Jan Van Maren
Appearances
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
We're going to train with a few instructors and we give them advice. Of course, they don't have to take it with them, but Well, that's of course free of choice.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And we have one selection day. So at that day, they have to bring four dogs. They have to work four short programs, four long programs.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So they can have two of their own and two different dogs. Why to have to own dogs? Because the pressure is high on that kind of days and because it's a sort of competition between the helpers.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, it's a little bit of competition for the helpers who are getting the nicest trials. So the best helpers are getting the Dutch championships. So that's a motivation to work hard for something, at least if you want to. Right. So this year we probably we didn't choose the most technical ones, the most safe ones. Well, they are all safe because they're all good, but we choose for fight. So.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, pressure starts, of course, only with one thing is how is the helper going on the field? With what kind of mentality is he stepping on the field? Is he stepping on the field because 5000 people are filming? Oh, I may not make mistakes. It must look good because then we get some more trials. Or is he stepping on the field for now? Let's find out. And Well, I prefer the last thing.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So if they... Well, what's the second? I think it starts with that.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes, with the attitude. Because if you don't have the attitude, you cannot give pressure.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, I think it matters. How faster you go, the less time there is to test the dog.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And how faster you are, there's always something more in motion than a dog can understand at that moment. So if you make the re-attack, if you make the drive and you're going really fast, it ends also really fast. Yeah. The protection is already a fast game. So, take the dog on the ground, bow over the dog, the stick presence.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, and another typical thing is you already mentioned a little bit helpers are picking the dog up. Exactly how I said, picking the dogs up instead of making a real attack. with no moving sleeve and stick in front of the sleeve. Yeah.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So I put the suit on, did it a couple of times, went back to football. And I think it took a half year when I came back to the club and never stopped doing helper work.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah. And you also mentioned the place where the dog wants to be. So if you pick up a dog and you're going to start running and having the sleeve a little bit high, the dog is not going, cannot go anywhere. Yes.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So what we try to teach the helpers in the Netherlands is work low with the dog on the ground, four paws on the ground, straight back and do everything with your legs and with your shoulders. And well, try to make it as dark as possible for the dog.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So for the long bite, the long bite is quite an exercise. Not really complex, but a lot of things happens in a very short amount of time. We have to deal with different things. So the mentality of the helper, is he ready? But what exercises can we teach to make it better? In the Netherlands, we teach helpers to make rotations. That is very good for the eye-hand coordination.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, the spinning, yeah. But not like a helicopter, but stepping away, make an explosion of power. with the dog on the ground and turn it to the other way and do that a couple of times. It helps a lot with eye-hand coordination, with your footwork. What helps in that kind of exercises, because a lot of things are happening, a lot of techniques are in one time.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So that was, wow, that's a long time ago when I was 16, like 18 years ago. So being helper now for 18 years.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And also very important with teaching a helper the long bite is not stepping back.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, there's a reason for it. If you step back with catching dogs, for most dogs it's okay because you're going backwards, sleeveless, a little bit in motion, but it's prey drive. Sure, sure, yes. Every movement backwards is prey drive, is giving the dog more energy, more motivation to get the sleeve. In terms of doing competition work, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So if we prepare helpers to do competition, nothing may go backwards. Everything must be offensive. You are the leader. You are going to dictate the fight. So stepping backwards is not good.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, so the benefits of stepping into the dog. So as I put your right foot in front, as it gives you the opportunity to move your hips away. So you can be a small person with the sleeve high, with the stock in front, because the whole posture will make it possible to catch the dog on a good way.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And of course, there are always some moments that it could be more supple and stuff, but it's contact sport.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, and sometimes it happens and sometimes maybe you're a little bit too late or the dog is going inside or outside. Well, that's still the moment. And the many hours you do helper work, the better you can recognize that kind of behavior.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, teaching young dogs, young dogs must first have the confidence to take the sleeve, because if you look into the dog, for a dog, it needs to be a prey exercise.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
because if you if you don't make it a prey exercise they are going everywhere right and that that makes it hard to to teach a proper grip and and stuff so we are using um i am using uh with the young dogs yeah a lot of times half sleeves um But we try to change it as soon as possible to a normal sleep. Because you need to prepare. And it takes time. It takes repetitions.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
There are nice competitions and big competitions. So the biggest competitions I get was, of course, the World Championships in the Netherlands. Which year was that? 2017, right?
