Michael Chernus
Appearances
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
I mean, I certainly think so. I think it was very different. And that's when there is loss, when there is a great loss like that, like a family member, there's the immediate impact, but then there are all those ripple effects, right?
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
And I mean, when someone starts to have success, and we can talk about exactly how successful or not Rickon is, but when in their own mind, they start to become famous or whatever, What that does to – if in my opinion, I feel like you're not reading my books and you're not taking my art seriously and like the pain that that causes for me.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
And I'm sure we can all speak to like when you start to have more notoriety, what that does to – Relationships. Relationships, yeah.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
It's such a tough thing. You know, I don't think he's a great writer. I think he's a genre writer. He's in this, within the realm of sort of a philosophical self-help book, he's good at doing that genre. And I think there is a lot of truth to some of his little sayings, but it certainly is not a rigorous craft for him. I feel like the writing, it can be a little stream of consciousness sometimes.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
It is certainly true to who he is, which is a compliment, like you're getting the full Rickon. But yeah, I think it's why on some level it appeals to the innies is there is, if you're this sort of pure, unjaded, uncynical, kind of almost childlike mind, he's saying these things that have a nugget of...
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
truth in them, but it's just all the trappings of the sort of pretension and the self-importance that go around it.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
I mean, I love him so much. And I know Dan does too. I just, for better or for worse, I feel like I get him. And I really, I really care about him. But I think at the same time, I can also honestly make fun of him. I mean, he's ridiculous.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Yeah. Balfe is a disappointment. I thought he was like raw clay that I could mold, and he's more just, the clay is dried. Too much of his own guy. Well, yeah, I just have to explain everything.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Yeah, he's Balfe 12.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Yeah, they're all just Balfe, yeah.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Okay. I see how you'd feel that way, but one point that Nat made was... Nat, okay. She said that innies tend to thrive in an environment of structure. And once that is established, then they are more open to self-expansion. So I am just trying to speak their language. I know, but this sounds like Lumen's language. Well, it's a Trojan's horse.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
If I can get my ideas to severed workers all across the world, it might... to beget a revolution.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
It's completely a moral decision. And I think it's such a great piece of writing to introduce this idea because it helps the audience really enter into that conundrum of Rickon, like this ego side of being like, oh, that's enticing. That would get my work out to so many more people if I'm a big deal in there. And those workies really... are fans. Well, that's great.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
You know, being enticed by the fan base, but also this other part of him that knows that maybe this is a problematic decision that wrestling with himself, I think is really interesting.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Yeah. I mean, I can relate to that as a working actor. You know, you have to make these decisions. I mean, not necessarily working for Lumen, but sometimes you're like, I have to take this money gig. I have to take this job. You know, it's like I got offered this, you know, 24 episode police procedural or something, you know, and I have to go do it, honey.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Oh, but it's not Shakespeare in the park. Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
And I, you know, I don't know to what extent Rick and really understands how big of a star he is in the, any world, but this idea that he has this fan base, you know, like what that does for him. Um, not just an opportunity to make money or to expand his reach, but just that there are finally people who really get him.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
I knew it. I knew it.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Jen is the best. I mean, I loved y'all's episode with her. She's extraordinary. She really is a singular talent. You guys were talking on the podcast about how everything that comes out of her mouth just feels so real and I couldn't agree more. She's so smart. She's very funny. And yet everything comes off so grounded and so true to her. And yet it's a character. It's such a funny blend.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Like Devin feels like Jen, but also feels like Devin, if that makes sense in the best way.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
That's a great question. We didn't know each other beforehand. And if we remember, the first season was in the height of COVID times. So I think we met in the testing tent the first time, like in hazmat suits, basically, you know, getting our COVID test to work. And through our face shields, we're trying to discuss Rick and Devin's history. That was hard, man.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
That was hard, but I know it's been said before, but it really, I think, added to that dystopian feel of the show. I mean, for me, showing up and we couldn't hug each other and we could only take our masks off when the cameras were rolling and the poor crew was just covered head to toe in strange futuristic gear. For me, it added to the strange severancy vibe of the show. Yeah.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Yeah. I mean, I didn't know you, Adam, and I didn't know Jen. And how do you create relationships when they don't exist? It's a tough one. I think there's a lot of yes to ending that just happens. I mean, if you are an actor and an improviser, there's just kind of going with the vibe that's happening and not kind of saying no to things, but just giving over to what Adam and Jen were doing. And
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
And then I would also credit you, Ben, and Aoife a lot that first season of just allowing a lot of different takes of choices. I mean, I remember, Ben, you would early on just be like, try one this way. Now try one that way. Now try this. And just trusting that you guys were going to also edit some of that together because we didn't know the tone yet. I think we all had a guess.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
But especially with the Audi stuff, especially with Rickon and Devin, what is this world? How does this... book party fit in with the rest of the vibe. Like I remember you Ben coming up with the bell ringing app line. It's still one of my favorite moments.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Bell ringing out.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
voice is worn out.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Yeah.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Yeah, he doesn't get raspy, he goes higher. Oh yeah, it's so ridiculous.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
All creatures from the leaping cat to the cowering shrew think of themselves as you, a logical center for the universe. Yet the cat eats the shrew and we, like Schrodinger, live on to wonder what it means. But even that, I feel like we could all crack each other up all day long, right? But the quest was how do we make this funny but be in severance still? Yes, for sure.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
I don't know if anyone had shot a frame. I think it was the camera test. And I came in and yeah, I didn't know really who Rickon was. And we tried a bunch of different like hairdos. And I remember Ben being like, could he look like Leaf Garrett?
