Matthew Goodwin
Appearances
The Dan Bongino Show
The Explosive White House Meeting That Changed Everything (Ep. 2434)
A lot of people who like to start wars are suddenly very angry with one guy who wants to stop this war. And there are people who have taken us into one disaster after another, war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, who have spent much of today on social media attacking Trump. What we're seeing, I think, is a reset of geopolitics, a reset.
The Dan Bongino Show
The Explosive White House Meeting That Changed Everything (Ep. 2434)
We're seeing the breakdown of what you might call the international liberal world order, which saw 20, 30 years of one foreign policy disaster after another. And Trump, you know, I was at the inauguration in America and people around the president are basically saying they've had enough of that. constant interventionism.
The Dan Bongino Show
The Explosive White House Meeting That Changed Everything (Ep. 2434)
They've had enough of Europe, by the way, again, maybe a controversial point, but Europe not paying its way on defence. And they've looked to Germany, they've looked to France, they've looked to Italy, they've looked to the UK, and they've said, you know, what are you guys doing? You know, take Germany as an example.
The Dan Bongino Show
The Explosive White House Meeting That Changed Everything (Ep. 2434)
Germany under the Greens, absolutely bonkers, becoming more dependent upon Russia because of its ridiculous energy policy, becoming more dependent upon China and then turning around and criticizing Donald Trump when he says we've got to end this war. I mean, I'm sorry, it doesn't make sense anymore.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
What we've been living through is an elite class imposing policies on everybody else, the consequences of which they are not going to have to endure.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Look, I think they're gone. I really think they're gone. And I've had this debate with many friends and colleagues of mine, much more successful academics than me. I mean, people I really respect, historian Neil Ferguson, among others. And the way they talk about academia in the 80s and 90s, is something I don't personally recognize from my experience.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I think the universities, the legacy universities, Jordan, are gone. Donors constantly say to me, well, I'm going to buy or invest in an Oxford College and I'm going to reform it. Well, you and I both know, you and I both know it's disillusioned
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
academics, that the moment that collides with the reality of the ecosystem of higher education, the ethics committees, the research councils, the bureaucracy, you and I both know what will happen. Any attempt to reform the legacy universities will get tied up immediately in paperwork and ideological motivations. That's what's going to happen.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Well, absolutely. But there are also ideological scams. And that's when I became very disillusioned. I watched the grievance studies hoax play out whereby, you know, clearly fraudulent papers were submitted to social justice journals and then revealed to have been authored by, you know, Peter Boghossian himself. Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsay.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I watched the Michael Lequeur scandal whereby a researcher had claimed that a randomized controlled trial involving gay canvassers talking to voters face to face made them more supportive of same-sex marriage. It turned out he had fabricated his data, but that was accepted without question by the most prestigious journals in academia. I saw the Roland Frye scandal at Harvard.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
The nightmare that he had to go through to publish a finding that challenged the orthodoxy on campus. In that case, that African-Americans were not more likely to be killed by police. And I was just watching one scandal after another and just realizing, you know, the whole thing is rotten. You know, the industry, the sector that I'm working in, it needs root and branch reform. So I left.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And I think in many ways for me, the universities, at least in the UK, are really a symbol of a much deeper rot that has set in into our culture and into our civilization. The institutions, the public sector, taxpayer-funded institutions have become politicized. They've become deeply corrupt. They've become utterly disconnected from the vast majority of ordinary people in this country.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And they have been imposing policies top-down, a political agenda on everybody else that is really supported by only about 10% to 15% of radical progressives within Western populations. And that is what I've seen, not just in universities, but within government departments, within Westminster, within the civil service, within the federal state bureaucracy. And I think people are sick of it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I think they can see this for what it is, which is political indoctrination.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Yeah, go ahead. Well, look, I think it's just important for people who are not in the UK but have been asking us Brits the same question, you know, what the hell is happening to the UK, right? That's a question I get from many Americans, Canadians and others.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And the answer is that we are living through the effects of a political project that was embraced by both the established left and right, by the Uniparty, that was really united by a set of policies that voters are now beginning to reject. Net zero.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
mass uncontrolled immigration, much of it from outside of Europe, the imposition of radical woke progressivism within public sector institutions, doubling down on a London-based economy. We don't really produce anything anymore. We're closing factories across northern England. We're closing steel factories in the name of
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
net zero and climate change, and a broken model of multiculturalism that most recently found its expression in the rape gang scandal across more than 50 towns in the country. Now, many voters over the last 30 years have gradually looked at this elite consensus shared by the established left and right. And they said, you know, we've had enough. We want a different politics.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
