Joanna Robinson
Appearances
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and piña colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Off Tanya's millions.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Yeah, that's a good point. You make a good point. I feel like you can either like charge it to the room or charge it to your card is sort of a thing. So like this. OK, good question. Let's let's keep the emails going. If you were in the hotel industry, if you went to Cornell, let us know what the deal is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
There's a lot of reasons why people do it. This is something we brought up in last week's discussion of White Lotus. We were noting that Piper was listening to an audio book and reading at the same time. And Rob and I were asking, hey, is this something people do? And we got a resounding, yes, this is something people do. Some of it has to do with neurodivergence or ADHD and stuff like that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Here's the sort of big bucket that I want to put our character-by-character analysis in, and it is this question of identity. To go back to the immersive reading moment with Piper, what she was reading about this idea of identity as a prison, as a concept inside of... I think that's... If we're thinking about this show as a potential for spiritual awakening...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
for these ridiculous people they're ridiculous people but some of them might have a spiritual awakening of some kind rick certainly seems like you know to get something question mark out of his therapy session inside of this episode so you can agree or disagree we can talk about that in a second but something that you know you mentioned what we've seen in other seasons of white lotus this idea of identity is a prison i feel like there's two outcomes from your state three outcomes from your stay white lotus one is you go home in a body bag um okay
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
The other two are you break free from something, you have a transcendent experience that radically changes your relationship, your family dynamics, and like that. And then the other one, and the one we've seen a couple times that is the hardest for me to watch is... almost like a cementing of yourself inside of something tough.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I think about I'll be in season two inside of that family where he was like the different one differently could break the, the, the sort of generational philandering thing that was happening in his family. But in the final, final sequence, In White Lotus season two, we see grandfather, father, son all turn their head to Ogle Woman as she walks by.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
And the implication is just like Albie's just going to be just like his dad and his grandfather, certainly. Rachel in season one, Rachel is played by Alexander Daddario. And we're like, leave Shane. He's the worst. There she is, just cozied up with Shane at the end of the season.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
So this idea of, like, can you break out of this identity bucket that you've been put in, or are you just going to sort of further nestle yourself into the role that's been designed for you? So...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
how does this apply in your view when you're thinking about the rat lifts and you're thinking about like Lachlan on the verge of trying to make a decision Piper sort of exploring something else um Saxon wanting to be just like his dad but not knowing that this thing is coming for his dad like how do you think of this idea of identity as it pertains to those characters
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
But there's a million different reasons to do it. And I should have known. That the great multitaskers of the world, the podcast listeners out there would would have this skill on lockdown. So thank you for all of your emails about that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I have provided this for you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Killing it, Pam. Killing it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
yeah it's such an interesting gender split inside of that family you've got like the women the the unc women and the the duke men and locky sort of like in the middle between the two um and you're right sort of like posturing more masculine by rigid definitions posturing more masculine when he's with piper and then more submissive feminine if you want to say it that way when he's around um saxon
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
We got an email that people thought it was interesting that Piper and Saxon and Lachlan don't have any trace of an accent. Generationally, to me, that does not ping very strange. They were like, wouldn't they have the faintest whiff of a Tobacco Road sort of accent? I don't know. I don't know how in our constantly online monoculture state how accents are
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I've never been around drunk Rob. Does your accent come out when you have had some free beverages from the minibar? I don't think so. Okay. Yeah. How about when you go back home?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Yeah. Get out your texts. We'll be starting on page 12.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
um i have a friend from arkansas who you would not know is from arkansas until he gets four drinks in it's wild okay uh let's talk about rick our guy rick um We got an email from I got baited in the email and I could not resist taking the bait.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Blake wrote in on Shakespeare Corner and he pointed out that Rick says nothing comes from nothing, which is a pretty famous and important line from King Lear.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
said by lear to his daughter cordelia when she refuses to lather him with praise like her other two sisters could this be a little clue to suggest that jim hollinger is in fact rick's dad and then he potentially cut rick out of some kind of inheritance after an act of quote disrespect much like lear did to cordelia love a shakespeare corner thanks so much blake um i to me i will say inside of the session when rick is is talking to amarita about his dad
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
That sounded genuine to me. Whatever is true about Jim Hollinger, I believe that Rick thinks his dad is dead and not in the, like, Anakin Skywalker died so Darth Vader could live.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. What do you think about Rick's dad and Jim Hollinger and what we've learned so far?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Okay. You don't think this is personal vengeance?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Correct. We're here to talk to you about season three, episode two of White Lotus. And this is, I guess, what we're calling kind of the deep dive where Rob and I a couple days after the immediate aftermath pods that Mallory, Bill and I are doing on Sunday nights where we're just sort of vibing and talking about things we liked and.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Yeah, I just I watched that. I watched that interaction through a few times. And to me, it rings as true to him, though I agree with you that he does not want to be there. I believe that he believes what he's saying there. Whether or not he's saying it in an intentionally provocative way to try to get out of that session is its own thing. But in terms of that identity, bigger identity question...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
You think it's professional. I still tend to think it's personal vengeance of some kind. And the thing that I'm focused on with Rick is he seems like he's on a like that Chelsea is pulling him to do one thing, which is like, have fun, work on yourself.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Be here now. Be present. You have issues. Please work through them. Please be here with me. So that's like one force pulling on him. And then there's this other thing pulling on him. And, you know, from your point of view, it's professional. From my point of view, it's personal and vengeful. But either way, it feels like to me the Chelsea path is the better path, is the right path.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
And it's up in the air to me at this point. Whether Rick is going to be one of those characters where we are disappointed that he couldn't break out of either his professional gig as a hitman? Is that what you're saying? Professional hitman?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
It doesn't seem good, right? Whatever it is, it doesn't seem like, okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
You just love him as an outlaw. I understand. I really do understand.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
And Mallory's baffling and enduring crush on Patrick Schwarzenegger's character. All of that sort of stuff is in the mix. And a couple days later, Rob and I get your emails. We look at Reddit. We read interviews with people. And we dig into some corners of the episode. So, yeah, we got a lot of emails, too. Rob, where can folks contact us for this episode?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
there's genuine affection and connection there when she runs to him after the robbery, the connection that they have in bed, like all of that stuff feels genuine. Like there is affection there. There is a potential there for Rick to make a choice. It seems like to me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
And I don't know which way he's going to go. And can he, can he, The identity of Chelsea's boyfriend is much better to me than whatever else he's facing in terms of like, you know, son, a child of tragedy or all these other things that are hanging over him that truly did happen to him. But can you escape whatever, you know, trap that is for yourself and choose something else?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
But some break out.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
So it's like, so what's going to happen here? And the way I see it is like, You know, there's do I go? It seems like there's a do I go to Bangkok and pursue Jim Hollinger there or do I stay here at the White Lotus with Chelsea?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Yep. I think so.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I'm worried for you, Rick. OK, let's talk about. Someone objected to us calling them the Blonde Blob, but again, that is what Mike White called them. You can go with Fancy Cougars, which is Bill's, or Bill has started calling them just the Fancies, if you prefer. The Fancies has softened a little bit. Yeah, exactly.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I think that's so true. In Kara's email, she pointed out certain cases like the fact that Leighton Meester had to dye her hair brunette to be to play opposite Blake Lively and stuff like that. So, yeah, there's often a we can't have two blondes, we can't have three brunettes, something like that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
couldn't possibly do it okay so on the one hand that is true and i love that point i'm glad you brought that up on the other hand inside of their blonde loveliness yeah i was thinking about this is you know you're slightly younger than me there's there's this like early era of internet did you ever watch teen girl squad is that ever something that came across your transom no joe those words mean nothing to me what is teen girl squad it's like early
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
early internet uh like cartoon sketchery but teen girl squad which is genuinely great and i think about all the time if the intro would be like the pretty one the ugly one what's her face so and so um and so um This idea that like the Blonde Blob, despite their blobbiness, have these set roles that perhaps they played.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Jacqueline was always the face is something that they talked about earlier, right? Like there are distinct roles inside of their friendships that they've always had. And what is challenged inside of this episode when Valentin does his thing, which is tell the women the same thing. what does that do to Jacqueline?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Well, nothing, nothing gets between friends like data, Joe, like metrics, like body fat percentage. So like Jacqueline having to consider that Lori could be compared to her. Yeah. Is as you said, devastating to Jacqueline. So these identities inside of their same demo are,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Jacqueline's power as the pretty one the face is so important to her and it is personally devastating to her to have that challenge and it makes me think about like when you think about Tim Ratliff or Jacqueline Lemon here they're the power that protects them I'm the rich provider I'm the hot TV star also the provider who's paying for this trip for the most part Exactly. It's so brittle.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
It's so fragile. And like what happens when it cracks or is exploded?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Does it have to be a monkey literally picks up a gun or can it be a monkey spooks, startles, attacks someone and the ensuing shootout is sort of incited by a monkey? In other words, if a monkey is involved in the shootout.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
yeah um there's also a question i don't know the answer to it but there's the question i think we got some emails about this i've seen floating around this idea of like new money versus old money oh yeah like it's kate new money and victoria is definitely old money so there's just sort of like this and jacklyn's new money too and oh hence why she's a prostitute yeah
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
It's like just a drop. You barely made me any money.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
So for the love of coffee, go try them now. Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
yeah um okay so something i want to say about that breakfast scene um when piper is doing her devastating this is disneyland from for you know women from malibu and their lulu 11 yoga pants and then The ladies walk by and they're Lululemons.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Get them, Piper. Okay, so here's the thing. My best friend, Diana Helmuth, wrote a book called 50 Places to Practice Yoga Before You Die. She works on this 50 Places book franchise. And I the the hard time she had in calling around, you know, investigating these like really cool places you can go to do yoga around the world. A lot of them in Asia, Southeast Asia, etc.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Trying to find non-white women to talk to because most of these retreats are run by white women who have gone to find themselves in Asia. Yeah. And, you know, my best friend, a white woman, but it was like driving her up the wall. She's like, I don't want to keep talking to all these white women who have gone to India to find themselves. But it was like making me think about that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
And she, you know, she eventually found them. It's a great book. But it was just like it was just like the struggle was real in terms of how much white women have taken over society.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
this scene uh inside of of southeast asia and i was just thinking about jacqueline and kate when i was thinking about that something our listener joanna wrote in about not me another joanna um she was like let's not put laurie in the shrinking violet bucket like she is a hard-hitting successful
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
maybe did not get the latest promotion but successful lawyer in new york so at apparently a top firm so like we've been waiting for like what's the carrie coon explosion like whatever's gonna come inside of the fracturing of this friend group or something like that let's not expect that laurie the lawyer is gonna take it lying down no right is that uh something that's on your radar
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Will we still feel vindicated in the monkey theory?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Yeah, yeah. What do you think... Jacqueline and Lori will find to talk shit about Kate. Will it be the beans? Will it be like, oh, the bean conversation?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
If she brings the beans one more time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
What about a monkey statue or a monkey mural?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
It's it's been time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Um... One thing that I love that Mike White has said over the course of three seasons of this show is when people are like, hey, which of these characters do you most closely identify with? And he's like, I'm all of them.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Is how Mike White thinks about these characters. So we got an email from listener Alex who was saying, was rewatching season one. You brought up our pal Sidney Sweeney. Yeah. Alex pointed out that in season one, Sydney Sweeney and her friend are making up personas for all the guests.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
And they mentioned something about how Jennifer Coolidge's character is a rich woman waiting for her friends who just, quote, tolerate her because she pays for everything. Interesting how Mike White seeded this even then. Curious if this inspired the blondies. Cute. Or if he has been plotting this all along. Either way, just appreciate the attention to detail always.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
So I do think there's always a version inside of White Lotus of the have and the have not inside of these characters.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
uh an unbalanced power like if you think of like Portia in season two working for Tanya like the only reason Portia's there is because she's in Tanya's employ and stuff like that yes um if Mike White an incredibly successful and rich yet deeply insecure uh person is someone who has gone around the world thinking hey are these people just hanging out with me because I'm rich because I'm successful because I'm famous and like uh Jacqueline Lemon
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Why are Kate and Lori there? Because they really care about Jacqueline. Are Kate and Lori there because... it's an all-inclusive cool trip to Thailand with their famous, they can draft off the fame a bit of Jacqueline.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Yeah, and I've definitely done that with friends of, you know, out of concern, also veered into shit-talking territory. That is, I'm merely a human. I like to think I don't do it very much anymore, but definitely when I was younger, that was the thing that I did. I want to talk to you about... The robbery.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
And our guy, Valentin. Who is not just our guy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
You're a guy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Who is not only causing strife with the biometrics, but also it seems like is involved in the boutique robbery.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Definitionally. I completely agree. So double dipping on White Lotus is something we're doing on this feed. And then Rob and I are also covering Severance, a tremendous show. Those podcasts come out at the end of the week. We've got a very special guest this week. We...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
A hundred percent. What do you know about the Russian population in Thailand?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I sure can. I read some articles about it because I, Mike White was talking in interviews about how when they spent time there, there were so many Russians. He felt like it would be weird to not include a Russian storyline. It would not genuinely reflect what's happening in Thailand right now to not include a Russian storyline. So it was like news to me. What can you tell me?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
So there's a great time, a magazine article, I think from last year about this, um, Quoting from that article, while many Western nations have shut out Russian air travel in response to Vladimir Putin's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Thailand sees Russian arrivals as key to reviving its pandemic-ravaged tourism industry.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
In October, Thai Prime Minister extended 90-day visas upon arrival for Russian passports, insisting in a February interview, we're not part of the Ukraine conflict, we're neutral. In 2023, Russians ranked top for tourist arrivals in Thailand from the outside of Asia with 1.4 million visitors.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
um it's a way to avoid the draft if you go to thailand and just stay there you can not get drafted into the war wow and so that's a thing that you can do so it's like going to uh to canada for americans during vietnam and then um
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
In Phuket, the Laguna Beachfront complex of villas, ornamental lake, et cetera, and 18-hole golf course is now dubbed Little Moscow for the sheer influx of moneyed Russians who have just come to sort of shelter in Thailand. So that is a thing. We've got Valentin, but like what else is to come on the Russian storyline front? Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
What do you want to say about, I don't know, this is a sort of thing that's happening in Thailand or the robbery or anything else pertaining to your guy, Valentin?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
My guy's not spry. He is not a spry guy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I, because Rob was not here in studio, got to have a chat with Damon Lindelof, the co-creator of Lost and Watchmen and Leftovers, and that conversation about Severance, about his Severance theories, about the Lost references on Severance, all that sort of stuff. So that episode will be up on YouTube in full, so you can watch a video of that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
The Muay Thai fights, I really am hoping is part of the storyline in this show. Yeah. you said our guy guy talk okay I walked that one back to he's also not my guy last week you were on nice guy watch nice guy talk watch yep where are you after this I mean more even more on that corner
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I love that this is a slight role reversal for us because we got a lot of emails from people being like, we love that Rob is an ally. Rob is the best. Rob is in on this. And I'm like, I don't know. I'm all in on Guy Talk. I really like him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
They've known each other forever, though.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Okay, listen. Don't underestimate someone who can hang a picture frame. But also, like, I agree that there are moves here that feel classically capital N, capital G nice guy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I think it all depends on his reaction to Mook. And I don't feel like his reaction to her rejection was shitty.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Disappointed?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Does that... Okay. But does that mean that she's somewhat interested in him? What it requires for Guy Tuck to not be in capital N, capital G, nice guy territory is reciprocity. Right? The nice guy is pursuing without any measure of interest from the girl. In fact, turning a blind eye to her discomfort and disinterest. And while Mook... Is sort of like, hey, man, we haven't even been on a date.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Why are you proposing marriage to me? She's not reading as uncomfortable to me when she's around him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
We record it in studio, and then an edited version of that conversation will be on our Episode 7 Severance podcast that's coming out at the end of the week. So you can hear bits and pieces of it on, on Friday with the severance podcast, or you can watch the YouTube version, which should be up in the middle of this week. So either today, Wednesday or tomorrow, Thursday.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
My guy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Okay. I think it's good to keep an eye on Guy Talk or any nice guy that we meet, capital N, capital G. But I...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
i'm leaning because i feel like oftentimes actually that's not true season one i was just thinking that there was like the the front desk couple in season two that were like hotel staff um that you know were quite background but we're like kind of rooting for um i don't know good to keep an eye on it uh our our my guy guy talk is a hero for the moment
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
even though he didn't really do anything, but that's okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
want to call out our guy our guy fabian uh who's the who's the resort manager who like in comparison to the two resort managers that we've seen the previous seasons has a much smaller role um but we did get a couple emails from people pointing out that christian friedel who plays fabian uh or friedel who plays fabian um was a a
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Scary Ass Nazi in the Zone of Interest, a tremendous film that came out two years ago. So is there something coming for Fabian? As we were waiting for Carrie Coon to have her big moment, should we be waiting for Fabian's big moment? And is it going to be performing at dinner some night or something else?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
He's so great. Trying to tell someone not to clear the plate in the most inefficient way possible. I don't know how he got this job, but good for him. Do you think the biggest threat to, you mentioned the Hollinger bodyguards, but do you think the biggest threat to the Guy Talk Mook romance could be if Pornchai takes his shirt off in front of Mook?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
So fun, fun things in the prestige TV podcast feed. Okay. Monkeys. I have another thing to talk to you about. Okay. Rob.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Where do you feel we're most likely to land?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
And just admire the ocean hammocks. You're a hammock guy, Rob. You love a hammock.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I mean, monkey shit is one thing. And the monkey interstitials, as you pointed out, something that Mallory pointed out on the other podcast was that in season two, a lot of the interstitials were those vases with the heads on them that were related to this folklore story that really had nothing at the end of the day to do with Tanya's death in season two of White Lotus.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
What if it's like a waiting, you're waiting out scenario? You're waiting out to the thing and you're just holding your book.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
she's she's a talented individual all right so um if you guys are listening to this it's great and we love when you listen if you're watching i just want to let you know that i've been podcasting how long we've been podcasting now over a year yeah a year and a half we've had a good run i've never seen you make as an uncomfortable face as you just made earlier when you were describing the ratless siblings so would you like to return to that i thought we would take a brief respite
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
We talked earlier about Rick being a character that I see as like having a choice to make. Lachlan is even more identified as someone who has to be like they have explicitly said it. I have a big choice to make between Duke and UNC, but like between which side, which sibling am I more going to lie myself with? Which side am I going to more identify with?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Am I going to go with Piper, who I think we all agree, at least you and I agree, is the more palatable option here, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
it feels like Schwarzenegger who's again, they're all doing a great job. Schwarzenegger has more teeth than a human usually does in his mouth. He's like a shark. Yeah. Very sharky. Or is he going to lie himself with Saxon? And again, to go back to that whole, like, People often end up disappointing us on White Lotus.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
So thematically was related, but was not
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I am fully braced for Lachlan to disappoint me and, you know, just sort of embrace the the you got to build up your muscles and hunt chicks and live your life that way. success, pussy, etc. That's the life path for you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I should not infantilize Locke. You're right. He's doing some stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
someone was killed by a vase so or a vase grabbed a gun or anything like that so it could be that the monkeys are just here thematically and if the monkeys are here thematically something we might want to keep in mind as we talk about spirituality and buddhism uh is this concept of the monkey mind uh that is part of buddhist practice and the monkey mind is quote a state of restlessness capriciousness and lack of control in one's thoughts
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Hold on, hold on, hold on. Yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
It is what he says. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
There's a very luxurious front room with many couches. Someone should be sleeping on the couch.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
In an ordinary family, I would say this is not an issue. In this family, let's just separate sleeping quarters. Seems like a great idea.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Just truly deranged behavior. I mean, but like enjoying yourself to porn in a room that is like barely insulated is also deranged behavior. Nothing but deranged behavior from Saxon. Here's something we should say. Let's run down. So we've got like to reiterate our threats, our potential threats.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Monkeys.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Question mark. uh the hollinger bodyguards have guns something to think about you know gun involved in the in the robbery etc um tsunami watch where are you on tsunami watch i mean lachlan's openly talking about a girl who thought a tsunami was coming at the end of this episode that's a true story yeah makes sense tracks certainly ominous as hell
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
she was like a 12 a 10 year old girl who like saved a bunch of people because she studied tsunamis in her geography class and actually probably you're not taking a geography class in when you're 10 but maybe her class section on geography okay um or probably possibly geology okay um monica our list of 10 year olds are taking geology classes you might have a geology unit
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Yeah. Why not? I love a talc exploration. Okay. The poisonous tree.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
pong pong tree which is what this tree is which is related to oleander as in white oleander as in a movie about poisoning someone um the suicide tree is what is called the suicide tree like genuinely if you go to wikipedia right now and look up this tree at the top top lines it's not like very deep and some people call it no no right at the top it's like aka the suicide tree but
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
A real soft launch for the Pong Pong tree. But our listener, Monica, pointed out, and I went back and rewatched it, and she's correct, that Lachlan was out of earshot and not paying attention during Pam's lecture about the poison fruit.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
What could go better in a smoothie?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Then the suicide tree.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
The pong pong tree. So those are all just things to think about. Yeah. As we think about why there's anything else that we haven't talked about that I want to mention.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
we did have a listener i will say a listener nisha wrote in about uh a complicated money laundering the one mdb scandal uh and how it might relate to the rat lifts yeah show kell scandal okay here's something i'll say okay this this is this is i have i have a stick up my ass about this the reaction i'm seeing to the three blondes the blondies is people saying they're the worst. They're the worst.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
They would never want to be around them. They're the worst people. Rob thinks Rick is a contract killer. We will find out. Greg literally got Tanya killed in season two. Indirectly, but I'm still blaming him. And Tim Ratliff... Is a fucking bamboozler on a massive scale that has surely impacted people who don't have disposable income to be impacted by whatever grift that he has been doing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Um, which is, uh, you know, uh, uh, a smear on monkeys, uh, you know, to be clear, but restlessness, capriciousness and lack of control. And when one's thoughts, is there a single character, uh, that you would most put under the monkey mind definition inside of this episode?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
So the the women who are kind of mean about each other behind each other's back.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I just I just it bothers. It's like the different standard that people are held to. And I'm just sort of like Tim Ratliff. Keep your eye on Tim Ratliff. I am like feeling for him on a certain level because Jason Isaac is really good at what he does. So he is like panic is quite intriguing to me. But he is a fucking like shitty person.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
rich criminal asshole, the kind of grifter that in 2025 we should be very much have our eye on.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
You don't want to hear about beans?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
It's a no. Piper, maybe.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I don't disagree.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Laurie...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
molly was telling me she was just on a trip and it was like she sent me a photo like a vacation photo of her and her uh two other friends they're all brunette she said the brunette the brown blob or the brunette blob or something like that and i was like well i was like which one are you and i was like oh wait no of course you're you're jacqueline lemon uh you know on camera star she's like i hope i'm laurie i'm like we all hope we're laurie
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
We all really hope we're Lori. But like, what are we going to do? But also, do we? Lori's also having a tough time. Lori just seems like she enjoys a Sauvignon Blanc, as do I. And so I support her and all of her.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I think it's because both of them have...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
wavy hair that gets a bit frazzled in humidity it seems to be like the main connection anyway they're the only two people who have that like no no one else purses out definitely not me um listen uh lori is not porsche's mom no i just think that that's so clear they they talk about her as like a young girl there's there's also this theory that this is a prequel season i just think that that is like
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Belinda recognizes Greg like that is just not yeah but we should say doesn't put it all together yet like she seems to recognize him but doesn't necessarily know who he is she's like I know I know that guy but from where that's weird right so like it's not a this is not a prequel season Laurie is not Portia's mom if she is we will apologize but I just really don't think that's the case but you know what
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
There's room for all kinds of wild theories because sometimes your wild theory is correct and sometimes it is a monkey with a gun. So monkeyshoot.gmail.com is where you can reach us. Absolutely.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
thanks to uh justin sales for his tireless work on this very crowded feed that we have going on right now thanks john richter for his incredible work on the video front to ct today who's helping out on the video front and to donna beach who is our uh great producer making sure we sound great on this episode we will be back with severance
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
uh in just a few days Rob what a time for us to be podcasting about great shows and uh please do check out that Damon Lindelof conversation we had a great time with Damon and uh he did weigh in on uh the Lakers Mavericks situation and I did my best Rob Mahoney impression not a good one but my best one so there we go NBA podcaster Joanna Robinson we love to see it we simply love to see it all right we'll see you soon bye
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I do. I do know what separates a chitter from a chatter. Thank you so much for asking me. Chittering. is a higher register, I would say, and a faster cadence than a chatter.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Chittering usually has to do with bugs, but they chitter and they skitter, that sort of thing. They do. You're a dog guy. I'm a cat person. I will let you know that cats chitter when they're hunting. If like you see a cat sees a bird out the window, it'll make this like little like shitter noise on the hunt. Oh, that's just very disconcerting. It's terrifying. I love cats. OK.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
And we're here today to talk to you about listening to audiobooks while reading books at the same time. We sure are. Rob, have we ever gotten as many emails about, you know, a subject matter? I think this massively dwarfs the chicken-washing emails we've gotten from the Severance listenership this week.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Monkey minded people. I will say this. Tim Ratliff. in his desperation, is reading a bit Monkey Mind.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Yeah, his brain is chittering and chattering at the same time, and it's a lot for him to handle. Okay, and then on the spirituality side,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
sort of blanket around this show um we got multiple emails from one listener um the first time he sent it through max he sent through turquoise watch he then updated it to teal watch and once he updated it to teal watch it's on our radar i was in because if folks have been listening to us podcasts on the speed for a while you might remember that when we did true detective we were on hardcore teal watch
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
So the reason that our listener Max is on teal, not turquoise watch in terms of like, let's see, what were some of the examples? Like a bathing suit or a suitcase or this, that, and the other. He was just like this color keeps coming up associated with a lot of characters. And he pointed out that in several religions...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
This color is believed to symbolize clarity and insight as a reminder of the sky and the sea, which are vast and expansive, representing the infinite nature of God's uppercase G or lowercase G if you prefer wisdom and creation. So I would like to fully induct all of us to Teal Watch 2025 White Lotus Edition.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
That's exactly it. So sort of like who's wearing the teal and does or holding something as teal or wrapped as something as teal and does that color at that time indicate some kind of clarity I guess would be the idea behind teal watch. Accent corner. Rob, we got a lot of accent emails.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
It's a lot. I will say this. The most compelling argument I've seen in the these accents are fine actually camp is that Mike White gave an interview talking about how the Bravo series Southern Charm, which I've never seen, is an inspiration for the Ratliff family. And that and then we got several emails from people saying Tommy Ravenel specifically is
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
on that show, the look, the tan, the polos, the everything, the teeth is, is a close comp to Jason Isaac's character. And this guy was also a disgraced public figure. So, you know, whom amongst us has not been disgraced by something in their time, but yes, we are, we are a, an audience divided on accent corner and, I would say I don't find it distracting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I don't think it's no like I don't think anything is offensively bad. I think some vowels here and there are squidgy, but like Jason Isaacs is and Parker Posey are two of my favorite performers on the show and in general in life. And so it's not a complaint. And I think it's been an interesting conversation from people.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
the the overall marathon of maintaining the accent okay rob is referring to this thing we did on on the ringer verse feed called ringer quest where we did a dnd campaign we we filmed that back in like november is when we did that um i did not know it was going to drop right in the middle of me critiquing professional actors and their southern accents
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
let's be very clear my southern accent is a way worse than anything that isaacson posy i've ever dreamed of um but i'm not a professional actor uh ringer quest uh dnd campaign if you want to hear my terrible southern accent i enjoy bringing that up i've enjoyed it a lot okay great um mini beers
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
no regularized beers in a mini fridge people seem to think they're all included in in the resort experience could be that spa is all a cart but your meals and your in-room treats are all inclusive sure so eat all the melon you want to eat at breakfast while you're bizarrely snubbing someone who you met at uh in austin at a birthday shower you know Love a snub.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I don't think it's against me. Okay, this is a severance. We're going to talk about this in the severance pod. I don't think it's against me. I think it's out of concern for me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Lastly, you didn't think that was a snub?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
It's like that is what's going on.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
I feel like, and I talked to Bill Mallory about this, but I really read to me as someone who doesn't remember it and is like slightly embarrassed that she doesn't remember. So it was covering it with rudeness. Okay. And then the staircase connection, we got a lot of emails about this, but I'll just read from one we got from Cara.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
The staircases is a, you know, true crime documentary and then a fictional series about the Peterson family and,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
um and the reason that i brought it up to bill and mallory before was there was part one of the theories about um what happened to the matriarch of the peterson family when she fell down a bunch of stairs is that an owl did it and so i was like an owl did it a monkey did it let's just all talk about that in the family but a lot of people have pointed out that um
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
The Peterson family lived in Durham, North Carolina. They went to Duke, blah, blah, blah. And they had adopted daughters, Margaret and Martha Ratliff. The name Ratliff is associated with the Peterson family. And also that Patrick Schwarzenegger and Parker Posey were in the staircase. So there's just like a lot of staircase connections going on. But this was Durham.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
This was like I think the most compelling comp is that this was like Durham's biggest true crime case that ever happened. And so the question is, if we're talking about a North Carolina family based on Southern Charm or not. Do you believe there's a version of this story where Tim Ratliff, unraveling as he is under the pressure of this looming scandal, does something to himself or his family?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Is he someone you have your eyeball on in that way?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
A new phrase for me. I learned from our emails.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High
Do you feel like Tim is going to go the Greg Gary route and change his name to Tom and disappear?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and piña colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
I mean, especially since the biggest burden is on this actor, Owen Cooper, who's this kid who is incredible in the show. And a couple other kids, too. There's several young performers who are asked to do some really heavy lifting emotionally in these episodes. The idea that, yeah, if you – and then you fuck up a line and – Your beautiful reaction you gave.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
No, but what if I brought some of the pineapple high chews that they have here at the office?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
So those behind-the-scenes sort of featurettes are incredible to watch. They used... It's usually sort of handheld onto certain cranes and that sort of stuff, but there is one drone... The flashiest sort of thing is the end of episode two drone shot, which I didn't need, but like... But... Let's sort of go through the advantages and disadvantages of... Damn, you're anti-drone.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
It's a novel, loves a drone.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
No, I mean, no, I wasn't anti that shot. It just was it was an ambitious bit of flair.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
That I didn't need for the episode to be great, but like doesn't not work.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
The pineapple high cheese are sneaky the best high cheese. Okay. So listen, severance, noon, pineapple, BYO pineapple. We're going to do a severance Q&A, live mailbag sort of situation. You can send questions in advance to where, Rob Mahoney?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
It's dazzling or even just watching them like even inside of the family's home, you know, a mid sides ish home with a kind of tight staircase where watching the behind the scenes of them handing the camera up the staircase to capture people in the stairs is incredible stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And, um, I think that, um, I don't know. OK, let's talk about it this way. So Graham said and I love this idea. Stephen Graham said it was his note was I never want the camera to not be following a character. Yeah, I don't want the camera just wandering hall. So even when we get to the second episode, the police know in the first episode in the police station, we're wandering all around.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
But we are given like various sergeants and nurses and stuff like that or a lawyer or That like when we go in and out of rooms, we're following that person as they're sort of moving paperwork around or whatever it is they're doing. And so we're always with a human that we like identify as a character that we know the school.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
There are teachers and students and stuff like that that we're following around. So here's a one or disadvantage. And this is a me problem. My brain can't shut off a running commentary of how did they do that? How did they do that one? How did they get that? How did they achieve that?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
My infamous, yeah, slack jaw delight. But yeah, just like my puzzle brain is just sort of like, how did they get the camera to do this? Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
that was most distracting i would say in episode one and then by episode two even though there's still a lot of movement around the school yeah i was able to kind of let go of it um and then episode three because it is just basically two people in a room for most that episode then it was just sort of gone um is that something that happens to you that do you get like distracted by sort of thinking about the logistics of how they got the shot or the camera to move that way
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And not only that, and this is something I do want to come back to, but like,
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
re-watching that episode because you watch that whole episode you're pretty sure this kid did it because of i don't know the thumbnail art on the netflix splash page but also just sort of like what are we doing here if this kid didn't do it see i i wasn't that i wasn't that sure until until the end of episode one okay so that i mean that's what they're trying to go for and like i would say um
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
But also we will be answering questions sort of live from the chat inside of this Q&A, which you can find on YouTube on the Ringer TV channel at noon on Wednesday. And then it also will just be there after that so that you can watch it later. But why not join us for lunch or, I don't know, a 3 p.m. snack if you're on the East Coast or other time zones.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
when you rewatch it, knowing that those two cops already have seen this video or, you know, the nurse might even, you know, like who knows who all these people who are the lawyer, certainly. And, and he says is at some point he's like, they wouldn't have entered your home in that manner and done on this unless they had really compelling evidence. Yes. So he is like,
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
very ready for that video to be, you know, part of this interrogation.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Cause he knows what's coming. Right. Whereas the father is, is blindsided by it. But I think that like, um, thinking about those two cops, um, Who we meet at the beginning and they're very normal everyday conversation that they have going into this. But knowing that they're in for a horrible day because they and have been because this murder happened the night before.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
So they've been probably like, you know, they've been working all night. Totally. Or the nurse saying, I think something like, I hate a juvenile case me. You know what I mean? Like she knows everything. She's being nice, but nice with this like bit of reserve to it of like, I, you wouldn't be here if there wasn't something seriously wrong going on here. Do you know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Are you saying there's been pushback on the show for treating him too kindly?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And then we will have our Severance finale pod up on Thursday night rather than the usual Friday morning. But then we will be doing another pod at the top of next week to sort of gather your reactions to the finale and our look ahead to the future. And we might have some extra bonus stuff on that episode as well.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
I feel mixed about it. I wanted to talk, and that's in my notes to talk about. I consider that, of my advantage, disadvantage of a one-er, and I will zoom back to some other things, I have this under mixed, because... Long-form storytelling TV can take you anywhere inside of a story.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And that's an advantage of something like, let's say, Broadchurch, where we're inside so many people's homes and so many people's lives. And we're at home with, you know, no spoilers for Broadchurch, but we're at home with the murderers as much as we're at home with the parents who are grieving, you know, the child and stuff like that. And so... So a disadvantage...
