Keith Sant
Appearances
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
and at the end of the day google is just an algorithm it's a robot and it crawls pages and it determines you know and so there's all these little data points that you could optimize to show google we have the best and most complete answer and get above the guy and the gun is next to you that's the other really cool thing about seo i love it's not you don't have to have the best website in the world you just have to be a little better than the guy in front of you and a lot of times that bar is a lot lower than you think
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
um that's a good question so like why people would want to do it um versus ppc i don't think it's an exact replacement they could actually complement each other because there's sometimes where like hey if you're like you know i need to get leads like today like you're gonna want to you know pay-per-click facebook ads something to like drive traffic today seo definitely is a long run or a long game like i and what i mean by that is i could typically get people leads within like three months and
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
100% sometimes a brand is a lot easier than others, right? Like, like not Justin buys Bama is an example of one. That's actually pretty easy because no one else, there's only like one other guy. I see like, you know, Justin buys houses.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
It's kind of on the same first page, kind of competing with the brand name, but like, there's like, there's like John buys houses and John Medina buys houses and John buys your house and John buys Bay area houses. And there's like, so I wouldn't even mess with a company name like that because you're never going to be able to rank like Not that I say I wouldn't mess with it.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
If that's your company name, it is what it is, but it's going to be harder. You want kind of something a little unique. And what that's going to allow you to do is you want, if someone Googles your company name, to dominate as much of the first page as possible.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
So if someone Googles Justin buys Bama houses, you definitely want to be, and you are right now, but you want to be above the Justin buys houses. guy because you don't want to do marketing and now all of a sudden they click on the wrong website on accident and you just paid for them to get a lead that's right
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Yeah, even with him duplicating leads. I just talked to him a couple of days ago. He was showing me all of his numbers and he's getting, you know, cost per deal is like $2,500 with SEO. And he still spends $30K a month with pay-per-click. And that's $4,500 a deal. So it's literally in half. And the longer he does it, the cost was actually way lower. But then he added a bunch more sites.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
And so that loaded a lot more. And so his cost per deal went up. And now it's going down even more again. It's going to be under $1,000 a year in the next six months or so.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Definitely getting those brand searches up. Facebook ads are another really good way to do that. And you mentioned you wouldn't do pay-per-click. I wouldn't do pay-per-click without also doing Facebook ads, at least the retargeting. Because you spend like $90 a click sometimes, $120 a click, these really expensive clicks, and the person doesn't fill out the form right then at that moment.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Like you want to be able to go back and like retarget that audience. And like my cost per lead on the retargeting on the Facebook stuff is like 50 bucks a lead in the same market. So you're just basically picking up all the last little bit of juice from your expensive pay-per-click budget or your expensive, you know, direct mail or anything else you're doing. Yeah.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Like they're closing deals by like four to six months for sure. And then everything just kind of snowballs after that. Like it, you know, it might take you six months to close the first deal. And then you close another one in a month later, two months later. And that's saying, you know, you're closing a deal a month for half the price, 10% of the cost of like pay-per-click.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Absolutely. Um, and, and I don't know, I didn't mention it, but we do have a Facebook group too, called SEO meets real estate. It's called SEO meets real estate investors. Um, we teach a lot of this stuff for free. I'm a huge, I'm, I'm a huge fan of the underdog. Um, like we'll teach you how to do it for free. Like I just do it for people that have more money than they have time.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Oh no, it's a public one. You just click an invite or yeah. Yeah.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Like almost 90% or like probably 95% plus of my clients are on carrot. Um, they're the best out there for, you know, websites for real estate investors. I definitely recommend them. All of my sites are carrot sites. I'm a big fan of them. Um, we've worked on some WordPress sites too. I haven't played with a minute page or anything else.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Yeah, I mean, I do both. Again, like if they want, I'll tell you how to do it and you go do it yourself or I'll do it for you. I mean, there's a ton that goes into like actually, you know, optimizing your site, right? Like let's say you get a stock, you know, minute page or carrot site.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
right like you want to make it different there's there's a ton of those you know those little things that google crawls that algorithm you know they first they crawl your title right like a lot of people their their stock title is like you know sell my house fast alabama you know uh justin buys or you know justin buys bama and that's not that great of a title there's a lot of other you know like for instance i have three keywords in my title i you know
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