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
it does matter because if you have dogs that are very much in prey drive you have dogs that are easily triggered into frustration and stuff and my best experiences are dogs with a good prey drive but also a little bit easy to get in into frustration because if a dog is getting into frustration
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
he really wants to do something what benefits his own so and if a dog is a little bit in frustration and having a good prey drive they are one one they want to reach something so well For me, that's the best combination in type of dog for teaching the long bites.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
For dogs that are really in aggression and having difficulties to switch from aggression to prey drive or something like that, in first case, we focus on just catching something. So outside the body, because dogs that are in aggression it's a very thin line between confidence how much they can handle right yes so if you're having dogs in aggression and you let them
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
touch your body every time they are going to search for your body which make it in in later stadium different difficult to finish the exercise dedication right if they're not good jumpers being because they're aggressive or because they're unsure would you
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, there are some techniques to make a dog stronger in that point. If we go a little bit back in the time, we put the dog on a pole, we hit them and running back and send the dog straight after you. While it's hot, yeah. Yeah, so they experience... They experience some pressure, they experience a little bit of pain. Well, not pain, but getting physically touched.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes, and then the helper is running away, so the dog wins there the fight.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes, and get released and just getting something. And, well, it... It can bring good results, but they are still dogs, so not every time you can have the same result.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, for me, it really doesn't matter how far it is because after 10 meters, the dog is on speed. So the most handlers are very careful with their dogs, but for a dog, it doesn't really matter if it's like 10 meters or 50 meters. Maybe for the picture for the dog, it's different.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, you're trying to find the edges of what is still in the rules and what's not. Sometimes you're crossing a little bit over, but yeah, It's our world championship, so dogs need to be tested.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
sometimes with teaching young dogs you're making short bites especially when you need to have a lot of repetitions so dogs are having problems to switch from prey drive to aggression the other way so you make a dog out getting a few meters away and let the dog just come but that's to build the prey drive there
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, and in dog sport, everything is about conditioning. Conditioning behavior, conditioning the exercises. So that's also for that kind of part in the program, of course. You cannot expect the same results if you never train it. Or not enough. In some ways, we make it more difficult for ourselves to change the picture for the dog than it needs to be.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, with young dogs, we're using it always to start. Because you need to evaluate the behaviors that the dog is showing. And if a handler is having the leash and it gets the leash at the wrong time.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, and the biggest problem is you don't know exactly what the dog should have reacted. Right. Because you're doing something to get a result. You're not doing things to look back and say, oh, he did that. No, you're doing things because you know a dog's going to give that reaction what you can reward to improve the behavior. Well, that's the way I think we should think.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
you do some part of the education for the helpers in in netherlands right yeah now since since one and a half years uh i think uh first uh together with vincent the helper course um invited to do another one later this year so Well, looking forward to it. And also the judging commission now since, well, the last examination.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, I think every dog is different. Every dog reacts different. Like I would tell you, like my thinking is when... So if a dog... Some dogs need to be encouraged to... To wake it up, right? But I don't see a lot of benefits for a dog that... as doing it genetically easier. I like what you're saying. There are more things than chasing someone away in our program.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Dogs are evaluated on grips and stuff. And you can use that kind of methods, but without knowledge how dogs learn, how dogs react, well, maybe you're shaping a behavior that that you eventually not want.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Because if dogs chasing a helper continuously away and getting high in aggression and you don't have the knowledge how to teach a proper grip, then you're going to have a big problem with the grips and probably the outs and the control with the handler and et cetera, et cetera.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And yeah, that's also a problem in the sport that we are doing. In these times, people want to look good. instead of enjoying to teach dog things, to experience different faces and trying new things. Well, it's sport that we're practicing, so it's not all written in a book how to get every type of dog, that kind of result.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
You have to process it by yourself and helpers are getting better with trying things and be sharp on what the results are and Well, just experiencing the dog sport, how it should be with different phases, different drives, the different motions, the different exercises.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
The more exercises you're doing, the more insight you get from a dog and the more you can learn from a dog and the better you will be as helper. Right. Also at trials.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
We start quite early. We start quite early. What is obedience exactly? Maybe the first couple of times, if a puppy is very little, we're going to let it chase the jute and stuff. And let's see if he gets a bite or no bite. Because every dog is different. When it's in the dog, we take always a moment of rest. So they teach all other kinds of things. And after like seven, eight months, when a dog...