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
To sticking so firmly on Jamie and Jamie's family and something that Stephen Graham said, he was like, we really thought it'd be interesting to be with Jamie's family in the final episode. Yes. Is interesting and it's interesting in the advantage of the one or which is you're there in the claustrophobic silences. You're there with Jamie crying in the van ride to the police station.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
You're there with Bryony, the therapist, as she like stands and wait for the hot chocolate machine to deposit all the hot chocolate into the cup. You know, like those those those narrowing the iris of the story down into this one hour of time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
is interesting and causes of caused a visceral reaction in me that is that I feel positively about yeah I wasn't sure if that moment again I also love Faye Marseille I was not sure of that moment of calling out this thing lampshading essentially what they were doing was satisfied me enough because the disadvantage of being in the present is
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
You know, we talk about this all the time when we talk about murder shows.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Yeah, the Laura Palmer wrapped in plastic, this idea of like... Or Rosie Larson on the killing. But in at least the Laura Palmer... We get, you know, fire walk with me or at least with Rosie Larson and the killing, we get flashbacks, some flashbacks to her. You know what I mean? Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And in this case, it's like Katie, we know a little bit through her friend that we meet in episode two at the school, but we don't really know anything about her. I'm not mad about it because I think this is a very interesting story to tell. So I'm not like, you know, it invalidates it to leave it out. I'm just not sure that lampshading it like gets them entirely off the hook for doing it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Yes, exactly.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
That's a lot.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
I love that. And I love that when they talk about the show, the line that they've been using in all the interviews is not this isn't a whodunit, but a why done it. Right. And like the fact that the show has no easy answers to your point about like your preconceived notions around a Stephen Graham type. Yes. The answer isn't, oh, he was abused by his father. That's not the answer.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
That's great. We might also be covering the studio. Don't worry about it. It's a lot. We're doing fine. We're having a great time here in this content nirvana we find ourselves in. So let's talk about adolescence. Four episodes on Netflix. It's one hour each episode. It's a British show. And the premise is a 13-year-old boy is arrested on suspicion of a very serious crime.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
The story they want to present to you is this actually is a fairly, like, loving, normal home. And I think that all of the you're so bright, you're a smart kid comments was not just them sort of making things in the same way, do you want cornflakes made, like, sort of thing, but also to underline, like, This is a smart kid.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And this is a thing that happened with this smart kid from a loving family. I do want to say, I agree with you that it's not a salacious, we're not glamorizing murder. We're not doing anything like that, but I'm going to, I'm going to like call it one last advantage of the one-er. And this is sort of like where I started with the concept as a conduit to story.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
It breaks through the noise of content.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
In a way that we talked about a bit with the pit as well, right? Like the pit being the concept is every episode is an hour in one shift. They're not doing one-ers in that hospital, but like, There's a hook.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And so I don't know that a very well acted, very well written, very seriously considered four episode drama about a kid who did a murder would be the thing everyone's buzzing about on a weekend, a Netflix drop, were it not for this other part of it. And so as much as it like... I wish that weren't the case of what we had to do to get really good stories told. Like sometimes that is the case.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
So it is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
every emotion on screen has to work itself out organically over time and that can lead to all sorts of fascinating and terrifying and painful places and i mean even in even in even in one and two to your point yeah even in one and two because we're in such a crowded environment we're not cutting away for relief but sometimes we do move into a less stressful room yes inside of the police station or inside of the school though that school is extremely stressful everywhere but
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And a teacher.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And also the woman who was, I forget the name of the woman who was like leading them around.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Her completely ineffective sort of unaware attitude was, okay. But I want to talk a bit about the sort of sympathy, no sympathy seesaw for Ryan, which I think is sort of meticulously done across the series. And no place better, I think, than episode three. But Owen Cooper, incredible. You will see him next as young Heathcliff in the ill-advised Emerald Fennell, Wuthering Heights. Oh, no.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Co-starring Margot Robbie and Jacob Elordi.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
I think when that drops, people are going to see him and be like, who is that kid? He's great if they didn't already see him in this. So I think he'll come out fine. I just don't think the project's a good idea. That's another. That's a problem for another day. The way that it's...
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
rolled out in the first episode um and then and then we take a break from Jamie and then he comes back in episode three but like through this whole thing I was sure that he had done something yeah But I wasn't not until you see the video or you like without much provocation at all.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
You know, we're immediately into a violent though to your point about salacious in the distance, slightly grainy. Yeah. In a way that like. we are with his father in that moment of this kid who has been so scared, who has been whimpering, who has been so polite. Yep. You know, who is, who seems so bright, all this sort of stuff like that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And we sort of follow the investigation over time from there. The sort of hook of the show, a reason why it's breaking through in conversation, among other things, is the fact that each of these four one-hour episodes are shot in one shot.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Or in episode three, which is my favorite episode, sort of by far. Same. The way that Aaron Doherty's character, Bryony comes in, having seen him already for several sessions.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Liking him. Yeah. Like comes in with a sandwich for him with, you know, with banter. And she digs into a place that by the end she can't even touch the sandwich that she brought into him. She's so perturbed by what has happened here and watching it. We are meant to. This kid is not – I think what's so special about Jamie as a character is it's not like – spoilers for Primal Fear.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
It's not like Edward Norton in Primal Fear where like a switch flips and you're like, oh, my God, this guy has been playing us all along. No, no. It's like this is a kid. Everything he says is real. But if you dig one or two layers under the surface, there's something very scary there. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
But not disconnected from the nice kid that you are like feel so bad that he thinks he's the ugliest kid in class or that or the other thing. You know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
So for the love of coffee, go try them now. Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
They're oners. And as far as I can tell from behind this, like interviews and behind the scenes footage, these are actual oners, not digitally seamed oners. And we'll sort of talk about the extraordinary process of making the show. We can talk about that. Um, yeah. But this is this is a show written by Jack Thorne, who has done a bunch of adaptive IP work that is like hit or miss for me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Yeah. That episode, episode three... Very little happens outside of the room except for this, like, guy at the facility sort of hitting on her, question mark? Is that what's happening?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Yeah, chatting her up a bit in a way that, like... is all in the mix of the larger conversation of the show. But I was struck by some of the just, like, tiny pieces of language. And again, Jack Thorne has been, like, a hit or miss writer for me, but some of the tiny pieces of language inside of that episode when he says, in one of his freaked outs, your little head, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And then when he says, when she waves off the guard and he's like, oh, like a queen. There is this, like... misogynistic language that is not like all women are sluts or what it's not big and obvious yes it's little and caked into the very marrow of who of who this who this kid has become yeah due to the environment that he has sort of found himself in and i think that like
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
I think also the kid curiosity because there's Jamie who was our perpetrator. There's his friend Ryan who gave him the knife. And he and Ryan have these sort of like echo moments of their – you know. Jamie with Bryony and Ryan with Bascom both have this moment where Ryan goes, you were popular, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
You were popular, right? And to Bryony, Jamie goes, oh, you're posh. And so there's this way in which they're identifying these adults as like, there's no way you can understand who I am. Yeah. Because you were popular or posh.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
But then a lot of like original work that I find more interesting. Like he wrote the Cursed Child. He wrote the for the His Dark Materials series. But then he's also done like This is England and a bunch of other stuff. And then Stephen Graham, who is one of my favorite actors and is really like doing some interesting stuff with his career right now. There's your Venoms, The Last Dances.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
The nuance of episode three of him saying it's fucked up that someone shared these photos of her. Yes. But also it put her in a weak position. So I thought that maybe she would go out with me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
To the point where after his like final freak out in episode three, to the point where when we get to episode four, And we're considering it came to me the moment when he's on the phone. He calls his dad. It's his dad's 50th birthday. He calls his dad and his dad has him on speakerphone because his mom and his sister in the car. And he's talking for a while.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And then he's like, your mom and your sister are here. And he's like, oh, I thought I was just on the phone with you. And it like made me go back to like when he picks his adult, he picks his dad and his mom is like, why didn't he pick me? Or then later his dad is like, it should have been you. But like this idea that he's like, only my dad will understand me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Like, and you know, that's, that's a human, that can be like a human thing, but it also felt like slightly gendered of like, I didn't know the women in my family were on this call. I thought I was just talking to my dad sort of thing. And that was like, It just slightly creeped me out in a way.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And then I feel I feel, you know, at the same time, the show just threads the needle really well because I really do feel for this kid. And when he like draws a card for his dad and just sort of like, man, it had me Googling like. Juvenile murder sentencing UK. What's the future like for this kid? Because he's done this horrific thing. And I'm still like, can we come back from this in some way?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Is there a future of any kind for this kid? What do we do here?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
We hear from the first, the very first episode at the beginning is trying to get out of going to school because he gets bullied all the time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And then there's also this. But he's extraordinary on this show. So, Rob, what? Before we got the text from our producer Justin on Sunday being like, hey, do you guys want to crash an adolescence pod? Yes. You and I both had heard about this show. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
In a way that the show's not saying, this will fix it. No. Or like, everything's fine now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
a move in the right direction.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And then the next thing we see as we're doing our fancy drone shot is a bunch of isolated kids on like down their phone. You know what I mean? Um, and Katie's friend in particular, like there's, there's no happy ending of that episode for her, you know? And so I think that like, um, all that stuff is really finely tuned. Um,
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Something that I like that they made sure to do is that all of the Andrew Tate sort of specific codified incel stuff, they only have the adults say.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
I loved the scene with his son where his son's like, this is what these fucking emojis mean. You're embarrassing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
But then also, I think that, yeah, so to have this, like, there's a language you don't understand. Your kid's not safe at night in his room. And there's an entire language. And not to be like, not to be all...
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
a father as a father of daughters about it but like my nephew who I love adore is like exactly this age and I was just like thinking about him so much and he's like so sweet and like all this you know like yards away from anything like this as far as I know but like but like
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Yeah, it gave me a real I was like, oh, no, not the father of daughters moment for you, Joanna, in terms of like empathy and fear. Yeah. In terms of watching and thinking about him going into high school and what that's going to be like and all of this stuff is just like really terrifying. And they've been kids.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
I don't want to talk about them too much because I don't think my sister would want me to. But like they've been kids who have been raised without devices. And that was like a strong parenting choice she made. And in some regards, that is going to change their lives. But like, I don't think you can keep all of this out forever. And that's just like something to think about.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
We don't come here to bury the pit in order to praise adolescents. That's not... We love the pit. Still in the running for best show of the year for me so far. Love the pit. However, you and I were just sort of making fun of this line from the pit that Noah Wiley's character, Dr. Robbie, says, we are failing young men because we don't teach them how to express their emotions.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
We just tell them to man up and then we let them get their lessons in manhood from toxic podcasts. It was just like a little...
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
obvious on the nose tell versus show ultimately and the pit does so many things so well so like again i'm not here to like tear down the pit but i was just sort of like what they thought they were doing with that line is like what this show is doing in a much because it's the whole premise of this show is in a much more complex way. Again, there are no clear answers to how did this happen?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
You and I both were like, yes, we will, because we have heard nothing but excitement around the show. So what had you heard that got you excited about the show that made you side text me being like, I want to do this. Do you want to do this, Joe? Sort of thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And there's no clear answer on how do we stop it? The show is not interested in solving this problem. The show is interested in
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
just holding it up for you to look at and think about something I love also in terms of the writing process in that like arduous three week shooting of each episode process is that they let the kids rewrite some of the lines because they're like you know we're men in our 50s and like what do we know about the way in which like teenagers now are talking and so I'm not a young teen so but but like
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Is this a show that's going to connect with young teens? I'm curious to know. I don't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
More so adults, for sure.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Definitely. But I do remember being a kid and I remember there are TVs and shows you can watch where you're like, that's not how a human... Of course.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And then there are shows you can watch where you're like – like, my so-called life lingers because my so-called life really got it right in terms of the way in which actual teenagers talk versus – I mean, Dawson Creek lingers for a different reason, but no human teen has ever said any of those words. So, like, if they got the way that the kids talk –
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
right right there's a better chance that a teen could watch this and say it you know not not scoff at like of course older men trying to tackle uh the problem of adolescence in the modern world anything else you want to say about the show problem honey
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
I feel like we've had a real week talking about being TV criers, Rob, but like, yeah, I mean, I think that, um, that Aurora song, um, There is just a job incredibly well done. The show ends with a very sentimental.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Extremely sentimental song. Sentimental in like a very specific sort of like UK kind of that sort of like UK style. extra layer of schmaltz that I think that they are like capable of I say with absolute adoration and this extreme performance from Stephen Graham but like what I love about that and it all lands and I am also laid out but like I'm the kind of person where like
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
If they hadn't done it right, that would feel all too much. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
But I think watching – going back and sort of re-watching episode one and I didn't watch it all back through but I like sort of spot watched some things and like I remembered registering this at the time that Stephen Graham – he's giving a like – they break into the home. He's like, what are you doing? This is my home. You're wrecking the place, all this sort of stuff like this. But he is like –
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
often quite contained and stoic in that episode and until the end obviously but I remember watching it and I'm like they're giving us this because I know he has to go somewhere you know so they're starting us here so that Stephen Graham who's like every cut to his face I was like captivated by I just think he's incredible in this um
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
But yeah, I thought it all built up to an incredible conclusion and climax. And Christine Tremarco, whose work I'm not as familiar with, I thought was wonderful. Stephen Graham has said that those two actors have known each other since they were children. And there is this sort of like baked in... This is what I'm talking about. Like...
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
We've been talking about Christopher Guest films, like creating your stable of actors that you just feel comfortable and familiar with and you can go build from there. We're incredibly lucky to get to see it. Anything else you want to say about this tough to watch, but very incredible show?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
um thank you to justin sales um thank you to john richter thank you to donnie beacham and we will be back for severance more white lotus and all other kinds of things here on the prestige feed and we'll see you soon bye
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
I think this is a really easy one. A really easy yes, you should watch it recommendation. And also just a really easy show to decide whether or not you want to watch. If you watch the first episode and you like it. You'll know. That's the show. You know what I mean? Both sort of like stomach churning aspect and also just can I hang with the cadence of this hour shot episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
in one continuous shot. So we'll talk about all of that. So that's, yeah, we give it our recommendation. We think you should watch it. If you haven't, press pause, go watch it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
I got, so I was over at a friend's house on Thursday night and she said, have you watched Adolescence? She's in the biz. She's like, have you watched Adolescence? I was like, no. She was like, it's, She's like it's their baby reindeer this year is like how she sort of.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
I agree. But like in terms of how Netflix is thinking like this is how we win the the miniseries category at all the award shows like this is sort of how they're thinking. So she's in like publicity. So that's sort of like how she was characterizing it. I agree. I think this is. way better than Baby Reindeer. But just in terms of like a British phenomena show on Netflix that comes out of nowhere.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
She was like warning me on the Thursday before it dropped on the Friday. And then Friday I get the text from Chris Ryan who's like, Joanna, adolescence. And I was like, oh no. And then I started hearing from a bunch of other people. So here we are. So go watch it if you haven't. If you've already watched it or you are one of those sickos who wants to stay around anyway. I will say this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
We have a very special emergency crash together pod for you here on a Tuesday. We're here to talk to you about a Netflix series that dropped over the weekend, Adolescence.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
I want to say... If you're one of our beloved sickos who likes to listen to us natter at each other without having watched a thing, that is great. We welcome you. I will just want to premise... the framework of the show for you to help you listen to this. Four episodes takes place over. It's 13 months is the time span of these from arrest to the end of the story.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
First episode is the arrest and then the sort of booking of the child, Jamie.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Well, I'm presuming anyone listening now... Oh, we're spoiler gloves off at this point.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
So, episode one is the arrest. Episode two, they go to the school, basically to try to hunt down where the murder weapon is. And by the end of episode one, we have irrefutable proof that this kid has... Donna murder. Episode three is essentially a two hander with this kid and a therapist who was sent in to evaluate him as part of the court case. That's, I think, seven months later.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
So it's seven months into the investigation. And then 13 months is the final episode. And that is the boy's family and how everything is sort of impacting them about a year later is sort of where we leave things. So that's that's just like the basic framework.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
So there's the police station episode, the school episode, the therapist episode and the family episode is sort of how I'm kind of reference it as we talk about it. Yeah. I want to talk about a little bit more about some of the talent behind the show. Please. So Stephen Graham, again, who I love. I was at I was at Pub Trivia on Sunday.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
four episodes for one hour episodes dropped over the weekend we're gonna talk to you about the show we're gonna at the top of this episode if you haven't seen adolescence but we know some of you sickos click on these episodes and listen to them even though you haven't seen the thing so if you haven't seen it at the top we're going to talk about what it is and whether or not rob and i recommend that you watch it and then we'll get in you know and then maybe you decide to press pause go watch it come back and listen for more um
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And at the end of the game, they put up a they just put up like a random movie on the screen. And it was Snatched, which starts with. uh, baby face, Stephen Graham and, and Jason Statham. And I, I got so excited. I know Stephen Graham. I think best. I think the, the role that he did that made the biggest impression on me was I was a big boardwalk empire fan. He played Al Capone on that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And, um, I think I didn't connect him to some of his, uh, work that he had done with, uh, you know, a UK accent. And it was one of those, that actor is an American sort of how I, Remember coming to Stephen Graham, but I'm a huge fan of his. What's your association with Stephen Graham?
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Okay, if we must.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
The polo is popping. Well, and you say they know exactly what they're doing, having this role. He is the co-creator of this show. And something I want to highlight about him is that, and CR was talking to me about this a little bit, like what Stephen Graham has done with, he is much better known in the UK than he is here. He has like an OBE, like he is a fixture in UK film and television.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And what he has done, and this is CR's point, sort of like with his fame and his fame, I would say in the last few years in 2020, he and his wife, who's also an actress and a producer, Hannah Walters co-founded a production company. And so they've been making projects alongside your Venoms and your other things.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And so and he sort of started to amass a kind of stable of actors like Ashley Walters, who plays the lead detective in this. And Aaron Daugherty, who plays the therapist in this, were in this. A Thousand Blows, this like period boxer project that he did also this year with his wife. So and then the director of.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
Exactly. The director, Philip Barantini, who directed all the episodes, is best known for directing a film called Boiling Point, which is a one-er. It was based on a short film called Boiling Point, which was a one-er. And then they did a whole feature film and then a TV series called Boiling Point that is set in a kitchen.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
You know, so that episode of The Bear, but make it longer and probably more agitating. Right. But I think, you know, collecting directors that he's worked with before, actors that he likes and works with before. I was watching an interview he gave where he was like, at this point in my career, I just like to surround myself with, like, people who are good at their jobs and pleasant on set.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And, like, that's all I want to do now. And so then this is, like, a passion project of a kind for him. And it was inspired by...
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
him the actor steven graham it's inspired twofold one it's inspired by him the actor steven graham having seen a couple news stories about young men doing horrible crimes violent murders and he was deeply troubled by that and thought that that should be the subject of of a show um but also what it sounds like to me based on some of the interviews that i that i was looking at was um
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
We're going to do all that. Very quickly, I want to mention that this is dropping on a Tuesday. Tomorrow, Wednesday, we will have not only our White Lotus episode five coverage, but Rob and I are doing a live Q&A at noon Pacific lunchtime.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
He was asked to do a one-er project. So first came the idea of we're going to do a project where each episode is one shot.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
then what is the subject matter that we want to pair with that? So it's this idea of like what came first. What came first was this idea of like the hook, which is four episodes, one shot. And I want to talk about the advantages and disadvantages of the one-er concept in a second because I have a lot of complicated thoughts about it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
But I do think it's interesting in this Netflix content world, this idea that like –
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
a studio a streamer comes to you and says hey what do you got that you can turn into a project where each episode is is a one shot yeah it's a you know it's a it's a a content conduit towards storytelling and art i'm not mad about it necessarily it's very pragmatic and practical but i thought that that was sort of an interesting element of how this was put together
The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
And I think it was really smart to keep it to like four episodes. Yes. You know, it's not a novel idea for the British model to have a four episode series, but it is unusual in American television.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and piña colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
What kind of story is Mike White interested in telling us? Not like some wild cockamamie, I think a monkey got a gun. That's a me theory.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Or press ccb at spotify.com. Either way. But what story could Mike White weave for us with any of these given deaths? And here are a couple chief things that people wanted us to remember about. OK, Don, our listener, Don and a couple of people.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But like his his email chiefly was talking about the way that our spoilers for previous seasons of White Lotus, Armand, who dies in season one and Tanya, who dies in season two, were characters who did not have close emotional ties to anyone else on the show. Certainly Greg Gary did not give a shit about Tanya and even Portia was like not invested.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Armand's co-workers liked him, but we didn't explore any of those relationships too closely.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
In addition to Mallory and I are covering Yellow Jackets, Daredevil, The Last of Us trailer, all that sort of stuff over in the house of our feed. So there's a lot happening.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Yeah, just because you go ass-to-mouth doesn't mean that you are like, you know... It's a kind of intimacy, I gotta say. So the fact that the seasons don't end with this plaintive mourning from any of our other characters, right? So if... a Ratliff dies, then we have to grapple with the rest of the Ratliff family mourning.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
If Rick or Chelsea dies, that would be devastating to either Rick or Chelsea, I believe. If one of the fancies dies, I think that would be like maybe a little bit perhaps. So on the one hand, Mike Waite has said this season might be a bit darker than other seasons. So it's possible that he's going to zag in that direction.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
On the other hand, I think that is a useful thing to sort of keep in mind is like, Usually when we go to the airport and sort of see all of our characters, how they're existing after this vacation at the airport, it's not anyone sort of like, dressed in black grief sobbing. That's not how we end a season of White Lotus, usually. So that's something to think about, you know?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I have not watched a single second of paradise.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Some of the listeners are suggesting because of this idea of like, who will we not be sort of like, I mean, actually I was quite devastated that Armand died, but who will we not be like completely. He's a great character.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
And I saw an interview that Jennifer Coolidge gave Variety where she said, quote, I hope they do something terrible to him. So shout out Tanya now and forever. But there is this theory floating around that I think is interesting where... Follow me down this domino path. Belinda finally decides, she's like, that guy did a murder.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
And she, I don't know how one calls Interpol, but she calls Interpol. And Interpol shows up, you know, guns drawn or whatever, to capture Great Gary. But Tim thinks it's the authorities there for him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
And Rick perhaps thinks it's the authorities... following up on whatever it is that goes down in bangkok so like hence monkey shootout at gmail.com like everyone everyone thinks the the guns are there for them but you know and then and then panic and chaos ensues so i like that i i don't know how belinda's gonna get dinner pole on the horn I don't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Is it episode seven? Like that's what I've heard.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
MonkeyShoot.gmail.com if you work for Interpol.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I mentioned this, I think, on the pod with Bill and Mel, but I was looking up Thai extradition laws, mostly because I was like, Why do all these guys feel like they're safe here? What's extradition like in Thailand? Turns out it's not as free and breezy as I thought it would be. It's not the crime shelter that I thought it might be.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
You think I would like, you think I, Joanna would like paradise.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Blend. You really blend, you know? Okay, so here's the question, though. For Tim, you mentioned sort of – OK. So the noose is tightening on Tim. We're downing the lorazepams. Jason Isaac on the official podcast gave this great interview where he was talking about how – on this theme of identity that we've been talking about all season, how like Tim is being stripped of all of the things that he –
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I do. Okay. I trust you because you were the one who was like, Joanna, you're going to hate Landman. And you were right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
identified as like provider father pillar of community good businessman uh you know uh you know a literal boy scout a son of these of this lineage um you know a a man of notoriety at the club all these things that he had sort of like the club not the club people at the club think uh all these things that he had defined himself as he's being stripped away
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But is White Lotus a show where there are ever actually consequences for the wealthy or are they inoculated somehow? And so will we come out the other side of this vacation? Tim is so convinced right now here in episode four that. They're going to lose the house. He's going to go to jail for a little time. All this other stuff like that. They're going to be poor.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
None of his kids are equipped to live this life. He has not prepared them for this. His wife is not equipped to live this life. He has failed entirely. Would it make sense on a White Lotus show for this actually to not happen to Tim, for there to be no actual consequences for him at the end of the day, other than this dark week of the soul that he is experiencing in Thailand?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Oh, fingers crossed for zero speeches about that. We can dare to dream. This is maybe best saved for the Severance podcast, but I'll just say it today. We learned a thing. We did a little unboxing experiment on the Severance pod on Friday, and I got some feedback that... Mostly what people saw was my laptop and not, like, the items themselves. So I have a lot to learn about unboxing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
interesting because uh you know one of our listeners Peter and wrote in about um this idea of a winner of a season of a White Lotus season and this is like a way in which um our beloved boss Bill Simmons likes to talk about um stories and usually that's not how I like to think about it but I think it is interesting that um you know this listener brought up the fact that like Mike White
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
loves a reality show yes was on Survivor went quite far on Survivor did The Amazing Race a couple times we talked before about how this is like sort of like a thinly thinly sheened version of Survivor he always puts Survivor players in every season and stuff like that so like Is he thinking about his show as a story that has winners and losers?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
And I think your mileage may... This listener, Peter, wrote in with who he thought won individual seasons, and I'm actually not sure I agree with all of his takes, but I think your definition of winning may vary at the end of the day.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But one thing that I always consider losing on a season of White Lotus, and we talked about this a little bit last week, is this idea of the character that I'm rooting for to break free out of something... And then they just don't. And they just sort of like melt back into the world of privilege that we are sort of like – or do not break the cycle. So I bring this up all the time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But I'll be in season two who I was like, you're not like your daddy or grandpa. And then at the end of the season, he's at the airport ogling women just like his dad and his grandpa or – Rachel and Shane in season one. And so like the person that I am most have my eye on for this is someone like, and we talked about this before, but someone like Piper who is like, I'm not like my family.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I'm not like my family. And inside of this episode, Vicki says to her, you're just as just mental as I am. Like you're just like me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I thought, I think that's really interesting. So like, Piper is someone who won't be able to, like, go to the monastery and live a different life than her family has sort of planned for her. Yeah. But – and we got, you know, another, you know, word of encouragement from Amrita about Rick, that Rick is someone who I'm hoping – So usually when I hope, I get disappointed.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But Rick is someone who I'm hoping can. You know, you are not your story, right? You can break out of this karmic cycle and find something new for yourself. I just think that's, I don't know. Piper, I have no confidence in her and I do apologize to her for that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
That's what it feels like if previous seasons are any indication. I'm always like wondering if Mike White's going to zag and he'd be like, oh, you think you know what White Lotus is? You have no idea.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
That was my first time. Thanks for bearing with. But if you wanted to watch me half-unbox some Severn stuff, we did that on the pod last week. Okay. Quick opening question for you, Rob Mahoney.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
He's a zaggy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I don't either. But we're going to keep it in the pod. But we're never going to say it again. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Definitely not true. And also that idea that like, okay. So there's two things, you know, when we're watching middle-aged men with daddy issues and stories, there's like two things.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
There's a lot of that going around. All of it. That there's the energy of... My father is a criminal, and so I'm, you know, okay. To take our guy Walton Goggins, Justified, which is just a show rife with daddy issues. You've got Raylan Givens, a character on Justified who is a U.S. Marshal, and his father is a criminal, and this whole, like,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
The shadow that his father casts over him on that show and the struggle that he has with like, I'm an upstanding law, but I've got this rage and this darkness inside of me that I think comes from my dad or whatever.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
You said we weren't? Okay. And then you've got boy Crowder, whose daddy was also a criminal. Sorry, his daddy. His daddy. His daddy was also a criminal. Pronounce it correctly, Jo. Thank you. But he has chosen a life of crime. And that's just the show, and it's the best. But for Rick, it's like, okay, I live in shame because my father was good, and I am...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
What was the worst mistake of the episode? Was it my guy-guy talk, leaving the gun out? Or... Was it Belinda straight up slow-mo mean mugging a guy she knows?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
can't go to Australia for some reason I'm something of a of a scoundrel yeah and so the the like how freeing would it be to not live under the weight of this like fictional saint who you think was your father and you have failed to live up to um the Vader comp I just wanted I mean you and I were in on the Vader theory I can't believe we're here though I can't believe this is what seems to be happening
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But I think you and I agree that Jim Hollinger is probably Rick's dad. And I just want to bust a theory.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Okay. One that I've seen go on Reddit and it reminds me of a conversation we had on Friday about severance. I really need people to, like, have a better understanding of how old people are. Because a lot of people are like, could Greg Gary be Rick's dad? John Grace is 67 and Walt Goggins is 53. So I just need you guys all to remember that. Technically, 14-year-old dad, I don't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Anyway, they're of the same generation. And people, I think, are really desperate to understand why Greg Gary is here in such close proximity to a White Lotus. And so they're spinning all these theories about how he was involved somehow in the Lamb deal with the Hollanders and stuff like that. I don't know that I agree with that because I feel like if he had done all that,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Though he was part of the Land Management Bureau. But if he had done all that, would he need Tanya's money? Like, wouldn't he have money? So I don't actually think that Grey Gary is connected to any of that, personally. But above all else, I do not believe... that these two men who are quite close in age are father and son.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Rick also very much not wanting to talk to anyone.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
One has a Chelsea and one has a Chloe, and those are two different things entirely.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Did a murder. Which are you picking?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
A reason I don't think that Rick is inside of the Greg Gary story necessarily is because Greg Gary is currently hunting Belinda. And Saxon, you know, like he's got like multiple people that he's sort of like predatorily staring at at dinner.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Just shifted. Yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
There's no connection whatsoever. I've never been on any. I think that's true. I don't think any boat I've ever been on would qualify as a yacht.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
No. Well, okay. Yes and no. I love the ocean. It's like my favorite thing in the whole world. I get tremendously seasick. A woman of the beach. Yeah. A woman of the cliffs. I love to look out at an ocean. The rocky cliffs. Yeah. A great Northern California angry ocean. Love that. Don't want to be on it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
You know, or Victoria Ratliff just sort of waving in with a duvet. Who's to say? We'll come back to Vicky's little ocean walk in a second. But on the Jim Hollinger front, we got a really interesting email that sent me a Googling from a listener, Gower. This is what I'm calling the historical comp section. He said, quote, when I hear Jim Hollinger, I keep hearing to myself Jim Thompson.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I've been to Thailand and Bangkok many times and have visited the Jim Thompson house. I've also been to Koh Samui on a day boat trip. So I'm fascinated with it all. I figured one white imperialist Jim is as good as any other Jim. Of course, I know nothing about Thompson and too lazy to do the work. Maybe there's something there you might elucidate us on or maybe it's nothing. Just a thought.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I did Google Jim Thompson because I had never heard of this person.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Okay, here's a life goal, perhaps. It's one thing to have a Wikipedia page about yourself, right? The Rob Mahoney Wikipedia page.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I don't have one. I don't need one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
So for the love of coffee, go try them now. Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But you're NBA podcaster Rob Mahoney.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But what if Rob Mahoney death had its own special page? Oh, wow. Not just a section.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Its own actual page. Wow. And this is the legacy of Jim Thompson, who was a sort of tie silk magnet who sort of Made big splashes inside of the industry, probably through shady business work in Thailand, was connected to a lot of famous people and a lot of government officials. And then he straight up disappeared and nobody. And to this day, they have not solved his death.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
And there's all these theories about what happened. The disappearance of Jim Thompson. And so, you know, was he murdered by the government? Was he – did he disappear himself because he was embroiled in something and wanted to vanish? All these things. I read all these articles about – there have been documentaries about what happened to Jim Thompson. And the truth is they don't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
And probably he just like fell down somewhere and they never found his body. He went out for a walk and he never came back.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
The prevailing theory is that he fell over and that they just never found it. It just got swallowed by Thailand itself. And that's poetic in its own sense. But I kind of like this idea that, you know, sort of this infamous unsolved mystery of Thailand is something that might inspire Mike White to do the Jim Hollinger as a disappeared version of Rick's dad sort of story.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I can't defend it. I'm not inclined to. Okay. However, personally, where are you on Muka and Gaitak?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I think that's really interesting. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Elsewhere on the historical comp section, our listener Rachel wrote in about a North Carolinian Ponzi scheme.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
We're going to say North Carolinian.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I just really like the way that Jason Isaacs says North Carolinian. I don't know if it's accurate. That's for everyone else.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Pam before Lorazza Pam. That's what I have to say. I love Pam. She's the best. We did get an email from a listener who was like, why haven't you commented on how many Aussies there are on the show? And I'm just like...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Also, I just having done like a smidge of backpacking around the world, I will say Aussies are like the most well-traveled people I've ever met. And so I just always expect to find Aussies wherever I go in the world. And they're the best. But Rachel wrote in to let us know that there was a guy and probably named Rick Siskey.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
