Michael Franzese
Appearances
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
Thanks for having me, Dan. Good to be back.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
Yeah, there's no question, Dan. You know, I always say the golden years of the mafia, Cosa Nostra, especially in New York City, were really from the late 40s right through to the mid 80s when, you know, Giuliani and company really used the racketeering laws effectively. But up until that time. We had so much control, both politically and obviously with the unions.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
You know, and I've told people, Dan, if you control the unions, you basically control a good part of the country. Because even with politicians, what are two things that they want? They want votes and they want money. And through the unions, you can provide both. And that gave us a lot of leverage. And, you know, we had a lot of strength.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
Yeah, that's okay. I was with the Columbus. Yes.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
No, actually, it happened before that, Dan, because, you know, during my I hate to say career, but I guess that's the word, you know, my time in that life. I had 18 arrests. I had three undercover investigations on me. I had seven indictments, two federal racketeering cases, one brought on by Giuliani that unfortunately I was acquitted in.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
Well, he said he was going to give me 100 years if he convicted me. And then I had a state RICO in Florida. So I said to myself, how many times am I going to beat these people and walk away free? And I knew they were really tightening the noose, and I would never get away with it. I mean, I was too high profile at that point. They weren't going to leave me alone.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
And then, you know, with the RICO law, I said, man, you know, Dan, it was always – People ask, you know, what kept you guys in line? And if you remember the movie The Bronx Tale with Chaz Palmateri and he was the mob guy, they said to him, is it better to be loved or feared? And he said, well, in my line of work, it's better to be feared. And Chaz was a good friend.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
I spoke to him and I said, Chaz, did you really believe that? And he said, yeah, Michael, I believe that. I said, well, Chaz, you're wrong. He said, what do you mean? I said, well, yeah, fear did keep us in line because we knew if we violated the rules, we could pay for it, serious consequences.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
I said, but what happened with the RICO Act, the RICO statute, is the fear of the mob was transferred to the fear of the government. Because when you tell guys, hey, you're going to go away for the rest of your life unless you cooperate with us. And, you know, guys don't want to spend the rest of their life in prison. And they tell you, look, we'll put you in the program.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
We'll change your identity. The guy you testified against is going to go away forever, so don't worry about it. Well, that's what caused the collapse of my life. There's no question about it. It wasn't John Gotti. It wasn't my profile guys. It was the RICO law. But, you know, it required me doing eight years in prison.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
So, I mean, I didn't get away scot-free and I had a huge restitution and things like that. But in the end, it worked out.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
No, exactly, Dan. I right away said this was so sloppy. First of all, the last thing you want to do is hang around the scene. Be around there before, obviously not after. But, I mean, the guy was in Starbucks. He was buying things. I guess he doesn't realize, you know, in today's day and age, you got cameras everywhere. You got people looking at you. This was extremely sloppy from day one.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
Then, of course, you know, the words on the casings. I mean, when I saw that, I said, it's just a matter of time before this guy gets caught. He wasn't a professional. You know, people thought he was a hitman, but he certainly was not.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
Oh, absolutely, Danny. Remember, you're in a subway. You're stuck. You're in a box. You know, if somebody's going wild there, what are you going to do to get away with it? You know, I think it all goes down to this Alvin Bragg and all these political things that he does. He's not interested in keeping people safe. It's all politics with him. We saw what he did with Trump.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
And to even bring this case is unbelievable. When you had people saying that they were in fear of their life, you had a guy with, you know, multiple arrests, not acting right. And all he did was try to restrain him. You know, unfortunately, the result was we know what it was. But, you know, I think the toxology report showed that he had drugs in his system. There was so much going on.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
But, yeah, I mean, look, I would do it, Dan. You would do it. Anybody that, you know, has any kind of sense of manhood or whatever about him would have done the same thing. And what do you expect? I mean, these are dangerous places when you have somebody going wild and there's no escape. What do you do? You know, thank God he stepped up.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
Well, Dan, I don't know if you remember, but they mentioned me in Goodfellas. I was actually a character in there, and I knew Henry Hill really well. I knew Jimmy Burke really well. I knew Paulie very well. I mean, these were my friends. As a matter of fact, when I went to the theater and I saw the movie,
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
and they mentioned my name i i immediately got on the phone afterwards with nick palegi and i said hey nick why did you put me in that film that was a different family a different crew he said yeah but you have name value michael and you know all those guys henry was talking about you and so i put you in there i said okay the next time it was good fellas an accurate portrayal though of the the guys you knew jimmy jimmy burke and henry hill and others
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
Yeah, you know what? It was. It really was. I mean, it was very well done. And the story was pretty accurate, you know, with the whole Lufthansa robbery and all of that. But I will tell you this. Henry Hill never looked so good as he did in that movie. That's for sure. That was not really Henry in real life.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
Yes, he was. He was one of the wild guys. Wow. Absolutely. Pesci, you know, whatever Pesci does, he does terrifically, but he really nailed the character, no doubt.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
Yeah, no doubt about it. You know, between the technology and the RICO statute that puts you away forever, you know, unless you cooperate and making murder. Remember, murder was never a federal offense until the RICO statute came in and they used that as one of the predicate acts. That's when you can go down for murder. That was devastating for guys in that life.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
So, you know, the increase in informants because of the statute, all this new technology, I mean, it's very, very difficult to operate. You know, it's one of the reasons I made an exit. I saw it coming.
