Paul Saladino, MD
Appearances
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
You go to McDonald's, that is a metabolic toxin. You are actively poisoning yourself. If you have been eating McDonald's and lots of seed oils your whole life, if you stop today, it takes you potentially four plus years to fully recycle the membranes of all the cells in your body. I think that people don't realize all the places that they're hidden.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Sydney Diet Heart, Minnesota Coronary Experiment at the Rose Corn Oil Trial was one of the first trials done on seed oils in the late 1950s. And it was underpowered, but it clearly showed that seed oils were very harmful for humans. A significantly higher amount of people in the seed oil group versus the saturated fat group had heart attacks. And the p-value was between 0.05 and 0.1.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So there was less than a one in a thousand chance that this result showing seed oils are harmful happens by chance. Less than one in a thousand. But because the p-value wasn't less than 0.05, people say it wasn't a significant finding. That should have been case closed for seed oils in the 1950s.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
there were still 10 more randomized controlled trials that many of which almost funded by the food industry funded by the food industry or which confused the data, which are very complex trials. And there isn't a perfect trial done with seed oils, but I would argue that the best trials with seed oils clearly show they're harmful. It's just that these trials have been suppressed.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And as you know, with a meta analysis, a researcher like Darius Mazzafari and at Tufts who gifted us with the food compass system, which tells us that Fruit Loops and Cheerios are healthier than ground beef and eggs. can write a meta-analysis on seed oils, and he's done this, and he can leave out things like Sydney Diet Heart.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
He can just choose which trials he wants to put in his meta-analysis and write in the abstract that seed oils are benign or trend toward cardiovascular benefit for humans. Wow. This is ludicrous. This is ludicrous. This is the state of the affairs right now.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I hope it changes soon.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
No. Native LDL. Native LDL. you would have a hard time arguing, looking at the medical literature, that native LDL, that is unoxidized, unmodified LDL is atherogenic, right? So something has to happen to our LDL to make it participate. Either to the LDL or to the endothelial wall or both.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I would argue the endothelial wall is the proximate event of atherosclerosis because we know that really uninjured endothelium, uninjured arteries don't really accumulate So you can think about this, and we may have talked about this on a previous podcast, but if we're talking about LDL or ApoB containing lipoproteins, which is a slightly broader family than just LDL,
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
We have, I have the same amount of LDL circulating in my veins. You know, you have veins on your arm too. You can see these are returning blood to my heart from my hands. Deeper in my arm, I have arteries that are pumping blood to my hands. And in between there are capillaries. So I have a continuous system of blood flow.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
The last time I checked my cholesterol, which was about a month ago, my LDL, I think, was 125 milligrams per deciliter. My ApoB is probably just over 100 or just below 100.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Yeah, somebody would consider it high. Yeah. I have the same amount of LDL circulating to my hands, moving through the capillaries, and coming back in my veins. But in me and all humans, we do not see atherosclerosis occurring in native veins. So atherosclerosis doesn't occur in a vein at all in humans. It's because it's lower pressure.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And when you have lower pressure in a vein, you don't denude the endothelium. You don't create proximate endothelial injury that is necessary to start atherosclerosis. If ApoB-containing lipoproteins, that is LDL plus its cousins, are atherogenic, why don't we get atherosclerosis in veins? They have the exact same endothelial lining on the inside.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
If you were in a little spaceship like Rick Moranis in Honey, we're like, what is that? Like, you know, inner space or whatever. You know, if you're running through my body in the artery and the vein, if I put you inside a vein or I put you inside an artery and you're looking from the inside of the vessel to the wall, it looks the same. It looks the same.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
The inside of an artery and the inside of a vein are the same. The endothelium is the same. Yeah, it's just on the outside of the endothelium, you'll have smooth muscle. Versus, yeah, versus more musculature in an artery to help it contract. And you can actually take a vein and you can transplant it into the arterial circulation. So we do this in coronary artery bypass grafting.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
You can take a vein usually from the leg or other places in the body and you can transplant it into the arterial circulation. So you can take a vein and... and put it in the arterial circulation, and it actually gets atherosclerosis very quickly because it is subjected to higher pressure, and that denudes the endothelium.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So when a vein is in the arterial circulation and it has that sort of proximate event, that arterial inner endothelial damage, it will accumulate atherosclerosis, but it doesn't happen in native circulation. And I would argue that is a very strong argument that ApoB is not causal. because I have the same amount of ApoB in my veins.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
If it's so bad for my arteries and my veins, if it's so bad for my endothelium, why isn't it damaging the endothelium in my veins? Because it needs a proximate event to have that happen. Now, circle back to humans today in 2024. There are many studies which suggest that 86 to 93% of us have at least one marker of metabolic dysfunction, right? And these are the metabolic syndrome criteria.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But I think if you look around our population today, which you were hinting at, it's pretty sad. Many of us are obese and many of us are on a continuum of insulin resistance. And when you start to develop insulin resistance, and I'll talk about how this is probably related to seed oils in a moment. When you develop insulin resistance, I think this is what's impairing your immune system.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
We know that diabetics, full-blown insulin resistance, have a lot of trouble regulating their immune system. They can get a cut on their toe and they can lose their foot, right? Because they have such... poor immune function. So as you move along this continuum of insulin resistance, the immune system suffers.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And this is shown over and over and over, that insulin resistance impairs immune function. So I believe what's going on here is that in a diabetic, in any human that is on this pathway of insulin resistance, which we know is related to our processed foods and our lifestyle, you have impairment of the immune system in the arterial wall.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So when you cut your knee, say you're surfing and you hit a reef or you're skateboarding or you're dancing or whatever, you're playing baseball and you skin your knee, your immune system goes there to repair the knee. Well, all of us are getting, quote, skinned knees on the inside of our arteries because all of us have higher pressure in our arteries.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But diabetics, anyone on this insulin-resistant spectrum or continuum is going to have trouble repairing the endothelial damage that happens from daily life. And that I think is what's going on for diabetics that is causing atherosclerosis. All of us get damaged to the arteries. Most of us can repair it. Just like we, you know, I was playing a pickleball in Phoenix recently.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I was there to surf a wave pool and I ran into a wall, right? I was going off the court because I stink at pickleball. And I ran into a cement wall that was there. And I had a little strawberry on my knee. I had a little skinning on my knee. My immune system repairs it. But when you have insulin resistance, it doesn't get repaired in time. And I think that is where the atherosclerosis starts.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Diabetics have continuous damage without functional, actual true repair on the inside of their arteries. And that I think is what's going on that no one's talking about. So the problem is not LDL. We should pay attention to it. If you're diabetic, okay, pay attention to it. But the problem is not the LDL.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