We want a different kind of culture. And that is why I actually think you're beginning to see now what America saw in 2015, 2016. We're beginning to see radical political change in this country. As I'm talking to you now in early, mid-February 2025, in the national polls, Nigel Farage and the Reform Party are now number one.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Labour and the Conservatives are now trailing this disruptive party, similar to the Canadian Reform Party in the early 1990s. We're beginning to see a serious pushback from voters who have had enough of this.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And in Europe too, Jordan, you will know, in Germany, Austria, Sweden, we are, I think, beginning to see a sustained public-led pushback to the policies that have dominated Western democracies for the last 30 to 50 years.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Mass uncontrolled immigration has fundamentally weakened Great Britain. Boris Johnson did the opposite of what he promised voters he would do.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Well, you're answering your own questions in a way, Jordan, because the answer is they're not conservatives. What has happened to the Conservative Party, one of the oldest, most successful parties in the history of democracy? is that it has completely abandoned its ideological roots. It's become a liberal party.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
The vast majority of MPs in Parliament, Conservative MPs, are essentially liberal MPs. They are the ones that put mass immigration on steroids. They are the ones that put net zero on steroids. They are the ones that put gender ideology on steroids. And Kemi Badenoch is claiming that. that the party has learned its lessons, that she's going to change direction.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
But in reality, because of the structure of the Conservative Parliamentary Party, because it is dominated from top to bottom by liberals, even if Kemi Badenock believes in what she's saying, she knows deep down she will not be able to fundamentally change the direction of travel. So what I think we need...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
is a bit like what America has witnessed over the last 10 years, which is a complete replacement of not just the Tory party, but the dominant establishment in this country, which is clinging to a consensus that is fundamentally out of touch with what voters want.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I mean, mass immigration, I'll give you one example, Jordan, we can come back and talk a little bit about net zero, but to me, mass uncontrolled immigration has fundamentally weakened Britain, Great Britain. It has undermined our prosperity. It has divided our society. Nobody ever voted for it. Boris Johnson did the opposite of what he promised voters he would do when he was elected in 2019.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
He said he'd lower immigration. He put it on steroids. 86% of all migration into Britain is now coming from outside Europe. from what I would argue are culturally incompatible nations. They're more impoverished nations. And the evidence that we now have from various government bodies that are now finally admitting that actually this is a net fiscal cost to the UK taxpayer.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Before you get to things like the rape gangs, before you get to things like Islamist terrorism, before you get to things like sectarianism on the streets of Britain that we've seen since the 7th of October, just at an economic level, this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Yet it was imposed on everybody by both the established left and the established right.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
So my theory of British politics here is that the voter backlash to mass immigration is going to be the new Brexit. This is going to be a major fault line in our politics. And the Tories...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
the status conscious Tories, and you're right, Jordan, because they are more interested in winning social status from London liberals, from the luxury belief class, from what Rob Henderson and others have talked about. They are more interested in accruing social status from the London bubble than they are at saving this country. And that is a reality about the Tory party.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
They've completely sold this country down the river. In fact, one minor example that I think will give international viewers a real sense of what I would argue is a betrayal. It was the Conservative Party under Boris Johnson when it was in office that even removed a requirement for companies in Britain to advertise jobs in Britain before they advertise them overseas.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
They didn't even prioritize British workers within this national economy. They just completely opened the floodgates. And the end result is what you see around us today, which is zero growth,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Massive amounts of debt, no productivity, declining GDP per capita, while we're also pursuing this net zero madness, closing steel factories across northern England, in order to deal with this political vanity project for an elite class that doesn't apparently seem to care about anybody else in this country. So I'm deeply worried about the direction of travel.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
But the Tory party is not going to change anything. the direction of travel. If an architect demolished your house, you wouldn't invite the architect back to do it again, would you? And I think in the same way, it was the Tories that really demolished Britain. So why on earth would you invite them back to have another go? I think we need wholesale political change.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Yeah, sure. Well, I'm a recovering academic. I was a professor of political science since 2015. I was a university academic for 20 years. And over the last year, I've basically moved more into the public debate into political campaigning, having left the universities. But in terms of my background, I've also worked, I've been seconded to government departments.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Well, I think the answer to the first question is I would describe myself as, I mean, it sounds very vague, but as somebody who simply cares a great deal about his country and somebody who is, in very broad terms, on the side of the forgotten majority of people who share small c conservative values, particularly on cultural and identity issues, who want to reform the economy so it works for ordinary people, but feel that they're no longer really in the conversation.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And I... I don't feel as though my politics have changed over the last 20 years. What I think has happened is that we have been living through, over the last 10 years, the greatest radicalization of the elite class in Western societies since the 1960s. And I've seen this, not just in terms of the universities, but actually in Westminster.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And I think the answer to your second question is to go back again to this idea of the luxury belief class. What we've been living through is an elite class imposing policies on everybody else, the consequences of which they are not going to have to endure. And I think you can see that in everything from mass migration, which across Europe the evidence now is overwhelming –
