Ryan Knudson
Appearances
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
A quick heads up before we get started. This episode discusses suicide. Please listen with care. About a year ago, a man named John Barnett got into his orange Dodge Ram to take a road trip. He was driving from his home in Louisiana to Charleston, South Carolina. He was going there to give a deposition in a long-standing legal case he had against his former employer.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
In his testimony, Barnett said he was humiliated, and it felt like a, quote, "'slap in the face.'" Barnett filed internal ethics complaints and went to HR, but he said his situation never improved. And then, in late 2016, Barnett said he found out his name was at the top of a list of people his managers wanted to get rid of. Boeing said there's no evidence such a list ever existed.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
The company also said he was never demoted and that his pay was never cut, and that the company rotated people's positions around the factory all the time. Barnett later told his lawyers that it was around this time that he was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, and his doctor told him that he could have a heart attack if he didn't leave his job.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
How hard of a decision do you think it was for your brother to quit Boeing, a company that he seemed to love working for?
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
But Barnett said he didn't feel like he had a choice. So, in early 2017, after roughly three decades at Boeing, he retired, ten years earlier than he said he planned to. Barnett moved back to Louisiana to be near his mother and brothers. He built a pool at his house for his nieces and nephews. He got married. On the surface, it seemed like he was ready to move on. But Barnett couldn't move on.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
In a statement, the company said, quote, we are saddened by Mr. Barnett's passing and our thoughts continue to be with his family and friends. Boeing's statement concluded, we encourage all employees at Boeing to speak up if they see a potential problem or issue. Over his career at Boeing, Barnett did speak up. A lot.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Just before he left Boeing, John Barnett reached out to a local lawyer who specializes in whistleblower cases, a man named Rob Turkowitz.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Being a whistleblower can mean lots of things. It can mean just speaking up internally. It can mean going to the media. But in the airline industry, there's actually a law that defines it. It was enacted in the year 2000, and it's known as Air 21.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
The law did several things that tried to improve safety in the airline industry, and one of them was adding protections to employees who spoke up about safety.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
With his lawyer's help, Barnett filed two formal complaints, one with the FAA, alleging safety violations, and another with OSHA, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, alleging that Boeing retaliated against him for raising concerns. While Barnett's two complaints worked their way through the system, he was still haunted by what happened at Boeing.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
In his deposition, Barnett said he thought about applying for other jobs. Remember, he retired 10 years earlier than he said he'd plan to. But he couldn't face it. Too many bad memories. Here's Barnett's lawyer, Rob, again.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
That's pretty, I mean, that sounds pretty intense to have that feeling about, you know, any other job.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
This might seem like an extreme reaction to a job, but to many psychologists who study whistleblowers, it can actually be quite common. Whistleblowers often can't understand why the people in charge don't acknowledge or fix the problems that to them seem so obvious. And for the whistleblower, this dissonance can lead to social isolation, depression, extreme anxiety, and even symptoms of PTSD.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Then, in 2018 and 2019, safety at Boeing became a big story.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
It was a Boeing plane. And of everyone on board, almost 200 people, no one survived. To Barnett, it felt like his worst nightmares were coming true. And then, just a few months later...