The problem is the insulin resistance and the immune dysfunction that comes with it and the persistent damage to the endothelium, the persistent damage to arteries that comes with it, which leaves you susceptible.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
right going back to the wood analogy we have ldl and i'm mixing my metaphors here but i think about ldl as wood and wood doesn't cause a fire right unless there's a spark right and you can build things out of wood you can build a cabin out of wood but when you have more sparks hormones yep cell walls cell membranes vitamin d3 it does all of these things lots of things are made from yes sex hormones cell membranes we need ldl we need ldl is the carrier
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
LDL is the carrier for all of these vital things in the human body. It doesn't initiate atherosclerosis, but if you have lots of sparks, that dry wood can light on fire, right? And again, I'm mixing my metaphors here. I talked about PUFA earlier as dry wood, but let's talk about LDL as dry wood here.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So yeah, hopefully that's not confusing for people, but you get the idea that like wood doesn't spontaneously combust into a fire, right? Right. What is valuable? LDL is valuable in the human body. It also has immune roles. So to say that ApoB is what we should be lowering without any attention to insulin sensitivity, oxidized LDL, LP little a, it's just ludicrous to me.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
There's so much more to the picture here. Yeah.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I was in Costco the other day filming, and the corn oil has a big heart healthy label on it. It's got the little heart thingy. How is this possible? It's like an emoji. This is ludicrous. So let's talk about how we get insulin resistant, because this is interesting to me.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So when you go to your doctor, and I want the people that are listening to think about this, and your doctor checks your cholesterol, how often does your doctor do any metric that approximates your insulin sensitivity? They're not really telling you about fasting insulin. I have to constantly talk to people and say, ask your doctor for a fasting insulin.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
It's a $30 test that your insurance should pay for, but maybe your insurance won't pay, but it's $30. For the amount of information it gives you, And most- Glucose, hemoglobin, A1C, insulin. All of those also, or ratios of triglycerides, right? But I think fasting insulin is such a good metric of insulin sensitivity and no one is getting it.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And you're interpreting lipids without any context of your insulin sensitivity. I think every lipid panel should be paired with insulin, fasting insulin, because your lipids matter in the context of your insulin sensitivity. And this goes back to Dave Feldman's research, which we will get to.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But I think that what's happening here for people, and this is where it gets really interesting, and we don't have randomized controlled trials here. So we're approximating mechanistic data, but it's really interesting to say that as we talked about earlier, when you eat polyunsaturated fats, they get stored in your body. We just are full of them.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And you mentioned a number earlier that it's important to bring up again, which is the fact that
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Looking at kinetic studies of how we accumulate fatty acids, most people estimate that if you have been eating McDonald's and lots of seed oils your whole life, it takes you potentially four plus years if you stop today to fully recycle the membranes of all the cells in your body, the fatty acid depots, like the fat tissue probably being the least quick to recycle.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But it probably takes about four years to really fully change the composition of all the cell membranes and all the mitochondrial membranes. Wow. That's a big deal, right? There are potentially ways to speed that up that we can talk about, but they're pretty intense. Yeah, I'd like to talk about those.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Yeah, but what's going on is we are stuffing our cell membranes and we are stuffing our mitochondrial membranes with polyunsaturated fatty acids. Our bodies change based on what we're eating. This is the thing that not all calories are created equally. The last time we talked, we talked about my frustration with the notion that you can just eat less calories
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
and even eat bad food, that you can somehow out diet or out exercise a bad diet. And it's not true because if you are eating French fries, yes, you could lose weight eating French fries, but you are immediately stuffing all of your cell membranes, all of your mitochondrial membranes, all of the cells in your fatty acid depots with more polyunsaturated fatty acids. We are in flux.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And so evolutionarily inappropriate diets of polyunsaturated fatty acids that are already oxidized and susceptible to further oxidation in the human body are causing major issues for people. And I think that there's mechanistic data that points to the actual problem here. There is evidence that as the membrane of your mitochondria becomes more highly polyunsaturated, you actually get proton leak.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So the mitochondria is quite a complex little organelle, right? Probably evidence of endosymbiosis, this primordial... connection that we had with some sort of a bacteria hundreds of millions of years ago, where a nucleated organism actually engulfed a bacteria and that bacteria started working for us. And now we have trillions of these mitochondria in our bodies.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And this is the way that our bodies convert food energy into kinetic energy. It's through the mitochondria. This is where beta oxidation and glycolysis happen. or the downstream biochemistry after glycolysis happened in the mitochondria. So this is where the Krebs cycle happens.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And so in order to convert food energy, which is potential energy, to kinetic energy, actual usable ATP, which we use to repair DNA, to make hormones, to make cellular processes, to rebuild our bodies, to run our brains, everything in our body happens with kinetic energy, ATP, that comes from food. But in between are our mitochondria.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So potential energy in food, kinetic energy used to make a vital, fertile, happy, healthy human being, in between is our mitochondria. If you break the mitochondria, and you've spoken about this at length, if you break the mitochondria, you get stuck with potential energy. And what does that look like? That looks like fat humans. And so it's not just about calories. Fat, insulin-resistant humans.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
It's not just about calories. It's about what are those calories doing to your cellular energy factories. If they are breaking your mitochondria, you are going to store more of those calories.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So when you look at a label on Doritos and it says 200 calories per serving, that is baloney because you can't actually make that Dorito into 200 calories of kinetic energy because there are ingredients in that Dorito, all sorts of ingredients, that are breaking your mitochondria. Hmm. And so when you stuff your mitochondrial membranes, right, there's two mitochondrial membranes.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
The inner mitochondrial membrane is kind of the ground zero. Inside the mitochondria is where the Krebs cycle happens, in deep there. And as you are doing this electron transport chain, you are moving protons across those membranes to create a gradient.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And then the protons moving down the gradient through the little ATP motor, complex five of the mitochondrial electron transport chain, that's what makes ATP. But if those protons are leaking back across, you're not making ATP. And that happens when you stuff your mitochondria with polyunsaturated fatty acids. Wow. at an evolutionarily inappropriate level.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So there's lots of mechanisms by which stuffing your cells full of polyunsaturated fats creates a lot of problems for humans at this formation of energy level. And I think that's what's hard for people to wrap their head around because it's like, this is mechanistic research and we don't have a study in humans to prove that because who would fund it?