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
serious academics, people like Professor Jan van de Beek, have shown this. The influx of low-skill, low-wage migration from the Middle East and Africa is a net fiscal cost to European economies, right? If you looked at it simply through the lens of a cost-benefit analysis, you would simply say, this makes no sense. We've got to radically change the way we're dealing with migration.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Yet still, the elite class won't change it. So obviously, this is about the accruing social status for themselves.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
But there's something else going on here too, which is the enforcement of these taboos within our conversation around migration, around, you know, what John McWhorter and others would call the new religion, the sacred values that we cannot question, pro net zero, pro migration, pro diversity in all of its forms.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And that's exactly why, for example, Jordan, we didn't get to the bottom of the rape gangs crisis because it was people's fears within the elite institutions of being seen to be racist, being seen to be conservative, being seen to be Islamophobic or whatever word you want to, whatever term you want to choose, which stopped people from getting to the truth.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
So the imposition of these taboos, the imposition of these social norms of trying to tightly control racism the national conversation through hate laws, through these Orwellian things we have in the UK called non-crime hate incidents, which again are sort of police measures that are designed to stifle debate and discussion. All of this, I think, is about
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
controlling the supply of information, stigmatizing alternative opposition to the elite project, and trying to use these taboos to basically impose this elite project from above. And the losers, of course, are ordinary people who are asking themselves questions like, well, why are tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of young white working class girls being raped
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
in Great Britain and nobody talked about it for 30 years? Like, that's a question a lot of people in this country are asking. Why didn't the legacy media? do anything about this.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And by the way, a legacy media in this country that is now complaining about Elon Musk talking about it, whereas the reality is if legacy media had been doing its job by actually pursuing truth and taking the rumors seriously from the 1980s,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
about girls being put on heroin and cocaine and alcohol and being gang raped in northern towns across this country and being trafficked from one town to the next. If journalists had taken that seriously, we wouldn't have had, according to one MP, she estimates perhaps up to a million children from the 1980s have been abused to some extent by these gangs. And the enforcement of these taboos
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I've advised various prime ministers and presidents here in Europe about political issues. But now, to be frank, I've become so concerned about the state of my country that I've entered the public debate in a much more political way.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
It's going on today, which is what makes it so remarkable. Even after the rape gang scandal, we've got a Labour Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, who's now come out and said, well, if you want to discuss the rape gangs, if you want to ask questions about the rape gangs, I'm not going to give you a national inquiry.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
into this issue, but also, and I quote directly, you are jumping on the far right bandwagon if you're talking about this issue. So again, it's an attempt to control the conversation, to suppress dissent, to suppress opposition. And ultimately, I think it is partly about individual social status, but it is also about maintaining and protecting this ideological project.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I think fundamentally, that's what it's about.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Well, I think over the last 50 years... My view is that the nature of status fundamentally changed. It moved away from wealth and resource into the realm of ideology and belief. And that became a key indicator for the elite class to accrue status, to say, actually, it's not just that I've got a butler, I've got a house, I've got wealth, I've got money.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
It's that, you know, I know the vocabulary of radical progressivism. I know what white privilege means. And I, you know... I know what white guilt means, and I'm going to latch onto this sacred religion and ensure other people have to hear the word and do the work. I think that's part of it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I was at the University of Kent, having previously gone through the universities of Bath, Nottingham and Manchester here in the UK.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Go ahead. Just something on that. I think something else happened too, though. And ultimately, it depends on whether you view the radical progressive takeover, which I personally think has peaked. I think it's now in retreat. I think Trump has got... the woke ideology, whatever your favorite term, I think it's on the back foot. But if you ask yourself, well, why did it emerge?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I think there are those who say it is a kind of radicalization of cultural Marxism and so on. But there are those, Eric Kaufman among others, who I'm persuaded by, who say, no, actually, this is a radicalization of liberalism. This isn't cultural Marxism. This is the inevitable extension of liberalism, which became so consumed
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