who operated a sort of the most infamous North Carolinian Ponzi scheme and house repossessed, all that sort of stuff, and did in fact kill himself rather than face the consequences of his own actions. Anything you want to say about the looming full moon party? We get this incredible closing shot of the boat headed towards the massive full moon. We get a really cool remix.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
It's called the full moon remix of the theme song you can find on YouTube. That was dope. It's really vibey. Anything you want to say about this or what you're hoping from it or anything you've learned about it?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Now that you've dangled the prospect of Fabian at the full moon party in front of me. This is what I'm saying. I just got in, genuinely. I will say this. MonkeyShootout at gmail.com and PressTV at Spotify.com, those inboxes have been full of people's experience going to Thailand. Some of these things... Rob and I will say need not be shared with us.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
And, um, but you guys sure have felt, uh, fine about sharing them. Um, but some other things are just like fun travelogue experiences. And we got emails from a lot of people who've been to the full moon party and just talked about like how bonkers and bananas it is and how fun it is. And, um, just like neon painted people and mushroom smoothies and like all this sort of stuff like that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
So, uh, I'm ready for the bacchanalia to ensue next week. Speaking of Buccaneer, you want to talk about the... How would you, Rob Mahoney, respond? Were you surrounded by children with super smokers in the streets of Thailand?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I wrote down travelers who hate actually well traveling about them. You know what I mean? It's just sort of like they do not actually want any kind of experience.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But then they did and they didn't want that because – Well, no. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
The olds. Can't have the olds. Yeah. For like both Victoria on the boat, having to talk to people she didn't want to talk to. What does she say to Saxon Lockman? Like, you want to stay longer on that boat? Great stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
It's true.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I think she would have preferred the second round of the boat trip, but. Probably not once they get to the full moon party, but Victoria at the full moon party.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Absolutely. What can she replace her lorazepam with? You know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But Victoria and Jacqueline both have this just like really brittle shell, like this really thin shell that can so easily be broken of privilege. Just sort of Jacqueline is so used to... You think about all this all the time when you think about like extremely successful people in like, let's say Los Angeles, where I currently am.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
There's a way in which you were just surrounded and inoculated from like actual real life. And, you know... On the official pod, they were talking about the fact that like maybe Jacqueline has just simply not seen loose skin in the last decade because of like the life she lives in Hollywood.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But yeah, this idea of just sort of like I float through life in this bubble of privilege that I've created for myself via fame or money or whatever it is and how soft and unprepared they are for any kind of challenge to that, which I think is interesting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Okay, so date, come watch me dance. She looks so beautiful and cute in her dancing regalia.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Because Laurie and Kate were like, we're fine with this pool.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
We got our books. We got our drinks. Like, who cares? Yeah. Jacqueline is really interesting. I think...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
that is it's all a powder keg right um but especially Jacqueline when when we met her and they go to the villa I mean we knew it was bullshit from the start when they get to the villa and she's talking to Kate and Lori uh in the first episode she's like do you like your rooms we can take I would sleep in a tree I don't really care I'm not fussy I'm fine like with whatever I'm just happy to be here I don't need any pampering I'm so I'm such a cool girl um
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
And then to see her shriek and run from water guns was like deeply satisfying, honestly.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Do you agree with the Internet that seems to think that Valentin has set them up for that, that he was like, oh, this will fuck with them?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I don't know, payback for being ordered around? Like, bossed around, perhaps?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I think he was more just like, I gotta go find my criminal cohorts so I can keep these women entertained.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Too hot, too cold. Party with some criminals just right, perhaps.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Okay. They definitely didn't rob the boutique in a previous episode? No chance. No chance. Okay. All right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
We have to see it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I lived with a Ukrainian whose name was Alexander, who went by Sasha. And his friend was Alexander, who went by Kusha, I think it was. He had four friends named Alexander. They were all named Alexander or Alexei or something like that. Or Igor or Vlad or whatever. Okay. Welcome to a segment I'm calling Joanna Justifies Her English Degree.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
A.K.A. Rob. Well, actually, one of these books is nonfiction. Rob does not like fiction. Let's see how he does with some nonfiction.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Let's talk about what some books that people are reading. Belinda is reading a book. that I believe Reddit has misidentified and I have correctly identified, but this is what Reddit- You're well-actuallying the well-actualiers. They're very close. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Reddit thinks this book that Belinda is reading at her like sort of private pool right before she does some Googling is a book called Surrounded by Narcissists, colon, How to Effectively Recognize, Avoid, and Defend Yourself Against Toxic People, parentheses, and Not Lose Your Mind, bracket, the Surrounded by Idiots series, end bracket, by Thomas Erickson.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Which sounds like a hilarious great book to put into Belinda's hands. This is a white this is that book is a white cover with these sort of like colored circles in the front.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
What I think she's actually reading is Surrounded by Psychopaths, How to Protect Yourself from Being Manipulated and Exploited in Business, Parentheses, and in Life, the Surrounded by Idiots series by Thomas Erickson. It is the same cover, but it is black, not white. And so I think it is actually another book in the Surrounded by Idiots series.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But Belinda reading Surrounded by Psychopaths, how to protect yourself from being manipulated and exploited in business is exactly what we think Belinda might read after her whole Tanya experience, right? Absolutely. And also Surrounded by Psychopaths. Hmm. Is Greg Gary a psychopath? Should I go Google him? All of that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
That being said, I think everyone at the White Lotus could do with reading Surrounded by Narcissists. I say that without having read any of these books.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Yeah, the Surrounded by Idiots series does not seem like one I really want to... Thomas Erickson seems like a real... smug piece of shit but um you know any inoculation so do many people at the white lotus in fairness Any inoculation we can do against narcissists or psychopaths, we want to do. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
It was. Anything that you nonfiction... You don't read self-help, though.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Not my genre. You like history? What are we... Sports biography? Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Oh, John McPhee. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Yeah, yeah. All right. All right. Lachlan is reading a book called Hunger by Newt Homsen. A pro-Nazi guy. Cool story. Great. Cool. Very cool.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Oh, yeah, that's why he's reading a book. I was like, why is Lockie reading a book? Because they took his iPad. Great point. Okay. And actually, I have to wonder if this is perhaps Piper's book, because not that Piper would read a pro-Nazi book. The book isn't pro-Nazi, just the piece of shit author is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But it just does not seem like something a high school senior would have lying around on vacation. But anyway. Okay. Mm-hmm.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
um in terms of how we can apply this to Lachlan if if that's how intentional they're being with the books which I feel like they usually are on White Lotus um just this idea of like the outer shell of respectability and the darkness that lies within like is there I mean I don't know how you feel about close close uh close magic because of magic
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Is there a darker side lurking inside of the shell of respectability that is Lachlan Ratliff? What do you think?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I love magicians. I'm, I'm pro a magician. I don't have like a spicy magician take. Um, Last but not least, back to Victoria and her duvet on wading into the ocean. Our listener Lauren wrote in about a book that most people read in high school, Kate Chapin's Awakening. It's a story, a short story. And this is what Lauren wrote.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Lauren wrote, the main character in that book taking her own life at the end. Sorry, spoilers for The Awakening. taking her own life at the end by walking out in the sea after experiencing quote an awakening will posey's character experience a similar awakening once her lorazepam runs out and she wakes up to her husband's situation will the result be similarly tragic
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Now, again, I don't think that like we're going to see Victoria standing on the edge of the ocean in like episode three and then literally walk into the ocean at the end of this season. That all feels a bit too telegraphed for what a White Lotus season usually likes to do.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But I think, you know, in terms of metaphorical oceans, metaphorical drowning, that's certainly something that could be on the cards. Any thoughts about that?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
because that's been the vibe all season.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I gotta say, Rob, I really, I love podcasting with old people at The Ringer, but the way that you say, like, group ordeal in this, like, true sort of Texas gentlemanly fashion. It is. It's a hootenanny. It's a true hootenanny, Jo. Versus the way that Molly Rubin talks about things is, like, it's pretty delightful. Yes, some group ordeal feels like it could vary.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
The actors who play Mook and Guy Talk were, you know, the pair they featured in the after episode interview on HBO this week. And Lalisa, who plays Mook, was talking about how ambitious she is, how she wants more. She wants a bigger life. She wants a better life. She wants to leave. She wants to travel. Guy talks like happy to be incompetent at my job here at the White Lotus forever.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
We're just like, yeah, you're right, one party drug away. Anything else you want to talk about?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Can I say one thing on the – that's a great shout. Can I say one thing on the Piper front? Sarah Catherine Hook, who plays Piper, said that this was her favorite episode of the season.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Yeah. And I was just like really surprised by that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
um because she has a great scene with tim on the boat i really like that scene and something that jason isaacs uh talks about on the official pod was that like piper was definitely tim's favorite kid and that he like his son we got that from the gentle caress of her face as he's breathing like a dying rhinoceros like it's it's a weird vibe you know whatever anyway
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
uh that she's a daddy's girl that he loves her most of all all this sort of stuff like that but like if that's sarah's like i don't know i don't know why maybe she was like it was just fun to be on the boat or whatever or it was fun to be around everyone but i was like i would i hope piper has like a bit more of an exciting episode than this one on the cards or is her vibe just like sort of subdued for the rest of the season you know i don't know
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
We've talked about a wet bump on this pod before, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Okay. It's usually for background actors. But this idea that if you do a scene and you get wet during that scene, you get a little bit extra money. It's called a wet bump.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Yeah. I talked about it a lot when I did the podcast on Lost. We talked about the wet bump a lot because they are constantly... Soaked on that show.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Yeah, get your wet bump.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Get your wet bump. All right. Belinda's Googling Tanya. Freeze frame Mahoney strikes again. Was prepared for my question when I texted it to you earlier today. They're making a Tanya biopic.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
This is my... Okay, so my question was, like, earlier, I was thinking, if they kill Greg Gary, then that's the end of the Tanya-Greg-Belinda sort of saga, right? Maybe. But season four, a la Scream 3... Scream 2?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
It's about a movie about the victim of an earlier season. Then we keep Tanya's spirit alive.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
They're making a Tanya Paya pick. Who plays her? Rob Mahoney.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
And so that has me a little concerned. Not that like he will rage out in any kind of way. But something Mal has been talking about in the pod with Bill from the start is like her concern that he will try to prove himself to her in some way that might go bad. Or alternatively, she just simply won't.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Wonderful.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
That is such a wonderful roster. And bless your heart for picking age-appropriate actresses. Here's what I think is going to happen. Oh, sorry.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Ariana Grande. Ariana Grande, who does a killer Jennifer Coolidge impression, famously. Yeah, true.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
uh gets a taste of of that oscar buzz for wicked and it's like i'm gonna go full oscar i'm gonna play this doomed heiress uh and do a whole impression and she's gonna be like fully 20 years younger 30 years younger perhaps than she actually is but that's hollywood baby that's hollywood baby so she could at least be part of the origin story like the prologue right oh sure sure the flashbacks all the flashback sequences at minimum like maybe it's just called young tanya you know honestly
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Me Tanya. Me comma Tanya.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Oh, it's like McBain. Okay. Last but not least. And this is a game only for Rob Mahoney because it has unfortunately been spoiled for me. Rob and I want to issue, I guess, a very mild spoiler warning. This isn't, I don't think, actually a spoiler, but if you are like, hot, hot, hot, spoiler averse, you can bail out of the pod now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
We can thank Donnie Beecham, John Richter, and Justin Sales for their work on the pod, so you make sure to hear that acknowledgement and then you can peace out. But we're about to talk about something that is not like a plot point from an upcoming episode, but something that is sort of out there in the air and we want to talk about it. So, you've been warned.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
A thing that happens on White Lotus, Rob, is that like midway through the season, often a new character, a new actor enters the mix. Tom Hollander in season two, Molly Shannon in season one. In an article in USA Today, it was revealed that a big guest star is coming on the show. We will see them in the next episode, episode five. And USA Today revealed that it is an Oscar winning performer.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
No, not gendered. Actor or actress. Oscar winning... Oscar winner. Next episode. And HBO has kept a lid on who this is. They have not... They asked press who had screeners to not talk about it. Stuff like that. So this is all the information we have. Episode 5. Oscar winner. So Rob Mahoney.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
We've already had... Kiwi Kwan, but that's not who we're talking about. We had a Laura Dern voice cameo in a previous season. Which Oscar winner do you think is coming to White Lotus next and which role do you guess or would you like to see them play?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
It's not the end of the world, but she simply won't pick him in the end because he's not what she's looking for. She's looking for someone, you know, some beefy bodyguard who can take her around the world. So I am, as ever, rooting for Guy Talk.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Oh, yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Okay. Eddie Redmayne with the party drugs at the full moon.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
That's great. All right. That is my attempt at a neutral response to your guesses, but I enjoyed all of them equally as Severance would want me to. Mm-hmm. We'll be back later this week with Severance for sure. The pit question mark when we don't know, but we are recording an episode this week about the pit. So you can either stop or actually start your emails. Press GTV at Spotify dot com.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Press GTV at Spotify dot com with your pit thoughts. We want to hear them. Your pit thoughts.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
You know, especially if you're David Jacoby who sent us, I don't know, a hundred text messages about the pit. So keep them coming. Jacoby, you're the best. Please. Sovereign's emails, pineapplebobbing at gmail.com. Uh, if you guys are on the edge of your seats about it, the AirPods did go to a good home. Our hardworking video producer, John Richter got the AirPods to give to his wife.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
So they went to a good, good home. Um, and, um, that's it. Rob Mahoney, you're the best. And I'll see you two more times. But then after that, I'll see you at the full moon party. Okay. Bye. Bye.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I feel very disappointed in him that he left the gun out. But to go back to your point, Golden Hour...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
mook golden hour lalisa in the with the flowers and the i mean who among us the distraction is very understandable but just just put it back in the safe put it back in the box seriously the bare minimum carry it with you i don't care all right so i have like a kind of a big picture question to start with here we are the midway point of the season i've been hearing a It's interesting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Covering both Severance and White Lotus right now, I really feel like we're at this crux of people have forgotten how to watch television week to week. They sure have. And I feel like people misremember the cadence of previous seasons of White Lotus. And on Severance, that's a different thing we could talk about on the Severance pod.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
But I feel like people are used to maybe watching Severance season one as a binge. And so sort of some of the peaks and valleys of the season. of the plot and the rhythms are, are flummoxing people, but I've heard from plenty of people that they think this season of white Lotus is boring. Yeah. I think season four is sort of, we're ramping up, you know, we're headed towards a full moon party.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
We're here today to talk to you about season three, episode four of White Lotus, Hide or Seek. There's a lot going on on the Prestige feed this week because you and I are doing three whole ass entire Prestige episodes together this week. Rob, what are we covering?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Like I think, I think we're headed towards excitement, but I think, do you think this season is measurably different from any of the previous seasons of white Lotus and, or, or just simply, and are you having a good time with it?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Yeah, it always seems like we I just I remember this from previous seasons that it's like it's a character study show. Right. It's a comedy of manners kind of show.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
with the like a fake mustache on it that makes it a sort of mystery show it's not really what it is but it's like part of the part of the hook uh to get people watching but but it's always been this kind of slow burn and i think if you go back and re-watch or reconsider previous seasons you'll see similar things that being said if people aren't vibing this season that's fine that's your prerogative i'm not here to change your mind i just think it's you know
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
That is completely fair. I want to do a quick section that I'm calling the well actually section, which is just people sort of correcting or weighing in on things. And to be clear, I'm not saying I don't like these emails. If it's a well actually email I don't like, I simply won't be reading it. But on this sort of like, is that...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
jason isaacs and all of his natural splendor or not we did get several emails about this rob this is not what we're here to do we don't need to dwell on this but i will just say no i think we do because i woke up monday morning i you know i just had a very normal one for myself this is not my fault rob you know this is not my fault
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I just want to read my favorite one, which simply reads this. You guys, ellipses, British men are almost always uncut. It's not his. Love, comma, a gay man. So that's how our listener signed his email. That's how I will read it out. I sent that evidence to our pal Mallory Rubin.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
And her counter is that Jason Isaacs, the actor, is Jewish. So no matter what, he might be circumcised anyway. That being said... Bill Simmons has told Mallory and me he has the straight dish on this, which he will be revealing on our Episode 5 podcast. He hasn't told us yet. I don't know the answer. But Bill has got it straight from the, not the source, but like a source. And he knows.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
So the answer will come on the Episode 5 Instant Reaction pod with Bill Simmons.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Stay tuned.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
A Jason approved item. Okay. In regards to the dry, Tim Ratliff just dry necking some pills, which perturbed me. We had several people write in, a concerning amount of people perhaps, to let us know that lorazepam is sweet and will just dissolve on your tongue. Yeah. David wrote, clearly you've never been strung out on Ativan. It dissolves in your mouth without any taste at all.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
So thanks, David, and all the other people who wrote in about this. Now we know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Absolutely.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
A lorazepod? Is that what you want to do?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I think that we should do the White Lotus finale as a lorazepod. I think that sounds delightful to me. All right. And then on the lorazepam front, we got a lot of emails about lorazepam withdrawals and how nasty and sort of instantaneous they are. And the fact that, you know, we were kind of joking a bit about like, okay, we've got
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Larazapam Tim, or Larazatim, as some people are calling him on the internet. Great stuff. Love that for us as TV consumers. Vicky...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
lorazepam withdrawal vicky what's gonna happen there i don't think that mike white is intent on giving us like a harrowing no um dt's uh episode of white lotus but i will just list some early withdrawal symptoms of lorazepam a highly addictive drug that you should never go cold turkey on this has been your psa increased anxiety irritability insomnia sweating tremors
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
That's all stuff that I feel like because we're only that's like one to three days. We're only at the White Lotus for like three more days. So I feel like all of that is something that Parker Posey is completely capable of giving us without like us sending us down into a dark, dark spiral of something.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Well, I mean, I want to talk about that a little bit later, a little bit more. But there's a difference between what they are exposed to on the yacht and the sort of, like, I'm just eating melon all day vibes of her existence at the White Lotus. Well, quite, yes. You know? So I think that, like...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
In addition, of course, Bill and Mallory and I are covering White Lotus on Sunday nights immediately after the episode ends. You can catch that on YouTube or on Spotify or listen to it on a podcast app of your choice. A lot going on on the Prestige feed this week.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
There was way less friction for her waiting back at the resort in terms of social anxiety and that sort of stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Just to get her massage. That's what I'm saying.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
I can't believe she made it through that yacht ride. I was feeling for her. I, like... There are some looks that Parker Posey gives in this episode that are just like instant meme worthy. Like move over Leslie Bibb, squint smile face. Some of these Parker Posey faces are making their rounds.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
And then kind of trying to settle her face and be like, this is fine. I do that. That's what my face does, I've been told quite often.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive and Theories: Rick’s Revenge in Bangkok
Do you want to do a little... killing theory roundup we got we got the tenor of the emails right now around sort of like who who could have died who did the killing who is dead at the end of the season are the exact kind that I like where they're going back to previous seasons and they're like let's look at what usually happens on a white lotus here's the theory
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and piña colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Exciting times for Piper Ratliff. I'm sure everything will go perfectly well for her. Saxon mentions that they are invited on Greg Gary's boat. We'll talk about that a little bit more in a second for this, what he calls a, this full moon, big holiday, which is a huge holiday in Thailand. Every full moon they celebrate with this like massive beach party in the Island.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
That's one over from where the white Lotus is being filmed. And yeah, The description that I found was more than 12 powerful sound systems turn the 800-meter beach into possibly the most popular open-air nightclub in the world once a month. Once a month is a heavy investment for putting on the world's biggest beach rave, but we're doing it every month. Any hopes or dreams for the full moon party?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
If you're Mike White and you're like, we're going to set a season in Thailand, And once a month they have the world's biggest beach rave on this island. How do you, especially since as we've heard over and over again that Mike White, the season came to Mike White in like a fever drug dream when he was in the hospital. So how can you not say like, let's go to a Thai beach rave?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Is this something you're excited for in a future episode of White Lotus?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
But do you think Belinda knows that you're talking about Belinda and our guy Greg Gary? Of course. Not my guy, your guy. Not my guy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
piper at a rave chelsea at a rave i feel like i know exactly what that's like and i love that for her she was born in a rave life's a rave for chelsea absolutely um okay to wrap up the ratliffs as as well as we can inside of their isolated storyline tim ratliff let's go back to lorazepam tim uh we mentioned last week that we've gotten several emails about this concept of like family annihilator
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Which you and I both were like, we don't want it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Does it? A little bit.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Chloe's guy, Greg Gary. Do you think Belinda knows about what happened to Tonya?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
What about the idea of Lorazepam Tim as the body in the water that Zion found? Whether or not that body in the water is dead, we actually don't know. It's true. Certainly floating as if dead, but not confirmed dead necessarily. So could that be Lorazepam Tim having taken a stumble from the outdoor shower into the outdoor pond?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Who is he? Is Tim top of your list? Who's top of your list for like who the body is? Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
All right, Tim, I'm not rooting for you because you seem like you've done some shitty things. And in general, I don't root for rich people who have embezzled money. But, you know, life is long. You didn't vote for Trump, though, did you? Are we really going to talk about Trump tonight? Let's talk about the, the fancies, the blonde ball. Okay. I want to ask you how you feel.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I can't remember if Mal, Bill and I got into like the specifics of this. We talked about this a little bit, but like, I'm really curious about Mike White's decision to like put Trump into this season. Cause of course, last season we got the voter versus non-voter vote.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like if if I let me say this, if I'm Melinda and I know what happened to Tanya.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
conversation um in the in the two couples and that was very like sort of like trump not trump coded for sure way but to put trump's name in there again making this season not knowing how the election was gonna pan out how do you how do you feel about that as a choice
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I am not approaching Greg Gary. No, that's not happening.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Eyes full squints. Oh my gosh. It's so good. Smile, no teeth. Very good stuff from Leslie Bibb. Rob, as a Texan, how do you feel about Texas being invoked in this particular way? Fair.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
you know, I have spent a lot of, I go to Austin a couple of times every year. I love, but I don't, I've never lived in Austin. I'm a mere visitor. So I'm not like trying to make any, uh, broads. Well, maybe I am, but anyway, Joe, go off, say what you've got to say. I love Austin. I love Austin.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I will say I've had the most shocking things that have ever been said to me by a Lyft driver have been said to me by a Lyft driver in Austin.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Just racial stuff. I think I look like I might be receptive to someone saying things that I am not receptive to.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Absolutely. Shout out to a couple of our listeners who wrote in to let us know that, you know, we talked about the voice cameo in episode two. The voice cameo in this episode as the Ratliff lawyer is the podcaster Scott Galloway. He has a really charming anecdote on his own podcast about how Jason Isaacs came over to his house to give him acting lessons and he didn't know anything.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
feels great it's like how people would never offer me drugs because they think i look like a dark uh you know it's just like it's just my life um something that the official podcast brought up that i thought was really interesting is the way that they transitioned inside of this conversation from um talking about religion yeah to talking about trumpism yes and this idea of trumpism as a
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
a kind of religion, a kind of belief system in a way that previous political movements in America have not quite felt as
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
you know cult like is one way to describe it or however you want to describe it but like um this idea of like um the the figure the figure that we follow sort of idea of trumpism and um another thing that i thought was really interesting that uh gia tolentino brought up on the um official podcast is this idea of like when we first meet the blonde blob as as they are described by mike white
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
laurie says it's like looking in a mirror which of course is something that like jacqueline doesn't love to hear from laurie by the way but like um how how mike white really wanted to make it seem like these women are not that different and in so many ways they aren't that different even though we've we've dialed in on certain things that they either share don't share we've got two women who are moms versus a woman who is not a mom or we've got two women who have invested a
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
plastic surgery and stuff like that versus a woman who maybe hasn't woman women who have focused on the career versus not all this sort of stuff so like these various little differences what's the biggest wedge you can drive is it trumpism is it something else um but then at the end of the day how actually similar they are and how interesting i think that is inside of this sort of trump conversation of like
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Lori and Jacqueline are like, oh no, Kate is so different from us. We did not realize how different she is. And then the question is actually how different is a white privileged woman who votes for Trump versus a white privileged woman who doesn't vote for Trump inside of this context? I think that's the question the show is asking.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I think what I have my eye on most inside of this group in terms of things I'm worried about or suspicious about. Yeah. Is Jacqueline has had a few speeches now that seem very much like a I'm a girl's girl kind of speech, like talking about the patriarchal nature of religion or that and the other thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Yeah. Yeah. I don't trust that Jacqueline Lemon is a girl's girl at the end of the day. I do not think that that is her energy at all. And I'm worried about the way in which she's pushing Valentina on this story. And I'm worried about how that is all going to shake out at the end of the day.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
That it was Jason Isaacs or who Jason Isaacs was. It was just like this handsome man came to his house to give him acting lessons. And then he found out it was Lucius Malfoy. But anyway, he got cast because the producers were a fan of him, a fan of his voice. Then he took some swings at this. And they're like, oh, no, podcasters are not the same as actors.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
100%.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Girl, Carrie Coon.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Will you tell me, Rob, given that, like, tell me a little bit more about the way in which the internet exploded when they thought Carrie Coon might be on the table for them.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Interesting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Oh, nice. Carrie knows how to play social media, I gotta say. It's true. I love her. Wong Goggins. I already said on the pod with Bella and Mal how excited I was for Grifter Goggins to enter the chat here. Tell me how you felt for Rick to... step out of the doom and gloom into the con man persona that we are so used to seeing Walton Goggins. What did that do for you personally, Rob Mahoney?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
And then they got him the Jason Isaacs acting boot camp package. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Something, you know, Walton Goggins and Amy Liu would have been doing a lot of interviews around this episode. This seems to be the, like, HBO's, like, this is the Rick and Chelsea episode. You know, I guess because they go to the Snake Show, etc. And they've been talking a lot about, like, sort of the background of Rick and Chelsea.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Goggins has said that they've been together for, like, three years. You know, Amy Liu has said she genuinely believes they're actually soulmates. And that there is this idea that their relationship has not always been this. that this is a very different phase of Rick's life.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
That he is having, I think the way that Goggins put it was like a midlife crisis. And, um, you know, so, so the idea that, that, um, Chelsea's like, come on, what are you doing? Snap out of it. Let's have fun. Is not just like her sort of beating her head against a wall.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Like that there is a version of Rick that she has traveled with before that has been very different from the Rick that she's experiencing at the white Lotus here. And so, um, I like knowing that because I'm just like, girl, what are we doing here?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
But if this is like an unusual moment in the life of a partner who has been matching her energy, if not quite exactly her level of energy, like who could, they're like nuclear power plants that cannot produce that much energy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Scott's been busy knowing a lot about a lot of other things.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I think it's what Chelsea has always wanted from him, which is just sort of like, I see you, you need me. I'm going to be that for you. But something that Amy Lou Wood said on the official podcast that like really kind of blew my mind. She was like, she keeps accusing Rick of being secretive and walled off. You know, all, all this stuff is focused on Rick and what he's hiding.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
She's like, but we actually know so much about Rick and we don't know anything about Chelsea.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
She's just like, she has sort of successfully hidden her, Her life behind this like very bubbly, outgoing, not persona, because I do think that's actually who she is, but just sort of like the way she moves through the world. She's asking other people about themselves and she's got this insatiable curiosity, which means she doesn't ever have to talk about herself.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Which is really interesting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
And then she made it to dinner. Yeah. I mean, no problem. If it were me, I would simply not be leaving the room.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
The dinner would be coming to me. Bill very, very, I think, correctly identified me as someone who seems like they should know things about astrology.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
We contain multitudes, Rob Mahoney.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
None of it's true. Do you know anything about astrology, Rob Mahoney?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
So maybe you'll surprise us.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
What is your sign?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Cancer. I don't know. I'm going to say that like that means something, but I just nod.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Thanks so much for mentioning that. Speaking of emails we got and monkey shootouts, we had a couple emails about Sitala's outfit at breakfast that she's wearing. It's this sort of tan button-down, sort of loose-fitting thing with this black...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
So for the love of coffee, go try them now. Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV Podcast Feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
what looks to be almost like an ink spot uh or some people said they thought it looked like a large bullet hole or one of our listeners dave uh pointed out to me rightly so that i would know about this and i do uh in pirate culture the black spot means you're marked for death
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
uh you receive the black spot it means uh death is coming for you so i'm glad you could bring the pirate expertise you know you may have missed the mark on astrology but no racism rants no but pirate pirate i do have it and uh yeah So the black spot on Sitala, would that be a satisfying death for you this season? Potentially. Yeah?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
do you have a theater kid background no of course not yeah absolutely not but um yeah that's you are good at basketball and i am not we all have our talents okay um We already talked about the dreams. This is the name of the episode. We open with Victoria Ratliff's dream.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
That was really interesting when they were at the snake show, among other things.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Absolutely not.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Absolutely not. But the guy running the snake show who it was like is like a local guy who runs snake shows. I mean, he's a fucking pro.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Absolutely not. He mentions that the Python can kill a big animal. And I think we mentioned this before, this idea that in some of the opening credit images, we've seen sort of a smaller animal taking on a predator. I think specifically I would say in like the Chelsea, the Amy Lou Wood Chelsea title card.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
So like this idea that is that we've had these predators, if you want to say Rick at breakfast or Saxon in the pool or, you know, Tim Ratliff in life or Gary doing whatever it is he's doing. Yeah. Jacqueline Lemon on the on the on the hunt for Valentin, whatever it is like.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
um but are we not paying enough attention to you know the smaller threats who could uh take something on something worth thinking about speaking of smaller threats time for our weekly nice guy talk uh check-in with uh with rob mahoney where are you yeah i just want to read a list of what guy talk was up to this episode okay
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Little Turkey wants to be a rooster?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I hate it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
well yes listen i'm not saying he deserved a promotion i don't think he should be a hollander bodyguard because i you'd be very bad at it i don't i think he'd be bad at it i don't want that for him um but i i just okay we got we got an email from our listener hank and i think it's it's a it's a good perspective to have whether or not you're right i actually don't know if you're gonna be right at the end of the day and i'm gonna look like an asshole defending guy talk i have no idea this girl can't even hang out with her friends without getting cornered by this guy and
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I want to talk to you about this concept of the collective unconscious, which is what Piper and Vicky are talking about when they're talking about the dreams, or mostly Piper is talking about. Any thoughts or feelings on the collective unconscious?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Oh, my God. Whatever.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Okay. You might be right. And I will look like an asshole. And that's a reality that I'm willing to accept. I happen to believe that the Mook and Guy Talk story is very sweet. And I think there's a way in which Mike White is actually, like,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
kind of a romantic in addition to being all these other things obviously we're rooting for Chelsea and Rick to figure it out but our listener Hank wrote in just to sort of put some Hank who says he's from sort of a similarly like his family's from a similarly like non-urban small Southeast Asian village environment
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
uh he said where everyone is locally employed service worker can tend to not be a farmer or hard laborer the still pervasive historical context of parents approving matches and stable income being quite enough for a satisfactory marriage shouldn't be discounted as just quote nice guy vibes whether or not mook is looking for an exotic baddie a la season two's portia is separate from this context it could simply be mike white's own creative liberty and i dare say personal injection into an otherwise ho-hum but stable lifestyle just giving a perspective as someone's whose ancestral roots are part of that world
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
So this idea that like the conversation that Mook and Guy Tuck had at lunch in a previous episode where he was like talking about his mom and they've known each other forever.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Yeah. And it's like on the one hand, from our sort of 2025 American perspective, we're like, is this the move? But, you know, perhaps in the environment that they live in, that is the move, you know, so.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I don't think she jumped at it. I just don't think she said hard no. No.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Okay. We also saw him leave an offering of bananas at a shrine. Yeah. And I thought that was very cool. The four-headed god. Yeah. Which is called The Erewhon Shrine, which has nothing to do with really expensive smoothies that you can get in LA. Okay. Belinda and Porchai. Yes. Speaking of love stories to believe in. Hello. How are you feeling about this?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Priceless, honestly.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
And then he like sort of, you know, has this awkward little goodbye with her. Pornchai has had too much, aka like one drink. One beer. Too much for him. And then Belinda hears something in her villa. Is that what we were meant to believe? Yeah. Not sees something, right? Is she hears something?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
This is like a Carl Jung joint, a Jungian idea.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I know I was going back there. I was like, am I supposed to see something out the window? Is there a shadow? And I think it's just a noise. And I don't know what that noise is. You know, one has to worry that it's Greg Gary up to no good, but or a monkey with a gun. Hunky with a gun.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Or a snake. Okay, how do you feel about Chekhov's toilet snake being introduced into this episode as a potential thing that could kill you?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I used to read a lot of Dave Barry columns and he wrote one about alligators, baby alligators coming up out of the sewer. What? Like in Florida.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I could not tell you, and perhaps he made them up, but that, yes, I will say I haven't had dreams about them, but I have had thoughts about toilet gators. It might be something that is untrue, but it's something that Dave Barry wrote about that I believed in.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