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
It's so tricky, but I think that it's pretty clear that We are doing something very wrong as humans today. It's not just that we are eating too many calories. We're eating slightly more calories. But, and I talk about this in the Fed Alive documentary, in the last 20 to 30 years in the United States, we have not increased calorie consumption at all. And obesity has gone from 30% to 42%.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
We're not eating more calories. We're just getting fatter. What's going on? We're not converting the food energy to kinetic energy because we're breaking our mitochondria. And there are other things that I believe break mitochondria, but I think seed oils are a major factor. We've never had these in our diets at this level.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And I think that the way out, which you want to talk about, is stopping eating so many polyunsaturated fats, particularly this omega-6 linoleic acid.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
There are so many markers of inflammation that increase when you fill the body with these oxidation-prone oils. And yet, the mainstream perspective Harvard, many apparently intelligent physicians in the community, longevity influencers are still holding fast to the claim that seed oils are benign for humans. And I would argue that the best trials with seed oils clearly show they're harmful.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
It's crazy. This is a mini documentary. It's only about 37 minutes long. I did it in collaboration with Heart and Soil Supplements. Those testicle pills that I was emptying into your raw milk this morning.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
You can't even taste them. Those are testicle pills from Heart and Soil Supplements. Heart and Soil is just a company that I built to help people get organs in the capsules. But Hardened Soil has an amazing research team, and I collaborated with them to make this mini documentary on seed oils. It's called Fed a Lie. And it's kind of an entry-level seed oil documentary.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
It's all connected.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So linoleic acid, this 18-carbon polyunsaturated omega-6 fatty acid, is also the most abundant fatty acid in your LDL. So your LDL is a balloon that carries cholesterol and triglycerides. The most abundant fatty acid in there is linoleic acid. So even if that linoleic acid is not oxidized before it gets in the LDL, the population of the membrane of the LDL changes when you eat more seed oils.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So you make a membrane that is more susceptible to oxidation and you make a membrane that is more difficult for your body to manage in terms of oxidative stress at the level of the LDL. So your actual LDL particle is full of linoleic acid when you're eating French fries and cookies and cakes and crackers and dressings. And if you don't eat those things, your LDL remodels very quickly.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
It's just to get people asking the questions. So I'm in the documentary. Chris Kenobi's in the documentary. He's an MD. He's an ophthalmologist. And Nina Teicholtz is in the documentary, who wrote The Big Fat Surprise. The Big Fat Surprise. detailing a lot of the sort of corruption and confusion in the space around the history around saturated fat versus seed oils.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So let's talk about how to detox this.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
This is really interesting to me because it starts to connect a lot of the dots. So canonical thinking is four years. So, okay, that's a long time. But if someone is listening to this and you are eating seed oils and you just stop today, right? Today is the day before Thanksgiving 2024. If you stop eating seed oils today. We'll give you until today after Thanksgiving.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
We'll give them one more day, Paul. Okay, fair, fair, fair. Don't tell them. All right. Black Friday. Black Friday. Seed oil, black Friday. You're not eating seed oils and anything else for the rest of your next four years. You will almost essentially remodel all of your cells, all the fatty tissues, all of your mitochondria in four years.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But there are ways to speed it up, and there are things to do to protect your body against the oxidation of these seed oils. Let's talk about speeding it up. This is interesting. And probably I will say from the outset, maybe not super practical for most people.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So there are studies in monkeys, Cebus monkeys, and I saw this today, where they were able to speed up the remodeling from four years to 30 days. But they fed the monkeys a very, very low fat diet. And when you feed a very low fat diet as a human, you don't feel good, right? And I'm not really advocating for this. I'm just telling you research shows this in monkeys.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And then it reminded me of something called the rice diet. You ever heard of Walter Kempner? This guy's fascinating. He died in the 90s. But in the 1950s and 1960s, he took diabetics and he gave them a diet of processed white sugar and rice. A 2,000 calorie, very low fat diet of almost white rice and white sugar. And their diabetes got better. It reversed. Wow.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But in order to do this, he had to lock them in a hospital. And there's controversy because apparently he had to whip them to get them. You cannot keep a human on this diet. I'm not advocating for humans being whipped in metabolic wards. But it's an interesting study that would never be repeated today. So it's an example of a very low fat diet in humans.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And the pictures in his studies are remarkable. It's like a very rotund man. And he's rail thin after six months. And the diabetes completely reverses. And even when Walter reversed or liberalized their diet, the diabetes did not come back. So there are now multiple data points of very low-fat diets leading to resolution of metabolic dysfunction.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And I think what's going on here is accelerated membrane remodeling. So I'm just saying there are ways to do this. It's not easy. If a human wanted to accelerate the remodeling of your membranes, you could potentially eat a lower fat diet for 30, 60, 90 days. Understanding that a low fat diet is not super sustainable for humans.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But the other thing you could do is eat a very low polyunsaturated fat diet. You can look at the amount of linoleic acid in your diet and lower it. Even after avoiding seed oils, should you avoid olive oil? Olive oil can be 12 to 28% linoleic acid, right? Avocado oil can be 20% linoleic acid.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
You're not saying that there's corruption in our nutritional research. In the food industry, imagine that. Perhaps a little bit of corruption. We can talk about it. But what's so interesting when you think about this from the perspective of seed oils and the history is that we really have been, I believe, fed a lie regarding their benign nature or their health benefits.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So I think you could accelerate the turnover of your membranes toward a lower linoleic acid membrane state by eating no olive oil, no avocado oil. Again, do it after Thanksgiving, right? And just lower in the amounts of linoleic acid in your diet. Beef tallow, 1% to 2% linoleic acid. Butter, 1% to 2% linoleic acid. Avocado oil, olive oil, 12 to 25. Canola, 25% linoleic acid. Soybean oil, 50%.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Corn oil, 45%. Grape seed oil, 55 to 60% linoleic acid. So if you focus on the low linoleic acid animal fats, the ones we've been told that are bad for us, you can accelerate the turnover of linoleic acid in your cell membranes. Butter especially, I believe, could be protective. And I'll tell you why. This is the second piece of this equation.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So lower fat oils or fats, animal fats that are much lower in linoleic acid, I believe this will accelerate the turnover of your membranes. There's a fatty acid, we were talking about this last night, called C15, pentadecanoic acid. Pentadecanoic acid. Most of the fatty acids in your cells are odd chain. saturated fats, C12, C14, C16, C18, lauric, myristic, palmitic, and stearic acid.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
They're all odd chain. They're all even chain fatty acids, right? Odd chain fatty acids, C15 and C17 are starting to be understood, or we're looking at research. And there's research that suggests that C15 levels in your cell membranes can be protective against oxidative stress in your membrane.