with minority rights and emotional harm, that particularly within universities, emotional safetyism, protecting minorities, racial, sexual, and gender minorities from harm, from perceived emotional harm, was basically prioritized over the pursuit of truth, objective science, objective knowledge, and that just filtered through everything.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And the moment the North Star became this notion of harm, of protecting people from harm, Everything trickled down from that. Now, that's what I saw in universities. It's what I see in left and right in politics, this endless obsession with DEI, this endless obsession with anti-racism training, this endless obsession with apologizing for what happened 500 years ago.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
It is, I think, fundamentally this sacralization of minorities that is lying at the heart of this ideological revolution.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I think essentially what I saw over the last 20 years was higher education in this country, much like in North America, completely lose its way. It increasingly lost touch with the original mission of higher education. The universities I was working at were no longer really interested in the pursuit of truth.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I was gonna say that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Actually, there are a couple of papers on that, Jordan. I'm sure you've seen, I think, Corey Clark. I've read a couple, I think, showing basically the feminization of higher education over the last 50 years. But there's something else, listening to you, that... that just came into my mind. I don't know if you've read it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
There's a book by a psychologist called Luke Conway that came out, I think, a year ago called Liberal Bullies. And what he has done, which is fascinating, is he's gone back and looked at all the old stuff on right-wing authoritarianism and the scales that they used comparing right-wing authoritarians with left-wing authoritarians. And of course, the old argument, this is going back
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
50 years of social science was that you don't get left-wing authoritarians, you only get right-wing authoritarians.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And the whole literature, right, has just been debunked because what Conway is saying, well, if you actually, if you change the scales, because they were measuring right-wing authoritarianism differently from left-wing authoritarianism, if you use the same scales on both, what you find is that so-called liberals are actually more prone to authoritarian impulses and tendencies than conservatives.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And if anything explains the last 15 years in Western politics, the kind of Great Awakening, you know, all of the fanaticism dogmatism that we saw around Black Lives Matter and the social justice movement. It's this take. I read his book and I was like, there it is. So basically, social scientists were misleading everybody. I would say maybe they knew about it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Maybe they were just lying to people. And here we have evidence that if you identify as highly liberal, you are more prone to authoritarian impulses than conservatives.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
in good faith debate, in scientific knowledge and evidence, especially in the social sciences. I know that you've spoken on this show to my good friend, Eric Kaufman, who has experienced the same here in the UK. And to be frank, Jordan, I just got sick of it. And I decided, you know, life is short. I wanted to try and do something about what's happening in not just the UK, but in the West today.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Everyone around the world has heard of George Floyd. Nobody's heard those names. These are girls who were murdered when they were 12, 13, 14 years of age. Not a single police officer, social worker, council official, member of parliament has had any serious consequences for turning a blind eye to this.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
the West is pretty consistent in showing that female scholars, especially young female PhD students, are consistently the most likely to endorse a range of cancel culture measures. They're the most likely, for example, to say that we should sacrifice academic freedom and free speech on the altar of protecting minorities from harm. So I think that's a big part of the story.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I mean, again, it's controversial. And the fact that we would struggle to have this debate, at an Oxford, you know, union debate or on Cambridge campus is itself a reflection of the problems within universities. I think it's an enormous part. And in politics too, by the way, I think if you look at the people who have been most dogmatic when it comes to the debates over migration, net zero,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
who have refused to look at the issue of the rape gangs, have refused to give the country a national inquiry routinely. I mean, routinely, it's been prominent women in national political life. And I think there's also, by the way, been a lot of hypocrisy there, too.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I mean, if you just take the case of the rape gangs, you know, the whole Me Too scandal, you know, middle class, liberal, middle class, liberal, professional women who didn't say anything at all. about young white working class girls being raped, harassed, and abused by Muslim gangs. And, you know, there's just, I think people aren't stupid.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
They can see a lot of this stuff that's playing out before them.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And my university ran into financial problems. And I decided this was a great moment to exit and try and have an impact on the wider conversation. And that's what I'm doing, and that's why I'm with you here today.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Yeah, so the first thing I would say is that this will go down in history, I think, as the biggest scandal in British society, one that much of the establishment deliberately ignored and downplayed for half a century. What we are talking about, to be clear, is the sexual exploitation of mainly young, white, working-class girls, often from very damaged, broken homes, vulnerable girls,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
the organized industrial scale rape and sexual assault of those girls by predominantly Pakistani Muslim gangs of men operating in alliance with one another, trafficking those girls from one town to another, often having some kind of connections with police, social services. We have police officers who have been
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
