Joseph Cox

You know, that's basically parallel construction. It's very complicated. It gets very nuanced. But I do think that civil libertarians would be a little bit aghast at sort of the trade-offs that were being made on a daily basis.

Like licensing Anom and stuff. So the deal itself is between AFGU and the US authorities and got paid something like $120,000 and then $60,000 for travel expenses, I think is how it's phrased in some of the documents. But Anom basically became an FBI tech company. From what I've been told from people with direct involvement, you know, the FBI was picking up the bill.

Like licensing Anom and stuff. So the deal itself is between AFGU and the US authorities and got paid something like $120,000 and then $60,000 for travel expenses, I think is how it's phrased in some of the documents. But Anom basically became an FBI tech company. From what I've been told from people with direct involvement, you know, the FBI was picking up the bill.

They were paying for infrastructure. They were paying for hardware, Android hardware for the phones, for the app to be flashed on. They were running a tech company. And I think that's just the craziest thing here. And beyond that, they were running a tech company for criminals.

They were paying for infrastructure. They were paying for hardware, Android hardware for the phones, for the app to be flashed on. They were running a tech company. And I think that's just the craziest thing here. And beyond that, they were running a tech company for criminals.

So yeah, I've spoken to people who actually coded the app and basically made the phone. And these were completely ordinary developers. One I spoke to, who I call, has hit in the book. I used a different name just to protect their identity. But they found a freelancing gig online about the secure communications app.

So yeah, I've spoken to people who actually coded the app and basically made the phone. And these were completely ordinary developers. One I spoke to, who I call, has hit in the book. I used a different name just to protect their identity. But they found a freelancing gig online about the secure communications app.

They get involved and they're doing normal coding like they've done a million times before for an Android app. And what they're told is that... We make this app and we sell it to businesses. We sell it to corporations to protect their communications.

They get involved and they're doing normal coding like they've done a million times before for an Android app. And what they're told is that... We make this app and we sell it to businesses. We sell it to corporations to protect their communications.

And as part of that, companies like to be able to audit their messages, you know, and that's very common in banking, very common in finance, all of that sort of thing for legal reasons.

And as part of that, companies like to be able to audit their messages, you know, and that's very common in banking, very common in finance, all of that sort of thing for legal reasons.

Yeah, I mean, Customs and Border Protection, part of DHS, they use Wicker, the encrypted app that many people will be familiar with. But they use an enterprise or government version, which, yes, it's encrypted, but it has that extra archiving function. And the... Developers of Anom, that's what they thought they were building.

Yeah, I mean, Customs and Border Protection, part of DHS, they use Wicker, the encrypted app that many people will be familiar with. But they use an enterprise or government version, which, yes, it's encrypted, but it has that extra archiving function. And the... Developers of Anom, that's what they thought they were building.

They thought they were building a communications platform for businesses to, yes, talk somewhat securely, but have the messages archived. So then, for whatever reason, the administrator can go through them at a later date. That's what they thought they were doing. What they weren't told was that the phones are being sold to criminals and the archiving feature is actually for the FBI.

They thought they were building a communications platform for businesses to, yes, talk somewhat securely, but have the messages archived. So then, for whatever reason, the administrator can go through them at a later date. That's what they thought they were doing. What they weren't told was that the phones are being sold to criminals and the archiving feature is actually for the FBI.

AFGU left that bit out when telling the developers about that. And I mean, just very briefly on that, the compartmentalization that AFGU did, I think is very interesting, as in there were the people designing the app, and they were sort of in their own silo. There were then people making the custom fork of Graphene OS, the Android operating system, and there was those people.

AFGU left that bit out when telling the developers about that. And I mean, just very briefly on that, the compartmentalization that AFGU did, I think is very interesting, as in there were the people designing the app, and they were sort of in their own silo. There were then people making the custom fork of Graphene OS, the Android operating system, and there was those people.

And then somewhere else, there were the criminal resellers on the ground. And these groups never really communicated with one another. And I'm surprised it didn't leak. To be perfectly honest, I'm genuinely surprised, but somehow it managed to stay a secret, at least for a long time.

And then somewhere else, there were the criminal resellers on the ground. And these groups never really communicated with one another. And I'm surprised it didn't leak. To be perfectly honest, I'm genuinely surprised, but somehow it managed to stay a secret, at least for a long time.

The phones start popping up in Europe, and that's when broadly sort of the Swedish police get involved, and then also the Dutch. They are the two main European agencies that first come forward, because that's simply where the phones are ending up. And obviously the AFP doesn't really have jurisdiction. over Sweden or the Netherlands.