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So polyunsaturated fatty acid peroxidation, lipid peroxidation induced cell death is called ferroptosis. So apoptosis is programmed cell death, but ferroptosis is oxidative stress induced cell death. And C15 levels in your cell membranes protect against ferroptosis. So the ideal level of C15 in the study that I think was published in 2024
The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka
129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I think it's by Ven Watson is the main author, was 0.4 to 0.64% of your cell membrane is C15. Where do you get C15 in your diet? Butter and dairy. Dairy fats and butter are good sources of C15. In fact, they track so much that you can look at someone's C15 levels and tell how much dairy fat they're eating. Again, dairy fat being something that's been vilified, but you and I had raw milk.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And in fact... I have to tell the story. So we got raw milk from Southwest ranches. I love these guys here in Miami. And they have, they gave us glass containers of raw milk. And this is raw milk from a cow. And this raw milk is so good that you can see the cream on top of the raw milk in the fridge.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
You stole the cream off my milk. I literally did. He admitted to it. When he came back, he was like, damn, you dog. He took all the good cream. But this is such good raw milk.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I will willingly pay the tax. Thank you for having me at your house. But you can see, and I'll post it on my stories or something. We can post a video together showing this. Because I want to show this because there's a lot of raw milk that I get that you can't see this cream versus milk. But like that cream on top of the raw milk, What you did there, Gary, is you got a C15 infusion.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And as you suggested, it kind of all... centers around this idea of cholesterol. So the only thing that seed oils might have going for them is that they lower ApoB. They lower your cholesterol, quote unquote. And the mainstream medical paradigm, which I was trained in, perhaps propagandized in- He's a medical doctor, by the way. He's an MD. Yeah. It's all about lowering cholesterol. Often-
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
By stealing the cream off of the raw milk, which I willingly give to you, happy Thanksgiving, you had C15. And that C15 changes the composition of your cell membranes, and that looks to be protective against theroptosis, lipid peroxide-induced cell death. So what are we worried about? What are we worried about with polyunsaturated fats? We're worried about lipid peroxidation.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
We're worried about cellular damage. eat dairy fat. This means butter is healthy, seed oils are garbage. So doing more butter and less or no seed oils could also be protective. So in summary, I think there are human and monkey or primate studies showing that low fat diets can accelerate this. And I think if you really want to accelerate turnover of your cell membranes to detox from seed oils,
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
you have to get low linoleic acid in your diet. Low linoleic acid. Which probably means even avoiding, if you really want to optimize, avoiding avocado oil, avoiding olive oil, and focusing on butter, especially with C15 or tallow long-term. That would be, I think that there's a case to be made for that in the research. And look-
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
maybe in this administration we'll actually get some funding to do that study, right? So this is the thing. I will freely say there is no randomized double-blind controlled trial to prove that, but I'm connecting the dots with the research that's out there. There are mechanistic studies.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
There are studies to suggest that this happens in both humans and in primates, and so I think it's very reasonable to do that.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
It does.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
The simple things. Yeah.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Because nature designs it perfectly. How can we go? You can't go wrong eating simple whole foods. It's just unprocessed animal foods, unprocessed plant foods. You'll be great.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So omega-3 is also polyunsaturated. And omega-3 versus omega-6 is just a nomenclature designation based upon where the first double bond is based from the end of the molecule. So if you look at a fatty acid, it's a long chain of carbons with a carboxylic acid group on the end.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And the first desaturation point, which is a double bond, if it's close to the end of the molecule, if it's three carbons from the end, we call it an omega-3. If it's six carbons from the end, we call it an omega-6. Omega-3s are in much smaller amounts in our diets than omega-6s. And need to be in higher amounts, yeah. Well, they probably should be in higher amounts for most of us, right?
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Many of us, you and I, get plenty of omega-3s and maybe don't need to increase, right? Right. Omega-3s occur naturally. And omega-3s, we're talking about ALA, which is alpha-linolenic acid, not linoleic, alpha-linolenic acid. DHA, docosahexaenoic acid, EPA, eicosapentaenoic acid, and DPA, docosapentaenoic acid. And there's a sort of a biosynthesis pathway, and the pathways parallel, right?
