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Lyda Gibson

Appearances

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1199.871

So there were initially a separate wing for the Black patients, and then very quickly they built annexes off the back that were three stories as well. But, you know, obviously they weren't as big and spacious as the initial structure.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1613.322

Yes. So the Kirkbride Plan in general, and certainly the institution in Mississippi, was established for those people who could be cured. It was never meant as a place where people would live out their lives, but there were no other options. So what do you do with somebody who is having epileptic seizures all day long? What do you do with people who are never going to get better?

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1638.057

And this idea that People who had been dethroned of reason were the only people that this institution could serve was just not realistic from the beginning. And I think that's the popular narrative that they just said, you know, okay, we're going to just become everything to all these people who need different things. They simply were reacting to the situation at the time.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1664.178

And, you know, in a couple of the reports, people say, what are we supposed to do when people show up at the door? Are we supposed to just leave them out on the streets? And so there were a lot of people who were accepted in the asylum and there was an acknowledgement that they weren't going to get better. So the philosophy never really changed.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1684.933

It was simply that they had to deal with the cards they were dealt.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1705.663

I mean, I had never even heard of pellagra before. So pellagra was a nutritional deficiency that just swept the Southeast starting at about 1910. And it's characterized by what they call the four Ds, dermatitis, diarrhea, dementia, death.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1726.318

in that order people from all walks of life would come down with pellagra of course the dementia wasn't apparent until close to the end so many many patients especially those from the delta were admitted with pellagra and in the institutional reports they talk about you know by the time they get here it's too late to do anything

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1787.988

So he did an experiment with prisoners from the Rankin County Penitentiary. These were, quote, volunteers who were then fed a very specific diet, and they were able to understand that pellagra came from this niacin deficiency.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1823.353

Because if you look at the old pictures of the, you know, of sharecroppers on the farms in the Delta, that cotton is planted right up to the shacks because they wanted to use every inch of land for cotton. And so they stopped... growing their own vegetables and raising hogs or raising cattle or anything like that. And they bought everything from the company store.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1845.461

I think it's like fatback and molasses.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1899.788

And that's why we have enriched foods now. That's what it means. The advent of enriched foods was from Pelagra.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1917.275

I know that a lot of the work that's been done on asylums in the South in general assumes that patients came to the asylums and were not fed well and got pellagra at the asylum and then ended up dying of pellagra. I think the story is much different.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

1955.238

They raised cattle. They had an award-winning hog operation, award-winning poultry operation. And my feeling is that patients may have been better fed at the asylum than they were at their homes.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

2006.634

And so the death rate for people with pellagra was just incredible. I think it's a condemnation of sort of the Mississippi society rather than the asylum itself.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

2070.042

There were people who committed suicide, and there were people who, you know, were victims of patient-on-patient violence. I am absolutely positive there were patients who were victims of sexual violence by, you know, the caregivers. I'm not saying that didn't happen. I'm saying if we only focus on that, we miss a lot of the story.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

2115.143

And I say 30,000 patients approximately, and about 10,000 died based on the institutional records. And then 2,500 patients were there when Whitfield opened. So that means that 17,500 patients approximately were treated and released. We never hear those stories.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

2133.389

I mean, I've run across maybe a couple of stories about, oh yeah, my great uncle went there, was at the old asylum for a little while, and then he came home and he was fine. You know, I mean, we just don't get those stories.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

2196.499

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

3317.102

When I first started this project, and I think the goals of the consortium members, the scholars who were involved from the beginning, certainly Dr. Didlake, was to sort of paint a portrait of what life was like at the asylum. And unfortunately, I think that's very, very difficult to do.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

3338.608

When we try to sort of paint a portrait of what life was like or create a picture of what life was like at the asylum, number one, it was different from one year to the next, one decade to the next. It was different depending on your condition. I'm not naive enough to think that the black patients were treated as well as the white patients.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

3364.292

But I also think sort of dismissing the superintendents and the people who work there because they were clearly entrenched in systemic racism, basically. I think we if we simply. ignore the stories. Because of that, we miss a lot of the story.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

