Joseph Nguyen
Appearances
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
So I think people don't, they're not aware of how their past traumas cause them to engage in these behaviors that create busyness in their lives. But when you start pointing it out and you help them to understand that, the science of your happiness, which is different than my happiness, then they put the pieces together. But many of us don't know.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
That's a great question. One of the symptoms of trauma is internalizing negative self-worth and shame and blame. Again, there are so many symptoms, but we only think about hypervigilance, flashback, nightmares. And one of the things that I had to, and I still challenge within myself is the self-worth. And if you're someone who has that additional trauma of the microaggressions of
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
being told you don't belong, that worsens that inner self-worth and you end up overworking, over-functioning to prove yourself. And it's not just in women of color, it's in women, right? It's in people who are from groups that tend to not have as many opportunities. They have to prove themselves. It's no wonder that women have twice the risk of anxiety and depression compared to men.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
There are just so many social factors involved and that we're not even going into their biology and their hormones, but there's just so much happening in the world of people. When you think about their bio psychosocial, which is basically the model for your, the science of your happiness that we really need to think about. And personally personally,
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Having to prove myself at these prestigious institutions, if I had not reflected on it, that would have continued for the rest of my life, proving my worth, over-functioning, overdoing. And eventually, Maybe it would have led to a breakdown mentally, but it also can lead to a breakdown physically.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Sometimes I have patients who go to the ER and they're like, the doctor checked, nothing was wrong, but their heart was like almost 200 beats per minute, right? Or they had a fainting spell or some weird neurological things that didn't even get diagnosed. Your body will tell you.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
this has to stop and the other thing I see is that if you don't stop this over functioning let's say you don't develop a mental breakdown but you have you don't develop a physical breakdown you may be coping negatively you may be drinking too much or you may be being on devices and shopping more engaging in these unhealthy soothing behaviors.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
So something's gonna get what I found is that when you see people who are over functioning, a lot of times, it's not just them, it has been contagious, it spreads to their families, it spreads to their team, it spreads Even to their pets, right? Everyone's not happy. There's a lack of joy. The anhedonia spreads to the ecosystem.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
But if you can retrain yourself and start to engage in being present, slowing down and accessing life the way you should, then that spreads as well. So you can actually reverse things if you're mindful and intentional about it.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Absolutely. Because the stomach disorder, by definition, has to impair your functioning. And that's why the term high function depression came up because there was just no place for people who have depressive symptoms who are overfunctioning. There's literally no place for them in the DSM-5.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And so the anhedonia that you're describing, that numbness, that blah, that is a major hallmark of high functioning depression. In my study, the first ever study on high function depression in the world was conducted in my lab. We just had a peer reviewed publication this year. Anhedonia is very important, but most people, even doctors don't know what it is.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
It has been around for ages in the medical literature. It is prevalent in the research, but most clinicians don't know it. So they just gloss over it. If you're not crying and not getting out of bed, then why are you even in my office, right?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
If you ever go to your doctor and you're like, I feel numb, blah, I'm going through emotions, I'm overproducing, they're going to be like, why are you here, right? But it is a problem. We are built with the DNA to get joy. Like your son, you don't have to teach a child to be joyful. They just know. Watch any toddler, give them a box and a spoon, and they will play for hours, right?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
The DNA for joy is built into us, but somewhere along the line, be it because of trauma, be it because of the roles we take on, whatever it is, some core belief that's not really true, but we hold on to it. We forget joy and we get tied up to our roles and we busy ourselves. And then after a while, we don't even know who we are anymore.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
We don't even know who we are without our roles, but we are here for a reason. There's only one you, John. There's only one Judith. If you don't understand the science of what's making you unhappy, how can you understand the science of how to make yourself happy? And it's so important to take a step back and to be like, why am I this way?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
What is it that I'm trying to do or achieve by busying myself? Is it a low self-worth? Is it a need to prove myself? Is there unresolved trauma from childhood where I was neglected or not given the love and support that I needed? Was there something else, a personal tragedy?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
But the tools in my book will help people, I hope, to understand that and to understand what's pulling from their joy so they know how to add to their lives in ways to bring that joy back. Because it's in our DNA. We just forget how to access it.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Well, burnout is a term that was only recently added to the DSM, the Bible of psychiatry. But burnout by definition, and by the way, it was only recently added, but no one would argue that it didn't exist before it was put in the classification, right? We all know it existed way before we decided to acknowledge it, right?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
but by definition burnout is related to your environment your occupational role and then by definition once you're removed from it you should get better but people with high function depression it doesn't matter if they're in the workplace because outside of work they're over functioning they're doing too much they're taking on too many roles in their church they're taking on too many roles in their community they're just like being everyone's everything
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
So there's something about us as people who are high functioning. We just have to keep busy. We can't slow down. When we are still, we feel empty and restless. And we don't take the time to process that pain. Instead, we just do more. Like you knew, I'm not your provider, I'm not treating you, but you're saying you knew. that you should be slowing down. But what did you do instead?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
You kept going. You kept adding more to the pile, right? And it's important to make that distinction. Again, if it's true burnout, you go on a vacation, you take a leave, it should get better. You shouldn't be looking for more to do when you leave. But people who are functioning, they can't relax. They continue to add more. They can't slow down. They're running from something.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
But the tools to look for are when you're still, do you feel restless? When you're not busy, do you feel empty? Do you find that things that you used to enjoy just don't give you that same spark anymore? For example, you're eating your favorite meal and you're just like shoving it in your mouth just to give yourself some calories and energy, not to savor it.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
When you're looking at art or something that you used to find beautiful and breathtaking, you're just not as appreciative of it. When you're with people that you love, you're not engaged, you're not present. These are all signs that you should not ignore. They're not crisis, right? They're not something that's going to bring you to the ER.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