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
When we think a dog can make a relationship between prey drive and aggression and can handle that kind of behavior, then we're going to start doing protection again. And yeah, the dog needs to sit and needs to watch.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah. Yeah. And you can make a break in between exercises. So it's not continuously bite, bite, bite, bite, but also a few moments of rest for a dog so that the dog can relativate. Yeah.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
I have two opinions. One as someone who really enjoys if someone gets a lot of success and looks good, so points wise. As a helper it's nice to do it by yourself. Yeah, that's why I'm a helper and I love the sport. Yeah. But, well... As a non-helper,
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Because you get a lot of repetitions... As earlier mentioned, it's all about conditioning. Conditioning behavior, conditioning behavior, conditioning behavior. And in the end, for a dog, it's easier to recognize the situation.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, the interest is not very high. There are new people coming and staying. And surprisingly, because of the membership is getting down, the number of helpers are, well, not going that bad. Okay, okay. So that's cool.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And it makes you... you're rewarding faster and more clear for a dog, because the dog knows the exercise, the dog knows how to react. I've seen that before, I know what to do with it. Yes, it knows the picture, so you can make steps.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, the bite exercises, if handlers doing it by their own, they want to make it look good. So they don't want to let the dog make mistakes. What I understand, of course, because they want to get result, but well,
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
um a helper that is focused on getting the best out of the dog raising the bar always and making the dog hey it's not so easy yes so it's not bad if if dog slips a half off in a training because of you making a motion or something else because well um the second time the dog is not going to let him surprise the second time. So then the whole exercise is improving again instead of not improving.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
My opinion about barking is a dog is going to bark because it gets frustrated most of the times. So if it's getting frustrated because of not getting the sleeve or getting frustrated because of not getting the ball, I think a good train you can have almost a copy of the behavior. Mm-hmm.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Do you think sometimes some dogs, like I... I've seen really good results with dogs that were... Taught by the owner. Yeah. With very intense guarding and stuff without seeing a difference between, well, dogs that are taught by helpers.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And I, um, To teach dog, it's quite something, of course. Being a helper, it's already quite difficult because all of the movements, all of the techniques you need to know, then doing it in different situations, different circumstances. And, well, it would be perfect if a helper knows how a dog learns and how to understand behaviors of a dog.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So what we need in sport is that we have helpers that also understand how dogs behave. learning that the dog learns with associations, combined signals, and baconed with commands. Right. I think it's difficult to get a result if you don't understand it. So sometimes maybe it's even better if a handler is teaching some exercises, but the actual bite work, well, the best thing would be by helpers.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
I think the re-attack. The re-attack. The re-attack.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, as earlier mentioned, if a dog really wants to get something, you can use a little bit of frustration. So make a dog wanting to have it really, really, really bad.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
If a dog really wants to have the sleeve and you get a little bit in frustration having the leash on and let him miss one time or two times in combination with a lot of movement, so the dog is getting very excited, then the dog is going to... to recognize the picture of getting in frustration and a possibility of should I get it or shouldn't I get it?
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And that balance, I think it's important to get a very confident re-attack because if a dog does not really know if he gets it, but he really wants to have it, he's going to give a lot of energy for getting it.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, it's good if you can recognize it. That makes you a good helper or a helper that needs some extra education or something. But that should be one of the things a helper must see for making the moment of doing the re-attack.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, so that's why we need to teach our trial helpers much better. Just to select that behavior and to give a hard re-attack with a lot of emotion, with everything a helper has in his body. Just to make it happen that it's visual, that... Well, the dog doesn't have it, in fact. Right. And we forget to teach helpers that kind of things.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, and understanding how a dog is as a dog. Yeah, I think so. There's also a little trap in it because the weaker dogs,
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
you cannot have uh continuously pressure on on a dog that cannot handle it right so sometimes you have you have to help it through uh some faces and well the trap is to not stay in that kind of uh training yes so they can they have to grow they have to grow yeah if they are not growing well then but overall what i
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, I feel bad because this ticket is necessary in my eyes to give the final touch to the judge how a dog is going to react. I really don't understand why they took it off because... Right, they didn't have to.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
No, it makes you a monkey that can do a routine. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, really. Yeah. I really love dog sport. I really love to work with dogs, to do helper work. Yeah. If you're not working with weaker dogs, you cannot recognize some behavior things. Because there is always a moment that you can recognize, maybe the dog is not in his best form now. And you cannot anticipate on it.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And dog sport is also about anticipation to be ahead of the dog. What's already quite difficult.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
I really like to improve grips and stuff, to teach it, to make the rotations, to make it very dynamic. That gives me a lot of energy, that gives me a lot of joy. And it's also very rewarding because if you're working on it, it almost have always a result. When you see the result, right? Yeah, there's almost always, because there's a lot of things going on.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So dogs are feeling better if they're hanging on.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, I think really starting with part of the program and really teaching is about a month of eight, nine months. Because in the period before that, and you're working on drives, you don't really know how a dog is examining his behavior. Right. Being aware of what he's doing.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So there are a lot of years, there are rules to give stick hits. So it's investigated if it harm a dog or not.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Wow. Yeah, what is a good age? Yeah.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
That's an important one. Some desire, right? Something. Because if a dog doesn't want to hunt something, it's getting a little bit more difficult to get it in the correct frustration. And not the frustration for I want to go away, but the frustration of I really want to have something. So...
