score against him, and he can shoot threes. Look, the point is, even without Przingis and Drew in there, maybe it feels like a mistake. Cleveland's the favorite.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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and i think atkinson has a real feel for what the team is but um and he has all these different options i guess i just don't like the default and i'm guilty of it too like we have a really hard time with new it's hard to be ahead of everybody going you know what like but if i were to listen to somebody like cleveland hasn't done it boston has and that be the reason that's not a reason it's ignoring a lot of basketball stuff there's not a reason now
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Obviously, I'd want to do it, but I clearly wish I had gotten a play before that because then when I went back home to talk to buddies that I played with regularly, they're like, you're terrible now. We talked so much shit about, they were like, look out, he's going to go off in this thing. And I was like, yep, I know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And if they want to go double big, you still have to respect... you obviously have to respect Porzingis. Like you feel like Boston has the stretch options and we might be both making mistake declaring Cleveland the favorite right now. The whole point is being out, but I just think they're that good, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, they went to seven games at Orlando. Yeah. And Orlando, who, if you really want to have a bad time, watch them on offense this season. It's funny, too, because Cleveland ran the zone where they had Ty Jerome and Sam Merrill at the top of the zone. Yeah. And you're looking at Orlando's options and you're like, I know with the zone it can mess you up a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And it also screws up Orlando's offense that their top two usage guys are 30% each from three in Paolo and Fran. So that's going to put a dent in your plans. But I was watching this going, how can you guys not figure out a way to attack front of the pod Sam Merrill and soon to be front of the pod Ty Jerome? Like how...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I know they're in zone, but teams will stop screening with zone or they'll stop cutting. They just get freaked out. Orlando's offense is terrible against everybody in every incarnation. But this is...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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this is one of those deals where you're like, everything seems to be working out for them and they can be a really like, you know, we could say how depth is overrated in the playoffs, but there's nothing to me that's overrated about options and they have depth and lineups, lineup options. Yeah. And okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But then on the other side, it was a bit like when Kyrie was having his playoff run last year, where even if he went four for 20, people be like his joy is back and it's unbelievable. Yeah. So the threshold for like a good Kyrie stretch was pretty low. And I think it was the same. And so when I got back to ESPN, people were like, oh, you played really well. And I was like, yeah, not really.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I just don't know how the Knicks defense is going to be enough. It's too easy scoring them. I know they have Mitchell back now, and the lack of depth isn't really an issue.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That's a massive leap to be like, that team is going to get through. Unless somebody does them a favor, so they only have to face one of the two top teams to get through it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I love watching the Knicks, though. Like, even with my doubts, that Knicks-Memphis game the other night. That was awesome. We didn't really do a very good job on the Memphis thing. So let me just end it this way. Yeah. There's so much that I like about the team. I think Bain is just solid all the time. I don't know that Aldama gets enough credit. You know, they're working a couple other pieces in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think the Edie thing is still not necessarily great. And I don't know if it's because Bill Gurley.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I was shocked. Bill Gurley had kind of a tweet that was like, I'm really smart and you draft guys are kind of fucking morons. And it was like the general premise of overthinking something and ultimately becoming wrong when he was taken. And it's like, look, man, I think you're not really...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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understanding the NBA part of this, where there's a lot of teams that'll sit there in the war room going, Hey, the guy we're about to draft is not nearly as good as the guy we're passing on. Right. Yeah. Like they know this, these teams are not as stupid as people want to make them out to be. But if you're a team that doesn't have a, a track record of attracting free agents, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So you're not a destination franchise. You never use a cap space on anybody. Maybe you don't have necessarily trade assets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The reason why players like Edie would go a little bit later in a draft, which we've already covered some of this stuff before, is because you feel like they're already close to their ceiling and you're like, hey, I know that Amin Thompson is this or Sir Thompson is this, but what if this raw... like one percent athlete who we like his personality, like what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then you got called bald, I guess, for a straight hour or so.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I'm not comparing like Thompson going where he went. You know, it's also different draft classes, but. There's something you have to understand with teams that when they're selecting guys, they know the mistake they're potentially making, but they're thinking about the high ceiling part because the addition of talent is so incredibly challenging in this league. More challenging.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's tougher to be a GM in basketball than any of the other sports. So for teams that are watching, what's that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Do you want to do this? I don't know that you're prepared to do this with me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, but the cap thing is the same for everybody. There's no soft part of it. There's no like... there's no massive advantage in the five destination cities in the NFL that you have in the NBA. So if you're a have not in the NBA, like Utah can be putting together the best plan ever. Is anyone ever signing there? Right. The NFL doesn't have that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You don't even have real, you don't even have real free agency in the NFL. So on top of like when a guy wants a trade, uh, Or we'll just franchise you and you can miss out on like a top five salary at your position.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, but he can't drive receivers. So that's not a good argument.