But again, they're important because these are the things that make life worth living. These are the simple joys in life. Resting is a joy. If you want to argue with me, look at any baby, right? They can sleep and they love their sleep. Why? It is a joyful thing. Not being stressed and overwhelmed. That is joy.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And when people say that, they're like, oh, well, isn't there a difference between anxiety and depression? Well, in the research, when we do the rating scales, being relaxed and not stressed is actually a point of joy that is measured in depression. eating a meal and savoring it, that's a point of joy that's measured in depression. All of these things are points of joy.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
But when we think about happiness outside of research, it's always, okay, I'll be happy when I become the CIO. I'll be happy when I'm Forbes 50 under 50 or something like that, or whatever it is they do these days. I'll be happy when I get the job or the partner or the house and the kids.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
But the research shows us that if we use those metrics for the happiness and we delay happiness for a then, a thing in the future, we're still not happy. We keep searching. We keep adding more to the plate. And if you have that reframe, that shift of happiness,
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
I'm going to search for joy, which is the experience, the plethora of sensations that make being a human worth living versus I'm searching for happiness, which is an idea or an ideal. It is a game changer. And I'll use myself as an example. I used to chase the accolades of I want to get this prestigious study because then I'll prove to the academic community that I can do it. Chasing studies.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
I got the study, kept wanting more. I got the first lab, wanted a second lab, wanted a third. It just never ended. Versus now, for me, the best part of my day is just being present with my eight-year-old and reading a book with her and snuggling with her because she still has cheeks.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Those are points of joy that I took for granted, that I was missing out on because I was chasing this idea of happiness. And when you're on your deathbed one day, you're not going to think, I wish I had that additional promotion and that extra certificate. You're going to be like, I wish I had five more minutes with that person that I love.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
I had five more minutes doing that thing that I love or seeing that sunset or being in nature, right? That's what you're going to think about. But we get so distracted by the things we think we should be chasing that we miss out on the simple and basic joys in life that are literally within our reach.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
What I found is that when you see people who are over-functioning, a lot of times it's not just them. It has been contagious. It spreads to their families. It spreads to their team. It spreads even to their pets, right? Everyone's not happy. There's a lack of joy. The anhedonia spreads to the ecosystem.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
But if you can retrain yourself and start to engage in being present, slowing down and accessing life the way you should, then that spreads as well. So you can actually reverse things if you're mindful and intentional about it.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Absolutely. We get so distracted. I think even more today.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
john i really do i think because we have access to this the phone i think we are in an anhedonic crisis even more than ever not just children but adults because we are constantly given images of what we think we should be striving for we're constantly giving comparisons like every time i open up my linkedin someone's got another promotion or another company or another venture
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
We are being fed this idea of fake happiness, false joy, that we're missing out on the actual living that we should be doing. We are humans doing, not human beings. And I think that work in the end of life research is so important, but nobody wants to look at that. Nobody wants to talk about death. We don't want to think about that. But it's so important to understand how to live.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
by looking at those who are dying, who are close to death. And thank you for sharing that story. I know for you, that's a personal trauma to lose a sister before what should have been her time and to have a surviving niece. So that's very painful, but those stories are so necessary. We need those stories. We relate to those stories because it reminds us
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
to not miss out on the points of joy that are literally within reach. And I hope somebody hears that story and says, you know what? I'm not going to eat through my, I'm not going to watch a screen while I'm eating lunch. I'm not going to look at the television while I'm eating dinner. I'm going to sit and eat my food and be grateful that I can like taste these flavors.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
I have another day to do that. I'm going to walk my dog a longer path today instead of rushing back to watch something on my phone or to watch a movie. I'm going to live life today. It really is that reminder because we get sent so many messages that distract us away from why we're really supposed to be here.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
We're supposed to be here to enjoy our time on earth, not be distracted away from it and told to be chasing something that may never happen.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Well, I'll go through them quickly. And I ask people to look at their hands. Most people have five fingers. And the reason I picked five was for that reason. Easy to remember because you have five fingers. Most of us do. And I want you to envision that happiness is within reach and it's in our DNA. And the first step is validation, accepting how you feel no matter what. And that's good and bad.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And it's important because when human beings don't know how they feel, they're very stressed. It's almost as if you're in a dark room and something falls and it's a loud thud and you start running for the door because you don't know what it is. You turn the light on and you're like, oh, it was just like a picture frame. Like, it's not scary.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
But if you don't know what it is, if you don't know what your emotions are, it is scary. And that's why you see so many people acting out these days. You hear these stories on planes and people are just there, somebody put their seat back and they flip out as if they were being attacked, right? If we don't know how we feel, it leads to so much confusion and we make poor mistakes.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
So acknowledging and accepting how you feel is important. And that's validation, the first V. The second is venting, expressing it. And you can express your emotions in many different ways. You can do what kids do and cry, right? That's an expression of emotions. If you're an artist or performer, you can sing or you can dance. If you're someone who's more verbal, you can talk about it.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
But if you're someone who's not and you prefer writing, you can write. And some of us don't like any of the above and we pray. But expressing the emotions and venting them is important because when you imagine venting, it's a It's a term in physics. It literally means releasing the pressure in a system. So you're letting the air out so the system is under less stress.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And again, one of the points of joy in the research is feeling less stressed. Being less stressed is actually a joyful emotion. And then the third V is values. And these are things that I say they have their price list, not with the price tags. Right. In my lab, we had an event recently and we did an exercise with a beaker, a scientific beaker full of water.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And we had all of the attendees hold a rock and write on the rock something that brings them purpose and meaning in life and then put that rock into the beaker. And then we use dye to color the waters with things that are frivolous, the surface things that we tend to distract from the things that really ground us and give us meaning.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And then we put a solvent in it to get rid of the color in the water. And it was a demonstration that was powerful because it showed us that many of us, we know what our rocks are. We know what the anchors are, but we don't. Appreciate them. We let other surface things muddy the waters. And so I asked those attendees to take that rock home, keep it in your purse, your backpack, or your desk.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
But whenever you're feeling lost, remind yourself what those rocks are. John, for you, it's your family, right? For me, it's my family, my team. Don't let things get in the way of anchoring yourself to things that bring you meaning and purpose. And that could be a faith. It could be a cause you believe in, your family, your nature, things that really...