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So in my opinion, there is no reason to take away this, that they took away the stick hits. But yeah...
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
that's the first thing well what what i check with uh if dogs coming on the field and what i really want to recognize or want to see because that's one of the most important things what about um like there's sometimes dogs that
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Sometimes you need to give the dog some time as well. Right. With some dogs you need to build confidence in the start. Well, maybe it's looking some time away. We had it today as well. There was a young dog that never did something and it's looking away and it's going to her handler and stuff. But in the end, because you're focusing on the good things and ignoring all that other kind of thing.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So the dog is growing over it quite fast. And then you see the second session that the dog has way more drive. And starts to believe more in itself, right? Yeah. And then it's beneficial to get something.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And those dogs are actually quite nice to work with. Right.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And it's like. Yes. And as helper, you need to be sharp with that kind of dogs because you need to see everything what's going on, what's happening, how's the dog reacting and stuff. It makes you a really good helper, I think.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
two, three times a week. Two, three times a week. Just to get all the repetitions that you eventually need to... Yeah, to get to a certain stage in it, right? Yes, to get to a certain stage and to manage, to really manage the behavior. Because to manage a behavior, you need to have many repetitions in certain situations.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, if a dog is running out a little bit, then I think then it's not challenging enough. So a dog will always need to be challenged. And if you're staying like a half year with one exercise, then it's never going to improve because there are no... Yes, it's like playing chess, just moving one piece, right?
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So sometimes, even if you add up to that, the dog cannot go further, but sometimes you need to make the step to make all other things better again. And the focus is not going to be on that point anymore.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
No, no, I think so as well. But my, my preference is, uh, because, uh, uh, uh, I grew up with dog sport at the German shepherd club with German shepherds. Um, My preference is going to that because as helper you're using other techniques a little bit if you're used to work German Shepherds or Malinois. So tell me more about this. This is interesting.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, for example, the athleticism from a Malinois for the long bite. So as helper you're going to the dog and With almost every helper, if you watch trials, the sleeve is a little bit to the side of the body.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes, or maybe it's the problem that the sleeve is on the side, that they are walking, so not one stable position, because... Even in the long bite, if you're coming across the corner and you give the signal that you're there and you're moving the sleeve, it's still prey drive again. Right. So that's another discussion. But if you compare the athleticism of a Malinois that can turn in like...
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
a half meter in front of you to the other side yeah cut you off yeah yeah yeah so the footwork is different so with the german shepherd you can recognize quite early uh which uh which side he which side he is going to choose so you have a little bit more time to to prepare yourself and and stuff and and in the end it's all uh in this but with the with the malinois
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
I make my steps always much shorter so I can always move a little quicker and be ready. Just be more prepared that the dog can choose the other way.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, you know, the good thing about a stick hit was you can do it on different times. So you make the re-attack, you're going into the pressure phase, and if a dog gives a reaction, it may be not after four steps or five steps, but maybe after two steps. It's still legal to give a stick hit at that moment, and that are the moments where a judge can... see something's going on here. Right.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
I'm working in the beginning way more passive than with the German Shepherd, just trying to give them confidence, confidence, confidence.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes, you need to teach the grips and stuff. You need to teach the confidence. So also with the Mali, sometimes it's difficult to recognize, but a lot of Malinois are coming really, really fast. But, well, maybe 70% is not secure of their own. So they are getting on speed and they are going to make that bite, yeah, maybe with different intentions. The intention is different.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And, well, my opinion is at the most, well, I'm happy not so many accidents happen, but... If it happens, it's most of the times that kind of dogs that are limping afterwards.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, I don't think that there's a lot of differences in we need to manage that that kind of things so if a dog is giving too much energy in the beginning maybe you should make the exercises longer so so the dog is going um to get used to how to to pace yes um yeah
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
endurance between the malinois and german shepherd german shepherds can also run out of gas quite early quite fast if they are not in shape i think they are more that's true that's actually true a lot of times um
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, they have to give the energy. Right. And I think Malinois is genetically... They should handle it a little bit easier. Physically, but mentally they burn. Yeah, that's why we start quite easy with teaching the bite work.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, it helps. It helps if you're fit and if you can make the dynamic moves and can have the athleticism to let the dog miss and stuff. Because that's also a little bit about speed and timing and... But on the other hand, I've also seen very good results with people who weren't that fit and kind of things. And I'm also not really fit.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