arrested and being brought before court because of their involvement with these rape gangs. And the rumors of this really began, Jordan, from the 1970s, 1980s, but it wasn't really until 2011, when one or two rogue journalists started to talk about the issue, and some prominent political activists and campaigners too. But this was instantly branded a topic of far-right politics.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
It was seen as low status to talk about it in Westminster. And then as the transcripts came out of these girls,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
As the number of towns increased, as I say, upwards of 50 towns and cities across the UK, lots of young girls coming before court saying they were put on heroin, they were put on cocaine, they were told they were targeted because they were white, they were non-Muslim, and they were trash. They were white prostitutes. Those are words that were used in the court transcripts.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And as the evidence simply became unavoidable, we then started to get these local inquiries into key towns like Rotherham, a town where 1,400 girls at least were raped and sexually assaulted by these gangs, towns like Oldham and Telford. And it wasn't really until actually the beginning of 2025 –
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
that the release and the recirculation of some of those transcripts, in conjunction with Elon Musk drawing attention to it, basically forced Westminster, forced the elite in Britain to actually do something and talk about this crisis in a much bigger way. But even then,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
They said, actually, we're not going to have a national inquiry into this issue, which is outrageous because this is clearly a systemic national crisis that involves social workers, police officers, Muslim communities, gangs of men. It's been going on for 30, 40 years. Some of these girls, by the way, have been murdered.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I just want to mention a few names, Lucy Lowe, Victoria Goglia, Charlene Downs. Everyone around the world has heard of George Floyd. Nobody's heard those names. These are girls who were murdered when they were 12, 13, 14 years of age. Like you, I'm a father. I find this absolutely despicable. And even when, in some of these cases, even when fathers in desperation were
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
were trying to get their daughters back, were trying to save their daughters from these gangs. They were then arrested. They were then told that they were breaking the law. So every aspect of this scandal is utterly hideous. And the fact that our Labour government
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
which has announced 25 national inquiries for other issues, cannot bring itself to launch an inquiry this time around, also tells you a lot. It tells you that Labour is scared about the scale of this crisis. It tells you that Labour officials are probably implicated in this crisis. And we do know that some Labour officials have been implicated in this crisis in local towns in England.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
It tells you that this crisis probably goes much deeper within the state than we currently are being led to believe. And it tells you again that because the victims are white working class girls...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
that within the matrix of social justice ideology, which dominates many of the public sector institutions, they are simply not seen as being fashionable or important enough to warrant the same level of attention and concern that other groups in our society receive.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Yeah, I think there's a lot to do with that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
So I've always found Tommy Robinson interesting for a number of reasons. We're a similar age. He grew up in Luton, which is very close to the town. I grew up on the outskirts of somewhere called St. Albans. He reminds me of lots of the guys I grew up with. I don't want to make it too personal. My background was somewhat similar, not stable, certainly wasn't middle class.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And so when I saw him first break through in 2009, 2010, drawing attention to this issue, I sort of understood where he was coming from and the anger and the frustration that was driving that. Now, where I departed from Robinson is that I felt at the time
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
that being so provocative, and this was between 2009 and 2013-14, with his movement, the English Defence League, by being so provocative on the streets, I felt that he was playing into the hands of the state, that he was becoming useful for the state, which was then saying, well, if you talk about these issues, you're like these guys. And I think he's obviously been on a journey.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
He's not the same person today that he was then. But I think the reality of Tommy Robinson is that he would not have become a prominent, significant figure in our national political life, which he is. Were it not for the sustained failures of the British state to deal with the issues that he has been campaigning on, had they taken this issue seriously? Had they investigated the rumors?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Had they looked at the rise of radical Islamism as well, particularly within India? some of the communities that Robinson knows very well, then he wouldn't have become a significant figure. So he certainly gave voice to some of the issues that were being ignored, as did, by the way, a few other people at the time, some renegade journalists and so on.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
But I think at the same time, though, and this is a It's a sensitive conversation because I think everybody who cares about this issue cares very strongly about it, right? My view is that the only way we can change Western societies today, we can save Western civilization, we can reassert the values that we care about, is through the ballot box. That's my view.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