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So there's the same exact series of enzymes. These are desaturases and elongases that turn ALA into DPA, and they also turn linoleic acid into arachidonic acid and other omega-6 downstream metabolites. And so D5D, D6D, these are shared enzymes between omega-3 and omega-6.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
in a myopic view, right? So if you are an MD, you are basically trained to lower ApoB and or LDL cholesterol, no matter what, without much attention to other metrics that may have more weight on your cardiovascular risk or that are simply more relevant, like oxidized LDL, LP little a, LPPLA2, which is lipoprotein associated phospholipase A2.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And one of the things we know is that if you're eating a lot of omega-6, and I would argue that humans are eating evolutionarily inappropriately high amounts of omega-6, and probably for many, evolutionarily inappropriately low amounts of omega-3, because processed foods don't have much omega-3, but they're full of omega-6. This is a problem because these pathways are parallel.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And when you eat too much omega-6, all the enzymatic activity of those shared enzymes goes to the omega-6 pathway, and you can't really biotransform the omega-3s.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
You can get preformed omega-3s in your diet, but you are not really gonna be able to biotransform anything if you're getting ALA, alpha-linolenic acid, or any of the upstream omega-3 metabolites, and you wanna turn them into DPA or downstream metabolites. You can't do that well if you're eating a lot of omega-6.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So if you look at the amount of omega-3 that I eat, it's pretty small in my diet, relatively speaking. I have egg yolks sometimes and I get my omega-3s from animal fats. There's omega-3s in that cream on the milk, right? There's omega-3s in meat. I don't feel like I need to supplement with a fish oil because I'm eating unprocessed animal foods that are primarily fed grass.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And my body can biotransform alpha-linolenic acid into EPA, DHA, DPA. I've done these checks, and I have lots of EPA, DHA, and DPA in my body, and I don't take a fish oil supplement because I'm eating less omega-6. I have very low levels of omega-6, so my body can use those parallel enzymes.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
The omega-6 comes from seed oils. Right? Primarily. Yeah, you can get a little bit of omega-6 if you're eating almonds. I don't think that's a problem for most people if you can digest almonds. That's a separate conversation that we've had about, I don't think almonds are very digestible, but you're not getting a lot of omega-6 if you're eating unprocessed plant foods. You're just not.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But you're getting a lot of omega-6 from the seed oils. Now, asterisk, we are also getting evolutionarily inappropriate amounts of omega-6 from things like chicken and pork. Because Going back to our previous point, humans, chickens, and pigs are all monogastric animals. We all store polyunsaturated fats.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
When you are eating a chicken and the chicken thigh is going to be fattier, if you're eating a chicken thigh and that chicken is fed corn and soy, just like humans that are fed corn and soy oils, that chicken is accumulating linoleic acid in their fatty acid, in their tissues. So chickens historically, if you look at wild chickens, 4% linoleic acid in their fat. Chickens today, 20%. Wow.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Same with pigs. 4% to 5%, wild hogs, right? 4% to 5% linoleic acid in their tissues. Today, 20% linoleic acid in their tissues. So do I think that eating traditionally raised pork and chicken is the major contributor to linoleic acid? No. This is not the biggest. It's mostly seed oils.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But if somebody is really trying to be aware of... evolutionarily appropriate, biologically appropriate consumption of linoleic acid, you have to start thinking about your bacon. I'm sorry. And look, you can do it. Raise your own pigs. Let them root in the ground. Let them eat bugs and worms and mice, because they do eat other animals. And let them eat roots.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Don't feed them corn and soy, and your pigs will have much lower amounts of linoleic acid. There are more and more of these producers out there doing low LA pork. Wow. Historically... we are eating pork that is full of linoleic acid because of what they're fed.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So most of it is coming from seed oils and it's coming from, and this also happens with our eggs, Gary, too, which is why it's important to eat chickens or eggs from chickens that are eating the right things, right? So if chickens are eating better, there's less linoleic acid in their eggs. But if chickens are eating corn and soy, they pour more linoleic acid into their eggs.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And so there was recently an article that came out about this. The amount of linoleic acid in egg yolks is higher than it probably should be historically. So the quality of what your chickens is eating, and I don't want this, at this point I'll pause and say, I don't want this to be overwhelming for people. Knowledge is power, know better, do better.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And this is where it starts to get interesting because I'll say this about seed oils. I think you could come to the conclusion that seed oils are benign for humans if You ignore all historical data, all evolutionary precedent. Humans have never had this in our diets.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I'm just offering information that anyone listening to this can use wherever they are in their health journey. If your first step is getting rid of seed oils, get rid of seed oils. Keep eating pork, keep eating chicken, keep eating your eggs. Don't worry about that yet. That's step three. That's step three, but I'm giving you all the steps, right?
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So that's where all of the linoleic acid is coming from in our diets. And it's kind of tough because when you think about it, we're getting it from all angles. If the chickens that you're eating are fed corn and soy, and the pork you're eating is fed corn and soy, and the eggs are coming from chickens that are fed corn and soy, and you're eating sweet oils.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Yeah, yeah. Then is it any wonder? Think about all of these inputs in our diets. And I'll go back to this phrase, evolutionarily inappropriate consumption of excess amounts of linoleic acid in our diet. And I think it's a real problem for humans. And again, it happens at every level. The good news here is that beef is a ruminant, right?
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Beef, so cows, bison, lamb, elk, deer, these animals do not bioaccumulate linoleic acid. They have the biochemical machinery to saturate polyunsaturated fatty acids. We do not. So if a cow is fed grains, it has essentially the same amount of linoleic acid in its fat as a cow that's fed grass. I think a cow is better when it's fed grass
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But a grain-fed cow does not have the same magnification of linoleic acid in its tissue as a chicken or a pig because they're monogastric. Or a human, right? Not that we're eating humans, but humans store this. So we have the same issue. There's evidence from, I guess, archaeology or anthropology that
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
In our fatty tissues, humans historically had 2%, 3% linoleic acid, and now we're looking at 20-plus percent linoleic acid in our fat. So we are the same as a chicken or a pig being stuffed.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Back to the mitochondrial thing we talked about with the proton leak and, you know, potentially impairing at a cellular energy level. The hypothesis, which I think is supported by the literature, is that it's impairing the biotransformation of potential energy to kinetic energy.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
You ignore all animal studies, which clearly show that seed oils increase rates of cancer, non-alcoholic steatohepatitis, which is liver injury. That's very bad in animals. They increase adiposity. They increase cardiovascular disease in animal models.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
You have to ignore all mechanistic studies, which clearly show that linoleic acid, this 18-carbon omega-6 fatty acid, is very susceptible to oxidation in the biological systems.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But it's low fat. It illustrates the point, right? Yeah, yeah.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And you also have to kind of cherry-pick the randomized controlled trials in humans and ignore the randomized controlled trials in humans that show that when you feed people seed oils versus olive oil or saturated fat, they have increased oxidized LDL, increased LP little a, and increased LP PLA. Increased LP little a? Uh-huh, increased LP little a, 7% to 10%.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I mean, you and I both, I mean, we talked about this on the first podcast that we did. I wrote a book about the carnivore diet. I think that something with more foods works better for me and a lot of people long-term. But think about what happens if you just eat steak. You are just eating animal fat. which is very low in linoleic acid.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
You're essentially doing a gut reset because you're just eating meat, which is very highly digestible for most people, contrary to popular belief. And you're eating only animal fat. You're not eating olive oil or avocado oil. You're not eating any seed oils. You're not eating any oils that are high in linoleic acid. A lot of things get better.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I think that for a lot of people, it doesn't work long-term. It gets a little too limiting. But it can be really powerful. And I think that this is where I'm interested in this idea of an animal-based diet, kind of this in-between. And on some recent podcasts, I thought maybe animal-based is kind of like carnivore 2.0, right?