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
When you're on your deathbed, you're going to be like, I wish I had more time with those things, those people. Those are the values that I want you to tap into. And then the vitals, we only get one body and brain. I tell my daughter this every day. We use the spiritual speak, but you don't have to. But I say to her, how many bodies did God give you? And she goes, one, mommy.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And I said, what do you have to do with it? She goes, you got to take care of it. We've been doing this since she was three. And so she knows when you brush your hair, you got to brush it gently. When you take care of your skin, lather on that lotion lovingly because there's only one you.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And that sends that message that when you take care of your body and your brain, there is only one you and you're precious. You're here for a reason. But other vitals that are important are sleep, the traditional ones, and it gives sleep hygiene tips, nutrition, what we put into our bodies feeds our brain or harms our brain, movement and different ways for that.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
But I also stuck in there three non-traditional vitals, our relationship with technology, because I do believe it's going to cause a whole host of issues in the future. In the DSM-5, there's going to be a whole area for tech-related mental health issues. Our relationship to work, because as high-functioning people, we have poor work-life boundaries. And then our relationships with people.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
If you look at the Harvard studies and material on longevity, our relationships with the people in our lives, that is the number one predictor of our longevity. But we don't talk about that when we go to the doctor's office. So I included that in the vitals. And then the fifth V is vision. How do we plan joy in the future and in the present so that we don't get stuck in the past?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And that could be celebrating your small wins. Like after I do this podcast, I'm going to sit down, have a sip of water, have a snack and just be in peace. That's a win, right? After my patience for the day. I'm going to take a walk through Times Square and just enjoy. It's a sunny day in New York City. These are small wins.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Every day when I get my kid to school on time, I reward myself by having my coffee in my living room and then just enjoying because I'm a coffee snob, right? I have this delicious rum flavored. It's not real alcohol, but it's rum flavored coffee that I got from St. Martin. I love and no one interrupts my coffee time. These are small wins. Take that time and celebrate them. You deserve that.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
You're doing the best you can. But the five E's are really important because I made it accessible to everyone. You don't have to pay for them. It's not something you have to go out and buy. It's within our reach, but we just forget how to access it. And don't do all five in a day. Pick one or two. It's a reframe. How can you get one or two points of joy today? It may be more than...
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
yesterday, or maybe tomorrow you gamify and you get three, but just try to tap into one or two a day. And you should see that your life gets happier because you have reframed the idea of happiness.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
It's very important. In fact, we got rid of all of our artificial snacks in the lab to send that message to the patients and to the team that like what you put into your body is medicine. Everything you put into your body, even water has a side effect, right? People are always talking about, oh, I don't want to take meds and everything you put, sorry, into your body has a side effect.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
I'm sorry, that was my alarm. I have like maybe one or two minutes because I'm a patient. I'm sorry about that. But everything you put into your body can impact it. And so when you're eating foods that are highly processed, highly full of sugar, full of additives, that is increasing the level of inflammation in your body. And so you want to decrease the stress on the system.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Thank you for having me.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
You want to eat foods that are high in fiber, that are high in nutrients like omega-3 fatty acids, that have vitamins, because all of that adds to the science of your happiness. And that's why it's so important to know these things. Are they the cause of all these issues? No, because there's something called genetics. Things do run in families, but they're a part of it.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And there are large studies out of institutions like Harvard that show that people who have symptoms of cognitive decline or depression, when you put them on certain diets that improve their brain health, it also improves their cognitive symptoms. It improves their mood, their sleep. But it's really hard to do because,
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
If you're not in an environment where you're having someone constantly coach you and remind you, then you fall into old habits. You go for what's easy, right? The sugary foods are easy. When you're stressed, you go for those, right? You go for the fatty foods, the greasy foods. But absolutely, I do believe that nutritional psychiatry is an important component in the science of your happiness.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
We just had an event here. where we had Dr. Nate Wood, who runs the Yale Culinary Medicine Division at the Internal Medicine Center at Yale School of Medicine, talk us through the different foods to eat to decrease inflammation in the brain and to increase our joy in the brain.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
So absolutely, these are the things that you can do every day to send the message to yourself that you matter, that you are worthy of slowing down and treating your body well, because you only get one, body and brain.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Well, John, this was a delightful conversation. I really enjoy talking about the science of happiness with you. I could talk about this for days. I'm passionate about it. I truly do believe. that if we can focus on joy, I think we can change the world. And you can follow me at Dr. Judith Joseph on all the socials and on my website, drjudithjoseph.com.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
You can buy my book, High Functioning, everywhere that books are sold. I'm so excited about spreading joy and having people understand the science of happiness, understand the science of your happiness, because there is only one you. So please take care of yourself.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Oh, it was my pleasure. I enjoyed speaking with you. Thank you for having me.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Yes, it was back in 2020. I was actually giving a talk to this healthcare system and they were asking me for tools to adjust to what was happening in the world. And it was halfway through that talk that I realized that I was actually struggling. And no one knew it. On the outside, I was accomplishing incredible things. I run a research lab and we managed to stay open throughout the pandemic.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And at that time, we were like the only doctor's office still open in our building because we were doing these FDA studies that had to continue. You can't just yank people off of medications. And I had just joined this prestigious board for an Ivy league institution and was on multiple television shows, media, but no one knew that I was actually struggling.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And here I was on this call really feeling like a hypocrite because I questions coming through, well, how do we cope? What do we do? And I was just like, I feel the same way. And I, how many people are just like me? How many people are the rock? How many people have to show up for their families?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
How many people have to show up for their teams, for their loved ones and push through pain in order to appear high functioning? And why is it that in mental health, we wait for people to break down, to intervene? I thought that was a broken model.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And that led me to be curious about high functioning depression, which is not a term recognized by the medical community, but it's a term that's used quite often in therapy circles because we see it in our clients. We see our patients regularly.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
pushing through, appearing high functioning, but they have all these symptoms of depression, like poor sleep, low mood, poor concentration, feeling guilty when they don't show up for others, when they fall short because they're overwhelmed and overworking. And that busyness and restlessness that they can't sit still. If they're not busy, if they're not working, they feel restless and empty.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And something called anhedonia, which is a lack of pleasure and interest in things that they once enjoyed. And people not knowing what that is, they'll say, I feel meh, I feel blah. They don't know that's actually a symptom of depression, right? Because no one's ever talked about it.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
There are many people like that walking around with these symptoms of depression, but instead of breaking down like what we think of in terms of the classical clinical depression, they're actually over-functioning. That's how they cope. That's how they avoid dealing with their feelings. They over-function. They over-commit. They over-show up. They're constantly on the go.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
But these people are left out of the support network because their doctor says, well, come back when you're no longer functioning, then we'll do something about it. And that is a broken model. And John, we're seeing this. renaissance in physical health where people are saying, let's catch the cancer before it even develops. Let's catch the heart disease before it even develops.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Let's prevent the osteoporosis with menopause treatments and so forth before it happens. But where's this excitement for mental health? We're still in the dark ages saying, well, let's come back when you've broken down. Then we'll have to be, then we could do something about it. And I think that's a broken system.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And I think if we don't change the way we think about mental health, if we don't start shoring up and supporting those of us who are functioning, quote unquote functioning, We are losing out on an opportunity to prevent a mental health epidemic that we already know is on the horizon. It's happening already.