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
there are these concerns that he didn't feel were being adequately addressed. To be clear, the two Boeing planes that crashed were different from the ones Barnett worked on and were not produced at the South Carolina plant. And investigators concluded that the crashes were primarily the result of faulty engineering rather than manufacturing problems.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Barnett was watching all of this unfold, and he started talking publicly about his concerns, doing interviews for newspapers, TV shows, and a documentary. Here he is again in an interview with the New York Times.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Meanwhile, Barnett felt like his whistleblower case against Boeing was going nowhere. Barnett filed his two complaints with two different agencies, the FAA and OSHA, but his experience with each agency was very different. The FAA complaint, which is about manufacturing violations, was partly substantiated. The agency said Boeing was already fixing some of the problems Barnett raised.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
With Osha, which looked at his retaliation claims, it took nearly four years for the agency to reach a conclusion. And Osha rejected his claim, but only seemed to address one aspect of it, which was that he was passed over for other jobs. The agency said there wasn't evidence to support that. Osha declined to comment specifically on Barnett's case.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Rob says that both he and Barnett were frustrated with how long the process was taking. But Barnett wasn't ready to give up. He felt like the FAA's findings gave his claims legitimacy, but that OSHA hadn't given him a fair shake. And he worried things at the plant weren't really getting better. So in 2021, he and his lawyer appealed the OSHA ruling and filed a case with the Department of Labor.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Barnett sought compensation for having to retire early and damages for the psychological toll he said he suffered. In response, Boeing did what big corporations do. It fought back. Boeing tried to get pieces of Barnett's case dismissed, without success. It filed a counterclaim, alleging he wrongfully held on to internal company documents. A judge ultimately dismissed that case.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knudson. It's Tuesday, February 18th. Coming up on the show, the life and death of a Boeing whistleblower.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
His lawyer, Rob, also says Boeing dragged its feet in turning over discovery documents. The judge in the case admonished Boeing multiple times for being slow and handing over information. At one point, the judge called the company's compliance with those orders, quote, woefully lacking. In response to questions about this, Boeing said it submitted over 8,500 documents in the case.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
All this legal back and forth kept Barnett busy for years, well after he left Boeing. How much time did you notice him working on his case, his lawsuit against Boeing?
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
How much mental space do you think it took up in his mind?
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
And then, in January of last year, a door plug blew off the side of a Boeing 737 MAX.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Even though it was a different type of plane and not produced at the South Carolina plant where he used to work, Barnett was furious.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
An investigation by the National Transportation Safety Board concluded that bolts that should have held the door plug in place were missing. Boeing apologized and said it was working to fix its processes. About a month after the door plug blew out, Barnett's lawsuit against Boeing finally started picking up. Seven years after he left the company, he now had a trial date.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
And in February 2024, depositions were set to begin. So Barnett got in his truck, that orange Dodge Ram, and drove 14 hours from his home in Pineville, Louisiana to Charleston to give his testimony. When he arrived, he checked into a Holiday Inn just off the highway.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
But the night before Barnett's deposition was going to start, his lawyer Rob says Boeing submitted a bunch of discovery documents that they'd never seen before. So Rob asked to postpone the proceedings so they could go over everything. Barnett talked on the phone to his mom, Vicki.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Burnett ended up staying in that hotel room for two weeks. And then, on March 7th, Barnett's deposition finally got underway. He would get to tell his whole story, under oath, start to finish. Though the questioning was routine, his lawyer Rob says it proved to be hard for him.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Boeing's lawyers questioned him for about seven hours. They combed over the details of his complaints, his performance reviews, emails he exchanged with his managers. They asked whether his bosses were just trying to help him become a better colleague when they told him to have more conversations face-to-face. It was clear that he was exhausted from the first day.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
The next day, it was his lawyer's turn to ask questions. And it was another intense day for Barnett.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
But postponing the rest of the deposition would have pushed back the entire case. So Rob says Barnett agreed to come back again the next morning.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
The next day, when Rob and the other lawyers were sitting around the deposition table, Barnett didn't show up.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
What did you think when you heard that he was dead?
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Back in Louisiana, Barnett's brother Rodney was outside, mowing his lawn. A sheriff sped up his driveway and got out of the car.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Vicki left the store and met up with Rodney and her other son, Mike.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Why didn't you think... What did you think? You said you couldn't believe it, but why was it so surprising to you that he'd taken his own life?
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Do you remember the last conversation that you had with him?