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Maybe you do carnivore as a reset, or you can just go right to animal-based. And animal-based, for people that don't know, it's just a term that I've used to help people understand the framework. It's like meat plus fruit. So I've got some squash in there on the table. Squash is a fruit.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Yeah, making orange juice. But the meat plus the fruit, and obviously you're getting the organs in there too, that works really well. And it's a little more sustainable.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I think we talked about on the previous podcast.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
It's crazy. And I've even seen people attacking honey. And you and I, we geek out on honey. Because I brought you this honey from my house in Costa Rica. What was it called? Mariola honey. Yeah, dude. I'm so bummed that you didn't bring it to me this time. Stingless bees. I'm bringing it next time. Stingless bees. Those are my kind of bees. They're amazing.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So I have a hive in my house of Mariola honey. But there's been people attacking honey recently. But if you look at the medical literature, you can't attack honey.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I mean, honey improves insulin sensitivity. Sucrose, not so much, which is this pure molecule that's been extracted from the honey. Honey has over 300 bioactive compounds. But honey improves metabolic function in humans. And honey improves testosterone. And there's review papers written about honey for metabolic illness. It's wild.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And we get so myopic in medicine, kind of like with the LDL, we just focus on blood glucose. Blood glucose is a symptom of underlying metabolic dysfunction. It's not the metabolic dysfunction. Eating honey does not cause insulin resistance. Honey doesn't cause diabetes. If you have diabetes, honey is gonna spike your blood sugar, but it didn't cause it.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So if you have diabetes, yeah, don't eat as much honey as you or I, But small amounts of honey, probably beneficial. And honey didn't cause the problem. We have to point the weapons at the actual cause. If you point the weapon at the wrong cause, you're just putting your resources where they shouldn't be. And as we talked about, ApoB, wrong place to put your weapon. Insulin resistance.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Glucose, fructose, wrong place to point your weapon. Point your weapon at insulin resistance. The same thing with fruit. If you look at someone who's trying to make a case that fructose is harmful, invariably they will cite studies in animals who don't have the same biochemistry.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
They do much higher rates of de novo lipogenesis when they are presented with fructose, meaning if you give fructose to a rat, it's making much more of that into body fat than we do as a human. We do 1%. You give a human, 1% of fructose goes to fat via de novo lipogenesis. Most of it goes to glucose, it goes to glycogen, it goes to lactate.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I mean, fructose doesn't turn into fat in humans anywhere near like it does in animals. So you can't look at animal studies for fructose metabolism because it's completely different. It's completely different. And if you look at human studies with fructose, they are, as you suggest, invariably giving pure fructose.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
It's just that these trials have been suppressed.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
There's not a single fruit or honey or anything on the planet where you're getting pure fructose without glucose. And in the gut, It's all symporters. It's all transporters that need glucose and fructose to move across the gut lining. And so if you get free fructose in the gut, it gets stuck in the gut. Well, what happens if fructose gets stuck in the gut?
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
It causes overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria. And then you get lipopolysaccharide, you get endotoxin. So they've done these studies in animals where they'll give free fructose and they'll give something that blocks TLR4 or 5, toll-like receptor 4 or 5, which is what endotoxin triggers eventually. And the negative effects of fructose are essentially abolished. Wow.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So the negative effects of fructose at the level of the gut and humans is driven by endotoxin. And we don't get more endotoxin when we eat fruit. In fact, I think you could easily make a case that when you eat a blueberry or you're eating a persimmon or you're eating orange juice, endotoxin, which is lipopolysaccharide, goes down.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But the harmful effects of fructose in humans are isolated fructose feeding leading to LPS. So it's just Again, it really mirrors a lot of the discussion around seed oil research or ApoB. I think that people in the health space are well-intentioned and super intelligent, but I really hope we can all come together and consider all of the research in its entirety with candor.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Because I think if you just... It's hard, we need a lot of people to look at this because it's easy for one person, and I will raise my hand, I wanna collaborate with people who think differently than me. It's easy for one person just to see the research in less than its entirety.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And if you're only looking at the fructose research in humans that's isolated fructose feeding, or you're only looking at the research with LDL in people that are insulin resistant, or you're only looking at the seed oil research in the trials that are flawed because of their design, you're gonna come to the wrong conclusion. And that's the problem here.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
That really helped. We can talk about LP little a because I want to share with you some data from my friend Dave Feldman about LP little a also. Really? Yeah. Yeah, we'll get to that.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Maha, you know, like Make America Healthy Again gets me pretty excited. I was pretty bummed to see RFK Jr. with the photo of the McDonald's on the plane. Oh, that one bummed me out too. RFK, come on. But I believe his heart is good. And I'm really excited to see where it goes over the next four years. I mean, who, Jay Bhattacharya, did you see this? Head of the NIH?