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
It is. The data shows that it is here. It's only getting worse.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Well, the CDC reported in, I believe it was 2023, that these numbers in this younger population, they saw the numbers of suicidality, and this is just the thinking, not the actual behavior, increasing in younger groups. In fact, one of the groups that used to be protected were young Black boys, like these are children. We're seeing those numbers going up.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And then the number of reported anxiety and depressive symptoms in these younger children, they're creeping up too. And it's no surprise because we just went through something collectively as a society that was so unpredictable, so disruptive to development, that it's no surprise that we're seeing these lingering effects.
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And after a major trauma in my work, excuse me, after a major trauma, we are supposed to make the person feel, number one, that it's not their fault. Number two, safe. And number three, they should have a routine. Well, our kids don't get that. A lot of children, if they don't have the support, they internalize what's happening. They blame themselves. It's magical thinking.
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
If I had only done X, then Z wouldn't have happened. And there was no routine for them. There was no back to a baseline for them. And that is really, I think, what's causing their development to seem somewhat arrested, that they're not able to bounce back. And there are a whole host of things in the world now that didn't exist back then.
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
They have so much access to negative information all the time. They're constantly... seeing whether or not they fit in because of social media and not being invited to certain groups. They have all this excess information that the generations before didn't have. And on top of this major collective trauma that society has endured. And also it wasn't just them. It wasn't just isolated to them.
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
It happened to their parents too. So the people that they look in a mirror for resiliency and adaptive coping mechanisms, they're suffering too. And so I think that we do have to think about depression and mental health issues differently rather than waiting for a breakdown. We have to provide people the tools
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
to recognize the signs and also the tools to cope with the stressors that they're dealing with so that they don't break down. Because if we wait, there's one psychiatrist for every 10,000 people, 30,000 in some areas. There's just not enough of us. The mental health professionals can't address this need. That's why so many of us were asked to come out of retirement during the pandemic.
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
There's just not enough of us. So let's prevent what we're seeing and give people the tools in the same way we would say, eat this and don't eat that to prevent cancer. Do this and don't do that to prevent heart disease. We need to start doing that with regards to mental health. We can't use the old system. It's just not cutting it anymore.
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
when i came to this country we had very little and there's something that i talk about and i'm very vocal about it on social media it's called scarcity trauma and people are like well is that the same thing as scarcity mindset no because mindset is just one component it's just the way that you think about things but scarcity trauma recognizes that your body will go into this fight or flight mode if you are aware
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
that you may be running out of resources or if that's even a threat. And it may not be because you've personally experienced lack of resources. It could also be that the people in your family before you or your attachment figures, the environment that you were raised in, they have that trauma, right?
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
You see this in people who have the generational trauma of having ancestors flee from a country or being oppressed and so forth and not having resources. And so my way of coping with scarcity trauma was avoiding it. And in the PTSD studies that I do, there are over like 30 symptoms of PTSD, and people don't even know that. One of the symptoms of PTSD is avoidance.
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And it's not the classic of, oh, I don't want to go to this place because it triggers a flashback, or I don't want to see this person because it will trigger a nightmare. It's the avoidance of, I don't want to deal with my pain, so I'm just going to busy myself. And I see this a lot, not just in myself, but in other people who've come from scarcity. Let's just work, work to the bone.
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
Even if we have enough in storage, it could all be taken away at any point. And a lot of people... who are high functioning, they have that scarcity trauma. They never wanna be in a position of bankruptcy again. They never wanna be in a position of needing things again. And they collect money, they collect resource, and they collect degrees.
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
You can see above me, I have so many degrees, I haven't even hung them. Some of them are in the cabinets. And I see this a lot with people who have similar backgrounds to my own. They'll continue collecting the accolades, but then it's never enough. And I found myself
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
realizing that this was happening to me when i first started therapy and my therapist pointed out this busying why do you have to be so busy why do you have to be collecting all these accolades and it wasn't a one-stop healing like i didn't go to therapy figure it out and then healed it was something that peaks and ebbs and flows in my life i go through these patterns of
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
overworking and then having to be like oh my gosh i have to be more present and stay still and then going back to that so even as a board certified psychiatrist and researcher i have to still practice tools to remind myself to slow down and when i started creating content around this People from all over the world would chime in. Oh, my grandma's Polish. And they did this because of the war.
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And I still do these things. And not just the busying, but also the behaviors like collecting things. Sometimes I look in my drawer and I'm like, well, I don't need all these ketchup packages. I'm not going to eat them. But we collect things in our lives. We create clutter. That actually creates stress. It's not just environmentally conscious, right?
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
It's not like you're hoarding Tupperware from takeout because you want to save the environment. No, because some of that takeout container has holes in it. It's this hoarding mechanism is a way to cope with this trauma of not having. And when I talk about this at public speaking engagements, people will come up to me and say, oh, my grandpa was a farmer.
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Dr. Judith Joseph on The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression | EP 616
And I grew up with having a comfortable life, but some of those behaviors from when he was a farmer, they've trickled down. Like we keep old food sometimes because we don't even know what, because in his day, the crop, he was dependent on the weather and whether or not he'd have a good season. So they'd just hold on to old foods.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And when you were revisiting those past traumas, what happened within yourself that allowed you to let that go? Because it sounds like it was a little bit of compassion and a little bit of forgiveness, but I wasn't sure of who and how that worked for you.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Yeah. And so that prolonged exposure therapy just allowed you to almost zoom out and go to like space almost and see it from different vantage points. And I'm assuming it became a little bit more separated from yourself, less personal, and you're able to let go of it at that point to then see what surfaced. I'm curious, like what surfaced for you after you were able to reconcile it?
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
That's absolutely beautiful. And it's so interesting. That's exactly what happens when we're able to overcome a lot of the things that we've gone through in the past. For you, what was that? Where did that calling come from? Who, what would you say gave you the calling or if anything?
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Yeah. So was it actually like literal scorpions and bedbugs or was it something?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Okay.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And how did you know that was related to your calling?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
So you went through like the whole Exodus that is like the locus and everything until you finally heeded the call.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Oh, that's, I would argue that's worse than most physical pain. It transcends the body and goes into an energetic level that you can't escape from. It actually will seep into, you can't even sleep it away. It'll seep into your dreams, turn into nightmares. And every single thing that you do, person you interact with reminds you of this inner civil war, so to speak for your own soul.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
The simplest way to know if you're trapped in that projection or the mirage is, are we suffering emotionally?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
there isn't like i was saying before there's a separation between going through quite painful event and then post event is there still emotional suffering beyond that and if there is then that's likely a projection that's occurring and most of the time when we are having quite a bit of anxiety depression
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
resentment anger all these things they are after something has happened or in anticipation of something that will happen very rarely in the present moment and if it is in the present moment that's something totally different and that's something that we just have to go through and is unavoidable But the majority of the time, it isn't in the actual present.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And even if it is in the present, if we go through it without the constant mental chatter, the incessant judgment of whatever's going on, then we can move through it with a little bit more ease and grace. It still might be difficult, but it's manageable. And you'll probably see how you're growing from it, if anything. But to me, I always use emotional suffering as a reminder, right?