He showed out and he showed up. And I love that for him. This idea of the collective unconscious is common to all human beings. He believed the collective unconscious is responsible for a number of deep seated beliefs and instincts such as spirituality, sexual behavior and life and death.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I think this could not quite possibly be clear as a metaphor for him feeling like he's in a cage and needs to break out. People have been noting this snake motif because there was first the snake choker that Chelsea was looking at in the boutique during the smash and grab.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Chloe, do not put that snake choker on even if you were part of the of the robbery. OK. So there's the snake choker. And then, of course, there is the snake that literally bites her inside this episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Something that Amy Lou Wood said in an interview, she was like, basically, Chelsea's the kind of person who goes through life and see snakes and just embrace them without any care of the worry of the danger that they might present. She's just like, oh, you're a snake. I want to hug you. Never mind your poisonous thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
But can she fix Rick? Can Amarito fix Rick? What are we going to do?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
No, no, no. Go ahead.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
So, it's, it's more about the nature, but this versus nurture, but this idea that your nature is somehow passed down through the generations it's sort of imprinted on you. And I think that's really interesting to think about especially in terms of what we talked about last week in terms of
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
It really strikes me as... Satisfaction, by the way, as a lot of people put it out, is, like, iconic, like, dual language. Like, I demand satisfaction. Like, I demand a duel.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Like, this was a dog. Yes. Dual.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Oh, there you go. Also true. But... But I think that Rick, I just really fundamentally feel like Rick is someone who is at a crossroads. And on one branch of the road is Chelsea. And on the other branch of the road is Jim Hollinger, Bangkok, satisfaction. And one is a good choice and one is a bad choice.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
And I genuinely don't know, based on previous seasons of White Lotus, what choice Rick is going to make. I'm rooting for him to take the Chelsea branch of the road. But I've rooted for so many characters in White Lotus that they have disappointed me. You can't do it. I don't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I'm very worried about everyone, and that's exactly where we should be. Okay, to wrap up, we got this fun prompt from our listener, Sean, which may or may not be tangentially related to an upcoming episode of The Rewatchables Who Can Say, but Sean says, between Jennifer Coolidge and Parker Posey, it seems like Mike White really excels at dipping into the Christopher Guest mockumentary talent pool.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
which two christopher guest stars would you like to see in season four one hotel staff and one guest and just for people who are listening in case you don't know the great filmmaker christopher guest he made things like waiting for guffman a mighty wind best in show uh this is final make spinal tap um and uh for your consideration and mask us a couple other things so um
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
And he has a stable of actors that he likes to use. Jennifer Coolidge being a repeat offender, Parker Posey as well. Parker Posey in Waiting for Guffman is one of my favorite things I've ever seen.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
They do. Jennifer Coolidge, sneaky star, obviously. Tanya being crucial to all three seasons of White Lotus. Double Emmy Award winner Jennifer Coolidge. So Rob Mahoney. Yeah. Of the classic Christopher Guest stable. Who are you picking to check in at the White Lotus and who are you picking to work at the White Lotus?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
the roles or the identities or the positions that these people find themselves in and can they break out of them or can they not? Can Piper be different from her family or is she doomed to just be Ratliffian like the rest of her life? What about these lessons that Vicky has to impart on them about what does or does not designate a trashy rich person?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Don't you remember me? I talk about beans a lot. Is that not interesting to you?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
She's talking about heritage beans. She has a lot to say. Okay. So you've got Fred Willard as a guest. Who do you have working at the White Lotus?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I almost picked Bob Alabama. I was really hoping you would pick Bob Alabama. How can you not?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I have chosen for my guest Michael McKean of Better Call Saul and other fame, obviously. I just think he would do a really good job as a disgruntled guest at the White Lotus.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
yeah patriarch of the family comically disgruntled yes um giving real chuck vibes from better call sell and then uh john michael higgins as as a hotel manager i love john michael higgins i think he's a really stealth
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
like lethal performer in these in these christopher guest movies and uh also he's done a lot of great voice acting work uh you might know him from legends of korra among other things and i just think as like a hotel manager who was like so good at putting on the like smarmy front while actively hating you um i think he would be absolutely killer at that so
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Neither of us went for Eugene Levy or Catherine O'Hara. A couple obvious picks, Jane Lynch, anything like that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
And so I'm good. And also hotel management quite recently. Very true.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I agree. Okay, if you have any thoughts about Christopher Guest regular who should show up in White Lotus, I'd love to hear it. MonkeyShootout at gmail.com or PrestigeTV at Spotify.com. Anything else you want to say about this episode or White Lotus in general before we go? Rob Mahoney?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
She's been reminding me of Kristen Ritter a lot.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Not energy wise, but looks wise for sure.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I hear you're a douche. Isn't that what she says to him?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Is she into it or is he a mark? I can't tell.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Yeah. He definitely looks wealthy and that is something that she seems interested in. So love that for her. I don't know. Are you rooting for those two crazy kids?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
You know, like these are all, you know, important questions. Can you can you correct your posture to break out of your people pleaser status? Like all of this idea is really rich inside of the Mike White universe.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
great okay so that does it for season three episode three of the white lotus uh robin i'll be back at the end of the week to talk more severance exciting um we should note that bill and al and i are also covering white lotus immediately after the episode ends on sunday nights you can watch all of this stuff one note on that you guys mentioned in the last sunday pod vis-a-vis guy talk
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
So you haven't seen the art we've created for it yet?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
You are but one, Rob. Seriously. Okay. Well, we'll let Bill know that's your formal polite pass. Let him down gently, please. Okay. So you watch all of those, including Rob's new show. What is it? Creep Detector?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Creep Radar.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
on the ringer tv channel on youtube or on spot in spotify uh you know you just open the thing in there it's us talking um so uh that is what is going on also we hear you we will be back to the pit we cannot tell you exactly when but we will be back
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
um and thank you to donnie beacham for this episode to john richter who was like literally breaking his back to put out all this video content for you guys to cta for being the best and helping out this morning and uh justin sales always the guy uh we'll see you soon bye
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I do want to just, we don't have like a ton of emails to get to this week, but I do want to skip to this one that you just mentioned, Tim, taking the Larazban. Larazban, Tim, maybe my new favorite TV character of all time. I'm a big fan. I can't wait to see where we go. I want to talk to you about his showering habits in a second, but...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Jackie, our listener Jackie wrote in, call me crazy, but Tim Ratliff dry swallowing a pill is way more unhinged than Rick releasing a bunch of venomous snakes. I am an Australian, though, so maybe a matter of perspective. Dry swallowing a pill. Would you do it, Rob Mahoney?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
There's something just really uncomfortable to me watching Tim just sort of snap his head back as he dry swelled the pill. I don't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Yeah. Tim Ratliff. is making great use of the outdoor shower at the villa.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
We're here to talk about White Lotus, Season 3, Episode 3, The Meaning of Dreams. Rob, how are you doing?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I really agree. How do you feel about an outdoor shower from Mahoney?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Feels too vulnerable to you, do you think?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Okay. I really want to talk about Piper Ratliff, actually, sort of more than anyone else. But what do you want to say about the Ratliffs? And I'll get to my Piper takes later.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Well, no. He wants to... Okay, sorry.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
But he does want the big dogs to respect him. He does? And that's, you know, no one's a bigger dog in his mind than his dad. He's the biggest dog. He is. Yeah, Tim...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
the unraveling uh that we're seeing here is sort of something i was really hoping for because um i was just talking to our pal van lathan about he's been speed binging white lotus season one and season two because he's obsessed with season three and is like i can't watch any more season three i'm out and i was like go back and watch the previous season this
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Gosh, no. We've already been through Rob Mahoney Anxiety Dream Corner on a different pod. That's true. We've already talked about that. Do I have a recurring anxiety dream?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
so he has in the last like i don't know 48 hours or something but he was talking to me yesterday about the great unraveling he was he was like having a slow hang with season two and then he was like he called it like the great unraveling and i think that that is something that is we know is so key to every season of white lotus this is just like watching armand unravel or watching you know whoever it might be um aubrey plaza's character in season two if you want to if you want to call that an unraveling and i do um and so this tim
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
eyeballing tim from the start as the person who would be the funniest to watch unravel um and getting that so quickly in the season uh it's i think it's only up from here honestly with with a lot of promising possibilities you know it's i just don't think we're gonna get the tsunami joe we're gonna get the tsunami of the soul right we're gonna we're gonna get tim ratliff being the man standing in front of the wave at the end of the day i think is what might happen
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Metaphorically.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
um yeah i mean that feels like the least of saxon's potential crimes in this show but i think it's definitely on the table for sure um also on the lorazepam front uh one of our listeners chris wrote in you know because because vick says vicky says they're not addictive i just take them when i need them this is not true
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
This is deeply untrue about lorazepam, which is not, Chris wanted to let us know, is not a sleeping pill, even though Tim is using them to get his nap reps in. This is an anti-anxiety medication. This is sort of like a quick acting sort of brief window. Are you afraid of flying? Take this lorazepam as you like, you know, as you're taking off and you will make it through the flight. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Which is perhaps why Tim is like housing them because the window is small. Yeah. So how many pills does Victoria have left in her bottle? I have questions about that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Yeah, that'll be so interesting because it's one thing to watch lorazepam Tim become more and more unhinged.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
I can't even imagine her. no who is she i can't wait to find out um all right so let's talk about piper and and one of our listeners laura pointed this out and i think it's it's really worth ruminating on this idea of the the piper archetype that we've gotten a version of each season on this show um And she points out like Paula was Sydney Sweeney's friend in the first season.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
And she mentioned Harper Aubrey Plaza's character in the second season. This person who's almost like a stand in for the audience who sort of like sees the hypocrisy, sees the shitty behavior.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
calls it out you know piper has that great line about what the white lotus actually is and you know right then the uh the blob blob come in the the fancies come in and they're lululemon yoga like you know piper's piper's got a keen eye on everything but what usually happens in a season of white lotus to those characters is that mike white shows them
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
No, I'm not a snake dreamer, but what a fun thing that would to be. No, I can't remember my dreams and I think that's a blessing. I think mostly my dreams are like awkward, socially anxious interactions. I think those are my usual nightmares. Nothing primal or elemental or anything like that. Do you know?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
like exposes them as sort of as fallible, as vulnerable to the temptations of the White Lotus experience or to shitty behavior or anything like that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
Yeah. And I don't feel like Mike White's treatment of them is that he's like punishing them for their behavior, but just showing that we all are in a very similar, you know, luxury yacht. If you want to look forward to next week's episode. So like. What do you see coming for Piper, who we got a little bit more information on when she went to go visit the monastery?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
It's also very it's very surface like so this idea it seems to be that Piper wants to do a program however long she's going to stay there. We don't know but this is not what she has pitched to her parents as to why she's there. So she wants to do a program where presumably she stays at the monastery for some period of time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
And if if it were me I would want to see where are we sleeping at the monastery. Reasonable. Yeah. What's their daily schedule like? What is all of that? And it is very, yes, I think white girl privileged to be like, I'm going to go to a monastery in Thailand and everything is going to be better. And I'm so enlightened. And I don't know anything about the practicalities of what this actually is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group
That sounds absolutely correct to me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Or just like fess up. Go tell Fabian. Go tell your boss. Like, I'm sorry I lost the gun. And this is the theme. I risk Mook finding out. That's exactly it. Like, this is the theme. And this is why he continues to be such a strong candidate for being involved in something tragic at the end. Like, he is in such a dire strait in this stretch of the episode. And yet, when Mook walks by...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And smiles at him. He kind of can't help but get swept up in her beauty. Can you blame her? No, I can't blame him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
She's so beautiful. She's so adorable. But then, like, the shift change comes. Yeah. And the guy replacing him is like, anything I should know? He's like, nope. And we get it. He's invested in upward, forward mobility to impress Mook. And so he's not going to reveal something that leads to him being fired and jeopardizes his courtship. But that's going to probably lead to somebody getting killed.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I did.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. I was like, my guy also thinks every podcast should be sponsored by Imodium. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yep.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Which one? The table scene or back at the villa?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
It's one scene.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
There's no thesis? There's no book club?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Great combination. This was really like the Vicky experience in miniature because she is, you know, ultimately really embarrassing herself in multiple respects, like revealing yet again that she doesn't actually know anything about her own child.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
She doesn't know anything about her own child, that she is a practicing Buddhist, that this is something that's important to her, why it would be important to her. She is just revealing... You want to live in Taiwan. Prejudice after prejudice, like total ignorant person.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And yet we kind of can't stop like laughing in a fit of hysterics as we watch this performance because it is such a finely tuned and perfectly calibrated bit of social commentary.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
It's tough. Crowded Field.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Five minutes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
It's great stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I actually sometimes find it most amusing to listen to her just with like normal words. Like the way she just said have no purpose because she's drawing it out over like 45 seconds even though it's three words. That's the best.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
How did it make you feel? You know, you have often been known to say sex is a poetic act. It's a metaphor. What was it like to see yourself on television in this way?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I mean, he's going to have a tough time later in bed when he hears what. she has to say about facing the feedback back home, you know? She says people are going to say we're bad parents and he goes, I wouldn't worry about that. There's a lot of other things to worry about.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I have the same question for you guys. Did you... Obviously, he's in his haze, right? He's in this cloud for so many different reasons. On the heels of the phone call, learning he's going to go to jail, the drugs, all of it. But did you... Were you expecting at all that he would actually say, Piper, I support you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
You should move abroad and live your life away from the blowback of my impending shame. That he would actually welcome a member of his family. I was kind of expecting that a little bit. Though, I don't... Not fully, because the other part of this is like... it's one more defeat where he has to like, yet again, grapple with the fact that his family is just shattering around him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
His legacy is shattering around him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
To me, it's just totally imbalanced.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Specifically because he doesn't have his phone. Like, that's actually part of why that feels possible. That he doesn't have the latest update that, like, everything's fine. He's got a gun to his temple. If Vicky hadn't opened the door, is he alive? Really good theory.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And then makes it through the next couple days, finds out he's okay, and goes back to the same life of privilege and getting away with white-collar crime.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And so being circumcised, to me, is part of the proof that that is actually his dick.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
What do you mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
In response to that. No, I'm responding specifically to her point about us getting... I thought you had more stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
You have to sit down and ask yourself, what is desire? Yeah, what is desire?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I was responding to Joanna's point on circumcision.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
You're making us wait to do it here. Yeah. The interviews off of episode four are out. And so I would say we know the answer simply because not a single interview has included the line, it was a prosthetic, which everybody says when they wear a prosthetic. So it's real. That's my deductive reasoning. What's the answer?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I think because they didn't mention that it was a prosthetic, it's real.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I'd still say it's real.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Is everyone current on Shorzy season four? What? Is that technically the helicoptering? Helicoptering is a big plot in Shorzy season four. Or do you have to be holding your dick and swinging it for it to be helicoptering?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I mean, he's an Oscar winner. He was nominated for Oscars two years in a row, right? My personal...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
This is what I'm asking. It would look last to me. The lasso? Or he's just shaking it. Is that a helicopter?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
but like personal favorite would just be Moon which is a movie I absolutely love and think he's unbelievable also Box of Moonlight which is like a really early Sam Rockwell that I really really love that's like really unhinged Sam Rockwell I guess as the house of our duo we would have to say Justin Hammer One of the genuine bright spots.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
We sure did.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I thought we were going to get another dick at the end in the Jacqueline sex scene, but we didn't. Not yet.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, he like looked down right before he took off his pants and I was like, we are about to get another dick for the last.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Condolences.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Hey, I support everybody making the choice that they think is right for them. Good for him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Boy, were they.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
The Magnarfen. Magnarfen.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Can we hear you doing exercise with tires? Exercise with tires? They're all like, oh, yeah, we were dancers. And Kate's like, I played softball. And he's like, I did flip tires. Exercise with tires?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
If I tried to dance like that, I would drop dead.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Like. But overall. Shooking him in and then kicking him. That was wonderful. Great stuff. Great stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. Yeah. Electric. Did you guys think when Jacqueline was looking at the three women watching that she was like, they know I'm famous. It's not just that they think I'm hot and I look great. No. They know I'm famous and they want she wanted this to get back to Harrison.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Genuinely scary moment from Alexei in that stretch. That was alarming. Kate wants to go. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
They're available for a short time only. So for the love of coffee, go try them now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. PJ's at the pool party. Yeah. I mean, she literally says later, like, we're old ladies. And Jacqueline is, of course, appalled and horrified. And that's the exact idea that she's rebelling against.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. Wakes herself up to be like, shut the fuck up. We are not. She's dozing off against the pool chair. She, like, barely could keep her eyes open when she was about to have sex, which was obviously quite disturbing. That was alarming.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
They sure do.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
We'll go to... Quite an edited sequence cutting back and forth.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. So there's another member of the group still, which is interesting. And obviously they have this larger social circle there because of the three women who come up to the table to yell at them. Yeah. Yeah, I think Vlad is really the key there because Val and Alexi are just a little too... You couldn't really even for a second stop thinking that they were working them.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And Vlad in some ways is the scariest. He's the muscle. I mean, they all have great muscles. But he was just such effective comic relief that it was impossible not to enjoy those scenes. And the odd man out in each of the trios, the fact that Vlad and Kate are paired... Was a great touch.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
He's a liar.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Great point.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
False advertising.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I think it's like that... I feel better now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. Let's not look too closely. He told Guy Talk last episode, like, your job is to protect the hotel. So this is his version of that, right? It's about the... His greeting to the guests was the most effusive, like, this is the finest hotel in the world that we had seen through three seasons. And we heard when he sat down with Sitala, like, this kind of thing was not encouraged in my home.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
This is like a haven of some sort for him that is distinct from where he came before. And... It struck me as, like, very contrary to last season. Like, we have three really distinct versions of the hotel manager. And last season, like, if we think about the response to... I like the shading in the suitcase. It's honestly, like, everyone is in Armand's shadow.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Everyone is in Armand's shadow, for sure. But, like, when Lucia and Mia...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
penetrated the hotel phrasing yeah in sicily yeah it was like this is an affront to decency and dignity so fabian is in the exact opposite he's like this is actually a kind of haven for depravity come here with your sins and be who you are and we will protect that it's nice to get different versions but you think you think he's being set up for what's your fabian theory i'm just raising a flag
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
There's somebody in there who's... No, I think Valentin is leading a crime run into the hotel. I think we have that box. Maybe.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
could be maybe he's just a good butler let's take care of his clients he went in like the span of mere hours I believe across those two episodes from being like I can't leave at all to like yeah sure not only will we take you to the club but we'll definitely come back and like fuck in your pool and in the room also wasn't he the one that did the yeah the energy healing he's an energy healer it is something I do I thought that Fabian also basically you love Valentin he's your guy he's a lot of good qualities he's grown on me as well um
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I thought that Fabian was basically acting like a pimp. That to me was the much more sinister thing, right? He's just basically saying. He's taking a liking to you. Yeah, he's like kind of saying to Belinda, like this rich loser who has a really hot girlfriend, like maybe wants to fuck you. And she's like, he wants to kill me. And Fabian is like, no, no, no.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Like, yeah, rich, high profile guy, go for it. They think he killed his wife. I'll send you a link. That was a great line. Please do, because I'm having a hard time following. I actually like that it's like a meta commentary on this show is supposed to be standalone each season, and now we're three seasons into one plot line carrying across, and is it actually something that is a touch convoluted?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Orange eye. Love it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
as a stay the night fuck me tonight because my son's coming tomorrow is definitely a move yeah it's kind of a weird one but it's a move I did find her stumbling super nervous like do you this is consent do you guys do that here we just started very charming I think they're very sweet I just think I think if you're if you're struggling out there maybe there's a murderer after me will you stay the night could be a move to try
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Some life advice that young Lockie is going to use on Saxon in mere moments. And Chloe loves young guys.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I would say his brother smooched him. He didn't break the kiss. He seemed very confused. Right away.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Now he's a fucking monk. Well, I think this works yet again on both levels. It's like another death harbinger for Chelsea. We've had one, at least one, every single episode. But also, Chelsea, who we love. We get the amazing, he's like my child, he's 50. You're passing your baby Yoda. It's like, he's 50.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But the Chelsea responding to broken, brokenhearted with what's worse, that actually does tell us something about her. What's worse than being broke? Yeah. Like she is now accustomed to a certain lifestyle. Right. So losing Rick is losing that lifestyle. And that is not something that she wants to.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I don't think of her that way. That's why it struck me because it's like even Chelsea. I thought she was saying character who we think of as kind of like I didn't take them on anything either.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Sure. There's that. But like, I think it's interesting that Chelsea feels really separate from that. Like she's pure. She's driven by love and connection. And yet, like when we get all of the Villator, she's the one who's like, we should always live like this. Like even Chelsea has been corrupted by tasting a lifestyle.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
For sure. I'm not saying that's her motivation. I'm saying that like even somebody who's not motivated by that is swept up in it at a certain point.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
It definitely seems like he's coming back because Rick asked him to keep the next night free.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Give it a go.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I think I have one life. That's it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, and that, like, very shortly after that, Saxon's response, because that was, like, the nominally about the beer, right? Who would say, oh, I need you to, like, pace yourself. Let them get messy. I'm a senior, bro.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And then, you know, shortly thereafter, Lockie, like, immediately takes the pill from Chloe, and Saxon is horrified, and you have one beat where you think, well, it is technically his job as the older brother to be like protecting him, make sure he's safe. But really, there are two things in the mix there.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
One, he, Lockie is just not listening to the, he's not following through on the plan that Saxon just said. But more broadly then, Saxon just has to confront time and time again across this episode. Like, Lockheed's his own person. He operates outside of Saxon's control.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And not only does he operate outside of his control, he is preparing to conquer Saxon, like to turn this around on him completely, to be the one who is in control of his situation in a way that Saxon is not prepared for. Do you have siblings?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I feel like we're going to see him in episode six when Rick... executes his con or attempts to and confronts Hollinger. And he plays the director.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
He plays the director and that's it. And then Rick goes back and finds Chelsea in whatever state that she is in after everything that happened on the yacht.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Went to scratch her ass while Jacqueline was fucking her dude.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I mean, didn't seem like it was over, right? I think that Lockie, it was... Saxon, like, rubbing his hands in his eyes... He's bleary-eyed. He's confused. He's like, what's happening? Speaking of lack of consent. Yeah. What is happening? The girls are laughing, but Saxon looked genuinely disturbed by what was unfolding. Is that because he's like, wait, this is not okay?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Or is that because he's like, what am I feeling? But the single most striking shot in the entire episode to me is Lockie's face after that. Because he's just like experiencing a moment of not only desire, but like power. He feels proud. Yeah. He's like, I took the thing I want. You've been telling me to and I did. And it was really fucked up and weird.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I would like to ask you guys where this falls. We'll keep it just to HBO Sunday nights on your HBO Sunday night incest power rankings.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That's number one. Where would you put this compared to like— I think that's one, two, and three. Well, I mean, what about Jimmy and his mom?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, sure. It's true. Jimmy and his mom boardwalk. That's tough to match. This is the research ballet I was doing this last week.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Exactly. Octavia and Octavian on Rome. That's a great one. Obviously, the list of thrones and... Did they do anything on Curb? The list of thrones and House of the Dragon alone, you know, we could get dozens deep. Obviously, Daemon and Rhaenyra. This doesn't even really crack the top five. Doesn't even crack the top ten.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Schwarzenegger's great a character I hate I hate this guy they're putting him in this extremely vulnerable place in a way that like makes me really invested in what happens next for him even like he got peer pressured into doing drugs like he didn't want to do the drugs he did we have everything you know we had the moment earlier in the season where Tim was like I don't do drugs and Saxon's like me neither and Piper's like dude you crush Adderall all the time and he's like just to be
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
do work just to be good at my job. We're seeing what's happening with Tim. Like these, these men say they don't do this thing and then they become swept up in a very alarming way and something that they're quite susceptible to. So there was just a lot of like stuff in the episode where Saxon and not a character we had any empathy before previously is like in this deeply vulnerable place.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I thought in terms of where we cut off and like that point about not knowing what comes next, these are not incest examples to be clear. These are not incest examples.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But because we don't know, like, do they end up sleeping together? Does something happen after this?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
There was a little bit of a, like, E2 Mama Tambien or, like, Challengers aspect to it, right? Where you're just, like, again, remove the incest from it. In theory, that sexual situation is supposed to be about somebody else. And then... Oh, a thousand percent. Those two friends or figures end up being the ones who gravitate toward each other.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I don't think so, ultimately. Because at the end of the day, Chelsea, when she said, when they had the funny but alarming classic White Lotus conversation about, well, you think he'd kill you? No. Oh, Gary would kill me. What did Chelsea say? She's like, I just actually would feel really bad.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. But she feels really different and a reason that draws us to her from Jacqueline, where Jacqueline's like, I feel betrayed. So now I will hurt this person. Harrison.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. They're all complex.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yep. And Goggins is like, still miss that pussy, man. Wild. Yeah. Incredible stuff from Goggins.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
No.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
To gain access to her husband, Jim Hollinger, who he believes killed his dad, but probably is his dad. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That was what was so sad about him trying to compel Saxon to turn over his phone by being like, we can figure out how to provide something more and having to confront that he didn't actually feel like he had that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But that book, we talked about this last week, but that book that Piper is reading and that comes back into play in this episode so memorably, the quiz that we hear is, yeah, identity is a prison.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
No man is spared this prison.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. But how long is the flight from Maui to Thailand?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I don't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Take them a while to get there, I guess. Well, no, actually.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
One day and one hour, according to Google.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Citizens of the world.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Well, like where do they start? Can't go to Australia. Had to leave the States. Like the West and the South. Either way around. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. Oh, no question. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Maybe this whole season is just a crazy fever dream. I'm sure he'll talk about it more after the season or maybe not. But the fever dream part of it feels like all of the particular trappings of how to interrogate the core themes that he's been interested in since day one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
So I think that's actually what's interesting to me about the Rick and Frank conversation moving forward is like, what impact does what he just heard have on Rick? You know, the nature of desire in their relationship Circumstances is very different. But Rick is also a character who's being driven by desire, right? Like vengeance is a type of desire.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
The desire to avenge your family, to enact an exact revenge on the person you think has wronged you. Does what he hear, coupled with the conversations he's had with Chelsea, coupled with the sessions that he had with Amrita... balance him and pull him back when he's staring down the barrel of the gun looking into Jim Hollinger's eyes? And also this question of identity and who am I?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
It's like it's episode five and it's... I mean, this is what we talked about last week, like exactly this, like that he would attempt it or start to attempt it, but something would halt him, which is, you know, exactly what happened.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
He hasn't? Thanks for checking in.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But it gives us that moment earlier in the season of him being driven to that point of... supreme desperation, feeling like he had no other path forward. And then now three episodes to potentially make a different decision.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. Did you know the second... Because you had both, like...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But he is in some ways right. His grandfather was a governor in North Carolina. Yeah, exactly. He's like from this like proud line of Carolinian greats. And it was interesting to hear Vicky describe him as a Boy Scout last episode to Piper. You know, you don't know how lucky you are. And then to hear him say to Piper this episode, like I literally was an
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
altar boy and to to have before he sings beautifully and then we get to hear that him again yeah um but yeah like that it the characters are also different but the fact that they are all grappling with that question of who am i who do i who has the world made me feel i have to be and then are any of them actually able to rebel against that you left out one question please god tell me what to do please god tell me what to do who am i what should i do yeah
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That gun being in that room still makes me really nervous. Like, I do not feel like we're. Because you're like, a monkey's going to come in. Well, I'm like, is Saxon going to shoot Lockie? Like, is Saxon going to find that gun and be like, what did you do to me? Like, that's completely possible. Poison smoothie out. Poison smoothie's still in.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But we didn't know. And, like, before that, though, we had talked earlier in the season, someone will show up in the middle of the season. There will be that little, like, bit of garnish that you didn't know. And we knew because of two prior seasons of White Lotus to expect something, but we had no idea what shape it would take inside of the season.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
The poison smoothie remains in until the moment the final credits roll.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But like, you know, we are only five episodes in, five episodes is a lot, but mere five hours ago, we were like, Lockie, this beautiful innocent in the center of this family tug of war.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. Right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And Fabian tells Hollinger's guards to shoot the Interpol agents because he's like protect the hotel. Protect the hotel. That actually to me like one thing that I didn't think totally tracked in this episode. Belinda going to Fabian for help, sure, but, like, you can go call the cops on your own, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
She doesn't actually need him to do that for her, but, like, delaying her maybe doing that until we're closer to the events of the finale.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, but I think that that supports the Joe's theory, because if she delays and it takes her a day or two to work up the courage to do that or she does it next episode. Really good theory, though. I like it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And then when we had the Rick phone call, we're like, who could that be? But the second that you saw him, like, when Goggins goes down to the lobby and it's Sam Rockwell, right away do you know that you're In for the night of your life. In for a ride.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Guy Talk and Mook are going to. So a bunch of stuff there. So we think Guy Talk will spot the robbers there then.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
No question.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Will she see the text? She's going to finish scratching her ass. Yeah. See him leave in the morning?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
We have Vicky and Tim going to the monastery with Piper. They told her they would go the next day.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But Tim, on the heels of praying to God for guidance, is about to head into a monastery. Like, what impact might that have on him? I'm really excited about this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
He might pretend he doesn't because he's ashamed, but he will remember. There has to be, there has to be fallout. He's got to remember.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
With the twirling montage. curling evil mustache with her strand of hair. To your point about the predator and the prey, the fact that like, it's not just that Locky became the predator, it's that Saxon handed him all the tools and like has to confront that now. And he like Lockie has become the person that Saxon wanted him to be. But Saxon is the one who ended up suffering.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I don't think so. I think this is an awakening for him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Grim at Mallory. Quite grim. Not like incest is my thing every single day of the week, but like sexual predation is my thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I'm going for what I want. Like, people are here to use me. Hopefully not. Or for me to use them. Like, hopefully not. Hopefully he's still like, you know what? I could go to just NC State after all.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, I am really excited about that too. I think I'm most invested in the Ratliff storyline at this point. Wow. What happens on the boat?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I tell you guys, we step back and I tell the two of you, we will see Parker Posey's Victoria Ratliff enter a monastery in Phuket, Thailand next week. That sounds amazing. That sounds great. And you say I'm prepared for the best hour of TV of my life.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
How are the fingers? The fingers still work?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Phuket? She will for sure say something.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Then she would have to know they were in Thailand in order to say that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
All right. It's going to be a good one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Same.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. And Shane is there and Rachel comes back to him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
There was that like very ominous cut to Piper. It was so weird. She's meditating alone and her brothers are having a night of debauchery. It was such a weird cut to her.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
What's interesting, and this is ultimately the sign of a really well-conceived and structured and executed season, is that I think you're both right. It feels five-eighths of the way through that everybody could be involved as an impetus in what happens and potentially die or be harmed in some way, hurt in some way. Because all of those possibilities feel...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
He had some commentary on the last episode. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
like they've been appropriately set up. And then also like at the end of the day, probably the damage will be contained to a few people, even if it is a shootout that is caused by someone getting spooked by a monkey or a lizard.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Though I think what you're saying does like still make, we've probably talked about this the most throughout the season, like the Guy Talk corner of the story or the Valentine corner of the story, the most ripe for like the contained damage. If a Russian dies?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