That the only way forward is by appealing to a majority of concerned citizens by bringing together a broad coalition of people who say, actually, enough is enough. I'm not going to have this project imposed on me anymore. I'm not going to support mass uncontrolled immigration. I'm not going to be told that little boys can become little girls and little girls can become little boys.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I'm not going to see my country, my home be denigrated in this way. I want to push back through the ballot box. And to me, that's the only viable, alternative, plausible way forward. It's not to say that I think these people are wrong to be highlighting these issues. But I think if you're serious about bringing about change, changing things, changing policy, changing government.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I think the ballot box is the way forward. I don't think Britain has the same culture as France, Italy, and other countries whereby street protest is embraced or supported. I think we have a very distinctive political culture in this country, which social scientists have talked about from the 50s onward. We have a civic culture.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
We're very skeptical of anything that might look like it's aggressive, anything that might look like it's challenging the rule of law. And I think ultimately, it's about what approach do you think is really the most viable way to bring about change?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I mean... Let me just put it a different way. I think path dependency really matters in politics. I think where you start determines your eventual destination. So if you start...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
with a movement that's very combative, provocative, that is associated with, you know, rightly or wrongly, it was associated with drinking and conflict and fighting with cops and whatever, it's just going to be very difficult for you to change the public perception, right? From where you start basically determines your eventual destination.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Now, what I'm interested in, I'm interested in movements that are winning 30, 40% of the national vote, as in, I want to get things done. I want to do what Trump's doing in the U.S., I want to come in and say, right, we're slashing the state. We're getting rid of DEI. We're ending mass uncontrolled immigration. We're going to have a serious strategy for integration, right?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
We're going to push back on net zero. I'm interested in that. I'm not interested in a purity spiral over on the corner here as to, you know, who's been talking about this issue for the longest period of time. I respect people who are ahead of the curve on issues like that, but I'm ultimately interested in how do you actually save a country? What's the most viable way of doing that?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Well, personally, I would want to focus on how we realign politics and save this country. That's where I'm investing a lot of my effort. I have a plan for that. I think I have something that looks pretty credible. I'm involved in the plan to try and do that. I'm speaking across the country at many events nationally. you know, alongside people like Nigel Farage.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And I'm interested in thinking about how do we realign this country in the way that Canada was realigned for a period of time, in the way that America is currently being realigned? What does that actually look like? Because for the first time in history, I think it's actually possible. As you and I are talking right now, Reform is number one in the national polls, okay? It's on 25, 26%.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
It needs to really get to about 31% to win a majority at the next election. I think that's possible. I genuinely do. I think there's so much volatility in British politics at the moment. I think it is possible for this movement to actually do what the Labour Party did in the early 20th century when it emerged to replace the Liberals. I think there is an enormous opportunity
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
for reform to do that principally, but not only because of the mass immigration crisis. So that's where I'm spending a lot of my time. And the rape gangs is part of that, but to me, that's a symbol of the failure of our state policy of multiculturalism.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
It's a symbol of the failure of mass immigration, and it's a symbol of this woke political correctness, the fact that so few people were willing to talk about it, that has created this enormous vacuum. that you're seeing now playing out in the national polls.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
The Liberal Conservatives, I think probably many people in Britain would call them, or the Uniparty, they're indistinguishable from the Labour Party. Look, I think many people in Britain know, I mean, I'm friends with Nigel Farage. I've known him for 15 years. I'm very sympathetic to what he's trying to do. I speak at Reform Party rallies and conferences.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And, you know, I have a close association with the party because I believe fundamentally, political movement that we have that is capable of bringing about the kind of change this country needs to see if it is to be saved. And by that, I mean ending mass uncontrolled, low-skill, low-wage migration from outside of Europe.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I mean, fixing our borders by leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, by reforming the laws that Tony Blair brought in, including the Human Rights Act, by dramatically reducing the 15.3 billion pounds that we spend in foreign aid every year and making sure that our public services work for British people before we send money to China, India and elsewhere.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I mean, pushing back against the net zero policy uh project and i mean investing in non-london areas in places outside of the capital in plate and investing in people outside of the elite minority now i have come to the view the tories the conservative party are completely incapable of doing those things they they are the architects of the mess that we see around us today they are the architects
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
of our national decline, and the Labour Party is part of that. I do not view reform as merely a new Conservative Party. That would be selling it short.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I view reform as a none-of-the-above party, neither left nor right, as a party that could just as easily win over the working class in Northern England and Wales, in the industrial heartlands, as it could win over disillusioned Conservatives in the Tory shies. Look, Jordan, I'll be honest with you. I don't think... Nigel Farage has all the answers.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And I don't think the reform movement is the perfect movement. But what I think is that Britain is, for the first time really in generations, is ideally positioned for a full-blown political realignment. And I think Nigel Farage and reform are the vehicle that can be used to bring that about.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Well, the first thing I would say is congratulations, Jordan. You are a reformer. If you believe all of those things, then you share the platform of reform. And I look forward to seeing you at ARC. But in my mind, there are two principles that differentiate this movement from what we might call the Uniparty, in my mind. And I'm not speaking in an official capacity for reform.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