No, the dog has to move you. Well, that would be an optimal picture, that the dog is going to move you, is trying to make the program which you have chosen.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, sure. Yeah. If... You always must have in mind the end result that you want to get. The end result is also not a helper that is jumping around everything. That's just doing the program with certain exercises. Yeah. Jumping around to get the attention of the dog is not giving you an excellent guarding. An excellent guarding is a dog that wants to move you away from him.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes, I have. It depends if the dog is getting ready for competitions or not. So if we're preparing a dog for a competition season, my preference is to put the dog two months in front in program. and make little changes in the program just to keep the dog sharp. Interesting, yeah.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Because if you're not doing it, the dog is always trying to find his own benefit in a certain exercise after a lot of repetitions. A dog is going to find a way out of something. And well, if you haven't worked through that kind of things... it may pop up at the trial, what you don't want.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
If the trial season is over, then you can, well, in between you can also do training, different things, but the dog, well, we have the best results for dogs that are prepared and knowing what they have to do, but need to wait. till the command comes.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And... Well, and dogs that are not in season, yeah. If dogs are not in season, it means that they are not ready for a season. So then you're working on behaviors that need to improve to get there. Right, right.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, you need to manage the behavior. So... If teach the dog correctly, you must see what is showing in three trainings. So you need to have to work to that point because then a dog is showing some different behavior than you want. And then you can act on it. You kind of want to know if you have it or not. It needs to happen.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, yeah. I have no problems with jet lag and stuff.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
It needs to happen because if you're avoiding that point... You're going for surprise, right?
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah. In training, you need those mistakes. to make the end result better. So, yeah, of course, all the things you need to manage that behavior needs on the dog.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, I'm curious about the different ways to put extra pressure then.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
In my opinion, the dog needs to be in center in front of the helper.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Just no question about it. There is no reason, right? No, no. For me, no. And... Well, I'm not going to change my re-attack for a dog that is teached to bark here. So if the dog's barking at the point that, well... It's not ready to go.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, not so much when already in the fight. And while the stick hits, given properly, it brings you in a position as helper with the dog on the ground. It gives you the opportunity to give the dog a stick hit for having the pressure so the dog is under you. It's good. You're creating a dark hole. And now with it, without the stick hits, it's gone. The helpers are getting up.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Right. And... The situation must be safe as well. So if a dog is barking here and it's nearly touching the helper, well, I think it's a reasonable call for the judge to say something from that.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
I don't know if I'm answering correctly what you want, but I like to see that the helpers are getting meaner. So it's also so correct and also strict.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
um everybody's happy about it but i think that's the biggest problem we have not having the challenge of yeah like hey i'm against you we need to be mean uh if a dog was hesitating on the re-attack why not pulling the sleeve a little bit aside and stepping in from okay now what you have yeah
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
still within I miss that kind of things helpers that have that attitude already before the first dog even started and and yeah If you see the attack out of back transport, that is not even attack anymore out of back transport. The helpers are turning around and stepping backwards and waiting for the dog to come. Originally, it's the exercise to turn around and hit the handler. Very true.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And we need to chase that kind of things in helpers again. Turn around and run into the dog and stick in front and have to sleeve against your body because the dog is not going to have that speed as on the long bite.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
You need to go to the handler. You need to hit the handler. You need to have that attitude from, okay, I'm going to hit the handler to the ground. That's a good one. And that's the only intention you need to have there. And you can only hit the handler for his mouth if you have your hand in front of you, the sleeve in the correct position, and it's just go.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, that's a good one. It's been like how many years for five steps? Right.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, some dogs are getting stronger also from it. Yeah. Because it's also a form of support.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, but if you look at trials and thinking about dogs getting injured, well, For a helper it's not his problem at that point.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
the helper needs to be there on the field to make a fight to be there as gladiator and of course he needs to be capable of it but that's why we need to evaluate the helpers from time to time and set the bar very high for high competition helpers so that you know you have good helpers so that the chance of getting injured dogs is as less as possible, but there needs to be a fight.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
There just needs to be a fight. And, well, as earlier mentioned, we need to get mean again. Yeah. We need to search the dog. We need to step into the dog. And, well, who gives a shit if you give the stick pressure and you touch the dog by... by accident?