sell my house fast dash you know we buy houses dash cash home buyers you know and and that's just the title then you get another meta description um you get your headings are really valuable that kind of stuff too yeah yeah there's just all these little tiny things these and You know, again, you don't have to have the best website in the world, just a little better than the guy in front of you.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
There's tools like, you know, there's SEO Quake, which is a really good free resources where you could kind of look and see what your competitor's site looks like. Just really quick snapshot and boom, are these things checked? Like what's their density look like? What's their title, meta keywords? Do they have alt text on their images? How many images do they have? You know, et cetera.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
And then you just make it a little better.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Yeah. No, I agree with what you're saying. Like, Hey, I wouldn't, you know, like I never want to know like exactly how to drywall a house, but I kind of want to know. So that way I know that my drywallers are doing a good job. And the thing with SEO is that it's so foreign to a ton of people that they just hire whoever.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
And then that's, that's where I come in because they're hiring all these people that say they're the guru or the shit and they suck and they're not actually providing any services. So like, I like to kind of show people that I actually know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Just because like then they know, hey, Keith is Keith knows what the hell he's talking about.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
I know I'm not going to do all that because it's probably way over my head. But I know he knows what what's going on and like he's the guy.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Oh, yeah. I say book a call with me. I'm the guy. I'll be on the call with them. I'll answer any questions, show them results, clients, what to expect, prices, all that stuff.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
I mean, I got one guy that's just insanely crushing it. But again, he understood the value and put a ton of money into it. He's spending like 20 grand a month. But with just me across 19 different sites right now. But no, he does another 30 in pay-per-click plus other stuff too. But again, he's done like 1.6 million in assignments and everything this year to date.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
He's been with me a couple of years. Last year, I forget the numbers last year. But yeah, so even though he's spent a ton, like his ROI is like insanely high and way better than any of his other marketing channels. Like a typical, like another guy, I got another guy like out of Kansas City. He's getting like 90 leads a month right now. Wow. Insane. Yeah. And he's been with me in a while.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
So that's the other cool thing about SEO. Well, the other part of SEO are backlinks, right? So you dial in your page better than the guy next to you. That's what I do with like the website build or I teach you how to do. And the other part to get more backlinks than the guy next to you. That's typically a little harder. Most people like that.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
They definitely probably want to hit me up because you could get backlinks that don't work. You could execute it wrong. It actually hurt you more than help you. Uh, this guy actually, you know, did a bunch that didn't help him. Uh, he hired me in like 2022. I redid everything. He's spending like three grand a month in backline. So we redid his website. He was doing three grand a month.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
I bought it literally a year later.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
a year ago i hit him up i'm like nick you're crushing it you're like ranking number one for everything in your market i can't get you any higher on the site like i if you want to add another site i can but or if you want to expand your site and go out into multiple states and we can do that too but otherwise like you don't have if you don't have to keep spending three grand a month on backlinks just for the sake of spending three grand you could do like 500 bucks a month and just maintain your rankings which he's done and now he's still getting 90 leads a month right now which is insane
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
And like, there's no other marketing channel like that. And so he finally, we just did a second site for him. And now he's starting. He just got his first like in-city lead a couple of days ago, but also got a bunch of, you know, the surrounding Blue Springs, Olathe, all the other little cities too. But that's the cool thing about SEO. Even my site too, that I started back in like 2017, 2018.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
I only put like, you know, I got like 90 leads on it this month and I only put like 500 bucks a month on it. because I already did all the hard work. That's right. But it is one of those things where it's like if you bought a rental, right? You got to put some money into it, fix it up. You get a renter in there.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
It's going to be a while before you actually hit that break even point and you get your money back. But then next thing you know, you're like, I'm cash flowing and I have appreciation. This is amazing. Let's do it again. But in the beginning, you're like, oh, when am I going to get my money back kind of thing? Typically, I've seen people spend anywhere like 10 to 15K.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
And it's not easy to do for a lot of people. I don't know, especially realtors, for sure. They are notorious for not wanting to put a lot of money into their marketing. But real estate investors, people just want stuff now, right? Instant gratification. But if you're willing to wait, it's huge.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Before they close their first deal. Sometimes with SEO, just straight up. But some people close a lot less. I'm just saying. But even on the highest end, they spend 15K. They close their first deal. That typically pays for itself. And now their next deal is...