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
There's an audio book read by Rick and Hale.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Yeah. Yeah. Balfe 13 was there actually rubbing my feet and my feet cramp when I read. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That was really fun and really hard. Really? Yeah. I mean, joking aside, my voice was like a mess after those. I needed a Balfe. It's so funny. Yeah.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
It's so good. Dan is just so smart. And as we know, is just so invested in this world that literally every corner has been thought about. There are passages in what he wrote that just blew me away. And I was reading a lot of it for the first time in the recording studio and just laughing out loud. I mean, it's so good. And there's some passages that are really actually affecting too.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
So fun. Thanks, man. Thanks, guys.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Oh, my God. I thought it was really good. You guys sound very professional. Oh, my God. Thank you so much. What a relief.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Me too.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Well, I am, but that's about other stuff, not about the intro. All right. No, I thought that sounded great. Congrats on this podcast. It's been so fun to follow along and listen at home. Oh, thanks, man.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
I think he thinks he should have his own podcast for sure. I don't know that he should. Don't give that man a microphone.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
I think he had one, but now he's post-podcast. That's right. He's transcended. Yeah, he's transcended podcast.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
That's so nice to hear. I mean, first of all, it's an honor to be a part of this show. I mean, and that's not any kind of hyperbolic praise. Like I think this show is incredible and I'm a fan of it first and foremost. And when you're speaking about Rickon being this
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
window into the Audi world I think what's so cool is I think he's a representation of one subsect of the population you know like he's he is our way into like this sort of maybe more like erudite kind of group of people but you know I'm interested to see in other seasons how even more of that world gets fleshed out because I think Rickon and his literati friends are just one section of our universe and I'm interested to see who the like
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Oh, completely. And I feel like it's, it's a balance that we're always trying to calibrate every time that I'm on set. I mean, I think it's something Ben and I talked about a lot when I first came onto the show and, um, Yeah. I think it's a bit tricky because he is sort of this larger than life character.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
And I think even within a tone that is very grounded, you have to allow for those... I certainly know people... My background is in the theater originally in New York City. And I know people who are very sort of big and almost foppish or clownish in their life and have a love and a facility for language and often sound a little affected and
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
you know, I think in a great way, one thing he does is he maybe helps open up that Audi world. Like you believe that he exists in that world, but he isn't like everybody else. And he marches to the beat of his own drum. And that's, that's cool. We all have people in our lives who are a little odd or a little eccentric or a little annoying sometimes, but we love them. And, um,
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Yeah, I think one of the things that's hard for me with him is, you know, fighting the actor's impulse to want to be liked. And I think that's an impulse that Rickon has too. But, you know, knowing that there are some people out there are going to be like, ugh, Rickon and his friends are so annoying.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
And having to remember like, well, maybe that's a good thing that people are kind of put off by him at first. And then eventually the onion starts to get peeled back and you start to like – discover, oh, there's more to him than that. Or he has sensitivity, he has vulnerability.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
And so continuing to discover those ways in for the audience to see a different side of him is really what's been a fun challenge.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Well, right back at you. I mean, I remember that night that we shot it. It was such a dance between us because we're holding so much. You had so much going on of like any Mark meeting his idol, but all the other circumstances of the larger scene in that moment and trying to keep it together. Yeah.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
not be found out and so you had all that going on and then I had all the stuff that Rickon's going through going on and so I think I love that scene so much and it's such a simple scene but there's so much packed into it I think that speaks to the tone of this show so precisely of
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Trusting the audience to the audience is smart and that they're going to be watching and listening and knowing all that nuance that we don't have to play everything at once. Right. You know, there may be all of this stuff happening, but you as an actor can't do all those things. You just have to be there and sort of listen and play the scene with your partner. Yeah.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
That's a gift of the character, yeah, is that those two things match. I mean, I think for me, one of the things is I've been in this business for a minute now is just a constant meditation on trying to let go of what the audience is going to think. There are millions of people who will see it. There'll be various responses to Rickon. And so I can't control that. But what I can control is that
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
I'm giving it as much dimensionality to him as possible, that I'm not considering him a joke, even if somebody else does.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
We see- He's a generous, attentive lover.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
They are an interesting couple. But that is one thing that surprises me when I see people on Reddit or whatever say like, why are they together? I'm like, have you seen couples ever in the world? Opposites attract. Yeah, totally. There's so many people in my life that I'm like, how are they together? And it's like, well, you don't know what happens behind closed doors.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
And I don't even mean that in terms of romantically. It's a mystery why people fall in love with each other. It's one of the great mysteries of the human race. Why are you drawn to someone?
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Me too. And I think, you know, he, he brings a lot of different things to the table that she doesn't possess and vice versa. You know, I think she grounds him and, and he helps her like discover the, the more artistic spontaneous improvisational side. And, um, It's also that we might be just meeting them in a hard moment. That's right.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott
S2E5: Trojan's Horse (with Michael Chernus)
Long-term relationships, there are ups and downs, there are rifts, there are separations. In any given day, there are a thousand different coming togethers and retreatings that happen, and we just see small windows into their life together.