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, yeah. When we teach helpers for a long bite, we also always say, okay, you stand on both feet next to each other, put the sleeve in front of you with some air in between the sleeve and the body and just catch it. And, well, that's a good thing, but... The step after that part is put your wrong foot in front of you and just step with your other foot in and create the same thing.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And stepping back in the catching, it gives also too much space for the helper to turn it out. Because if you step into the dog and the dog is coming into the sleeve, you have much more momentum to get the dog to the ground again. So you're stronger. the nature is going to be with you.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So then you can put the dog on the ground and give pressure way earlier than stepping backwards and need to make a whole circle to manage it for having the dog on the ground.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, if you recognize that kind of things and if you're stable enough in the head, you should... Getting less fast to the dog.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, so not speed up. Because if you're going to speed up as helper, then... Well, then you're hiding that kind of things. And that's very valuable for a judge to see. So take the speed back and push more. More threat in front of the dog. So you expose it. Yes, and in the most circumstances, you don't even have to turn it out.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Because if the dog doesn't have any speed, why should you make a turn? Yeah, very good point. So the dog is coming on the sleeve. We want to chase that dog away because that dog is not good enough at that moment. So we take it on the body.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
There's no need. And the same thing with the attack out of back transport. I almost see no helper anymore.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
that that is running into the dog with a lot of pressure and a lot of them making a full 360 turn for no reason yes no reason no it's it's running in dog is on the sleeve directly going in the pressure phase that's how a proper attack out of that transport because if you if you for no reason have to do this it's prey drive then
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
But, well, it's easy to talk, of course, from the sideline now.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
I don't think that. By time to time, I like to see if helpers are sometimes getting a little bit too far in things. Of course, The helper must be able to do things. Right. That's the beginning of everything. You need to be able of doing your technical things before making pressure. Because if you have a lot of technique and no pressure, that's no fight.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
But if you have a lot of pressure and no technique, it's chaos.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
the mentality of the helper. How hard does he want to work for it? If the technique is there, of course, the moment of presenting the sleeve, the movement of the sleeve, the position of the wedge. And that kind of that is very, very important.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
You start with giving them a lot of time, of course, and the further you go, you make the exercises more difficult, more difficult, giving them less time to to present the sleeve. But because you're doing it with a lot of repetitions, they are going They are going to make sure that it's going to be okay. So they are checking it and kind of things.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes, they need to have. Because still, it's contact sport. So things can go wrong also very easy. So they must build the confidence that they can handle it.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
I really like the short part. Yeah. Because it's very physical. You have more interaction. Yeah. And it's more physical. It's always going to hurt somewhere. And yeah. Yeah, I really like the short part. But with the long bite, I really like the concentration before it all happening.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
No, I didn't travel somewhere. No, I've been home now for a half year because our little girl was born.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And the catching, yeah, it's nice to catch correctly and stuff, but the realization all in front of that, so coming out of the blind, make the turn, and that whole time before the dog arrives, that's also very... The presence, I'm right here. Yeah. Come. That's almost as beautiful as the catching itself.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes. At the end. Yes. To have the preparation and, well... Sometimes...
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, if a helper doesn't like it, it's a helper's problem. Because it's the most beautiful thing there is to feel the impact of working with animals.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
You know? Yeah. Still a little bit the same thing. It doesn't really matter where they hit.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
There will be an impact. There will be an impact and you need to be prepared for it. You need to like it. For what other reason are you a helper? Right, right.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
That is something else, of course. You need to have the technique of... because an escape is not just running away. A proper escape is sleeve in position for every dog the same on a fair spot. Every dog must have the opportunity to give an excellent grip. Everything else is up to how it goes. But if it's on a trial, you have to say, you have also something to say about it at the trial.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, sometimes you try to introduce it with the helpers because getting their form back, for realizing that you still need to bring a fight, not going, picking up, run to the other side and stop. That's not the point of doing protection work. Right. Protection work, it's going to be a gladiator with a dog. Well, one is going off the field.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Because the most judges are going with the helpers on the field. They're making the mark of the dog and the mark of the helper. Where are you going to run away?