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
And I'm not saying, hey, like I typically tell people like SEO shouldn't be the very first marketing channel, especially if you're new or like that's not the first thing you invest in. But, you know, let's just say your marketing budget's four grand a month or three grand a month. Like let's just say 500 towards SEO and 35 to the other.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Like a year from now, you wish you started today, even if you started a small budget and then you could always reinvest and work it or work your way up. But yeah.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Yeah, so if you Google anything at all, right, you might see like a couple spots at the top where it says like ad next to it, AD. Those are like your pay-per-click ads. So you're actually paying for those to be placed at the top. Anything right below that, those are your organic search results.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Google's whole job is to put the best and the most complete answer in front of a searcher as fast as possible. And so search engine optimization is basically showing Google that we have the best and the most complete answer for the things you want to
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
we want to show up for and at the end of the day google is just an algorithm it's a robot and it crawls pages and it determines you know and so there's all these little data points that you could optimize to show google we have the best and most complete answer and get above the guy and the gun is next to you that's the other really cool thing about seo i love it's not you don't have to have the best website in the world you just have to be a little better than the guy in front of you and a lot of times that bar is a lot lower than you think
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Once you get ranking good in any market, or even before you ask, to get more leads in the same market, having multiple sites is the way to go. I have five different sites in my one main market and 14 sites total. One of my biggest clients, he's got 19 sites, all in the state of Texas. If you Google a lot of phrases, he's like six of the 10 search results. And... I talked to him the other day.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
He had he had a lady got seven offers. Five of them were from him. He got the hand of getting the deal because, you know, each one. Hey, this is you know, this is so and so. Hey, yeah. So now the value in that, because I know some people are like, oh, I don't want to pay for that seemingly twice. Like, oh, like I'm working twice as hard to get the same lead.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
And like, I would rather pay an extra 100, 200 bucks or whatever, or 300 bucks to get the same lead twice than to be getting outbid or bid up so high that I can't get the deal or like, you know, the margin just shrinks so low. Like, you know, I'd much rather pay 400 bucks and be bid up 20 grand at the negotiating table. If that makes sense.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Oh yeah. Yeah. That's it. Like I remember when I first started, cause I'm an investor too. Like I do SEO for people, but I started on my own stuff. And when I started pay-per-click back in like 2018, I was getting lanes for like 150, 125, you know, it was, it was awesome. We do that all day long.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
And then it went up to, you know, 300 and then four, four, you know, like it kind of cooled down a little bit, but like towards the beginning of last year, it was like four 50, 500 elite in my, in my like Seattle Tacoma market. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Pay-per-click PPC. But I mean, even some of the PPL stuff, too. Like, you know, people, you know, they bid. Yeah, there's a lot of psychology in that.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
But people just bid just to be number one, even if it doesn't make sense. And I wish a lot. I wish more people would do that. you know, their ROAS return on ad spend, you know, what their actual cost per deal was from the different marketing channels. Because, yeah, you want to do more of what's actually working.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Yeah. So I started, I was doing it on my own, right from my own websites. I had a ton of people ask me to do SEO for them. I would always send them to like, you know, there was one company at the time that I thought was probably the best out there at that, at that time. I sent one of my biggest clients or one, one client to them.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
And after like a year with them, like he still wasn't getting the results. And I just noticed like a ton of holes and flaws and I'm like, Oh my God. So like, and yeah, I honestly, I love this stuff. I nerd out on this. I'm good at closing deals. I could close deals and negotiate all day long. It's just at the end of the day, it drains my energy.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
I'm exhausted after talking to a bunch of sellers and buyers and all that stuff. I love doing the SEO stuff. I don't know why. I'm a freak. Back two years ago, I actually stopped it. I haven't talked to the seller in like two years. All my leads go to one guy. He closes the deals. We split it 50-50. Like my websites are like assets for me. And then, yeah.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
And so I've been doing SEO full time for people. I didn't create an SEO company because I wanted to. I just kind of realized like the world needed me to because no one out there was doing it right.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
Yeah, absolutely. I'll say this multiple times, but again, Google's whole job is to put the best and the most complete answer in front of a searcher as fast as possible. But they want to put a real, legit, credible company to the top of Google, not a fly-by-night website that knows how to optimize. And there's different ways that Google could say, hey, is this a real company?
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
But yeah, your branding is super important. You know, having having social media profiles is like really important. A real legit company would have a LinkedIn, would have a Facebook, would have an Instagram, would have, you know, these certain little things. The other really big thing that that plays effect is.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
people searching your brand name right because um that's one of the ways google could determine is this a real legit credible company because no you know it's not a real legit credible company if no one's googling like my name my company is like kind house buyers right if no one is googling kind house buyers each month my website wouldn't do anything if that if that makes it or it'd be very very hard so i'd yeah
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
If you're doing any other marketing, like, you know, let's just say radio or TV, those are way crazy. But, you know, even your postcards, putting your website or brand name on bandit signs, you know, definitely branding your Facebook ads, running a couple dollars a day on YouTube with your company on it. Yeah.
The Science of Flipping
Cut Your Lead Costs by 90% with SEO | Keith Sant
it google display ads are another really good way to for really cheap to get your company name out there and just be seen a ton and to get people curious and they google your brand name and then that helps your seo and everything but yeah absolutely so let's just use the example i'm going to use myself as an example so i run commercial ads in alabama and it's called justinbuysbama.com