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
John Barnett grew up in Louisiana. His family called him by his middle name, Mitch. Here's his older brother, Rodney Barnett.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Barnett was found in his orange Dodge Ram around 10 a.m. with a gunshot wound to the head. From the hotel security footage, it appears he sat in his truck all night long, his brake lights flashing periodically throughout the night. The last flash was around 7 a.m. It's impossible to know what exactly was on Barnett's mind that night.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
But in his truck, police found that piece of paper, the one with his handwriting all over it. It said things like, quote, I can't do this any longer. Enough. Barnett also wrote that he wanted to be buried face down so that Boeing's leaders could, quote, kiss my ass. Police and the coroner ruled his death a suicide.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Rodney says that through his brother's estate, the family is pursuing his whistleblower case against Boeing.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
There was one more thing the police found in their investigation of Barnett's death that seemed to say a lot about what he was going through. It's an email he sent to his lawyers in 2021. He wrote, quote, In his email, Barnett was also trying to figure out how much compensation he wanted to sue Boeing for.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
We talked to Rodney about his younger brother over the phone from his home in central Louisiana. Rodney said that their mother, Vicki, instilled a clear sense of right and wrong in her kids.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
He said it was easy to figure out the direct costs from retiring early for stuff like lost pay and lost bonuses. But, quote, I used to be a very happy-go-lucky guy that loved his job, his company and the products they built. I had a very positive outlook on life. Boeing has absolutely destroyed my outlook on life. I often sit here and think, what's the use? What's the point of life?
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
A person works hard all their life, trying to do the right thing, treating others with respect, just to have their entire professional life destroyed because they were doing as they were trained and expected to do. Follow the rules. Before we go, if you're considering self-harm, help is available. Call the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by texting or dialing 988. That's 988.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
That's all for today, Tuesday, February 18th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. This episode was reported by me and Heather Rogers, with help from Sharon Turlip and Andrew Tangle. Fact-checking by Mary Mathis. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Rodney remembers one day when they were kids, when Barnett and one of his friends were throwing rocks at an abandoned house, and they got caught.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
After high school, Barnett briefly served in the military. He then went on to a job at Rockwell International, a company that helped build space shuttles for NASA. After that, in 1988, he was hired at Boeing, building airplanes. It was a job he was proud of.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Before Barnett hit the road, he told his mother, Vicki Stokes, that he had a bad feeling about the trip.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
That's Barnett in 2019, in an interview with the New York Times.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
When Barnett started working at Boeing in the late 1980s, the company had a sterling reputation. There was a popular phrase at the time, if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going. Rodney says the company's high standards were part of what his brother loved about his job. Barnett started his career at the Boeing factory in Everett, Washington, near Seattle.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
That's where he got into quality assurance, where his job was to check airplanes for defects.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Over time, Barnett became an expert at the meticulous process of building airplanes and the documentation that goes along with it, which is something that's mandated by the Federal Aviation Administration.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Barnett loved his job, and he felt like he was really good at it, which is why he jumped at an opportunity that came up in 2010 when Boeing was opening a new plant near Charleston, South Carolina. Barnett was brought in to help set up the factory's quality control system on the company's latest model, the 787 Dreamliner.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Barnett's arrival in South Carolina happened as Boeing was undergoing major changes. A little over a decade earlier, Boeing merged with a former rival called McDonnell Douglas. In the years after the merger, and this is according to several former Boeing employees and mid-level executives, the company started scrutinizing every dollar it spent, and it put a greater emphasis on increasing profits.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Safety and quality were still considerations, but the overall focus of the company leaders seemed to be more about maximizing shareholder returns. These changes at Boeing happened slowly, over the course of years.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
But for Barnett, he felt them more acutely when he was transferred to that new plant in South Carolina, which was staffed up with new employees who didn't have the years of experience in the aviation industry like he did. Barnett talked about what it was like in an interview a few years ago on the Today Show.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Barnett worked as a quality manager at the South Carolina plant for seven years. And it was what he experienced during those seven years that changed everything about his relationship with the company. Just before he left Boeing, in 2017, Barnett filed a whistleblower complaint against the company, alleging it had retaliated against him for raising safety concerns.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