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Yeah, this researcher from Stanford was recently nominated for the head of the NIH. So Jay Bhattacharya was one of the guys kind of raising the alarm during COVID.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Yeah, he was nominated for the head of the NIH. You know, RFK Jr., head of Health and Human Services. I think Marty McQuarrie is head of the FDA potentially, right? So it's going to be interesting to see where this goes. Yeah. Because I think that at the level of the Senate, You have a Republican-controlled Senate, but you have a lot of people in the Senate who have ties to Big Food.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So I think that there's going to be—hopefully there's enough pressure.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Decision-making.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
We've talked about this at the USDA. So maybe somebody was, I mean, I wonder who's gonna head the USDA, but Nina Teicholz, who's in this seed oil documentary, has pointed out 19 out of 20 members of the USDA Dietary Guidelines Committee 2020 to 2025 had ties to pharma and processed food industry.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Things like ILC, the International Life Sciences Institute, which is just a euphemistic title for a lobbying group for Pepsi and Kraft and General Mills. 95% of them had ties. This is the USDA Dietary Guidelines Committee that makes policy for food and food stamps and school lunches. It's crazy. It's absolutely ludicrous. The amount of corruption at those levels is sickening.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And this is not increased screening. This is increased incidents, right? This is not that we're more aware of it. When you were in high school, when I was in high school, They were not undiagnosed kids. There were just no kids.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
These are not something you can hide. This is increased incidents. This is humans getting less healthy in front of our eyes. In real time.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But And we talked about this earlier. The USDA recently came out and tweeted, we don't have enough data that ultra-processed foods- Yeah, I saw that ultra-processed foods. I was like, what do you mean we don't have enough data? The USDA Dietary Guidelines Committee 2020 to 2025, thankfully they're out of here in like a year. Not even, a couple months. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So they tweeted, we don't have enough data. We need more data. Who's going to fund it? That ultra processed foods are behind the obesity crisis. Are you crazy? I mean, there's Kevin Hall did a study about this and there's another study that was published. That's essentially the exact same thing.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
You put people in a metabolic ward, you control everything they're eating for two weeks when you give them the same amount of calories, but they can eat as much as they want in ultra processed food or processed food and ultra processed food or unprocessed food. They consistently eat more ultra processed food. They gain two pounds a week. I think was the study. Maybe, yeah, something like that.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Two pounds a week on ultra-processed food. Dr. Hyman talked about this. They're given the exact same calories. They try to match everything for sugar, salt, fat, macros. The ultra-processed food is just more addictive. It doesn't trigger satiety.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
There's natural ozempic. It's meat and plant foods. Yeah, try to overeat red rice. It's hard. Try to overeat a steak. That's natural ozempic, man. Meat in a salad, meat and fruit, it's hard to overeat that, which is why it kind of kills me.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And not have it within them.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
That happened to you.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Put them in the sun.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
They do let them go on recess.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
you know the federal government was going to subsidize lunchables for the public school system it's like this isn't even food what yeah come on we're getting way off the way down the rabbit hole but no but it's all relevant it's all connected we're not that far down the rabbit hole and you've seen this clip of fatima stanford who i think is a harvard physician on 60 minutes with barbara walters telling her that obesity is a genetic disease
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And I will paraphrase her, but I'm basically, this is pretty close to what she said. She said, even if you do diet and exercise right, 60 to 75% of people will become obese. That is absolutely. Why didn't we have this in the fifties then? It's malarkey. We had genetics back then. Oh my gosh. And she's paid by Ozempic. She's on. And going back to what we were saying earlier,
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Darius Mazzafarian, who writes this meta-analysis on seed oils, paid by Bungie, seed oil manufacturer, right? So again, I'm not saying it's all like that. I think their researchers get it right, get it wrong, even if they're not funded by industry. But let's be honest about who's funded by industry and really talk about this. When
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
When your Tufts nutrition food compass guy is funded by seed oils, he's funded by ultra processed food. And then this woman at Harvard is on 60 Minutes saying it's a genetic disease. You're receiving funding from Ozempic.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Where's the fat gene?
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But it's genetic.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
They're all eating the same foods. They're all in the same environment.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Right.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So and I think that RFK Jr. put this in the right context. This is poison. Right. I think that you have foods that promote health in humans and then you have poison. Yeah. And you have non-foods and then you have poisons. I agree. I agree. You have poison.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Right. These are metabolic poisons. poisons, metabolic poisons that are legal. So cigarettes regulated, alcohol regulated, right? Raw milk is illegal in many places, but metabolic poisons are legal. And that's what's not, I don't think we've really framed it in that perspective that like, I would see this as you go to McDonald's, that is a metabolic toxin. You are actively poisoning yourself.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And look, we all do it. I've had alcohol in my life. Alcohol is also a toxin. Right. I have smoked one and a half cigarettes in my whole life. There's a whole story about that. But we all engage in some toxic behavior. No question. It's part of being human. Eat birthday cake with your kids.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But look, if you don't understand that that is a metabolic poison and your body will cross a threshold at which point your metabolism, your mitochondria will become broken, we're missing the plot. Yeah, I agree. These are poisons. Yeah, I agree. Paul, thank you so much, man.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
and I probably will answer it in the same way. I don't remember exactly how I answered it. For me, it means being able to get up, put my bare feet on the ground, put the sun in my eyes, hopefully go in the ocean and get some grounding, be in nature and spend time with people I care about in nature and have the health and the vitality that is necessary to do that.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Like being able for me, the best part of my life is spending time with people I care about in nature. And I need health and I need vitality to do that. Whether we're surfing, whether we're climbing mountains, whether we are snowboarding in the mountains or whether we are in the ocean, you know, just in a river, like that is being the ultimate human.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And like my vitality, my energy, my motivation, my strength, comes from having a metabolism that works and so i need i need to be healthy to be able to do those things and make the memories that i will treasure for my life yeah amen well that's great guys and as always that's just science
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Right, so seed oils are often called vegetable oils. And I think that's kind of a marketing claim, right? That's a euphemism. They're seed oils. They're called vegetable oils probably because we all associate vegetables with health, which is a separate conversation.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
But in order to get oil out of a plant seed, whether it's a rapeseed, which is the precursor of canola oil, or a soybean, or a peanut, or I mean- Sunflower. Corn, right? Corn, canola, sunflower, safflower, grapeseed, rice bran, all of these are seed oils. Mm-hmm. you have to do refining, bleaching, and deodorization.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And if anyone has ever seen a seed oil factory, it looks like an oil refinery because that's what it is. There's huge smokestacks with either water condensation vapor coming out or other pollutants coming out of the smokestacks. It's a huge process with grinding, with extraction, with degumming, with deodorization.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
We've talked about this extraction with hexane, contaminated with hydroxide, very often bleach. Yeah, they're refined, bleached, and deodorized oils. And the heating process in seed oils, it starts with a grinding step. Then they're heated to 200 degrees. Then they're heated to like 300 degrees. And then they're heated to over 400, 500 degrees Fahrenheit.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Remember, this is an omega-6 polyunsaturated fat-rich oil. Sometimes up to 55% of the oil is linoleic acid. And when you heat linoleic acid to 500 degrees Fahrenheit, you get massive amounts of lipid peroxides. which is essentially rusted oil or rancid oxidized oil. And it's just, this is the nature of the oil. This is organic chemistry. You cannot avoid this.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So people have looked at levels of lipid peroxides. These are oxidized oils and these are reactive products. When you put these into your body, they initiate a chain reaction. And that chain reaction can partially be quelled or stopped by things like vitamin E or vitamin C, depending on whether you're in the lipid soluble or the water soluble fraction of your body.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
but it cannot entirely be abolished. This uses up resources in your body. And the idea with seed oils is that when you eat polyunsaturated fats, whether it's from fish oil or from seed oils, We store these, and we talked about this last night in our pre... Yeah, for four and a half years. Essentially, yes.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
There is some interesting data about the kinetics of how we hold on to these oils, and it's not easy for us to get rid of them. So when you are eating French fries cooked in seed oils, which are even more oxidized because it's been a fryer oil that hasn't been changed for a week. You know, I've been to McDonald's, I've been to KFC, and I ask them, how often do you change the fryer oil?