The first is the principle of popular sovereignty. I think... Reform believes that the true source of power, authority, and legitimacy lies not with a distant elite, but with the people. I believe that ultimately, the relationship in politics that matters is vertical. It runs from the people to those they elect to represent them on their behalf.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
It does not run horizontally from one group of elites in Westminster to another group of elites in Davos to another group of elites in Washington. foremost in the principle of popular sovereignty. That's what got things like Brexit over the line, and that's what will get many other common sense positions over the line.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
The second principle that I think unites reformers and certainly is something I believe in is the principle of national preference, namely that in every aspect of our country, our home, I believe, from housing to the economy to our culture, identity, and history, that the people of that country should ultimately be prioritized.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
That if limited housing is available, if limited places on the National Health Service are available, if we have money, we should focus on fixing our home before helping other parts of the world. That's not to say we don't want to help other parts of the world. It's just a about the ranking and the order of preference.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Those are the two principles that I think put the reform movement clearly apart from the Uniparty because both the Labour Party and the Tory party have shown consistently that they don't respect the values and the voice of ordinary people.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And they have shown quite clearly that they don't have much of an interest in prioritizing and protecting our home and the things that make our home distinctive, its identity, its culture, and its sense of collective memory or its history. So to me, reform is a common sense position. Almost all of its policies
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
from migration to the borders to the economy, almost all of them are supported by large majorities of people. And they used to be advocated by mainstream politicians. It's just, as I say, the elite class has drifted so far to the cultural left. You know, we had a survey recently in Britain by some social scientists, and they found that Labour and Tory MPs are closer together ideologically
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
than Tory MPs are to the average voter, right? In other words, the Conservative movement have moved so far to the cultural left that they've basically abandoned ordinary voters. They're indistinguishable, basically, from their Labour colleagues. Now, nobody could say that about Reform MPs. They are bang on, basically, where the average voter is on these big cultural and identity questions.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
So that's how I see it. And I see it's a correction to a system that has become deeply corrupt and ideologically homogenous.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
But I'll just say, just about the conversation that you're sparking with ARK, you have to understand, Jordan, that that is essentially the only place that is having that conversation here in the UK. I mean, if you look at the long-term forecast of where we are headed as a country, by 2100, our fertility rate is forecast to be 1.3%. well below the replacement level of 2.1.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
It's currently at about 1.6 at the moment. We also now know that between today and 2047, which again isn't really that far away, 22 years, our population is forecast to grow by another 10 million people, obviously all of whom will come from outside of the UK. Migration is the only driver.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
It is the only driver of population growth in this country because more people are now dying than being born among the British population. So migration is the only driver of population growth while our fertility rate is collapsing. So what I'm saying is... If you want to have a conversation about pro-family policy, okay, what does that look like?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
How can we support families outside of, you know, tinkering with the tax system? How could we actually radically have, bring about a pro-family culture, right? And people say, oh, you can't do that. Well, I say, well, look what they did with smoking. I mean, look at how, you know, that changed the culture, right? You've suddenly convinced everybody.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Israel has done it. Now, interestingly, Israel has had a lot more success than countries like Poland and Hungary, also countries under the world. Now, how has Israel done it? Israel has done it by making it clear that actually the survival of the nation, the survival of the people is dependent upon them all assuming responsibility and playing a role in that enterprise.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Well, I think in many ways, Jordan, our stories are somewhat similar within higher education. If you look at the UK, the stat that I always remind people is back in the 1960s, for every one conservative academic, there were three academics on the left. Today, for every one conservative, classical, liberal academic, there are 10 academics on the left today.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Now, somehow Western nations have to come up with something similar, something that is existential, that appeals to the soul and appeals to that sense of responsibility, because I don't think tax changes and all that stuff are really going to do it. But again, family, so that conversation is happening at ARC. It's not happening with our mainstream political elite. The effects of migration are
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
They're not talking about the evidence that is being accumulated that is showing this is going to be a disaster over the next 10, 20, 30 years. What we're doing, like Canada, is we are pushing our country into a population trap. And what do I mean by that? I mean that we are basically pushing ourselves into a position whereby the capacity of the state to provide basic public services