3384.567

So I've tried to have an open mind about possibly, I mean, was there anything positive about the fact that Black patients were admitted there and treated there? And I think in some ways trying to paint these really broad strokes is less respectful to the patients than we should be.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

518.217

The popular narrative is that it was great when it started out and then it just went downhill. The true narrative, I think, is just much more complicated than that.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

743.533

Thomas Kirkbride, who was a psychiatrist, was very devoted to taking care of people with mental health issues. And, you know, it's this whole idea that if you just get away from the normal pressures of life and have a little time to breathe and to enjoy the fresh air and to be taken care of, then you'll get better and you can return to life as a normal citizen.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

799.313

The Kirkbride plan, the idea was that you had to have a certain amount of cubic feet of airspace in order to get Well, these were rooms with really tall ceilings. They had huge windows. The patients could open the windows and you'll notice from the plan there's a hall down the middle and then every room on every side has a window. People had their own rooms when it first started.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

823.348

I mean, this would be like a luxurious dorm room. It called on.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

913.052

Perhaps it's not so pointed in the institutional records, but you read between the lines and you say, you know, look at what we do for those unfortunates among us. They did not use the words that would be... that would be acceptable today. And this became something that they could point to. This was the most impressive structure in the state that remained after the Civil War.

Under Yazoo Clay

Ever True to Thee

941.848

This was sort of a monument to the goodness of Mississippi leaders.

Under Yazoo Clay

A Southern Ethos

1007.88

I don't believe anybody in the community, anybody certainly at the medical center now, really understood that there could possibly be that many burials on campus. One of my first questions when I came on was, why can't we just leave it? You know, why don't we just leave it alone? And why don't we let these people rest?

Under Yazoo Clay

A Southern Ethos

1640.243

In 1990, when a building was being constructed in that area, the construction workers came across some burials as well. And at that time, the leadership went to the city and got all the sort of legal documents in place so that they could exhume these remains and relocate them to the UMMC cemetery.

Under Yazoo Clay

A Southern Ethos

1981.093

I'm Lyda Gibson. I am the coordinator of the Asylum Hill Project.

Under Yazoo Clay

A Southern Ethos

2024.81

So it was the vision of Dr. Ralph Didlake to handle this challenge of having a cemetery on the last remaining part of the campus. It was his vision to kind of deal with this in a way that was ethical, that embraced the community.

Under Yazoo Clay

A Southern Ethos

2237.196

Thank you. Thank you.

Under Yazoo Clay

A Southern Ethos

739.685

UMMC's place in Mississippi is incredibly important. Many people have no other options for health care except UMMC. This is Lyda Gibson. She works with the medical center. And it's needed for people who maybe come to Jackson for a day and have to get everything taken care of because they live 100 miles away.

Under Yazoo Clay

Threads

1822.56

There's the project of sorting archived patient records. I think I estimated that it would take five years, given our current staffing, to just get everything indexed and separated.

Under Yazoo Clay

Threads

2010.4

I'm not sure any of us expected that we would be at this point today, but here we are. And I mean, there are people who, I mean, there are descendants who've said, you know what, I don't like the idea of my relative being disturbed, but if she has to be, then this is the way I want it done.

Under Yazoo Clay

Threads

218.497

Well, the first time I heard about the old asylum, was from my mother. My mother is still with us. She is 95 years old, but she remembers as a child driving through the gravel driveway in front of the asylum on Sunday afternoons and waving at the patients. We've had lots of people who've come from the community and said, yeah, oh yeah, that was like the place to go.

Under Yazoo Clay

Threads

321.37

Whitfield was funded by the legislature in 1926. Then the Depression happened. Then there were shortages of everything, you know. And so the building of Whitfield and the opening of Whitfield was delayed until 1935. So you had from 1926 to 1935 when they were trying not to put any more money into this building that was literally condemned by the time the patients moved out.

Under Yazoo Clay

Threads

500.564

I am fine. So I was calling you because I have found some information about Zinni. And I'm going to send you the forms that you need to fill out to get it. It's some patient records. And anyway, it's pretty self-explanatory. But I also wanted to ask you...