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Not a trigger, but a reminder that I'm thinking about this event and labeling it and judging it in a certain way that's not serving me or anyone else involved. And a reminder that I can let that go at any moment. that I don't have to think about it in this negative way. And that's hard.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
It's not easy because most of our lives we've been conditioned and trained to believe that we need to think about these events in certain ways and to have an opinion about everything. But that's just not true. And all opinions do is just create separation from you and what's happening from you and the other person.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
That's what creates wars and all sorts of conflict between husband, wife, families, countries. But if we're able to suspend our opinions, then we can actually find truth. And that's where we find peace.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
We touched on it when you were discussing your calling. That's something that I would label as intuition. God, source, higher self, anything that is beyond the fight or flight, fearful mind. Another way to describe it is your heart, your soul, that still quiet, small voice, like in the back of your mind or kind of centered within your heart. That voice is always there, always guiding you.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And that's something that I love to discuss that most people don't simply because they're the predominant kind of chatter in the mind is from the mind versus the heart. And most of us pay more attention to that fight or flight mind because it's louder, because it's seemingly more alarming, it's urgent. While the still quiet voice is just that, it's very quiet.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
You don't really notice it, it's in the background, gently nudging you in the direction that you know you wanna go. And it's never urgent. That's the thing, it never uses scare tactics or anything like that. It doesn't try to coerce you into any actions, but it will gently guide at all times and is there when you need it.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
So that intuition is, some concrete examples would be, it's that voice that told you to go ask this person out that eventually became
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
your lifelong partner it's that voice that told you to move to this place and then when you move there miraculously you found your dream job or the your best friend or something like that it told you to go to college or leave college to leave a marriage to start a marriage that voice is anything but logic every time we make one of those major life decisions if you think back to some of the biggest decisions you ever made in your life that radically changed it for the better
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
That was probably not logical. Everyone said you shouldn't do it. Your parents said you shouldn't do it. Even your friends said you shouldn't do it. Yet you did it anyway. And that's exactly what you wanted. And it yielded some miraculous things that you couldn't even have anticipated. That's intuition because it operates in the land of the unknown.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Logic operates in the land of the known, which can only use the past to predict what it thinks it can happen in the future.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
but it can't just go completely into the unknown but it's only in the unknown that something different can happen instead of what's already happened in the past and it's just a repeat of that so that's where logic and intuition will look like they are opposing forces and some people i always got this confused too because sometimes you'll think logic is just like thinking about something rationally and objectively but those are a little bit different but in any case at the end of the day we're trying to operate our lives and optimize for joy peace and love
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
all of which are not really logical. What's logical is making a life for yourself, getting a good job, rising through the ranks, making good money, starting a family, and then just retire, and that's it. That's logical. But how many times when we follow that path are we actually fulfilled?
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
doing what society says, doing what our parents says, doing what our community wants us to do, becoming the person that everyone else wants us to be, but we know that we're not, living up to and trying to uphold those expectations and opinions about ourselves from other people. That very rarely creates a life that we love, and if anything, suffocates who we really are.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
But as soon as we let all that go, we discover... this deep sense of peace and start to peel back the layers of who we're not to find out who we are. And that really starts with following your intuition and going against the grain, so to speak. Following your intuition is really the path to peace. And everyone has to pave their own path in that regard.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
We can't follow someone else and expect it to be the exact same as them because we don't want the same things as them. So that's what I discovered between logic and intuition and really following our hearts. More times than not, that's going to yield a much more joyful life.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And those are more important questions to ask rather than can I be successful or not? Because then you have to really redefine what success means for you. And that's the point in which you can start to turn the tables and carve and pave a different path for yourself.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
As soon as the parents don't feel enough worth, they're going to make their kids feel like that too, to make them work for approval, for praise, for love. And that's how the parents believe that the child can grow up to become quote unquote successful. But is success worth it if the person is not happy? not at peace?
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And it only takes one person to hear that message for it to be worth it. Right. A lot of times we kind of scare ourselves out of doing something simply because We don't think we can make it that big or that successful or anything like that. But to me, the way I approached writing my book was if it helped me, then it already is worth it because I can be that person that I can help.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And if I can help just one other person, then that would be worth all the struggle because you never really know what the impact of one person is. It could be the next person that cures cancer. It could be the next person that finds and facilitates world peace. We never know. And the impact of one person is so great.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
It's seemingly infinite because every person in our lives knows that around a thousand people or something like that, a thousand people knowing another thousand people, like it just magnifies and you're really ever a couple of degrees away from the whole world. So I never take one soul very lightly. That's a huge deal and it's always worth it.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
So the question of how do we help the next generation always begins with ourselves. It's odd because you would think to go directly to the kids and that's where we can have a lot of the impact. But in actuality, who we become, like who we are surrounded by the most, which the kids are around their parents the most and how they learn best is modeling.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
So when we're discussing this, actually the best way to help the next generation is actually to help the parents and to help the parents that are looking for these answers that want to create a better future, not only for themselves, but for their children and of course, therefore the world. And so I always try to focus there because it ripples very quickly if that's the case.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And it really begins with questioning the mind like we've been talking about this whole entire time. Once the parents are able to learn how to emotionally regulate, and calm the nervous system, they're able to become so much more better, significantly better parents. And they're able to raise their kids with compassion, with love, with understanding.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And when they're able to show that to their kids, the kids are then able to show that to other people. And when they grow up, then they're most likely going to have a lot less trauma to have to work through. And therefore the world becomes better because of that. But it's true that the rising generation is going to feel the brunt of this.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And the reason why the kids are being raised to feel this way is from the parents. So if we can work with the parents who are a little bit more cognitively developed, have the capacity to be able to understand these things, that's where it can all start. Kids honestly are innately born with not really caring about what other people think.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
They'll just go run around the backyard, play with their imagination and wear all sorts of crazy things, dress up and have all sorts of dreams. And it isn't until that they grow up that those things are beat out of them. And that's because of the adults. So that's where I think the source of it is. I think actually new parents are probably a fantastic focus because they're probably the most open.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
They're looking for ways to raise their kids, looking for better ways, at least, than the previous parents and the previous generations. So that would be a fantastic place to begin. And I think you're doing a fantastic job of that by giving people this information that is quite literally life-changing when heeded.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
I told you how difficult it is. It really is. And that's the point in which the best time for someone to change is when things are already changing. So when someone becomes a parent, everything's flipped. Their routines are out of order. There's pure chaos. There's no order. They're looking for footing. They're looking for a foundation. This is when...