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
know the commission case look they never took down all the bosses like that took them all down you know got them 100 years that's it so you had to have your eyes wide open and see that this is this is over and if and if the uh you know law enforcement and the prosecutorial agencies in new york would just do their job properly you see a dramatic decrease in crime i believe but we'll see what happens
The Dan Bongino Show
Sunday Special with Michael Franzese, Jeff Van Drew, Ned Ryun, Andrew Gruel 12/22/24
Dan, no problem, but I got to give you one last tip. You want to know the greatest mob movie, the most accurate portrayal of any mob movie ever? It's the HBO 1996 Gotti movie with Armand Asante and Anthony Cameron.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
My dad was involved in 30, 35 murders. Now, he never admitted that to me, about anyone in particular. He was indicted for one murder, and he was acquitted in that case, found not guilty. But my dad was, he was a tough guy.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
That'll cause you to die. During my era, we weren't allowed to deal with drugs. You deal with drugs, you get caught, you die. You maybe do some other things, you're not honest with people, you disrespect somebody, you hit another made guy, you die. Now, we understand that. And they tell you, your best friend may be the one that pulls the trigger because the life comes before anything. That's it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
You don't violate the rules. That's how we maintain control in this life. That's how we existed for 100 years. And that's how it's going to stay. So now you're saying, OK, we all agreed to this. We all admitted it. If one of us decides to violate the policy of the law and we get caught, well, we understand the consequences. So that's how I looked at it. And that's how I justified it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
Now, does that say you can go out and start to do random killings? No. If the boss tells you to go kill somebody because he doesn't like them and you do it, that's not right. But if we kill our own, and you know, you hear a lot of times, well, we only kill our own. Well, we don't only kill our own.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
But if we only kill our own, knowing that we made that choice, well then, okay, I kind of get it in a way. Even though murder is murder and it's a crime and it's sinful and I understand that. But that's how you justify it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
Well, for some of us it was and for others it was not. And I've seen both sides of that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
It's just not a subject I care to get into. Listen, I like to be as honest as I possibly can because I am a Christian and you don't want to lie to people, but it's not something I want to talk about.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
Well, you know, Steve, look, there's a lot of guys on the street now. And if you go on YouTube, you'll see a number of them. And they've admitted to murders that they were involved in. These are made guys. And they've admitted to it. And many of them had struck a deal with the government. They had immunity for the crimes they committed, even murder.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
I mean, the government give you immunity for murder if they want you to cooperate and help them out. It's amazing, but they'll do it. And so they have immunity. They could talk about their crimes. I didn't cooperate to that level at all. I don't have immunity for anything that I've done in the past.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
And listen, our laws here in the United States, if you were standing next to somebody when they murdered somebody else, you could be charged for murder the same way to them. So I'm not saying I was in that position. I'm just saying that's the law. So why talk about it? Number one. And number two, murder is ugly. You know, it's ugly. And you don't ever want to talk about it. I mean, I don't.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
If I were to do something like that, I wouldn't be proud of it. I'm not trying to throw my chest out and say, hey, look what I could do. Guys go to war. They kill people all the time, you know, in defense of our country or defensive. So, I mean, it's not like, oh, God, you know, nobody. I mean, murder happens every single day. Who wants to talk about it?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
Well, you know, Steve, let me, I know there's going to be a tough one, but let me tell you how I think. The right and just side of me, the legally just side of me says that the government is never allowed to break the law, to uphold the law. Because if you allow that to happen, then it falls into monarchy and people are not protected.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
Oh, yeah. Well... When you come in today, here's what happened. I leave there. A captain and a family picked me up and took me to see the boss. Now, unfortunately, Joe Colombo was assassinated. He was shot, seriously wounded. He lingered for about seven years, and then he died as a result of these wounds. So a new boss took over, and he's passed away now. And I sat with him.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
This was about two weeks after my father sent word downtown that he was proposing me to be part of that life. You can't just go up to somebody and say, I'd like to join. Somebody has to propose you, vouch for you, say you have what it takes. There's a lot of nepotism in that life. A lot of fathers brought their sons in, their nephews, whatever. So in my case, it was my dad that proposed me.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
And so I sat with the boss, and he said to me, here's the deal. You want to become a member of our life. Your father sent the message. Is that true? And I said, yes. He said, well, here's the deal. From now on, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, you're on call to serve this family, the Colombo family. That means if your mother is sick and she's dying, You're at her bedside.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