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
is being overwhelmed by the sheer scale of demographic change. That's a population trap. So if you cannot provide basic health services, basic housing, if you cannot keep people safe on their streets, and you're being sort of flooded with demographic change, well, you know, welcome to a disaster, because that is what is unfolding, not just here, but also, by the way, in countries like Sweden.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I mean, most of your viewers, I suspect, won't know this, but Since Christmas, you know, we're speaking in February 2025. In the last month, there have been more than 30 bombings in Sweden. 30 bombings in Sweden. Right. None of that's covered with the Weather Magazine. None of that's in the mainstream media. Unbelievable.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Again, you know, conversations that are being had, thankfully, in this new ecosystem of podcasts, of shows, of Daily Wire, new universities—
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
That is one of the reasons, one of the few reasons why I am actually optimistic, because we are now beginning to force a conversation about family policy, about the rape gangs, about the future of the West, about how we reframe our understanding of our history, about how we share a sense of patriotism and a belief in the values that have driven this thing we love called Western civilization.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
That's one of the only reasons I'm actually optimistic that this new ecosystem has taken off to the extent that it has done.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
If you look at the rigorous surveys of how faculty has changed over the last half century or so. And so within that, what you've seen
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Thanks, Jordan. Looking forward to seeing you as well.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
You know, as I'm sure many people in North America will also relate to, you've seen the rapid expansion of the university bureaucracy, the politicization of the university bureaucracy, which for an academic like me found its expression in having to do things like mandatory diversity statements.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
whereby every time I went for a research grant, every time I went for a job, I had to swear allegiance, essentially, to the diversity, equity, and inclusion agenda. I had to decolonize my university reading list. But more than that, Jordan, to be frank,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I was sick and tired of watching many of my colleagues, good people, Kathleen Stock, Noah Karl, Eric Kaufman, among others, being harassed, bullied, intimidated, and chased off campus because they were saying entirely legitimate, reasonable things that happened to violate this orthodoxy on campus. And I felt sorry for my students. I felt sorry for their parents who were paying for this education.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And it was particularly for me, actually. It was the experience of going through the Brexit referendum, okay? I mean, just to paint a brief picture, prior to 2016, with the votes for Brexit and Trump, I was, by all metrics, a very successful academic. I was one of the youngest professors ever. in the UK. I had no problem getting research grants.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I attracted a lot of money from the research councils. I published it for Oxford University Press, Cambridge University Press. I published in the most prestigious academic journals. And this was part of what I would call the BB era in my career, before Brexit.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
Now, when 52% of voters decided they wanted to leave the European Union, and I publicly expressed my acceptance of that, I didn't campaign for Brexit, but I said, well, if 52% of people want to leave, okay, let's leave the European Union. And I wrote some op-eds saying perhaps how Britain could take advantage of this. Well, everything in my career after that changed.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I mean, I can only describe it as... being something similar to what I experienced when I was at high school, being bullied by kids in a boys' school, notoriously difficult environments. But academics really did launch a sustained campaign of harassment and intimidation. I was taken off research council peer bodies. I struggled to publish.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
And suddenly my research grant applications were rejected. So this isn't the sort of complaint of an academic that never had these things. I just noticed such a tangible shift. And after a while, you have to look yourself in the mirror and you have to ask yourself, do I want to spend the rest of my life doing this because I was becoming very depressed. I wasn't particularly pleasant to be around.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
You know, it wasn't a nice environment. I have a family, friends. People were saying, you know, what's going on? What's the matter? And I just said, you know, this is crazy. I don't want to spend the rest of my life like this. And I looked at what was happening at the University of Austin. I looked at what was happening at the University of Buckingham here in the UK.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I looked at things like, you know, you've got the Peterson Academy. I said, well, here are parallel structures, parallel institutions. Okay, so that's important. We should be supporting that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
But I also started to campaign for something called the Higher Education Free Speech Act here in the UK, which was the first piece of legislation that created a legal duty on universities here in the UK to protect and promote free speech and academic freedom on campus. And thankfully, that was
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
that was passed, although the current Labour government is now defanging that law, and we can come on and talk about that. But I decided, basically, I wanted to do something about the state of my country and the state of the West. And to be honest, I concluded that I couldn't really do that while remaining a university professor. I do believe in the importance of neutrality, of objectivity.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
521. Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin
I don't think university professors should be politically active to the degree that I want to become politically active. And so I made a decision. I said, okay, I'm going to walk away from this after 20 years, and I'm going to actually try and enter the wider public debate and try and give people a voice.