After two grueling days of depositions, and before he finished his testimony, Barnett was found dead in his truck in the parking lot of a Holiday Inn. Police ruled his death a suicide. In his truck, on the seat beside him, there was a note. It was in Barnett's handwriting. It said that he was at peace and that he loved his family.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
To understand what happened while Barnett worked there, we read through court filings, including the lengthy deposition he gave just before he died. We talked to former colleagues and family members about Barnett's claims. We also talked to Boeing, though the company declined to make anyone available for an interview. To boil it down, Barnett thought the South Carolina plant was a mess.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
He said he noticed lots of problems, like metal shavings left behind that could damage a plane's wiring, defective parts that were removed from a secure area and could have been installed on airplanes. He was alarmed by the fact that mechanics on the assembly line were allowed to inspect their own work. Boeing confirmed that Barnett raised these issues and said they'd all been fixed.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
The company said it ended the self-inspection program in 2022 and that in most cases, Barnett wasn't the only person to point out problems like these. Boeing said it encourages workers to come forward. Boeing also pointed out that the 787 Dreamliner, which was manufactured at the plant where Barnett worked, has a strong safety record.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
The meat of Barnett's complaint, though, is more about how he was treated when he raised alarms about this stuff. In his deposition, Barnett said he was consistently met with pushback. He said his bosses told him repeatedly that he didn't know how to do his job. One of Barnett's colleagues in South Carolina was a man named Roy Irvin.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
He's retired now, but Roy says it was hard to raise safety concerns.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Roy worked in quality at the South Carolina plant from 2010 to 2020. After Barnett died, he started speaking out publicly about Boeing. Roy remembers one time Barnett called him to the factory floor. He wanted Roy to back him up in a disagreement he was having with his supervisors.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
And so these are situations where he was saying something needs to change inside the airplane. There's a problem that needs to be fixed. And his own bosses were saying, no, it doesn't.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Boeing said the company carefully investigates concerns and said, quote, we take action to address any validated issue. Barnett said in his deposition that many of his superiors and colleagues didn't seem to care about policies and procedures the way he did.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
He recalled a meeting where he told a group of mechanics that documenting production of an airplane was just as important as the airplane itself. Barnett said the whole room burst out laughing. Barnett also testified that his bosses said things in meetings like, we've got to work this weekend because Barnett found an issue.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
He said his superiors pressured him to stop putting so many of the problems he found in writing, but he refused to comply. Here he is talking about that in a Netflix documentary.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
They don't want anything documented. Boeing said employees are, quote, empowered and encouraged to report any concern with safety and quality. Barnett's brother Rodney says Barnett told him Boeing managers said he needed to ease up on his requirements.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
And in large letters, followed by three exclamation points, it said, I pray Boeing pays. Boeing. Barnett worked for the airplane manufacturing giant for nearly 30 years. Before he left the company, he filed a whistleblower complaint with the Department of Labor, alleging the company retaliated against him and pushed him out because he'd raised safety concerns. Boeing disputes this.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Boeing said it had a zero-tolerance policy for employees signing off on inspections they hadn't done, and that there are ways employees can report claims about this. The company said Barnett never raised any valid claims of this nature.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
According to his performance reviews, which were discussed at length in his deposition, it seems like Barnett's managers thought he could be difficult to work with. In those reviews, they said Barnett had operational knowledge, but that they wanted him to be more adaptable and to talk with colleagues in person about how to solve problems, rather than sending emails.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
Barnett was insistent on following policies and procedures down to the letter. His bosses wanted him to be a team player and just get the work done. They said he needed to learn the art of, quote, working in the gray areas. In the South Carolina plant, Barnett started to get lower scores on his reviews.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
And he said that one of his supervisors once told him, quote, I'm going to push you until you break. Boeing disputes that this happened and said the company did not retaliate against Barnett. His mom, Vicki Stokes, saw the toll this was taking on her son when she visited him in South Carolina.
The Journal.
The Life and Death of a Boeing Whistleblower
According to court filings, Barnett started applying for other jobs within Boeing, but he said he'd been blacklisted and couldn't get transferred. At one point, he was moved from managing quality on the production floor, where he actually worked on airplanes, to what he considered to be a demotion, where his job was to keep track of defective parts.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Dutch said losing his job felt worse than getting hacked and doxxed.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Up until that point, did it feel like they had your back?