We call you to service. You leave your mother. You come and serve us. From now on, we're number one in your life before anything and everything. When and if we feel you've deserved this privilege, this honor to become a member, we'll let you know. That's it. And do you accept that? And I said, yes, I do.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
And so for the next two and a half years, I was in like a recruit pledge period where I had to do anything and everything I was told to do, prove myself worthy. It could have been something very menial, a lot of discipline in that life, a lot of authority, a lot of alleged respect. You had a meeting at 8 o'clock. You weren't there at 7.30. You were late. You can never be late in that life.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
I don't care what the situation is. You had a meeting at 8 o'clock. If there was traffic and you were concerned, come the night before and sleep in the car. You can never be late. No excuses. You know, drive the boss to a meeting, sit in the car three, four, five hours. God forbid you leave. You go to the restroom, get a newspaper. He comes out. You're not there. Oh, my gosh.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
We could have had trouble. You were the getaway driver. You weren't there. I know I did that once and I paid the price, you know, for it. That's very serious stuff. You paid the price. Well, paid the price. In other words, I got a real good tongue lashing. I'll tell you, you know. You know, just stuff like that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
They kind of put you on the shelf for two weeks, you know, to make you understand the seriousness of what you did. So you never do it again. You never repeat your mistakes in that life. If you're smart, you want to, if you want to, number one, want to survive, and number two, you want to move up. You never repeat your mistakes. So, you know, things like that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
And then look, I'm going to be honest with you, you know, as honest as I possibly can. It's a violent life at times. If you're part of the life in some shape or form, you're part of the violence. And if anybody tells you differently, they're either not being honest or they weren't a made member of that life. And that's just how it goes.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
Let's put it this way. They got to have enough faith in you that you can be capable of doing whatever it is they tell you to do. They have to understand that and feel that because if they don't feel that, you're not going anywhere. That's it. So during that time, you're going to be tested. And you were tested?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
Back then, I mean, I might have. I mean, you know, I was a play-by-the-rule guy. You know, I was very fortunate in that I had a great teacher in my dad. He was a student and master of the life. And I was like a sponge. I absorbed whatever my dad told me. I listened. And, you know, some of the things that he told me were right. So I might have at the time. I'm going to be honest with you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
Because if they do it against sunny frenzies, they can do it against anybody. So I believe strictly the government has enough tools and weapons to get people the right way. And they do 96, 97 percent of the time. They shouldn't be allowed to violate the law to go after a criminal. That's my feeling on it. Now, another thing is this.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
I mean, I don't know. It would have to depend on what's happening at that moment. But, you know, I was so indoctrinated into that life at some point. It's who I was. Sounds a bit like a cult. In a way. It's cult-like, I guess, you know, in a way. I mean, we didn't do silly things, you know. We wouldn't have rituals and ceremonies other than that one.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
Yeah, it taught me well. I think I got it. You know, there's kind of two levels in that life. You're either a racketeer, or you're a gangster. What's the difference? I'll tell you the difference. A gangster is a guy that really doesn't know how to use that life to benefit him in business.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
So he's more of a, I don't want to say tough guy, I don't want to say the term, but he's more of a guy that, hey, we had something done, this is the guy. Send him out, let him do it. Because you've got to earn your keep in that life. We in the Colombo family had 115 maid guys at that time.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
Out of the 115, 20 of us were really earning money and supporting the family in some way and really elevating the family. We were racketeers. Now, a gangster could never really be a racketeer. He just doesn't know how. But a racketeer has to be a gangster also because you're going to be called upon. Not as much as this guy. But when you're called upon, you got to do it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
So, you know, I was more of a racketeer. And as a result of that, I was constantly in business disputes and sitting down with other guys. And you have to learn, you know, how to negotiate. I mean, I learned the art of negotiation at these sit-downs. You know, learned how to try to, you know, really before I walk into a meeting with somebody, number one, try to know the personality of that person.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
Know if there's a fallback position, if I'm not winning, what I'll accept. And so I had to prepare myself for these meetings because unprepared, you know, they'll chew you up because a lot of these old timers were very skillful. And believe me, you could be 100% right and end up wrong, and they'll put you in a trap. So you really had to know what you were doing.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
And so my people skills in that regard, as far as negotiating and identifying a true leader, were really honed to a high degree because I came out on top many, many times.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Shared Clip: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...
People think when we take an oath, the oath of omerta, it's an oath to stay silent. It's not an oath to lie, steal, cheat, and kill. Does that happen as part of that light? Yes. But we're told straight out. Now, try to understand the thinking here. You come into that life, you're told straight out. We have rules. You don't ever violate another man's wife, daughter, sister, girl, never.