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Right. Because then it becomes a debate. Is it easier to draft in the NBA or are they better at it? And I just when it comes down to the quarterback part of it. It's something that we can't criticize for an officer getting wrong. It's the process of evaluating these guys. It's just no one's figured it out. It's too flawed of a thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I'd like to be watching somebody run really fast in basketball and his dunks are awesome. And then being like, look at all that athleticism and quick twitch stuff. Now he'll be good at quarterback.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We thought he was a rotation guy, but a closing guy for the Memphis Grizzlies.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. So you're drafting him and you're asking him to post up 1.6 times per game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Another thing for my NFL NBA thing, we have seven conversations going on at once here, by the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You can't bring in a new coach in the NBA with basically the same roster and then just be a completely different team. And there's also the math of the games where a team, a couple of one-score possession games go their way. All of a sudden, you're a four-win team and you go to like a nine-win team. And you're just like, man, we really figured it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's like now actually just recover more fumbles. But there's very little that you can do
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
um and then also look in the nba with the way the drafting works the second round guys again the second round thing was like the most overrated thing ever and people just love that hanky was stockpiling all these second round picks but it was so fucking stupid there's no nba draft part where you're like oh in the fourth round we grabbed an all-pro middle linebacker right that doesn't happen so i don't know maybe we can maybe we can do this on the hit show ringer.com
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Because you actually have to factor in the pre-miserable. Yeah. You can't just pick somebody who's happy all the time. You have to get somebody who's a really moody dude. Yeah, that's tough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Wait, so now I don't even know if we're arguing the same Zach Eady point. How about we do this? Do you like Memphis in the playoffs?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But is it too early for Memphis? Because that's something... This has been a very weird three-year stretch for this team. To say the least. Yeah. So you go back to 22. And I always like Memphis. I like their rawness. Their anti-establishment. The next generation of...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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of grit and grind and then when they played whoop that trick in game five against golden state you never got over that yeah yeah and i i actually i think i did a monologue because chris vernon sent me just a tear emoji after the open where i went i want golden state to beat their fucking brains in yeah when they play in game six because i was like you guys are really really feeling yourself
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You're down 3-2 in a series. Maybe don't play. It was an elimination game, 3-1 to 3-2, but it was a lot. It was a lot from those guys. And so then you have the Jai issues, then you have the injury issues. And so that was a... They had a seed not that long ago when they were hurt against the Lakers, right? Where no one gave them a chance necessarily in that series. That was the Dylan Brooks thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Everybody ended up not liking him all that much. So this is kind of like year four of this group. But I don't know that it's like, oh, they're incapable because they haven't done anything when they weren't really fully formed in all these versions except for 22.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I mean, wherever Durant ends up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, but they're defensive numbers because I looked it up the other day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I just, I'm still on the pyramids to be honest with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, just because like the last guy that built the pyramid after his, you know, the lineage of rulers, he was like, okay, well, my grandfather did this and then my father did this. So how about we do this? I'll build a slightly smaller pyramid just because the other guys, like, you really had to sacrifice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Because basically people were like, hey, these pyramids take a fucking long time and a lot of resources. And maybe this isn't the sweetest deal for your constituents, right? Yeah. So I like that it was almost like an ideological shift of the pharaohs that it was like, if we're going to do a pyramid, how about a little smaller? Yeah. It felt like a real transition of like, I still got to do one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I still got to do one. But I'm going to take it easy on you guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So is there a pyramid? Is there a pyramid version of OBP that matches not putting the ball in play in too many relievers?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They never perfected? Right at the end of the third dynasty, maybe. I could have my tables wrong. But yeah. I'll check on that. What do you got?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Could there be Kyrie joy is back voter fatigue? Cause he would have won it last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I saw the couple of beers thing. I haven't watched it yet. I did watch the monologue because I mean, he even talked about the first monologue. I think he was nervous. Like it was. Yeah, he was. So I've seen him, I think, four times now whenever he's around. Like, I want to make sure I can go check it out. And look, I like him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But last night, I think there's still this disconnect of people can't understand where he's at.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, like there was obviously like peak time. Whatever political lines you want to argue SNL was aligned with, I think there was a peak where it was probably a lot for anybody. I remember they did a weekend news thing or whatever, and they went to some correspondent that was talking about
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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the movie lineup and that essentially every movie was centered around white male rage right yeah and so whoever the correspondent was that was doing the spoof was just yelling like white male rage white male and i wasn't offended as a white male i was offended because it was so stupid it just wasn't funny at all yeah i felt like because of
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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wherever we were at in our discussions at least as a country at the time it was like almost a cool thing to try to do and it just didn't didn't work it wasn't really funny and now i've looked at different snl clips it's like oh you can see the shift a little bit be like maybe 100 maybe some of this pandering stuff that we were doing or maybe it was people internally that worked on the show we're like no these are important things like we're gonna do you can see there's been a very clear shift of like let's actually start making fun of