A lot of dick talk. A lot of dick talk.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And that's part of what's interesting about it. It's not really about the twist or the shock. Like throughout season two, I mean, throughout season one, we're watching Armand spiral and we're watching Shane and Armand on a collision course.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And then throughout season two, the number of moments where there was some reason to parse whether Tanya was headed towards some doom or Greg was the cowboy or this and that, it's like it all was pointing toward the place it went.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
We've only had two other seasons.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
So he could truly surprise us by doing something actually distinct from what our expectation now is. Or... Maybe that is part of the commentary of the show.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That's not always what happens on White Lotus. Quinn left. He ran away at the airport and he went and frolicked in the ocean.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, Molly.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
The little candy in the baggy party drugs. I'm Molly. I'm old.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Just sensational stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I think that those points are all part of the same text, though. And even though this season is set in Thailand and Buddhism is a central, actual, active aspect of the text, like it's not subtext, that's been there since the beginning, you know, minute one of the show and has been a through line across all three seasons. Like, what role does desire play in your life?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And what decisions do you make when you're guided by desire and you're ruled by desire? And then what decisions do you make if you feel like you have to rebel against that? Like the Jacqueline thing is of a piece with that entirely. It's how the thing she desires is to be desired, right? Is to be an object of other people's desire.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And so she is potentially sabotaging her friendships, her marriage, core relationships in her life to feel that for a minute.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I thought you were going to say in the history of television. Is that how you feel about the Sam Rockwell scene? I don't know how he feels about it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and piña colada flavored creamers.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It sounded a little like Merritt Weaver to me, but that might be just because I've been watching too much Severance. Mm-hmm. Joanna's voice recognition technology is some of the best. That one I'm not very certain on. And we don't have any closing credits to tell us one way or another.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Not every time. But I think sometimes it is. Seems at least worth considering.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You're missing the like duvet wrapped around you as you, as you sit on the beach.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Two, you know, like, members of the hotel staff. two staff people. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, and here's her little phone call.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm just going to say as a blanket policy, no tsunami videos before bed. Just like blanket. I think that's a great rule. You don't even have to be in Thailand. No tsunami videos before bedtime. A great rule. We've had a lot of pushback on our accent critique of Jason Isaac, specifically. I'm loving it, as you know. And Mike White said that he based the Ratliffs on Bravo's Southern Charm.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And we got a bunch of emails of people sending specifically Tom Ravenel from Southern Charm. Never seen a second of Southern Charm. Me neither. But it is pretty amazing. on the nose, and this guy was a disgraced politician and Charleston playboy, Tom Ravenel.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Right. And that's what Isaac said, too, that there were some vowels that sound British. I will say I still stand by immediately being a bit British last week. But I think either my ear is getting used to it or I'm convinced by all of the millions of emails we got about it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
No, no, no, no. However, it's eight episodes. Right. And we think we're only doing a week. Yeah. So is that last episode. Yeah. After whatever happens.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Rick is ready to run a con before his first caffeinated beverage. What do you think of Rick sniffing a muffin phrasing right before he went over to talk to them? My favorite thing that happens at breakfast actually is Kate is talking to Lori's kind of background. Kate's like, do you think I could do something like this at home?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You don't have a job. What do you have to do?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think so. Wild stuff. Lori's a sniper.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. Time to shred.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think, I mean, I think we've seen similar things on some of like the big prestige antihero shows, but it's never what is delicious about this is he's oversees everything. And there's nothing he can do about it. He's in a different time zone overseas. So it's not like he can go into the office or have like a kooky car chase, the helicopters are coming, like Goodfellas moment, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
He has to like, he's trying to pretend to his family that everything's fine. And if he goes back to handle it, then he has to fess up that it's happening.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That shot him in the shower? Yeah, I was going to say, has anyone ever come back from the upshot of the shower?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That's why Isaac's is like front leaderboard for Emmys for me because it's the difference.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I don't know that I apologize. She acknowledged that there's a different opinion out there, but she did not apologize. I have learned something.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yes, right now, so far.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think between the shout, like... Surveying his domain in episode one and shower shot in episode three, Isaacs has gone really far. Goggins also, like Grifter Goggins showing up here versus... What about Snake Goggins?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Snake release Goggins.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, that Piper always gets her way?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Do you think there's the potential for any kind of, like,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
actual growth from Tim because what he says to Saxon in that moment right is he says we both know how gratifying work is but there's got to be more to life than just success if we leave room for them to develop then we'll have more to offer which is not something Tim Ratliff of episode one would ever have said when they were talking to Pam about like him the father son working together he's like yeah we love working together it's great and so like
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Him saying it can't all be work, knowing that everything's going to fall apart for them back home. That's like a forced spiritual development inside of Tim Ratliff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think I'm so impressed by you. You're going to have a phenomenal career is not. That also means.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Honestly, he's great. Both he and Simnavola, who are both UFO babies, are really, really good.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
He's also partially a Kennedy, so that's something to remember.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I really agree. Can I ask you a question about the naming? Do you think, so Lachlan is such a rare name that I immediately thought of Lachlan Murdoch, right? Saxon is the name of one of Elon Musk's kids. I see.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And I was trying to find a famous Piper. Piper Palin is the best I could do. But I couldn't.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Pam is ready to help him blend that. She was going to make the smoothie. She wasn't just delivering the blender. She's like, what milk do we want? How much of this creatine powder are you going to put in there?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, or do you feel like Chelsea's safe? Or are you going to double fake yourself out and be like, or does that actually mean... I know, is he counting on us thinking that?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Should we be worried about the iPhone rule then?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
According to Rian Johnson, Apple told him that you can't let a bad guy use an iPhone. And that has crept up in shows before. So is he the gunman? Yeah. Does he get his hand on the gun somehow? Does he try to do something desperate?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Or he just can't stand any of them having to face the reality of what has happened here. Dark. Very dark.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
All of us were saying it wrong.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And then Sitala. Sitala. Sitala.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Sitala.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh my God, this was remarkable. And my guy Fabian, who is maybe my new favorite. Actually heartbreaking.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Fabian's very protective of Sitala and like Dufferin. But like the finding out that he has been mispronouncing her name, as I'm sure I am in my own way, but he was just like, I'm sorry, it's what? I know. Painful.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But like Fabian.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I would not be able to weigh in on this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I know my sign and what that means about me. What's your sign?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Couldn't tell you. Okay. I literally have no idea.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, probably. I'll ask Chelsea what she thinks.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
What's a classic Libra according to you?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That's us.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Wow. Yeah. How wonderful for you. How wonderful for you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Good for you, man. I feel like I'm year of the cock on the Chinese menu.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That's Bill.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Jacqueline is pushing Lori.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. And the fact that – Do you think that connection is because in terms of this trust triangle when it gets to, like, what unites us, what divides us? Kate dropping the, like, I voted for Trump bomb is, like – Right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And I can get him for you. Yes. Like I'm doing the flirting for you. I will facilitate this to make you happy. I am in a committed relationship, but it's still my allure that's getting you closer to this guy. Yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Who knew we were going to bring that up on a White Lotus bike ride?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Wow. Would you get a lot of us to tattoo?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Did you know that there's like a huge Russian population in Thailand? Yeah. No? Yeah. No. I'm going to add that to my con list. When they're talking to Valentin, they're like, oh, you came here before the war. And he was like, yeah. But when the Russia-Ukraine war broke out, Russia was persona non grata. Russian citizens could not fly to so many countries. And Thailand was like, come here.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And so it was a massive influx of Russians in Thailand. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, yeah. And schemes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Guy talk.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Here's a follow-up question. This is Rob Mahoney's take on Guy Talk. He thinks he's like a creep. I don't get that vibe off of him, but Rob's on a limb.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Rob has good creep radar? Yeah. Tough one there for Rob. He's got nothing but time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. Creep Radar with Rob Mahoney?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Let's get that going right now. Here we go.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Can I just say it's an incredible time for Creep Radar. Oh, my gosh.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Creep everywhere.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, is this where I get to talk? Go ahead. Okay. Where are you on this? Yeah. Prince Yanni, the best. Legend. Texted me and said she was in on my Saxon is a virgin thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I mean, we don't know. I don't know what her virgin radar is, but she says she introduced me to a term that is gym cell, which I had never heard before.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
An incel who likes to hit the gym.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Shout out to Nora.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Nora should host gym cell corner.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Do you want to say on camera what you texted me about?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Do you think that Saxon is going to use his, like, pec flex trick to seal the deal with Chloe?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Again, I feel like this is a make or break moment for Rick. Like he is locked into this vengeance plan. It seems like he doesn't see a future for himself. He feels like he has no future. But if he can get vengeance.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Chelsea. Chelsea.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's like, can you see what's right in front of you?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Chelsea who's still having dinner with you despite you getting her snake bit.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm sure that that feels really true to him. Sawyer also can't go back to Australia. It's giving Sawyer. It's giving Sawyer. You know what the snake show made me think of? Justified Season 4. I was thinking about that too. Yeah. Goggins with the snakes in Justified Season 4.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Right? He feels like he's stuck in a cage.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And Amrita thinks she can help him. Okay, this is going to be my running bit if I remember to do this next week.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Sometimes I do.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Both of you had them? Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
No, but that's great because I feel like sometimes I just use characters' names and people have no idea what I'm talking about.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, when I podcast with you, you're like, you know, the blonde ladies.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. Well, do you think... If this whole theme of the season is not just drugs, but also like spiritual awakening. Right. Like, who is that available to? Who's going to have the like Nirvana moment here? Or is it available to anyone? Is it available to Rick? Chelsea already seems pretty enlightened to me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I hope so.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, Piper. Piper. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
She only had six months of the tripping plan to figure out— Wait, but this is a big reveal from Piper because she wants to do a program, which is not one— For a year. For a year, which is not— Her family knows nothing about her life. They think she's there for a thesis interview, and she's there.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That's what I— Right now, especially.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The thing about White Lotus is that sometimes people leave White Lotus enlightened. Mm-hmm. And sometimes people leave White Lotus trapped in the same toxic relationship as when they got there. And sometimes they leave dead.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, dude.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And if I ever register that I'm doing it, I put my arms down. Because I know what it gives off. I would also sit in a defensive posture if that were my family.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Probably. I think like a hunch of any kind.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Protecting your belly sort of, you know, sort of like. Right. Yeah. You're vulnerable. You're vulnerable. Places. Your soft bits.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Can we go back to Chloe for a second?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Talking about Tanya?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I thought shocking.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And all they found was part of her leg, which is untrue. Correct. I went back and rewatched. I mean, you rewatched it more recently, but I was like, I feel like we saw her whole body, which we do. We see her whole body.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
First name, last name.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Right. Or what is Belinda? Belinda does not seem convinced by this. No. So.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But his like predatory, like sort of scoping out the restaurant, looking at Saxon to your point. But I think something that's really important about Chloe talking about Tanya and Belinda talking about Tanya and all of this other stuff. is there's this batshit theory floating around with love and respect to everyone who believes in this theory that this was like a prequel. What?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, because they were like, maybe this is before he met Tanya. Maybe this is before Belinda met Tanya. There were a bunch of people who thought this was like a... I think people have been watching too much Severance and or Westworld. They thought it was a prequel season, but it's clearly not. No, it's clearly not.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Let's see. Just me...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Lost. Don't trust him on Lost.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Napoleon Dynamite. Uncle Rico. Good call. Good call.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It was very distressed through this whole sequence. It couldn't have possibly ended well, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm not opposed to like a little corn snake. Like there's some like cute little snakes that exist. But if they've got, if it's like a hooded cobra, if it's got like poisonous fangs or a rattle, it's enough for me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. It's a no for... Oh, so Rick... Snake show?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But also Chelsea nearly dying twice is important. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Unless it's a different kind of snake show, right? Exactly.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Did you hear when the fancies, as Bill is calling them, were checking on Valentin, there was like hardcore moaning on the soundtrack. The musical accompaniment. And same with Chloe and Saxon. Yeah. Like they're putting like pornographic moaning on the soundtrack of this show. Yes, I did notice. Okay, just making sure.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
When you see the snake behind her.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Rick seemed... Not Rick. Rick seemed genuinely upset. We were constantly questioning, like, does Rick actually care about Chelsea at all? Right? And when she's going to the hospital, he seems, like, desperate to follow her.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yep. Uh-huh. She voted for Trump.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
She's like, do you really want to talk about Trump? We're really going to talk about Trump today. Again, this like silent smile thing she does, I think is like killer.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
We're not watching ahead?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
What I think was so smart about what they did is they did a little bait and switch with us. When they put her in Austin, you're like, oh, Austin. Sure. And then she's like. A little blue haven. A little blue bubble in Texas. And then she's like, oh, no.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. And they haven't seen each other in a long time. And their accusation is that she has molded her personality to fit her husband. And also. Which seems true. My, my favorite moment.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Because they think you're undisciplined. I promise you're not watching ahead because you're like, as soon as we're done, I'm going to watch episode four. You're leaving here to go on.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
King of Austin.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
My favorite, my favorite moment.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
My favorite part is when Kate is like, you would know that if you came to visit me. And they're like, can't wait to get down there. I really want to come.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, your kids look great. I get the Christmas card every year or something like that. I thought it was weird that you were all wearing red hats, but whatever. It's fine. Baseball caps instead of Santa hats. Odd choice. Inside the trust triangle, I think what's really interesting inside the patented Jacoby trust triangle is, like, what are the strongest bonds of identity that you can have, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And it's, like, Lori and Kate are moms who have been married and divorced for a long time, and Jacqueline doesn't get that. Right. Jacqueline and Kate have wealth and status. Yeah, have good plastic surgeons. You know what I mean? Right. But then there's this, like, Trump voter thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And the Trump voter thing I thought was really interesting because, first of all, this was made before they knew what the outcome of the election was. So, like, how does this scene play?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But, like— This scene existed. So how is it going to play if there was a different outcome? You know, all of that. And then also, I thought it was interesting to make the Trump part explicit here versus in White Lotus season two when they were talking about voting. They were like, you know, the couple, Theo James and stuff like that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Like, do you even vote was this sort of conversation they were having.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But that's like a more nebulous version of this. Like, wait, you didn't vote for Trump, did you? Right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, and that's why the chameleon is like a habit. Right. This is how you choose to live your life. This is like a belief sort of thing, you know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
All right, cool. I'm bumping churches.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
would have said we're horrified how could you do that as a woman all the things that they say but it felt like the more active judgment was like is this what she believes it's the chameleonic that's certainly what um what laurie and jacqueline were talking about that's what the whispers later yeah she always just does whatever dave does yeah it's a classic julia roberts runaway sounds amazing could dave be showing up to thailand
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think that... It doesn't feel safe to confront Greg Gary at dinner this way. But she doesn't know, but he doesn't know what she doesn't know. If that makes any sense.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Is White Lotus just a show about Greg Gary going around the world killing women? Is that what this show is?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You're saying he gets spooked? He's like, someone else gets spooked, and then he's like, I have to defend you. Is Trigger happy, has something to prove, and you think the inciting incident is a monkey? Or a snake? They're everywhere. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
We've done sex on a yacht on White Lotus before, Portia and Jack last season. So what you're saying is you cannot wait For sex and have sex with Chloe on the yacht. That is your number one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm also excited for this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
What a weird thing to say right in the middle of talking about White Lotus.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I dare you to say that to Chris and Andy's face. Saxon mentions that there's a big full moon holiday. And this is like a thing right next, the island next door to the island they're shooting on. They have like a rave on the beach every single month for the full moon. It's just this huge beach party in Thailand.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Uh-huh.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Read the Bible is like a pretty great Chelsea quote. Incredible stuff. Not wrong. Well, neither is Rick, though. Not all snakes bite, man.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Do you think that Tim was like, that looks pretty nice right about now?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Stop it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
No, that was not a Libra move of you at all.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I can't believe this is a fight you want to pick.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
He doesn't do drugs. Very, very worrying.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Jason Isaacs. Goggins, I think.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's a great Goggins episode. I just want to say that I think it was last week that I was like, if Tim Ratliff gets into the lorazepam, we're going to have a good time. And I feel like we're about to have a good time. But it almost deprived us of Tim. Lorazepam Tim is something that I'm very excited for.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I don't take lorazepam. Yeah, it's a sedative.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, Vicky is happy to say that it's not addictive. It depends on your milligrams is what I would say.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
She doesn't just take them at night though. She like just takes them. What else is in her cocktail?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And now I know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But I like that you turned to me for drug info and horoscope info. And I love this Northern California image.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And also like if you're talking about like body mass, you know, like Tim is much bigger than his wife. So like whatever her dosage is, he's probably going to need more.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I agree. Yeah. I agree because, and I know you, do you want to talk about the interview you had on the pod?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. Well, here's my question about the yacht for you, too.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Is Saxon bringing anyone else? Is a whole family going?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
She said expat, like a bunch of expats. So I think there's just going to be other people.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I bet it's going to be a bunch of LDHs. Losers back home, man.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's going to be fantastic.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
We learned a lot about accents, about horoscopes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Snakes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Would you kill a mouse if it was in your house?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
When they were location scouting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
female cats are less Marky right I think you would love to have a little female cat I think that would be real cats Mark don't they they can don't you want the big cats to respect you what you don't just be like neurotic all you're like die a fucking virgin fucking cat virgin do you we are back next week on the prestige TV pod but Joe's gonna be on with Rob Mahoney
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
A couple weeks.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I don't want it to be over. I know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
A plus, I think. A plus. Really good.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yes. Absolutely.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Everyone I know is watching except for you. You're the only person on the planet that I know who's not watching.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Three mentions this episode. Deal. I told you I'll watch The Sopranos as soon as you let me do a show about it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Good to see you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So this is incredible.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The rat lifts... I'm susceptible to germs. Two out of five of the rat lifts are on lorazepam right now. Yeah. Right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Rick claims that his drugs were laced. The weed that he got from, like, Weedland or whatever. It's Cannabisland.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Whatever it's called. I don't believe that. Do you think... The blondes, the ladies, are they going to have a drug experience? I sure hope so.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Still cranking it out. I have heard that that's still on the show. Still cranking it out.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. I love fancies. I sure hope so. They're drinking a lot. They're drinking a lot. Are they going to have a drug experience?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I don't know. Laced or otherwise are chosen.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm thrilled.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Saxon's going to be there.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Chelsea's going to be there. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Rob and I got an email. Someone was pointing out to us that the poisonous tree that's in their villa, the pong pong tree, is known as the suicide tree.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I did not think so. She said very, very poisonous. You could die. But she didn't say you will die.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The hospital is only 15 minutes away. We know this thanks to Chelsea. Hero that she is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Chug it down, Lockie. Don't you want to be one of the big dogs? That sounds like it could happen.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Hearing you say that, that feels, something with Lachlan in the smoothie seems like he feels being forced on him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, that's another one that people have been pointing out. You know, like in the opening credits, there are all these like postures with the various animals. My favorite one is Parker Posey's where it's just like two monkeys getting high. But Lockie's is Sam Nivola's is just like a guy floating in the water. Now, that could be Lockie in the deprivation tank.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The mushroom zombies.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Or his chill water hammock where he asked his sister who she had talked to recently.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I feel like it's, well, I don't know. White Lotus is not operating on normal moral behaviors, but it feels like the kind of story where Rick has a choice to make. give up vengeance, embrace Chelsea's affection, choose a path of, like, life, or choose vengeance, and that will lead in death and destruction. That's a usual setup, but White Lotus tends to zig and zag.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Absolutely not. No, because Robert Pattinson Batman was never as charming as Rick is when he sits down. Who is he actually doing? He's Sawyer.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm thrilled. It was great.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Grifter Goggins was wonderful.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, it's a crowded field. Everyone is amazing. I don't know. Jason Isaacs. He's been really good. He's been really good. He's been really good. Really, really good. They're all great. Tim is the one who's like the most like being squeezed going through it. You know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I can't wait to talk about this Belinda episode. About Greg Gary or Pornchai.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Your guy Pornchai. I can't wait. He's going to have good dreams of her. Is that a Thai saying? Fantastic.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Pornchai mumbling to himself tipsy tipsy as he walks away. Relatable content.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I don't want hover hands. Hover hands is not for me. Energy moving is not for me. One of the many things that you and Kate have in common? Yeah. You don't believe in energy healing? Well, one of the many things. One of the many things that you and Kate have in common? Let's back off putting me in the same bucket as Kate.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Close your eyes. You can't even open your eyes. Yeah, close your eyes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Like, it's an emperor's clothes situation where you're just sort of like.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Forget Kate. People pleaser? Lockie's, like, hunched position is, like.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Very identifiable.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Chloe and Saxon it's on that was another big takeaway okay we're on with some they're having there's some eye fucking going on he's definitely banging her or is he or is she gonna like fleece him for some money so she eyeing him as a mark or as someone to have sex with or both I had that thought and that's my question too but I do wonder if that's too similar to the Lucia Albie I think it's my last year with Greg Gary has sucked
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
A new meal ticket?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, it would be a little... We'll get into that and then we'll get into... Wait, are you hoping for then, like, is it boat sex?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think Jacqueline Lemon's going to be fine. Yeah. I think Lori's going to be fine. Oh, Lori. I love her. I think Kate is going to be fine. Kate.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Did you guys talk about this on the pod, that there's, like, an actor that hasn't been announced yet?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, I don't know. Disaster? Chaos. Who are you more worried for? Chelsea, who's already been to the hospital, or our guy Tim Ratliff, who's hitting the lorazepam hard?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That's just down the water. There's an actor that hasn't been announced on White Lotus, and we know that Rick called his friends. Right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I don't remember them doing it. He calls his friend Frank. Yeah, he calls his friend Frank. Yeah. Frank. Frank. Or any of the number of people that Tim Ratliff has talked to on the phone. Chuck. Chuck. Terry, the woman on the phone with him, I'm unwilling to identify this with any certainty.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and piña colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And knowing that you can do the most horrendous extreme things to them and they will not remember it at all.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Tough. That's an understatement. Grim. Quite grim, Jo. Grim. And I think, you know, we've seen it a couple times like when Mark in season one gets an explanation for why he has like a bump in his head when he's an outie or whatever. most recently after the Orpo has an explanation for why he was all wet, you know, sort of explained to him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But if the severance practice is sort of, if the walls are holding even firmer or even higher, sort of what more could they do? Yeah. that an Audi wouldn't even know that they did.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Persona.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Exactly. Like, there are so many... We find out in one of her intake sessions with Dr. Mao, who we'll talk about in a second, but, like, that she did six rooms in one day. Yes. But there are so many rooms down there. Um, you know... Place names that we've never seen on an MDR monitor on these doors and stuff like that. Cold Harbor, though, still remains a secret, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
We're going to do our best. You might note that the runtime is longer than usual on this episode. That's because we've got an interview with Damon Lindelof, who came into the studio this week to talk about his severance thoughts and theories and all the rest. This is an edited version of a longer conversation, which is up on YouTube.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
She has not been in the Cold Harbor room. This is like a new room for her. And she saw the label on it, but she has not been inside it, right? That she knows of.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Oh, for sure. Yeah. Rainbows, sunshine, lollipops, something like that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
How optimistic for you?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Well, we'll always have it tattooed on Drummond's hands if we need it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Okay, so we mentioned that Gemma has a number of not only personas, but also she has wigs and costume changes and something that you texted to me, Rob. Rob is very assiduous about not talking about the episode. He does not burn pod. We don't pre-chat about the episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But what you did text me is you said, we're going to need to talk about Dollhouse.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And also our listener, Mike, coincidentally wrote in to us about Dollhouse just last week. So shout out, Mike. Deetchan Lockman, who plays Gemma, a.k.a. Miss Casey, you and I both, I think, were introduced to her on the TV show Dollhouse, which ran from 2009 to 2010 for two seasons. Do you want to tell the people at home who maybe did not catch this quickly canceled gem what Dollhouse is about?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
So if you go to the Ringer TV YouTube channel, you can watch an hour of Damon Lindelof talking about And if you listen to this podcast, you get about half of that. You get like severed, essentially. So, you know, that is what is going on on this podcast.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
The main doll on that show is Eliza Dushku of Buffy Vampire Slayer fame. And, like, you and I both agree that she's not the greatest part of that show. But Deason Lockman and Enver Joke, who play two of the other dolls, are, like, phenomenal. Uncanny.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
At exactly this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Different accents, different whatever it is. And so that was, like, a pure pleasure watching Dollhouse. I have been waiting for... For Deidre Lockman to have like another opportunity to really show what she can do. And she's popped up here and there. But I don't think she's been and even in season one of Severance was not, you know, she's great, but not given a lot to work with.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And then this is just a Deidre Lockman showcase this episode and she's phenomenal in it. And one other thing I want to say about Dollhouse is that ostensibly in that show, everyone who is a doll has volunteered, has signed up for five years of this in exchange for a good deal of money or to make something bad in their life go away or whatever it is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Except for our main character, who there are questions about whether she's there consensually. And I would say a similar case for Gemma here, where my interpretation of what we see in this episode is that Lumen has been lurking in Gemma and Mark's life since they're very meet-cute. They're at a blood drive run by Lumen. Yep.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
When they're having fertility issues, they go to a fertility clinic run by Lumen where Dr. Maurer, who we spend a good deal of time with in this episode, is at that clinic. We see her have a miscarriage. We see that take a toll on their relationship. And it feels to me, by the way, the nature of her goodbye to him that night, that she has voluntarily signed herself up for this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But that she is being kept now. Like, it feels like to me that Dr. Maurer is unlikely to let her go. He's lying to her about what's happening on the inside. Outside, she is asked to leave. She's being told she can't leave. So, however...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
However she was directed into this path, there are some theories already out there that Lumen might have caused her miscarriages in order to push her in this direction. It's certainly within the wheelhouse of the nefarious shit that they do. But whatever pushed her in here, there was a choice that was seemingly hers.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But now she's trapped in a scenario that she doesn't have the ability to say, I would like to stop now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I think it's the latter mostly because, again, of that rewatching that scene where she says goodbye to Mark.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And she's like, I could stay. And he's like, no, go. You know, it just seems very much like she knows she's leaving for something. Though I don't believe this episode gives no indication that she thought it meant forever or even for years, you know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
With a script written for me by one Mr. Rob Mahoney.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
You know, we've cited Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind several times, but I was so reminded of it in... this flashback sequence, watching them go from like the giddiness of, you know, the meet cute and first love and the idyllic early days of their relationship and their marriage into, you know, it's, With the added harrowing infertility story that is part of their story.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But, you know, you think about... You think about them getting to the point in the relationship where they're, like, at a Chinese restaurant and they can't even talk. You know, we are the dining dead. Like, they can't even talk to each other. Yes. You know? And so... Yeah. There are ways in which Gemma is...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Again, infertility is a very touchy subject, so I don't want to make presumptions for anyone. But inside of this character, inside of this episode, I would say there's certainly something going on there. Our listener Haley wrote in for Tolstoy Corner. Um, and she said, she sort of summed it up this way.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
She said, Tolstoy decided that death, if you lived a true, authentic life, isn't something to be feared. But if you do fear it, it's because you lived artificially or focused on the wrong things. And that can lead us to try to hide from ourselves and death and shut down.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And Ivan at the end of the story quote dies, but because he learned that death isn't something to be feared, he doesn't die at all. Lots of the fear of death and hiding from it can be traced into Mark and lots of the artificial authentic stuff. can be traced into Helly and Helena.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But what I thought was interesting was the idea that death, the ending of oneself, only happens when authenticity is lost completely. So, like, when we think about Gemma, is Gemma alive? She's alive is, like, the big line at the end of season one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It's true. It's true. Okay, so listen. Elsewhere on the Prestige Feed... You and I are covering White Lotus midweek. Bill and Mallory and I are covering White Lotus immediately after the episode drops on Sunday. So you can watch all of that on the Ringer TV YouTube channel as well. We are keeping our eyes on the pit.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And, like, certainly in the spirit of her breaking fingers and trying to escape and saying Mark's name. Yeah. a few times, there are ways in which Gemma is still alive. But there are also indications that, like, when she's getting her sort of vitals read by this nurse played by the great Sandra Bernhardt, great casting. And we'll talk about Robbie Benson as Dr. Bauer in a second. But, like...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
When she's getting her vitals read, one of the questions she asks is like, did you do your reading today? And she's like, yeah, 50 pages. But I was just like, 50 pages isn't nothing. But for an academic, I think of all the like, in terms of showing us their life in the span of just a few minutes of an episode of television.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
the really clever effect of the stacking up the books and the papers and stacking down, which is a huge part of that montage. These are two academics who like fall in love talking about their respective fields. And you really get the sense of what is lost. with these brains when they're neutered and severed into docile complicity.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And so like the, um, the compliance is what I meant, not complicity. So like, so Gemma saying, yeah, I read 50 pages. Like, yes. But like, is she, is she, how much is she still Gemma at this point?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
One of our listeners, Todd, pointed out, and I missed this, that Gemma's a lefty and that Todd was like, there's a particular form of torture of making a lefty write with a fountain pen. It's very true. Because the smear factor is just off the charts. And so she's writing and he's like, the nib is all like upside down and backwards.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And yeah, the writing looks nearly gibberish, which you're right, might be a reflection of...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
declining mind or it might be a reflection of making her write as many uh thank you letters as she wrote i thought that was like sort of a it's always fucking christmas but i thought it was like a really diabolical uh alongside the dentistry uh writing endless thank you notes sounds like absolute torture to me but but overall i think as far as the how alive is jemma question yeah
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It's a tough hang sometimes, but we are watching it, and we'll be checking back in with that. And then also, we get this question all the time, just to reiterate, Mallory and I are covering Yellow Jackets over on House of R. So if you're looking for Yellow Jackets episodes of Prestige, they don't exist this year, they're over on House of R, because we have a lot going on in this feed right now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And I think what's interesting to me is I agree with all of that. I think all of that is true. And yet she is more alive than we've seen her so far.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
We believe this is actually physically Gemma. I am sort of out on Miss Casey as a clone theory, like this is physically her body.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I agree. Though I really did like Damon's clone theory. If you want to hear it, I cut it out of the episode just because of that. But you can see it on the YouTube interview. It's pretty solid, except maybe not actually true. But anyway, she's more alive than we've seen her thus far. And so, you know, and this is something I had talked to Damon on the full interview that you can watch, like,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Previous to watching this episode, so mere days ago, I was like, I think it matters that Miss Casey, that Gemma's dead and she should stay dead and et cetera, et cetera. And now I'm in conflict. And now our love quadrangle polygon has gotten so complicated because at the end of this episode, you're like... Mark and Gemma have to be united.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Like, he wakes up with tears in his eyes thinking about her. She's, like, feebly saying his name, you know, in tears on her way back down to the testing floor. Like, of course they have to be put back together. Yeah. Except we still care so much about Helly. Like, you know, it's this is exactly where they want us, which is deeply conflicted about what the outcome we're most rooting for is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I really agree.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It's definitely top five. I'm not sure I'm willing to, like, unsee Crimson Sky yet, but, like, because we did cover Shogun together, but, like, it is definitely top five episode television we've ever covered. And, you know... Probably top three, at least.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And one last thing I want to say about the Damon interview, and I'll say it again later. Rob and I might reference it a little bit as we're talking about it, but it was recorded before either of us had seen