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah. But for the escape, you have still everything in your own hands most of the times because they can draw a line. But, uh, If you take one or two degrees on the left of it or on the right, depends where the thing is.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And if you are too sensitive for that kind of judges, well, then you have to man up a little bit and take some other attitude. Yeah. It's about, yeah. The... The program may be hard, but it must be fair as well.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes, but yeah. That's exactly what I think. So if a dog is in the guarding phase and in front of every dog, you make the decision together with the judge. After five seconds, I did the re-attack or seven seconds, just whatever. But after three seconds, you see the dog is hesitating or showing some bad behavior. That is the moment to make the re-attack. And if your hands are Tight, yeah.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
It takes away more opportunities to show things.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
That's the whole difference. If a dog is just sitting on the ground with his ears half back, then it's not active. Then it's forced to guard in silence. Well, if a dog is with the ears up and with a lot of, well, intensity. Yeah, for sure. Nothing. For me, for me, that's okay. I think the silent.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
It's important for judges that they understand that kind of things. That's why it's important that the judges also are still active with dogs. Yeah. I'm happy in the Netherlands that the most judges that are judging are also handling dogs. I can really appreciate that in a judge. If they are competing high level or not, well, that...
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
and and it's still contact sport so giving a fight brings giving a fight brings all different kind of situations um even i believe that even to keep the interest in a igp dog to do it
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
They're still in the game. They're still working with them and they experience how difficult it is to get somewhere.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
You can teach a dog everything, of course, but yeah, the way toward an end result.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
so you make the dog look better of course for the competition in in how what would be your preference my preference is active guarding active guarding my preference is active guarding and uh we we also to be honest we also don't have the dogs to put in uh to put a silent guarding they all bark quite easy
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, it's all practicing, practicing, practicing, doing it a lot of times. As I said, at our club, we don't actually have now the dogs to put in silent guarding. Wow. But we also almost never experienced bad grips in the re-attacks.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, there are different breeds, like Dutch Shepherds we have, Rottweilers, of course. Any Airedales, Schnauzers? No, not really, or maybe on places, I don't know. It's not common. No. Dobermans? No, Dobermans, yes, quite a few. How are they? Well, I think...
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, it's so bad because, well, you don't see very often very good Dobermans.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes, and sometimes it can be so nice to have a good Doberman on the sleeve, but maybe it's just so nice because it's very rare. Right. And, well...
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
It would be nice if you have an all-breed championship with also some Dobermans that can hit the podium or something like that. Right. That's the cool thing. At the moment, it's just not possible.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
flying like crazy like this like what is it about them i mean there is no other dog that does that i i think it's also uh i think it's going to combine with genetics and uh and also a little bit of um of the hectic that they have in them just uh impatient like i gotta go and
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, I like to see it, by the way. Right. Well, why? I don't know.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes, but then it's genetically.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
No, it's a practice sport, so it's not really important from how far they fly, it's about the effectiveness of the exercise.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, that's a way of teaching, of course, as well.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
No, right? Not really, no, not really. We have, of course, I don't know how many KNPV clubs.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
You can find them everywhere. I like the beauty of the details from IGP. It never attracted me to go to KNPV. to work their dogs.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
It doesn't have my focus to know all that kind of thing. So I don't know how many or how popular it is. I also even don't know. But... Well, if I talk with some people around me, some are really like the Mario ring. Right, right.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, it's a different world, I think.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
If you compare it with what we are doing, it's completely different. Maybe more in the nature of the dog, because we are trying to manipulate a lot of things.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, it brings something, of course. So it brings extra energy in the fight.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah. And I think it's important. Yeah, for sure. I think it's important. For example, at the Saturdays, I'm the whole day at the club. In the morning, we're going to track. At noon, we're going to start. Close before noon, we're going to start obedience training. And after the obedience, we were going to do protection work.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Most of the time, we were finished at four o'clock in the afternoon or 4.30 or whatever.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
And every Friday I'm looking forward to the Saturday for a full day of dog sport. Well, I can get a little bit frustrated if, for example, on an evening or something, if people showing up at 8.30 doing quickly bite work and leaving. Because, well, I think it's part of the sport.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
It took a little while, a little break from traveling to take care of everything.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, because if you're never doing obedience, the dog is automatically going to think it's... It's coming wild. Yeah, for protection. So, yeah, I really like the classic European weekend. Is that not nothing what you miss sometimes here in the States?