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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both sides a little bit more than we were so then i don't know if that sets the tone for like what gillis is walking into but i think some people look at gillis and think was he talks about trump when he comes out says i'm going to miss trump being in debates that for some people it's like this massive red flag that goes off like oh this guy's a trump guy you know he's yeah white he's from pa like clearly he's a trump then he goes right for biden right after
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Right. So I don't think first of all, I don't think he's conservative. Some people think he is. And the way that like that'll like it'll happen with certain people like they'll already be like triggered to go. Oh, no. Like this is a pro Trump comedian out here because he just said, I mean, and then he makes fun of Trump the whole fucking time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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When MB is on another team, when they do the joy is back, sit down feature for.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So he's kind of just making fun of everybody there the whole time. I'd ask you this, though, like him getting bounced. I knew who he was, but not as good. And then pretty quickly, I was like, man, this guy is... He's probably my favorite going right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think he's really smart on top of being like... The guys that play the goofy thing, but also are incredibly smart with the way they structure the stuff that they're doing is always going to make me want... I'm like, okay, I'm in. This isn't just set up, set up joke or whatever. I think there's some layers to the stuff that he's doing that's really impressive to me. But do you think...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Do you think that changed? Cause it, at the time it felt like, and I'm doing a bad job with this. That was the best thing that happened to him. Cause it put him on everybody's radar, but you think the long-term ceiling for him back to the Zach, I don't think it was the best thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. You can't even.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The ISIS thing. When I saw the ISIS thing live in Arizona, uh, I mean, he just had everybody. I mean, his whole premise was, and again, like, that's a pretty good example of what we're talking about. I don't think he actually is cheering for ISIS. Right. But his whole story and playing it out of getting you to understand why he's rooting for ISIS for all of the reasons that he's laying out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like, that's brilliant shit, man. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And now you think he has a Sandler like potential Sandler timeline. That's not reachable now. What do you mean? Well, if he's the main guy and he's really funny, he's on SNL for 10 years feels long today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Every Jimmy Butler quote, I feel like did Aaron Sorkin write the perfect like recovery? Like every quote, it's not just one good quote. They're like 12 for 12. They're all perfect. Yeah. And you think like, hey, Sorkin, come up with a script of this player that basically sabotaged himself, destroyed his own market value, destroyed his own free agency.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Oh, Les Claypool. Primus, Tuesday. Already taped it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Keep it a secret. Who do you want to win the Oscar?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I thought she was great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I only watched those two movies. Oh, and I saw Dune. I saw Dune. I saw Chalamet at the Lakers game. I know. He was sitting a couple rows in front of me. I wanted to go up to him and be like, hey, here's the deal. It's not about me. Will you go on with Bill?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. No, no. I want you to just I want you to ice. I want you to hunt him like Darius Garland. I think it's very clear. Chalamet would come on with you if he knew the request was in. I feel like people don't know how big I think there's a pretty big PR armada. Yeah. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I'm not worried about it. They're turning down everything. But any kid that waits outside MSG to meet Amari Stoudemire when he's 10 or 11, that guy wants to go. He already name-checked you. So this is an auto. So I thought, is there any way I'll get him? But as I've gotten older, I'm like, I'm never going up to anybody anymore. Yeah, it sucks. Because it just doesn't work. You can come up to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like, this isn't new, even if we could get into some of the debates, which I think there's some fair criticisms of Sorkin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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some of the miami stuff but i mean ultimately it was butler that just checked out on the whole thing they're like okay but when he goes to this new team and everybody starts making threes and they win a bunch of games like give us perfect quotes every quote butler has for like two weeks has nailed it it's one of those situations where you're like oh i forgot this guy had teeth we hadn't seen his teeth for like three years because he hadn't smiled since like 2021 2021
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Just all you have to do is play with them and then go when everybody, this is what happens when you cut. Yeah. Like you cut and then all of this stuff is just wide open. I mean, still even at Steph's age with this. So, Butler, it was funny because we had Anthony Slater on who, you know, from the athletic, he's national, but you know, his background is the Warriors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And he made a really good point because I think anybody that knew about what was going on before the trade deadline and all the different conversations you hear, like the Warriors are a little split.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, ultimately it matters if Lakob or Dunleavy care, probably more so Lakob because Lakob is the one that's going to have to, as they have them void out the player option, you give them north of a hundred million bucks and you're like, all right, you know, like I would never want to be an owner or a GM in that situation. We're like the way we can,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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take a chance here is giving jimmy butler a two plus you know 100 million plus over the next two years but slater was like whatever the internal debates were it was what are we disrupting now a maybe non-playing team so who cares uh yeah and that kind of ends the argument really especially when you see these results yeah i said on the on the pod right after that it wasn't a hail mary
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Are you saying, I'm just to interject quickly, just are you going off of like the rumbling of like Josh Harris really was like, Not sure that he wanted to do this.