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But there's a part of her inside... This is why I'm like, I can't fully ascribe to your Gemma is dead theory because... There is a part of her that is alive even inside of Miss Casey that's like, but I... And especially when we flashed to the season one scene where she had been monitoring the MDR team and she was like, I really liked being here today.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Deetian Lockman on the official podcast that dropped this morning was talking about how when we see Miss Casey or when we see Gemma in all of these rooms, it's just her and fucking Dr. Maurer and... Nurse Cecily. And that's all of her interactions. So there's something inside of Miss Casey, even though she doesn't actually know it, that is so happy to be around other people.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
So for the love of coffee, go try them now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
There's just something inside of her that is still alive and kicking and is Gemma. despite all of the tinkering that they're doing with her brain.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And I told you I was daunted to do this podcast episode with you because I was like, it's too big. Like, how do we talk about everything? There's so much. Let's talk about this. You mentioned that this is, like, this is one of the best episodes of television we've ever covered, if not the best. Part of that is sort of, like, just filmmaking technique.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
So let's talk about what Jessica Lee Gagné does here.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Yes. One thing that they mentioned on the official pod, basically she at a certain point conscripted Ben Stiller to be like her second unit DP. And she gave him a Bolex camera with which if people don't know what a Bolex camera is, it's 16 millimeter. Like one of those things you have to like crank sort of handheld camera.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It's been used recently in films like Sean Baker's The Florida Project, Ann Biller's The Love Witch, a gorgeous film, Paul Schrader's First Reform, David Lowery's A Ghost Story. So basically like directors who really just want to like flex and show you something cool and weird, they'll go for the Bolex camera.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
So that's something that she decided to use for these, to give us these sort of like warm, golden flashbacks. From a production design standpoint, I think the warmth...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And this sort of like lively clutter of Gemma and Mark's house, not to mention their offices, piled with books and books and books and plans and plans and plans compared to the soulless corporate housing that we have watched Mark exist in for the last season and a half. Is devastating. Like, it's a brilliant point of contrast, you know?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Oh, no.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
You're a blue Valentine kind of guy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I didn't, it wasn't until the episode that it was over that I was like, wait, that was a, oh, that was a, I usually, as soon as the dead dog wife montage starts, I'm like, oh, here we go. But there was just something like so special about the meet cute, the like the interaction in the office, the ant farm. Do you think the ant farm was a West Wing reference? Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Do you remember that in West Wing?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Absolutely. Before we get to that, can we do like a quick zoom through some emails we got? Where can folks find us, Rob?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
There is no ant farm. And in West Wing, Timothy Busfield's character brings Allison Janity. Yeah, goldfish.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
He brings her a goldfish in a bowl and she's like, I like goldfish crackers. Just a classic misunderstanding. A great moment in TV dating.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Great question. I want to zero in on the plant imagery. Please. We've noted that it is like the land of always winter in and around Kier from what we've watched for a season and a half of this show. Watching, and we've got a Persephone name drop earlier in the season between Devin and Mark, and we talked about that at the time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But watching Gemma, like poison ivy plant goddess, you know, surrounded by her house plants or out in the garden with the various flowers that are blooming, like it is springtime.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
So the myth of Persephone is Persephone was stolen away by Hades, dragged down into the underworld, and her mom, Demeter, goddess of the harvest, had to negotiate, basically, shared custody with this asshole who stole her daughter. And when Persephone is above ground, it is summer and springtime. And when she is below ground, it is winter and fall.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
So the fact that it has been land of always winter... Because Gemma slash Miss Casey is below ground, but in our hazy flashbacks, it was springtime. There were plants everywhere. Everything was in bloom when she was around.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
On that note, We did get a note from a listener, Mikhail, mentioning that. So Dr. Maurer, again, I do promise we'll talk about Robbie Benson, the great Robbie Benson, who I was just like thrilled to see and I think is phenomenal in this episode. Maurer means wall in German, is what she pointed out.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And in the musical Hadestown, which is the story of Orpheus and Eurydice and Persephone and Hades all intermingled together. Hades has this, Hades is depicted as this like evil lord of industry. The underworld is this sort of like smokestack filled, gears turning, hellscape of constant working. And he has this whole song about why we build the wall. And basically he is like,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
We got, dare I say, more emails than ever this week. They just keep coming. And you guys were really quick on the emails this week. So we got a lot of post-Episode 7 emails. We record this the morning after the episode drops. And you guys were burning the midnight oil watching the episode and emailing us thoughts about Russian leadership. literature, all kinds of stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
duped all of the residents of the underworld into believing that they have to build this wall to keep people out and build the wall because work is what gives us meaning and if that isn't lumen i don't i don't know what is you know um wait are you are you telling me capitalism is like a hellscape or a prison bad question mark i don't know joe that seems far-fetched
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
On the be cute front, what do you make... Our listener Molly wrote in saying that she thought it was really... I mean, I loved the way it was done.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But the fact that when Mark meets... Gemma at the blood drive. He says, who are you? And he says it in this like really sweet sort of like incredulity of like, you are so hot and so smart. Where did you come from? Who are you? Right. So that's all in there. But she was, she made this really interesting connection between that be cute and Mark S meeting Heli are on the table and,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And how that intake is very much like, who are you? Right? Who are you is like an odd way. It's not like, what's your name? Nice to meet you. I'm Mark. Anything like that. Who are you is not usually how one interacts. But I like that idea is like a connection between the two. If you want to call the Heli sprawled on a table, losing her mind to meet cute. In its way. Yeah, in a way.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I didn't even consider that. My mind went immediately to Vesper Lind in a Bond movie.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Question mark. But wow. Upsetting. Thank you for raising that. I'm sorry. That's okay. But on that front, like talking about Ellie, something that like actually a couple of our listeners pointed out that I thought was interesting was this idea that, you know, if sort of building on something that Damon was talking about in our conversation about this idea of like,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
If you're attracted as innies, you're going to be attracted as outies. We get this with like our guys, Bervang. We get this with Helena and Mark and Helly and Mark, you know, that there are sparks of flying no matter what the combination is, because there is something in you that is attracted to something in them. Does it mean anything? And again, we got a couple emails about this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
So we will be getting to that. But in terms of stuff that applies to last week, I hear all of you. You don't want me washing my chicken. I will continue to wash my chicken. Don't worry about it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Does it mean anything that Mark had no real spark with Miss Casey?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And something we should say is there was a line or a line or two about this in season one. I think when he was dating that other woman and like often drunk.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Okay, great point. Oh, creepy. Gotcha. Okay, I know what you're going for. Anyway, I believe there were lines in season one both about having trouble conceiving.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And Mark saying, implying that he was not always the best husband to Gemma. That was all seeded in season one. Can we talk about Robbie Benson?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Robbie Benson is best known to me as the voice of the Beast from Beauty and the Beast. Yeah. But I remember when he was sort of announced or when they, you know, I don't know, I was watching like the Wonderful World of Disney or something as a kid. And it's like Robbie Benson's Voice of the Beast. I remember my mom being like, oh my God, it's Robbie Benson.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Because he was like a heartthrob in the 70s. So 70s heartthrob, Voice of the Beast from Beauty and the Beast to, you know, creep dentist doctor with a wig fetish. Is he a dentist? Creep doctor with a dentist side habit.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
He's not a dentist.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
He is using dental tools as a torture device. And what did I say when we talked about it the first time? I mentioned marathon man and dentists as torturers.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It was right there the whole time. There's a torture dentist, an alias. This is a well-worn trope. A friend of mine was texting me very excitedly last night while I was trying to put together notes for a fight of her podcast, so I do apologize to him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I keep a really clean kitchen. Speaking of kitchens... A lot of people seem to think that third oven in Field's kitchen is a microwave drawer. We had a listener, Shane, who is a commercial interior designer, sent us some photographic evidence that that is probably what that is. So does that make you more or less excited about the... The three-door situation in the Fields Kitchen.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But he was really delighted by the metacasting of the voice of the beast playing this guy who's keeping this woman, a bookish woman, captured in his lair and who sort of believes that they have... A romantic connection beyond his purview as her doctor.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Was their house bugged then? Surely yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
You were like, break his fingers again, Gemma. Legit. Straight up. On the, like, it was their house bugged front. The I love you, I love you too stolen from their last goodbye in that Nightmare Christmas room scenario is one thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Great shout. Here's the other question on the bugging front. This is where we're going to do music corner. We've got three entries to music corner this week.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Alexa... wrote in to say, I've noticed that we've heard the song I'll Be Seeing You by Billie Holiday three times now throughout the series. The first is when Mark is on the date with a doula. Yep. Second is when Mark reassembles the pieces of the torn picture of Gemma.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Now we hear it again in a much more prominent way in episode seven, playing in both the flashback scenes of Mark and Gemma being cute and in love and to their current horrific state
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
being trapped in lumen where the doctor abruptly cuts off the stereo um what do you want to say about that you you mentioned that you wanted to talk about the the doula date like art do you feel like she's a lumen plant like what do you what do you think i think the breadcrumbs are there in a different way than i noticed before at the time that character is presented so empathetically and is one of the few people who seems like an actual human living in cure you're
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Thank you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Huge problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Such a sharp observation.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
subconsciously in his head whether he wants to move on or not well and how much is that how much of that is lumen at large and how much of that could be harmony herself because harmony sort of off off assignment right was pushing this uh with mark like stealing that scented candle and putting it in the in the room with miss casey you know a girl can't have a hobby so
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I mean, you would think that baking disgusting chamomile cookies would be enough to occupy you, but there you go.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Okay. The third and final music. Okay, so a peek behind the curtain. These episodes drop on Thursday nights. We do have screeners. We can watch them in advance, but we like to record Friday mornings so that we can get emails from you guys and read the Reddit theories and all that sort of stuff like that. Listen to the official podcast.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But it's like kind of a tight turnaround in terms of like early morning Friday prep. So I was up quite early this morning reading emails. And so it was just not the time of day for my experience that I had with this one email we got. But it's not our emailers fault. So Yael wrote in about the music that's playing during the sort of idyllic flashback montage.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It's a French song. And he says it's a Jacques Brel song and it is used in this musical. There's a movie musical and a stage musical called Jacques Brel is Alive and Well and Living in Paris. So in the 1975 film adaptation of it, the song Carousel in Severance, it's in French. In the film, it's in English. And a woman is singing it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Okay. Speaking of the decor in the Fields Kitchen, we got several people writing in about the salt and pepper grinders to let us know that, in fact, that collection is quite costly. Yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And Yael wrote, it honestly kind of gives me strong Waffle Party vibes. It's dark. It's surreal. The characters discover that they are really terrifying marionette versions of themselves. There's a dead puppet master here and so much more. So I watched this video early this morning and it gave me like full body tremors. It is so upsetting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And I think it's so interesting to, you know, both inside the context of this episode and in that video that I watched. It's on YouTube. You can watch it. Carousel, Ellie Stone, Jacques Brel is alive and well in Paris. The song just gets faster and faster. And so, you know, Yael was pointing out like part of it is like the in and out of the various rooms that Gemma is doing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Part of it is sort of like this, this worldly exhilaration of, you know, early romance and, between a couple. But there is a deeply sinister quality to this song, which makes it a really interesting choice.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Somehow the creepiest part of Dr. Maurer's whole thing Actually, I don't know. I'm not sure I'm ready to call it. It's a long list. It's the wigs and the costumes. It's so gross. The plane crash one was actually kind of the weirdest one for me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Even though the Christmas one and the dentist one are also very sinister, it was the way he was having so much fun with this plane crash scenario that just... Really fucking creepy, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Famed salt and pepper grinders for Dansk. And I should say, I actually own something by Dansk. Do you know what a butter warmer is?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I listened to Dan ask, do you think there's a reason why we cut away before we see Gemma's last name?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But, yeah, they're at the clinic, so she would probably be Scout at that point. But we don't know what her last name was before they got married.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
He sure does know Helena Egan. What did you think of the sequence we got with Devin and Rickon and the foursome of them together?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Like, the genial nature of Mark saying, yeah, Rickon, what's wrong with you? Like, it's just like, the bitterness isn't there. That impatience isn't there. And this, you know, I had mentioned that I had listened to the official podcast, and the actor who played Rickon was on, and he was like, we don't know what Devin and Rickon's relationship was like before...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Basically, he said that knowing that this scene was coming where we would see what the foursome were like together. We have heard Devin say, we were all very close together, that this is grief for her too. The near silent communication of the news that Gemma is pregnant. So that connection between Devin and Gemma, it was just really...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Do you have time in your life and space in your heart for a little bit more mythology?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
OK, so neither did I until I bought this. Basically, I had a I lived in a place that did not have a microwave in an island or otherwise. OK. And I had like a bone broth habit and I wanted like a cup of hot bone broth in the morning. And I didn't it felt silly to use an entire pot. So I was looking for like a wee pot to put on the stove to warm up some bone broth.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
What are we doing here if not that? Always? Okay. Um... Damon mentioned this concept. It's also a Greek concept. The River of Lethe being this river of forgetting in the underworld. I didn't know this. So fun to learn. I knew about the River Styx. I kind of knew about the River Acheron. I knew about the River Lethe. There's like five infernal rivers.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And I just want to say that the phrase infernal river is the life. But the river of forgetting... In Plato's Republic, it's like the souls of the departed were made to drink the leith before their reincarnation, that they are meant to forget their previous life before they move on to this other life. So is Cold Harbor, is the final step like a full wipe of who Gemma ever was?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
we know the Clean Slate Protocol exists inside of Lumen's network. To go back to that Eurydice play that I was encouraged to read by our listeners, that has a whole plot about drinking from the river of forgetting and what it means to die and forget or die and be forgotten and all of that sort of stuff. So this idea of Gemma...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
To go back to this idea of them like slowly somewhat scrambling her brain is part of this sort of like river of forgetting underworlds. You know, losing touch of who she actually is or ever was just devastating.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But I do love... And Mauer's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Rob, that's so good. I love it. On the one hand, I love every single syllable you just uttered. On the other hand, I really loved that it was like Gemma nearly saving herself.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
There's so many people who like ended this episode. We got emails or on the internet who were like, oh my God, Mark has to save her. And it's like, yeah, I mean, obviously. It's got to help. She has to be saved. But I was like, but I like it even better if she can save herself. I think that is... Even cooler.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And a butter warmer is essentially like a small enamel pot with like a little wooden handle. Mine is like a red enamel with a little wooden handle. And it is the cutest fucking thing in the whole world. And even though I have a microwave now, I, like, refuse to part. I mean, I presume you warm butter to pour on popcorn. I don't know what you would do with a butter warmer otherwise.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I think that, and also, I mean, we should say the construction of the testing floor, which on the official podcast they talked about at length, that they wanted it to be of a piece with lumen, so it's still, like, all white and bright, but, like, very distinct in terms of, like, we're not doing straight hallways. We've got these weird triangular jutting shapes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And then the lighting, and this was, you know, this was the directors of this episode's idea, um... to do the floor lighting. She was like, the first thing I envisioned in this floor, knowing that Jemma was going to have to do this run through it, was lighting up the floor from underneath so that as she goes, she's lighting up.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
We've seen the overhead lighting, but this is like underneath lighting. And it was visually quite stunning. And here's a quote from the inside the episode that airs after the episode that, That I think is important. This comes from Dan Erickson. He says, what's going on on the severed floor somehow contributes to what's going on down below, but we still don't know why.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
So I know that the Redditors are going to be pouring over every single freeze frame, but we should point out that we've got the four people... who aren't quite the doppelgangers, but still doubles of our MDR team. They're credited, they're billed in the credits as Mark Watcher, Irving Watcher. So their job is to watch our team as our team refines something.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
They're paying attention to things on a granular level, and we love that for them.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Beautifully put. I believe them that there aren't video cameras on the floor anymore.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Because they thought they had a spy, but... That's all gone to shit. Back to book corner, back to academic corner. We actually had a couple emails from listeners about the literary works of George Saunders. Now, I know that you don't like a piece of fiction.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Well, on that note, so George Saunders wrote a book called Lincoln and the Bardo, which is about Lincoln mourning at his son's crypts and Lincoln sort of slipping into a Bardo space. So that's something that was on their mind. And Ben Stiller owns the rights to one of George Saunders' earlier stories, Civil War Land and Bad Decline.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Just, like, if you want some melted butter and you don't want to put it in the microwave. And it's got a little, like, spout on it. So it's, like, a perfect little, like, you could heat it up and then, like, it looks nice. You could pour it. Anyway, that's my butter warmer side chat. Brought to you by Dansk. You can find it on the Food52 website. That was not a free ad. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
which is about a fucked up workplace, even more fodder for the Civil War theories, Becky writes. But the one that a lot of people have been writing in about is this story called Escape from Spiderhead, which was turned into a really bad Chris Hemsworth film, Spiderhead.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But this is Becky's description of Spiderhead, quote, shadowy pharma corp with, quote, employees test subjects inside who did not really have the full knowledge, knowing consent of what they were signing up for, So, yeah. What Becky wrote is, I like to think of Severance as what we might have gotten if George Saunders had been asked to write a TV show.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And the one thing I will add to that, I think George Saunders is a great, if you're like, hey, I want to read more stuff that's like, reminds me of Severance. I think George Saunders is a great pick.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And a book that I read that actually I read because Damon Lindelof recommended reading it like several years ago is a book called A Swim in a Pond in the Rain, in which four Russians give masterclass on writing, reading, and life. And this is based on George Saunders, a class he teaches at Syracuse University about Tolstoy, Chekhov, Gogol, and Turgenev. So it's about...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
analyzing their work and how it gets to the root of how we tell stories is a really, really good book. But basically everything I know about Tolstoy, I learned from that book. So I just think it's really funny that Saunders came back around this week in a couple different ways. And all of that is, I just am really grateful for our emails from our listeners.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It's just really great stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
The book about the Russian masters was really fucking incredible. I read it with a like, I have notes in the margin, which I haven't done since like college. Okay. Last but not least is a theory.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And I would love your thoughts on it. Danielle writes, what do you think of the possibility of Irving being a prior test subject like Gemma currently is and somehow it involved Bert? Severance has been around for 12 years at least, and Gemma has only been there for two years. Thoughts?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
If we get to experience a montage of John Turturro in several different wigs and several different accents and several different costumes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Oh, yeah. I mean. All right. We loved this episode. Anything else you want to say about it before we go to the Damon conversation?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And then on a much more, sort of, Dare I say serious, more serious than a butter warmer level. We got this great email from Zachariah about Mr. Milchick, which I think is really interesting to talk about in the context of this episode when we see him sort of barring the way for Gemma when she is on the verge of escaping the testing floor. Yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
This is what I've got. All right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I love that. Thank you so much for doing that work. That is, yeah, it's very, it's very like, Crash, not the terrible best picture winner, but, you know, let's invoke what happened here without showing you specifically like this is how Lumen planted a body or anything like that. You know, what's your big picture?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It doesn't personally bother me when Chris and Andy don't like a show that I like. Like, I think that's fine. We're all, like, allowed to like different things. I don't need them to like Severance in order for me to like Severance, but I am curious. If this episode moves the needle for them in any direction in terms of how they've been receiving this season.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Because I think that has been part of their critique is like, this feels like clever without being emotional in the way that they might want it to be. And I feel like I've felt, you know, like... the Irving stuff in episode four. Like, I feel like I've had emotional moments. This is a leveling up for sure. I completely agree.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Well, let's go now to our conversation with The Leftovers co-creator, Lost co-creator, Washington co-creator, Damon Lindelof.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And what I wrote in my notes when I saw that, I wrote, after watching Ms. Milchik go through the performance review and the self-flagellation that was the paperclip exercise and the sort of self-beratement in the mirror, all that sort of stuff, I wrote down oppressed oppressor.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I'm so grateful to you for raising my favorite Harrison Ford film. Thank you so much.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It seems like sparks are flying at the Chinese restaurant.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
At ZooFu.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Yeah. Okay. So we should clarify that you have not seen episode seven as we're recording this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
You've seen episode six as of I. That's the last one that has dropped at the time of the conversation. At the time we're having this conversation. So you have not, I have not watched episode seven. You have not watched episode seven. We're recording this clean. Chakai Bardo is what that episode seven is called.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Do you want to explain to people who don't know what a bardo is? Because I learned it from you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I learned it from watching you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Like what happens when instead of banding together against the person that is oppressing you, you sort of grab onto whatever little shreds of power you do have inside of the system.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I think it's the fourth bardo is the Chakaya bardo.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Like in the Robert Downey Jr. film, Chances Are.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Right, exactly.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Different.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Is it as good as Chances Are with Robert Downey Jr.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Less age-appropriate. Even less age-appropriate.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But something that Zachariah wrote in sort of specifically about the language component of Mr. Milchick's review is he wrote, my read, someone like Mr. Milchick would have internalized the feeling that he would need to be better, twice as better, three times as better as the queer white children to ever bask in his virtuous light.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
They never move on to the next stage.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
If people haven't seen Lost, and I hear from people all the time that they're just starting Lost the first time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I hear it like daily and it's amazing and it makes me really happy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
If people have not watched Lost, the film Jacob's Ladder is another sort of good example of that. That's like Incident at Owl's Creek.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was all a dream. It was all happening while the person was dying sort of idea in that short story.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Correct. Do you want to talk about Bert?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Or are we just... Are we just looking into Christopher Walken always play someone kind of twisty? I mean, he's definitely a bad guy, right? Our guy Bert?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
He honed his vocabulary to showcase his nimble wit and won't ever be put in a position where he's not polished enough, which is why he was knocked down a peg. This is the exact dynamic, I think, that informs this character. And I think the show is actually deeply about race and caste without hardly ever being explicit about it. This also applies to Dylan Gee and Natalie at various times.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
You become the Dylan that your wife met at the beginning of your relationship.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Give me some of that Dylan.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Piping hot.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
If you know your grapes, if you know your varietals.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
If you have a cellar.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Well, here's the thoughts. It's like, I love everything you said about the you you are. Your any is your purest self, not sort of beaten down by life or corrupted by things. that have happened. I like this idea that if you're in love with or attracted to someone in one state, you will be in another state.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And I love this idea that, and this is something that one of our listeners posited with last week's episode, this idea that Mark S, as we see him experience more in his life, The loss of Irving, the betrayal of Helena, stuff like that, is getting closer to— He's, like, getting traumatized now. He's getting closer to Mark, like, the sardonic version of Mark that we know on the outside.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Adam Scott is so good at playing both of those things, and he's moving one character closer to the other as we're doing active reintegration at the same time. Right. Which I think is really interesting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
What's your big codified theory of severance that you want to lay on me?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And then he goes on to talk about the term uppity, which is like a racially specific term used to sort of put people in their place. But it is a term we heard earlier this season. Drummond use it repeatedly. Drummond used it in reference to Devin. He was like, his sister is much more uppity than he is, talking about Mark.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It doesn't work out.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But it is, it's in the water in terms of what's going on with Milchick and Lumen at this time. And in this larger conversation we've been having about like, The severed as people who are considered not human. Right. And all of that. So I really enjoyed that email from Zachariah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And you can just revolve. You can revolve forever.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Innies or outies? Bro.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
They don't have a cord to snip.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
So smooth.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And we belly checked.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Yeah, we got belly checks, but we have not seen Irving's navel.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Yeah, I was going to say, this is Battlestar Galactica territory.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
This is pod people stuff. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
That's true. Okay, I love this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
The belly button theory.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Is that what you want to call it?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
The belly button theory. Yeah. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
We're navel gazing. There it is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Love it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But then you get to the leftovers and you're like, let the mystery be.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And saying from the start, we're not going to explain this to you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I love both The Ending of Lost and Leftovers, as you know. I think I have a slight preference just in general in terms of puzzle boxes or theorycraft or all that sort of stuff for there to be a question that I, the audience member, have to answer for myself in terms of what I believe. Do you know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Which is like what The Leftovers gives us is like a question that we can decide. Choose your adventure of what the ending of this is. And you might feel differently the next time you watch it through. Right. You know? And so then you are an active participant in the crafting of the story. And I think that is like, among other things, the genius of The Leftovers.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And so for something like Severance, I get really worried and protective of theory craft shows. I get really worried and protective of shows that have... booming Reddit threads going because I am worried that nobody's going to be satisfied with what the ending is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And so that's why I almost prefer to a certain degree that we never quite exactly know, you know, but that will piss off, you know, its own subset of people.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
When you get explicit, seemingly explicit references to Lost on this show, like when people are like, hey, those are the numbers. What does that do to you as a Severance fan?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
There are the numbers on their lockers.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
The MDR team, in the scene when they are all going into their lockers and going down the elevator one by one, each person had a lost number on their locker.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
This is new information for you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Dan Erickson, who runs the show.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I also watch Lost.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And so, and now- You didn't invent the nosebleed as like a ticking clock on something.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
She's good, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
The locker numbers are 4, 16 and 23.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
That's not a coincidence. Sometimes we're reaching for the lost references and sometimes they are just there. So this last question might come from either Rob or me, who's to say, we as a collective, Rob and Joanna, would like your take on the Luca trade on the record.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
All right, this week's episode is Chakai Bardo. I am pronouncing it pretty close to how it's pronounced in the show, but if my valley girl Chakai sounds like a little off, you can let me know. Directed by a cinematographer, Jessica Lee Gagné. This is her directorial debut, but she is this sort of main DP for the last season and a half of Severance.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And specifically, in your professional opinion, as someone who has wrestled with the infinite mystery of the universe, how could this have possibly happened?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It's a mystery box.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
You said that so grudgingly and is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But you do have a conspiracy theory about this trade. However the game goes tonight. Weren't you saying outside?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I love you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
You should check for a belly button.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Okay, great.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Well, I hope that happens for all of us.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It's a violation if they don't tuck?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
To be untucked. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Okay. So... If Luca flashes his belly button to the camera at the Laker game tonight, everyone will know why. It will be Damon Lindelof's work. Thank you so much, Damon Lindelof, for coming on the podcast. We appreciate you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And you'll be back for our podcast on House of R?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Yeah, yeah, yeah. With Mallory.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
I do. All right. Thanks. Bye. Wow, what a good chat that was. That's my best impression of Adam Scott at the end of all the interviews on the Severance podcast. Damon's the best. Thanks so much to Damon and Linda for coming in and having a chat with us.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Again, you can see that full interview where we talk about some things that did not quite pan out in episode seven, but it's still fun to talk about anyway. Of course. On the Ringer TV YouTube channel.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And I feel like she really showed up and splashed out with the visual, like the flashback visuals and everything. We'll talk about some of the specifics there. And then written by Dan Erickson, series creator, and Mark Friedman. I want to start here, Rob. What do you, Rob, think happens in this episode?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
We both wanted you here, and let's do it again when you're down here and we're all in the same place, maybe.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Okay, sounds perfect. Thank you to Justin Sales for his tireless work on this very vibrant and busy feed. Similarly to John Richter, who has been working his tail off on the video side of everything. And to our guy, Kai Grady.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Who is just the best and did incredible work turning that Damon interview around and all sorts of stuff. So we will see you for White Lotus next week. And for severance again and again and again. And here we are in the carousel of content. See you soon. Bye.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Because I think there is some, though not a lot, of potential wiggle room in terms of interpreting what we see. What's your interpretation?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
OK, let's say, do you believe everything we see on the testing floor is actually what is happening on the testing floor?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Me too. Do you think that everything we saw in flashback form, was that Mark POV or was that Gemma POV or was that some sort of combination of the two?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Do you think... That sort of collective, unconscious combination of the two approach the flashback. Does that sort of help us understand why Mark might be uniquely qualified to refine Gemma, if that is in fact exactly... We'll get into sort of the specifics of what we may think is happening in the refining process.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
But do you feel like that underlines that sort of connection, collective memory, collective emotional experience that they share?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Damon will explain it, as you mentioned, in a bit more detail. But how does all of this jive with your understanding of the concept of the bardo?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
It's early, Rob. I'm not going to make you talk about what is your concept of death.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
She also mentions ego death. Yep. And do you want to talk about where we've seen that card before?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Thank you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And Gemma just got it in the mail, man.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
All right. Basically, we're taking, so this idea of the bardo, which is this liminal space between life and death. And again, once again, Damon Lindelof will do a great job of, explaining in more detail what that is. But we could interpret... We could apply that to... to Mark, who's on the verge of collapse, you know, throughout this episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
He's... After hitting the floor pretty hard last week, like... There are there is a version of the story where he doesn't make it on the other side of this episode. And and then also Gemma, who is post death of a kind.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Living out her afterlife. And this idea of the Bardo as a space where you will meet all the people you ever knew in your life or versions of yourself, I guess, is sort of more applicable to what is going on here. I like to think of this as like a new circle of hell, the testing floor. We've been talking about lumen or, you know, the severed floor as, as an underworld, as a hell sort of space.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And this is just like another, another trip to another circle, uh, in, in the Dante sense of hell. And our, our listener Katie wrote in, this is her recap of what she feels like is happening on the testing floor.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
She also recommends we watch the OA, uh, You know, especially if we are like fiending for more Jason Isaacs in our life. She says, is this Lumen's game to sell severance to the masses to cut out plane rides? Did you have a moment where you're like, plane rides? We talked about that on the podcast.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Like that we were joking about it and they're like, no, but seriously.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
To sell severance to the masses, to cut out plane rides, root canals, abusive family dynamics, sexual trauma is Lumen's future one where everyone has a chip in their head and brothels are legal again because who cares? The women won't remember what you do to them. No pain meds for surgeries or procedures because those are risky and expensive. Better to just do it while severed.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
And we're here to talk to you about a doozy of an episode of Severance. We have a lot to get to. I could do this for hours, literally, but we will try to do it in our usual allotted Prestige time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 7 With ‘Lost’ Cocreator Damon Lindelof
Yeah, so once again, a spooky new layer to our What Would You Sever game that we've been playing. And I mean, this is my interpretation. There's a couple options here. I think that seems to be the main one. Or because we saw in season one a woman who sort of severed herself out of her labor experience, right? So that's an option. But also, in terms of having a workforce that you sever...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and piña colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I've also heard it's 76 minutes long 76 minutes long correct episode 10 76 minutes long so we will be breaking down that that next week and that finale episode is going to drop Thursday night so like right after the finale airs this podcast we usually do this on a Friday morning this podcast will be up Thursday night next week.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
uh dylan no okay and then here's my fave personally on the pod on the official pod this week which was like not the most uh i i i think i got the least out of this particular official pod um not out of entertainment but like i think they're just holding all their cards very close to you have to right here before the finale so i understand why
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