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
They're not really looking at themselves as much anymore, but looking after someone else. And so they're constantly learning and trying to figure this out. But it is really hard as a new parent, especially in this world, right? Do you give your kid the iPad or not? And how do you entertain them without any technology and all these things? So that would be a pivotal point for sure.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
That's the future right there.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
That's exactly it. Because again, like with the exposure from the kids, they're just going to model the parents. So even if we teach the kids, there's such a strong force from the parents that it's very difficult to undo unless you start from the source there. But it's a fantastic opportunity for parents. I became a new parent recently, so that's why I'm speaking to it more specifically.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Thank you. And one of the ways that I'm approaching it is. when we have a new child, we can approach it with a lens of this is the opportunity for me to parent in the way that I wish I was parented, right? Undo all of those past traumas, giving myself the things that I wish I had, but now to my child.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And that in itself is healing my own inner child while giving our child now exactly what they need, hopefully at least, right? And I'm sure that's going to be a lot better than the alternatives, but it starts there. And seeing that And like creating a whole new belief system that we inherently have worth, that we don't really have to do anything to earn that.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And it's simply because we exist, that we're human. Anything that exists has that inherent value in it and you don't have to do anything to earn it. And in giving them that, that's essentially what unconditional love is. And if a child grows up in that environment, they'll flourish because they're not trying to do things to earn your own approval, to earn your praise, to earn your love.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And when a child isn't optimizing for those things, they can truly be themselves and not be afraid that if they mess up, that you won't love them anymore. Or if they don't listen to you, then they won't have food on the table or something like that. So making the child feel safe, which in turn will make you feel safe because that's all you really care about in this moment.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
We'll start to heal everyone. And it's a powerful position to have. And you have a lot more influence than you think as a parent and to your child as well. So it really starts there and undoing all of that. So that's what I'm hoping to be able to transfer to mine, right?
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
That unconditional love and allowing them to explore completely unfiltered without any restraints, as long as it's not really like life threatening, which most things aren't. If they look too silly, if they're embarrassing me, like that doesn't matter anymore. I'd rather them be kids for as long as possible. And for me not to pry all of that out of them.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And I think doing less is probably going to be doing a lot more in this case.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Well, I was, to give you some context, I was born and raised Catholic as well, and went to Catholic school for a little bit. And my dad wanted to be a Catholic priest. And then he met my mom and I even at one point wanted to be totally get it.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Oh yeah.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Oh yeah. I visited like the seminary. I was there bunking with the priests. Like it was deep. It was deep. My parents are still Catholic. I don't particularly identify with any particular religion, but deeply honor and respect every single one of them and learn a universe of information through each and every single one of them. So I absolutely love them.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
and think that they're all trying to help people right they're all just different rows of the same destination long story short yes like i i definitely know that it was definitely i was raised in more of a fear-based environment because of that catholicism is a little bit more fear-based than other christian faiths yeah like you can't sin and if you do sin you have to go confess and then even if you do confess you're still a sinner anyway you still have to earn your worth and prove yourself that you can get to heaven doing these certain things and kind of like no matter how much you do it's you still have to do more
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
So that's a lot for a child, right, to have to grow up in. And it's like, then you start to internalize, no matter what I do, I'm not enough. That's how the child learns it, because the parents learn that, because the parents are still going through that same thing of, I still have to do way more than what I'm doing now to earn my place in heaven or in society or wherever it is.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
As soon as the parents don't feel enough worth, they're going to make their kids feel like that too, to make them work for approval, for praise, for love. And that's how the parents believe the child can grow up to become quote unquote successful. But is success worth it if the person is not happy? not at peace? And those are more important questions to ask rather than can I be successful or not?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Because then you have to really redefine what success means for you. And that's the point in which you can start to turn the tables and carve and pave a different path for yourself. But yeah, like a lot of parents, it's really difficult, but parents can start to not try to live their dreams through their child.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
I think that'll probably help a lot in allowing the child to become who they want to be rather than what you want them to be. even if you think it's the best for them, right? Ultimately, we don't know what's best for ourselves or we don't know what's best for other people, but we do have an idea of what would create a more joyful and abundant life for ourselves.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
But to try to impose it on someone else would be taking away their own autonomy, including if that's our own kids. But that's something that I would want to do. And if my kids grow up and they're like, I want to do something completely different than what you want me to do, Then I've done my job as a parent, right? I taught them to question things, to think for themselves, to trailblaze.