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
both of them about once a week. You know, you go to In-N-Out, how often do you change the fryer oil? Once a week. Once a week, you're frying 16, 20 hours a day in this oil that's very susceptible to oxidation. And if you're getting French fries cooked in seed oils that have been fried in that for a week, you are getting massively increased levels of these lipid peroxides.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Not to even mention the fact that Increasing polyunsaturated fats in the human diet evolutionarily is inconsistent, and we store all of these. It creates this oxidative stress burden in our bodies. It's just like having a bunch of dry wood stored at your cabin in the mountains in the middle of a lightning storm. This isn't a good idea.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
If you have a lot of dry wood in your body, the dry wood being the oxidation-susceptible linoleic acid, and you have lots of sparks, you're gonna get lots of fires. And then you're gonna overwhelm your body's resources, and you can run into real problems. Now, people always say seed oils are inflammatory.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And the counterargument is there's no evidence that seed oils are inflammatory because there are some studies which show that seed oils maybe don't increase canonical inflammatory markers like CRP. But I would argue that oxidized LDL, LP little a and LPPLA2 are clearly inflammatory markers. So this is just semantics, I think.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Yes.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
There are so many markers of inflammation. And one of the things CRP does is bind to oxidized LDL, right? So CRP and oxidized LDL are intimately linked. And so to say that there's no inflammatory markers with seed oils is ludicrous. It's just closing your eyes and putting your hands in your ears and saying, la, la, la. I don't see any CRP.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Just because ESR doesn't go up, erythrocyte sedimentation rate with seed oils, there are so many markers of inflammation that increase when you fill the body with these oxidation-prone oils. And yet, the mainstream perspective, Harvard, Mayo, many... Apparently intelligent physicians in the community, longevity influencers are still holding fast to the claim that seed oils are benign for humans.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And so we just wanted it with Heart and Soil. I just wanted to make a documentary that got people talking about this.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
a higher level asking questions about why we still think these are healthy, how anyone can even say that, because when you look at the highest level of evidence, the randomized controlled trials with seed oils, and I have a whole thread on X that I did months ago about this, and I just resurfaced the tweet this morning.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
I broke down all 11 of the randomized controlled trials in humans with seed oils. Because that's the highest level of evidence, right? I went through it earlier in this podcast. We talked about evolutionarily inconsistent. We've never had seed oils in our diet. Mechanistic studies, very bad.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Historically, nuts, basically small amounts of nuts, but how many almonds can you eat? Almonds are a recent addition to the human diet. Sure, there are some hunter-gatherers that have mongongo nuts, the Khoisan, but most of us historically, throughout our evolution as humans, had very small amounts of polyunsaturated fats in our diets.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And if you look at hunter-gatherers or indigenous cultures, very small amounts, 1%, 2% of their calories from polyunsaturated fats. Versus 40%. Or 10% to 15% of our calories, and then it increases even from there for us. So average Americans today eat five tablespoons of some combination of seed oils. Five tablespoons. That's hundreds of calories.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And I think that people don't realize all the places that they're hidden. They're everywhere.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So when you have an expeller-pressed oil, now let's be honest. There's this very, very small fraction, probably less than a tenth of a percent of all seed oils are expeller-pressed. Right. You don't have the refining, the bleaching, and the deodorization.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So that's a less oxidized oil, but you still have a very fragile oil that has been stripped from the seed matrix and is going to be susceptible to oxidation. It's less oxidized, but I still think it's an evolutionarily –
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
inappropriate thing to consume as a human because you're still stuffing your cells with these oxidation prone seed oils and so if we get back to the randomized controlled trials of these 11 trials right the majority of them are flawed, fundamentally flawed because they were done from the 1950s to the 1980s. And we didn't really have a good sense of trans fat in that time.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Trans fat was really only banned from food in what the late 1980s or 1990s. So almost every single one of these trials has trans fats in the control group. And the control group in these randomized control trials is comparing saturated fat rich diets in the control group to polyunsaturated fat-rich diets.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
So what do you think happens in a randomized controlled trial if the control group eating saturated fat has significantly more trans fats than the experimental group eating polyunsaturated fats? That's a problem, right? And many of these trials are also multifactorial interventions. Things like...
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
Oh, in the control group, we're going to say eat your normal diet, which is perhaps animal fat rich, but you're probably also eating margarine with trans fats because we didn't tell you to stop doing that. And the experimental group, we're going to say eat more seed oils, but also exercise more, eat more vegetables and stop smoking.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
And these are the type of randomized controlled trials that form the, quote, bedrock of the fact checkers. When I get fact check on. Instagram or Meta, any Meta platform for saying that seed oils are harmful for humans.
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129. Paul Saladino, MD: Why 'Heart-Healthy' Seed Oils Are Actually Poison
They'll say, no, there's a randomized controlled trial here, or there's a meta analysis here, or here's an AFP fact check article where people have said seed oils are fine based on these foundationally, fundamentally flawed randomized controlled trials. And the randomized controlled trials that show seed oils to be harmful are suppressed.