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Dutch ended up finding another tech job in December, and he says he's been in touch with the FBI about the hack. Still, he felt burned by Disney.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
So he decided to sue. In February, he filed a wrongful termination lawsuit against Disney, alleging slander and whistleblower retaliation for speaking out against the company's cybersecurity standards. Disney did not comment on the lawsuit.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
That's all for today, Monday, March 17th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Bob McMillan, Sarah Krause, and Robbie Whelan. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knudson. It's Monday, March 17th. Coming up on the show, what it feels like to be at the center of a major hack on one of the world's largest companies.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
That is one impressive mustache. Thank you. Dutch's mustache is long, straight, and points directly out to the sides.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
The first sign that Dutch's life was about to be turned upside down happened last spring.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
This is Dutch Van Andel. Up until last year, he lived a pretty ordinary life. He's a software engineering manager, married with two kids, and lives in the suburbs of Los Angeles. But last year, something happened that turned his ordinary life upside down. It started when Dutch downloaded a seemingly innocuous program onto his personal computer.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Other weird things happened too. Like his computer slowed down to the point where he couldn't even use it. And then he got a suspicious login notification to his work account that he didn't recognize. But July is when he knew something was really up. That's when he got a message on Discord, a platform popular with gamers.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
The thing that caught his attention was that the message included details from a conversation he'd had on his work Slack account. It was a chat about his lunch.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Slack was Disney's internal messaging platform at the time, and it's supposed to be private. No one outside the company should have been able to see those messages.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Dutch came to the conclusion that he'd been hacked. He got in touch with Disney's information security team, or InfoSec. It responds to the company's IT emergencies.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Dutch says InfoSec looked into it and said his work laptop looked fine and that it should check his personal computer. So Dutch ran an antivirus program.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Vision LLM, that AI plugin Dutch had downloaded so that his kids could generate images of Easter bunnies and Roblox characters. That program had a hidden virus.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Dutch said that Disney's InfoSec agreed, and they told him that a hacker had also gotten into Disney's systems, and they were downloading massive amounts of data.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
While Dutch was on the phone with InfoSec, he also had his email account open. And he noticed a spammy-looking message show up in his inbox. He deleted it. But then he got another one right away.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Mm-hmm. Like, are they watching me somehow?
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
It was an AI software called Vision LLM, and it could generate images. He wanted something his sons could play with.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
In that third email, the hacker also sent a threat. It said, quote, respond, do what we want, or end up on the net.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
1Password is a password manager. It's considered a way to protect your digital life, and it's often recommended by security experts as a way to make sure you don't get hacked. The hacker was able to get into Dutch's 1Password account because Dutch didn't have two-factor authentication turned on. That's those codes that get pushed to your phone to make sure it's really you.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
getting access to his 1Password account was bad. Because not only did Dutch store all of his passwords there, he also stored personal information like birth certificates and social security numbers, information that Dutch had been accumulating for a decade. And not only that, Dutch also used 1Password for two-factor authentication codes, meaning that by accessing his 1Password account,
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
The hacker got Dutch's passwords and his two-factor codes. It was like they had the ultimate master key to Dutch's entire digital life.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Once he realized this, Dutch had a lot of work to do.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
He didn't know it at the time, but the program had a malicious code in it, a code that gave a hacker access to Dutch's computer. And over a period of months, that hacker stole all of Dutch's personal information, like his bank accounts and passwords,
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
And did you like buy a new computer to do all this stuff? Because they're in your computer, right?