But their interview this week was Sydney Cole Alexander, who plays Natalie. And she had this really interesting part where she was talking about early in the season, the two encounters between Natalie and Milchick, when Milchick is trying to have this sort of like... hey, have you, a person of color, had this same experience as I, a person of color? Can we find fellowship and common cause here?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And what Sidney Cole Alexander said is that she as an actress made this choice to lean into Natalie's what she called light-skinnedness to say, no, we are not the same, you and I. I am a light-skinned person of color and you are not. And that makes me different slash different. quote unquote, like better, like in the warped imaginations of a Natalie. So could a Natalie be a secret Egan?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Okay, so to recap, it's Rickon.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And unfortunately, perhaps Harmony has, you know, mothered a secret or acclaimed Egan. Okay, so that has been the stomach-churning game of Secret Egan. If you have... nominations for this bleak bleak game uh you can email us at pineapple bobbing at gmail.com or prestige tv at spotify yeah who else could it be like like mark w secret egan alia alia shawkat secret egan yeah yeah yeah um sure um
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
He's a continental traveler.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
That's true. Okay. Let's go sort of person by person as we go through this episode because everyone is kind of siloed into their own story by design. We are meant to say, wow, Milchick's plan of basically decimating the MDR camaraderie has certainly worked.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And everyone's in their own little side plot. But let's start not with a member of the MDR team. Let's start with Milchick.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Milchick v. Drummond. Drummond. This is an incredible encounter, obviously. What do you think that the only reason he wasn't fired on the spot is because of this intensive pressure around the completion of Cold Harbor?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
But we have a bonus episode next week because we just want to like squeeze every last drop of milk out of that goat, I guess. I hated it, too. So Wednesday at noon Pacific. Rob and I are doing like a live Q&A mailbaggy thing on YouTube. So we'll have links up in our socials and stuff like that. But you can find us on Ringer TV, the YouTube channel.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
No other way he would not be fired on the spot for what he did here, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
way way too cute I kind of agree with you even though my understanding is that it is quite popular a moment among people a satisfying thing to say to one's horrible boss but somehow less satisfying than eat shit yeah Were you, fellow Buffy head, reminded of – because our listener Vinny pointed out that when he says to put that monosyllabically, he then follows it with monosyllables.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Like, it's not my fault what Mark Scout does when he is not at work. It's yours, right? Yes. Did it remind you at all of Buffy and Spike out for a walk?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Bitch. I'm always thinking about Spike when I can. I kind of agree. So there's a few callbacks inside of this episode. This is more of a resolution, not a callback. But there's a few moments that call back in ways that satisfy me. This episode ends with She's Alive, which was the cliffhanger ending of the season one finale.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Nothing tops the season one finale of the slow-mo.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
But, you know, there's a couple different callbacks and some work and some don't. And, yeah, some feel a little too cute for me. And I'm inclined to agree with you. As for Miss Wong, who is sent to Gunnell Egan's Empathy Center in Svalbard where she will work to steward global reforms. Yeah. this feels to me like a Milchik call rather than a Lumen call.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
This is Milchik being like, you hung me out to dry. You narked on me. I do not like having you here. I'm sending you to Svalbard, which if you thought it was cold and dreary and cure, wait till you get a load of Svalbard. That's tough. Anything you want to say about
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
It's a classic rebranding.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Let me tell you my inside baseball reason why I think this is the last we see of Miss Wong. How soon do you think it's going to be until we get Severance season three?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
We will be... You can email us your questions, Rob. Where can they reach us for this podcast?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Yeah, this is a classic. This is a classic. I source this back to the TV show Lost where they had a kid in the first season and then he just got really tall and they had to sort of contort the plot to write him out of the show. Tall Waltz. So this happens all the time on shows when you cast kids. This is why allegedly the Harry Potter actors for the potentially ill-advised HBO show. Who's to say?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
HBO show that they're making. Um, I think they're making it like back to back to back to back because those kids are going to grow and they have to try to like outpace them. So, um, Miss Wong, the actress who plays Miss Wong, uh, Sarah Bach, I believe has just enrolled in college.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And she was talking about like, was it Britt Lauer? It was like one of one of her one of the castmates.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Who like recommended her like that she check out Northwestern.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Yeah. Britt Lauer rec letter for Northwestern. But like, yeah, I mean, you know, anyway. Okay. I feel like that's probably the last we'll see of Miss Wong, and I think your idea of her as a mystery sponge is one thing, but I think mostly it's just to sort of show... And I could be wrong. They seem to really like her, but I think it's meant to show... Yes, the history of child labor at Lumen.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Sure. And then also, yeah, the potential insidious future. We talked about this in the previous pod, this idea that's floated in one of the newspaper clippings about Lumen experimenting with severing as young as five.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
So in terms of like that degree of child labor. Yeah. Grim. Quite grim.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
So... So you can send your theories, your questions, your queries there.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
A smidge less ether?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I feel like we've got more... With the potential clearing out of a number of other characters, Milchick is primed to be in the mix next week. And so I hope there's something more than plot for him to do.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Who among us hasn't stared at a too small iceberg photo on the wall to inspire us to give grace to our colleagues, as they call in? Should we throw one up in the void? Yeah. For me here, some ambiance here in the void.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I also really like that Mark's like, I just need the day. I'm not sick. I just need the fucking day. I support it. OK, so let's let's turn from those plot lines to something more overtly emotional, which is like Irving and Dylan. We'll talk about them one by one. But I wanted to group them together here because I'm going to go ahead and call in front of the pod.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Alan Sepinwall was talking to me about this episode and I was like expressing some of my frustrations. He pointed out, and I really like this point, that like Irving and Dylan inside of this episode exist as this sort of like
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
cautionary tale for the love triangle quadrangle polycule that we're tracking with mark and his various ladies oh yeah previously harmony cabal said quite memorably that there's no honeymoon ending waiting for mark right and that hasn't stopped us from trying to like do the math that will make it work out there's a lot of math involved though the geometry is getting increasingly complex
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
How can Gemma be happy and Helly be happy and maybe even Helena be happy and all the Marks be happy? You know, and what we see here with the absolute dissolution of the Dylan Dylan Gretchen love triangle.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And the Irving, the Berving. You want to you want to give us.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Rob, it's incredible. Thank you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
No, thank you. And then Irving and Bert and this sad ending for them. I do want to talk about this. You mentioned feeling more emotional. I got really wound up by the Dylan stuff. The birthing stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
That sounds great. So, yeah. So live Q&A on Wednesday at noon Pacific. Thursday night drop for the finale pod. And then we'll have a follow-up pod for you guys at the beginning of the next week where we can engage with all of your emails, your reactions to the finale, all that sort of stuff. And we might have something more to do, but we will reveal that as it comes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Well, it did and it didn't. Okay, so we're in... I had texted you before you saw the episode that there was like an unexpected say nothing crossover.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
But what I meant was...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Yeah. That they took a plotline of a main character of Say Nothing and this idea of how implicated are you in the dirty deeds if you're just driving the people to the place where they get shot or otherwise mangled or buried. So it turns out that... Burt, as we expected, is an enforcer of some kind for Lumen.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
A hench. But has such like unexplained feelings for Irving that he is trying to smuggle him out of, uh, cure before Drummond can do anything to him. Right. Yeah. So they go to this train station, which they filmed in, but still are pronounced at Utica. I've always pronounced it Utica, but I think he's right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And I'm wrong anyway, in, in, in Utica on the East coast, there's a, there's a Utica in California as well, but that's not where they were. Um, and then they say goodbye. And there is this, uh, Here's what I'll say. I am a huge crier at TV shows. You know this about me. I've told you that I cry during episodes of The Pit.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Are you a TV crier, Rob? I don't know that I know if you are.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
So the callback that you're referencing here is in season one, episode six in the plant room, Irving and Bert share this moment where Bert is like, hey, there's nothing in the handbook that says we can't have lip to lip contact. And Irving's like, well, actually, blah, blah, blah. And Burt kind of goes for it. Irving says, I'm truly sorry, but I'm just not ready.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And Burt says, and rewatching that, this scene actually kind of got choked up. The season one, episode 16. Yeah. The way that Walken as Burt delivers, just stay, stay here with me. So I'm not ready. Just stay here with me. Versus I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. Bert saying Bon Voyage, buddy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Yes. There's more tender stuff. But like versus just stay here with me. Bon Voyage, buddy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
But no, no, no. I'm not I'm not I'm not anti the writing of it. It's it's a crushing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Attempt at, you know, distancing himself from intimacy to say buddy. Yeah. All of that sort of stuff. I will say this. I feel like I'm kind of an easy mark for a cry. And thinking about, you know, some of the shows that I love the most, some of the shows that you and I, like, thinking about The Leftovers and thinking about, like, if you think about a moment like this in The Leftovers...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
given the way that they built all of those stories, I would be like sobbing through this. This would be devastating. And there is, you know, and Chris and Andy have been flagging this all season. There is this sort of like, Slightly antiseptic quality. I will bout to reverse completely when we get to Dylan. I will talk about that in a second.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
So that's all of our severance plans. In addition to the ongoing White Lotus coverage, Rob and I dipped into the hit this week. Rob, this is our third Prestige episode together this week. Do you have any takes left in you, or did you reserve some takes for Severance, or are you all taped out?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
But there is a slightly sort of like chilly quality that kept me at a slight remove. And I wanted to just sort of like... be devastated and feel it and be swept away by it. But that's sort of like where I sat with it. How about you?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I think, again, Damon Lindelof put this really well when we were talking to him about it, this idea of your soul is your soul is your soul, whether you're an innie and an outie. And if you are drawn to someone as an innie, you're going to be drawn to them as an outie. See also Helena and Mark at the Chinese restaurant. This is just sort of like idea of a connection that transcends whatever.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I do think he feels that and has this obligation to fields or this understanding that there's nothing they can do because Lumens would never let this happen and it would put Irving in danger and all this sort of stuff like that. So I think he is feeling it, not just like – Honoring it intellectually, but feeling it emotionally. That's my understanding of it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
So for the love of coffee, go try them now. Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And it's I love like bittersweet is such a good description of it. I love it. They wanted to, but they didn't. That's a really good storytelling mode that I absolutely love. The brief encounters sort of thing. So again, I just sort of expected to feel much more than I wound up feeling. I don't know. Maybe... Maybe the pit sort of just like drained it out of me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Absolutely. Listen, there are some questions that still need to be answered in terms of like, who is he talking to on the phone this season? Yes. Like all that sort of stuff that that makes me feel like we should see him again.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
But also Totoro has been saying things in interviews all season that makes it sound like he here's what here's actually what I think the state of affairs is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Totoro is not sure if he wants to come back. So they've done an Apple-esque save, like we put him on a train and we could bring him back if we need to, or that's the last time we've seen Irving.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I would be devastated, honestly. Yeah, I would be really crushed if we did not get any more Irving, but it's possible.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
He talked about how much he hated... A sad thing, I think, for all of us is we haven't seen the MDR team together since the Orpo, right? And we haven't seen them together in the office since episode three, which is what we initially understood to be the premise of the show. And they bent over backwards to... to contort the plot, to get them all back together, but for one episode, you know?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
So when we see, and we're meant to feel that when we see Heli alone at the four desk, you know, set up, like we're meant to feel that, but Totoro has said a number of interviews, how much he hated specifically filming under the lights of the office. So I wonder if like Totoro's like, I'll come back, but you're not putting me on that office set for more than like a few days.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And I should say that Mallory Rubin, when watching this episode, texted me five minutes in and she's like, is Radar going to be okay? You need to tell me this before I watch more of this episode. Our listener Elena probably wrote in, with a fun fact that I didn't know, the dog who plays Radar is also the dog who played Mondale on Succession.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
The dog is named Ditto, a very good boy, playing both Radar and Mondale. So here's the question from Alina. Okay. Is this dog better off with Berving, but it won't be, so I guess with Irving on a train going somewhere, or with Shiv and Tom?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Well, you notoriously love to dissect an egg into uncomfortably small pieces and eat it in front of your dad? Even the egg cutter.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Like the tiniest crate for that dog despite so much room in their house.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Devastating. Devastating for our guy Irving. You know, how old is John Turturro in his 60s, would you say? Seems fair guess. To have, you know, someone like that say, like, I've never experienced romantic love at all in my life.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
As an outie. And then we get to Dylan and Innie who says to Gretchen, like, my life started when I met you. Yeah. I did not exist before you. And she's like, sure you did. And he's like, nope, it was just finger traps and erasers. And that was it. It was nothing, you know?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
So I think it's really poignant to have both an Audi in Irving and an innie in Dylan be like, I've never, this is my first like brush up against the concept of love.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
What a heady, powerful thing it is. And to think about every innie on the show, Helly and Mark definitely included, um, Every relationship we've seen, this is like first love, which is like an extremely potent brew, to quote Molly Rubin. So Dylan and Gretchen and Dylan.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Nice Mickey 17 reference. I feel like there's a way these crazy kids could have made this throuple work.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
But I mean, I'm with any Dylan. Like, why wouldn't he be happy that, you know, we all get to... I don't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I don't either. There are some kitchen implements where I'm just sort of like, we don't need this. And it makes me uncomfortable.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
That she can tell the difference between Audi Dylan and any Dylan. And she likes any Dylan better is what you're saying.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
She doesn't say better.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And she's keeping it secret for a reason. Here's my Sunshine and Lollipops hopeful sort of, once again, representing the Bay Area pro-thruple argument. We love a polycule. Isn't there a way in which any Dylan and Gretchen interactions could, like, Help reawaken Gretchen's connection to Audi Dylan. Remind her what she loved about him in the first place.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And remind her to look for those things in him in his Audi version, not just him being Deeply inept around the house and all the other things that are true about him. Do you know what I mean? Like, yes. Or, you know, and this is certainly what Audi Dylan is afraid of. She gives up on Audi version entirely because she's got access to any Dylan like for sure. That's the fear.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
But I feel like there's a way in which. All of this could make a rising tide could raise all boats and we could all sort of like get something out of this. Again, I'm trying to force a honeymoon ending for fucking someone in this debacle. And Dylan and Gretchen and Dylan are like, I don't know, maybe my my best option here, but maybe not.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Okay, I have a follow-up question for you on this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
i just here's what i think and admittedly i've never been inside a love triangle with myself and my wife but like with the other version of you that your wife told you not to worry about yeah yeah don't worry about it um but like are we not all being a bit hasty like gresham breaks the news these are matters of the heart joe they they happen in hasty fashion
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
What about, like, citrus juicer?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Can't we just say, hey, listen, we got to pump the brakes on this for a second. You're out. He's having a hard time with it. I'm going to keep talking to him about it. Let's see how we feel. He's threatening to quit, which is effectively killing any Dylan, right? Like, I'll kill him, essentially.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
So I understand why Gretchen would be like, I got to put the stop to this to save you, essentially. But I just feel like there's a way. I mean, I understand we're inside of a TV show and it's full of drama. But like, isn't there just a way that we could all just like take a beat, go to some couples counseling? But who's going to the counseling?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Helena had a conversation with Heli.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
No. Okay. We're going to come back to that. Also, the heartbreak. Dylan, Zach Cherry, like screaming Gretchen. The proposal with the ring.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Beautiful stuff from our guy. This is the second podcast this week. I'm going to say this, but... any Dylan hidden Swifty paper rings. Who's to say, um, I say yes, but, um, yeah, very, very sad stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
That's the loophole I thought you were going to find.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Um, that's a great question.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Severance, with love and respect, is so inconsistent on this front. We've talked about this. Alia Shawkat being like, what does wind feel like?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Versus like, they know how to dress themselves. You know what I mean? It's just sort of like, there's just like, what do they retain? And earlier in the season, we did get like long emails from brain scientists who were just sort of like, this is how memory works or whatever.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
like taylor swift might be a big enough cultural event that it could sort of permeate on you yeah bigger than wind taylor swift bigger than wind there i said it okay um let's talk about the eagans um the not so secret eagans um egg egg stuff go is what i wrote here uh in this we've already talked about the egg stuff a bit um one of our listeners francesca pointed out that helena was eating the uh taking small cuts and only eating the boiled white the outer yeah
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
The outie of the egg.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I've never heard your accent come through stronger than on the word yolk.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Do you know that I used to – I worked in a bakery and – I didn't know this. Yeah, just briefly when I was a teenager. And we had this thing that I loved that was almost like a pencil sharpener where you basically like stab the apple onto it and you like crank it and it peels the apple. And it was just for like mass apple peeling for like various like strudels and pies and stuff like that. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Okay. And then our listener who signed the email Ted word. So I'm just going to take them for their word that that is their name. Okay. Says, would you rather eat a raw egg while Jamie Egan watches you or watch Jamie Egan eat a raw egg in front of you?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I would rather you had taken it raw.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I wish you'd take them raw. Please. That's what he said.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Or even I let's. Or loudly moan. How about no moaning at the breakfast table?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
A no moan zone at the breakfast table.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Okay. Do you think he is not eating himself? Because of his revolving procedure?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
It's soylent. Soylent in blood bags. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Okay, great. Okay. This is what Dan Erickson said in the post-episode thing that went up on Apple after the episode credits. He says, Jamie Egan is never going to give her the foundational love that we all need in order to be human beings. Duh. I mean, like, I could have told you that, but not duh to him, but like, is this something Helena is only just realizing as she is
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Bisecting and bisecting and bisecting a boiled egg in front of her creepy, creepy father after her coal plunge swim.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I mean, not to be like an absolute rube, but you can also just like take a boiled egg and take a bite of it, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
With, like, yolk crumbs coming out. Of course.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
That's simply a no for me. Listen, this is a big day for Jamie again. Everything. It's all coming. It's all culminating around whatever's happening with Cold Harbor, et cetera, et cetera. We don't really understand what it is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I think they have to complete Cold Harbor. Yes. So that he can revolve. Yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Pretty sick stuff, but no egg cutter. You mentioned the cold, frosty environs that we find all of our Egans and otherwise in. One last note on sort of timing of next week. Our listener Zach wrote in to point out that the season two finale is airing on March 21st, which is the spring equinox, a.k.a. the day in mythology that Persephone emerges from Hades and begins spring.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And I don't know how those two things are related, but that's what feels true to me. And as Harmony points out in this episode, in that process, Gemma is either literally or at least figuratively dead. As good as dead.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Yeah. What did she say exactly? Um... She says, and if you've completed it, well, well, what? She's already dead. But, like, she's already dead, honestly, in a show like Severance could mean, like, a number of things. Do you know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
On this idea of, like, revolving who sits with Keir, all this sort of stuff like that. One of our listeners wrote in to underline the fact that in episode eight, when our favorite character, Sissy, is talking about like the rooms in the house, she says that room stays shut until all who remember her sit with Kier.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
So the idea of sit with Kier as a phrase just meaning dead. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Pass on. Yeah. I think that's just something. Again, that's just sort of like.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
flowery language to think about when we parse whatever they're trying to say of like be at my side of my revolving like what is that what does that mean you know in the in the language of this world um helly you already mentioned the dylan helly conversation which i thought was really good dylan identifying the most hurtful thing that he could possibly say to her um but her being the kind of person who's like fuck it i'm gonna do this but her being like irving did know the difference
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And what did Irving want? Irving wanted us to figure out what was going on with the elevator. So I'm going to do this thing that Irving wanted. Yeah. And that is her goal. She's the last faithful to use traitor's language left at the cubicle. And then here comes dad to say, my helly, you tricked me. Yeah. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
That's deeply true. I wish you had taken it raw. Okay. So like, um, my hell, you tricked me. Do you think this is just a reference to the season one finale, uh, where she did indeed trick him there?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
On the one hand, yes. And thank you for using the proper Silicon Valley language. On the other hand, tricked is such an interesting word.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Right. Like you let me down. You lie. You know, like you lied to me. Like something like that. Like you didn't follow through something, something, something. But like you tricked me speaks to like a level of truth.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
deception which is not really the case here it's just a fail a failure yeah if you want to call it that you know so that's me that's why i thought maybe he was talking about and he calls her heli he does call her heli you know but did but did he call his daughter helena at one point heli right like maybe that's why she this heli was heli in the first place I don't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I don't know the answer to that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I haven't had my soy late this morning. It's very early, Rob. I don't know what to tell you. Okay. Anyway, anything else you want to say about Hallie, Helena... How is she going to get out of this one sort of situation that we find her in?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
It's also full moon this week, and it's full moon on White Lotus this week as well, so I don't think they're planning any of this. I don't think so either, but if they are... The Northern Californian in me loves to talk about it, so, you know. Okay, so let's start with big picture thoughts on the episode. Rob... Last week's episode, episode eight, was, I would say, quite controversial.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Not the goat people.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Dream bigger than the goat people.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
You hated the goat people.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I feel like what we really should have seen in this episode is Dylan and Helly go... prowling in o and d for new partners you know what i mean a little mixer yeah well o and d mixer let's let's put on those like the the dance lights yeah let's crank up the music people in that department so many and you can make anything you need for a proper like date mixer setting That sounds great.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Now compare that to the little shit tunnel that they had to crawl through to get to the goat people. And I think the choice is obvious.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Okay. Harmony, Devin, Mark.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Let's start on a high. Let's start on a high.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
With the sarcasm twist. Who do you think had the better zinger?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Was it Devin saying, sorry, the wind was whistling over the hole in the back of your skull, so I didn't quite get that? Or was it Mark...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
saying to harmony oh my god so good my wife is being held at lumen and i just had brain surgery in my basement who is the better uh wielder of of the snark uh in this episode rob it's got to be mark just because i can see party down adam scott coming out to play and he's always welcome here so good 100 party down
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Very good. Very good. Um, okay. So I, I'm very frustrated by this, but I'm hopeful for a payoff in the finale, but I do feel like quite sort of strung along by what happened inside of this episode with this trio, uh, or actually, uh, square of people. Um, Something that I did like. I didn't like the, like, let's hang out all day and not talk about anything.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
maybe she brought some ether and they all like, you know, give us some, like hook us up, please. But when, when we are in Mark, any marks, Mark S's perspective, when he comes into the birthing cabin. Yes. And he's like, what the fuck? And he tries to like walk out the door. And Devin says, if you walk out that door, he's just going to come right back in again. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Of course, this is like a call back to Hallie and Helena.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
in a way that could feel overly cutesy. But to me, I really, really liked it because... Unlike – so the thing with Irving that pings for me slightly is like it's outie Irving saying something that builds upon something innie Irving said. Yeah. And I guess in like a deeply romantic sense you could say he just knows that he wasn't ready before and he's ready now or something like that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
So let's put that two aside. And I'll say here Devin has no way of knowing that this is like something that they have said to Helly or Helena on the floor. She's not consciously referencing anything. But what they are doing in the pursuance of their goal is, like, using the weapons, like, the machinations of their enemy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
People felt pretty divided on it. A lot of people felt quite negative on it. How are you? You know, and we we said it wasn't our favorite episode, but I thought we found a lot of like good stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
They are treating any mark as, like, someone without autonomy in order to get what they need, which is to get to Gemma.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Are they still heroes that I'm rooting for? Yes. But, like, you know... What will they stop at to get to their goal? And when we've seen people treat innies as like prisoners or people with no choice of what to do, those have been villains. So what are we to make when maybe our most beloved character, Devin, is the one doing it? You know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
She knows what Cold Harbor is and Mark certainly doesn't.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
We certainly don't.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
The only pushback I have on that is like the thing that Mark has that Harmony doesn't and it's the reason why he's been able to get away with any Mark, been able to get away with so much is like some ineffable understanding of the numbers that you need to complete Cold Harbor.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
You know what I mean? I don't know how you interrogate that in a meaningful way. But yeah, you're right that the woman who fucking invented severance and has run the severed floor and knows the ins and outs of lumen has much more intel. This is the one thing that Indy Mark has that she doesn't have. Though, again, I don't know if he knows even how to explain what he's done with Cold Harbor.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
How did you feel about episode nine? Where are you sitting with this?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I thought we got some really interesting feedback from... actually two Mikes, one who went by Mike and one who went by Michael. Mike wrote, and maybe they're innie and outtie, who knows, but Mike wrote, I'm just as confused as I'm sure all the other viewers of what the fuck is going on with this quote reintegration of Mark.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Each episode since the long needle in the brain has given us hardly any Mark time. But when we do see him, we get no reintegration reveal outside of the one right before he passes out, which seemed like some sort of info dump overload. So like the idea of giving us we were like, holy shit, they did reintegration for Mark at the beginning of the season.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Where are we now? Yeah. You know, like this many episodes later. Still sort of twiddling our thumbs waiting for this whole thing to come together. So which I am feel pretty confident it will in the finale in a way that will probably smooth over a lot of these like minor bumps and scrapes along the way.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
But it's just like in the current and this is the only time this will be true because after that finale airs ever after people can just like binge the season and will not feel this sort of like mid-season antsiness. But as it stands right now, the cadence of the reintegration reveal is like,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Okay, to recap, no moaning at the breakfast table. Nope. If you've got a hole in your head, you get to sit in the front of the car. Is that unreasonable? It's despite the cloak and dagger of the sort of operation that they're in. Are you saying we, okay, and I'm not opposed to it. Are you saying we should have slapped a wig on Mark and put the baby bump under his shirt?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Okay, great. I would love to see it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
No room in the rabbit at all. Okay. Michael wrote, and this made me laugh, maybe the Cure Lumen is really working on as a way to make people not slow down to 110 speed every time they say the words cold harbor.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Cold Harbor. Anything else? I think we've gone a little long and we've got plenty that we want to save for like our Q&A and stuff like that. Anything else you want to touch on in terms of this episode, Rob Mahoney?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And it's why more than ever I don't want Helena slash Helen to be pregnant because that's interesting. But I would like there to be some women – female characters on the show where that is not – It's an ambitious goal, Jo. Okay. Thanks. Thanks for rooting for me. Before we go, this listener asked to not be named but I didn't.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
We got an email from a listener telling us to check out the track In the Bath by Lemon Jelly. Did you have a listen?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
One minute into that track. It's a long track. It's a six-minute track. One minute in. If you care to listen on Spotify, wherever you get your music, you'll hear... the severance theme song, a very familiar, uh, progression of notes. And I haven't been able to find an interview where the composer like references this song. Um, so I don't know. That's it's, it's interesting. Uh, you know,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
is it a direct inspiration is it the collective unconscious is it an Indian Audi and alternate lives in music lemon jelly actually the Audi of the any that is the composer you never know the severance theme uh shout out to the severance music it's amazing and and like this this idea consistently yeah lifting a little bit a few notes from something happens all the time obviously one might call it art you know that that's this was how this stuff is made a lot of the time
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
It is a wild moment. You're like in this vibey track and then all of a sudden you're like, oh.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Why do I have a compulsion to not eat any eggs in front of anyone ever again? All right. So, pineapplebobby at gmail.com.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Ringer TV on YouTube is where you'll find us next week at noon for a live Q&A. Prestige TV at Spotify.com is where you can also send questions, comments, concerns, theories, observations. We have a few like sort of bigger picture observations that are less than Theory Corner that I want to save for that. So I'm excited to get to that. We've had so many amazing emails from you guys this season.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
It's been really incredible.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I'm really excited to talk to you about like how well those emotional moments hit or not for me as we go through. But I agree. I had like table setter in my notes here. I had checking in on plot lines we've been away from for three weeks. Only to sort of clear the deck of players because there's a version of the finale where we don't see Irving, Bert. Miss Wong or maybe even Dylan.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Thank you to the early morning crew on this, our last Severance Friday morning record. So thanks to John Richter, to Justin Sales, to Johnny Beach for filling in for Kai. And thanks to Rob Mahoney.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Yeah. Make sure to eat your yulks and we'll see you soon, y'all.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I know, you know, like this, this is like, it's potentially setting up a, just sort of like, we've put these characters to the side in the case of Irving, maybe forever question mark or, or who's to say. So I thought that was interesting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
We're here to talk to you about the, as Ben Stiller said a hundred different times in the official pod this week, the penultimate episode of Severance.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And then, so I, I don't, I liked this episode better than I liked episode eight, though, to be clear, you and I were higher on episode eight than like some of the more critical fan pieces of the fandom. But, um,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
My frustration points were a little sharper with this episode than they were with episode eight, because episode eight, sort of what Damon Lindelof was talking about when we talked to him early in the season about like sort of where in the season you can get away with certain things. And in an episode nine of a 10 episode season, when you have Harmony Cabal show up.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And dramatically say Cold Harbor and then not tell them what Cold Harbor is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
In a way that no human would ever do that. Only a TV character keeping us in suspense about what Cold Harbor is would do. That I felt like I felt the sort of the gears behind the storytelling, you know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Sort of groaning and creaking a little bit.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Thank you so much for sharing with us your incredible Harmony Cabal impression. And that reminds me that I should tell listeners, we here at The Ringer at Spotify are currently unable to put clips into our podcast for very boring reasons that we don't need to get into. But
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
He loves the word penultimate. And he has arrived. So before we get into this episode, we're here to talk to you about episode nine, The After Hours, written by the creator, Dan Erickson, and directed by Uta Brasovitz, who is, we've already talked about her as an incredible TV director previously in the season. So I'm excited to talk to you about this. We haven't talked about this at all, Rob.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
you will not hear any clips from the episode unlike last week where we crammed like so many clips in you won't hear any clips from the episode was it our fault?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
it might have been you won't hear any clips from the episode and we can't even do the birthing drop so we're going to have to rely on Rob's impression to get us through and this week of all weeks to not have the birthing drop is heartbreaking it's tough no crab rangoon we're bereft honestly but we'll soldier through
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
I wanted to start – I do want to go sort of like plot line by plot line, but I want to start with this like – let's check in on the opening credits.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Because this is something that we've been like looking at every week. Not every week, but like as the season evolves, we're sort of like, oh, that's what that vial of milky goo is. It's the medicine that Mark's taking or that's why there's an ice flow or that's why there's this, that and the other stuff. And so I'm looking at it and I'm like, what's still left –
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
That I don't feel like has been fulfilled by the plot yet.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Oh, we're going to get there. That's my last thing. First of all, more explicit Mark V. Mark scenarios. Do you know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
That's such a foundational part of the opening credits. And I don't know that I feel like I felt them in conflict with each other.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Okay, so I feel like there's some scenarios where it seems conflicted, but you're very right that there are also some scenarios where one is carrying the other, let's say, like under that elevator curtain part of the opening credits. Okay, there's that. So, Gemma in the testing floor elevator, we've seen. But that image in the opening credits flashes between Helena and Gemma.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And on the one hand, that could just be, hey, these are two women that have captured Mark's fancy, or... Are we going to see, as seems to be indicated in this episode, Hallie and or Helena get on that elevator and go down to the testing floor before all is said and done?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
She won't be, though. That's the one. That's the thing. OK, here's here's a theory I saw on Reddit this morning. Credit to the Redditors. They're the best. That really intrigued me. And again, we're going to we're going to save most of our what's going to happen the finale, even though I just started talking about it for Q&A.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
But if Helly and Mark both get on that testing floor elevator and go down.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
It will be their outies. on the testing floor yeah it will be chinese diner zufu energy down on the testing floor and that's very exciting to me they're not not exciting they're not going to make it out of that elevator those two in a confined space i put nothing past them i i think that could be really fun okay last but not least proliferation of baby cures That's one way to put it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
That brings me now to a segment I'm calling Secret Egan. A game I would like to play with you, Rob Mahoney.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
So I actually don't know how you feel about this episode. We're going to do sort of like a big picture look before we do that. Some like programming announcements and they're a little bit more detailed than they usually are.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
You know, Secret Baby for sure, but also this is reminding me of like in the... Were you a Battlestar Galactica person?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Yeah, Secret Cylon or the Height of Thrones mania, Secret Targaryen. Like this is a game we like to play. Okay, so Secret Egan. We get in this episode when they're breaking into the birthing cabins. She's one of James, right? Like that fake pregnant Devon. is one of James, which the implication is that Jamie Egan, like Elon Musk, has decided to just sort of spread his seed all around.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
He's a busy man. Um, there was a, uh, an item in the newspaper that, that mentioned that a woman got pregnant while she was severed.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
That was a whole thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
One of James is what I would say. Okay. So let's go down a list and I would just like to hear your input.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Rickon's on my list. Okay. Rob says yes. I'm just going to take notes here. Okay. Harmony Cabal. I think... Twofold.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Is she an Egan? And then has she had a child by an Egan?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Don't skip ahead like you usually do. Pay attention. Okay. Take notes. The Severance finale is next week.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Our listener Holly wrote, Harmony, if not an actual lactation consultant, knows enough to assist Devin, maybe from personal experience.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And we already mentioned this early in the season, but could that Egan in particular be Helena Helly? We know nothing about Helena's mom.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
Or like just like an Egan bastard. I mean, I guess they all are. I don't like that word. Anyway. Okay. A connected, distantly connected Egan.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?