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Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And if that's something completely different from me, then that's perfect. And that's for me to work through on my own, but not for my kids to have to work through.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And that's what you want as a parent, right? To just be closer to your kids. But the more that we try to control them, the less that they want to open up. So it's a very interesting paradox, but it is, that is exactly how it is. The more you let go, the closer that they'll feel to you and you to them. And that's because you're allowing them to be who they are. And that's beautiful.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And you've already created that change in one generation. So, you know, now that now they have a great example for when they have kids.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Yeah, I'll give a quick example and then go through a framework that can help. And that's what I've personally used. And then a lot of people who have read the book, hundreds of thousands of people at this point have used to be able to find a little bit more peace in their lives.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
The first thing is to realize and ask yourself the question, how often has overthinking helped or even solved the situation that I'm going through right now? Is this thinking actually useful? And once you start asking yourself that question, you'll start to realize that it's almost never helped and actually has made things significantly worse.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And so understanding that will allow you to make a mental note for yourself that whatever I'm doing now is the overthinking, the constant belief in the anxious thoughts. These things are just holding me back from being able to find what I want in life, which is more peace and joy.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And I also love asking the question of when you are the most stressed out in your life, how much thinking is going on in that moment?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
probably a lot and if you flip the question when you are the happiest think about a time that you were your happiest or in a state of flow how much thinking was going on during that time how much mental chatter or judgment it's probably none or very little and just from those two questions alone that helped me realize that
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
It is my thinking, my judgment of whatever I'm going through, or even my own thoughts or myself is what's causing my suffering. So just understanding that alone will, it gives us the sort of permission and reassurance that we can let this go because it hasn't been helpful at all. And that the times that we were happiest in our lives were when we weren't thinking or thinking very little.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Then it begs the question of how do you navigate life if you're not thinking? So when I say thinking, I specifically define it as the negative judgment of anything. Negative judgment of our thoughts, ourselves, other people, events, situations. That negative judgment of whatever it is, is the root cause of suffering.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And to suspend that is to create space for peace because most of the time, like 80, 90% of all the stuff that's going in our minds is this negative judgment. And that's the story that we keep reliving. So understanding that gives you that opportunity. And so now we can get into the framework of how to actually let go of this thinking. And this framework is called PAWS.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
So that's also in the book as well. And it's an acronym. So the first letter is P, which is pause and take deep breaths. And what this allows you to do is to ground yourself into the present moment because you can't take a deep breath in the past. You can't take a deep breath in the future. You can only take it in the present moment. And that's where peace resides.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
It doesn't reside in the past or the future. Anxiety lives in the future and resentment lives in the past. So pause and take deep breaths and try to breathe with your whole body. Most of us have very shallow breaths because we're in a hyperactive overstimulated state, fight or flight mode. And so our breaths are very shallow.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And when we go through a lot of anxiety, our breath gets shallower and shallower. When people are going through panic attacks, the breath gets very short. But the first thing they say when someone's going through a panic attack is what? Take deep breaths. So this is the process that we can go through. This is like somatic therapy. So take deep breaths.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
The next letter in the acronym is A, which is ask yourself, is this thinking useful? If it isn't, And the next letter is U, which is understand that you can let it go, that you don't have to continue overthinking and that you have the choice and the agency and autonomy to say, I no longer want to think in this way. I no longer want to negatively judge these things. And I choose to let it go.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Thank you so much. It means a lot. And to me, I was more so just sharing my own journey and just all the mental and emotional suffering that I was personally going through and what helped me. And so I'm just very grateful that it resonates with other people and it confirms that I'm also human and other people are too, and that we're not really alone. So it's a blessing.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And that's U. That's P-A-U and an S is say and repeat the mantra. You can use any mantra. I specifically love the mantra of thinking is a root cause of suffering. And you can use something else like I let go and choose peace as a mantra. But you can use anything that allows you to feel more grounded.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And it needs to be rooted in some sort of truth so that when you're saying it in your own mind, not only are you focusing the mind on the mantra specifically, but you're also anchoring yourself in some sort of truth. It could be anything, right? But truth is what matters. So in that case, that's going to be S. And then just repeat that mantra for about however long that you need.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And the next letter is S. E, which is experience your emotions fully without resistance. And a lot of times people think that when you let go of your thinking, you're bypassing your emotions. And that's not true. What this does is it allows you to experience your emotions without judgment.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
When you allow your emotions to be there and take up space and to be seen without being judged, labeled as something negative, then it actually passes a lot more quickly than you anticipate. What we resist persists and what we let be will inevitably leave. And this is specifically for our emotions. So most of us believe that quote unquote negative emotions are bad, but they're actually not bad.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
They're all messengers and trying to teach you something. All emotions are doorways to the present moment. And that's how I use them is every time I experience some sort of quote unquote negative emotion, I use it as a little kind of like reminder that I'm not in the present. I'm thinking in the future or in the past, I'm judging, I'm labeling something.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
I'm negatively, I have a negative opinion about this thing. So that's what I use to come back into the present moment and to release that judgment. And that's how I'm able to go through this whole entire process. But that process is very specific and just try that. If anything, if that's a lot to remember,
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
just repeat the mantra and take deep breaths and try that whenever you are experiencing any sort of negative emotion. And you don't even have to believe anything that I'm saying at all. The best way to see for yourself is to try it and to experiment and to see if it works for you. And just try it for the next seven days. Try to suspend negative judgments.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And whenever you do experience any negative emotions, repeat some sort of mantra, like thinking is the root cause of suffering, or I let go and choose peace until you're able to regulate your emotions, come back to center and then see how you feel. And if it doesn't work, not a problem.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
You can go and try to find another modality and keep searching until you find that perfect combination of things that works for you. And if it does work, that's amazing. And just prolong the experiment for yourself and see how it goes. But seven days is more than enough for you to be able to see the effects.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
There's a part of a notebook within the expanded edition of the book, which is available on Amazon or most bookstores now in the U S but there is another workbook that I have separately. I think that's called healing anxiety and overthinking and that's on Amazon as well. It isn't, I don't think it goes through the exact pause framework, but it goes through something very similar.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
I just made it into a pause framework in the expanded edition to make it a little bit simpler and easier for people to remember.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
That's a great question. One of the things that I would say is to really examine what the predominant thinking is. There's a lot of thinking that's going on, right? Like blaming ourselves, blaming the boss, blaming other people. What is the one that feels most visceral?