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Dutch said he got a call from Disney's InfoSec team the next morning, and they told him that the hacker had doxed him and his family, meaning they followed through on their threat to put Dutch's information online. All of his personal information, his passwords, his family's birth certificates, everything, was now available for anyone to see.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Meanwhile, at his employer, Disney, they were having problems with the hacker too. And Dutch's nightmare was about to get a lot worse. That's next.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
The same morning that a hacker made all of Dutch's personal information public, they also released massive amounts of Disney data online. Troves of confidential information, including things like passport numbers for cruise workers and sales of theme park passes and streaming data.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
That one terabyte of Disney data included more than 44 million Slack messages, 18,000 spreadsheets, and 13,000 PDFs. And the hacker got it all through Dutch.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
The Wall Street Journal was the first news outlet to report the contents of what the hacker released. The stolen information gave a rare look inside the inner workings of a big company. There were discussions of ad campaigns, studio technology, and information about unreleased projects. There was even revenue data about each of Disney's streaming services, which had never been made public before.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
In a regulatory filing last summer, Disney said it was investigating the incident, but that it wasn't expected to have a material impact on its operations or financial performance. Among the things that the hacker put out there in the data dump was also a claim that Dutch was in on it.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Dutch says that he was not part of the hack.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
It was a nightmare. And it wasn't just his personal life that was hacked. Through Dutch, the hacker also got inside his employer, Disney. Disney has apparently been hit by a cyber attack. The hacking group Noble says it leaked thousands of internal Disney messages. While Dutch's story is unusual, his life online wasn't. And what happened to him could happen to almost anyone.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Eventually, after Dutch finished changing all of his passwords, things started to calm down, and he tried to get back to his job.
The Journal.
The Download That Led to a Massive Hack at Disney
Dutch denies ever viewing pornography on his work computer. In a statement, a Disney spokesperson said his denial is, quote, firmly refuted by the company's review of his company-issued device. After you found out that you had been fired, like, what were you feeling?
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
Sam Bankman Freed, the founder of FTX, who was convicted of fraud, was a follower of a movement called Effective Altruism, which has a lot of overlap with rationalism and its approach and community. Since his conviction, the effective altruism movement has suffered reputational damage and increased scrutiny.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
Do you think that this incident with the Zizians might damage the rationalist movement's reputation or the movement itself?
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
That's all for today. Monday, March 3rd. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're out every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knudson. It's Monday, March 3rd. Coming up on the show, a Silicon Valley intellectual society kicked them out. Now, they're tied to a killing spree.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The rationalists are a loose group of intellectuals, mostly in the San Francisco Bay Area. They get together in person and in online forums to ponder philosophical ideas, like how do we make better decisions? Or how do we know what's true?
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
That's our colleague Zusha Ellenson.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
Many rationalists today are devoted to developing artificial intelligence in a way that's safe for humanity.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The rationalist movement has drawn some influential people. Early on, venture capitalist Peter Thiel funded a rationalist research organization. And former OpenAI researcher Paul Cristiano now leads the federal government's AI Safety Institute. Has the rationalist movement had a real impact on AI safety?
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
Much of the Rationalist's heady conversations take place online.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
LessWrong is filled with long-winded and complex posts. To give you a sense of what it's like on the LessWrong forum, we asked the journal team to read some examples. The stereotyped image of AI catastrophe is a powerful, malicious AI system that takes its creators by surprise and quickly achieves a decisive advantage over the rest of humanity.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The Border Patrol agent was killed in the shootout, as was one of the suspicious passengers.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
This welcoming intellectual online forum caught the eye of a budding rationalist in Alaska, a promising computer programmer fresh out of college. I'm just going to refer to her by her last name, Lasoda.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
In the Bay Area, Lasoda found community and an identity. She came out as transgender. She embraced veganism. She was interested in startups. And she started living on a tugboat in the waters south of San Francisco with a handful of other like-minded rationalists.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
Over time, La Sota's persona evolved into something more conspicuous and extreme. And she started going by the name Ziz.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The bad guys from Star Wars are the Sith. Yeah. The emperor was a Sith. Very bad.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
At one point, Ziz wrote a cryptic blog post about what she called her, quote, journey to the dark side.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
In January, near the Canadian border with Vermont, a Border Patrol agent pulled over a suspicious vehicle with two passengers inside.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The rationalists began distancing themselves from Ziz. They started calling her and her friends on the tugboat the Zizians. Have any of Ziz's followers said anything about why they were drawn to her?