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Which is also important to evaluate the day. And well, The good thing about to see all the faces at one day is a little bit dedication, but also just to see the dog sport how it really is and learn from each other.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
No, I'm not yet a dog handler. I have my own work, of course. And besides that, I put a lot of energy in the helper work.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
I think in Netherlands, the only way to get tickets back is to start an organization outside of FCI.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Are they FCI affiliated? I don't know.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Which is crazy, right? It's not illegal to have it. But for using it, yes, it's forbidden.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
No, not as exactly. I know a few people are that got in trouble or got in trouble. Yeah. And well, the official rules are, as I know, is that they take the dog from you and you have to pay a very high bill. What can goes up to 20,000 euros, something like that. So that are quite hard consequences.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, they are checking, they are checking.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, you're going to start with associations with leashes and signals way earlier as before. So for every behavior, you try to teach it already with a signal, so the picture is more clear afterwards. Well, the classic conditioning and the repeatings.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, in my personal opinion, if you teach an exercise correctly, there are no side effects for correctly using
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
prong collar or something or something yeah it doesn't matter what but right if you teach an exercise or behavior correctly and give it a lot enough repetition that a dog really understands what and has the solution has to do but takes the opportunity out of a situation for his own advantage
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
and you give a correction, the dog should go immediately in the correct behavior again, which you can reward again. So, well... And I didn't see any side effects of that kind of things.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
They did not doubt because they were on a television show, a hidden television. So there was one guy with the camera and, well, into one of the worst places, I think. And it was on national TV, so everybody saw it. Yeah. That's not supportive for the sport.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah. But when a ban is coming, it's always the question how much attention you must give it. So if a lot of people are going into protest, maybe you get the wrong attention. So it's a very difficult discussion.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
it could change back in in europe or it's not possible anymore no no i think also the politics have to work so hard to get it through um the ethical discussion that they probably get to change it back will be Well, not killing them, but that will be not good for their career.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, in the Netherlands, it depends what Germany is going to do.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
um and and also uh it seems to be on the right time right just just getting it's getting a discussion now in in germany as well so i think the the the what happened in austria i think um once it happens in one country
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, we believe that to create good helpers, to create the best helpers, you need to monitor them, to educate them, to evaluate them. We're busy to write stuff down from what do we want to see? How are we getting there and how can we keep that kind of level?
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, and probably, I don't know how many times it happens, but I also believe in collective education. So nice organized days out of the head organization with practicing. So not only theory, but also practicing on the field.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, and learning how a dog, how you teach a dog to do something instead of forcing a dog doing something. Or you must have a plan to train your dog.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
It's too easy to go on the field and say, well, we see what's going to happen.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah, the German Shepherd organization is the biggest, followed by the All Breeds. And then I don't know.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
We have a national championship with like nine dogs or something like that.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah. Well, the German champions are not much better, like 20-something, but well.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
keep do you follow how things are in there not so much not so much no not so much but that it's funny in belgium it's always the same persons are popping up again true true yeah i don't know man that's sad like it's sad
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
So the helpers here in the States...
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
First to the competition stuff, because you have to start somewhere and competition stuff that are They have certain exercises that are always the same. From there on, we're going to work backwards. What kind of exercises do we need to teach the helpers to make the movements better, the eye-hand coordination, the footwork, etc.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes, and if it started, probably it gets almost automatically through.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
mean the level of training the level of dogs comparing to home like what do you think it depends where you're going right depends where you're going um i wish um we have more uh clubs focused on um in getting better, better dog training, better methods, better understanding how to make things happen.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
at home or here at home yeah well it's the tradition probably too no yes yes yes so there's trainer and uh people are getting uh right pushed by a trainer and that the trainer is doing is instructing four or five people uh at the evening And that's it. So people are taking by the hand and told to do something instead of forced to think by themselves to create something by their own. And yeah.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Of course, there are some places that is doing very, very good. But the traditional thing, yeah.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
They pay a contribution. They can track and they can do obedience. They can use the facility. At the clubs, they have a helper. They can use the helper most of the times.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Do you still have room? We have tracking fields. Yeah, we have tracking fields. Not so much as in the past, but we still... Still... Okay.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, it's not that serious at our side, of course, but it's also very good to be on good terms with the farmers, yeah, and to stay in contact with them from, yeah, can we do this or that? And we have an event, maybe use your field and...
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
No, we pay rent for the facility.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
No, we have our own place. So we have our own place.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yeah. Form of renting it from from the local like the house.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Right. Yes. the city government.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, it was a little bit of the focus. But now we're refocusing back on that kind of stuff. So we selected now two helpers to do the Dutch championships. The guys who are not working from this point to that point, but because they are in a fight.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Well, it's not a very long story. My dad was in dog sport at an examination. They took me to the club just to watch how the exam was going. Just to watch, right? Yeah, just to watch. And after a while, at the end of the day, they put some girls in a suit and they say, Jan, you cannot stay behind now, so you have to do it as well. I said, okay.
Training Without Conflict Podcast
Episode Fifty-Eight: Jan Van Maren
Yes, of course. Because we need that. They took away the tickets, so what's left? So, and that must be a motivation for other guys to work Well, that need to be a motivation for the other ones to be there in the Dutch championships as well. Because how the selection in the Netherlands goes is there are one day a year that they all have to come together.