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And then we can tackle it from there because it's very difficult when you're swarmed with a thousand different thoughts at the same moment. And then figure out
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
where that comes from like why are you believing this particular thought and is that particular thought helping you in this moment what would happen if you suspended that judgment for a few moments what would happen to the story how does the story change if you suspend the judgment what questions can you ask yourself and the other person to find out something a little bit closer to the truth because whenever there's a story there's multiple sides
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Yeah.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
So we only know one side, which is her story right now. We don't know the boss's side. We don't know the co-worker's side or anything. We have no idea. But becoming a lot more curious than fearful or resentful is probably going to help a lot more. That's where I would start and then go through the framework from there and doing some deep breathing.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
I would say be very aware of your judgments, particularly the ones that destroy you most. And actually, what I started to realize too when I started to inquire about my own thoughts is that the judgments that we place on ourselves or even on other people in the world aren't even our own.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
It usually comes from other people, mainly our parents, our friends, our coworkers, people we were closest with. And the mental chatter that we say to ourselves that really beat ourselves up and create the suffering, all those things are most likely things that someone has said to us before, and we just replay them in our own minds. So the thoughts that we think are ours aren't even really ours.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
There is just a broken record that we've been hanging on to for years and years. And as soon as you begin to become aware of that, of what is actually someone else's thoughts and what is mine, and do I even need to keep any of these things and to believe in them, then you can start to break some of the shackles and the grip that it has on our lives.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And that is very empowering to understand that we don't have to believe everything we think anymore, that we don't have to continually overthink, and that at any moment we have the power to let that go and to come back into our hearts. That is the most... freeing thing that we can experience. And it doesn't require changing anything external. It actually just requires letting go.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
We don't even have to change ourselves for that matter. But once we start to have a little bit more compassion for ourselves, then we inevitably change as a byproduct and shed all these layers and walls that we've been putting up to protect ourselves after all these years. And then a little bit of our own light starts to break through some of those cracks. And that's a source of joy.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And that's what I found in my life. And readers have been able to find that for themselves as well. So that's what I would say is to become very cautious of, very skeptical of our own judgments and our own mind.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Thank you so much for saying that, John. It's truly, again, such an honor of being here and thank you for sharing your story and opening up. And I think that created a lot of space for a lot of people to do the same. And they've clearly done so by the person writing to you and things like that. So thank you for all you do and for sharing your light with the world.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
That's such a beautiful story. And thank you so much for opening up about that, because I feel like many people do reach that point where they set out certain goals for themselves, achieve it, and then just quickly forget about the goal that they used to have. And all that they're focusing on now is how unfulfilled they are. And they don't really want to admit that
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
after achieving what they wanted it was nothing that they had imagined and it's probably worse off than before they started which was my case specifically and that's very hard to share because you can just go into the comparison cycle and say oh there's so many more people that are way worse off even with not even talking about their world countries but within the same country like there's so many different people that don't have as much as
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
I do or we do. And who am I to complain about where I am? So I think there's a lot of this suppression of this lack of fulfillment and resentment and anger and anxiety that a lot of us don't want to share. And it's quite difficult to share because then everyone starts attacking each other and saying, I have it worse than you. But I think if we
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
are able to have the courage to open up then and come from a place of non judgment and more so compassion versus comparison, then I think most people would be able to find a little more peace in their lives and be able to support each other.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Yeah, that's beautiful. And luckily, we don't have to go into a spaceship and go to the ISS in orbit to be able to have a similar effect. We can just do that within our minds, which is quite nice.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
Yeah, this is a great question. There's a couple of ways that I look at this. Number one is I believe that most people have to try a myriad of different things before they come across certain things that really click for them. So in that regard, I always encourage people to keep trying to keep going because it's usually not in just one modality that you find what you're looking for.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
It's actually a combination of things. And that's actually what creativity is, right? There's very few things are actually original in this world. They're mostly just a remix of each other, even us as humans. Our DNA is not original.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
It's from our parents that combined and then created us, which looks unique on the surface, but then it's really, you can look at the source and see that it's, oh, it's from somewhere else. In the same way, I think that's how we can come to our own solutions and discovering something that works for us in terms of finding peace and more joy.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
For me in my journey, I tried a lot of different things like you were mentioning. So CBT, like cognitive behavioral therapy. I tried energy work, Reiki. I tried doing a lot of shadow work, so like Jungian, things like that. Also, like I did acupuncture, went into like more of the Eastern side. I started studying Zen, Buddhism, and Western philosophies as well, philosophers and like stoicism.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
All those things were absolutely amazing and definitely were stepping stones in my journey. Then I even studied Dr. Joe Dispenza, went into a meditation retreat for seven days in Cancun, which was phenomenal as well. And what's interesting is that even after I came back after the seven-day retreat, we were meditating for three, four, five hours a day, waking up at 4 a.m., meditating on the beach.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
What's so interesting is during those meditations, I felt pure bliss. So it was amazing. But then as soon as I opened my eyes and came back into the real world, so to speak, how to go to work or start working my business, whatever it was at the time, all of the anxiety came flooding back. So I would just relapse back into that constant state of fight or flight. So that was very odd for me.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And it wasn't until I started to question like, what is it in those modalities? Because almost every single one of them worked. to a certain extent, and then they stopped working. So basically the life span, or at least the benefits of the modality only worked while I was practicing it.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
So that's when I asked myself the question of what about the modalities allowed me to feel that, that sense of peace. And then is it possible to feel that beyond the modality? And that's when I realized that it was more so rooted in my mind than anything else. Once I was isolated, like I always say this too, I think it's
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
relatively simpler to find peace if you become a monk and go into the middle of the mountains in a dark cave and no one's bothering you and you're completely isolated from the external world it's probably a little bit easier to find peace there but the real challenge is can you find that same level of peace when you're in rush hour in new york right or when you're talking with your family and they don't understand your decisions and you're constantly trying to defend yourself that those are the moments where you're really tested
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
that will prove to you whether the modality works or not. So for me, it was more so questioning, what is it in my mind that's causing me to go back into this vicious cycle of overthinking and anxiety and suffering? That's when I was able to find out that the constant judgment of my own thoughts and the events and circumstances that I'm going through
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
was the root of all of the anxiety that i had although some of the events were you could say and label as painful that won't change but the emotional suffering tied to that event after it happened is something that i was doing to myself after the fact the ruminating on what happened wishing it were different or being angry at someone for doing something back then anything that happens post event that becomes a creation of our mind through the judgment of ourselves others or the world
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
That particular observation was what broke me free and allowed me to just see it as it is instead of constantly narrating what's going on and being okay with, okay, this is what happened. Is this thinking actually helping me in the moment? Is it useful? And I just never realized that I could just stop thinking about it. That just never occurred to me.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
It was just, I always thought I had to solve it before it would go away, but you can't solve the past. That's the issue. And so once I realized that and I could let it go and then come from a place of groundedness and more so love, that's what I can do in the present moment. And that can then therefore change my future. But that's always through the present moment. But that's what broke it for me.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
And I'm so grateful that it happened. And now a lot of the book, that's exactly what I explained. And a lot of people are able to now break through the mirage, as you would say, and find a little bit more peace from the incessant chatter.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
How to Build a Mental Health Ecosystem That Honors Who You Are w/John R. Miles | EP 615
What I've found is that when you see people who are over-functioning, a lot of times it's not just them. It has been contagious. It spreads to their families. It spreads to their team. It spreads even to their pets, right? Everyone's not happy. There's a lack of joy. The anhedonia spreads to the ecosystem.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
How to Build a Mental Health Ecosystem That Honors Who You Are w/John R. Miles | EP 615
But if you can retrain yourself and start to engage in being present, slowing down and accessing life the way you should... then that spreads as well. So you can actually reverse things if you're mindful and intentional about it.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
The Lens Method: A New Way to Reframe Your Inner World | EP 612
As soon as the parents don't feel enough worth, they're going to make their kids feel like that too, to make them work for approval, for praise, for love. And that's how the parents believe that the child can grow up to become quote unquote successful. But is success worth it if the person is not happy? not at peace.
Passion Struck with John R. Miles
The Lens Method: A New Way to Reframe Your Inner World | EP 612
And those are more important questions to ask rather than can I be successful or not? Because then you have to really redefine what success means for you. And that's the point in which you can start to turn the tables and carve and pave a different path for yourself.