And then I felt a little uneasy in my heart and my mind and my soul and my stomach when I Googled whether or not the following actors were biracial. But I did do that. So let's talk about this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and piña colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
It's the end of the week. This is always a joy for me on a Friday morning to talk to you about the latest severance episode. We get up early. We do this early in the morning so we can get it out for you guys. This episode is called Sweet Vitriol. written by Adam County and Casey Perry and directed by one Mr. Benjamin Stiller.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
and say, what, tame these tempers? Hell yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And, well, unless, you know, Lumen abducts him or something like that. That's true. But it sort of feels like a one and done for James LeGrow. But if Hampton wants to ride again, I would support that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
All right, Rob, what do you feel like you understand about Harmony Cabal's life after having watched this episode? What are the key things that we learned from this episode?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And just to remind folks who are listening to this, if you want to hear more from Rob and yours truly, we're also covering White Lotus on a weekly basis.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
On the one hand, galling. On the other hand, and again, we'll go back through and sort of revisit these moments throughout the last few seasons. I kind of believe that she was still a true believer until the, what is it, the tiger ate her face? Yeah. The leopard. The leopard ate her face. There it is. Okay. To go back, you started with this idea of the voice, the affected accent.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And something I thought that was really interesting. I've always wondered about her accent and also what John Turturro is doing. They're both doing this like affected mid-Atlantic.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And you mentioned Jane Alexander's sissy in this episode, but also something that Patricia Arquette said in a truly unhinged and delightful interview on the official podcast was that this was like sort of a – because she was born in poor circumstances – This is a sort of like sort of similar to Milchik. This is like a this is how I should speak to be taken seriously. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
By the high toned people that I work with now. This is what an upper class person sounds like. So this is what I will sound like. And this is how I will change my voice to fit in that way.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I think thinking about Miss Wong's use inside of this season as sort of this, like, you know, hearing Wintertide and all this sort of stuff like that, like, as this precursor to the way that Lumen and the Egan family, like, you know, we already had seen the shrine in Harmony's home. We knew that she had gone to a school, an Egan school, but...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Bill Simmons, ever heard of him? Molly Rubin and I are also covering White Lotus on Sunday nights. And then a couple of days later, Rob and I do it. Next week, we're headed back to the pit. So we're going to check in on our favorite doctors and all the trauma that's been happening in the week since we last checked in with them.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
You know, to see Miss Wong on the severed floor working like child labor as an early. So, no, not a clone of Gemma, not Mark and Gemma's child, but like just part of this child labor churn that they have been. probably since the dawn of time, taking advantage of. To your point, I really love this point.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
The idea that like Harmony, thinking about Harmony Cabal in Hampton as young child laborers in this factory, in the ether mill. Yeah. She says when they take a good huff of the ether, she hasn't done this since she was eight. So huffing ether... or inhaling it while they're working, I don't know. Perhaps intentionally as a way to disassociate from the horrors of their job, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
So to come up with this procedure that does the same thing, but just with more precision is really interesting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
To, like, torture, which is what we saw with Gemma, right? So... In the eagle-eyed Redditors... I mean, I know I'm talking to freeze-frame Mahoney here, so, like... We're going to come back to that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
You know your way around a freeze-frame, but... Previously, when we were in, or actually, I think this is like extra textual. They released a bunch of props from the Zufu Chinese restaurant set online in some article or another. And definitely the writers were pouring over it. And there were news articles that they had written that mention Zufu.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Incident at Salt's Neck, ether spill, like ether mill ruins town, town sues, you know, yada, yada, Aaron Brockovich, like sort of thing, right? And then also in one of the articles that they released as part of this sort of like prop display, there was also a Crab Rangoon sign, by the way, just shout out. to the Prestige TV podcast. Crab spelled with a K. Can we buy it? I think we should.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Crab with a K. Crab Rangoon from the Zufu Chinese restaurant. That they were creating a version of the chip for children as young as five. Jesus. Grim.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And we still keep getting emails about this. So I will keep reminding you that Yellow Jackets is now being covered over on the House of Our Feed. Molly Rubin and I are covering it, not this week, but usually week to week on the House of Our Feed. We're covering Yellow Jackets over there. It was a very dense week over on the regular verse. So that is what is going on around the various feed sites.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And didn't come home. to see her at the end of all things because she was too busy sort of like with work and school and like wasn't allowed or whatever but it still feels like a choice something in looking uh into ether which is something that was a fun part of my job this week um there's a few long-term effects of ether addiction this is related to what you're saying though
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
One is memory loss, right? Prolonged ether use leads to memory impairment, making it difficult to recall recent events or retain new information. So, you know, we're on the severance beat there. But also... in terms of her mom, and this is the breathing tube we've been seeing since season one. This has been a prop.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
We sort of thought by the dates that it might pertain to her mom, the date that was like on the breathing tube. We saw in the Shriner house. We saw her look at it in the car on the way to Salt's Neck. Like, so this has been, this is the answer. A side effect of prolonged exposure to ether is chronic respiratory issues.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Frequent inhalation of ether results in chronic breathing problems, including coughing, shortness of breath, and respiratory infections.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I mean, huffing it directly or just goddamn working in an ether mill. Because, like, I have to imagine that that ether mill has been there for a while. And, like, the whole town, again, once again, to, like, everything I know about everything in life I learned from films, and I apologize for that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Once again, to invoke Aaron Brockovich or any sort of like similar story, like if you think about you were talking about this, like a town destroyed by industry. Yeah. A town destroyed by ether, like ether inhalation that everyone there has weird chronic breathing issues or memory issues, you know, like that's just horrifying.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Sweet vitriol, the name of this episode, Rob, is another sort of a condensed version of a name for ether. Sweet oil of vitriol is what diethyl ether, which we will talk about aplenty as we do this podcast.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
No, you can. I've heard it both. Like it's more commonly Imogen, but I have heard Imogen.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Imogen is like a real old tiny way of saying Imogen for sure. I think this other thing that we learned because knowing that she was not just like at this Egan school, but also was a child laborer. really underlines this sort of like, has Harmony Cobell ever lived a life? Yeah. You know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And so something that she was talking about a little bit, Patricia was talking about a little bit on the official pod, and I think is really evident when you go back and think about it, is her Mrs. Selvig stuff, on the one hand, was creepy spying on Mark. Scientific exploration, which we'll talk about a little bit more as she's kind of testing the bounds of severance, the walls in her own way.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
But also, as the con goes on, she starts to enjoy just not being in the office and not...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
centering everything in her life around lumen like when she's with devon yeah and she's just like telling stories and cracking jokes and talking about babies like are there ways in which this is just like actually her enjoying her life or when she like shares a smooch with hampton here like is it just sort of like harmony cabal has never truly lived and you know
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Can I float a fun little theory about you?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Okay. Diethyl ether? Sure. Does that sound right to you?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Pineapplebobbingatgmail.com if I mispronounced that. Diethyl ether. If you take the first... Are we anagramming? Three letters.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And the last two letters. First four letters, last two letters. Switch them together. you get Dieter.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
As in Dieter Egan. Is there a possibility that Dieter Egan... Was a fever dream? Was never really real, but is really just the... I'm on ether, dark shadow version.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Yeah, please, please.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
So good old Dieter, I'm just going to call him Aether Egan, this idea of him as the shadow self of Cure Egan, who already seems shadowy in his own right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Guess what? I've never huffed a single thing in my life. I know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I don't think those sheets were ever cleaned.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
She's like laid down forever. I was just we saw the like the light of day pass. I was just like, oh, my God. Okay. The nine get mentioned a couple times and just worth reminding people. When she says Sissy lives by the nine, the first time I watched this not paying enough attention, I was like, is the nine a geographic location? No. The old gods and the new? What is it?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Living by the nine meaning in adherence with the nine. And just to remind people if they don't remember, the nine tenets are vision, verve, wit, cheer, humility, benevolence, nimbleness, probity.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
It's a no for me on huffing. If you're watching this on video, you may have noticed a Lumen-esque box behind me. Apple sent over... What is the memo that they sent me? It says, Senior Refiner Audi Gifting Memo. So that is what they sent over. It's like a little fake vending machine.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
You don't miss, and I love it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
No. Also, definitely arts and crafts involved in both in terms of the Four Tempers representation. Quick question for you, Rob. Please. Thank you for doing all that. You're the best. In the 19th century, when folks would gather together and huff ether together for its intoxicating effects, do you have any guesses as to what they called those gatherings?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
It's an ether frolic.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Frolic, of course, one of the four tempers. We've seen it tattooed on Drummond's hand.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Suck it, whoa. I mentioned Aaron Brockovich a couple times. It's obviously not the only way in which we can think about sort of like the ill effects of industry on townspeople.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And she has everyone's phone number memorized. It's great. So she does. Another, I will say, another film that I think would, helps me understand this kind of experience is there's this great movie called Medawan, which is, like, about unionizing labor around coal mines in early 20th century, I think, West Virginia. And this idea of, like,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
company towns, coal mining towns, the way that a company town... We've talked about this with Kier where Mark lives. The idea of a company town that they own the general store, they own your house, they own everything.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
So if you're watching this on video, which you can do on the Ringer TV YouTube channel or on Spotify, we're going to do like a, not a full unboxing, but a mini unboxing a little later in the episode. Hopefully keep it audio friendly. So if you're listening, you can also enjoy that. But that is the plan today as we talk about this episode. Rob...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
They own Zufu Chinese restaurant. They're setting you up on blind dates. That in certain areas of America... that they would not pay you in money, but pay you in script that you could only use at the company store. You know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
So for the love of coffee, go try them now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
So you can never like get out of the cycle of control that people like JP Morgan or Andrew Carnegie or these other like titans of American industry who are surely models for Keir Egan instituted in our great nation. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And the Midwest, you know, we've talked about all the like Michigan, Michigander sort of stuff, you know, like thinking a lot about Detroit as a city that has been in a different sense, but sort of hollowed out by industry where there was like the booming auto industry. And then as those factories shuttered, went overseas, whatever it is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
that town, that city is rebuilding, but became something of like a ghost city for a while. There was like a streak of incredible horror films that were filmed in like the outskirts of Detroit because it just looked like abandoned.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And that's no disrespect to any Detroiters who are listening because there's like vibrant and very cool parts of that city, but there's also ways in which that city was forever changed by an industry that fed it and then abandoned it. you know, without any... Like, not even fed it, like, milked it, essentially, for its labor. Totally. And then just sort of, like, left it high and dry. So, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Some Manchester by the Sea sort of energy here.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Let me say, never. Okay, um... brief foray to literature corner um we did get an email from a listener uh that i have what is it christine wrote in uh in response to me mentioning a swim in the pond in the rain by george saunders this exploration of these russian very special short stories she she was rereading it after we talked about it last week um Love that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Love when people read books because we talked about it. That's very exciting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I do love it. Anyway, she said she reread the first chapter, which is about Chekhov's In the Cart. And she was talking about how much that story, which is about a woman whose life is sort of like, who's mourning the loss of her mother and her life has like passed her by and she's been disappointed. It's just her on the road in a cart in many, in the ways that like,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Harmony has been in her white rabbit for like much of the season. Like she's like, there's so much of that text and how sparse and spare 37 minute runtime like that story is. And just to give that in relation to this, which I think is very rich. I did not study Russian literature in school. I studied British literature mostly. So I have to shout out our guy, Charles Dickens. You don't, though.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
How many emails did we get about our friend Miss Casey, aka Gemma, and which hand she prefers to write with?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Absolutely not. Charles Dickens was a child laborer. And so a lot of his books have this element of child labor in them. Something like David Copperfield, who works in like a bottling factory. Charles Dickens works in a boot blacking factory when he was a kid. And there's also this idea of upward mobility and going back home again.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
So in David Copperfield or Great Expectations, this idea of like you have elevated yourself in society. You have tried to separate yourself from your humble beginnings. And then what is it like for you to go home again and people to resent the errors that you've put on? or for you to be repulsed by your more humble origins and all that sort of stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
That was very much, I think, in the mix for me inside of this episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
There are two things that happened this episode among, you know, whatever else. There are two things that I'm just sort of like, really? One was her handing the schematics to Sissy standing right in front of her, who had just, just put another log on the wood-burning stove. And then also, with love and respect, Devin spilling every bean to Harmony on the phone.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Her calling Harmony, which a lot of people had an issue with last week, I was just sort of like, she's desperate, right? Her brother is potentially dying. She will do anything to try to get help. That I understood. Her telling Harmony everything on the phone. I have some questions.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
That's fair. And I think that's fair. Anything else you want to talk about before we do this sort of like unboxing slash tour through Cobell's greatest hits?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
We're mentioning that she was writing left-handed in the thank you note room, that writing left-handed with a fountain pen is horrible because of the smear factor, that writing that many notes is horrible, how gibberish her handwriting looked because maybe she had some brain damage.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I love that. On the music front, did you know what another name for a theremin is?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Etherphone. Let's do... What we're going to do is we've got six clips that we're going to play and just sort of like discuss what was going on underneath the scene that we were watching now that we know that Harmony Cobel invented severance. My favorite comment that I've seen on Reddit and elsewhere is like, a woman in STEM, Harmony Cobell.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
So celebrating innovator Harmony Cobell, we're going to go through those clips. And also we're going to unbox some of these weird little boxes that Apple has sent over. I have sent Rob sort of like a photo of the boxes so he gets to pick which we start with. Rob, which box would you like to start with?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Okay. For roasting, Fireside Delight is what the box says.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Then there is inside there is a jar and it is chocolate graham cracker. Marshmallow. Unstamped.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Unstamped. S'mores ingredients. I'm already disappointed. The chocolate is stamped with the word severance.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
There's no... I guess I'm going to touch the marshmallow on a podcast. I'm sorry. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
So that is box number one was some more fixings from Apple TV+.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
But also a bunch of people pointed out that early in the episode, we see her fill out an intake form with her right hand.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Thank you so much for that setup. Kai, will you play this from season one, episode one? You know my mother was an atheist.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
She used to say that there was good news and bad news about hell. The good news is... Hell, it's just the product of a morbid human imagination. The bad news is, whatever humans can imagine, they can usually create.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
That's deeply true. Good News About Hell was the name of the pilot. Season one, episode one, the name of the pilot episode. And we should note that she says, my mother was an atheist here. And then later when she's talking to Devin, she says, my mother was a Catholic. So, like, we don't know What if any of this is true?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
So not only all those other factors, but also they're forcing a righty to write as a lefty.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
But this idea of humans can invent their own hell, I thought that that was particularly salient when we're thinking about Harmony Cobell, the inventor of severance. Yes. She was living a hell as a child laborer who was huffing ether, and then she dreamt up a way to spread that far and wide out of the ether mills into the cubicles of America. Complicated. Certainly. Complicated legacy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Next box, Rob Mahoney.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
That's the one I thought you were going to start with. I was like, how is he not going to start with pineapple?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
What has a pineapple not stood for is my question. Yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
This box that says desk furnishing pineapple, it says congratulations on your new desk companion and air plants. And it's got care instructions for like an air plant, which I guess is further inside.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
um let's find out it's been in a box for like a couple weeks you can't kill an air plant so uh yeah that's that's the next uh oh okay wait okay it's an air plant inside of like a little plastic pineapple did you just kill the air no i just i just made it go for a little ride but now it's fine it's a little pineapple air plant thingy how's your green thumb joe Oh, pretty shriveled.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Okay, is this good audio?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Wonderful stuff. The date rapiest of all the Christmas corners.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I have killed unkillable succulents before. All right. Next clip comes from season one, episode five. And it is a conversation between Cobel and Milchick.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I saw Miss Casey down there. You're having her watch LER.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
The light of discovery shines truer upon a virgin meadow. I'm trying something new with Miss Casey.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Keep it between us. Do you have any thought, anything you want to, I'm the one who picked these clips, so like, you know, but anything strike you about that clip in particular?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I love that. It should be noted that in the closed captioning, there are quotes around that part. Oh, fascinating. Yeah, it's true. She's, I think, often quoting Egan scripture, essentially, in the first season. So, yeah, that whole light of discovery thing. Egan bullshit thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
But also just this idea that, like, her experimentation with Miss Casey and Mark, this idea of it as, like, her furthering her own scientific discovery outside of the bounds of Lumen. Like, they took her idea... And either stole, I mean, stole it definitely, but stole it in a way that they like, but you're in charge. So it's still your project. And we'll get to that in a second, obviously.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
But also no further experimentation from you required. And her inquiring scientific mind is like, no, I want to steal some scented candles and leave them in the wellness room and like all these other things that she does with Mark and Miss Casey sort of. running her own scientific experiments because she is a science-minded person.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I think we're in a consensual embrace era with Baby It's Cold Outside.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
The pendulum will swing any moment now. I wanted to start... We have a lot to talk about in this episode, even though it was like a fairly short runtime. Actually, before I already told you what we're going to do, broadly speaking, Rob, though, did you like this episode of Severance?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
It says salted dehydrate. What could be salted and dehydrated?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Cut beans. Cut beans. Salted cut beans.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
It says it's a fruit leather box.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And a cut beans box. Salted cut beans.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Yeah, so fruit leather, which is just fruit leather, which is fine. We understand that. Cut beans. Is this good audio? You guys should just switch over the video if you don't. Organic green beans, canola oil, tapioca starch, dextrin, sea salt.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Cut beans. Sounds great.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
The things we do for content. All right, let's play clip number three. This comes from season one, episode seven.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Whoever killed Mr. Grainer is probably the same person who reintegrated Peter Kilmer. The board reminds you that reintegration has not- Reintegration happened. And I have the data to prove it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And I would be happy to share my findings in person without intermediaries. Yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
She has the findings. She has the proof.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
She dug a chip out of a guy's brain. What more proof do you need? Her relationship with Grainer, too, we should point out that in season one, episode five, in that Light of Discovery episode, when they're talking about reintegration and Petey and Rigabi and stuff like that,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
He says to her, you were right, Harmony, we should celebrate. So this idea of Grainer as like her ally, Grainer who died and we thought was fairly villainous, and he is, but like was her ally in her endeavor to prove something about reintegration. Again, like more information about her own scientific discovery. She wants to know, is reintegration possible now?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
She's constantly pissed about Rigabi working on it outside of the bounds of Lumen, but she's still very curious. And the board is like, reintegration doesn't exist. She's like, it does, man. We have to know everything about severance, you know? So...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Harmony's freaking wearing around her neck like a total weirdo. She's villainous the way that Milchick is villainous. The way that like all of these people who are sort of abused by and still working for Lumen. And so like Helena as well, I would say all these people who are sort of like used and abused by the company. Yeah. But are furthering the company's aims nonetheless.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Or someone who's due for a face turn, which it kind of feels like is where we're heading with Harmony.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Um, we're wrapping up our season one clips, but one more box quickly before we do that, Rob.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I, my guess based on like weird random swag I've gotten in the past from various people is that this is like a portable speaker.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I did not say that into the microphone that this is a portable speaker. Um, they love a portable speaker. That is like one of their favorite things to send. Oh, no. It's AirPods.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Swag life is very weird. And I just need you to know that. But it is AirPods. Just a random AirPods box.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I feel really embarrassed that I thought all this is going to be nonsense stuff. I feel embarrassed that there was like an actual high value thing in there. Let's play the season one, episode eight clip of Harmony Cabal getting fired.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
It has been decided that you be suspended from your position effective immediately. You are fired. Look off, Natalie. Is the board even there? Yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
This is an incredible scene if you rewatch it. The look on Patricia Arquette's face when Natalie says, you're fired. And I believe she says, get fucked, Natalie, or whatever. Fuck off. Fuck off, Natalie. There you go. The incredulity in her face of like, I invented severance and you, Natalie, a functionary, are firing me. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And then she's like asking if the board's even involved because surely the board wouldn't fucking do this to her. Of course not. Then we hear from the speaker on her desk. And then the way it's shot, it's like her, she's sitting behind Natalie. She's out of focus.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
She veers around Natalie's shoulder so that she comes into focus and sees the speaker and then tries to collect herself and tries to talk to the board, but they're already gone. It is, again... She is a villain. I'm not trying to like apologize to her, but watching her get fired, knowing that she invented severance and they built this entire thing around her invention and then they're firing her.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Watching the leopards eat her face in real time is just like, it's, it's tough.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Some real Watson and Crick shit. All right. And before we get to our next clip, what's the second to last box you want me to open?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
This has got to be hopefully a very, very inexpensive, cheap stress ball and not another high priced item. One can only hope. Oh, it's a stress cow that says lumen on the side of it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Oh, it's a goat. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
That's so embarrassing. It's definitely a goat. It's got a little beard.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Yeah, it's a goat. Obviously, it's a goat. What else could it possibly fucking be? What else? A lumen-branded stress goat. Okay, let's play season two, episode two clip, please.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I did. And still you proved your loyalty tonight. Which is why we'd like to ask you back.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Do you think, so this is a short run time, it's like a 37-minute episode, and I would say even less of that is like... crucial, crucial plot information. Yeah. They're still withholding a bunch of information about Harmony. So, here's two alternatives, let's say. This was not my favorite episode of Severance, and that's okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
An apology is warranted.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I apologize. My father apologizes. The board apologizes. We've treated you poorly. I'm sorry.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
It cost me dearly thinking about like her and her mom.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
You know? We already clocked this as just like a bullshit, I don't mean it apology from Helena. Of course. But I guess the question, and this goes to the next clip that we'll listen to as well, we don't know if Helena knows that she invented severance. In fact, there's every indication that perhaps she doesn't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
But it is still the galling nature of having to listen to this from Helena of just like, And there's a longer scene inside of that clip, obviously, that you have no choice. You need me. You fear me. And Helena says, we fear no one. But just sort of this idea of like, she's like, I invented this shit. You can't get rid of me. You need me for this is sort of underpinning all of that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Last but not least, one last box, one last clip.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
This is definitely stickers. This is definitely a candle. This is definitely probably a gift card for Starbucks or something like that. And the beverage is available on request. So I would say a cure package.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Okay. This is my best idea I've ever had for a podcast.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
A question that I got, someone, like, Instagram DM'd me, was sort of, which is not how, the way I encourage you to reach me, but, like, you can... How do you encourage people to reach you?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I misidentified a goat as a cow. A goat, a very important part of Severance is a cow, so not great. Oh, it's a box for the AirPods that they put in this thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Okay, not that it matters. But I will not be keeping these AirPods. I will probably, I will give them to whichever person who's working here today wants them because I can't wear AirPods because they fall out of my ears. So if that helps anyone from not like thinking of me as, you know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And also I'm a very generous person, Rob. Let's play the last clip.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Marcus. is so close to completing cold harbor i intend to finish the work that i started which is why milchak must go he's not equipped for the task i must be floor manager i hear ego
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Hubris. Arrogance. Care teaches us they only cause pain.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Everything I accomplished, I earned. Through dedication and industry. Not because I was born into it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Press DHTV at Spotify.com.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I think you've overestimated your contributions and underestimated your blessings. We didn't have to ask you back.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
We already, I mean, we covered the gall, this nepo baby conversation before, obviously. That was all already there. But Hearing you overestimate your contribution is quite tough. Also, like, Harmony saying several times, I need to finish what I started. I need to finish what I started. And we're like, oh, what she started on the floor.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
PineappleBobbing at Gmail.com.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
No, what she started by coming up with severance in the first place.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
If you've got white lotus thoughts, monkeyshootout at gmail.com. We're still getting emails from like griefcardigan at gmail.com. I respect all of them.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And I don't know if you've ever heard this expression, but hell hath no fury like a woman scorned by her industry religion boss daddy. That old chestnut. That old chestnut. And that's where we find Harmony Cobell, scorned by the religion that she believed in, by the company that she gave her entire life to, and hopefully out for vengeance. Or...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
out to sell out, you know, Mark and Devin for a chance at her job back.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
It could go either way. It could go either way.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I don't think she knows. There's so much she doesn't know, you know? That conversation she had at Zufu with Mark where she's like, I know everything. I'm at the top of my company. It's just like more and more like apparent to me that she's kept completely in the dark about everything.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
But this is a listener I kind of know. So, like, I understood why. But anyway, she was like, how many very special episodes, like, sort of premise-breaking episodes is too many premise-breaking episodes inside of a short season of television? Because I would say between this, Last Week's Which We Loved, and The Orpo, those are, like, quite premise-breaking episodes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Here's what I hope. Milchick, Helena, Harmony all turn on the company at the end of the day.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
It's capitalism, Rob. It's obviously capitalism.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Pineapplebobbing at gmail.com. PressTV at Spotify.com if you have any questions, comments, or concerns about anything that we have outlined here today or... Feedback on my decision to litter this table in front of me with open boxes. We'll be back with more White Lotus coverage. Thanks so much. This has been so fun. We only have a couple more episodes left.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
You guys have been really crushing it with the Severance emails, the Severance theories. The Prestige TV feed is really... The joint is jumping and it's been really fun. We will be probably doing... Our plan is to do sort of like a live...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
severance theory pod and I'll give you a little bit more information about that the closer we get to it but I just wanted to put that on everyone's radar that Rob and I are going to do sort of like a before the finale live speculation fun thing and that's it we'll see you soon bye
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
So maybe the idea of severance in season two is like, you know, and we also had the all-inny episode and the all-outy episode in the first two episodes of the season. So maybe the premise of season two was like, there is no standard operating procedure for an episode of Severance this season.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Not my favorite episode. Really missing Burt and Irving. Kai?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Two options. One is, what if we took the meatiest parts of this episode and seeded it into the last few episodes? We're checking in with Harmony as she... you know, hooks up with Hamilton, her old chum, and all these other things that she encounters. Or alternatively, we have an even denser Harmony Cobel episode that is less withholding about, like, what if we get just like a full flashback?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
What is the life of, what was the life of Harmony Cobel sort of as she went through you know, child laborer to inventor of severance. Like, what was that complete arc like versus sort of the... I would say, coyer approach that we got inside of this episode. So do you have a preference between those two? Or are you like, hey, it's not my job to tell someone how to run their TV series?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And to be very clear, I agree with everything you said. And to be very clear, I love Patricia Arquette.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
She's so good. And I'm very fascinated by Harmony Cobell. So it's not like I want less Harmony. I think we're just having questions about the when and the where and the why of it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I agree. On the other hand, I will say, and we're going to go back through some previous Harmony scenes and sort of like re-listen to some clips now knowing what we know about Harmony's role. And that's interesting to me because I did have a lot of lingering questions about what was her motivation for XYZ in season one. And this helps with that a lot.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And so, yes, I did not really... I just assumed it was Negan. I mean, that's... I just assumed it was a Negan. And the fact that it wasn't a Negan and it was this woman who gets treated rather shoddily given all of that information is... opens the aperture on a character in a way that I really, really like. Let's talk about some of the guest stars in this episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
So, well, I want to start with Patty Arquette, Patricia Arquette, because reading the Reddit boards, it just reminds me that not everyone knows what a legend Patricia Arquette is. Where are these people coming from?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
They're younger than we are. So... Of course, she won an Oscar for Boyhood, and I would really recommend you check out that incredible project, obviously. Obviously, she's worked with Ben Stiller on Escape from Dannemora and an earlier film they did together. True Romance is sort of like my peak Patricia Arquette. What do you want to say about Patty, Rob?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Yeah. And you know, from the Arquette acting family, uh, raised as like, you know, uh, a weird little hippie, uh, is a very strange and wonderful person and a really strange and wonderful performer. Um, As Alabama in True Romance, that is, like, one of the most, like, sexually dynamic, alluring, like, characters you've ever seen in your life.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And you were like, yes, I will throw my entire boring life away for this person. Like, that's the premise of that movie. And so there was the shot after she is... I hate that you used the word musty, but it's appropriate. After the musty situation... And we're going to talk about James LeGrow in a second.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
But when Hamilton comes up into the bedroom and they have the moment on the bed, there's the huffing. And then there's also a smooch that, according to the official podcast, was unscripted. But it was funny. Like, right before the smooch happened, there was just this shot. You know, she's got this, like, very severe hair. The hair was Patricia Arquette's idea. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
You know, she's older than she was when she played Alabama in True Romance, but there's just something so alluring about her. Her eyes are just like this really compelling blue that I was just like, I would smooch Harmony Cobell. There's just something like bewitching about her that I find. I don't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
And I don't know if you need that larger Arquette filmography context for that or if that works in isolation inside of this. But one of the things that I saw on the Reddit boards that blew my mind, and I think this speaks to the wig work on this show, is someone misidentified this character we meet, Sissy, as her sister, which I understand because some people say Sissy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Jane Alexander, who plays Sissy, that's her aunt. And she's of a completely different generation. So I'm like, how old do you think Patricia Arquette is, man? Or how youthful do you think Jane Alexander is?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
I mean, I was definitely wondering if Hamilton and Harmony were siblings and then they smooched.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Jane Alexander, legend of stage and screen, has won a pile of awards, is an absolute icon, playing sissy here. According to the official podcast, asked to have her hair cut to look like Harmony so that they could have matching hair. Amazing. Was in a film that has been sort of like lost to time, but was really definitely a thing at the time, which is Cider House Rules.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
We're here today to talk to you about severance. How excited are you to talk about severance, Rob?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
A Miramax joint, which won Michael Caine an Oscar, among other things. That is the movie where I first learned about huffing ether as a drug abuse situation. Look at that. Michael Caine plays a doctor. And your life was never the same. Enjoys huffing ether. And Jane Alexander plays a nurse in that movie. So, fun little...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
Jerry Stahl, who wrote Permanent Midnight, who Ben Stiller played in the film Permanent Midnight, is one of the guys, the guy in the diner. And last but not least, James LeGrow, who to me is the runaway star of this episode. I'm a huge James LeGrow fan. The original cinematic, Raylan Givens, also played Wade Messer on Justified.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
has been in a ton of things, but something that they said in the official podcast about casting him in this role is when you have not much time to establish dynamics between characters, there's a ton of history, unspoken history between these two, you cast a James LeGrow who can just, going back to the 90s, drugstore cowboy, whatever, can just...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 8: Cobel’s Chilly Origins
give you, like, a life lived on a face kind of guy. Do you know what I mean? So, anything you want to say about these guest stars or our guy, Wade Messer from Justified, specifically?