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The Zizians began developing their own theories. Ziz was interested in an idea that the left and right sides of the human brain could be separated into two different identities— To study this, she and other Zizians attempted to keep one half of their brain awake while sleeping.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The Zizians wanted to present their research at rationalist organizations like the Center for Applied Rationality in Berkeley.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
In 2019, Ziz and three other Zizians showed up at a Center for Applied Rationality alumni reunion event.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
As part of the split, the Zizians publicly blasted the rationalist movement.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The rationalist organizations denied the Zizians' accusations. But soon, the growing rebellion didn't seem like it mattered, because by the summer of 2022, the Zizians' run appeared to be over.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The killing of the Border Patrol agent and the landlord occurred within three days of one another.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The Coast Guard searched the waters of the Bay Area for Ziz's body, but nothing turned up. Ziz was presumed dead.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
Their leader was gone, but the Zizians lived on. That's after the break. About three months after Ziz's obituary was published, the Zizians ran into trouble. The group had moved off their tugboat and onto a plot of land in Vallejo, California. But they weren't making rent, and their landlord tried to kick the Zizians off his property.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
A prosecutor's email to Ziz's attorney confirmed the sudden reappearance. Ziz was, quote, alive and well. She wasn't charged in the sword attack on the landlord, but two other Zizians were. They've both denied the charges. What happens next?
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
On New Year's Eve in 2022, an older couple in Pennsylvania was shot and killed in their home. When the police went to question the couple's daughter, they found her at a hotel with Ziz.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
They arrested Ziz for alleged obstruction. Her attorney disputed the charges. Ziz made bail and then vanished again.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
That post went out in early 2023, putting the rationalists on high alert. But after that, the Zizians went quiet, and no one really heard from them. Until this past January, when those two killings happened.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The Border Patrol agent in Vermont, and that landlord in California.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The landlord in California was the same man who lost his eye in the sword attack a few years earlier. And he was set to testify against the Zizians in that case when he was killed. All told, six people have died in connection with the Zizians. There's the landlord, the border patrol agent, the couple in Pennsylvania, and two Zizians themselves, who were killed during the various confrontations.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
The motivation behind these killings is still unclear. In February, Ziz was arrested on trespassing, obstruction, and gun charges following a manhunt. A judge ordered that she be held without bail. She's denied any wrongdoing. How is the rationalist movement processing what's going on?
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
Computer scientists. Vegans. Interested in AI safety. Those characteristics of the alleged suspects were familiar to an influential community of thinkers in California called the Rationalists.
The Journal.
The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement
A leader in the rationalist community, a person named Oliver Habrika, made a post on LessWrong inviting the rationalists to do what they do best, debate and reflect. This time, the topic of the discussion was themselves. We asked one of our colleagues to read it out loud.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
If you're not pushing against the disease, the disease is pushing back against you. That's right.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
That's all for today. Friday, February 14th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. The show is made by... With help from... Our engineers are Griffin Tanner, Nathan Singapak, and Peter Leonard. Our theme music is by So Wiley. Additional music this week by Katherine Anderson, Peter Leonard, Bobby Lord, and Nathan Singapak. Fact-checking by Mary Mathis.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
Thanks for listening. We're off for President's Day. We'll be back with a new episode on Tuesday. See you then.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
The clinic was closed, shut down after President Trump froze almost all foreign aid money. Only a security guard and a cleaner were on the premises.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knudson. It's Friday, February 14th. Coming up on the show, America has spent billions combating AIDS around the world. Is that era now over? Fighting HIV-AIDS has been a big part of America's foreign aid spending for decades.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
In 2003, then-President George W. Bush announced a new governmental initiative called the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, or PEPFAR.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
PEPFAR is the largest commitment by any nation to address a single disease in the world. It's credited with not only saving millions of lives in Africa, but also helping prevent HIV from spreading across the globe, in Asia and Latin America. Congress has reauthorized funding for the program every few years since its inception.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
Last year, funding for PEPFAR was estimated at about $6.5 billion, which is less than a tenth of a percent of the US government's $7 trillion total budget. So how successful would you say this program has been?
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
Its supporters have also included former Vice President Mike Pence. PEPFAR was an extraordinary bipartisan achievement of compassion. Former President Joe Biden. George W. Bush deserves great credit. And even Trump during his first administration. What we've done for AIDS in Africa is unbelievable. We spent...
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
Before it closed, it was providing care to hundreds of patients with HIV-AIDS every day. In the meantime, all the medicine that's sitting inside this clinic is just locked away.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
But when Trump took office a second time, cutting foreign aid funding was one of his first actions. He signed an executive order that essentially froze all of the roughly $65 billion the government spends on foreign aid in total around the world, including PEPFAR.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
One reason the Trump administration says it paused aid is that much of it doesn't align with Trump's politics. Last week, Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt stood in front of the White House and listed off international aid programs that the Trump administration sees as wasteful.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
U.S. federal funds did go to all these programs through the State Department, although the amount of federal money spent on that opera in Colombia was actually closer to $25,000, not $47,000. So was PEPFAR just caught in the crossfire then? Because obviously it's not a program that's supposed to have anything to do with DEI.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
Earlier this week, our colleague Nicholas Barillo went to visit an HIV-AIDS clinic in Kampala, Uganda.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
On PEPFAR specifically, the Trump administration has sent mixed messages. Clinics around the world are closed, and there isn't much guidance from the State Department. But Trump's Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, said he supports PEPFAR, and the administration says that some life-saving activities can get a waiver to resume work.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
meaning each PEPFAR program has to get specific approval. And since so much work has stopped back in Washington, D.C. because of the freeze, in some cases, people on the ground don't know who to call for help.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
Since its founding, this clinic has been funded almost entirely by U.S. foreign aid. For more than 20 years, it's been part of a program known as PEPFAR, a multi-billion dollar U.S. effort specifically designed to stop the spread of HIV-AIDS globally. And how important are the services provided by this clinic?
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
The State Department says some waivers for life-saving programs have been issued. And yesterday, a judge ruled that USAID funding should be allowed to flow again temporarily. But our colleagues in Africa say that doesn't seem to be happening yet.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
In Uganda, Zambia, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, hundreds of health workers who were being paid under PEPFAR were told to go home, and they haven't gone back to work.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
Coming up, we talk to the CEO of a nonprofit that got a lot of its funding from PEPFAR about what this shift in policy will mean for America's standing overseas. Carl Hoffman is CEO of the public health organization HealthX Partners. He's also a former U.S. diplomat. How many countries have you lived in? Probably 10 or 15. Not a crazy number.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
I mean, that's a pretty crazy number for countries to... When the aid freeze went into effect, HealthX Partners was hit particularly hard. Carl's organizations work on HIV, AIDS, and other health programs in more than 40 countries, and roughly half of their nearly $500 million budget comes from the U.S. government, including through PEPFAR.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
So how would you describe and how would you characterize what traditionally has been the role of U.S. aid abroad?
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
So what do you make of the fact that the Trump administration and a number of his supporters seem to think that this is not money that the U.S. taxpayer should be spending money on?
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
It's still tens of billions of dollars, though.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
In Carl's view, the billions of dollars the U.S. spends on foreign aid has compounding benefits.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
But if you listen to the stuff that Elon Musk has been saying, he said that there's also a lot of examples of corruption, waste, money that's being spent on things that Trump and a lot of his supporters don't believe in, like diversity, equity and inclusion efforts. Have you seen things like that? What do you make of that?
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
Do you think there's a lot of waste in the foreign aid system?
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
Carl says he's trying to keep his organization afloat. It's had to lay off or furlough thousands of employees, and they're looking for sources of new funding. Meanwhile, his organization has received waivers to resume some life-saving activities, but no funding to allow that to happen yet. What do you think might step in to fill this void, if anything?
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
PEPFAR has been swept up in President Trump's 90-day freeze on foreign aid. Although the administration has signaled that it didn't intend to pause PEPFAR entirely, the order is having that effect. At this moment, PEPFAR programs are mostly at a halt all across Africa. I asked our other colleague, Michael Phillips, about the effect of the funding freeze in Kenya, where he's based.
The Journal.
The U.S. Spent Billions Fighting AIDS. What Now?
Right now, the future of PEPFAR is unclear. But Carl says most people with diseases like HIV-AIDS don't have time to wait.